Father Abraham lyric disagreement

[Terabith]

My memory (and the memory of my daughter) is that Abraham had many sons. 

 

My husband claims it is SEVEN sons.  (I only remember Ishmael and Isaac, but maybe there are more that I don't remember?) 

 

Which of us is correct?

[eternalsummer]

seven

[eternalsummer]

I am not saying he had that many sons - I have no idea.  But that's how I remember the lyrics

[OneStepAtATime]

I sang it as "many sons".  I don't know about anyone else.

[Guest]

“...many sons. Many sons had Father Abraham. And I am one of them. And so are you...â€

 

Seven sons doesn’t make a shred of sense. Abraham was “father of many.†The covenant was that God would make his descendants as numerous as the stars.

[BigMamaBird]

I always sang it as many sons.

[CinV]

We always used many sons (southern baptist).

[ScoutTN]

"Many sons"

[Laurie]

Many sons  (according to the Wee Sing Bible Songs book)

[SquirrellyMama]

I've heard both. Although, I think when seven is used it is a mix up of the song I'm Henry the VIII, I am.

 

Kelly

Edited November 14, 2017 by SquirrellyMama

[BarbecueMom]

I sang it as many.

 

I grew up in an agnostic home and thought the song was about Abraham Lincoln.

[Seasider]

Many

 

While seven may be true, it is illogical if the following verses are "I am one of them, and so are you..."

 

One of God's promises to Abraham was that his descendants would be numerous, like the stars in the heavens and the grains of sand on the shore.

 

Many

Edited November 14, 2017 by Seasider

[EKS]

Seven is what I remember.

[Seasider]

“...many sons. Many sons had Father Abraham. And I am one of them. And so are you...â€

 

Seven sons doesn’t make a shred of sense. Abraham was “father of many.†The covenant was that God would make his descendants as numerous as the stars.

See, quill caught it too.

Edited November 14, 2017 by Seasider

[PeachyDoodle]

I've heard both, but we always sang "many," and "seven" makes no sense with the rest of the song, or with history.

Edited November 14, 2017 by PeachyDoodle

[JIN MOUSA]

Another vote for "many."

[DawnM]

many.  I have never heard seven.

[maize]

many is the way I learned it.

 

But it's the sort of thing where there are lots of variations, no particular "correct" one.

[EKS]

If you google it you’ll see that it is sometimes seven and sometimes many.

[Lilaclady]

Many

[Junie]

many

[Junie]

And my dh just informed me that he learned it as "seven". 

[maize]

My memory (and the memory of my daughter) is that Abraham had many sons.

 

My husband claims it is SEVEN sons. (I only remember Ishmael and Isaac, but maybe there are more that I don't remember?)

 

Which of us is correct?

Here's a seven version:

 

http://www.mamalisa.com/?t=es&p=4693

Edited November 14, 2017 by maize

[Terabith]

So, in the seven version, not only did he have seven sons, but they were mute (didn't laugh and they didn't cry) and they all had a weird movement disorder? 

 

Man, God sure does move in mysterious ways in selecting who will found many nations!

[Amber in SJ]

I learned it as seven sons, but that isn't the only difference.....

 

Father Abraham had seven sons, 

Seven sons had Father Abraham 

And they didn't laugh; they didn't cry

All they did was go like this.......

 

As a member of the LDS church this isn't a song we learned as kids.  I learned it from going to Bible camp with the neighbor kids in the summer.  I figured it was like the Hokey Pokey.  Also I never learned why Abraham's sons didn't laugh or cry :)

 

This is the version I learned.

 

 

 

[maize]

As for Abraham in the Bible, he has eight named sons with three different wives/concubines:

 

 

Hagar: Ishmael

Sarah: Isaac

Keturah: Zimran, Jokshan, Medan, Midian, Ishbak, Shuah

 

 

Honestly the seven in the song may just be because "seven sons" sounds nice and has meaning in folk tradition "seventh son of a seventh son etc."

 

I'm not one to parse too much into children's rhymes.

Edited November 14, 2017 by maize

[Arcadia]

The one I learned was the Boy Scout campfire version in my home country where we sing seven children. So probably not the biblical version.

 

“Father abraham had seven cildren.

Seven children had father Abraham.

Some of them were tall and some of them were short.

But none of them were bright.

Raise your

(right,left,stamp your right ,stamp your left, nood your head, stick out your tongue)†http://southerncrossscoutscheers.blogspot.com/2007/07/father-abraham-father-abraham-had-seven.html

[Jean in Newcastle]

Seven

 

 

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[happypamama]

I learned it as many also.

[scoutingmom]

I learned it as seven as well. And never cared if it made sense or not.

 

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[Seeking Squirrels]

I always sang it "many". What is so funny is that out of the blue I got this song in my head today during co-op. I have not sang this song in YEARS. We don't attend church so my kids have not heard or sang this song themselves. So odd to randomly think of this song today then come home to find this thread!

[Innisfree]

Seven.

[solascriptura]

Many.

[unsinkable]

Veiny Sons

 

He had Veiny Sons.

 

Father Abraham was a pioneer in the field of vascular disorders, inspired by his Veiny Sons.

[Heatherwith4]

I’ve only ever sung the many sons version. I need to teach this song to my kids.

[Mimm]

Many. :)

[mellifera33]

I learned seven. I never considered it a particularly religious song, though--about as religious as the Amsterdam song. It uses familiar Biblical characters, but doesn't really try to teach a historical or moral lesson, or serve as a worship song. 

[OhioMomof3]

I learned it as "many sons."

[SKL]

Many.

 

Actually I originally learned it as "many children," which seems to make the most sense.  :P

[Daria]

Here's how I learned it:

 

 

Father Abraham had seven sons.
Seven sons had father Abraham.
And he never laughed, and he never cried.
All he did was go like this:

1. with his left (arm)
2. with his right (arm)
3. with his left leg
4. with his right leg
5. and a wiggle
6. all around
7. sit down

No reference to being one of his sons.  

 

[bolt.]

In the study of "variant texts" the idea of 'what makes the most sense' actually weighs counter-intuitively on the side of the less sensible version being original (or at least prior to the more sensible version).

 

The reasoning is that when people notice what they believe to be an error in a "text" (ie 'it doesn't make a lick of sense') they quite reasonably feel good about making a change and propogating the new-and-improved version. Others hear and adopt the 'more sensible' version and therefore the older, more original variant fades from use.

 

It is presumed that no one would have motivation to change a sensible version into a nonsense version on purpose. Changes 'away from good sense' tend to be made as mistakes, not intentional changes. (In the days before 'darn you autocorrect!' -- which often makes errors into new and catastrophic sensible sentences.)

 

This suggests that while "many" makes more sense, "seven" was probably the original lyric.

[Debbi in Texas]

Another vote for many.

[Heatherwith4]

I learned seven. I never considered it a particularly religious song, though--about as religious as the Amsterdam song. It uses familiar Biblical characters, but doesn't really try to teach a historical or moral lesson, or serve as a worship song.

I am pretty sure my teachers growing up used it to help us kids get our wiggles out. I definitely didn’t learn any great biblical lessons from it.

[Guest]

In the study of "variant texts" the idea of 'what makes the most sense' actually weighs counter-intuitively on the side of the less sensible version being original (or at least prior to the more sensible version).

 

The reasoning is that when people notice what they believe to be an error in a "text" (ie 'it doesn't make a lick of sense') they quite reasonably feel good about making a change and propogating the new-and-improved version. Others hear and adopt the 'more sensible' version and therefore the older, more original variant fades from use.

 

It is presumed that no one would have motivation to change a sensible version into a nonsense version on purpose. Changes 'away from good sense' tend to be made as mistakes, not intentional changes. (In the days before 'darn you autocorrect!' -- which often makes errors into new and catastrophic sensible sentences.)

 

This suggests that while "many" makes more sense, "seven" was probably the original lyric.

That’s weird. And counter-intuitive.

[Guest]

I am pretty sure my teachers growing up used it to help us kids get our wiggles out. I definitely didn’t learn any great biblical lessons from it.

Yes, the main goal seemed to be to exhaust the kids so we would sit (a little bit) still for the felt-board Bible lesson.

[MamaBearTeacher]

I always heard "seven".  I never associated it with the biblical Abraham.  I thought the song was just about someone named Father Abraham.  Maybe the song was originally "several" sons and people heard "seven" and it changed.

[matrips]

Seven is how I first learned it. Heard the ‘many’, many years later.

[Word Nerd]

We sang, “Many sons.†This one.

 

[maize]

I've got the first line of the song running endlessly through my head now...both variants!

[GailV]

I learned it as "seven", which didn't make sense to me.

 

I started wondering if it was due to one of those "significance of the number XX in the Bible".  But mostly I just assumed the alliteration and double syllables were appealing.