disappointment and hard to parent kids

[ktgrok]

I've talked many times about my oldest. He's smart, qualified for the gifted program in public school, but has ADHD (that he refuses to use medication for) and Aspergers. He has a history of depression, but that isn't an issue right now. His father and paternal grandmother and her father and her brother all have depression/anxiety. It's a real fear. His father is bad enough that he had to drop out of college many times, lost jobs, etc because of mental illness. So I do always keep that in mind, and have to weigh mental health against academics on a regular basis. 

 

This year he has gotten very little done, school wise. It's his 10th grade year. He took two DE classes, one in the fall and one in the spring, and got B's in both. He admits he very easily could have had A's if he had put in more than the bare minimum effort, and actually kept track of things like due dates. He had several zeros. Sometimes because he forgot, sometimes because he just couldn't be bothered. 

 

He just finished his online Latin class (PREP Academy, with Magistra Jones...I highly recommend it!) and got a C. 79%. Again, looking over his grade report he has multiple zeros where homework wasn't done, quizzes skipped, etc. There was an opportunity for extra credit and he didn't do it. Again, had he put in the effort he could have gotten an A. Had he just bothered with the extra credit or turned everything in he could have at least had a B. 

 

He knows this. I'm not telling him, as if I say it he will blame me, not himself. I just asked for the grade report, and he blushed and said it wasn't good. I just said to please send it so I can record it on his transcript. He emailed it to me, and I didn't say a word. Which is hard, but for the best. 

 

Now he still needs to finish up English, Geometry, American History, and Biology. He is woefully behind. I've let him slide too much, in the interest of not having world war 3 on a constant basis. The yelling, the tantrums...I just can't expose the littles to that all the time. Next year all classes will be outsourced. He'll have 3 DE courses per semester, and the year long online Latin course. But we still need to salvage this year, and it's going to be awful. 

 

I got him up this morning to take the trash out (one of his few chores) and once he'd gotten some coffee I knocked on his door and told him I need him to start schoolwork in 1 hour. I set an alarm on my phone, so I don't get distracted and I enforce it. If I can just get him to even do 1 hour on, 1 hour off of schoolwork he can get through, I think. 

 

For those wondering what he does instead of school work, he talks online with his friends, plays some games, and admins a server (part time job). Cutting off electronics isn't a long term solution as that is where he finds his peers, where he socializes (he does have get togethers with other homeschooled teens in person, but at most once a week), where he finds some self esteem via his admin job, etc. Cutting him off entirely leads to depression, and I just can't go there. I can't risk him to mental illness or suiicide. But he can't just not do school work. So, hoping we can reach a compromise where he gets stuff done and we don't have epic battles constantly. 

 

otherwise, honestly, he's going to have to do an extra year or extra semester. And he started school a year late, so is already going to be old for his age. Also, he can't do DE if he fails, and he NEEDS to do DE. 

 

Anyway, if you pray, pray this goes as smoothly as possible and I remain totally unemotional. any sign of emotion will be used against me and fed off of by him. 

[OneStepAtATime]

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

 

 

[MysteryJen]

((Katie)) if it makes you feel any better, both of my teen boys who do not have ADHD or spectrum issues had 10th grade years like that. Bare minimum, missing assignments, just not wanting to do anything. And other boys I know had similar years in ps.

That didn't make me feel much better in the moment, but it did in the long run.

[Random]

:grouphug:

 

Katie,

 

You sound like an amazing mom.

 

Mental illness is the hardest thing.  It's awful.

 

I have a hard to parent kid that is a source of great disappointment in my life.  He is only 12, so the consequences of his actions aren't huge just yet.  Only recently  I discovered I'm not responsible for his actions. 

 

For what it's worth, I will pray for you, your son, and the whole family.  When you have an explosive child like that, it's so hard on everyone.

 

Best wishes to you.

 

:grouphug:

 

[Eliz]

Praying for you and for your son. :grouphug:

[Happy]

A big hug --  my oldest was like that at that age, along with a huge helping of anger. It wears you out.

 

A thought--instead of taking away stuff, can you add something not so fun to his to-do list?

 

When my oldest was a teen, we had a big bare lot of a yard. When I got sassy mouth or bad attitude from either son, they GOT to go dig in our thick, heavy, black clay soil. I'd lay out a bed shape for whoever to dig up.

 

The physical activity helped with the ADD and the prone to depression aspects. It was not a fun project, but once I finished the beds and planted them out, the boy could see something very pretty had come from his efforts. I got several nice planting beds over a several year period. :)

 

Maybe you can come up with something not too fun and still productive.

 

A reminder that you already know--let him fail when you can. It's better now while he is still in your home. I didn't do this nearly as well as I should have. Do better than me.

 

Another hug--hang in there!!!

 

[Mimm]

Sent you a PM Katie. :)

[Ravin]

My DD is younger, and not as smart (she's average on all the IQ tests we've had done), but also ADHD and somewhat oppositional and definitely explosive, with a big dose of anxiety on top. And I worry a lot about what's going to happen in high school.

 

It sounds like you're doing your best--and that he probably is, too. It takes more than raw intelligence to succeed at this stuff, it takes focus, interest, and internal drive--and if you don't have those things, it's just plain hard. 

[ktgrok]

Are you treating him as special needs, with a transition to a supervised adulthood at 21, or does he have an exit plan to independence?

 

I would encourage an exit plan mutually developed. He may do better with committing to a scheduled day and work checklist, as well as having enough exercise to cope with the Adhd.

 

He fully intends to go to a 4 year college, probably the one that is local to us. Of course, he needs actual classes and grades to do that. 

 

He does have a schedule day, and checklists. He ignores them. Get's behind. Tries to catch up. Gets overwhelmed. I shift things around, he does his work for a day, get's behind, etc. Or, sometimes, to switch it up, he gets ahead, then feels over confident and falls behind again. 

 

I can't make him exercise, but try to encourage it. He has a pull up bar in his room he hangs on a lot, and has amazing upper body strength. He had a gym membership but never wanted to go more than a few times. 

[ktgrok]

A big hug --  my oldest was like that at that age, along with a huge helping of anger. It wears you out.

 

A thought--instead of taking away stuff, can you add something not so fun to his to-do list?

 

When my oldest was a teen, we had a big bare lot of a yard. When I got sassy mouth or bad attitude from either son, they GOT to go dig in our thick, heavy, black clay soil. I'd lay out a bed shape for whoever to dig up.

 

The physical activity helped with the ADD and the prone to depression aspects. It was not a fun project, but once I finished the beds and planted them out, the boy could see something very pretty had come from his efforts. I got several nice planting beds over a several year period. :)

 

Maybe you can come up with something not too fun and still productive.

 

A reminder that you already know--let him fail when you can. It's better now while he is still in your home. I didn't do this nearly as well as I should have. Do better than me.

 

Another hug--hang in there!!!

 

Trying to make him do the chore would just turn into a new fight, about doing the chore. No way to make him do it, he's bigger than me. 

[ktgrok]

Thanks for the hugs and prayers. I need them!

 

I'm HOPING that all outsourced classes will help. We also considered private school, but I think the college environment suits him more, and having fewer classes at a time to keep track of definitely helps. 

[ktgrok]

Well, he didn't start until 11am (had to finish that game...sigh) but he's in bed, reading his history book. Giving me dirty looks, but doing it. I also required he keep his door open so I can pop in and out and make sure he's doing it. 

[TechWife]

:grouphug:  :grouphug:

 

I can very much relate to this. You can PM me anytime, I really do understand. 

[Miss Mousie]

I have no experience with ADHD etc. so I have no business commenting, really, but I did have some thoughts ... feel free to ignore.

 

I don't think you should be the one setting the alarm and nudging him.  But I do think he may need a bajillion reminders to set the alarm himself.

 

I might sit down with him and work out a plan both of you can live with for getting those last 4 subjects done.  How close is he to finishing them?  One option might be to block-schedule in a Dave Ramsey kind of way - do the one closest to finished first, then when that's done move to the next.  If he can commit to, say, 4 hours a day (broken up or straight through, however he wishes), maybe he can barrel through, and as each one wraps up he may retain motivation to knock out the others as well because the end is in sight.  Obviously not ideal, of course, and you'd probably want to insist on at least an hour a day of geometry rather than letting that lie fallow until its turn in the closest-to-finished queue.  But it seems to me that establishing a fairly stringent routine (that you both can live with) may be the most important factor.  [ETA:  just read your follow-up post about having a schedule.  I think the open-door policy will be a good one - but you will definitely have to check up on him.]

 

I think it may be important too to impress on him very clearly the down-the-road consequence of an extra semester or year if he won't get these things done now.

 

How is his diet and what are his eating and sleeping and energy patterns like?

Edited May 24, 2016 by Miss Mousie

[Anne in CA]

Awe, you are just in a tough spot. Not a lot to do about it other than what you are doing. I really get that you can't subject the younger children to a constant war. My oldest threw our house into chaos whenever she was unhappy because she wanted all of us to be unhappy too. It took me years to learn to just let her be unhappy and not let her have that kind of control.

 

My oldest (who was my step dd but lived with us and I love her as my own child) has lots of issues, and there was mental illness in her mother's family. She caused our family a lot of turmoil over the years, but at 27 she is FINALLY starting to take baby steps to take care of herself. I don't know if she will ever be mature enough for a family of her own. She desperately wants one but doesn't understand that she is several levels of maturity away from that. She just thinks that she can't find a good guy. Well, good guys don't date people who run up student debt, don't finish college, don't work more than 30 hours a week and can't pay their bills much less their debt. She is the queen of going to do everything next week. I am stunned that she has managed to lose more than 50 pounds this year, because she was always going on a diet next month. Also, she is starting to work on her art regularly instead of just saying she is an artist and can't be tied down to normal expectations that people have. Between those two things I think there is a lot of hope.

[AK_Mom4]

Hugs, Katie.... That's tough.

DS20 was like that - even to the explosions and resistance and online stuff and looming anxiety and depression on the horizon - still is.  He did work better when I would sit and "keep him company" while he worked.  I work from home, so I would bring my laptop and sit at the kitchen table with him.  I know that's tough when you have the little ones running around - I was fortunate that DD was a pretty independent worker.  DS needed to feel that I was totally in there with him in order to keep going - I didn't have to do the work with him, just always be right there and commiserate and let him vent.

 

Being there in the trenches, keeping him company, was the only thing that seemed to help motivate him to keep working some days.  I will say that by his senior year, things were much better and he continues to improve.  He still has to really stay on top of things because if he gets behind, he gets overwhelmed and goes into the Death Spiral of Doom.  

 

Again - hugs - because these are the kids that age us and are wonderful and amazing and push us to the limits of our parenting abilities.

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

:grouphug:  Without saying too much, I strongly suspect that that is what some of the high school years around here will look like. I'm not looking forward to it :( 

 

I'm sorry things are so hard right now. 

[Laura Corin]

It must be incredibly frustrating.  However, at school he would have classes to go to, an authority figure telling him to get on with his work in class, positive peer pressure (because everyone in the class would be doing the same thing), and sanctions if he didn't work.  It sounds as if he is not ready to be a lot more organised and self-motivated than his peers who are in school.

 

I would sit down with him and talk about his goals and dreams.  Then try to get his agreement to a strict timetable (that you police) with work done in a public area where you can see it. 

[SKL]

Good luck.  It does sound like outsourcing will help.

 

Could you schedule a time when the littles are not home, and have a private conversation with him about how he can meet his goal of passing 10th grade?  If you could get his buy-in and just support his plan, maybe that would be a good short-term solution.

[maize]

Does he have to graduate from high school? Could he dual enroll and then officially enroll without a high school transcript? If he can get at least an associates under his belt I don't think not graduating from high school will matter.

[ktgrok]

Good luck.  It does sound like outsourcing will help.

 

Could you schedule a time when the littles are not home, and have a private conversation with him about how he can meet his goal of passing 10th grade?  If you could get his buy-in and just support his plan, maybe that would be a good short-term solution.

 

We've done that. Multiple times. But he doesn't follow through, and forcing him to do it results in the kind of world war that I can't have going on in my home on a daily basis. 

 

Actually, last time he rolled his eyes and said "you trying to make me buy into this isn't going to make a difference". Sigh. Like I said, he's smart. 

[J-rap]

What are things he is good at?  Can you structure the remainder of what he needs around that?

 

I had pretty high and thorough expectations of my first three, but my number four was very different.  She was very bright.  She barely had to put in effort and did really well.  But around age 16 she developed both chronic pain and a complete impatience with school.  In her case, I realized that the best thing I could do for her was to get her graduated as easily and quickly as possible.  I purposely chose classes that did not set her up for failure.  I chose mostly independent because she liked that best, I eliminated all the busy work...  In short, I tailored her program to suit her and her interests and set her up to do well as easily and quickly as possible.  If there was ever a benefit of the doubt on a grade, I gave her the better one.  Because I knew she could do it, and I knew her life was not easy (she had 24-hour/day migraines).

 

In the end, she graduated with the bare minimum of classes but decent grades, and then it was time to really help her find what she loved to do and what she could do in the midst of her chronic pain.  That was much more fun than getting her through high school!  We kept up a good relationship throughout.  

 

She is now taking off several years to explore and try out different kinds of jobs and pursue her great love, music.  She is relaxed and happy, though still dealing with chronic pain.  She has also been talking about going on to college eventually, and I know that her curriculum and grades are good enough to get her in somewhere.

 

ETA:  In my dd's case, I know it would not have worked to hold her more accountable, or offer dire consequences.  We just needed to work together to get her through it as easily as possible.

Edited May 24, 2016 by J-rap

[Carrie12345]

This is very much like my oldest ASD kid, and not unlike my ADD self.  Except I was never hs'ed!

 

I had to let go with ds.  We (more specifically, he) needed academics to be separate from parenting.  He chose ps for 9th and 10th, and chose community college instead of 11th and 12th.  He could still do better than how he's doing in some aspects of his academics.  Getting assignments in on time is still an issue for him.  He gets Bs and Cs in the classes that aren't interest driven.  

 

Sure, I know he understands the material at A+ level, and it bugs me that that isn't reflected, but I'm finally accepting (a work in progress!) that it's better to have a good relationship with a mixed-grade child than a crummy one with a broken down A student.  More accurately, a crummy relationship with a maybe still not A student, unless maybe I tied his man sized hands to mine and forced them to work.

 

It is hard.  I still struggle.  Because I'm not perfect at this.  I can't ask him to be, either.

Edited May 24, 2016 by Carrie12345

[TechWife]

I know people who are offering advice have good intentions, I really do. On behalf of Katie, though (and maybe myself), I'd like to mention that the combination of AS, anxiety and depression is extremely difficult. Typical motivating techniques don't work (they really don't) and the consequences of trying them can be very difficult to endure for the entire family. Please honor Katie's request and pray that today and the rest of the summer go smoothly. 

 

ETA: There really are no "easy" answers. 

 

:grouphug:  :grouphug:

Edited May 24, 2016 by TechWife

[Matryoshka]

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

 

This sounds so much like my youngest.  She is 15.  I cannot make her do anything.  If I told her to go do a chore or, well, anything else, because of attitude she'd just say 'no'.  She's also bigger than me.  My other two think she gets away with way too much, but it is so tiring.  Everything.is.a.battle.  If you say up, she says down.  Even if down is shooting herself in the foot.  Any kind of punishment backfires; she just retrenches.  The only thing that can work sometimes is carrots, but it's hard (and also exhausting) to constantly be finding carrots that work.  She also spends tons of time talking to friends online, playing games, drawing (both computer and pencil).  Yes, taking away electronics doesn't work because much of her work has to be done there.

 

Everything will be outsourced next year.  I'm a bit terrified, but she does do better with someone else other than me setting the schedule.  She started off the year in ps high school, but that only lasted a few months, so she came home and started some DE classes and whatever else I could cobble together in the spring.  She puts in the absolute minimum effort, but at least she has usually passed in all her homework.  She does want to do well, but does not seem to connect this at all with putting in effort (in spite of the zillions of times I've pointed it out).

 

Part of the problem is that she's smart enough that she can do 'okay' without putting in any effort.  She will probably get a B+ in Geometry.  She skipped the quizzes in the last few classes, which could have brought it up.  She's managing to get an A so far in Algebra 2, but she's not watching most of the videos, taking notes, or doing any of the practice problems, just what she has to turn in.  I'm a bit worried about it sticking (she picks up concepts really quickly but does need repetition), or what happens when she gets to stuff that's harder.  She powered through 2 semesters worth of German at the CC with an A in both, but she did not one bit of work outside class.  The bar was really low, and she'd had ten years of German instruction, so it was really all review.  She'll need those A's, though, because her other DE class (zoology) she'll be lucky to have a C+.  You could bring notes in to the tests - while she did retype notes before the test, that's all she did, so about an hour or prep.  No studying, no reviewing the notes once she typed them, no re-reading the homework questions (where the prof confirmed many test questions came from)... her tests were all in the 70's, and her only hope is that she passed in all the homework and labs.

 

She'll be finishing up Algebra 2 and History over the summer (History was with me and I'm going to try to stitch together a credit from what she did in ps and the incredibly bare minimum she did after she came home - she said she'd write a paper for me this summer... we'll see...), and taking a DE Drawing class this summer too (hopefully an easy A???  She likes to draw).  I can't get her to read anything at.all.  I'm going to try to get her to listen to books with me over the summer and the fall, and then start DE English in the spring.

 

She has a crazy idea she can actually graduate early, which if she can manage 3-4 DE classes/semester from here on out, and one in the summer, she might be able to - just has to keep her grades up, which is iffy.  One thing that could help you, if he can keep his DE grades up, is the whole one semester CC = one year high school credit.  

 

I'm having her neruopsych tested again this spring.  Last time the biggest flags were depression (expressed as explosiveness) and processing speed issues - she's been saying she gets anxious with timed tests, so I'm going to see if maybe she could get accommodations for that.

Edited May 24, 2016 by Matryoshka

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

I am sorry if I am being redundant or not helpful. How bad is his aspergers'? I ask since some kids like mine have very mild and then I have seen some who are much worse off:( Also, the depression, was it mild? I am asking since I see you are fearful he may end up worse due to family history and I am not sure you should be pessimistic because of family history. Obviously, things like this can run in families but I don't think this means we are definitely going to have the same problems.

 

Have you and him ever gone to counseling for help in dealing with and ending his tantrums, etc? Has he ever had ABA therapy? I am asking since I would do everything in my power to get his behavior in check. Now, obviously, some children on the sprectrum will not be able to do this, but I have heard that things like ABA can significantly improve things. I am sorry if I am being unhelpful or redundant:(

 

Next, I am inclined to think he should not be spending so much time online nor in his room alone. I honestly think that can exacerbate behaviors as it does with my kid. The work I can see but the games and socializing online I would be wary of too much time with that. Is there any way to get him involved in activities with his peers such as acting, outside classes, etc?

 

Again, my 2 cents is not nearly as important as a professionals which I think you need.  :grouphug:

Edited May 24, 2016 by NoPlaceLikeHome

[ktgrok]

He went to a few sessions of counseling and refused more. He won't talk. Group therapy for social skills was worse, as the kids had worse skills than he did and it really wasn't helping. The Aspergers is mild, the depression was moderate. His depression manifests as hopelessness and anger. 

 

He also has a STRONG desire to be in control, to not feel controlled by others. And he "hears" things wrong. His father did the same thing. So when I said he was incredibly behind in his history work he heard, "You haven't done any history work". Then he argues with me, saying that he has done SOME, and that if I'm going to say he isn't doing ANY he might as well not bother. That is a verbatim conversation with him, from yesterday. I reiterated that I said he was behind, not that he hadn't done any, but it doesn't matter. How much is him really hearing things more negatively, and how much is searching for an argument, I don't know. 

[hornblower]

  He did work better when I would sit and "keep him company" while he worked.  I work from home, so I would bring my laptop and sit at the kitchen table with him.  I know that's tough when you have the little ones running around - I was fortunate that DD was a pretty independent worker.  DS needed to feel that I was totally in there with him in order to keep going - I didn't have to do the work with him, just always be right there and commiserate and let him vent.

 

Being there in the trenches, keeping him company, was the only thing that seemed to help motivate him to keep working some days

This was & is my experience with both of mine. 

 

Personally I also believe that it's important to separate out things about their behaviors and patterns which are fixable & work on those. Many of these things end up feeling like character / personality / chemical / neurological and sometimes feel like they're not changeable. But I think they are  eta - at least partly. 

 

We have dx here & I get that many of the things get written down as permanent conditions but I also believe they ARE fixable - eta  to an extent :)   And I think part of it being late bloomers. It just took them extra time to sort themselves out.  

 

I had to do a fair bit of reading and learning about executive function and figure out how to assist with all that.  It's the scaffolding that people talk about. 

 

And in our experience, it has required much hands on support, prodding, helping, & being present for a lot longer than what society often thinks is normal.  We just have to ignore all that and parent the kids we have & that might need to look a lot more different than what the 'norm' is. 

Edited May 24, 2016 by hornblower

[NorthwestMom]

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

 

I think you are such a great mom. I really do.

 

 

 

 

otherwise, honestly, he's going to have to do an extra year or extra semester. And he started school a year late, so is already going to be old for his age.

 

Anyway, if you pray, pray this goes as smoothly as possible and I remain totally unemotional. any sign of emotion will be used against me and fed off of by him. 

 

Remember - this doesn't matter. At all. Lots of kids are not on the artificially-imposed timetable of done-in-four-years, whether they are home-schooled/public-schooled/alternatively-schooled, whatever. Do what you need to do to preserve relationships and sanity of all involved, while moving forward at whatever pace. If he is a semester or a year late, it really doesn't matter. He should have, what, 60-80 adult years after he finishes high school? Plenty of time for the next steps in his life. An extra 6-12 months of classes is nothing. Try not to worry about this part.

 

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:
 

[ktgrok]

The problem is he won't let me help him. I'd love to help him make schedules, help him stick to them, etc. But he won't do it with me, or let me help him.

[theelfqueen]

I just wanna hug you and love you and take you out for coffee.

 

Teenagers are hard. My middle one has a lot in common with your oldest and it's ROUGH... and exhausting.

 

Prayers.

 

Edited May 24, 2016 by theelfqueen

[canadianmomtofour]

I feel for you and I don't have any answers. I have a 16yo in grade 10 with HFA, severe anxiety, and type 1 diabetes. I have nothing to suggest for you, as I know you've tried everything! My son is exactly as you describe yours, and for him, it all stems from anxiety. He has an overwhelming fear of growing up and facing adult expectations.

 

I have had to back off. It goes against everything in me to do so, but anxiety over school work resulted in suicidal thoughts early on in the school year. He has only done two courses this year, (math & English), and it has been a struggle to even get him to do that! Next year will likely be the same, and high school will probably take 5-6 years to complete.

 

It is unbelievably difficult to watch. He is so smart. I mean really intelligent in his areas of strength. However, I know that he can't handle the stress of college, he probably won't ever be able to work full-time, and I need to re-align my expectations with his capabilities. This has been really hard for me because of the huge discrepancy between his intelligence and his functioning.

 

Anyway, like I said, I have no suggestions; only commiseration. I just wanted you to know that you're not alone. Remember to take care of yourself. I always forget that one!

[Pawz4me]

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

 

Sympathy.  Youngest DS has anxiety and is probably on the spectrum (per his current psychiatrist--he's skirted around a diagnosis since he was a toddler, but she definitely thinks he is and I totally agree).  Thankfully he's mostly very easy going and responds well to suggestions.  But we just can't get him to care about what he doesn't care about.  His IQ has never been formally tested but I'm sure he's at least well above average if not gifted.  But good enough is good enough.  He scored 28 on the ACT w/o doing one second of prep but has no desire to try to improve his score.  Sigh.

 

I think his early college setting has been fabulous for him, especially this past year where he was taking all CC classes.  He really seems to enjoy the atmosphere even when he's coasting along in "good enough is good enough" mode.  He did need medication for his anxiety starting last summer.  I don't know if being in classes were what triggered that or if he would have needed medication even if we had continued homeschooling.  I tend to think the latter, but I don't know for sure.  The medication has been good for him.

 

So no real advice.  Just another one feeling her way along sort of the same path.

[katilac]

Please honor Katie's request and pray that today and the rest of the summer go smoothly. 

 

ETA: There really are no "easy" answers. 

 

:grouphug:  :grouphug:

 

:confused1:     She didn't request that no one offer advice. And I don't think anyone thinks there are "easy" answers, they are just sharing ideas. 

 

I'm sure that most of them are also sending prayers, hugs, good thoughts, and positive vibes! 

[Carrie12345]

So when I said he was incredibly behind in his history work he heard, "You haven't done any history work". Then he argues with me, saying that he has done SOME, and that if I'm going to say he isn't doing ANY he might as well not bother. That is a verbatim conversation with him, from yesterday. I reiterated that I said he was behind, not that he hadn't done any, but it doesn't matter. How much is him really hearing things more negatively, and how much is searching for an argument, I don't know. 

 

I'm familiar with this on both sides of the fence, and I do believe it's mostly (not always entirely) REALLY hearing things negatively.  I got good test scores, I was a community volunteer, I was a good employee, I was a sought after babysitter.  But all I ever heard was that I was lazy.  Not meeting my potential.  Unmotivated. Disorganized. All because I was getting passing, but not fabulous grades.  Nobody really talked about my awesomeness because they were so focused on telling me to be better.

 

Even WITH that experience, it's taken me years to start using that perspective in my parenting.

[Truscifi]

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

 

That sounds incredibly frustrating.

[ktgrok]

He is looking to engage you and find a way for you to recognize that he has started down the path to success. Think like a coach and respond with recognition, and ask him if he needs any help in the way of study skills, etc to get up to the speed he wants to work at to meet his goal. Help does not consist of doing things like make schedules for him. He is capable and can do that himself. Perhaps he could join a study group next year for his DE classes...that would be a group to travel with plus possibly some social.

 

Oh, I've tried just to let him take the lead, and offer help. Offered to shop for a planner, buy an online version, whatever. I purchased an extra desk for him, at his request, so he could have a space for school away from the gaming desk. I paid for extra bookcases to organize things, at his request. They are still empty. I've had him work through a study skills program, a few years ago (Victus Study Skills ), I've purchased calendars, discussed alarms, apps, etc. He blows it all off. If I suggest or offer rewards for work completed he says "I can't be bribed!" and then refuses to do the work on some warped principal of not being controlled. 

 

What works the best, although not particularly well, is to just quietly say "thanks" when he gets something done, be that a chore or schoolwork. When he got a B at the college I said I was proud he could get a B in a college class, and nothing more. At which point he admitted that he could have done better. 

 

He does do a bit better in outside classes due to some peer competition, but as I said, he still has trouble keeping track, or more, caring to do the work. He did very little homework for Latin, not because he forgot, but because he doesn't like to do it. He would put it off, put it off, and then it was class time and no time left to put it off. I get it. I procrastinate too. But at some point I care enough to get it done. 

 

As for what he likes, both his DE classes were in technology, his chosen field of interest. He liked the classes, but not the homework. 

 

He wants to go to university, so needs things like Biology, History, etc. 

[hornblower]

The problem is he won't let me help him. I'd love to help him make schedules, help him stick to them, etc. But he won't do it with me, or let me help him.

 

 

oh that's a  much tougher thing then.   :grouphug:

[katilac]

If he can take 3 DE classes per semester for the next two years, I would honestly be tempted to do that and call it a day. There's only so much you can control. 

 

15 DE classes total is 20-30 high school credits. He has at least a few regular high school credits, so he will have enough. He can choose to finish up the biology he already started, or he can choose to take a one semester course through DE, and so on. Make a summary page of how much work remains in this year's classes, and update it once a week or so. Send it to him via email, no commentary. 

 

Good thoughts and good luck! 

[Kassia]

I'm sorry, too.  I have a son on the spectrum who can be very difficult and it's emotionally draining to deal with him sometimes.  I don't know how much is under his control and I try to keep that in mind.  Thinking of you and hoping things get better.

 

Erica

[ktgrok]

Thanks all. I went back after his break and knocked, telling him it was time to get back to school work please. No real response (he said sure, but didn't stop what he was doing.) I left, hoping he'd finish up and get back to school work, but also had ordered grocery delivery and included some mountain dew (his favorite, but not something he gets on a regular basis). So that got delivered so I went and knocked again and told him I had Mountain Dew in the kitchen if he wants it. About 5 minutes later he came out to where I was on the patio and said thanks for the soda (huge!) and then told me he'd figured it out and if he does 8 more lessons of reading today he will have finished the first half of the history course. Then he'll go back and answer the questions for each lesson. So he is taking some control. I just said "Ok, good" and went back to cleaning the pool. At which point we found a frog, rinsed it off to hope the chlorine doesn't kill it, and he released it outside. Then he came back in. I'm about to check and make sure he's working. 

[Anne in CA]

LOL, this sounds like me with my oldest when she was this age. She almost didn't graduate because she didn't want any help, but she needed to turn is three essays for Honors English. She got them done on her time, at the last minute and I had finally learned to stay out of it, so I was just like you. Here's some treats, it's your deal.

[Valley Girl]

I don't have any advice...just lots and lots of sympathy. It is incredibly hard and frustrating when they just. don't. care. You can have all the heart-to-heart talks you want about consequences and goals. The kid may even agree to a plan. But follow through? Forget it. You feel damned if you do and damned if you don't. And then the kid turns around and surprises you. And you think "What just happened?" and try to figure out what went right so you can duplicate it. Only it isn't that easy. I get it. It's emotionally exhausting. I hope the rest of your day goes well, Katie.

[ktgrok]

So, after saying he would get that stuff done, and thanking me, and being sweet, he's not actually doing it. And getting snippy when I reminded him to get to work. It was nice while it lasted. 

 

(this is typical. He feels so accomplished getting 1 hour done that he then slacks on doing any more)

[chiguirre]

Just throwing this out, do you think he'd prefer to study for the American History CLEP? It's divided into two halves so he could study for the Part 1 test now if he's half way through his book. The test is 1.5 hours, computerized and multiple choice. Lots of community colleges and state universities accept these for credit for the lower division required classes so he's likely to get credit for a passing score. This might be more motivating than slogging through his high school text answering comprehension questions.

 

If this works, there are also credit by exam options for high school biology and geometry that he might prefer.

 

The major advantage is that you don't have to be the enforcer of quality standards. He passes or he doesn't, but it's not up to you.

 

:grouphug:

 

(I'm really glad Geezle likes high school...really, really glad.)

[The Girls' Mom]

((Katie))  Aside from major tantrums/anger, my oldest was very much like this throughout high school.  Every year my husband had to talk me out of putting her back into public school.  I let her slide through so many subjects because fighting about it wasn't accomplishing anything but stress and depression.  Shifting to outside classes, then full DE classes her senior year helped SO much.  She's doing worlds better in college.  

 

I'll be honest...she has several grades on her transcript for classes that never got finished.  She learned enough to move on to the next thing, or handle herself in a college level class.  She never finished Algebra II.  (I'm not sure we even got through half the book).  But she knew enough math to make it through Statistics at college.  (then had a party because she never had to math again) Most of our smaller "required" courses were handled through lots of conversations or Crash Course videos. (health, econ, etc.)  She's doing fine now in college classes.  Our slacking didn't hurt her.  She picked up enough on her own to make it.  

[freesia]

If he can take 3 DE classes per semester for the next two years, I would honestly be tempted to do that and call it a day. There's only so much you can control. 

 

15 DE classes total is 20-30 high school credits. He has at least a few regular high school credits, so he will have enough. He can choose to finish up the biology he already started, or he can choose to take a one semester course through DE, and so on. Make a summary page of how much work remains in this year's classes, and update it once a week or so. Send it to him via email, no commentary. 

 

Good thoughts and good luck!

I agree. I made a summary for my ds on Monday ( a few of his online classes are done). I am zipping my mouth about his pace right now.

 

But I am so sorry about your struggles. Have you gone to counselling? It might help you to have someone to vent to (so you can stay calm and separate from him) and also it may give you more techniques to use with him. For me (and I freely admit that my situation even at its worst last year is no on the level of yours) part of the key is letting him feel the emotions of his failures and not taking it on myself. If I feel it--he doesn't. And I have a REALLY hard time keeping myself seperate. He is so smart and if he'd just LISTEN to me, he'd do so well and things would go so much smoother.

 

I will pray for you.

[ktgrok]

He is so smart and if he'd just LISTEN to me, he'd do so well and things would go so much smoother.

 

I will pray for you.

 

So true!!!

 

Some kids, you can warn them of the consequence, and they learn from your advice/teaching. 

 

Other kids have to learn the hard way, every time. 

 

And other kids take the hard way, face the consequences, and still don't learn, at least not until they either mature or face the same consequences over and over.

 

My son is in that last category. 

[ondreeuh]

Well, he didn't start until 11am (had to finish that game...sigh) but he's in bed, reading his history book. Giving me dirty looks, but doing it. I also required he keep his door open so I can pop in and out and make sure he's doing it. 

 

I have a very ADD daughter who was AWFUL about staying on task. I mean, all of her potential just went in the toilet when she was responsible for keeping herself on task. I had her do her work in my line of sight as much as possible, was able to cut off internet to her computer during certain hours, and had to check work constantly. It was hard, because I felt like she SHOULD be able to do sooooooo much more than she was actually doing, and I had to keep working with the kid I had and not the kid she should be. It's still hard!

 

Can you bring him back to the kitchen table for his work? Some kids can't handle doing work in their bedrooms because that is their fun, relaxing place. Or maybe give him a desk in your bedroom, or a table on the back porch, basically something away from the distractions of his bedroom. If he needs to type, let him do it on a laptop without internet. When my dd had to use internet, I made her use a profile that was bare - no bookmarks except her school ones. If I had to do it over again I would get a school laptop with parental controls that only allowed certain websites. Look at getting a "pomodoro" app on your phone and using that to schedule breaks. It's something I recently discovered and it is AWESOME. You set your intervals for work and breaks, so you set it for 45 minutes of work and then a 15 minute break, with a longer 30 minute break after 3 intervals (or whatever you choose).

[freesia]

So true!!!

 

Some kids, you can warn them of the consequence, and they learn from your advice/teaching. 

 

Other kids have to learn the hard way, every time. 

 

And other kids take the hard way, face the consequences, and still don't learn, at least not until they either mature or face the same consequences over and over.

 

My son is in that last category.

:-(