Is calling CPS the right move here?

[muttmomma]

First thing is first. I never thought I would even consider calling cps on anyone I know, but this discussion has gone on for years and keeps getting worse.

 

Background: a boy is born to a young mother five years ago. This mother has a history of mental illness, low IQ and non existent impulse control. She leaves her boyfriend(my brother who is a total deadbeat anyways) and gets together with a newly released ex-con.

 

Just over a year later, she and expect-con have a baby girl.

 

During the next two years, that blow through a life insurance policy with drugs and poor spending.

 

Fast forward to today. She and ex-con live in filth(in a house that is due to be formed in any day now), they have been ordered to clean out the house twice before.

Both have jobs, but never any food.

The is no heat in the house other than a fire place.

The children don't get bathed. Whenever they come over, they and their clothing are visibly dirty, and are often wearing clothes that don't fit. Mother has confessed that she never washes clothes or cleans.

The parents are at each others throats constantly. Screaming and whatnot.

 

Girl, age four, picks at her face with anxiety. Boy describes homelife as eating only pb&j, sleeping in the cold, "daddy is gonna beat up mommy", sister cries all the time because of the fighting(he says he is too big to be scared).

Recently, ex-con abandoned mom and kids at get place of work. In flurry of suport, the few people that will actually take her calls try to help her get into a women's program, get get car fixed etc.

 

She refuses to get any help where she had to give up anything and goes back to guy. One week later, the fighting is intense.

 

She spent all of her money on ex-con, and is feeling desperate.

 

Summary of concerns

 

Extra-con doesn't care for our interact much with children.

 

Mother clings to them as emotional suport for herself.

 

Suspected drug use in the home(never have good or money, erratic behavior. Enamel rottef off teeth of mom)

 

Children are rarely bathed or clean

 

Rarely have clean or appropriate clothing

 

House is filthy. Gross.

 

Nutritionally neglected (boy is dose to see a nutritionist but hadn't)

 

Boy has had body oder(even when clean) and very bad breath. Mom won't take him to Dr for it. She is terrified cps will be called if they dig into their life at all.

 

Constant screaming in the home.

 

No heat at home, little food at home.

 

There is more to the story but this has gotten so long.

 

I am torn on what to do. She don't take any sound advice and only wants money. We have the boy he got the weekend.

[SKL]

Wow, so difficult.  You and others have tried with her for years.  It sounds like a hopeless case.  I feel so bad for those kids.

 

It will be bad for the kids no matter what you do, but it sounds like their basic needs are not being met, and they need to be.  :(

[Sdel]

Yes.

 

Stefanie

[East Coast Sue]

I would call.  I can't imagine how those poor children survive even a day in that situation.

[Reefgazer]

I'm always hesitant to call CPS, but if you are *sure* of what you claim, then yes, I would call CPS.  I would not call if what you list are just suspicions, however.

First thing is first. I never thought I would even consider calling cps on anyone I know, but this discussion has gone on for years and keeps getting worse.

Background: a boy is born to a young mother five years ago. This mother has a history of mental illness, low IQ and non existent impulse control. She leaves her boyfriend(my brother who is a total deadbeat anyways) and gets together with a newly released ex-con.

Just over a year later, she and expect-con have a baby girl.

During the next two years, that blow through a life insurance policy with drugs and poor spending.

Fast forward to today. She and ex-con live in filth(in a house that is due to be formed in any day now), they have been ordered to clean out the house twice before.
Both have jobs, but never any food.
The is no heat in the house other than a fire place.
The children don't get bathed. Whenever they come over, they and their clothing are visibly dirty, and are often wearing clothes that don't fit. Mother has confessed that she never washes clothes or cleans.
The parents are at each others throats constantly. Screaming and whatnot.

Girl, age four, picks at her face with anxiety. Boy describes homelife as eating only pb&j, sleeping in the cold, "daddy is gonna beat up mommy", sister cries all the time because of the fighting(he says he is too big to be scared).
Recently, ex-con abandoned mom and kids at get place of work. In flurry of suport, the few people that will actually take her calls try to help her get into a women's program, get get car fixed etc.

She refuses to get any help where she had to give up anything and goes back to guy. One week later, the fighting is intense.

She spent all of her money on ex-con, and is feeling desperate.

Summary of concerns

Extra-con doesn't care for our interact much with children.

Mother clings to them as emotional suport for herself.

Suspected drug use in the home(never have good or money, erratic behavior. Enamel rottef off teeth of mom)

Children are rarely bathed or clean

Rarely have clean or appropriate clothing

House is filthy. Gross.

Nutritionally neglected (boy is dose to see a nutritionist but hadn't)

Boy has had body oder(even when clean) and very bad breath. Mom won't take him to Dr for it. She is terrified cps will be called if they dig into their life at all.

Constant screaming in the home.

No heat at home, little food at home.

There is more to the story but this has gotten so long.

I am torn on what to do. She don't take any sound advice and only wants money. We have the boy he got the weekend.

 

[Forget-Me-Not]

Yes. Yes. Yes.

[Anne in CA]

I feel very bad for the kids, but  I don't know what can be done. This doesn't sound so different from dh's ex and her descent into drug use and bad men, and we got custody of the oldest, but her other children are all in a bad way. None of them turned out well, but only two are criminals. I don't think CPS will do much if you call.

 

There is a tragic case here where a woman and her "lover" tormented two children to death and almost killed another one. There had been MANY complaints to CPS but none were found to be valid, CPS did nothing, and now two children are dead and one is recovering from severe abuse.

[Wabi Sabi]

If this is accurate, do you really even have to ask? You already know what needs to be done. Yes, call!

[maize]

I'm always hesitant to call CPS, but if you are *sure* of what you claim, then yes, I would call CPS. I would not call if what you list are just suspicions, however.

I agree. If these are known facts, call. That is no life for kids.

[NicksMama-Zack's Mama Too]

Yes.

[ladyinthegarden]

If they are already afraid of CPS they know they are wrong! Maybe it will be the kick in the pants this lady needs to finally take care of the kids, home, and make better life choices.

[rebcoola]

Yes call.

[Aiden]

I'd call.

[Haiku]

What else would have to be happening in these children's lives to make it bad enough to call if this isn't bad enough already?

[Heatherwith4]

I have *never* called CPS before, but yes you need to call. ASAP.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Neglect and abuse are the two things that CPS is supposed to handle.  Both are what you described.  Call. 

[Ethel Mertz]

I am a mandated reporter. You should absolutely call as soon as possible.

[Word Nerd]

Call.

[Laurie4b]

I am not one to hastily advise calling CPS, but yes, I think this is warranted. In an ideal world, CPS would investigate and offer services rather than remove the children from the home. If they decide to remove the children from the home, the first step is to try to place with family. In this case, you or any other family members would only be considered for placement if you call. If a family member knows about abuse/neglect and doesn't act on it, in most places, their lack of action will disqualify them from being a placement option.

 

You can, however, call anonymously. Keep track of the date and time you call and who you spoke to so that if you later wanted placement, you could document that it was you who called. 

[Pamela H in Texas]

Yes, call.  

Most likely CPS will try to compel them to comply with getting things in order.  If they are capable and willing, then the children will benefit by being with parents doing the right thing.  If they are not capable or willing, the children will have a chance to heal and experience a more appropriate childhood. 

Either way, the children lose and win.  There is no way around it.  But they deserve the chance.

[marbel]

Adding my voice to say yes, call.

 

I'm a mandated reporter and in my state,the requirement to call is a reasonable cause to suspect abuse and/or neglect.   If I saw just part of what you report, I'd have to call.

[justasque]

Call.  Every time you see things that concern you.  And find out what you need to do to be eligible to do kinship fostering of the kids, should it come to that.  And do whatever you can to have the kids under your care, as much as possible, as you are doing now.  CPS can't act without information.  You are their eyes and ears.  But don't just rely on them to step in - keep doing whatever you can for the kids.

[muttmomma]

Uuuuggghhh. I know. I think I need offers to confirm my gut.

 

The only thing I am not sure about is the drugs. They used to use a lot, but I don't know if they are currently. It is only a suspicion.

 

Whew. I hate this. I'll call.

 

Does anyone know how long it takes for them to respond to this type of call. The big is currently at our house for the next three days of so. I wonder if that should come here for him?

[clementine]

Call & update us if you can. Those poor kids.

[Starr]

Won't his school call? Who takes care of children while adults are away?

[Alicia64]

Absolutely.

[luuknam]

Does anyone know how long it takes for them to respond to this type of call. The big is currently at our house for the next three days of so. I wonder if that should come here for him?

 

In TX iirc they had 24 hours for imminent danger kind of calls, and 2 weeks for non-imminent danger kind of calls. This sounds like non-imminent danger to me, so up to 2 weeks. Of course, how overworked CPS is and how the holidays are affecting their schedule will likely play a role. You might want to mention the older is staying with you for 3 days, but they might take their time. And, I don't know the rules elsewhere.

Edited December 19, 2015 by luuknam

[Ottakee]

Certainly call. Are the parents willing to let you care for the kids? Are you able to take them long term?

 

We are foster parents and yes, this does indicate intervention is needed. They.might try to work with the parents, doctors, school, etc to keep the kids in the home while meeting their needs but removal might be needed.

[mom2scouts]

This is an easy one. Yes. At the very least they are suffering from neglect. Yes, you should call.

[mamiof5]

This is very sad!!! I hope CPS acts promptly and adequately to help this children! Glad you decided to call. It's a tough decision, but the right thing to do to try to help the kids. How sad :(

[marbel]

How soon?  In my state, CPS has to see the child within 24 hours.  Not sure how they manage that, with staff stretched thin, but that's the way it's supposed to work.  They should be able to tell you when you make the report.

[Danestress]

Who ordered that they clean up the house in the past? Was there a prior DSS involvement?

[TammyS]

I'm gonna say no.

 

Yes, I agree it's all awful.  It sounds like the house I grew up in (actually, it sounds more stable than my home was).  We had CPS called a number of times.  It never helped.  It always made it worse, because who do you think suffers when the parents are freaking out about CPS?

 

Your verifiable complaints are: filth,  no heat....they aren't going to take the kids for filth (they will order mom to clean up, and she will until they go away, then she won't anymore, all during this time and or some time after she will be freaking out even more).  Having only a fireplace isn't "no heat".  It's just not what you are used to.

 

You suspect: drugs and domestic violence.........suspicions are worth nothing.  If there were people calling the police because of DV, that would be useful, but apparently they aren't.  Screaming people suck, but that's not DV in the legal sense.  They aren't going to take her kids for that.

 

There's really only 2 things CPS can do, ultimately.  1. Take the kids (they aren't going to take the kids for the things you've listed)  2. offer help and services....except you've said this mom has already been offered help and doesn't want it.

 

If you call CPS, the mom will likely going to take it out on the kids (if not directly, then through ramping up the freaking out about it).  Then, once CPS is done with her, she will become far more reclusive and careful about hiding her life and not allow any help for the kids at all.

 

I wouldn't do it.

[Truscifi]

Call. In my state they have to respond within 24 hrs, but that varies state to state.

[RKWAcademy]

I would call in an instant.

[Sdel]

 

 

There's really only 2 things CPS can do, ultimately.  1. Take the kids (they aren't going to take the kids for the things you've listed)  2. offer help and services....except you've said this mom has already been offered help and doesn't want it.

 

 

They will take the kids if the mom has a documented mental health history in conjunction with the neglect.   Ask me how I know.....

 

Stefanie

[Jean in Newcastle]

One of the children has talked about DV - dad beating mom - in what I read of the OP.  That specifically is what made me think that CPS would do something for these children. 

[Tsuga]

I would never hesitate to call if:

 

(a) I thought the children were truly hungry (not, they only eat cold cereal and WIC milk and PB&J, but literally, missing meals)

(b) I thought one of the adults had any kind of illegal substance in the house

© There is domestic violence of an urgent nature

 

The house being dirty and kids being dirty, and the stepdad's history, is sad but would not get me to call CPS in and of itself. The drugs, the violence, and the hunger, would make me call.

 

Good luck to you, OP.

[Melissa in Australia]

:grouphug:

[MedicMom]

Yes. In a heartbeat.

 

And I say this as one who has an open CPS case against me and is a mandated reporter.

 

If there is nothing going on, CPS will make the report unfounded.

[JessReplanted]

The threat of physical violence & basic needs not getting met (no heat, little food) = Yes.

 

What a sad situation for those kids. :'(

[DawnM]

I would absolutely call.  In fact, you NEED to call.  

 

They will keep your name anonymous.  

 

 

[DawnM]

If they are already afraid of CPS they know they are wrong! Maybe it will be the kick in the pants this lady needs to finally take care of the kids, home, and make better life choices.

 

 

Just want to address the bolded.

 

Not necessarily.  There are some on this very board who have had DSS visits and been fearful but a neighbor has called because of something dumb, like kids biking outside during school hours.  Being afraid does not equal wrongdoing all the time.

[Woodhaven]

I'm always hesitant to call CPS, but if you are *sure* of what you claim, then yes, I would call CPS.  I would not call if what you list are just suspicions, however.

 

Yes, I agree with this.  If you are certain of what you have written/said here, then you should call.  Those poor children would have already been through so much as to warp their lives forever even if they are removed from that home.  It's so sad.

 

I, too am or would be very, very, very reluctant to call CPS, but if I was absolutely sure of what you just said, it warrants a call and some intervention for their physical and mental health. 

[texasmama]

YES.

 

No food, no heat, filthy conditions, and the ages of the children (young) are what will get CPS out there.  Due to the fact there is a 2 year old involved, this might be a priority 1 case (24 hour response).  Every county and state handle the prioritizing differently.

 

I cannot imagine not calling CPS on behalf of these kids.

[Upennmama]

I am a foster parent and a mandated reporter, and I would be forced to report this situation. No question. Absolutely protect those kids.

[ikslo]

I'm gonna say no.

 

Yes, I agree it's all awful. It sounds like the house I grew up in (actually, it sounds more stable than my home was). We had CPS called a number of times. It never helped. It always made it worse, because who do you think suffers when the parents are freaking out about CPS?

 

Your verifiable complaints are: filth, no heat....they aren't going to take the kids for filth (they will order mom to clean up, and she will until they go away, then she won't anymore, all during this time and or some time after she will be freaking out even more). Having only a fireplace isn't "no heat". It's just not what you are used to.

 

You suspect: drugs and domestic violence.........suspicions are worth nothing. If there were people calling the police because of DV, that would be useful, but apparently they aren't. Screaming people suck, but that's not DV in the legal sense. They aren't going to take her kids for that.

 

There's really only 2 things CPS can do, ultimately. 1. Take the kids (they aren't going to take the kids for the things you've listed) 2. offer help and services....except you've said this mom has already been offered help and doesn't want it.

 

If you call CPS, the mom will likely going to take it out on the kids (if not directly, then through ramping up the freaking out about it). Then, once CPS is done with her, she will become far more reclusive and careful about hiding her life and not allow any help for the kids at all.

 

I wouldn't do it.

You say it never helped you when people spoke up and CPS got involved. But you grew up knowing that at least someone, anyone, tried to help.

 

I'm curious as to how worthless you would have felt growing up if you thought no one cared, because no one bothered.

 

 

My vote is to call.

[Upennmama]

I am presently fostering a child from almost exactly this circumstance. So it's not true that nothing can happen. Children are indeed removed for suspected abuse, filth, and inadequate heat/food.

[TammyS]

You say it never helped you when people spoke up and CPS got involved. But you grew up knowing that at least someone, anyone, tried to help.

 

I'm curious as to how worthless you would have felt growing up if you thought no one cared, because no one bothered.

 

 

My vote is to call.

 

No one did care.  They were just doing their job, checking the boxes that they needed to be checked.  The only thing I "felt" about those people is that they were causing a LOT of stress in an already stressful home, and scaring the hell out of all of us, and might take us away.

 

Now, maybe they cared (though I have no impression of that, even in memory), but for sure they didn't get it across to us at the time.

 

So, I never thought anyone cared.  I only thought that they wanted to make trouble for us.  I realize that this is the child's perspective, and coming from a very dysfunctional upbringing, but you asked what I would have thought, so I'm telling you.

 

And my home was worse than what was mentioned in the initial post.

[ikslo]

No one did care. They were just doing their job, checking the boxes that they needed to be checked. The only thing I "felt" about those people is that they were causing a LOT of stress in an already stressful home, and scaring the hell out of all of us, and might take us away.

 

Now, maybe they cared (though I have no impression of that, even in memory), but for sure they didn't get it across to us at the time.

 

So, I never thought anyone cared. I only thought that they wanted to make trouble for us. I realize that this is the child's perspective, and coming from a very dysfunctional upbringing, but you asked what I would have thought, so I'm telling you.

 

And my home was worse than what was mentioned in the initial post.

Thank you for sharing your perspective/experience. Edited December 20, 2015 by ikslo