Please help me to avoid flipping out!

[Cakes]

A mom friend of mine ( Mom A) coordinated carpool for Nutcracker rehearsals several weeks back. Yesterday was the first day.

 

Mom B was to pick up all of the kids to take to rehearsals and another mom was to pick up and deliver the kids to their homes.

 

Mom B pulls up to pick up my kid and another child (who was specifically named as being a part of the carpool, although he is new to the group). 

Apparently after I closed my front door, as my child walked out to the car, the mom told her that there was not enough room in the car and that she and Mom B's DD had to sit in the trunk of the Ford Explorer. Mom B was laughing and making light of it. My DD balked at this but the mother insisted and got more serious to the point of saying " I am telling you, you ARE going to sit in there!"

 

She drove my child (12) like that for 30 mins in bumper to bumper traffic. I am beyond livid!!

 

I need advice as to how to proceed. This mom will be driving one more time, although that is not a problem as I can easily drive my own kid and the extra boy. One problem is that we have an existing carpool with this mom twice a week. There are three of us and we rotate. There are many other times that we will need to carpool together.

 

Should I address how inappropriate this is with her over the phone? Email? A simple text, keeping it light hearted?

 

I don't really want to burn bridges but I don't really want to carpool with her anymore. Actually I never wanted to carpool with her but it is nice to share the driving and be able to help each other out, we are all busy. This is a woman whom I have always kept at an arms distance. She is gossipy and always is digging for information, even gossips about the other dancers to the girls she is driving.

 

By the way, there was a seatbelt open. But she made my DD ride in the back with her DD.

 

PS I did tell my daughter that if she was ever put in that position again to simply not get in the car. She should have come back up to the door and told me. I said that I don't care where she is I will always come and get her if she is being put into a dangerous situation.

[LaxMom]

Yeah, I wouldn't worry about diplomacy with someone who actively endangers my child. I would discontinue carpooling on dates she's signed up to do it and would let the coordinator know why. That is unacceptable.

[Cinder]

Is it even legal for her to have passengers in the cargo part?

 

ETA: It is definitely dangerous and I would probably just drive my own child instead. This mom has no concern for your child's safety.

[bettyandbob]

No more carpool. You drive you dd each way. They figure out how to cover the times you were to drive.

 

Send a simple email. "Due to unforeseen circumstances, dd and I are withdrawing from carpool. I apologize for the inconvenience this will cause the schedule. I will not be driving on (list dates and times you were to drive)"

 

Do not reply to any questions about your withdrawal, except a simple "I can't do it."

[fairfarmhand]

"Things in my life have changed so that the weekly carpooling is inconvenient for our family. I am usually out that way for x errand so it's not necessary. "

 

[regentrude]

It is hard to address this and NOT to burn bridges - this lady suffers from a severe lack of judgement and should not be in a position where she is responsible for any child's safety. This was completely unsafe and also illegal.

 

The most diplomatic way might be to email to the entire group of parents involved with a general reminder of appropriate car safety, including stating that under no circumstances should a child ride unsecured and in the trunk,  without calling the person out by name.

And you can state that you will no longer be participating in the carpool, period. Anybody literate is able to draw conclusions.

[Tanaqui]

While I might be tempted to just back out, is this going to happen next time she runs carpool, some other kid is going to be stuck in the back?

[countrygal]

I would also talk to other moms in the carpool as they may not be aware of their child being in danger. That is unacceptable. I wouldn't worry about burning this bridge. In fact, I'd probably light it myself!!!!

[Shellydon]

I would email all the carpool moms.  "DD and boy were forced to sit in the trunk of Mrs. Ding Dong's SUV yesterday.  Not only is this illegal, it is incredibly dangerous.  From this point forward, we will not be participating in the car pool as I need to ensure my child's safety.  I am sorry for an inconvience this may cause."

[GinaPagnato]

Why should you avoid flipping out?!?!? Is this woman insane? She put two children in her TRUNK and drove for 30 minutes in TRAFFIC????!!!!

 

There is no way I would avoid flipping out and there is NO reason why diplomacy is called for. I would get on the phone with her ASAP and tell her how unbelievably dangerous her actions were and that you will never allow her to drive your dd anywhere and at anytime. Moreover, I would let every other mom know what happened and she would be OUT of the carpool faster than she could blink.

 

Horrible and completely stupid!

[Word Nerd]

It is hard to address this and NOT to burn bridges - this lady suffers from a severe lack of judgement and should not be in a position where she is responsible for any child's safety. This was completely unsafe and also illegal.

 

The most diplomatic way might be to email to the entire group of parents involved with a general reminder of appropriate car safety, including stating that under no circumstances should a child ride unsecured and in the trunk, without calling the person out by name.

And you can state that you will no longer be participating in the carpool, period. Anybody literate is able to draw conclusions.

I'd call that passive-aggressive rather than diplomatic. The sane parents don't need to be lectured on safety or reminded not to let kids ride in the trunk. I think it's obnoxious when people shame a whole group because they're too chicken to address the person actually at fault.

[Cakes]

Thank you everyone.

 

For the weekly carpool it is only 3 girls, so there has never been an issue. But our girls are dancing more now, as they are in the company, and occasionally for rehearsals there are more kids.

 

I just don't understand why, if you know you don't have room, you wouldn't simply say 'I can't take that many kids'.

 

I am dumbfounded. 

 

I am hesitant to email the entire group because it is basically over. The next time she drives for rehearsals she will not have as many kids, especially if I pull out. and emailing would stir a tremendous amount of drama with this mom and her DD. I think I will speak to the coordinator and withdraw myself from the rehearsal carpool and discuss with her how to handle the weekly carpool. 

[Ravin]

I would confront her directly, in person, and send an email similar to Sheldon's suggestion, and make sure the mom of the other kids relegated to the back knows about what happened too.

 

It may not be illegal, if all seat belt positions are occupied, but then it might be. Regardless of that, it's negligent to take on a carpool without enough seats, and I would be livid.

[Cakes]

To clarify it was my DD and the driver's DD that were in the trunk of the SUV. It is absolutely illegal!

[bolt.]

I would email the whole group with a factual description of the events (similar to the above, but less of the 'this is obviously crazy wrong' vibe, and more of a 'dandy if it's fine with you, but not for us, thanks' vibe)... More like, "On last Thursday, a car pool vehicle was loaded with x kids, when only y seatbelts were available. 2 children were transported loose in the rear cargo area. This happened without the knowledge or consent of the parents of one of the children. The other child was the child of the driver."

 

I wouldn't withdraw immediately, but instead say, "I believe car-pool loads should be limited to the number of seat belts in the smallest vehicle. If it is not possible to do that, I will withdraw from carpooling."

[Joanne]

I'd withdraw from the carpool: "Due to a difference in applied safety standards, the carpool arrangement no longer works for my family. I will not be participating, and I apologize for the inconvenience my immediate withdraw causes."

[brehon]

Thank you everyone.

 

For the weekly carpool it is only 3 girls, so there has never been an issue. But our girls are dancing more now, as they are in the company, and occasionally for rehearsals there are more kids.

 

I just don't understand why, if you know you don't have room, you wouldn't simply say 'I can't take that many kids'.

 

I am dumbfounded.

 

I am hesitant to email the entire group because it is basically over. The next time she drives for rehearsals she will not have as many kids, especially if I pull out. and emailing would stir a tremendous amount of drama with this mom and her DD. I think I will speak to the coordinator and withdraw myself from the rehearsal carpool and discuss with her how to handle the weekly carpool.

I think the issue is that Mrs. Ding-Dong WILL eventually endanger other children. The other parents have a right to know this happened and that their kids may be put in the same position. Wouldn't you want to know and have the opportunity to make other arrangements for your kid?

 

Besides, let me assure you, that if Mrs. D-D is performing this unsafe action, I guarantee that she has other unsafe driving practices you *don't* know about.

[creekland]

I'd be pulling out and making sure the other parents knew why.  They might not know.  They might not care.  But I would care if the same thing happened at some other point and a child got hurt.

 

KIDS do weird things and I'm thankful they usually live through them.  I don't expect the same from adults in situations like these and I would not tolerate it for my kids.

[unsinkable]

"Things in my life have changed so that the weekly carpooling is inconvenient for our family. I am usually out that way for x errand so it's not necessary. "

 

the unsaid portion:

 

"What has changed is that I've realized you have your head so far up your own *$$ you can't see daylight."

[LinRTX]

I'm not certain there is a need to calmly confront this situation. If it was my child I would loudly announce it to everyone within earshot that this was unsafe and uncalled for. The mother should have let you know that she did not have room for your daughter.

 

This shows lack of respect for you and your child as well as being a very generousness situation. There is no way I would ever let my child be driven by this woman again.

 

Linda

[bettyandbob]

OP, I'm sensing a separate issue is making you hesitant. That's why I suggested just a simple withdrawal without detailed explanation. You might talk to the carpool coordinator and explain to her so she knows.

 

I do know about moms who try to be queenbees of their children's activities and ruin the experience for other children. And I do know about wanting to keep a 12 yo girl from that kind of fray. I wish I could say it would be easy to inform the group and know that you dd would not have any consequences from a controlling parent who wants to put you in your place.

 

Your first step is to just ensure your dd's safety and withdraw.

[SKL]

Before I did anything else, I would speak to the mom who allegedly did this and get it from the horse's mouth.

 

I would also make sure before participating in future carpools that there are enough seatbelts for all the riders.  Personally I think this is a shared responsibility.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I tend to like the direct approach.  "I was very upset to discover that my child was asked to sit unsecured in the back of the car.  In the future I would hope that you would not accept carpools where there are not enough seats and seatbelts to go around.  I will be driving my daughter from now on."  And I would tell Mom A - the simple truth, not gossip, because she coordinated the carpool and needs to know that she asked someone to drive who has bad judgment.  As to gossip - well, anything she says about this situation will reflect badly on herself, not you.  

[QueenCat]

I think it is wrong to NOT tell all of the other parents because they need to know that they may want to reconsider allowing their children to ride with this mom. This group of rehearsals may be just about over with but there are future ones to consider. If you don't tell the other parents, and she does it again, and there is an accident that injures a child in the rear cargo area, you may have been able to prevent it. Even if it stirs up trouble.

[La Condessa]

I would probably send out an email saying something like, "I was unaware that the carpool was overbooked, and our family will be withdrawing from participating so all children can be transported safely in the size vehicles being used."

[aggieamy]

I would have been livid.  She was right there at your house ... she could have told you she didn't have a seat-belt for your DD.  (Just to give you an idea of my respect for vehicular safety - I was driving carpool for girl scouts the other day and another mom that was supposed to be driving had to cancel at the last minute.  I was driving DH's Suburban and could seat seven but was nervous about it since that would have been a kid in the front seat.  An 11 year old kid who was taller than me.)  Light her up.  I would have been disappointed if I wasn't warned that a mom had done that and then my kid ended up in that situation.  

[FaithManor]

Totally illegal, and put your child at terrible risk, absolutely dangerous. She actually put everyone at risk because an unbelted/unrestrained human is a ricocheting nightmare for all of the other persons in the car when that individual goes flying through the air at impact.

 

You are not obligated to be friendly in the matter. Since it was illegal, you would be well within your rights to call the police and report her. They probably cannot do anything after he fact, but they may take her name and address or phone number so they can trace her, and a description of her vehicle so they can watch out for her driving with unrestrained kids again which should net her a hefty ticket. She would absolutely deserve such a ticket, and you'd be doing the rest of the kids in her care a big favor.

 

Wow, just wow.

 

I would not yell or anything like that, but when I was done with the conversation she would an understanding that she would not be trusted with my kid again. On top of which, I would contact the parents of the other children as well. They need to know this because it could be their kid next. They can do what they want with the info, but I would NOT allow this to pass and no fear of internal politics would stop me. The law is on your side.

[Anne in CA]

I just want to say that I would absolutely call her out on it in front of everybody, because it is nuts! Who does that in a developed country??? Does she think it's Africa? I would make sure the other parents are aware. BTW, my cousin does this with her carpool every day in Dar es Salaam, but she really has no choice and traffic moves at such a crawl that no one could really be hurt in a crash, but if this woman had been going even 40 and crashed those girls would have serious injuries!

[Cindy in FL.]

I think Jean is spot on here.

 

I tend to like the direct approach. "I was very upset to discover that my child was asked to sit unsecured in the back of the car. In the future I would hope that you would not accept carpools where there are not enough seats and seatbelts to go around. I will be driving my daughter from now on." And I would tell Mom A - the simple truth, not gossip, because she coordinated the carpool and needs to know that she asked someone to drive who has bad judgment. As to gossip - well, anything she says about this situation will reflect badly on herself, not you.

[foxbridgeacademy]

It is hard to address this and NOT to burn bridges - this lady suffers from a severe lack of judgement and should not be in a position where she is responsible for any child's safety. This was completely unsafe and also illegal.

 

The most diplomatic way might be to email to the entire group of parents involved with a general reminder of appropriate car safety, including stating that under no circumstances should a child ride unsecured and in the trunk,  without calling the person out by name.

And you can state that you will no longer be participating in the carpool, period. Anybody literate is able to draw conclusions.

:iagree: and because of other children's safety, when asked I would explain in as succinct terms as possible why you will no longer be carpooling.  The other parents do have a right to know, I'd want to know :cursing: .

[Rebel Yell]

My children all know that the only way they are to be transported in a vehicle without a seatbelt is in an emergency evacuation when no other option is available.

 

So first, make sure your kids understand basic safety issues.

 

Next, you've gotten good advice already.

 

So glad there was no unfortunate incident. :grouphug:

[QueenCat]

:iagree: and because of other children's safety, when asked I would explain in as succinct terms as possible why you will no longer be carpooling.  The other parents do have a right to know, I'd want to know :cursing: .

 

Exactly. I'd be pretty upset if I wasn't told something like this, and I continued to put my child in this woman's car.

[mathnerd]

I would email the whole group with a factual description of the events (similar to the above, but less of the 'this is obviously crazy wrong' vibe, and more of a 'dandy if it's fine with you, but not for us, thanks' vibe)... More like, "On last Thursday, a car pool vehicle was loaded with x kids, when only y seatbelts were available. 2 children were transported loose in the rear cargo area. This happened without the knowledge or consent of the parents of one of the children. The other child was the child of the driver."

 

I wouldn't withdraw immediately, but instead say, "I believe car-pool loads should be limited to the number of seat belts in the smallest vehicle. If it is not possible to do that, I will withdraw from carpooling."

I would withdraw immediately. And I would email the group stating exactly what happened as bolt mentioned above and state that as the reason for withdrawing. That is not confrontational or burning bridges in my opinion. I bet that there are other moms in that carpool who would want to withdraw when they hear the reason why the OP would like to withdraw.

 

ETA: It is a ticketable offense in my state.

[LaxMom]

I think the issue is that Mrs. Ding-Dong WILL eventually endanger other children. The other parents have a right to know this happened and that their kids may be put in the same position. Wouldn't you want to know and have the opportunity to make other arrangements for your kid?

 

Besides, let me assure you, that if Mrs. D-D is performing this unsafe action, I guarantee that she has other unsafe driving practices you *don't* know about.

I agree. And on this alone, the "regular" carpool would be an absolute no-go.

[Starr]

Do other people have bigger cars? Why is she in the pool if she doesn't have enough seat belts? If you drop out will this solve her problem? I would want to send an email that asks who is volunteering their child to sit in the trunk next time? Really I drop out of these situations and then get talked about. :D 

[Cakes]

I just spoke with the mom who coordinates and explained what happened. Of course she was appalled. 

 

I think emailed Ding Dong (thank you for that nick name) and told her that I didn't realize there were two extra kids in the carpool (she never told anyone) and I do not have room in my car but that I will pick up the other three and drive them.

 

She responded that there was a last minute change.

 

I responded that she "should have let me know that you were short seat belts because I would have rather driven my kiddo than have her ride in the cargo area of your vehicle."

 

She replied "sorry! There was an open seat belt."

 

I said  " Child's Name felt directed by you to sit in the back, are you saying that you gave her the option?"

 

*crickets*

 

Carpool for the next set of events will be re-arranged so that she drives her own kids because she doesn't have enough seat belts for the number of kids involved, nor do I for that matter. She added in two kids without telling anyone.

 

 

[Cakes]

She said " I suggested that she ride in the open belt but she wanted to ride in the back with my DD"

 

I ended with " Ok, I will speak to her about the inappropriateness of riding without a seatbelt."

 

Done.

[bolt.]

Does that seem likely: that she had the seatbelt option, but wanted to be with her friend, but regretted that, and therefore wanted you to believe she didn't get a choice?

 

That's something within my DD's current level of honesty, and it makes sense. It's a reasonable motivation for a small-seeming lie. (Meaning that it's kind-of within the range 'expected misbehaviour' -- not implying that it's ok.)

 

Or does it seem more likely that your DD is in the scrupulously honest camp, and the driver is telling a fairly obvious like to avoid being blamed?

[SKL]

So there are two sides to the story.  I'm glad you asked.  I thought it sounded iffy that there was an open seat belt but the driver did not allow your kid to use it.

 

The driver still made a poor decision.  Bottom line, there must be enough seat belts for all riders.  And kids need to be required to wear them.  But I would not tell anyone else that she *made* your daughter sit in the back.  I'd focus on the need for carpool drivers to have enough seat belts for all riders.

[Seasider]

While the seating issue is a most egregious error, I'd pull out of the carpool permanently, because I would not knowingly allow my child to be a captive audience for poisonous words.

[NorthwestMom]

I think you handled this very well, Cakes!

 

I would be very wary of this mom. She is showing very unsound judgment. No kid gets to decide to ride without a seatbelt. Wth????

[Elisabet1]

I would be so angry too!!!!!

[Guest submarines]

Illegal and irresponsible to let the child to ride in the trunk, even if said child wanted to.  She can't be trusted to make rational decisions, period.

 

However, if my 12 yo DD agreed to ride in a trunk, especially while a few steps from home (access to mom, access to another vehicle), I'd be re-assessing whether she was mature enough to be away from parental supervision. 

 

This is the time to talk about the need to think for oneself and not to blindly "obey" any adult in supervising capacity. This is a far bigger safety issue here, I believe.

 

 

[KungFuPanda]

I'm not a fan if the group email, but this is the time to use one. I'd blast one out saying it's time to reorganize the carpool. People should only join it if they have a seatbelt for every passenger. Even one unsecured child, even if it's the driver's child, is unacceptable. That child can get hurt and hurt everyone else in the car should she become a projectile. Also, the kids need to see the adults take this seriously as they probably all felt icky about it. Best case scenario, you burn HER bridges but keep yours intact.

 

Nobody puts Baby in the trunk!

[Plink]

I would be mortified to find out that a friend withdrew from a carpool for safety reasons and DIDN'T tell me so that I could protect my kid too.  

 

Don't worry about stirring up drama - her reaction to the truth is not your problem.  Worry about the kids' safety.  That is the primary concern.

 

ETA: Just saw your update.  Is she lying or is your daughter?  Something is weird here.

[dirty ethel rackham]

Glad it worked out and you were able to rearrange the carpool without her.  Even if he did offer the seat belt to your dd, Ding Dong still is guilty of poor judgment for taking more kids than she could safely transport in the first place.   

[sassenach]

I'm not a fan if the group email, but this is the time to use one. I'd blast one out saying it's time to reorganize the carpool. People should only join it if they have a seatbelt for every passenger. Even one unsecured child, even if it's the driver's child, is unacceptable. That child can get hurt and hurt everyone else in the car should she become a projectile. Also, the kids need to see the adults take this seriously as they probably all felt icky about it. Best case scenario, you burn HER bridges but keep yours intact.

 

Nobody puts Baby in the trunk!

This.  It's not just about your child.  This lady's judgement is so totally out of whack bad, that she should not have any child in her car. Other parents need to know so they can make informed decisions on their own child's safety.

 

Bridges be damned, I would let that mom know that what she did was dangerous and utterly unacceptable.

[Storygirl]

I've had two situations where people very close to me wanted a child to ride in the car without sufficient seatbelts.

 

One was my sister-in-law, who wanted her son (my nephew) to ride sitting on the floor of my van for a few blocks to the hotel when we were on a family vacation. I refused, even though it was awkward to say no to a family member about the safety of her own son.

 

The other was a friend that we regularly carpool with who forgot that she was picking up both of my girls and not just one of them. She only had one seatbelt available and called to ask if I would allow her to strap both of my girls together. I said no, that I would come pick them up. She found another friend to drive her own child so that she would have room for both of my girls instead. Again, it was awkward to say no.

 

It was probably awkward for your daughter to say no to an adult in this situation. It's a good lesson for her to practice standing up for herself in case something like this happens again.

 

I'm glad you addressed the issue with the Mom B directly. I think it was the right way to go. She was out of line to place your child in danger.

 

ETA: I do think the other parents deserve to know what happened. Perhaps the carpool coordinator can email the other families to let them know, since she is a bit removed emotionally but is in charge of the arrangements. She doesn't need to send Mom B the message that she sends the others but she may want to let Mom B know that she is not to do this again with any other children in a separate message.

[sassenach]

She said " I suggested that she ride in the open belt but she wanted to ride in the back with my DD"

 

I ended with " Ok, I will speak to her about the inappropriateness of riding without a seatbelt."

 

Done.

I don't think there's anything more to say, but wow.  That she thinks any part of that sentence is ok is just beyond me.  I love your response.

[Guest]

When someone shows such extreme lack of judgement in one situation, I don't trust them with children in any situation. I would never let my child ride with this woman again and I would send an email to the group so they can keep their children safe. I realize it is uncomfortable but doing the right thing often is. I'd also have a sit down with my children and discuss trusting your gut and being rude in favor of being safe.