How much do you push when it comes to life skills, personal hygiene habits, etc.?

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

This is kind of a S/O of my own vent thread, but DH and I had a similar conversation weeks ago, and I'm not sure we're on the same page. I'm not even sure how I feel about it.

 

Here's an example. DD12 has long, wavy, thick hair that she hates to brush. She won't cut it, because she's (theoretically) growing it to donate to Locks of Love. It's already down almost to her bottom, and it's thick, so it's a pain to brush. She won't let me trim the ends so that it's easier to brush. She's too lazy to use any kind of product in her hair after showering that will make it easier to brush. She believes that if she sleeps in her braid, she doesn't have to brush it at all the next morning, when in reality, what she has is a unkempt braid and a halo of obvious, fluffy hair all around her head. I tell her she should brush it because it's fluffy and looks like she just woke up, and she shrugs and wets it down, which lasts for all of five minutes. 

 

DH believes that we should insist that she go unbraid her hair and brush it out. He feels that it's still our job to force her to develop good habits, and that her appearance reflects on us as parents. I believe that once I've told her once or twice that her hair is unkempt and that she needs to deal with it, I'm not going to keep fighting about it, because it will only create resentment and defiance, and she needs to feel like we love her and accept her even when her hair is messy.

 

I know that she WANTS to look put together and neat, but she won't put in the effort to do so, so she just shrugs and ignores it. We have the same problem with washing her face in the morning (she's obviously oily and flaky, and she gets big white pimples if she doesn't care for her face), brushing her teeth, putting lotion on her legs, putting her dishes in the dishwasher, cleaning her gerbil cage, going to bed at a reasonable time when she hates oversleeping the next day, etc. These days, between the mopey tween and the argumentative nine-year-old, I'm finding myself all nagged out every single day. 

 

So how much do you push on this stuff? Is there a point at which I have to accept that natural consequences (such as being embarrassed by being smelly or greasy in front of your friends) will drive the changes and that our job is to love her and support her through it? Or should I really be insisting that these personal hygiene things get accomplished so that she doesn't get embarrassed and doesn't reflect poorly on us and on herself (this is really the least of my concerns, but it seems to matter very much to DH, who believes that his mother's insistence on this has served him well)? 

 

I would really LOVE to reduce the amount of nagging I have to do, but not at the expense of my parental duties. I'm just not sure which path is the right one. 

 

TIA.

 

ETA a bit more background info. DH is a snappy, well-put-together guy. His mom will put on a nice top and slacks and jewelry to go to the grocery store. He's not quite that conscientious, but he gets uncomfortable if he has to run to Home Depot in his dirty work boots in the middle of a project. I'm a nice jeans and nice t-shirt kind of girl. I know he wishes I wore a bit more makeup or dressed more nicely, but I won't spend money on dressy clothes that will just get ruined by our daily, crazy, at-home lives or that I have to dry clean or hand wash or whatever. I don't see the point, and we don't have the money.

 

So I suspect he's coming at it from his higher tolerance for a more high-maintenance appearance, and I think he wants her to have a higher standard of appearance for herself. Which I get. But I'm coming at it from the perspective of someone who was once an uncomfortable-in-my-own-skin tween girl, who felt like it was kind of hopeless to do more to my hair or my face because it never looked better anyway (IMO). I grew out of that phase, of course, so I feel like haranguing DD to improve her appearance will only make her feel worse while she's in that phase and confirm to her that she's not acceptable the way she is. Does that make any sense? 

[Anne]

I would enforce the teeth brushing.  That's a medical issue, not an "appearance" issue.  You will have to pay, and she will incur discomfort, if she allows her teeth to decay b/c she's not brushing them.

 

I do think there's a line between being fanatical over appearance and instilling good habits.  

 

Personally, I insisted that my daughters were neat and reasonably tidy before leaving the house (most of the time, anyway).  NOBODY would mistake us for fashion plates!!!   :smilielol5:

The face-washing and so forth eventually took care of itself, for my daughters.

 

Anne

 

 

 

[solascriptura]

Can you take her to get her hair donated this week? If that was her goal length, she has met it and can cut it.

[JustEm]

I would insist on brushing teeth because that has expensive consequences that you have to pay for and it has to do with her health. I would also insist on being brushed and cleaned for important events(church,holidays, birthday parties, etc.) But the rest I'd leave up to her. As long as she's never making you brush her hair I'd allow the length to stay the same. But if she needs your help to take care of it properly on the occasions it is required than a length that she can manage on her own makes more sense.

[rmtzc2009]

My oldest ds struggles with many of the habits you've listed.  Most of them we require.  Brushing his teeth is not optional and he needs to at least appear neat and clean.  He also has to wear deodorant.  It is quite unpleasant to be near him if he forgets although smelling doesn't really bother him. How soon can she donate her hair?  It seems as though it's long enough if it's down to her backside.  

[zoobie]

The teeth I would insist upon being brushed. I've bought those purple disclose tablets to check the older kids and show them the grossness stuck to their teeth.

 

The dishwasher is another--is she going to hire a maid? No. If you're going to eat, you're going to help. Same with the cage. Not fair to the little critters to live in filth!

 

Hair is temporary. If she wants to look like a hot mess, whatever. Now for big occasions, family portraits, clean and tidy is required. Hair trim--dead ends are gross, and they're not going to be used by Locks of Love! I'd give my DD the choice of a salon trim or me trimming those.

 

Face washing--my DD likes the scrubby washcloth things that come dry and you wet them. And I have a little squeeze bottle of Philosophy daily exfoliating scrub in the shower for her. She'll use it in there when she wouldn't take the time at the sink. Me too, honestly! I use the Yes to Cucumbers wipes to remove makeup and clean my face at night. All I can do is provide the tools. It's up to her to use them.

 

If you don't already have one, the Wet Brush (amazon, Target, etc.) is amazing. I use it wet or dry, and I have long, curly, fine (prone to tangling) hair. It doesn't hurt!

[AK_Mom4]

Teeth for sure.

Gerbil gets a new home if it is not being taken care of.

 

We mandated a Ready-To-Go rule for DD. When the time came to leave the house, she had a checklist that had to be complete - clean clothes, face washed, hair brushed. Not being ready meant consequences for her - either she didn't get to go to the activity or she had to make it up to impacted parties if she made us late. Having it spelled out in writing seemed to solve the nagging issue. But it was tough - I had to absolutely enforce the consequences every time for a while until the habits got formed. And anything not on the checklist, I did not nag about.

 

These things aren't an issue now that she is 13. Ww went thru something similar with Ds18 around age 12 too. He was a bit tougher to get the habits in place, but the checklist worked for him too.

[City Mouse]

I go along with the requiring teeth brushing and bathing if I can smell them. With the hair, LNG hair requires upkeep. If you want long hair you have to take car of it. By the way, locks of love won't take the hair if it is a ratty mess. Split ends have to be trimmed off before the length is measured. By not taking care of her hair, she may have made it unusable.

I would require taking care of hr dishes. I'm no ones maid, and if she won't clean the pet's cage, then the pet needs to go to someone who will take care of it.

 

Now, I don't care about dirty or stained clothing as long as it doesn't smell. My only rule is no exposed underwear.

[City Mouse]

I go along with the requiring teeth brushing and bathing if I can smell them. With the hair, LNG hair requires upkeep. If you want long hair you have to take car of it. By the way, locks of love won't take the hair if it is a ratty mess. Split ends have to be trimmed off before the length is measured. By not taking care of her hair, she may have made it unusable.

I would require taking care of hr dishes. I'm no ones maid, and if she won't clean the pet's cage, then the pet needs to go to someone who will take care of it.

 

Now, I don't care about dirty or stained clothing as long as it doesn't smell. My only rule is no exposed underwear.

[Catwoman]

Can you take her to get her hair donated this week? If that was her goal length, she has met it and can cut it.

I'm wondering whether she really wants to donate it or if she wants to keep her long hair. I definitely wouldn't force her to donate or cut her hair if she isn't 100% positive about it.

 

(I know you didn't suggest that -- your post just got me wondering about the Locks of Love thing.)

[Catwoman]

About her hair -- would she use a leave-in conditioner or a spray-on detangler? You can get White Rain Kids' Detangling Spray for 97 cents a bottle (bright neon green spray bottle) at Walmart, and it could help keep the tangles at bay and give her hair a smoother appearance in the braid. It also has a watermelon fragrance that would mask any odors if she hasn't washed her hair for a few days.

[catz]

I'm wondering whether she really wants to donate it or if she wants to keep her long hair. I definitely wouldn't force her to donate or cut her hair if she isn't 100% positive about it.

 

(I know you didn't suggest that -- your post just got me wondering about the Locks of Love thing.)

 

I wouldn't force donation or an extreme cut either.  That said, I do require regular trims to keep long hair healthy.   I don't consider a trim a "cut".  My dd resisted a trim for a while and let it slide.  By the time we got around to it, it ended up being 5".  It's better just to trim up an inch or 2 at a time if a kid really likes longer hair.  And it's so much easier to take care of and brush if the ends are healthy.  When my son had longer hair, he had to have trims too.  When his got so long and he wouldn't brush it I told him either he needed to start brushing it daily and putting it back out of his face for some of his classes (he takes dance), or it needed to be cut.  He eventually conceded a cut was easier and went with that. 

 

My son is 13 going on 14 and he is actually fairly good with hygiene, but I do send him up to change if his clothes are dirty (he tends to get food on his shirts) and sometimes tell him to take a shower if his hair looks greasy.  I do definitely allow my kids their own sense of style (they chose their clothing and haircuts).  But basic hygiene is important IMO.  I've actually added some of this stuff to their to do list along with school and that has made the whole thing less emotional and just something to get done.   

[Anne in CA]

If it is going to Locks of Love it needs to be healthy looking hair, and should be cared for. If it is hers and it is on her head and she is keeping to forever it needs to be cared for. There really is no middle ground with the hair, because hair that long will get into things (food) and just be yukky if it is not maintained. I would get her the book Care and Keeping of You, and read it with her. IMO, some of this "laziness" will become self esteem issues if not fixed. She may not learn to care for her skin if it looks bad, she may just think she is ugly. Everyone agrees on the teeth, I do too. At that age caring for yourself seems like more work than it is. I had these battles with all my kids who just could not understand that it is easier to pick up after yourself than lose things, easier to brush your teeth than have them pulled or filled, easier to pick up the dishes now than let the get crusty and soak and scrub them later, ect. It is just part of parenting that age group. And yes, my kids were not happy with me about it at the time, but they sure enjoyed the fruits of being attractive when they are well groomed or being able to have friends over spontaneously because their stuff is picked up.

 

My big regret is that I didn't just make these things more of a habit when they were little. We never had much of a set schedule until home schooling, so I missed the chance for hygiene routines to become part of their unquestioned being. A routine is a powerful thing to fight. I should have created one.

[Azalea]

The Curly Girl book recommended by other wtm members really helped me deal with my daughters super thick wavy hair. My dd's hair was a mess. Her hair really was too big a job to take care of on her own without the proper products. She uses several products from Sally's Beauty Supply which has very reasonable prices. But the main things she uses are the As I Am Coconut Co-Wash and a very large plastic comb kept in the shower. She puts on the co-wash and then uses the comb to get out the knots. Now my dd's hair is gorgeous. 

[Ripley]

I think there are always people who will care more (and those who will care less).

Your husband and daughter aren't the same brand of people - at least not at this point.

 

I can see your approach ending one of two ways:

1. My mom loved me unconditionally, and let ME be ME - I care less about appearance. OR

2. I resent my mom for not making/teaching me to take better care - (now) I care A LOT about appearance.

 

And it can happen as soon as a few months from now, or not until she's an adult.

I suppose it just matters on when an external force (outside of her parents) motivates her.

For my boys, this happened between ages 13-15 when girls became more of a priority ;).

For my friend's daughter, it happened when she overheard others commenting on her greasy hair :(.

SHE falls into the camp of #2 (above).

My friend feels it's caused a bigger rift than would've been from more forceful hygiene expectations/nagging.

Hindsight is what it is, though, and she really did believe she was doing the right thing for her daughter.

 

And it's the kind of thing where you're damned if you do, damned if you don't.

It just depends on what brand of person she becomes/remains as she gets older.

And to a lesser extent, which filter through which she will view your relationship.

 

I know that she WANTS to look put together and neat, but she won't put in the effort to do so, so she just shrugs and ignores it. We have the same problem with washing her face in the morning (she's obviously oily and flaky, and she gets big white pimples if she doesn't care for her face), brushing her teeth, putting lotion on her legs, putting her dishes in the dishwasher, cleaning her gerbil cage, going to bed at a reasonable time when she hates oversleeping the next day, etc. These days, between the mopey tween and the argumentative nine-year-old, I'm finding myself all nagged out every single day. 

 

So how much do you push on this stuff? Is there a point at which I have to accept that natural consequences (such as being embarrassed by being smelly or greasy in front of your friends) will drive the changes and that our job is to love her and support her through it? Or should I really be insisting that these personal hygiene things get accomplished so that she doesn't get embarrassed and doesn't reflect poorly on us and on herself (this is really the least of my concerns, but it seems to matter very much to DH, who believes that his mother's insistence on this has served him well)? 

 

So it sounds like she wants to look good naturally, without the putting forth much effort.

Gotta say - I feel the same way and I'm in my mid-thirties LOL.

I wish she'd realize that maintenance is way less effort, and that she can have both.

Can you do a spa day type thing where the info comes from Someone-Not-Mom?

 

I'd require teeth brushing and face rinsing (at minimum).

It's not a popular activity in my home, either. I found they're more willing to JOIN me, though.

So we crowd into a bathroom and brush together; and wash our faces together.

As the boys got older and assumed their own discipline, they stopped being "invited."

I never made it a rule or anything, just designed a way to make it seem they were doing me a favor.

Or had come up with the idea themselves. I'm not above Manipulation Lite for a greater common good ;).

 

I'd let her keep her wily hair, but would require a handkerchief if we left the house.

There are cute ones, she could have fun with that; or a hat.

I'd let her ashy knees stay so, and figure that'd remedy itself in time.

Dishes I'd require; else I'd do them for a fee (monetary or chore).

Gerbil - well, that's a responsibility issue that needs addressing.

 

GOod luck.  You're stuck with some of the least fun ages, but good news is there's a corner ahead.

Once they turn that corner, the battles of these years seem so petty and silly.

 

 

[abacus2]

I am very glad my mother made me take care of my hair. When I was 12, she would tell me that my hair looked greasy and tell me to wash it. I could not see what she was talking about. By the time I was in high school I could see it very clearly. I am glad personal care wasn't optional when I didn't see the need.

[Wabi Sabi]

Both of my kids have very long hair. They can wear their hair however they'd like (as evidenced by my son's extremely long hair- his choice, not mine) as long as the tangles are brushed out at least once a day, it's washed as needed, and trimmed a few times a year to get rid of dead, split ends and keep it healthy. I'm willing to help and will comb, brush, braid, detangle, or do whatever they need, but they have to cooperate. 

My oldest has started to get a little odor if he doesn't shower frequently enough. I do feel as though I have to nag him somewhat to bathe, comb his hair, remind him to brush his teeth, to not wear the same t-shirt for three days straight, etc. He may moan and groan, but it's my job as his parent IMO. The thought that he would take this to mean that we don't love and accept him is outside of my comprehension. 

Recently, my son has started to complain that the kid he has to sit next to in choir has awful B.O., and that it's all he can do to keep from gagging. Now whenever he drags his feet about showering I remind him that he doesn't want to be known as the smelly kid, and that does the trick. 



 

[JessReplanted]

At 12, I think you still have to push. If she's 18 and still not brushing her hair, it's on her.

 

I think she either needs to take care of her hair, or get a cute, short cut.

 

I have an 11 1/2 year old son, and the hygeine thing is a killer. He's a wonderful boy, but he just 'forgets'.

Every day I ask him about his teeth, and remind him to wash his face... It's annoying, but he's still a child.

[Amethyst]

Have you seen the picture of the singer Lorde on the cover of Elle magazine recently? When I saw that picture I said to myself "OOooOOhhh, so that's the look my daughter (who never brushes her gorgeous wavy hair) is going for!!!" To me, I cringe and think, couldn't you just brush your hair. But it's a look. And she gets tons of compliments. Maybe your daughter is also going for a look?

[Truscifi]

We require teeth be brushed, face washed, and hair combed every morning, and teeth brushed again at night. If he complains I remind him that the gunk on his teeth is bacteria poop. That usually motivates him. We also require bathing regularly enough to avoid stinkiness. Beyond that we don't worry over much about appearance. My kids pick their own (weather and climate appropriate) clothes, and Brotherman can pick his own hairstyle as long as he is willing to maintain it.

[Tanaqui]

If your husband wants to make a stink about her hair, then let him do it. Personally, I don't think anybody seriously blames the parents for how the kid looks once they're 12.

 

Ditto with skincare - her body, her business, one or two reminders is fine if you don't care to make more.

 

However, I'd be taking a strong stand about the dishes, teeth are a health issue and so not actually optional, and if she can't care for the gerbil it really does have to be rehomed.

[JumpyTheFrog]

Have her comb her hair out with a beach comb before rinsing the conditioner out. It makes it much easier.

[Wabi Sabi]

Have her comb her hair out with a beach comb before rinsing the conditioner out. It makes it much easier.

Yes! That is the only thing that really works well on my ds' super thick, long hair. As for detangling purposes, Aussie 3-Minute Miracle and a wide tooth combed in the shower really does work miracles. A little bit goes a long way!

 

http://www.drugstore.com/aussie-3-minute-miracle-moist-deeeeep-conditioner/qxp385070

 

 

[Luanne]

At this age my daughter had two choices (and she knew it)... she could either brush it properly herself or I was going to do it.  It wasn't optional.

[Carol in Cal.]

I have and like pretty long hair, and I think that it is quite versatile.

 

If I had a daughter who was doing that stuff, I would let up on all but the teeth, the smell, the gerbil, and going out.

 

I'd insist on teeth brushed daily--that's a major health issue.  I'd insist on a shower or bath and immediate deoderent--that's just part of being kind to others.  And if her hair smells, I'd buy Neutragena, the only shampoo that de-scented my DD's hair when she was that age, and make sure that she is rubbing it all over her head (DD missed the crown of her head sometimes, and the smell survived.  Ugh. I'd have her wash it twice if that happened.)  I'd insist on the gerbil being healthy and safe--that's Another Living Thing, and so that trumps any convenience issues.  For going out, I would want neat hair, although I think that a halo around a neat braid is pretty typical of wavy hair, not her fault, and inoffensive.

 

But I'd also get her to play with her hair, or I would do that with her.  Klutz Press has some great books about working on long hair.  Renaissance Faires have awesome hair implements for long hair for sale.  Long hair can be a glorious thing, and it would be nice if she could enjoy it more.  Not everyone can grow their hair out that far, and it's pretty special.  And honestly, it's hard to brush out really long hair like that, and I'd help her with it.  But I'd also teach her how to gradually get the tangles out with a wide toothed comb, starting from the bottom, and working her way up the tail.  I'd remind her to do that before shampooing to avoid more of a tangled mess later.  But once it was dry, sure, I would help her brush it out now and then.  Bonding.

 

Also, my wavy hair does really well when I comb it back into medium length clips just behind and above my ears.  That controls the 'halo', and keeps it out of my face, while letting the back cascade down. 

[Excelsior! Academy]

Teeth, hair, showers, and deodorant are non-negotiables.  A teen who lives under your roof that doesn't have the personal hygiene skills to properly care for herself still needs to be required to do so.  An older teen could be allowed to have a preference different from her parents, i.e. shorter hair vs. longer, however that hair ought to be kept up appropriately.

[texasmama]

I require teeth brushing.  If you sit next to me and stink, you will go shower and put on deodorant.  If we are going out in public, you will be reasonably clean and your clothing reasonably matched.  We do not wear dirty clothing out in public.  Plenty of clean clothing is available so we will choose that.  You will be asked to change if you try to leave with dirty clothes.  I am lax about seeing that my 8 year old's hair is brushed.  This would have never happened with my first dd.  My standards have gone downhill a bit as I've gotten older, more tired and busier. 

[Ottakee]

I like the idea of the checklist for each day.  That takes YOU out of the middle.  She just has to look at the list.  It can include her hygiene things, dishes, pet feeding, picking up, and another other chores she has to do.

 

I made a list for my kids that said:

Morning:

 

After School:

 

Before Bed:

 

That really helped as they were more willing to follow a list than to have mom "nag" them about it.

 

You could add in shower, clip finger nails, etc on there as well...............I had a master list but then some of the chores changed from day to day.

[hornblower]

I do require clean teeth, clean hair, clean body, clean clothes.

If the gerbil isn't being looked after by the child, the adults have to do it. In my rulebook, pets are always responsibility of the people who pay rent/mortgage.

I ditto the checklists. Establishing routines takes some kids/teens a long time & a checklists goes a long way to keep them on track. It will take many repetitions before these are actually habits.  I'd put it on her list to shower every morning & condition her hair in there as well as wash her face.... If she needs additional help with hair, comb it out for her while it's wet & she's having breakfast. I had to do that with ds (hair to his waist) for a couple years.

[Elisabet1]

I don't have an answer.

 

In my case..its boys. And BO..it is awful! My 13 yr old threatened to go naked the other day because after his shower, he put his dirty clothes back on. I insisted he change and he was so offended he said "fine! I will just go naked!" and I said "better than what you are doing now." LOL

 

For the record..he did not go naked.  Sheesh! I wonder if I sprayed Febreeze on his next time if that would solve this issue.

[Reefgazer]

OK, this is an unpopular stance with many on this board, but I push the personal hygiene seriously.  It isn't optional because if she maintains poor hygiene it reflects poorly on D and I and I will not have that.  My DD is 12 and refused to brush her hair thoroughly, so I told her it would be cut short if she did not, and that I would be spot checking it.  DD gets acne if she does not cleanse her face.  From experience, the regular cleansing is guaranteed to keep the acne away, so if it pops up, she hasn't been doing her job and there are privilege consequences.  If I smell B.O. on her, we cease what we are doing and march back to the house to bathe; regardless of how much fun she is having doing whatever.  Teeth brushing is not optional because DH and I pay the dental bills, so I have purple disclosing tablets for spot checks.  Yeah, I'm an unapologetic hygiene freak.  It has instilled neat habits and since DD knows there are consequences, I no longer have to nag.   

[MistiDelaney]

I take a rather different approach. I remind. I explain. But I don't nag or demand.

 

I tried that with the older boys and it didn't result in better hygiene but it did result in a lot of wasted time and hard feelings. I eventually gave up, and now, in their thirties, they have good grooming habits all on their own. It was the girls opinions that mattered in the end.

 

So with Caboose Boy, I tried a different tack.  I remind once. I comment when he smells bad or when his hair gets greasy but I don't demand or nag, and he seems to be coming around nicely. Making it his responsibility from early on seems to have worked far better than trying to "own" it for my older boys did. CB doesn't fight me! He doesn't always present himself as I wish he would, but he is doing a far better job than his brothers did at the same age.

 

 

[stripe]

Deleted personal remarks

Edited October 8, 2014 by stripe

[Cera]

I have minimum standards for my kids.  I expect teeth and hair brushed, clothes clean and fitting (style is their choice), faces washed, and smelling like clean children and not barn dwelling heathens (regular showers).

[Garga]

No advice beyond what's already been said, but I wanted to say thanks for the good laugh OP. That post was hilarious.

[Mrs Mungo]

I've only read the OP, but I do have daughters who are 16 and 18. Most kids go through a phase where this stuff is lower on the priority list. Peer pressure and developing maturity will eventually take care of most of the issues. I took a strong stand on things like cleanliness and toothbrushing. I tell them when they smell bad. My kids even made up a song about having to shower and put on more deodorant and powder (seriously, hormonal teens need extra help, they smell), lol.

 

Have you got her a book on development like "The Care and Keeping of You?" Sometimes information comes through better from someone other than mom and dad.

[kiana]

I don't have an answer.

 

In my case..its boys. And BO..it is awful! My 13 yr old threatened to go naked the other day because after his shower, he put his dirty clothes back on. I insisted he change and he was so offended he said "fine! I will just go naked!" and I said "better than what you are doing now." LOL

 

For the record..he did not go naked.  Sheesh! I wonder if I sprayed Febreeze on his next time if that would solve this issue.

 

Tell him if he goes naked you're going to photograph it to show to his first girlfriend.

 

Don't really do it, you'd probably get in some sort of trouble, but that should be enough to get a "AAACCK MOM" 

[katilac]

In  my house, the parent who feels strongly about something gets to be The Enforcer, so l'd let dh have at it. 

[Joyofsixreboot]

I strong arm hygiene and health. Hair I only insist on when going out. Clothes I only comment on for church or an " occasion". As in" No, you may not wear a stained t-shirt and hokey jeans to your cousins wedding." So, on Sunday that hair is brushed, the rest of the time whatever.

[Bambam]

I'm seeing the BO and lack of hair cleanliness/care play out locally.

 

No one wants to hurt the kid's feelings, but I'm noticing kids starting to avoid the individual.

 

Mom and Dad - it is your responsibility to train your offspring in this basic necessity of maintaining some sort of cleanliness standards to facilitate living around other people. This *is* part of parenting. No, it really isn't fun to tell your child to go take a shower or change their clothes. I love you, but in our culture, you need to be clean and decently presentable. They will be avoided and probably talked about if they aren't clean (now, no one assumes you are going to smell wonderful after a hard game of soccer, but those times are the exceptions). Don't do that to your kids. Teach them. Remind them. Nag them. 

 

[Suzanne in ABQ]

One thing you might consider.  I have no idea if it applies to your dd, but I was just mentioning it in another thread, so it's fresh in my mind.

 

Might your dd have sensory defensiveness issues?  I ask because I fought with my now-grown daughter for YEARS about the same issues happening at your house.  She wouldn't brush her teeth well, and her breath stank.  She wouldn't wash her hair well or often enough, and it would hang in oily strands in her face.  She wouldn't clean dishes well -- she'd barely wet them, and rub with just her fingertips.  She wouldn't use the vacuum (which had always scared the daylights out of her since she was little).  The list went on.  I had giving up trying to teach her how to clean.  She knew HOW to do it.  She just wouldn't.

 

Well, finally last summer (2013), at age 16, we had her evaluated for sensory processing disorder because she was avoiding more and more situations that were over stimulating.  The hygiene was one concern, but she was also afraid to drive, she cringed when anyone touched her (even her little sister)r, and she was staying in her room more and more.  I was concerned about her having future relationships.

 

She was evaluated by the Occupational Therapist, who had her take a 200 question computerized survey (we did it together, and had a lot of fun laughing at how they knew her little quirks so well).  The survey showed that she did, indeed, have sensory processing issues, and the OT started her on weekly sessions.  She went for three months.  They used several techniques to help her work through many of her issues, and learn coping strategies for the rest.  The change was strikingly positive!  

 

The first thing I noticed was that she was trying all sorts of new foods.  Then, she wasn't afraid to get her hands wet.  Over a year later she still brushes her teeth for a full two minutes without gagging.  She takes a shower every day without being reminded.  She will even run the vacuum a little.  After all those years of nagging, and getting nowhere, she had three months of therapy, and the problems went away.  

 

Again, this may not help your dd at all.  Just thought I'd mention it because I wish I'd put the pieces together a lot sooner.  

[Katy]

Yes, I require grooming and daily showers, and if hair is a mess I will have it cut off. It's all part of morning chores here, and no one is allowed to do pretty much anything until it's done.

 

I consider it basic good manners.

[kewb]

Bare minimum grooming is the rule. Teeth must be brushed. Hair and body must be clean. Hair must be brushed. It does not have to be perfect hair but you can't have a rat's nest going on. Clothing should be weather appropriate and clean.

Since your dh is the one with the higher standard he gets to be the one to enforce it.

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

Thank you, everyone. I really appreciate the input and insight. Thankfully the situation is not as dire as it could be. She isn't smelly at all, she usually remembers her deodorant, she's good about washing her hair carefully, she doesn't wear dirty clothes, etc. I'm grateful that it isn't worse. The hair and face seem to be the biggest hangup, and getting her into the shower and getting her to brush her teeth take some nagging, even though she knows who important those things are. I think I'm going to insist on trimming her hair today, because it will make life easier, and I'll see if I can't get her to consider a shorter cut in general. Her hair is thick and wavy, but she mostly does a pretty good job of washing and brushing it. She just needs to use some anti-frizz product, but even though she hates the frizziness her hair does have, she won't quite make the leap to using an extra product just yet!

 

She definitely does have some sensory defensiveness, but she has outgrown much of it in the last few years, and it was mostly around her clothing. She can wear some kinds of jeans now, which is a huge relief to me :lol: The hair product/body lotion thing is probably also part of that, because she doesn't like the feel of gloopy stuff on her hands. But really, who does when they first start having to deal with that stuff? I know it's one of those things she'll get used to. The rest, I think, is more a sort of laziness, and I don't necessarily blame her. 

 

I don't like to let DH push her too hard, because he starts out frustrated because he knows my frustration and he comes off unnecessarily harsh. These girls really adore their daddy, and I can see the hurt on their faces when he criticizes them or is sharp with them--which is, unfortunately, too often because he's usually coming in as a second line of defense behind me and he's annoyed that he has to. I'll talk to him about that too, because his opinion does matter to them.

 

Thank you!

[Lisbeth]

I make sure my kids look halfway decent, but I have to say, and this may come out in an offensive way, but there are an awful lot of white kids, especially girls, near me who have perpetually uncombed hair. At one homeschooling event, I think every one of the kids but mine had messy hair. And I mean, tangled and sticking up in the back. I think there's a belief system about rejecting grooming as part of one's individuality or something, as it's particularly popular in certain subgroups who like all things natural. But my kids are not uniformly super excited about hygiene issues. Anyway, I push it, but not in an angry way. As more of an unrelenting reminder.

I am not offended... I have noticed this too. My kids attended a religious (not LDS) private school with a lot of wealthy families, and a lot of kids there had really ratty hair. Ratty hair, clothes with holes, and mansions, lol. I don't see that much at the LDS Church. This is a stereotype, but a lot of LDS members are very groomed. Hyper-groomed. ;)