Attitudes about higher education?

[Night Elf]

My dd19 has decided to enter the workforce instead of attending college. She has gotten many negative remarks about this choice. She has been called a loser. She has been told she will never have anything or be anyone important. One friend asked her how would she get married, have a home, cars, and children. Even her dad and stepmom have berated her, and when that didn't work, they adopted an air of indifference as if they have written her off. They have not congratulated her on her success in her current line of employment. Even her aunt, who ran away from home at 16 and managed to do quite well for herself told her she was being stupid. Now that I can sort of understand because maybe this aunt regrets that choice. But I still don't understand how that compares because my dd19 hasn't quit high school. She has just chosen to not attend college!

 

I've heard that college admissions is easier than past years, and that a bachelor's degree is the new high school diploma. Would you say this is true? If it is true, then are people who choose to not attend college really seen as losers? That hurts my feelings considering my side of the family has only 1 college graduate, my father. Well, my great-grandfather was a physician and he was likely born in the very late 1800s or very early 1900s. Did a doctor go through as many years of education as doctors must do today? But still, at least it was a higher education I suppose.

 

I just feel like all the people who are calling my dd a loser are also insulting my family. It hurts. We may not have mansions or 6-figure salaries but we have had enough things to make our lives fairly decent. My mom says her childhood financial situation could be considered poor but she doesn't recall anything bad about it. I cannot recall anyone in my family history that has not been considered a good worker, as in refusing to work when they did have a job opportunity.

 

Why does it seem like success is mostly defined as having a college education and a professional job that requires a college degree?

[gingersmom]

I would think that people's negative remarks come from their own feelings about having not attended college.

 

She is only 19. I can't imagine that she has the next 100 years mapped out. Who is to say she may not go to college, medical school and become a doctor? Or a lawyer? Or maybe she will not attend school and become the next Steven Jobs?

 

I tell my kids not to waste my money and their money/time. If they are not ready for college when they graduate high school then they should take the time off they need and then re-evaluate.

[lovelaughs_times_three]

Honestly, a lot of the people getting college degrees now are not finding jobs in their fields. They are often working in entry-level jobs that have nothing to do with their education. A college degree is becoming so common-place anymore, it is no longer that special or outstanding. What IS still special and outstanding is a person with passion and vision who is leading their own life rather than following the crowd. THIS is why your daughter will stand out! And why your family is so wonderful as well!

[jamijoy]

I don't see a problem with it. As long as she has taken responsibility for herself and is working and not mooching off of others, and understands that she may never have a high paying job (not that a degree guarentees that either), then it is her choice. She can always go to college if she decides she wants to go later.

 

I'm sorry your family has to deal with other family members being negative about her decision. :glare:

[readinmom]

One friend asked her how would she get married, have a home, cars, and children.

 

:lol:

 

 

 

Your daughter is making her choice, and in her mind, the right choice for herself right now. It's better for her to explore these options now before getting locked into a field of study that she'll regret later. A piece of paper does not make the person that she is, or will become. Feel proud that you have raised a wonderful young woman who knows what she wants!

[Mama Geek]

Alot of times those going to college after working for a few years do really well. They are settled down, know what they want and willing make education their focus.

[TracieT]

Tell her to get used to the comments. No matter what she chooses, someone will tell her it's the wrong one. :grouphug:

 

Before kids I took a summer off from working once. I was told I wasn't helping to support my family (dh and me) and that I was "wasting my mind." :001_huh:

 

My dh is the only one out of four siblings who didn't finish college. He makes more than twice what any of them make and is actually working in the field he was interested in. All they got was a degree and a lot of debt. So, it's really hard for me to say there's a "right" way to do things. Sure, a college degree isn't going to hurt anything. But to say one is worthless without it is ignorant.

[JFSinIL]

Alot of times those going to college after working for a few years do really well. They are settled down, know what they want and willing make education their focus.

 

Exactly! If and when she decides to go, she will. No law says a kid has to go right into college smack out of high school. Some may do better given a chance to more fully mature, save money, figure what they want to do in life.

[Aubrey]

I'm going to be blunt: I thought not going to college was stupid when I was younger. I never *said* that to anyone, but I was raised to believe that that was the one thing that would have made a difference to the adults in my family. (I was the 1st to get a college degree.)

 

When I was struggling w/ balancing school, finances, & a job, my little bro shrugged & said he didn't understand WHY anyone would PAY to go to school. I figured he'd learn later.

 

Now? He hasn't ever gone to college. He got his GED & dropped out of high school. He's not a model of success, but he's doing a LOT better than dh & I w/ our 3 degrees & piles of college debt.

 

In fact, everyone I've met in my age bracket who didn't go to college is financially better off than most of the people I know who went. *Maybe* this will shift as the young lawyers make partner, etc, but since dh & I aren't lawyers...I'm kind-of wishing we'd chosen the route you're daughter is considering.

 

Anyway, I'm sorry she's facing such criticism & unkindness. I wish her the best.

[ErinMarie123]

Honestly, a lot of the people getting college degrees now are not finding jobs in their fields. They are often working in entry-level jobs that have nothing to do with their education. A college degree is becoming so common-place anymore, it is no longer that special or outstanding. What IS still special and outstanding is a person with passion and vision who is leading their own life rather than following the crowd. THIS is why your daughter will stand out! And why your family is so wonderful as well!

 

:iagree:

 

Rather than start her adulthood with tens if not hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt, she's starting off independent with a job making money from the start. It's not the "norm" but I think it's smart. If my boys aren't settled on an area of study before heading to college I'm sure as heck not going to pay big bucks for an "undecided" major. (Not saying he can't switch...I'm just not willing to pay thousands so he can "find himself.")

 

I think she is smart! Kudos to her. :)

[ErinMarie123]

 

Now? He hasn't ever gone to college. He got his GED & dropped out of high school. He's not a model of success, but he's doing a LOT better than dh & I w/ our 3 degrees & piles of college debt.

 

Anyway, I'm sorry she's facing such criticism & unkindness. I wish her the best.

 

Yep -- my brother didn't go to college, but he's a mailman with no debt making over $40K/year. Not a fortune, but a decent amount for where he lives and he's not stuck for years paying off school loans.

 

I think the college bubble is about to burst.

[mcconnellboys]

I think the best thing she can do is put her shoulder to the grindstone and show them. Work hard and be successful. There are many self-made, successful business people in our country who did not go to college. She can go to college at any time in her life if she changes her mind about it....

[abbeyej]

Well, yes, I think a bachelor's degree *is* like a high school diploma was just a few generations ago. I do NOT think she's a loser, but I think that not having that degree will drastically impact her employability in the years to come. The statistics back this up. Difficult as the job market is across the board, it's much worse for people without a college degree than for those with one. ... Obviously a degree does not guarantee employment -- but it does make it easier.

 

I don't think it's automatically a disaster that she's choosing to work rather than begin college immediately after high school. But I would encourage her to keep that door open, perhaps even just take a CC class or two each semester in addition to working, and see how she feels in another year or two. She may find that she really wants to open some additional doors that a degree will provide her.

[Crimson Wife]

I think young people should have some sort of plan after high school- whether that's college or trade school, an apprenticeship, serving in the military, Americorps, mission work, etc. I would be concerned about someone who takes a low-level service job with no plans for further education or training down the road. I've observed that many people just get stuck there, working their life away at some minimum wage job. It's certainly understandable if a 19 y.o. decides to work for a few years to save up money for higher education/training. I just think it's important to have some sort of ambition for a better life down the road.

[QueenieReighn]

For most people, college is an elaborate scam where people charge you thousands of dollars for a peice of paper. Then after, you get a real job where you have to learn the things to do that job there anyways. For a few careers, it is important, but for most, it's a waste of time. I can tell you that out of all my pre-med courses that I took, only one was useful for med-school. I wish that middle step could be skipped. I think the apprenticeships should come back into style...but I doubt they will.

[QueenieReighn]

Also, she could look into finding a job that is willing to pay for her to go to college part-time so that she could further advance in the field...if she is interested in that. I have a few friends that done that and are very pleased with the results.

[Tarreymere]

Plenty of people do very well, even very well financially, without going to college. Personally I think the money I 'invested' in my own college education was wasted. I had been self-educating for many years before I went to college and I found the 'academics' in my private four year college very much less than challenging. If your daughter has an interest in learning she can certainly indulge that without enrolling in a college.

 

A 'high-paying job' is also not out of the question, though that 'high-paying job' is usually more of an indicator of a harried, materialistic, image-focused lifestyle than an indicator of personal satisfaction with one's life and career choices. Plenty of people live very comfortably and happily with an annual income that would horrify those more materialistic people who still believe that money can buy happiness and fulfillment. There are also quite a few people who have refused to jump into the cookie cutter of a college and have still ended up with quite a bit of money while pursuing their passion.

 

Good luck to your daughter and congratulations on raising a courageous young lady who is not content to follow the crowd.

Edited June 28, 2011 by Rainefox

[mom4him]

I am not a huge supporter of all going to college. I believe it depends on what that individual wants to do. If they are wanting to be a MD, they are going to probably have to go to school but many professions are just as well served with a trade school, an apprenticeship, or maybe starting at the bottom and working their way up.

 

I saw a program not long ago about the cost of college and whether it was a good choice. Most of the time it wasn't.

 

I have 3 adult children, one of them went to college. She isn't working in the field she went to school for but still has this huge school loan that she will probably never have paid off.:tongue_smilie:

[Parrothead]

First off, the people how have spoken to your dd are a bunch of rude people. There really is no sense in talking to a young adult in such a manner.

 

Your dd is not a loser. I'm sorry she had to hear things like that from family.

 

What does she want to do with her life? There are still lots of jobs available for people without a college degree. They may not be jobs in high rise office buildings, but there are things she can do to support herself, and when the time comes, her family.

[Mommy22alyns]

My dd19 has decided to enter the workforce instead of attending college. She has gotten many negative remarks about this choice. She has been called a loser. She has been told she will never have anything or be anyone important. One friend asked her how would she get married, have a home, cars, and children. Even her dad and stepmom have berated her, and when that didn't work, they adopted an air of indifference as if they have written her off. They have not congratulated her on her success in her current line of employment. Even her aunt, who ran away from home at 16 and managed to do quite well for herself told her she was being stupid. Now that I can sort of understand because maybe this aunt regrets that choice. But I still don't understand how that compares because my dd19 hasn't quit high school. She has just chosen to not attend college!

 

I've heard that college admissions is easier than past years, and that a bachelor's degree is the new high school diploma. Would you say this is true? If it is true, then are people who choose to not attend college really seen as losers? That hurts my feelings considering my side of the family has only 1 college graduate, my father. Well, my great-grandfather was a physician and he was likely born in the very late 1800s or very early 1900s. Did a doctor go through as many years of education as doctors must do today? But still, at least it was a higher education I suppose.

 

I just feel like all the people who are calling my dd a loser are also insulting my family. It hurts. We may not have mansions or 6-figure salaries but we have had enough things to make our lives fairly decent. My mom says her childhood financial situation could be considered poor but she doesn't recall anything bad about it. I cannot recall anyone in my family history that has not been considered a good worker, as in refusing to work when they did have a job opportunity.

 

Why does it seem like success is mostly defined as having a college education and a professional job that requires a college degree?

 

Unfortunately, yes. I heartily disagree with it and it breaks my heart (as I don't have a degree myself), but it seems to be the general consensus. On another board I visit, not a few weeks ago, there was a huge thread on expecting your kids to go to college. The attitudes towards non-degreed people were astoundingly condescending. :(

[bettyandbob]

The people who are making judgements are losers. Her father and stepmom?! What's wrong with them. Were they going to pay for college?

 

There is no sense in incurring large amounts of debt, if she's unsure college is the right route for her.

 

She should keep her options open and save her money. Then when she makes a decision about a possible career if it involves trade school or college, she'll be on her way to affording it.

[joannqn]

I think the best thing she can do is put her shoulder to the grindstone and show them. Work hard and be successful. There are many self-made, successful business people in our country who did not go to college. She can go to college at any time in her life if she changes her mind about it....

:iagree:

 

 

My plan is to prepare my kids for college in case they want to go, but I'm not expecting them to go. We would fully support our kids choosing to start their own businesses instead.

[DawnM]

:grouphug:

 

Is it possible that those making comments wanted this for her and are just surprised at her decision and aren't responding well and *think* they are helping by telling her to go back?

 

I am very pro-college (former college and career counselor in a high school), but I realize not everyone is going to go.

 

Dawn

 

 

My dd19 has decided to enter the workforce instead of attending college. She has gotten many negative remarks about this choice. She has been called a loser. She has been told she will never have anything or be anyone important. One friend asked her how would she get married, have a home, cars, and children. Even her dad and stepmom have berated her, and when that didn't work, they adopted an air of indifference as if they have written her off. They have not congratulated her on her success in her current line of employment. Even her aunt, who ran away from home at 16 and managed to do quite well for herself told her she was being stupid. Now that I can sort of understand because maybe this aunt regrets that choice. But I still don't understand how that compares because my dd19 hasn't quit high school. She has just chosen to not attend college!

 

I've heard that college admissions is easier than past years, and that a bachelor's degree is the new high school diploma. Would you say this is true? If it is true, then are people who choose to not attend college really seen as losers? That hurts my feelings considering my side of the family has only 1 college graduate, my father. Well, my great-grandfather was a physician and he was likely born in the very late 1800s or very early 1900s. Did a doctor go through as many years of education as doctors must do today? But still, at least it was a higher education I suppose.

 

I just feel like all the people who are calling my dd a loser are also insulting my family. It hurts. We may not have mansions or 6-figure salaries but we have had enough things to make our lives fairly decent. My mom says her childhood financial situation could be considered poor but she doesn't recall anything bad about it. I cannot recall anyone in my family history that has not been considered a good worker, as in refusing to work when they did have a job opportunity.

 

Why does it seem like success is mostly defined as having a college education and a professional job that requires a college degree?

[Kathleen in VA]

Here is a link to a video about college not being all it's cracked up to be and not really worth the money. It's kind of long, but it may help your daughter have some ammunition to fight back with when others question the validity of her decision.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpZtX32sKVE

[Rosie_0801]

If she was sitting at home eating your food and watching daytime television, I'd probably say "go to college" too! But since when is working an honest job loserish? Aren't we aiming for our kids to grow up and pay their own bills?

 

Rosie

[mom2scouts]

For some people, college is not the best choice. Besides, she can go to college at any time in her life if she gets to a point where she feels she needs or wants a college degree. My sister was a teen mom who got a GED and never went to college. She is very successful in her chosen career, works at home in her DC home on the river with her boat docked in back and travels for her job. Her income is probably at least double what my dh and I make and we have FOUR college degrees between us. I'm a supporter of college for most people, but I don't think it's for everyone and I don't think it's required right after high school.

[Mama Geek]

It is sad to see on a homeschooling board so many say that college isn't worth it and is a waste. I will admit it isn't for everyone, but it does open up a lot of doors, if you pick the right major and the right college. I have a BS in Engineering and then worked in the field for more than 10 years before having dd and becoming a stay at home mom. My dh has a master's in engineering and has worked in the field most of the time since he graduated. We had our loans paid off in a few years, we now outright own our own home, we have money saved for retirement, and for emergencies, we have no debt.

 

We worked hard to get through college, we took some risks that had high payoffs. Neither of us started out rich. My parents were divorced and my mom who raised us usually made min. wage or a little better.

 

I have family who have worked in construction and lead a comfortable life. I have family who have some college and own their own businesses and have been successful. There are many paths to take, but not all college is wasted.

[WistfulRidge]

My parents made it clear from very early on that not only was I expected to go to college and get a degree but that I was supposed to go to a very specific college (church school). Nothing else was acceptable. By the time I was 13 I realized that what I wanted had absolutely nothing to do with the situation - so first off big kudos to you for supporting your daughter in her choices. I did exactly what they wanted. I completed a degree in a topic I enjoyed (history) but with absolutely no intention of ever using it. I enjoyed my history classes but otherwise didn't really enjoy the whole college experience - it wasn't what I would have chosen for myself. I now have a lovely $25k in student debt and the piece of paper that says that I "did it". My DH keeps it hidden somewhere, mainly because I think he has a (on some days very legitimate) fear that I'd rip it into shreds and stomp on it. Other days I'm proud that I managed to stick with it.

 

 

I think society has pushed the importance of a degree so much that we, in general, tend to flood into colleges and run around like a bunch of headless chickens with no idea of where we're going or how we're going to get there - other than that college = success. Obviously not true for all cases, but I know many, many people who graduate and then have absolutely no idea where to go from there. College/a degree can be very, very valuable - especially in certain fields, but getting a degree simply to get one is a waste of resources on everyone's part.

 

It sounds like your daughter has some sort of plan, or at the very least knows that college at this time would be a bad idea for her. Good for her! Try to ignore the awful comments. :grouphug:

Edited June 29, 2011 by theAmbitiousHousewife

[ocelotmom]

I strongly feel that my kids shouldn't go to a 4 year college just because it's what they're "supposed to" do after high school. That particular path didn't work well for me, and it's largely a waste of money if they aren't at a point in their lives where they can take it seriously. So many college kids don't really know what they want to do with their lives, and end up dropping out, scraping by with Cs, or changing majors 30 times. Better to get some life experience and really WANT to be there getting an education with a real goal in mind.

 

I hope dual-enrollment works out, and they can graduate from high school with an Associate's degree, and hopefully full lower-division general ed credit for a university. If not, and they can't find something else useful to do with themselves (job, military, AmeriCorp), I'll strongly encourage a 2 year college for general ed and then transfer instead of going straight to 4 year.

[Happy]

It is sad to see on a homeschooling board so many say that college isn't worth it and is a waste. I will admit it isn't for everyone, but it does open up a lot of doors, if you pick the right major and the right college. I have a BS in Engineering and then worked in the field for more than 10 years before having dd and becoming a stay at home mom. My dh has a master's in engineering and has worked in the field most of the time since he graduated. We had our loans paid off in a few years, we now outright own our own home, we have money saved for retirement, and for emergencies, we have no debt.

 

We worked hard to get through college, we took some risks that had high payoffs. Neither of us started out rich. My parents were divorced and my mom who raised us usually made min. wage or a little better.

 

I have family who have worked in construction and lead a comfortable life. I have family who have some college and own their own businesses and have been successful. There are many paths to take, but not all college is wasted.

 

A college degree can open doors decades later. My husband has a degree...but it's not flying related...however, he would not have been considered for his current pilot job if he had not had a 4 year degree.

 

I'm a 54 year old gal. Quite of few 'easy' jobs are closed to me because I don't have a degree...teaching and tutoring, some office jobs, are things I looked into after my kids were older.

 

It's okay, because I have an entreprenurial heart, but it was frustrating when I just needed a part-time position while the boys were at home. I got my real estate license last year...LOVING that.

 

I've counseled my sons to get a degree--even if it is in basket weaving. :lol: Youngest is slowly working on his, incurring no debt as he goes. Older son wishes he'd taken better care of the chances he had to get a degree before finding himself a husband and father.

 

Tell your daughter to go for it! She can always change her mind later.

[LauraGB]

I am not a huge supporter of all going to college. I believe it depends on what that individual wants to do. If they are wanting to be a MD, they are going to probably have to go to school but many professions are just as well served with a trade school, an apprenticeship, or maybe starting at the bottom and working their way up.

 

I saw a program not long ago about the cost of college and whether it was a good choice. Most of the time it wasn't.

 

I have 3 adult children, one of them went to college. She isn't working in the field she went to school for but still has this huge school loan that she will probably never have paid off.:tongue_smilie:

 

I completely agree.

 

As for the "employability" of someone who doesn't have a degree, well, they might just end up being the "employer". ;) We know an awful lot of small business owners, and more often than not, they don't have college degrees (dh and I included). Possibly while their peers were off at college, some of them were working their butts off to not have to work for one of them later on.

 

I heard on the news not too long ago that one of the techy companies (Apple? Facebook? I'm not sure which, I'd have to check) offered kids scholarships to *not* go to college. The idea was to give them the $100K they would have spent on 4 year college and have them spend 4 years following a passion and being able to create jobs. I thought that was pretty interesting. Depending on where my own kids are in a few years and where their interests/passions lie, I might do the same for them.

 

ETA - it was the PayPal co-founder.

Edited June 29, 2011 by LauraGB

[QueenCat]

It is sad to see on a homeschooling board so many say that college isn't worth it and is a waste. I will admit it isn't for everyone, but it does open up a lot of doors, if you pick the right major and the right college. I have a BS in Engineering and then worked in the field for more than 10 years before having dd and becoming a stay at home mom. My dh has a master's in engineering and has worked in the field most of the time since he graduated. We had our loans paid off in a few years, we now outright own our own home, we have money saved for retirement, and for emergencies, we have no debt.

 

We worked hard to get through college, we took some risks that had high payoffs. Neither of us started out rich. My parents were divorced and my mom who raised us usually made min. wage or a little better.

 

I have family who have worked in construction and lead a comfortable life. I have family who have some college and own their own businesses and have been successful. There are many paths to take, but not all college is wasted.

 

:iagree: I find the attitude that it is a waste "odd". I don't think it's for everyone but I never think education is a waste. There are many paths to success. Further education is one of them. Dh couldn't do what he loves without a college degree. He's finishing his masters this year so he can go further in his field. With his company, the next promotion requires a masters (thankfully, they are paying for the degree too!).

[Wabi Sabi]

It is sad to see on a homeschooling board so many say that college isn't worth it and is a waste. I will admit it isn't for everyone, but it does open up a lot of doors, if you pick the right major and the right college. I have a BS in Engineering and then worked in the field for more than 10 years before having dd and becoming a stay at home mom. My dh has a master's in engineering and has worked in the field most of the time since he graduated. We had our loans paid off in a few years, we now outright own our own home, we have money saved for retirement, and for emergencies, we have no debt.

 

 

Exactly, but there are many of us (myself included) who didn't chose the right major/school. When I graduated from my private college prep high school I honestly didn't even know that I had any other option other than going straight to college. Not going to college would have been scandalous!

 

I went off to school really having no idea what I wanted to do. I floundered, changed my mind numerous times, and my heart just wasn't in it. Now, here I sit years later with nearly $100k in loans (gotta love compound interest!) making $10/hr working the night shift. My art history degree is absolutely useless since I really never had any intention of going into academia.

 

If my children want to go to college that's fantastic and I will do everything I can do to support them, but if they have no idea what they want to do and express ambivalance I want them to know that it's also okay to work and travel for a while.

 

I just really think that we're doing a huge disservice to our kids to expect everyone to go to college right out of high school, racking up huge amounts of debt along the way, when there be other options that would be more rewarding for a particular individual.

[WTMCassandra]

I think it is highly unwise (and rude) for extended family to dismiss your dd as a loser because of this choice.

 

I am generally a fan of college, but only if it makes sense for the specific person. I would be asking the following questions:

 

Is she choosing to enter the workforce for only a time, or permanently?

Is her job choice one that clearly fits her interests?

Is her job choice one that she has been talking about for a long time?

Is she foregoing college because she thinks she can't do it or because she doesn't know what to major in?

 

It is true that sometimes the piece of paper can open doors later in life, but it is also true that college or the ensuing debt can be a huge mistake. I would look at the young person's life trajectory as possible to see now to see whether going into the workforce makes sense.

[AvasMom]

Statistically, if she goes to college she does have a better chance of getting a good job and a better income. That being said, I am shocked that people are calling her a loser. That's just unacceptable regardless of her (personal) decisions about her future.

[kalanamak]

My dd19 has decided to enter the workforce instead of attending college. She has gotten many negative remarks about this choice. She has been called a loser. She has been told she will never have anything or be anyone important.

 

Sorry if these people are your family and friends, but such comments are ignorant and ill-bred.

[Mama Geek]

Exactly, but there are many of us (myself included) who didn't chose the right major/school. When I graduated from my private college prep high school I honestly didn't even know that I had any other option other than going straight to college. Not going to college would have been scandalous!

 

I went off to school really having no idea what I wanted to do. I floundered, changed my mind numerous times, and my heart just wasn't in it. Now, here I sit years later with nearly $100k in loans (gotta love compound interest!) making $10/hr working the night shift. My art history degree is absolutely useless since I really never had any intention of going into academia.

 

If my children want to go to college that's fantastic and I will do everything I can do to support them, but if they have no idea what they want to do and express ambivalance I want them to know that it's also okay to work and travel for a while.

 

I just really think that we're doing a huge disservice to our kids to expect everyone to go to college right out of high school, racking up huge amounts of debt along the way, when there be other options that would be more rewarding for a particular individual.

 

I think that is where we as parents should come in. I hope by the time dd is ready to live on her own that we are able to help her determine a path to be able to support herself (husband and or kids) whether it be going to college with a major that is likely to get a good paying job, working in a trade or staying home to raise a family. I hope to teach her how to make good decisions and how to set goals.

[Chris in VA]

:grouphug:I don't think she's a loser.

 

I think college is more than "academics that lead to a job," and that the measure of success is more than $.

[Desert Rat]

I too have a hefty piece of paper, only mine is in English Lit. I've never used it but I did it, doggone it! I never understood the whole "a graduate must go to college" thing. I do understand having a direction though. I think it is wise for someone to have a trade or apprentiship lined up after high school.

[Anne in CA]

I am proud of your dd for sticking to her guns. I have a good idea what she has been through. People like this have worn down my 23yo dd and she is now making plans to attend college she can not afford in a major that will probably never pay back the loans and people are cheering her on right and left. She is really only doing this because no one thinks her daycare job is "important". She is wonderful at her daycare job. She could own her own daycare and while she might not get rich, she would be doing a good thing. It is sad that so many people don't care about what really matters.

[beaners]

I think it's fine if she isn't ready right now or has a different goal in mind.

 

I will add a very strong qualifier to the statements from some posters that she can always go later if she changes her mind. There are some seasons in life where it is very, very difficult to return to or begin college. It's not impossible, but it's certainly not as easy as it would have been before beginning a family, for example. For many people, having those children to take care of is the reason they are ready to buckle down and work. They wouldn't have succeeded right out of high school. But, a lot of people want to go back and can't overcome financial obstacles or find affordable childcare. You "can," but will you actually do it?

 

I think the responses to your daughter were rude. I don't think someone who doesn't go to college is a loser. I do think that with the exception of self-employment, it is getting harder to find jobs that can support a family and don't require a degree. Target requires a degree for their managers. I know that one major health insurance company won't even look at resumes or applications to answer the phone if there's no degree. They don't "require" a degree, but they toss all the candidates without one because it's the easiest way for them to sort people applying for customer service and receptionist positions. Their minimum wage, entry-level jobs require a degree. I think there are enough degrees out there right now that employers can require them for jobs that don't really need them.

 

This is a tough time to be a young adult. There are a lot of places where work is hard to find. It's getting more expensive to attend college and get a degree that ought to qualify you for a career. Sometimes the degrees aren't helpful for gaining employment, and people realize it too late. You just see what looks best for your family, and hope you picked the right door.

[annandatje]

My dd19 has decided to enter the workforce instead of attending college. She has gotten many negative remarks about this choice. She has been called a loser. She has been told she will never have anything or be anyone important. One friend asked her how would she get married, have a home, cars, and children. Even her dad and stepmom have berated her, and when that didn't work, they adopted an air of indifference as if they have written her off. They have not congratulated her on her success in her current line of employment. Even her aunt, who ran away from home at 16 and managed to do quite well for herself told her she was being stupid. Now that I can sort of understand because maybe this aunt regrets that choice. But I still don't understand how that compares because my dd19 hasn't quit high school. She has just chosen to not attend college!

 

I've heard that college admissions is easier than past years, and that a bachelor's degree is the new high school diploma. Would you say this is true? If it is true, then are people who choose to not attend college really seen as losers? That hurts my feelings considering my side of the family has only 1 college graduate, my father. Well, my great-grandfather was a physician and he was likely born in the very late 1800s or very early 1900s. Did a doctor go through as many years of education as doctors must do today? But still, at least it was a higher education I suppose.

 

I just feel like all the people who are calling my dd a loser are also insulting my family. It hurts. We may not have mansions or 6-figure salaries but we have had enough things to make our lives fairly decent. My mom says her childhood financial situation could be considered poor but she doesn't recall anything bad about it. I cannot recall anyone in my family history that has not been considered a good worker, as in refusing to work when they did have a job opportunity.

 

Why does it seem like success is mostly defined as having a college education and a professional job that requires a college degree?

 

My hat is off to your daughter for having the chutzpah to cut a new frontier along a well-worn path.

[Crimson Wife]

I heard on the news not too long ago that one of the techy companies (Apple? Facebook? I'm not sure which, I'd have to check) offered kids scholarships to *not* go to college. The idea was to give them the $100K they would have spent on 4 year college and have them spend 4 years following a passion and being able to create jobs. I thought that was pretty interesting. Depending on where my own kids are in a few years and where their interests/passions lie, I might do the same for them.

 

ETA - it was the PayPal co-founder.

 

But these are far from typical high school grads. They have the brains, work ethic, and the ambitions to get accepted into selective universities (Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Stanford, MIT, Carnegie Mellon, Purdue, etc.) Bill Gates and Mark Zuckerberg may be famous college dropouts, but simply getting into Harvard in the first place sets them apart from the average teenager.

[LauraGB]

But these are far from typical high school grads. They have the brains, work ethic, and the ambitions to get accepted into selective universities (Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Stanford, MIT, Carnegie Mellon, Purdue, etc.) Bill Gates and Mark Zuckerberg may be famous college dropouts, but simply getting into Harvard in the first place sets them apart from the average teenager.

 

Sure, those specific kids were different. But there are a lot of others out there with the ability to create big things, too. I'm not suggesting not taking classes in your area of interest, I'm just saying that the whole college package isn't necessarily worth it to a lot of people. The same could really be said for the whole k-12 gig - there seem to be a lot of super well adapted, productive homeschoolers around these parts ;).

 

And OP, I forgot to add in my earlier post - anyone, relative or not, who would look at your dd with a job and an interest in it, and say the things people have said to her, are just rude and ill-mannered. She needs to do what feels right right now. If she doesn't, she may likely regret it. If she chooses to go to college later on, that's just fine - the average life is pretty long, with many, many changes along the way.

[parias1126]

The fact that family spoke to your DD in that matter is ridiculous. I let my children make their own decisions when it comes to what they want to do after high school. They know this at a very young age. My DS who is 7 yo already talks about going to college on a weekly basis. He is very excited at a young age. My DD who is 18 is choosing to go to Cosmetology school instead of college and is in the process of trying to get a job at Clinique. I am extremely proud of her! I am sure you are proud of your DD too.

 

I have family just like you do who thinks education is a priority after high school. I have a sister who is very materialistic as well as her husband and they have to have the best of absolutely everything including very expensive home, very expensive vacations, and lots of other expensive things. This is what makes them happy. They are raising their children the same way. When my DD told my sister she wasn't going to college, it was like the end of the world in their eyes and they wanted to step in and go to the college to try to "help her" get in when she was having trouble passing the placement tests. Mind you, they live 700 miles away. I think a lot of us have family like this.

 

I, myself, never went to college. I never even thought about it. I found a job at a very young age, had a baby and got married, even bought a home all at the age of 18. There is absolutely nothing wrong with it. By the time I was 23, I was a paralegal at a fairly decent firm making a very good salary with health insurance and a ton of other benefits.

 

It can definitely be done! I wish your daughter the best and congratulations on her new job! :001_smile:

[justamouse]

I do not have a college degree.

 

Dh is a few credits short, not that his would have *anything* to do with what he does or the company we own.

 

Hard work accomplishes a lot. But you also have to be learning all the time so when luck comes sauntering by, you can bludgeon it.

 

I have one friend who dropped out of HS at 16. Her parents Freaked the Truck Out. She went to work at a title company. Within 10 years she OWNED the title company, and in the next five, moved it to Manhattan, bought a house in the Hamptons and I think the rest of her life has still been blessed.

 

Anecdotal, yes, but not out of the realm.

 

Tell your family their concern is appreciated but misplaced, and to shut their yaps if they have nothing nice to say.

[FO4UR]

Another college degree collecting dust over here...I've got the SL's to prove it.

 

I seriously regret going into debt to go to college. Seriously!!! I also regret allowing myself to be pushed towards a certain area, being the push-over 18yo that I was. Ironically, if I would have gone the route I originally wanted to go, I think I would be better positioned to make $$$ PT while I SAHM and HS.

 

All that said, I would have been 100x better off if work ethic, money management, and some people skills (unsocialized public schooler that I was:tongue_smilie:) had been the main focus rather than college. I focused narrowly on one thing that is incompatible with SAHM/HS rather than focusing on the things that breed success no matter where life takes me.

 

My kids are too young for me to give advice about college age kids, but I do wish that I would have taken some time to get to know what *I* want out of life before declaring a major in college...or going to college...

[Sasharowan]

I went to community college right out of high school, got a D average and dropped out. Went back a few years later, started over, and got an AA with a 3.9X avg. Dh dropped out in 11th grade, got his GED, went back after I got my AA and got a BA. Then I went back and got my BA. We had 3 kids by the time I started my BA degree. Now, He cleans pools and I homeschool the kids. The degrees come in real handy, not.

[stripe]

I think it's dumb to do something just because everyone else is supposedly doing it. I think t's good she's trying to be thoughtful. People make stupid comments all the time and it's so offensive. Sorry.

 

I can't believe someone would think you'd need to graduate from college to have kids! That at least is hilarious.

[Garga]

I didn't go to college. I went straight to work and worked my way up until I had my sons. When the time comes to get another job, I'll be lucky to get something at an entry level. For many jobs, my resume would be tossed right out the window because of no degree. Even for entry level.

 

However....if you go to a private college full time right out of hs and don't use the degree (or get it in something unemployable, like art history), then you're stuck with HUGE bills and still may only get an entry level job, or something just slightly above.

 

D@*&ed if you do and d@*&ed if you don't.

 

 

Lately, I've been going to a community college on and off, trying to get the basics, but it's TOUGH. So...even though she could go back later, it's a very hard road to walk. It strains the marriage (time together is lost) and the house falls apart.

 

 

In a dream world, your daughter would work at her job and take 1 or 2 community college classes. A couple of classes at a CC will not break the bank or infringe upon her time too much, esp. since she doesn't have a dh or kids. But it will also be chipping away at the college degree, which is necessary if she ever wants to move to a new field or wants her resume to make it thru the weeding out process.

 

 

But I'd never call your daughter a loser!! Ever! What awful things to say. Were they trying to shame her into going to college? How silly. Much better to calmly talk to her about the pros/cons of college, and listen to her responses before name-calling.