Why must people be so incivil? Venty-vent-vent.

[Guest]

@MercyA, I totally LOL’d about turning the paper plate because  I absolutely do that! (Though I’m not from the midwest.) 

[EKS]

24 minutes ago, MercyA said:

Cheerful, with a smile?

I think one of the problems is that we're all wearing masks (at least we are where I live).  It's like how it's hard to detect tone on the internet except in real life.

That and I think the...frankness...we've grown accustomed to on the internet is spilling over into in person interactions.

[Elizabeth86]

Ugh. Well I'm not going to lie. Watch yourself would probably set me off. BUT I'm from the south and where I'm from people are super polite about things like that. I'd be so offended if someone said watch yourself. Also, the woman being in the way would probably be apologizing all over the place. 

[MooCow]

1 hour ago, prairiewindmomma said:

Other regional quirks:

1. Do you greet the checkout clerk?  Yes

2. Do you thank the checkout clerk when they hand you your receipt? Yes

3. Are you obligated to empty the cart of trash even if you didn't put it there before returning it to the corral? ie--you inherited a cart with receipt tucked into the frame at the bottom--what do you do? I should but I think it’s gross

4. Do you ever aid someone else who is trying to pick out produce? No,but sometimes I get help 

5. Do you feel guilty for not letting someone with 1-2 items behind you go ahead of you in line when you have a full cart?  No because I always let them go...unless I’m late for the car rider line

6. Do you make eye contact with strangers in the aisle and smile? Yes

7. Do you small talk with people in line (strangers)? Yes

 

[Garga]

Lately I can’t use words properly. So I wouldn’t have even said “Watch yourself’ or “Watch out! but probably would have blurted out, “Ooo! Bumpie ow splat!!” So, kudos for saying something real and not using made up words in the moment. 😄

And I wonder if we all have a lot of rage buried not very deeply. 

In order to turn on my street, you have to make a 45 degree turn...it’s a tight turn.  You must, must, must slow down or you won’t be able to make the turn. The other day, I was on the main road trying to turn on to my road. The main road was completely clear of snow, and my road hadn’t been cleared at all. When I’d left the house just a few minutes before (a quick trip to the pharmacy), I had slid all around my road because it was so thick with snow/slush/ice. So, I knew that I’d have to enter my road carefully.

So, I’m on the main road and there’s a woman tailgating me. I know I’m going to have to drop to 5 mph to make the turn onto my very slippery road, so I signal well in advance and slowly slow down my car, so she has plenty of time to react to my slowing down.

And I make the slow turn. 

And she lays on her horn (lays on her horn) and speeds past me.

I glanced through my window like, “What is your problem, lady?” as she flew by.  And as I drove off I said out loud to myself, “What is your problem?” and then said it again, but by the time I got to the word “problem” the second time, I shrieked it in a complete fit of rage. Kinda scared myself.

I just wonder if we’re all on our very last nerves. I haven’t felt truly calm in over 4 years. Every morning, I wake up a little bit scared about what is going to have happened in the world since I fell asleep. Covid deaths, drama in politics, losing friendships and cooling off of family relationships because of different opinions about covid and politics. Sometimes I forget that I didn’t used to feel this weight on me every day, but I sure do nowadays. 

I think a lot of us are carrying around heavy weights we never carried before.

Edited February 5, 2021 by Garga

[4atHome]

Was shopping at walmart with my SIL and my firstborn baby, who was just big enough to be sitting up in the cart (had a cart cover and she was strapped in).  My SIL was standing next to the baby on the side of the cart.  I walked down the aisle to get something and SIL was turned to face me.  A huge thug guy walked up behind my SIL and clapped his hands once, hard and super loud straight above my baby's head.  We were shocked and didn't say anything.  He laughed and walked away.  What was he doing?  Trying to make the baby cry?  She didn't.   Trying to remind us never to turn our backs on a child because some crazy person could break their neck as quickly as that guy walked up and clapped their hands?  Well, that's the lesson it taught me.  I never let my kids wander in stores.   Who knows when an acid attack or something else will happen.  Anyway, I still am shocked and puzzled by that walmart incident,  11 years later.

[Guest]

Ugh, @Garga, I totally feel you on turning into the driveway! I have the same exact thing and I’m turning off a road that people drive on like its the autobahn. I put my turn signal on a long way before so they will get off my tail. Im not crashing on my driveway just because someone can’t slow down for one minute of their life. 

But You make a good point about people just being stressed out in general. 

I hate it when people are road-ragey at me, too. A few weeks ago, some guy got all road-ragey at me in the little main street where I work because there’s a cross street that is hard to see around the huge bushes and you have to pull right up to the intersection before looking. I was stopping, but I guess the other driver just saw the nose of my car and thought I wasn’t stopping. So he honked and waved his hands at me. 🤷🏻‍♀️ I hate that. I wanted to follow him and explain. 

[MercyA]

2 hours ago, Quill said:

@MercyA, I totally LOL’d about turning the paper plate because  I absolutely do that! (Though I’m not from the midwest.) 

Me, too!!! 😁

[Shoeless]

4 hours ago, prairiewindmomma said:

Other regional quirks:

1. Do you greet the checkout clerk?

2. Do you thank the checkout clerk when they hand you your receipt?

3. Are you obligated to empty the cart of trash even if you didn't put it there before returning it to the corral? ie--you inherited a cart with receipt tucked into the frame at the bottom--what do you do?

4. Do you ever aid someone else who is trying to pick out produce?

5. Do you feel guilty for not letting someone with 1-2 items behind you go ahead of you in line when you have a full cart? 

6. Do you make eye contact with strangers in the aisle and smile?

7. Do you small talk with people in line (strangers)?

 

1. Yes

2. Yes. And I thank the bagger.

3. Ick, no. I don't use the carts that have trash in them. 

4. Yes, if they seem like they want the input. 

5. I always offer to let people go ahead of me if they have only a few items.

6. Sometimes. 

7. Yes. 

I have to admit, I didn't do much of the friendly chit-chat in stores when I lived in Chicago. I got into the habit down here in Texas. Before Covid, people would talk to anyone about anything. I once had a 20 minute conversation with a total stranger at Walgreens about the pros and cons of manual transmission vs. the newer cvt transmission vs. traditional transmissions, and I don't even particularly care about car stuff.  🤷‍♀️ 

Edited February 5, 2021 by MissLemon

[TravelingChris]

6 hours ago, prairiewindmomma said:

Fwiw, the crowd that runs at Walmart here is way tougher than the Target crowd. Just FYI. Likewise, Tuesday morning is better than any evening rush hour or Saturdays.

Yep.  And the workers on the floor are rude.  I never go to one anymore unless I am traveling somewhere there id no alternative.

[rebcoola]

Oops, watch yourself.  Sounds just fine to me.  You guys are reminding why I love delivery and pick up so much.

[MercyA]

1 hour ago, Seasider too said:

Yep. Who puts their plate in the trash food side up???!! 😂

Lots of people who aren't as considerate as the ladies here. 😉 

[4atHome]

2 minutes ago, MercyA said:

Lots of people who aren't as considerate as the ladies here. 😉 

I started this as a child to hide what I didn't eat.  But, I don't take mystery food from potlucks so I end up not taking much food in the first place...  too much of a germaphobe. 

Once at my husband's aunt's house for a Thanksgiving buffet, I took what I thought was a modest helping of dressing.  It was oyster slimed bread cubes🤢  So disgusting. There was no way to get it to the trash without people noticing.   We were sitting around the living room not a dinner table.  So, when the opportunity presented, I quickly pushed it onto my then boyfriend's plate.  He would be forgiven for leaving it on the plate, but not me. No one saw me do it.  

[Tanaqui]

She's clearly going through a thing, poor dear, and we can only hope she gets over it quickly. And hopefully far away from you!

[easypeasy]

What a funny thread! lol Regional stuff is so interesting.

When *I've* used "Watch yourself," it is always in a threatening way. In fact, when I was (much) younger & wilder, I said those exact words right before someone didn't "watch themself" and said some more stuff... and I punched them right in the face. 🥴

That's how aggressive I "hear" the phrase "Watch yourself." 😂

If I was in a grocery store, and some lady said "Watch yourself" to me, I'd have turned around expecting a fight. 😂 (Luckily, I've mellowed in my parenting-years, so wouldn't turn around immediately ready to throw a punch... lolol!)

I have used "Watch yourself" with the kids when they were in their back-talking phases. It was meant to sound like a threat (not physical, obviously... but a threat of personal freedoms, nonetheless).

"Watch out!" is much less aggressive to me - like, not even in the same neighborhood.

With all that said - the other lady sounds like she needs a nice, long massage & some chill. I do think Covid has everybody ramped up beyond what was normal. And, man, I miss normal behavior at the grocery store... 😞

Edited February 5, 2021 by easypeasy

[Laura Corin]

I'm sorry you had a difficult encounter @Quill. In that situation around here I  see people just stop and wait for the oblivious person to do their thing. That person usually then notices that they have caused a blockage and says, 'Sorry.' We smile and go on our way.

Edited February 5, 2021 by Laura Corin

[gardenmom5]

6 hours ago, MercyA said:

Reminds me of these:

My sil was at the airport (I don't remember where), and talking with a woman from the south.  The woman was so upset at how rude people were - not something she was used to in the south.  My sil told her if she wanted to be among people as polite as those in the south - she needed to go to Japan.

[Laura Corin]

55 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said:

My sil was at the airport (I don't remember where), and talking with a woman from the south.  The woman was so upset at how rude people were - not something she was used to in the south.  My sil told her if she wanted to be among people as polite as those in the south - she needed to go to Japan.

It's been discussed here before that 'forms of speech' are not always the same as 'politeness'.  A 'polite' form of speech can be barbed, and a more direct manner does not necessarily imply disrespect.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Laura Corin said:

I'm sorry you had a difficult encounter @Quill. In that situation around here I  see people just stop and wait for the oblivious person to do their thing. That person usually then notices that they have caused a blockage and says, 'Sorry.' We smile and go on our way.

Normally, the person who was not noticing themselves does apologize, which is what I also do when I was obliviously in the way. 

Tangent: when I went to Paris for the first time, I was in a small grocery, buying a little tray of roast chicken and potatoes (which btw was so delicious). The line for checkout had three different checkout registers, but only the last one was manned. I mistook the others standing in line to be standing at the other registers, and I cut the line, until an elderly woman said, “Pardon!” Oh my word, I was so embarrassed! I squeaked out an, “Excusez-moi!” And fled to the back of the line. All I could think was, “omg, those people all think I’m just a rude American.” 

[Laura Corin]

3 minutes ago, Quill said:

Normally, the person who was not noticing themselves does apologize, which is what I also do when I was obliviously in the way. 

Tangent: when I went to Paris for the first time, I was in a small grocery, buying a little tray of roast chicken and potatoes (which btw was so delicious). The line for checkout had three different checkout registers, but only the last one was manned. I mistook the others standing in line to be standing at the other registers, and I cut the line, until an elderly woman said, “Pardon!” Oh my word, I was so embarrassed! I squeaked out an, “Excusez-moi!” And fled to the back of the line. All I could think was, “omg, those people all think I’m just a rude American.” 

It can be hard.  There's one supermarket that I used to go to where the space is so tight that only one customer can be standing at the till at a time.  The other customers have to stand back in the aisles to allow for general circulation next to the tills.  That means that the queues are invisible unless you look down the aisles.  People often have to be sent to the back of the queue due to just not realising that others are waiting.

[RootAnn]

Well, I can definitely agree to the regional differences! I'm in the visit-with-everybody-in-the-store area.

12 hours ago, prairiewindmomma said:

And I mean, literally, that someone could run you over in the Midwest, leaving bruises on your foot, and the polite response is, "Excuse me. I'm so sorry. I didn't mean to get in the way."  It's not necessary, but if I were in the small town I grew up in, it is the polite response.

This is very true. The person running you over & the person being run over would be indistinguishable in their word usage other than perhaps the sound of pain in one voice. "Excuse me! I didn't mean to get in your way!"

So sorry @Garga. My mother would have remarked that the woman behind you was probably out of cigarettes & on her way to the store. I think this was her way of providing the person with a chemical excuse for their extreme rudeness & explaining why they were obviously in a hurry.

[cintinative]

13 hours ago, prairiewindmomma said:

Other regional quirks:

1. Do you greet the checkout clerk? yes

2. Do you thank the checkout clerk when they hand you your receipt? yes, and wish them a good day

3. Are you obligated to empty the cart of trash even if you didn't put it there before returning it to the corral? ie--you inherited a cart with receipt tucked into the frame at the bottom--what do you do? Usually I avoid the carts with trash, but sometimes I throw the trash away. 

4. Do you ever aid someone else who is trying to pick out produce? No, because I am not good at picking produce. But I have helped people find produce, and I have asked strangers for help.

5. Do you feel guilty for not letting someone with 1-2 items behind you go ahead of you in line when you have a full cart? I usually invite them to go ahead of me. If they turn me down, I feel bad.

6. Do you make eye contact with strangers in the aisle and smile? Yes, almost always.

7. Do you small talk with people in line (strangers)? Less so during COVID but yes.

 

 

Edited February 5, 2021 by cintinative

[vonfirmath]

14 hours ago, SKL said:

"Watch yourself" is what my mom used to say as a warning before a discipline whack.

So that is probably why she didn't take your comment well.

Agreed. I'm not sure what my first reaction would be to "Watch yourself" either. (And if I saw someone backing up I'd figure they didn't see ME and I'd stop and wait for them.) But I wouldn't still be complaining about it several aisles later. Life's too short.

Edited February 5, 2021 by vonfirmath

[Arctic Bunny]

13 hours ago, prairiewindmomma said:

Other regional quirks:

1. Do you greet the checkout clerk?

2. Do you thank the checkout clerk when they hand you your receipt?

3. Are you obligated to empty the cart of trash even if you didn't put it there before returning it to the corral? ie--you inherited a cart with receipt tucked into the frame at the bottom--what do you do?

4. Do you ever aid someone else who is trying to pick out produce?

5. Do you feel guilty for not letting someone with 1-2 items behind you go ahead of you in line when you have a full cart? 

6. Do you make eye contact with strangers in the aisle and smile?

7. Do you small talk with people in line (strangers)?

 

Well, of course!

[Not_a_Number]

13 hours ago, prairiewindmomma said:

Other regional quirks:

1. Do you greet the checkout clerk?

2. Do you thank the checkout clerk when they hand you your receipt?

3. Are you obligated to empty the cart of trash even if you didn't put it there before returning it to the corral? ie--you inherited a cart with receipt tucked into the frame at the bottom--what do you do?

4. Do you ever aid someone else who is trying to pick out produce?

5. Do you feel guilty for not letting someone with 1-2 items behind you go ahead of you in line when you have a full cart? 

6. Do you make eye contact with strangers in the aisle and smile?

7. Do you small talk with people in line (strangers)?

 

Errrr. It’s been a year since I’ve been in a store. I’m realizing I’m not sure how to answer these questions!!

[hippymamato3]

I am likely extreme, but I'd almost take "watch yourself" as a threat. Seriously. The more I thought about it last night, the more the words make me uncomfortable. (I do have PTSD...DV survivor...but it's interesting how words can really be interpreted and felt differently by different people.) 

[OH_Homeschooler]

When things like this occur, I try to remember the wise words of my high school driver's ed teacher.

Paraphrase: People can get all mad and ragey at you about the smallest things and not let it go, but they're the ones who are miserable and will probably die early of a heart attack. 

So there's that.

 

[marbel]

People everywhere are nuts, and getting worse.  People are touchy and more apt to take offense. I assume Covid is a part of it, maybe all of it, but there has been a shift in the way people treat each other. I see it a lot, working in (phone) customer service and with a kid in retail. People are horrible. 

[alisoncooks]

7 hours ago, Laura Corin said:

I'm sorry you had a difficult encounter @Quill. In that situation around here I  see people just stop and wait for the oblivious person to do their thing. That person usually then notices that they have caused a blockage and says, 'Sorry.' We smile and go on our way.

This is the response I often see. I mean, I'd be MENTALLY rolling my eyes, so hard, at their obliviousness...but I'd just smile and wait. Or if in imminent danger of being backed into, probably a "Whoops. Excuse me." 

[alisoncooks]

Also, in my neck of the woods, "watch yourself" is nearly *always* preceded with a "you better"...;)

[Library Momma]

15 hours ago, prairiewindmomma said:

Other regional quirks:

1. Do you greet the checkout clerk?

2. Do you thank the checkout clerk when they hand you your receipt?

3. Are you obligated to empty the cart of trash even if you didn't put it there before returning it to the corral? ie--you inherited a cart with receipt tucked into the frame at the bottom--what do you do?

4. Do you ever aid someone else who is trying to pick out produce?

5. Do you feel guilty for not letting someone with 1-2 items behind you go ahead of you in line when you have a full cart? 

6. Do you make eye contact with strangers in the aisle and smile?

7. Do you small talk with people in line (strangers)?

 

I would answer yes to all of these things and I would let the person with a few items ahead of me on line.  I also am often reaching items on high shelves for people because I am fairly tall.  But,  if some one said "watch yourself" to me I would probably  be annoyed.  To me that is rude.  It would be one thing if I was about to step in a puddle I didn't see and could slip(where people here would say "watch out")  But you are both headed towards each other.  You can control your actions but are telling her to control hers.  People don't like to be told what to do by strangers.

[alisoncooks]

Also, side note:

I'm going crazy over the use of incivil vs. uncivil, lol. Is there a distinction between the two?

[domestic_engineer]

I’m curious for those of you who use “watch yourself” in a non-threatening way .... when a threat is quickly approaching a person (say a baseball or a car ) do you still yell out “watch yourself” or do you use “watch out”?

.... and am I the only one who told their kids to “watch themselves” (because tempers were rising) while reading this thread?!?  

(for the record, I guess I use “watch out” in most scenarios, especially those that involve accidents. But I use “watch yourself” when I want my kids to do some introspection and self-examination.)

[marbel]

9 minutes ago, domestic_engineer said:

I’m curious for those of you who use “watch yourself” in a non-threatening way .... when a threat is quickly approaching a person (say a baseball or a car ) do you still yell out “watch yourself” or do you use “watch out”?

.... and am I the only one who told their kids to “watch themselves” (because tempers were rising) while reading this thread?!?  

(for the record, I guess I use “watch out” in most scenarios, especially those that involve accidents. But I use “watch yourself” when I want my kids to do some introspection and self-examination.)

Both "watch out" and "watch yourself" are neutral to me and mean pretty much the same thing. I am unlikely to be offended by either in the context of a grocery store encounter; it would depend on tone of voice and what else was going on. I can't imagine Quill saying it in an offensive or threatening way (but then I've never heard her voice).

But it drives me insane when people back up in a grocery store. I spent years reminding my kids not to back up. Of course I catch myself doing it and apologize to those around me whom I've inconvenienced. I can't imagine getting angry at a person who called my attention to it. 

Keep to the right, don't back up. It's not that hard. Well, until it is.

[SKL]

2 hours ago, domestic_engineer said:

I’m curious for those of you who use “watch yourself” in a non-threatening way .... when a threat is quickly approaching a person (say a baseball or a car ) do you still yell out “watch yourself” or do you use “watch out”?

.... and am I the only one who told their kids to “watch themselves” (because tempers were rising) while reading this thread?!?  

(for the record, I guess I use “watch out” in most scenarios, especially those that involve accidents. But I use “watch yourself” when I want my kids to do some introspection and self-examination.)

I often say just "watch."  I am not a particularly articulate person in face-to-face situations, especially when I need to think fast.  I might say "watch watch ... watch out."  "Look out" would also work.

In the OP situation, if I understand it correctly, I don't think I would have said anything at all.  I would have just quietly waited at a distance.  And if someone was gonna back into my cart because I couldn't get out of the way, I'd probably just let them do it.  It's not my fault they aren't looking where they are going.  What's the worst that could happen?

[Spryte]

I think my DH is from the same general area as OP, or very close.  “Watch yourself” is a thing, and not rude in DH’s family, too.  No negative connotations.  It’s more, “Hey, that chair you’re standing on is about to tip over!  Be careful!”  
 

That said, I’d never heard it before, and my standard response is, “Give me a mirror!” 

Edited February 5, 2021 by Spryte

[Guest]

46 minutes ago, SKL said:

I often say just "watch."  I am not a particularly articulate person in face-to-face situations, especially when I need to think fast.  I might say "watch watch ... watch out."  "Look out" would also work.

In the OP situation, if I understand it correctly, I don't think I would have said anything at all.  I would have just quietly waited at a distance.  And if someone was gonna back into my cart because I couldn't get out of the way, I'd probably just let them do it.  It's not my fault they aren't looking where they are going.  What's the worst that could happen?

I imagine she would have perceived that as, “This lady at Walmart just ran up on my ass with the shopping cart! She didn’t even say a word!” 

[kbutton]

8 hours ago, cintinative said:

 

You live in the same general region as me--do the people in line think it's odd when you chat them up? They do here. My parents come to visit, and they chat everyone up, which cracks me up. When I go home, I love it when people chat me up, but I am definitely not used to it anymore! 

5 hours ago, marbel said:

But it drives me insane when people back up in a grocery store. I spent years reminding my kids not to back up. Of course I catch myself doing it and apologize to those around me whom I've inconvenienced. I can't imagine getting angry at a person who called my attention to it. 

Keep to the right, don't back up. It's not that hard. Well, until it is.

We tell our kids they won't get keys to the car until they can stop backing up without looking. My older one is good now, but my younger might be on his own and having to hire out driving lessons from someone else, lol!

Regarding the bolded, yes, lol! My dilemma--when you need something on the left, do you leave your cart on the right, or do you drive down the "wrong" side of the aisle? Do you stand back and look so people can pass you on the "correct" side while you browse, or do you cross over? No matter which approach I take, I am Doing It Wrong--someone will come down the aisle expecting me to have done the opposite of whatever I'm doing. I feel like I used to know but that this has changed over time. 

[hippymamato3]

3 hours ago, Quill said:

I imagine she would have perceived that as, “This lady at Walmart just ran up on my ass with the shopping cart! She didn’t even say a word!” 

I really think she was taken aback at your "watch yourself" comment and it really bothered her.

[annandatje]

As a person who sometimes has trouble interpreting tone of voice, I tend to listen closely and focus on words.  The words "watch out" or "watch yourself" would not seem friendly to me since I probably would not recognize the cheeriness in your voice.  I know you didn't ask but what I say in those situations is usually something like "oops we almost had a collision."   As for her complaining about it to her companion, well, that is unnecessary and whiny in my opinion.

[Not_a_Number]

1 hour ago, kbutton said:

You live in the same general region as me--do the people in line think it's odd when you chat them up? They do here. My parents come to visit, and they chat everyone up, which cracks me up. When I go home, I love it when people chat me up, but I am definitely not used to it anymore! 

Oooh, I'd love to hear where in America you aren't supposed to chat people up. Is that a general Midwest thing? 

We were in Minneapolis for an academic trip a while back (DD8 was small, so it was a long time ago), and I realized I had no clue how I was supposed to behave in public. People were REALLY not interested in chatting to people they didn't know, and since I didn't know anyone at all, DH was at work, and DD8 was pre-verbal, this made for a pretty lonely trip. I kept trying to chat people up at playgrounds, and I'd constantly get rebuffed. I should have probably stopped trying, but I was kind of gobsmacked that this wasn't something people did and kept thinking that I must be misinterpreting... 

[Danae]

5 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

Oooh, I'd love to hear where in America you aren't supposed to chat people up. Is that a general Midwest thing? 

We were in Minneapolis for an academic trip a while back (DD8 was small, so it was a long time ago), and I realized I had no clue how I was supposed to behave in public. People were REALLY not interested in chatting to people they didn't know, and since I didn't know anyone at all, DH was at work, and DD8 was pre-verbal, this made for a pretty lonely trip. I kept trying to chat people up at playgrounds, and I'd constantly get rebuffed. I should have probably stopped trying, but I was kind of gobsmacked that this wasn't something people did and kept thinking that I must be misinterpreting... 

 

It's a complicated dance of signaling whether you're open to conversation.  You can't just jump right in. 

Or, paradoxically, you probably could have gotten away with saying outright "we're in town for my husband's work trip and I'm starved for adult conversation, are you up for a chat?"  Then people would have understood why you were being such a weirdo as to talk to strangers at the playground.  

[Not_a_Number]

1 minute ago, Danae said:

It's a complicated dance of signaling whether you're open to conversation.  You can't just jump right in. 

Or, paradoxically, you probably could have gotten away with saying outright "we're in town for my husband's work trip and I'm starved for adult conversation, are you up for a chat?"  Then people would have understood why you were being such a weirdo as to talk to strangers at the playground.  

I have to admit, I was hoping you'd chime in, since I knew you were from around there. 

See, everywhere else I've lived you can just talk to someone!! They don't think it's weird. Minneapolis is the only place I've been where it was clear that it was a complicated dance to which I didn't know a single move. 

And I've tried this in Toronto, NYC, Boston, Texas, and California (both SF and LA.) So I have a decent sample of places!! 

Even in Ukraine, where people are generally much ruder than in the US, you can just talk to people 😛 . Oh, and it was fine in Germany, when we were there in the summer. It was even fine in Copenhagen. 

[Danae]

6 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

I have to admit, I was hoping you'd chime in, since I knew you were from around there. 

See, everywhere else I've lived you can just talk to someone!! They don't think it's weird. Minneapolis is the only place I've been where it was clear that it was a complicated dance to which I didn't know a single move. 

And I've tried this in Toronto, NYC, Boston, Texas, and California (both SF and LA.) So I have a decent sample of places!! 

Even in Ukraine, where people are generally much ruder than in the US, you can just talk to people 😛 . Oh, and it was fine in Germany, when we were there in the summer. It was even fine in Copenhagen. 

I mean, if you'd used the "from out of town and bored" line and then made it through a short conversation without bringing up a MLM pitch there's a good chance you'd have been invited over for coffee or on an outing for the next day.  We're very hospitable people, we just get discomfited if we don't know why someone is talking to us.

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, Danae said:

I mean, if you'd used the "from out of town and bored" line and then made it through a short conversation without bringing up a MLM pitch there's a good chance you'd have been invited over for coffee or on an outing for the next day.  We're very hospitable people, we just get discomfited if we don't know why someone is talking to us.

I think I said the "out of town" bit eventually, but maybe people were standoffish enough that I didn't get to the "bored" bit? 😉 I'm pretty sure people had written me off as a weirdo and weren't going to be talking to people this weird for longer than they had to.

I didn't really resent it, although DH did, lol. He had very similar experiences -- he talked to someone at a bus stop, and she started taking a different bus 😛 . He wasn't hitting on her, just being what to him seemed like friendly in a normal way. We just clearly had no clue how to do this. I think that seemed less weird to me than to him -- I've lived in different enough cultures that I know that they all have codes. But I think he found it super discomfiting. 

[RootAnn]

38 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

Oooh, I'd love to hear where in America you aren't supposed to chat people up. Is that a general Midwest thing? 

I think of myself living in the Midwest but apparently I live in one of the "Plains States." We always chat each other up everywhere -- perfect strangers or neighbors.

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, RootAnn said:

I think of myself living in the Midwest but apparently I live in one of the "Plains States." We always chat each other up everywhere -- perfect strangers or neighbors.

I know the Northeast has a reputation for being curt, but Boston has been the only place I've ever been where I got invited to other stuff after meeting them that day, and not once but twice. People aren't necessarily friendly in public, but I've found them easy to chat up here. 

DH also said that the South lived up to its reputation for friendliness when he was there. I think he was maybe in Atlanta, and he said totally random people invited him to their house in a way he hadn't generally experienced anywhere else in the US. 

[kbutton]

1 hour ago, Not_a_Number said:

Oooh, I'd love to hear where in America you aren't supposed to chat people up. Is that a general Midwest thing? 

We were in Minneapolis for an academic trip a while back (DD8 was small, so it was a long time ago), and I realized I had no clue how I was supposed to behave in public. People were REALLY not interested in chatting to people they didn't know, and since I didn't know anyone at all, DH was at work, and DD8 was pre-verbal, this made for a pretty lonely trip. I kept trying to chat people up at playgrounds, and I'd constantly get rebuffed. I should have probably stopped trying, but I was kind of gobsmacked that this wasn't something people did and kept thinking that I must be misinterpreting... 

I think people in Ohio are generally pretty closed about public conversation. Even in places meant for socializing and connecting (small and large conferences for networking, church groups, gifted enrichment classes with parent networking) people are kind of closed. I am from PA, and DH is from CA. The talking to people in public thing is fine in PA and CA. I hear KY is better—just an hour south across the river.

I can’t tell you how many times I’ve tried to explain to people in the Midwest that they are not particularly inviting and friendly (but are polite), they don’t get it. Finally, a friend experienced a friendly drive by comment while on vacation. He was apparently flummoxed by the encounter (which he thought was some kind of weird person hitting on him weirdly) until he thought, “This is what button has told me about.” That’s really about the only time someone born and bred in Ohio has understood this concept when I’ve talked about it, lol. Meanwhile in PA, people are chatty but not terribly concerned about being polite. 

Sadly, I feel like Ohio is socializing friendly right out of me. 

51 minutes ago, Danae said:

I mean, if you'd used the "from out of town and bored" line and then made it through a short conversation without bringing up a MLM pitch there's a good chance you'd have been invited over for coffee or on an outing for the next day.  We're very hospitable people, we just get discomfited if we don't know why someone is talking to us.

Here, it’s outright suspicion with a dose of minor hostility.

I will say that I didn’t feel this way at work though in any of my jobs while living here. Apparently it’s okay to talk at work. My best job ever was with curious and interesting people who could always find something to talk about, and it was a mix of locals and transplants.

[Not_a_Number]

2 minutes ago, kbutton said:

I can’t tell you how many times I’ve tried to explain to people in the Midwest that they are not particularly inviting and friendly (but are polite), they don’t get it. Finally, a friend experienced a friendly drive by comment while on vacation. He was apparently flummoxed by the encounter (which he thought was some kind of weird person hitting on him weirdly) until he thought, “This is what button has told me about.” That’s really about the only time someone born and bred in Ohio has understood this concept when I’ve talked about it, lol. Meanwhile in PA, people are chatty but not terribly concerned about being polite. 

Yesssss. Yessssss. That's exactly it. They were not friendly or inviting. However, they were extremely polite. They were so polite that my Ukraine-bred, Toronto-raised, California-educated self couldn't possibly match it. But they also thought I was a ridiculously overfriendly weirdo. 

And hah, I know just what you mean about friendliness being interpreted as "being hit on." That was totally how DH's friendliness was interpreted our whole time in Minneapolis. He never got used to it. 

[Not_a_Number]

6 minutes ago, kbutton said:

I will say that I didn’t feel this way at work though in any of my jobs while living here. Apparently it’s okay to talk at work.

It was also apparently OK to talk at library meetups in Minneapolis. I had a (to me) bizarre experience of being ignored by two women with babies at a coffee shop, who then were perfectly lovely and friendly when we all came over to the same baby storytime.