The Vaccine Thread

[kbutton]

Does anyone know the timeline for possible Moderna boosters? Is it in process at all? DH is the only one in our home that had Moderna, but he is a frontline HCW and got his early.

[Dmmetler]

Walmart is now scheduling boosters. (I have an appointment for tomorrow morning). Walgreens says they will start scheduling tomorrow. 

[Longtime Lurker]

5 hours ago, mommyoffive said:

Biden Urges Those Eligible for a Pfizer Booster to Get One Soon (msn.com)

I went right after work and got my third Pfizer! I am so psyched! I wanted to get it before they changed their minds again 🙂 

So what is the current thinking on Tylenol use post-vax? After my second Pfizer, I had a splitting headache starting at the 27 hour mark, but I toughed it out because I was hearing that acetaminophen could dampen the immune response. That was back in February. I think later on I heard that it was okay to take it after the shot, just not before??

[Terabith]

12 minutes ago, Longtime Lurker said:

I went right after work and got my third Pfizer! I am so psyched! I wanted to get it before they changed their minds again 🙂 

So what is the current thinking on Tylenol use post-vax? After my second Pfizer, I had a splitting headache starting at the 27 hour mark, but I toughed it out because I was hearing that acetaminophen could dampen the immune response. That was back in February. I think later on I heard that it was okay to take it after the shot, just not before??

I think the guidance is it's fine but wait four hours post shot.  

[Longtime Lurker]

3 minutes ago, Terabith said:

I think the guidance is it's fine but wait four hours post shot.  

Thanks!

[lynn]

I'm confused Biden said (I don't know where I saw him talking about this, sorry) people who had Pfizer and are at risk (65 and older, diabetes, obese and essential workers (health care and teachers) are eligible for booster after 6 months of second vaccine.  What about the others if one had the other vaccines? Can they still get Pfizer booster?  

[Corraleno]

2 hours ago, lynn said:

I'm confused Biden said (I don't know where I saw him talking about this, sorry) people who had Pfizer and are at risk (65 and older, diabetes, obese and essential workers (health care and teachers) are eligible for booster after 6 months of second vaccine.  What about the others if one had the other vaccines? Can they still get Pfizer booster?  

Yes and no. The EUA for Pfizer boosters is strictly limited to those who have had Pfizer. But it is also legal for doctors to prescribe Pfizer off label, so if you can find a doctor who will do it off label you can get one. It may be more difficult to get it from a Walgreens or CVS or whatever if they want to see proof of your previous vaccines. If you already had Moderna, I'd probably wait and see if Moderna boosters are approved in the next month or so. Moderna seems to last longer anyway — which raises an interesting question of whether they will just approve all boosters at 6 months for the sake of consistency, or follow the data and possibly use a longer interval for Moderna.

I don't know what's going on with J&J or why they've sat on the data so long — they ran 1 & 2 shot trials in tandem and I suspect they have known for a long time that 2 doses were more effective. Maybe they were just waiting until the mRNA vaccines required boosters, so they could keep the "one & done" marketing angle as long as possible. Although it does look like there will now be boosters for J&J, to be honest if I'd had J&J I would get an mRNA vax for the second shot instead of another J&J. In the UK they found that AZ + Pfizer was more effective than two shots of AZ, and I would imagine J&J would be similar since they are both adenovirus vaccines.

Edited September 25, 2021 by Corraleno
typos

[lynn]

15 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

Yes and no. The EUA for Pfizer boosters is strictly limited to those who have had Pfizer. But it is also legal for doctors to prescribe Pfizer off label, so if you can find a doctor who will do it off label you can get one. It may be more difficult to get it from a Walgreens or CVS or whatever if they want to see proof of your previous vaccines. If you already had Moderna, I'd probably wait and see if Moderna boosters are approved in the next month or so. Moderna seems to last longer anyway — which raises an interesting question of whether they will just approve all boosters at 6 months for the sake of consistency, or follow the data and possibly use a longe interval for Moderna.

I don't know what's going on with J&J or why have have sat on the data so long — they ran 1 & 2 shot trials in tandem and I suspect they have known for a long time that 2 doses were more effective. Maybe they were just waiting until the mRNA vaccines required boosters, so they could keep the "one & done" marketing angle as long as possible. Although it does look like there will now be boosters for J&J, to be honest if I'd had J&J I would get an mRNA vax for the second shot instead of another J&J. In the UK they found that AZ + Pfizer was more effective than two shots of AZ, and I would imagine J&J would be similar since they are both adenovirus vaccines.

Thank you.  I try to keep up with it all but information and studies seem to change daily.     

[Spy Car]

4 hours ago, Longtime Lurker said:

I went right after work and got my third Pfizer! I am so psyched! I wanted to get it before they changed their minds again 🙂 

So what is the current thinking on Tylenol use post-vax? After my second Pfizer, I had a splitting headache starting at the 27 hour mark, but I toughed it out because I was hearing that acetaminophen could dampen the immune response. That was back in February. I think later on I heard that it was okay to take it after the shot, just not before??

Yippie!!! 

Do hydrate well.

I tend to be a grunt it out, don't mess with the process type--but that's not an informed choice necessarily.

Anyway, great news. Congrats!

Bill

 

 

[Longtime Lurker]

6 minutes ago, Spy Car said:

Yippie!!! 

Do hydrate well.

I tend to be a grunt it out, don't mess with the process type--but that's not an informed choice necessarily.

Anyway, great news. Congrats!

Bill

 

 

I've been sipping water all afternoon, so doing well with the hydrating 🙂 I'm 5.5 hours out and haven't needed to take anything yet. My arm is sore but I can handle that no problem. If the headache tomorrow is as bad as last time, I will probably take some acetaminophen at that point. It was pretty awful last time, but only lasted a few hours. By the second morning, I felt normal again. So we'll see...

[KSera]

10 hours ago, kbutton said:

Does anyone know the timeline for possible Moderna boosters? Is it in process at all? DH is the only one in our home that had Moderna, but he is a frontline HCW and got his early.

I've heard it could be a few days to a few weeks. I would be shocked for it to be a few days. I'm not hearing that anything is imminent, and we knew Pfizer was coming for a couple weeks before it finally happened.

[Laura Corin]

BBC News - Margaret Keenan: First UK person to get the Pfizer jab gets booster
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-coventry-warwickshire-58680014

[Soror]

My county health department just put out a release they can only do boosters for the immune compromised until they hear from the state. 

[Pawz4me]

27 minutes ago, Soror said:

My county health department just put out a release they can only do boosters for the immune compromised until they hear from the state. 

I encountered something similar to this when I went to our county health department to get the third dose recommended for immune compromised people. They said they couldn't give them until they got the order from their health director. I don't know if that meant somebody at the county level or the state. In any event--they started giving them a few days later. But less than an hour after the health department told me that I got one at Walgreens.

[Starr]

It took a while for the information to go through the channels for our drug stores to offer the boosters. Can you call around and see if you can get it somewhere else? Otherwise hopefully it will be good to go next week. 

[mommyoffive]

Changes in booster shot guidance leads to confusion, chaos for doctors and the vaccinated (msn.com)

[wathe]

"An inaccurate Canadian study suggesting an extremely high rate of heart inflammation after COVID-19 vaccines has been retracted due to a major mathematical error — but not before it spread like wildfire on anti-vaccination websites and social media"

Preprint (not peer reviewed) got the denominator wrong, and quoted a vaccine myocarditis risk of 1 in 1000 instead of 1 in 25 000.  

I think this study might have been discussed on this thread a few pages back?

ETA: I love the term "zombie paper" for discredited papers that continue to circulate despite retraction.

ETA: Retraction statement by the authors

 

Edited September 25, 2021 by wathe

[Happy2BaMom]

50 minutes ago, wathe said:

"An inaccurate Canadian study suggesting an extremely high rate of heart inflammation after COVID-19 vaccines has been retracted due to a major mathematical error — but not before it spread like wildfire on anti-vaccination websites and social media"

Preprint (not peer reviewed) got the denominator wrong, and quoted a vaccine myocarditis risk of 1 in 1000 instead of 1 in 25 000.  

I think this study might have been discussed on this thread a few pages back?

ETA: I love the term "zombie paper" for discredited papers that continue to circulate despite retraction.

ETA: Retraction statement by the authors

 

No words.

Can't count the # of times I've heard/seen this study flaunted about as a reason to avoid vaccination.

 

[Dmmetler]

I just got my booster at Walmart. The paperwork is vague enough to qualify almost anyone, it seems (high risk due to being over 65, health conditions, occupation, or living in a congregate setting)-but from what the pharmacist said, I actually qualify under the prior requirements as well due to my autoimmune disorders. 
 

I will say I was impressed at how active Walmart was being-they have their shot clinic set up right inside the door with a pharmacy tech to help with paperwork and a pharmacist giving shots (which also means that ventilation is really good) and the greeters are directing people to get COVID and flu shots, and generally it was both very easy and very encouraged. I was kind of dreading having to go through the store-I only signed up there because it was the only place that I could get an appointment for a booster for this morning, so I have a decent interval for side effects to pass before going to work Monday afternoon. 
 

The pharmacist also strongly encouraged me to come back in a month for pneumonia and shingles-I’m just under 50, but with my health history, she said that it should be covered by insurance and is recommended. 

[Corraleno]

48 minutes ago, wathe said:

"An inaccurate Canadian study suggesting an extremely high rate of heart inflammation after COVID-19 vaccines has been retracted due to a major mathematical error — but not before it spread like wildfire on anti-vaccination websites and social media"

Preprint (not peer reviewed) got the denominator wrong, and quoted a vaccine myocarditis risk of 1 in 1000 instead of 1 in 25 000.  

I think this study might have been discussed on this thread a few pages back?

ETA: I love the term "zombie paper" for discredited papers that continue to circulate despite retraction.

ETA: Retraction statement by the authors

 

I know this was a preprint and hadn't been peer reviewed, but how in the world did they miss the difference between 32,000 and 800,000??? This preprint has caused so much damage — and even though it's been retracted, antivaxers will keep referencing it and claiming it was "suppressed" by government and Big Pharma. <smdh>

[Roadrunner]

I hear Moderna has a combined Covid/flu vaccine in the making. Anybody knows of a timeframe when it might be available? 

[kokotg]

2 hours ago, wathe said:

"An inaccurate Canadian study suggesting an extremely high rate of heart inflammation after COVID-19 vaccines has been retracted due to a major mathematical error — but not before it spread like wildfire on anti-vaccination websites and social media"

Preprint (not peer reviewed) got the denominator wrong, and quoted a vaccine myocarditis risk of 1 in 1000 instead of 1 in 25 000.  

 

 

After the past year and a half, I think maybe we need to rethink the standard high school math sequence to include an entire year just covering denominators.

[Corraleno]

1 hour ago, Roadrunner said:

I hear Moderna has a combined Covid/flu vaccine in the making. Anybody knows of a timeframe when it might be available? 

I doubt that will be available before next fall at the earliest, they are planning to test it "over the next 6-12 months." They also have an RSV vaccine in development and are hoping to eventually market a single shot that would cover flu, RSV, and a covid booster. 

[Happy2BaMom]

2 hours ago, Corraleno said:

I know this was a preprint and hadn't been peer reviewed, but how in the world did they miss the difference between 32,000 and 800,000??? This preprint has caused so much damage — and even though it's been retracted, antivaxers will keep referencing it and claiming it was "suppressed" by government and Big Pharma. <smdh>

That is such an enormous (& obvious) error, and there are so many names on that paper (more people supposedly reviewing it), that I really am wondering if it was malicious. You know, put the paper out there, then, umpteen months later...."oops, so sorry".

FO. I hope it damages their careers.

[wathe]

National Post article with more details.

It looks like they pulled their denominator from a public database.  And either pulled the wrong number, or pulled the number before the data on the database were complete.

They didn't do the math wrong so much as use the wrong numbers to do the math.

I don't think this was malicious.  I think is was an honest mistake.  The authors did state that their finding was surprising, "That our data should suggest a tenfold higher incidence seems surprising" and put in all the usual disclaimers for preliminary work.

This sort of thing is what the preprint process is for, really.  For scientists to share data in fast-moving fields, to critically appraise each other's work, and to catch mistakes before formal publication.  

 I'm pretty sure that the authors are a bunch of cardiologists, not public health or epidemiology folks.  The denominator they used (tens of thousands, instead of hundreds of thousands) might not have felt obviously wrong to them the way it would to the public health and epidemiology.  It may have seemed like an appropriately big number.

Don't get me wrong; it's a big mistake that should have been obvious to the authors. But is was an error, not the willful spreading of misinformation.  

 

[mommyoffive]

5 hours ago, Dmmetler said:

I just got my booster at Walmart. The paperwork is vague enough to qualify almost anyone, it seems (high risk due to being over 65, health conditions, occupation, or living in a congregate setting)-but from what the pharmacist said, I actually qualify under the prior requirements as well due to my autoimmune disorders. 
 

I will say I was impressed at how active Walmart was being-they have their shot clinic set up right inside the door with a pharmacy tech to help with paperwork and a pharmacist giving shots (which also means that ventilation is really good) and the greeters are directing people to get COVID and flu shots, and generally it was both very easy and very encouraged. I was kind of dreading having to go through the store-I only signed up there because it was the only place that I could get an appointment for a booster for this morning, so I have a decent interval for side effects to pass before going to work Monday afternoon. 
 

The pharmacist also strongly encouraged me to come back in a month for pneumonia and shingles-I’m just under 50, but with my health history, she said that it should be covered by insurance and is recommended. 

Hmmm.  I really don't know what to do booster/3rd shot.  I am wondering if I would qualify for a 3rd shot.  I am only 5 months out from my 2nd shot and it was Moderna.  

[Starr]

I got my booster shot today. The pharmacist has already had to throw vaccine away because people didn't show up that had made online appointments. She also said there is no way to keep up locally with boosters. You can't keep up with the early mass vaccinations clinics.

[Jaybee]

14 minutes ago, mommyoffive said:

Hmmm.  I really don't know what to do booster/3rd shot.  I am wondering if I would qualify for a 3rd shot.  I am only 5 months out from my 2nd shot and it was Moderna.  

From what I understand, you don't need one yet, especially with Moderna. Probably by the time you need one, they will have more information out about it.

[Mom_to3]

1 hour ago, mommyoffive said:

Hmmm.  I really don't know what to do booster/3rd shot.  I am wondering if I would qualify for a 3rd shot.  I am only 5 months out from my 2nd shot and it was Moderna.  

I am in the same situation (except 5.5 months out) - and think I am going to wait a bit longer. I am concerned that getting it too early may actually dampen the immune/antibody response (I mentioned in an earlier thread that the flu vaccine is actually more effective in preventing flu when it was given the year prior; I am not sure they know exactly why - at least it wasn't explained in the paper I read; also, remember that they don't advise getting the vaccine until 90 days after monoclonal antibodies). If there is a situation where I have to expose myself frequently in an iffy situation, like a dental issue requiring root canals and crown etc., I will get it early. Will also get it before the holiday season no matter what they decide to do. And I maintain my right to change whatever I do at any time for any reason.

[KSera]

12 minutes ago, Mom_to3 said:

I am in the same situation (except 5.5 months out) - and think I am going to wait a bit longer. I am concerned that getting it too early may actually dampen the immune/antibody response (I mentioned in an earlier thread that the flu vaccine is actually more effective in preventing flu when it was given the year prior; I am not sure they know exactly why - at least it wasn't explained in the paper I read; also, remember that they don't advise getting the vaccine until 90 days after monoclonal antibodies). If there is a situation where I have to expose myself frequently in an iffy situation, like a dental issue requiring root canals and crown etc., I will get it early. Will also get it before the holiday season no matter what they decide to do. And I maintain my right to change whatever I do at any time for any reason.

You make some good points. I will use them to make my mom feel better about the fact that I am waiting a little longer for my booster. I had Moderna and would like to wait and see what happens with their booster and not try to go around the rules to get a Pfizer.  I’m feeling okay about it right now anyway, but I’m only four months out from my second shot (and Moderna, as I said). I will keep the idea of getting one before having dental work, though. I might not be able to wait as long as I’d like to have a tooth looked at, and that might make me feel better if it’s a month or more away. And lol at your last line. Me too. 

[melmichigan]

6 hours ago, Roadrunner said:

I hear Moderna has a combined Covid/flu vaccine in the making. Anybody knows of a timeframe when it might be available? 

I hope they keep the separate shots.  I always have side effects from even the flu shot, and after everything with Moderna I would be scared to see what a mess that would make of my immune response.

DH received his booster last night at 7.5 months from his first.  I was not waiting another minute in our community.  A co-worker lost his father to a breakthrough case this week. 

[KSera]

48 minutes ago, melmichigan said:

 A co-worker lost his father to a breakthrough case this week.

That scares me. I want my parents to get boosted as soon as possible. That would be so upsetting, especially with how hard they have worked to avoid it.

[whitestavern]

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/federal-judge-deals-blow-covid-19-vaccine-mandate-nyc-teachers-n1280097

 

[YaelAldrich]

Got me and the DH appointments after the last set of Jewish holidays next Monday through Wednesday night (Shemini Atzeres and Simchat Torah for all those playing What Jewish Holiday Is It Now?). I'll bring my letter stating I do congregant care work and he'll bring his faculty ID. Flu shots as well. Never got mine this early before.

 

[Longtime Lurker]

12 hours ago, melmichigan said:

DH received his booster last night at 7.5 months from his first.  I was not waiting another minute in our community.  A co-worker lost his father to a breakthrough case this week. 

I am also already 7.5 months out so I got the booster immediately after approval. I work in a masks-optional school.

I do think I wouldn't have wanted to get it before 6 months even if it was allowed as I want to maximize immunity through the winter.

[Dmmetler]

Here, teachers were all first eligible in late Feb, and the clinics for teachers did Pfizer so there are a bunch of us who were eligible as soon as they opened boosters. I wanted to get mine Sat AM so I would hopefully be past the worst of side effects by Monday, although so far, it’s mostly muscle aches and fatigue. I think hospitals, etc, are boosting HCW at work.

[Roadrunner]

I wish they would let us mix vaccines. There is some evidence for it. 
how much longer do we wait on Moderna? 

[Corraleno]

Paper published in Science on primate experiments with Moderna explains why protection against severe disease lasts longer that protection against infection: you need higher levels of antibodies to fight off upper respiratory infection, but lower levels are still effective against lower respiratory infection and severe lung disease.

"mRNA-1273 vaccine–induced antibody responses are a mechanistic correlate of protection against SARS-CoV-2 infection in NHPs [non-human primates]. Protection in the lower respiratory tract was achieved at lower serum antibody concentrations than in the upper respiratory tract. These data explain in part the consistent finding that vaccine efficacy against severe lower tract disease is greater than that against mild upper tract disease. These findings have potential implications for how additional boosting may sustain protection against severe disease in the lower respiratory tract and limit mild infection and transmission by enhancing the immunity required in the upper respiratory tract."

https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abj0299

[BeachGal]

35 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

Paper published in Science on primate experiments with Moderna explains why protection against severe disease lasts longer that protection against infection: you need higher levels of antibodies to fight off upper respiratory infection, but lower levels are still effective against lower respiratory infection and severe lung disease.

"mRNA-1273 vaccine–induced antibody responses are a mechanistic correlate of protection against SARS-CoV-2 infection in NHPs [non-human primates]. Protection in the lower respiratory tract was achieved at lower serum antibody concentrations than in the upper respiratory tract. These data explain in part the consistent finding that vaccine efficacy against severe lower tract disease is greater than that against mild upper tract disease. These findings have potential implications for how additional boosting may sustain protection against severe disease in the lower respiratory tract and limit mild infection and transmission by enhancing the immunity required in the upper respiratory tract."

https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abj0299

I thought IgA (mucosal antibodies) wane much faster than IgG and that IgA drops considerably after 100 days (pretty sure there’s a paper about this). This would explain why a fully vaccinated person could have a breakthrough case. The particular antibodies in the nose, IgA, decrease allowing an infection to take hold. Meanwhile, IgG doesn’t ramp up until a short period of time after an infection has begun but IgG is able to eventually fight it. IgA is less duarble and IgG is more durable. Is that the gist of it?

Edited September 26, 2021 by BeachGal

[Wheres Toto]

Dh is getting his booster tomorrow.  He was the first of us to get vaccinated, he got his second in March so is just at the 6 month mark.  He's 65 and obese so also highest risk of us all.

I was later, I think I didn't get my second until early June.  The kids got theirs over the summer.

Oldest dd was earlier than the teenagers but she also had a case of confirmed Covid so I'm not worried about her getting a booster.  

[Happy2BaMom]

18 hours ago, wathe said:

National Post article with more details.

It looks like they pulled their denominator from a public database.  And either pulled the wrong number, or pulled the number before the data on the database were complete.

They didn't do the math wrong so much as use the wrong numbers to do the math.

I don't think this was malicious.  I think is was an honest mistake.  The authors did state that their finding was surprising, "That our data should suggest a tenfold higher incidence seems surprising" and put in all the usual disclaimers for preliminary work.

This sort of thing is what the preprint process is for, really.  For scientists to share data in fast-moving fields, to critically appraise each other's work, and to catch mistakes before formal publication.  

 I'm pretty sure that the authors are a bunch of cardiologists, not public health or epidemiology folks.  The denominator they used (tens of thousands, instead of hundreds of thousands) might not have felt obviously wrong to them the way it would to the public health and epidemiology.  It may have seemed like an appropriately big number.

Don't get me wrong; it's a big mistake that should have been obvious to the authors. But is was an error, not the willful spreading of misinformation.  

 

I get it, and I appreciate the information.

I'm just angry, because I'd lay big money down on a bet that that one study has led to the deaths of thousands of people. The vaccine hesitant (let alone the anti-crowd) REALLY latched onto those results as proof positive that the vaccines hadn't been tested enough, that we really didn't know the what the effects were, that the risks of getting the vaccine outweighed the risks of Covid, etc.

And so here we are.

[Tree Frog]

1 hour ago, BeachGal said:

I thought IgA (mucosal antibodies) wane much faster than IgG and that IgA drops considerably after 100 days (pretty sure there’s a paper about this). This would explain why a fully vaccinated person could have a breakthrough case. The particular antibodies in the nose, IgA, decrease allowing an infection to take hold. Meanwhile, IgG doesn’t ramp up until a short period of time after an infection has begun but IgG is able to eventually fight it. IgA is less duarble and IgG is more durable. Is that the gist of it?

Thank you for this easy to understand explanation!

[Corraleno]

1 hour ago, BeachGal said:

I thought IgA (mucosal antibodies) wane much faster than IgG and that IgA drops considerably after 100 days (pretty sure there’s a paper about this). This would explain why a fully vaccinated person could have a breakthrough case. The particular antibodies in the nose, IgA, decrease allowing an infection to take hold. Meanwhile, IgG doesn’t ramp up until a short period of time after an infection has begun but IgG is able to eventually fight it. IgA is less duarble and IgG is more durable. Is that the gist of it?

No, in this study they were actually testing for dose-dependent antibody responses vs waning immunity. They infected the animals 4 weeks after the second dose, when IgA antibodies were still strong. What they found was that higher vaccine doses resulted in higher antibody titers, and higher antibody titers were needed to prevent viral replication in the upper airway (as sampled via nasal swabs) compared to the lower airway (as sampled via bronceoaveolar lavage). Antibody levels produced by a dose as low as 1 µg (this is in macaques) were sufficient to protect against severe lung disease but not upper respiratory disease. Antibody levels produced in response to doses of 30 and 100 µg, on the other hand, were protective against both upper and lower respiratory disease. They found IgA and IgG in both upper and lower respiratory tracts, although IgG antibodies were significantly higher in both areas.

So that may partly explain why Moderna's protection against symptomatic disease lasts longer than Pfizer's, since their dose is more than 3x higher than Pfizer's and likely produces higher antibody levels to begin with. It's quite possible that the waning of IgA after 3-4 months also contributes to the drop in protection, but according to this study, even when IgA antibodies are strong, it still takes a higher level of antibodies to halt viral replication in the upper versus lower airway.

 

[JennyD]

15 hours ago, YaelAldrich said:

Got me and the DH appointments after the last set of Jewish holidays next Monday through Wednesday night (Shemini Atzeres and Simchat Torah for all those playing What Jewish Holiday Is It Now?). I'll bring my letter stating I do congregant care work and he'll bring his faculty ID. Flu shots as well. Never got mine this early before.

 

This is not on topic, but I am finding the holidays just incredibly difficult this year.  *Much* harder than last year.  I am trying to find joy and meaning where I can, for the sake of setting a good example as much as anything else, but I feel like I'm teetering at the edge of darkness much of the time.  And I am generally a pretty upbeat person who doesn't suffer from chronic depression or anything like that.  

For the sake of the other 98% of Americans, I really hope that we are in a far better place by Christmastime.  

 

[ieta_cassiopeia]

On 9/24/2021 at 11:34 PM, Corraleno said:

I don't know what's going on with J&J or why they've sat on the data so long — they ran 1 & 2 shot trials in tandem and I suspect they have known for a long time that 2 doses were more effective. Maybe they were just waiting until the mRNA vaccines required boosters, so they could keep the "one & done" marketing angle as long as possible. Although it does look like there will now be boosters for J&J, to be honest if I'd had J&J I would get an mRNA vax for the second shot instead of another J&J. In the UK they found that AZ + Pfizer was more effective than two shots of AZ, and I would imagine J&J would be similar since they are both adenovirus vaccines.

J&J 2-dose didn't get approval in the UK because it was only slightly more effective than 1-dose in the UK (I think it was 71% vs 66% if I recall correctly, but I don't have the studies to hand, which wasn't felt to be worth doubling the cost and complexity of initial dosing). If the USA data is similar, it would be difficult for them to justify doing a second dose immediately... ...though of course this says nothing about whether that second dose would be helpful months or years down the line.

[ktgrok]

Tried to schedule boosters for DH and I, he is eligible early next week, I'm at the 6 month mark on the 1st of October. No where is doing booster scheduling yet - just 3rd dose for immune compromised. GRr. 

[catz]

2 hours ago, ieta_cassiopeia said:

J&J 2-dose didn't get approval in the UK because it was only slightly more effective than 1-dose in the UK (I think it was 71% vs 66% if I recall correctly, but I don't have the studies to hand, which wasn't felt to be worth doubling the cost and complexity of initial dosing). If the USA data is similar, it would be difficult for them to justify doing a second dose immediately... ...though of course this says nothing about whether that second dose would be helpful months or years down the line.

Interesting because the info released this week said 2 dose J&J was 94% affective 

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/johnson-and-johnson-covid-19-vaccine-booster-94-percent-protection-infection/

[KSera]

@ieta_cassiopeia do you have any information about side effects with second mRNA shots in the UK? I’m curious whether the longer spacing had an impact on that.

[mommyoffive]

Pfizer CEO Says They’re ‘Days’ Away From Giving FDA Data on Vaccines for Kids: ‘If They Approve It, We Will Be Ready’ (msn.com)

[Laura Corin]

8 hours ago, KSera said:

@ieta_cassiopeia do you have any information about side effects with second mRNA shots in the UK? I’m curious whether the longer spacing had an impact on that.

This might be difficult to tease out.  Right at the beginning, Pfizer was used on the short schedule.  Then the government decided on the longer schedule to get as many people with first jabs as possible.  This was for both Pfizer and Moderna.  In addition, the early recipients were largely very elderly or with serious underlying conditions, whereas the later mRNA recipients were mostly healthy under 40s.

Edited September 27, 2021 by Laura Corin