The Vaccine Thread

[mommyoffive]

On 10/1/2021 at 3:00 PM, JennyD said:

FDA will be holding advisory committee meeting on pediatric vaccine on October 26.

 

bumping this

[mommyoffive]

3 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

Could you link that? Because that's like a month after submitting the data... why so long? 

I was wondering why it would take so long too.    Why are they not moving faster? 

[ktgrok]

4 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

Could you link that? Because that's like a month after submitting the data... why so long? 

Oops, that's when FDA is holding the panel to discuss it, sorry. 

[Syllieann]

Pfizer gave them data for kids but they haven't officially applied for EUA yet.  It's unclear why.

[Not_a_Number]

8 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

Oops, that's when FDA is holding the panel to discuss it, sorry. 

Ah yeah, I was just talking to DH, and he clarified that for me. Thanks! 

And that means it might, in fact, get approved in October 🙂 . And then they really could be fully vaxxed by Thanksgiving! That would be so awesome!!

[mommyoffive]

28 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

That's what I did, too, frankly. But we can't seem to convince them to do it when they aren't sure they are supposed to. 

Did you get a 3rd shot of Modnera that way? 

[mommyoffive]

What are we hearing and thinking about boosting teens?   Mine are coming up to the 6 month mark in the next 2 months.  I haven't read anything on this, has anyone seen anything?

[Not_a_Number]

2 minutes ago, mommyoffive said:

Did you get a 3rd shot of Modnera that way? 

No, I got Pfizer that way. But an acquaintance did get Moderna, even though she had Pfizer for her original shots. 

I'm pretty sure at this point people can get whatever booster they want, IF they want it and are willing not to be too squeamish about checking boxes that aren't strictly true 😉 . 

[KSera]

25 minutes ago, mommyoffive said:

What are we hearing and thinking about boosting teens?   Mine are coming up to the 6 month mark in the next 2 months.  I haven't read anything on this, has anyone seen anything?

I’m not hearing much, though I did notice in some thing I was looking at yesterday about breakthrough cases in Oregon, that the rates are very low in the vaccinated kids. Of course, they got their shots later, too. It’s hard to tease out. I would support my college age kids getting boosted when the time comes, particularly due to their higher exposure and the fact that even if their case was almost certain to be mild, the repercussions of testing positive at college are too high. Not just missing class (which is big) but having to be moved into an isolation dorm. That’s kind of my oldest kid’s  nightmare. My 16-year-old son would be a little tougher call. His risk and exposure are both low and he’s male. His risk of myocarditis is still going to be higher from actually getting Covid than it would be from the shot though, so I don’t know. Fortunately, he still has several months before he’s even it’s six months, so I don’t have to decide soon.

Edited October 3, 2021 by KSera
Typo

[Toocrazy!!]

18 minutes ago, mommyoffive said:

What are we hearing and thinking about boosting teens?   Mine are coming up to the 6 month mark in the next 2 months.  I haven't read anything on this, has anyone seen anything?

This is what I’m wondering now. Mine had Pfizer and is a couple weeks from 6 months mark. Most of his social group was vaccinated the same time. 
Is there a way to test your own antibodies from vaccine. DS had a strong reaction- fever, chills, etc. He’s not eager to go through that again, but he’s open to information. 

[Syllieann]

3 hours ago, mommyoffive said:

What are we hearing and thinking about boosting teens?   Mine are coming up to the 6 month mark in the next 2 months.  I haven't read anything on this, has anyone seen anything?

I saw a chart of antibody response and decline broken down by age.  It was big age groups, but it was sufficiently different that I remember thinking I wouldn't need to be boosting my teen at the six month mark.

[Syllieann]

3 hours ago, mommyoffive said:

What are we hearing and thinking about boosting teens?   Mine are coming up to the 6 month mark in the next 2 months.  I haven't read anything on this, has anyone seen anything?

I saw a chart of antibody response and decline broken down by age.  It was big age groups, but it was sufficiently different that I remember thinking I wouldn't need to be boosting my teen at the six month mark.

[catz]

My 16 year old got her 2nd shot in April and I'm not thinking about boosting her until it becomes recommended for that age range.  She is otherwise healthy.  I am grateful my college student wasn't fully vaxxed until late June, so he's hopefully good for a bit too.  Covid numbers have actually been nice and low at his highly vaccinated (> 92%) big 10 U.  I've been watching those numbers closely.  They had a really big outbreak last fall at the beginning of the year.  

I'm 51 and I'm not eligible for booster until mid November for 6 months.   And I'd rather hold out if that means a better immune response especially since everyone around me is vaccinated too.   I might feel different if I was living with someone super vulnerable or unvaccinated young kids, etc.  

[Dmmetler]

3 hours ago, mommyoffive said:

What are we hearing and thinking about boosting teens?   Mine are coming up to the 6 month mark in the next 2 months.  I haven't read anything on this, has anyone seen anything?

16-17 aren't approved to be boosted, even if high risk. I am kind of hoping they approve it for 12-17 if recommended before December so kids can get it over winter break, since a lot of kids will come due right then, and schools are a pretty big petri dish at all times. 

[Mom_to3]

 I am concerned that there won't be boosters for adolescent boys for quite a while. Very few people in my (fairly well vaccinated) neck of the woods appear to be getting boosters.

[whitestavern]

9 minutes ago, Mom_to3 said:

 I am concerned that there won't be boosters for adolescent boys for quite a while. Very few people in my (fairly well vaccinated) neck of the woods appear to be getting boosters.

Did you watch the FDA advisory meeting for the boosters? Most members seemed very concerned about approving boosters for that age group, especially the young men, due to safety issues. I wouldn't be in any hurry to get my kid boosted. 

[ktgrok]

9 hours ago, mommyoffive said:

What are we hearing and thinking about boosting teens?   Mine are coming up to the 6 month mark in the next 2 months.  I haven't read anything on this, has anyone seen anything?

Well, my 22 yr old (not a teen, but close) got a breakthrough infection less than 6 months out from being fully vaccinated. 

He will get a booster once he's more than 90 days out from his positive test. He doesn't want it again. 

[KSera]

58 minutes ago, whitestavern said:

Did you watch the FDA advisory meeting for the boosters? Most members seemed very concerned about approving boosters for that age group, especially the young men, due to safety issues. I wouldn't be in any hurry to get my kid boosted. 

I think it’s a really tough decision with the boys in that age group. The initial shots are still an easy call to me, based on the MUCH higher risk of myocarditis and other negative outcomes from having Covid than from getting the vaccine. Since being double vaccinated reduces the chances of them getting Covid in the first place, and of having a serious case if they do get it, I feel like we don’t have enough information yet to know whether the risks from breakthrough Covid is still higher for the young male population than side effects for a booster dose. 

Edited October 4, 2021 by KSera
Typos

[Not_a_Number]

5 minutes ago, KSera said:

I think it’s a really tough decision with the boys in that age group. The initial shots are still an easy call to me, based on the MUCH higher risk of myocarditis and other negative outcomes from having Covid than from getting the vaccine. Since being double vaccinated reduces the chances of them getting Covid in the first place, and of having a serious case if they do get it, I feel like we don’t have enough information yet to know whether the risks from breakthrough Covid is still higher for the young male population than side effects for a booster dose. 

Yeah, I think this requires data. 

Also, it's possible a lower dose would be the right thing here. 

[Syllieann]

10 hours ago, KSera said:

I think it’s a really tough decision with the boys in that age group. The initial shots are still an easy call to me, based on the MUCH higher risk of myocarditis and other negative outcomes from having Covid than from getting the vaccine. Since being double vaccinated reduces the chances of them getting Covid in the first place, and of having a serious case if they do get it, I feel like we don’t have enough information yet to know whether the risks from breakthrough Covid is still higher for the young male population than side effects for a booster dose. 

We also don't know the risks for them if they contract covid after a single dose.  It is frustrating that we don't have that data.  I think that's what UK is doing for their adolescents though, so maybe it will be forthcoming.  It wouldn't shock me if a single dose with a breakthrough case is lower risk for them, but that wouldn't help community spread very much.  Our FDA panel claims we are only vaccinating adolescents to reduce the risk to THEM, so I don't see a booster getting approved without that clear, specific risk reduction.

[Dmmetler]

I'm thinking it may be worth boosting girls, but not boys. I can see why the CDC wanted to wait on that-it would be a hard recommendation to make. However, I really still hope that it is approved for at least high risk kids so they have the option of getting a vaccine booster if their doctors recommend it. The way COVID is running through schools is terrifying. 

[ktgrok]

Just in case anyone is interested, my booster of Pfizer had less in the way of systemic side effects, but significanlty more local inflammation. My arm is still tender to the touch, and I have a significant lump where the injection was given, which didn't happen with the others. It also hurt more when she gave it, so maybe that was partly technique/location? Seems higher than the others. 

[SKL]

About school vax mandates for kids ....

Yes, I know we have rules about kids getting MMR etc.  But there are exceptions if you've already had the disease.  It will be interesting to see what exactly the rules are in those areas where schools mandate the kiddy or teen vax.

[Matryoshka]

1 hour ago, SKL said:

About school vax mandates for kids ....

Yes, I know we have rules about kids getting MMR etc.  But there are exceptions if you've already had the disease.  It will be interesting to see what exactly the rules are in those areas where schools mandate the kiddy or teen vax.

That's true because the MMR has pretty much lifelong immunity.  As far as I know they still give titer checks for Rubella to women who are pregnant or trying to make sure they're still immune and give boosters, because that one sometimes does wear off.

Many other vaccines given in childhood aren't particularly dangerous to adults, and that's a reason they don't care as much as you get older.  Tetanus boosters are reguarly given to adults.

Every disease is different.  I didn't give my kids the cpox vax because it had just come out and it wasn't clear that the cpox vax would give lifelong immunity, and it's pretty benign in kids and much more dangerous to adults.  Covid's pretty much the opposite - much more dangerous to adults and it does not appear that natural immunity is any better than the vaccine, in fact likely the opposite, and with hugely reduced danger from the actual disease (y'know, hospitalization, death, long Covid).

I'm pretty sure they were fairly uptight about Smallpox vaccination (which left a scar on your arm for life - so I guess no database needed!).  They don't care now because it's the one disease we've managed to eradicate.  Yay vaccines.

Edited October 4, 2021 by Matryoshka

[Not_a_Number]

21 minutes ago, Matryoshka said:

Covid's pretty much the opposite - much more dangerous to adults and it does not appear that natural immunity is any better than the vaccine, in fact likely the opposite, and with hugely reduced danger from the actual disease (y'know, hospitalization, death, long Covid).

I think the study out of Israel did suggest that natural immunity worked better than the vaccine, although interestingly, my own anecdata doesn't necessarily agree with that. 

[mommyoffive]

BioNTech CEO reportedly says a different COVID vaccine may be needed by next year (msn.com)

[Not_a_Number]

2 minutes ago, mommyoffive said:

BioNTech CEO reportedly says a different COVID vaccine may be needed by next year (msn.com)

Ugh. I mean, I know that in some sense he would prefer that to be the case, lol, but I still do NOT want to hear it 😛 . 

[SKL]

1 hour ago, Matryoshka said:

That's true because the MMR has pretty much lifelong immunity.  As far as I know they still give titer checks for Rubella to women who are pregnant or trying to make sure they're still immune and give boosters, because that one sometimes does wear off.

Many other vaccines given in childhood aren't particularly dangerous to adults, and that's a reason they don't care as much as you get older.  Tetanus boosters are reguarly given to adults.

Every disease is different.  I didn't give my kids the cpox vax because it had just come out and it wasn't clear that the cpox vax would give lifelong immunity, and it's pretty benign in kids and much more dangerous to adults.  Covid's pretty much the opposite - much more dangerous to adults and it does not appear that natural immunity is any better than the vaccine, in fact likely the opposite, and with hugely reduced danger from the actual disease (y'know, hospitalization, death, long Covid).

I'm pretty sure they were fairly uptight about Smallpox vaccination (which left a scar on your arm for life - so I guess no database needed!).  They don't care now because it's the one disease we've managed to eradicate.  Yay vaccines.

I don't think it's clear that the Covid vax lasts much longer than natural immunity in children.  I don't know when we'll have that data if ever.

The other thing I wonder about is whether they will also demand kids get boosters if/when kid boosters are approved.

[Faith-manor]

1 hour ago, mommyoffive said:

BioNTech CEO reportedly says a different COVID vaccine may be needed by next year (msn.com)

Just turn me into a pin cushion, sigh. Preparing for many sore arms ahead.

[ktgrok]

16 minutes ago, Faith-manor said:

Just turn me into a pin cushion, sigh. Preparing for many sore arms ahead.

Yup, I'm alternately scratching and wincing at mine today. 

[catz]

1 hour ago, mommyoffive said:

BioNTech CEO reportedly says a different COVID vaccine may be needed by next year (msn.com)

I won't be surprised if the vaccines become annual and get updated or whatever.  But at the same time, I think it's always good to take what a CEO of a company to profit from that scenario with a grain of salt.  

[mommyoffive]

Lost your COVID-19 vaccine card? Don't worry, you can get a new one. (msn.com)

[KSera]

On 10/4/2021 at 7:25 AM, Dmmetler said:

I'm thinking it may be worth boosting girls, but not boys. I can see why the CDC wanted to wait on that-it would be a hard recommendation to make. However, I really still hope that it is approved for at least high risk kids so they have the option of getting a vaccine booster if their doctors recommend it. The way COVID is running through schools is terrifying. 

I wonder if that would prove tricky to have different recommendations for boys and girls. Though, they did that for HPV, so maybe not. This seems a little different since boys are not at lower risk from the disease. 
 

You’re in TN, right? I read an article earlier today about how bad Covid is in TN schools right now (and how little most people seem to want to do anything to change that). 

On 10/4/2021 at 12:30 PM, Not_a_Number said:

I think the study out of Israel did suggest that natural immunity worked better than the vaccine, although interestingly, my own anecdata doesn't necessarily agree with that. 

There was the Israel one, but then I saw a different one this past week showing reinfection rates being twice as high as breakthrough rates. I meant to share it, but threads get away from me.  

On 10/4/2021 at 1:29 PM, SKL said:

I don't think it's clear that the Covid vax lasts much longer than natural immunity in children.  I don't know when we'll have that data if ever.

The other thing I wonder about is whether they will also demand kids get boosters if/when kid boosters are approved.

I expect we’ll have data eventually, and I don’t see any evidence they will “demand” kids get boosters anytime before that data is in, considering adult boosters weren’t even a slam dunk (and certainly aren’t being demanded of people) and aren’t available for all and kids under 12 don’t even have primary shots available. It’s not like they are willy nilly approving any of this stuff. 

[Ausmumof3]

I don’t keep up with this thread well so apologies if this was already shared.

[Dmmetler]

8 hours ago, KSera said:

I wonder if that would prove tricky to have different recommendations for boys and girls. Though, they did that for HPV, so maybe not. This seems a little different since boys are not at lower risk from the disease. 
 

You’re in TN, right? I read an article earlier today about how bad Covid is in TN schools right now (and how little most people seem to want to do anything to change that). 

There was the Israel one, but then I saw a different one this past week showing reinfection rates being twice as high as breakthrough rates. I meant to share it, but threads get away from me.  

I expect we’ll have data eventually, and I don’t see any evidence they will “demand” kids get boosters anytime before that data is in, considering adult boosters weren’t even a slam dunk (and certainly aren’t being demanded of people) and aren’t available for all and kids under 12 don’t even have primary shots available. It’s not like they are willy nilly approving any of this stuff. 

Yes, I'm in TN, and it's awful. I have a 30 student music studio, 22 of which are under age 12. 5 are currently out because they or a sibling have COVID. You can't go virtual and switch back to a regular school if needed-if you chose to transfer to a virtual school, you can only transfer back during the transfer enrollment period in the Spring and is not guaranteed (thanks to our governor), so few parents were willing to make that commitment, especially given as bad as virtual was last year. Schools can take a class or even a campus virtual if needed for a short time, but cannot completely choose to shut down and go online again.  

 

I am hoping and praying that we get vaccines for kids quickly. And that they approve boosters for teens who got their shots this summer. Right now, the 12-15 group should be fairly well protected (all 35% of them...), but the 16-17 yr olds are getting right up to 6 months. I'm not worried about L, who is on a vaccinated college campus where most of the students and faculty who got Pfizer initially are getting boosters and they're testing weekly, but I'm quite concerned about M, who is attending a public high school, and C who is in a public middle school. 

[mommyoffive]

Sweden, Denmark Halt Moderna’s Covid Shot for Younger People (msn.com)

[KSera]

1 hour ago, mommyoffive said:

Sweden, Denmark Halt Moderna’s Covid Shot for Younger People (msn.com)

That article didn’t put any of it in context. No numbers at all or mention of the incidence of myocarditis in cases of Covid infection. From further reading, this is a temporary pause, similar to what happened with J&J. I’d like to know if they’re seeing numbers any different then the US, since it seems like this shouldn’t be new information for them that the shot carries a small risk of that in young men. Given the option, it does seem to make sense to give young men Pfizer over Moderna. It’s too bad the trade-off is that Pfizer doesn’t last quite as long. It’s entirely possible that the difference of it wearing off earlier could end up resulting in more myocarditis cases due to catching Covid than had they gotten Moderna and had longer lasting protection. That would be interesting to see those numbers run.

[Not_a_Number]

11 minutes ago, KSera said:

That article didn’t put any of it in context. No numbers at all or mention of the incidence of myocarditis in cases of Covid infection. From further reading, this is a temporary pause, similar to what happened with J&J. I’d like to know if they’re seeing numbers any different then the US, since it seems like this shouldn’t be new information for them that the shot carries a small risk of that in young men. Given the option, it does seem to make sense to give young men Pfizer over Moderna. It’s too bad the trade-off is that Pfizer doesn’t last quite as long. It’s entirely possible that the difference of it wearing off earlier could end up resulting in more myocarditis cases due to catching Covid than had they gotten Moderna and had longer lasting protection. That would be interesting to see those numbers run.

I would think it makes more sense to do Pfizer and then a boost. 

[KSera]

51 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

I would think it makes more sense to do Pfizer and then a boost. 

Probably so, but right now that’s not generally available to healthy young people, and not at all for those under 18. Now, the vast majority don’t need it yet because it hasn’t been enough time, I’m just wondering aloud which risk is higher.

[mommyoffive]

White House announces $1 billion purchase of rapid, at-home coronavirus tests (msn.com)

 

[Mom_to3]

9 hours ago, Not_a_Number said:

I would think it makes more sense to do Pfizer and then a boost. 

I don't think we know enough (what if you have to boost more frequently with Pfizer and each booster is an opportunity for myocarditis; or, if they never authorize a booster for teens - then we have only one "shot" at protection, and might want that to be the best shot even if it is a bit more risky). I wish they would at least publish the data and discuss in more detail the data they do have. Moderna applied for EUA for teens back in what, May or June? I wish we knew why the FDA hasn't authorized it yet. Is it ever coming? I am somewhat annoyed that I have to give my eldest (and probably soon my younger ones) Pfizer, rather than being able to make an educated decision for our family.

[Not_a_Number]

19 minutes ago, Mom_to3 said:

I don't think we know enough (what if you have to boost more frequently with Pfizer and each booster is an opportunity for myocarditis; or, if they never authorize a booster for teens - then we have only one "shot" at protection, and might want that to be the best shot even if it is a bit more risky). I wish they would at least publish the data and discuss in more detail the data they do have. Moderna applied for EUA for teens back in what, May or June? I wish we knew why the FDA hasn't authorized it yet. Is it ever coming? I am somewhat annoyed that I have to give my eldest (and probably soon my younger ones) Pfizer, rather than being able to make an educated decision for our family.

I would guess that lower doses more often is the right way to go, just from observation, but you're right that we don't know enough yet. 

But that's partially because it's not a super common side effect and isn't all that easy to study, I think. 

[mommyoffive]

US coronavirus: Los Angeles city leaders vote to require proof of vaccination for indoor spaces like restaurants and gyms (msn.com)

[mommyoffive]

White House analysis touts gains from COVID-19 vaccine requirements (msn.com)

 

Allowing people to mix COVID-19 vaccines could cut into Pfizer and Moderna’s revenue next year (msn.com)

 

Covid Protection Wanes Months After Second Shot, Studies Show (msn.com)

 

[mommyoffive]

Pfizer seeks FDA authorization of Covid-19 vaccine for children ages 5 to 11 - CNN

 

Pfizer and BioNTech said Thursday they are seeking US Food and Drug Administration emergency use authorization from for their Covid-19 vaccine for children ages 5 to 11.

If authorized, this would be the first Covid-19 vaccine for younger children. The Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine is approved for people age 16 and older and has an EUA for people ages 12 to 15.

Last month, Pfizer released details of a Phase 2/3 trial that showed its Covid-19 vaccine was safe and generated a "robust" antibody response in children ages 5 to 11. The trial included 2,268 participants ages 5 to 11 and used a two-dose regimen of the vaccine administered 21 days apart. This trial used a 10-microgram dose -- smaller than the 30-microgram dose that has been used for those 12 and older.

Participants' immune responses were measured by looking at neutralizing antibody levels in their blood and comparing those levels to a control group of 16- to 25-year-olds who were given a two-dose regimen with the larger 30-microgram dose. Pfizer said the levels compared well with older people who received the larger dose, demonstrating a "strong immune response in this cohort of children one month after the second dose."

Pfizer began submitting its data on the vaccine for younger children to the FDA late last month, but had not formally requested authorization until now.

FDA officials had said that once vaccine data for younger children was submitted, the agency could authorize a vaccine for younger children in a matter of weeks -- not months -- but it would depend on the timing and quality of the data provided.

In anticipation of the request, the FDA last week scheduled a meeting of its Vaccines and Related Biological Products Advisory Committee to discuss the vaccine in children ages 5 to 11 on October 26. If the FDA OKs it, a panel of CDC vaccine advisers will meet to consider whether to recommend its use.

"We know from our vast experience with other pediatric vaccines that children are not small adults, and we will conduct a comprehensive evaluation of clinical trial data submitted in support of the safety and effectiveness of the vaccine used in a younger pediatric population, which may need a different dosage or formulation from that used in an older pediatric population or adults," Acting FDA Commissioner Dr. Janet Woodcock said in a statement about the October 26 meeting.

Edited October 7, 2021 by mommyoffive

[mommyoffive]

News is saying shots in arms by Halloween!   They are saying it could happen. 

They are saying the doses are already made.

Edited October 7, 2021 by mommyoffive

[Not_a_Number]

35 minutes ago, mommyoffive said:

News is saying shots in arms by Halloween!   They are saying it could happen. 

They are saying the doses are already made.

Ooooh, please, let this be true. 

[mommyoffive]

Scientists disagree whether infection and vaccination give equal Covid protection (msn.com)

[wathe]

A nice opinion article in the NYT by a reproductive immunologist about covid vaccination in pregnancy, and the broader issue of excluding pregnant women from the trials.

[mommyoffive]

Immunity From COVID Vaccine Weakens Faster in Men Than Women: Study (msn.com)