The Vaccine Thread

[ktgrok]

Just scheduled my booster and DH's booster! I'm going Friday afternoon, he's going Saturday (so doesn't interfere with his work). CVS and publix now have scheduling up!

[Dmmetler]

2 hours ago, ktgrok said:

Just scheduled my booster and DH's booster! I'm going Friday afternoon, he's going Saturday (so doesn't interfere with his work). CVS and publix now have scheduling up!

Walgreens and Kroger, too, if anyone is looking. Walmart had it up as of last Friday, which is why I went there.

[Terabith]

Virginia is not yet allowing boosters for anyone other than the third doses for immune compromised.  

I need to contact my doctor and see if I can get approval for one as an under 50 with some risk factors.  But I'm not at six months yet, and honestly, I think I might want to wait till closer to the next wave anyway?  I really want to go see my parents for Christmas in Tennessee, and I want to be well protected before we do that, since taking any covid precautions will be tricky there.  

[ieta_cassiopeia]

20 hours ago, FuzzyCatz said:

Interesting because the info released this week said 2 dose J&J was 94% affective 

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/johnson-and-johnson-covid-19-vaccine-booster-94-percent-protection-infection/

The 2-dose J&J was submitted to the UK for testing last autumn through to this spring; 1-dose was approved in late April). J&J would need to re-submit the 2-dose for Phase III testing in the UK to see if the results it discusses are replicated there, if it has new information. Otherwise this is potentially an apples-to-oranges comparison.

[ieta_cassiopeia]

21 hours ago, KSera said:

@ieta_cassiopeia do you have any information about side effects with second mRNA shots in the UK? I’m curious whether the longer spacing had an impact on that.

Side effects for all vaccines (including but not restricted to mRNA) reported in the UK. All percentages are inclusive. Unless otherwise specified, the risks on first and second dose are similar, but tend to cluster to the same people (so if you had a symptom on the first dose, there's a good chance you'll have it on a future dose too). :

Very common (more than 10%): headache/muscle ache, stiffness, tiredness, fatigue, combinations of the above.

Common (1-10%): Redness at the injection site

Uncommon (0.1% - 1%): swollen lymph glands (which is considered a medical concern if lasting more than 10 days), unusual results in breast screening (which is a medical concern if lasting more than 7 days as the changes should revert)

Side effects for doses of Pfizer specifically:

Very common (above 10%): "Heavy", painful feeling and tenderness in arm receiving injection, joint pain, chills, mild fever
Common (1-10%): Nausea/vomiting

Uncommon (0.1%-1%): Insomnia, rash/itchiness at the injection site

Rare (0.01%-0.1%): Palsy, hives at the injection site, facial swelling

Below 1 per 10,000: Anaphylactic allergy (always a medical emergency)

Below 1 per 10,000: Heart inflammation (medical concern if not cured with 2 weeks of home rest)

Below 1 per 10,000: Various severe/acute heart problems, including myocarditis and pericarditis (always a medical emergency, for the ones in this category) (Note: we do have more of an idea for this one, because the statistic given for 12-15 year olds was 32 in 1,000,000 and the risk apparently decreases with age, all else being equal).

Below 1 per 10,000: Severe swelling of the vaccinated limb

Side effects for doses of Moderna specifically:

Very common (above 10%): "Heavy", painful feeling and tenderness in arm receiving injection, joint pain, chills, mild fever

Very common (more than 10%): Vomiting/nausea

Common (1%-10%): Rash/hives at the injection site

Uncommon (0.1%-1%): Itchiness at the injection site, 

Below 1 per 10,000: Anaphylactic allergy (always a medical emergency)
Below 1 per 10,000: Heart inflammation (medical concern if not cured with 2 weeks of home rest)

Below 1 per 10,000: Hypersensitive immune system (potentially a future medical emergency)

Below 1 per 10,000: Various severe/acute heart problems, including myocarditis and pericarditis (always a medical emergency, for the ones in this category). It's thought to be less common than Pfizer but I've not seen any exact numbers for this.

Side effects for doses of OxfordAstrazeneca specifically:

Very common (above 10%): warmth/bruising/pain at the injection site (not associated with fever), chills, joint pain, mild fever

Common (1%-10%): Moderate fever (a medical concern in this case if lasting longer than 3 days), swelling/lump at the injection site, limb pain, vomiting, diarrhoea

Uncommon (0.1% - 10%): dizziness, sleepiness, decreased appetite, abdominal pain, excessive sweating, hives, excessive sweating, itchy skin (unlike J&J, these generally resolve with care at home and are rarely a medical concern)

Below 1 per 10,000: Anaphylactic allergy (always a medical emergency)

Below 1 per 10,000: Facial swelling

Below 1 per 10,000: Reduced platelet count (potential medical emergency)

Below 1 per 10,000: Capillary leak syndrome (fluid leakage from small blood vessels)

Below 1 per 10,000: Hypersensitive immune system (potentially a future medical emergency)

Very rare (15 per million first doses / 1 in 66,666): Blood clots (always a medical emergency). No statistically significant risk of it in the second dose for people who did not get blood clots on the first dose. First-dose risk decreases with age. Low platelets associated with increased degree of risk but average/high platelet levels are not 100% protective (which is almost the case with J&J).

Side effects for doses of Janssen & Janssen specifically:

Very common (above 10%): Nausea

Common (1% - 10%): Swelling at injection site, joint pain, chills, mild fever, cough

Uncommon (0.1% - 1%): rash (generally or just at the injection site), muscle weakness, limb pain, feeling of weakness, sneezing, sore throat, back pain, tremor, excessive sweating (all a medical concern if lasting for more than 3 weeks), itchiness at the injection site

Rare (0.01% - 0.1%) : Anaphylactic allergy (always a medical emergency), hives

Very rare (between 1 in 100,000 and 1 in 10,000): Blood clots (always a medical emergency). Unlike OxfordAstrazeneca, this appears to be almost exclusively in people with a history of low platelets. In the UK, this is only ever given as a single-dose vaccine, except to those people in the 2-dose trial.

mRNA shared symptoms that are more common in mRNA vaccines than either UK-approved non-mRNA vaccine:

Very common (above 10%): "Heavy" feeling and tenderness in arm receiving injection
Below 1 per 10,000: Heart inflammation (medical concern if not cured with 2 weeks of home rest)

Below 1 per 10,000: Various severe/acute heart problems, including myocarditis and pericarditis (always a medical emergency, for the ones in this category)

 

For anything listed as "below 1 per 10,000" without a descriptor of how common it is, the side effects are rare enough that the precise frequency is considered unknown, however anything above 1 in 10,000 is reported with a category of severity, so we can be reasonably confident it's low for the general population. This is as distinct from, for example, the J&J blood clots, which is common enough that an actual percentage is considered statistically reliable despite happening so rarely.

There's also talk that some/all of the vaccines may be causing changes to people's period patterns, which would count as a symptom for NHS purposes. However, due to the way the data is collected, no reliable numbers exist (either in total or by vaccine).

Hope this helps.

Edited September 27, 2021 by ieta_cassiopeia

[KSera]

33 minutes ago, ieta_cassiopeia said:

Hope this helps

Thank you for sharing it. What I think is most interesting is that they say the outcomes are similar for first and second shots, whereas in the US, with our spacing, is a definite pattern of more side effects per second shots. That lends some support to the idea that a longer interval might not only create a better immune response, but also result in fewer side effects. I’ve been considering whether when my kids get theirs, I might space them out a bit more than the standard recommendation just to get them potentially a longer lasting response.

Edited September 27, 2021 by KSera
Wow, that was really terrible dictation typos that I didn’t proofread. So sorry! I’m doing a lot of posting on the run today.

[ieta_cassiopeia]

9 minutes ago, KSera said:

Thank you for sharing it. But I know what the most is that they say but the outcomes are similar for first and second shots, whereas in the US, with our spacing, is a definite pattern of more side effects per second shots. That lends some support to the idea that a longer interval might not only create a better immune response, but also result in fewer side effects. I’ve been considering whether when my kids get theirs, I might space them out a bit more than the standard recommendation just to get them potentially a longer lasting response.

At the moment, in the UK the advice is to get only one jab (for under-16s), so if you really want two jabs, long spacing makes sense. Perhaps one soon, in time for any winter surges, and another in late winter/early spring when sites aren't trying to juggle COVID and flu vaccinations at the same time.

Edited September 27, 2021 by ieta_cassiopeia

[Starr]

21 minutes ago, KSera said:

Thank you for sharing it. What I think is most interesting is that they say the outcomes are similar for first and second shots, whereas in the US, with our spacing, is a definite pattern of more side effects per second shots. That lends some support to the idea that a longer interval might not only create a better immune response, but also result in fewer side effects. I’ve been considering whether when my kids get theirs, I might space them out a bit more than the standard recommendation just to get them potentially a longer lasting response.

Day two post vaccine booster here and I would say go by pattern of better immune response but not count on fewer side effects. 

[BronzeTurtle]

On 9/25/2021 at 12:17 PM, Corraleno said:

I doubt that will be available before next fall at the earliest, they are planning to test it "over the next 6-12 months." They also have an RSV vaccine in development and are hoping to eventually market a single shot that would cover flu, RSV, and a covid booster. 

I have seen this mentioned several places and it doesn't make sense to me. it seems like an rsv shot would be much better for infants, not as a booster combo for adults. i'm all for not getting colds but it sort of baffles me that this would be the thing they'd try to include in an adult booster shot.

[KSera]

20 minutes ago, BronzeTurtle said:

I have seen this mentioned several places and it doesn't make sense to me. it seems like an rsv shot would be much better for infants, not as a booster combo for adults. i'm all for not getting colds but it sort of baffles me that this would be the thing they'd try to include in an adult booster shot.

I wonder if it's like pertussis, and adults often catch it without more than a cold, but then pass it on to infants who may become severely ill. So the idea would be to offer it to adults to protect those too young to be protected otherwise. I have no idea if this is the case, but that's what springs to mind as a possible explanation.

[Not_a_Number]

2 hours ago, Starr said:

Day two post vaccine booster here and I would say go by pattern of better immune response but not count on fewer side effects. 

Interesting. I think you're so far the only one who I've heard say that.

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

19 minutes ago, BronzeTurtle said:

I have seen this mentioned several places and it doesn't make sense to me. it seems like an rsv shot would be much better for infants, not as a booster combo for adults. i'm all for not getting colds but it sort of baffles me that this would be the thing they'd try to include in an adult booster shot.

I don’t know about other places, but we had a lot of adult RSV cases this year. I think it’s usually a symptomatic or a mild cold in adults but can be passed onto babies. My youngest had the RSV vaccine as a baby because he had compromised lungs as a preemie(he still caught it and wound up hospitalized for a week). The insurance fought us about it because it’s a very expensive vaccine.

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, KSera said:

I wonder if it's like pertussis, and adults often catch it without more than a cold, but then pass it on to infants who may become severely ill. So the idea would be to offer it to adults to protect those too young to be protected otherwise. I have no idea if this is the case, but that's what springs to mind as a possible explanation.

Yes, that's what occurred to me as well. 

[Ausmumof3]

3 hours ago, ieta_cassiopeia said:

Side effects for all vaccines (including but not restricted to mRNA) reported in the UK. All percentages are inclusive. Unless otherwise specified, the risks on first and second dose are similar, but tend to cluster to the same people (so if you had a symptom on the first dose, there's a good chance you'll have it on a future dose too). :

Very common (more than 10%): headache/muscle ache, stiffness, tiredness, fatigue, combinations of the above.

Common (1-10%): Redness at the injection site

Uncommon (0.1% - 1%): swollen lymph glands (which is considered a medical concern if lasting more than 10 days), unusual results in breast screening (which is a medical concern if lasting more than 7 days as the changes should revert)

Side effects for doses of Pfizer specifically:

Very common (above 10%): "Heavy", painful feeling and tenderness in arm receiving injection, joint pain, chills, mild fever
Common (1-10%): Nausea/vomiting

Uncommon (0.1%-1%): Insomnia, rash/itchiness at the injection site

Rare (0.01%-0.1%): Palsy, hives at the injection site, facial swelling

Below 1 per 10,000: Anaphylactic allergy (always a medical emergency)

Below 1 per 10,000: Heart inflammation (medical concern if not cured with 2 weeks of home rest)

Below 1 per 10,000: Various severe/acute heart problems, including myocarditis and pericarditis (always a medical emergency, for the ones in this category) (Note: we do have more of an idea for this one, because the statistic given for 12-15 year olds was 32 in 1,000,000 and the risk apparently decreases with age, all else being equal).

Below 1 per 10,000: Severe swelling of the vaccinated limb

Side effects for doses of Moderna specifically:

Very common (above 10%): "Heavy", painful feeling and tenderness in arm receiving injection, joint pain, chills, mild fever

Very common (more than 10%): Vomiting/nausea

Common (1%-10%): Rash/hives at the injection site

Uncommon (0.1%-1%): Itchiness at the injection site, 

Below 1 per 10,000: Anaphylactic allergy (always a medical emergency)
Below 1 per 10,000: Heart inflammation (medical concern if not cured with 2 weeks of home rest)

Below 1 per 10,000: Hypersensitive immune system (potentially a future medical emergency)

Below 1 per 10,000: Various severe/acute heart problems, including myocarditis and pericarditis (always a medical emergency, for the ones in this category). It's thought to be less common than Pfizer but I've not seen any exact numbers for this.

Side effects for doses of OxfordAstrazeneca specifically:

Very common (above 10%): warmth/bruising/pain at the injection site (not associated with fever), chills, joint pain, mild fever

Common (1%-10%): Moderate fever (a medical concern in this case if lasting longer than 3 days), swelling/lump at the injection site, limb pain, vomiting, diarrhoea

Uncommon (0.1% - 10%): dizziness, sleepiness, decreased appetite, abdominal pain, excessive sweating, hives, excessive sweating, itchy skin (unlike J&J, these generally resolve with care at home and are rarely a medical concern)

Below 1 per 10,000: Anaphylactic allergy (always a medical emergency)

Below 1 per 10,000: Facial swelling

Below 1 per 10,000: Reduced platelet count (potential medical emergency)

Below 1 per 10,000: Capillary leak syndrome (fluid leakage from small blood vessels)

Below 1 per 10,000: Hypersensitive immune system (potentially a future medical emergency)

Very rare (15 per million first doses / 1 in 66,666): Blood clots (always a medical emergency). No statistically significant risk of it in the second dose for people who did not get blood clots on the first dose. First-dose risk decreases with age. Low platelets associated with increased degree of risk but average/high platelet levels are not 100% protective (which is almost the case with J&J).

Side effects for doses of Janssen & Janssen specifically:

Very common (above 10%): Nausea

Common (1% - 10%): Swelling at injection site, joint pain, chills, mild fever, cough

Uncommon (0.1% - 1%): rash (generally or just at the injection site), muscle weakness, limb pain, feeling of weakness, sneezing, sore throat, back pain, tremor, excessive sweating (all a medical concern if lasting for more than 3 weeks), itchiness at the injection site

Rare (0.01% - 0.1%) : Anaphylactic allergy (always a medical emergency), hives

Very rare (between 1 in 100,000 and 1 in 10,000): Blood clots (always a medical emergency). Unlike OxfordAstrazeneca, this appears to be almost exclusively in people with a history of low platelets. In the UK, this is only ever given as a single-dose vaccine, except to those people in the 2-dose trial.

mRNA shared symptoms that are more common in mRNA vaccines than either UK-approved non-mRNA vaccine:

Very common (above 10%): "Heavy" feeling and tenderness in arm receiving injection
Below 1 per 10,000: Heart inflammation (medical concern if not cured with 2 weeks of home rest)

Below 1 per 10,000: Various severe/acute heart problems, including myocarditis and pericarditis (always a medical emergency, for the ones in this category)

 

For anything listed as "below 1 per 10,000" without a descriptor of how common it is, the side effects are rare enough that the precise frequency is considered unknown, however anything above 1 in 10,000 is reported with a category of severity, so we can be reasonably confident it's low for the general population. This is as distinct from, for example, the J&J blood clots, which is common enough that an actual percentage is considered statistically reliable despite happening so rarely.

There's also talk that some/all of the vaccines may be causing changes to people's period patterns, which would count as a symptom for NHS purposes. However, due to the way the data is collected, no reliable numbers exist (either in total or by vaccine).

Hope this helps.

So apparently I’m in the lucky 1%.  Also my sis and now my dd possibly as she seems to be getting the lymph glands as well.  I wonder if it’s genetic somehow.

[Syllieann]

@Ausmumof3 I think in the states it is a lot more common to get the lymph node swelling-maybe the shorter shot interval.  My son's swelled up pretty big, but my sense was that it was a common enough reaction that I never felt alarmed about it.  Both my mother and my son also had covid arm, which is consistent with the genetic predisposition idea.

Edited September 28, 2021 by Syllieann

[Longtime Lurker]

2 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

So apparently I’m in the lucky 1%.  Also my sis and now my dd possibly as she seems to be getting the lymph glands as well.  I wonder if it’s genetic somehow.

I had (have) a swollen lymph node after the booster but not after either of the original two shots. When I looked it up, I read that 16% get swollen lymph nodes under the arm where the shot was. But this number referred to the original doses, not boosters.

[Ausmumof3]

6 minutes ago, Longtime Lurker said:

I had (have) a swollen lymph node after the booster but not after either of the original two shots. When I looked it up, I read that 16% get swollen lymph nodes under the arm where the shot was. But this number referred to the original doses, not boosters.

My dd has them in her neck right now.  Not really bad just uncomfortable.

[Not_a_Number]

7 minutes ago, Longtime Lurker said:

I had (have) a swollen lymph node after the booster but not after either of the original two shots. When I looked it up, I read that 16% get swollen lymph nodes under the arm where the shot was. But this number referred to the original doses, not boosters.

It seems like it's more likely with the booster! I've actually now heard this from a few people. 

I wonder what that's saying about the immune response?? What kind of immune response produces that? 

[Starr]

I had really miserable symptoms after the second shot, bad headache, swollen lymph nodes, fever, chills for three days. I am now 55 hours post booster. haha too tired to do anything but could the hours. I've had a weird head thing, swollen node under the arm of shot, chills and fatigue, but not nearly as bad as before. Tonight I'm feelng back to normal.

[KSera]

22 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

It seems like it's more likely with the booster! I've actually now heard this from a few people. 

I wonder what that's saying about the immune response?? What kind of immune response produces that? 

I think that’s not abnormal for an immune response. I have two kids who frequently react to various things with swollen lymph nodes. Like, they bite their cheek really hard, they get a swollen lymph node on that side of their neck. One got one in the armpit after the second Covid shot and thought nothing of it and the other got one above the collarbone after the first. They were worried about what it was, but once they knew, it didn’t bother them.

[Not_a_Number]

3 minutes ago, KSera said:

I think that’s not abnormal for an immune response. I have two kids who frequently react to various things with swollen lymph nodes. Like, they bite their cheek really hard, they get a swollen lymph node on that side of their neck. One got one in the armpit after the second Covid shot and thought nothing of it and the other got one above the collarbone after the first. They were worried about what it was, but once they knew, it didn’t bother them.

Yeah, definitely not abnormal 😄 . I've gotten them before, too, and I always get one when I have a cold sore (which of course prompts an immune response.) 

I was just curious if the fact that MORE people had this after the booster meant anything specific about the immune response or not. 

[wathe]

3 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

So apparently I’m in the lucky 1%.  Also my sis and now my dd possibly as she seems to be getting the lymph glands as well.  I wonder if it’s genetic somehow.

 

1 hour ago, Longtime Lurker said:

I had (have) a swollen lymph node after the booster but not after either of the original two shots. When I looked it up, I read that 16% get swollen lymph nodes under the arm where the shot was. But this number referred to the original doses, not boosters.

Both of my kids had a swollen axillary lymph node post vax.  One kid after the first shot, the other kid after the second shot.  

Second kid's reaction was to announce, "Mom!  I have the lump! My shot's working!!!

[Pawz4me]

7 hours ago, Longtime Lurker said:

I had (have) a swollen lymph node after the booster but not after either of the original two shots. When I looked it up, I read that 16% get swollen lymph nodes under the arm where the shot was. But this number referred to the original doses, not boosters.

I had a swollen axillary lymph node after my third dose (which I got 15 weeks after my second dose). Mine only stayed noticeably swollen for a short time. Maybe 12-16 hours.

7 hours ago, Not_a_Number said:

 

I wonder what that's saying about the immune response?? What kind of immune response produces that? 

My hope is that it means I got a decent immune response! For the first two doses I had pretty much no reaction other than a very mildly sore arm.

[Dmmetler]

I had hives with the first two Pfizer, not the third one, and a swollen node with the second and third. The first felt like a pretty bad flu, but only lasted a couple of days. The second was bad, but for about 20 hours. The third I got a swollen lymph node and it seems to have triggered my cough variant athsma (which usually is bad a couple of weeks following any infection or major allergic reaction). According to my allergist, she’s had several patients who normally have athsma triggered by illness triggered by the booster, which kind of makes sense to me that there might be some inflammation of airways triggered by a reaction to the shot. Or maybe that’s to the flu shot, although usually that one doesn’t get a reaction from me at all.

 

Anyway, I can live with this annually or even every 6 months if needed, especially now that the vaccine is available at basically all drugstores and supermarkets. 

[Corraleno]

Pfizer submitted their application for 5-11 year olds today:

https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/pfizer-seeks-fda-clearance-covid-19-vaccine-younger-children-2021-09-28/

[Not_a_Number]

2 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

Pfizer submitted their application for 5-11 year olds today:

https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/pfizer-seeks-fda-clearance-covid-19-vaccine-younger-children-2021-09-28/

YAY!! WHOHOO!! KID VACCINES!! 

Please, FDA, don't hold this up for bureaucratic reasons. If there's a real issue, then of course, but no bureaucracy. 

[mommyoffive]

5 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

Pfizer submitted their application for 5-11 year olds today:

https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/pfizer-seeks-fda-clearance-covid-19-vaccine-younger-children-2021-09-28/

Yep, saw that early this morning.  So exciting.  I have everything crossed that what has been leaking will come true that shots before Halloween!!!!   My biggest hope is even by the 15th of October. 

[El...]

When their rep gave a press conference the other day saying they were close, it was like the cook walked out to tell me dinner was almost ready! Get your behind back in the kitchen and finish it up, pal! Haha! 

I wonder if all these progress updates help the distribution side be ready to go, or just keep us on the edge of our seats. 

I'm very impatient to get my ds9 safer with a vaccine. 

[KSera]

Cross posting this from another thread. 
 

interesting statistics from the most recent Kaiser Family Foundation Vaccine Monitor. I shared in a different thread to show the the racial disparity gap in adult vaccinations has disappeared. The report addresses many other vaccine related questions, including the primary reasons motivating people who have gotten vaccinated only recently (serious illness or death in someone they know being one of the primary ones).

 

[Not_a_Number]

4 minutes ago, KSera said:

Cross posting this from another thread. 
 

interesting statistics from the most recent Kaiser Family Foundation Vaccine Monitor. I shared in a different thread to show the the racial disparity gap in adult vaccinations has disappeared. The report addresses many other vaccine related questions, including the primary reasons motivating people who have gotten vaccinated only recently (serious illness or death in someone they know being one of the primary ones).

 

Oh, wow. And the political gap remains really stark. 

So then part of what was going on with the racial gap was just access, it looks like. 

[Longtime Lurker]

11 hours ago, wathe said:

 

Both of my kids had a swollen axillary lymph node post vax.  One kid after the first shot, the other kid after the second shot.  

Second kid's reaction was to announce, "Mom!  I have the lump! My shot's working!!!

I get it! I am excited to know my booster is boosting! I am now 4 days post-booster and the lump is now almost gone.

[SKL]

32 minutes ago, KSera said:

Cross posting this from another thread. 
 

interesting statistics from the most recent Kaiser Family Foundation Vaccine Monitor. I shared in a different thread to show the the racial disparity gap in adult vaccinations has disappeared. The report addresses many other vaccine related questions, including the primary reasons motivating people who have gotten vaccinated only recently (serious illness or death in someone they know being one of the primary ones).

 

Interesting.  There is still a pretty large racial gap in my state and county.

[Syllieann]

51 minutes ago, KSera said:

Cross posting this from another thread. 
 

interesting statistics from the most recent Kaiser Family Foundation Vaccine Monitor. I shared in a different thread to show the the racial disparity gap in adult vaccinations has disappeared. The report addresses many other vaccine related questions, including the primary reasons motivating people who have gotten vaccinated only recently (serious illness or death in someone they know being one of the primary ones).

 

Wow, what do you suppose the deal is with the uninsured?  Do people not know it's free?

[KSera]

5 minutes ago, Syllieann said:

Wow, what do you suppose the deal is with the uninsured?  Do people not know it's free?

That’s a good question. I remember seeing some kind of survey many months ago that indicated that that was the case that many people, particularly in higher poverty areas, did not realize they wouldn’t have to pay for it. I have seen one strategy to increase uptake some places has been to really lean into advertising the free aspect. I also expect that no insurance is correlated with a number of other factors, like income and education level, which tend to be related to vaccine hesitancy.

Eta: I thought it was interesting the degree to which vaccines being required for travel and recreational activities has had a major impact. Even more so than requirements for jobs (which may be just a function of their being a smaller number of jobs that are requiring a vaccine at this point. I think they said about one in five jobs requires a vaccine, and about 19% of previously hesitant people cited job requirements as a major factor in getting vaccinated).

Edited September 28, 2021 by KSera

[Not_a_Number]

4 minutes ago, KSera said:

Eta: I thought it was interesting the degree to which vaccines being required for travel and recreational activities has had a major impact. Even more so than requirements for jobs (which may be just a function of their being a smaller number of jobs that are requiring a vaccine at this point. I think they said about one in five jobs requires a vaccine, and about 19% of previously hesitant people cited job requirements as a major factor in getting vaccinated).

It's pretty unsurprising that for all but the most adamant people, being locked out of activities they'd normally participate in would be a HUGE incentive. 

People respond to incentives. If you assume they don't at all, you may as well give up on all of economics 😉 . 

[KSera]

1 minute ago, Not_a_Number said:

It's pretty unsurprising that for all but the most adamant people, being locked out of activities they'd normally participate in would be a HUGE incentive. 

People respond to incentives. If you assume they don't at all, you may as well give up on all of economics 😉 . 

This is totally true, but I admit I find it a bit depressing that there are all these people who wouldn’t get vaccinated for the sake of helping ease this pandemic and the enormous strain on hospitals or even just for their families and to keep themselves healthy, but they’ll do it in order to go to bars or restaurants or whatever.

[ktgrok]

1 hour ago, Not_a_Number said:

YAY!! WHOHOO!! KID VACCINES!! 

Please, FDA, don't hold this up for bureaucratic reasons. If there's a real issue, then of course, but no bureaucracy. 

Yes, exactly!!!! My 4 yr old still has to wait (do we have any idea how far behind the 2-4yr olds are?) but having my kid with multiple autoimmune diseases covered (and a possible immune deficiency - 1/3 of people with Celiac have a splenic immune deficiency) will be a HUGE relief. 

3 minutes ago, KSera said:

This is totally true, but I admit I find it a bit depressing that there are all these people who wouldn’t get vaccinated for the sake of helping ease this pandemic and the enormous strain on hospitals or even just for their families and to keep themselves healthy, but they’ll do it in order to go to bars or restaurants or whatever.

Same. I mean, I'll take what I can get, but it's pretty disheartening. 

[Idalou]

44 minutes ago, Syllieann said:

Wow, what do you suppose the deal is with the uninsured?  Do people not know it's free?

 That's what I was asking in the other thread. I wish I could see a breakdown of the ages of the uninsured, it just gives "under 65".  Maybe some younger people have never even been in a doctor's office? Perhaps urgent care, but not a place where they're used to seeing the same nurses or doctor. I don't feel close to mine, but there is familiarity with it, which I suppose now that I force myself to think about it, means trust. Our healthcare insurance system is such a sham. Well, I meant to write shame, but sham also is appropriate.

And in other news! Looks like the new governor of NY may be on to something. Looks like a bunch of these yappy HCW may have seen the error of their ways. Or maybe they were just the type to scream and whine for attention  and then quietly did what's necessary.

https://www.syracuse.com/coronavirus/2021/09/hochul-signs-order-on-staffing-health-worker-vaccination-rates-rise-ahead-of-mandate.html

Edited September 28, 2021 by Idalou

[kokotg]

I'm so excited about kid vaccines! I feel like I'm living in a completely different universe from people with no kids under 12 right now (a different universe from those who have been pretty cautious all along. I was always in a different universe from the covid deniers and downplayers). Their risk analysis is just so different from mine. I was talking about boosters with someone the other day who was saying she wouldn't be rushing out to get one because she's not worried about mild breakthrough cases, and I was like, "yeah, but if we bring covid home to my 8 year old, he won't be getting a breakthrough case!" I'm having a hard time not getting frustrated with well intentioned people who forget that young kids exist. 

[ktgrok]

37 minutes ago, kokotg said:

I'm so excited about kid vaccines! I feel like I'm living in a completely different universe from people with no kids under 12 right now (a different universe from those who have been pretty cautious all along. I was always in a different universe from the covid deniers and downplayers). Their risk analysis is just so different from mine. I was talking about boosters with someone the other day who was saying she wouldn't be rushing out to get one because she's not worried about mild breakthrough cases, and I was like, "yeah, but if we bring covid home to my 8 year old, he won't be getting a breakthrough case!" I'm having a hard time not getting frustrated with well intentioned people who forget that young kids exist. 

EXACTLY!!! And it really is as if everyone, including leaders, forgot they exist. 

[RootAnn]

1 hour ago, Syllieann said:

Wow, what do you suppose the deal is with the uninsured?  Do people not know it's free?

I think there are still some people don't know it is free and that you don't have to show an insurance card either. I don't know how many that accounts for, but yes. There are some.

[Dmmetler]

17 minutes ago, RootAnn said:

I think there are still some people don't know it is free and that you don't have to show an insurance card either. I don't know how many that accounts for, but yes. There are some.

It doesn’t help any that the pharmacy sites do ask for insurance info. 

[Dmmetler]

1 hour ago, kokotg said:

I'm so excited about kid vaccines! I feel like I'm living in a completely different universe from people with no kids under 12 right now (a different universe from those who have been pretty cautious all along. I was always in a different universe from the covid deniers and downplayers). Their risk analysis is just so different from mine. I was talking about boosters with someone the other day who was saying she wouldn't be rushing out to get one because she's not worried about mild breakthrough cases, and I was like, "yeah, but if we bring covid home to my 8 year old, he won't be getting a breakthrough case!" I'm having a hard time not getting frustrated with well intentioned people who forget that young kids exist. 

I’m excited about it because when 5-12 vaccines come in, hopefully my students will get vaccinated. I’ve seen so many kids get sick this fall :(. I got my booster more because I teach mostly kids in that 5-12 demographic than for me. 

[RootAnn]

3 hours ago, Corraleno said:

Pfizer submitted their application for 5-11 year olds today:

https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/pfizer-seeks-fda-clearance-covid-19-vaccine-younger-children-2021-09-28/

 

3 hours ago, Not_a_Number said:

YAY!! WHOHOO!! KID VACCINES!! 

Please, FDA, don't hold this up for bureaucratic reasons. If there's a real issue, then of course, but no bureaucracy. 

So, maybe I read it wrong, but they just submitted their data. They haven't submitted the paperwork for the EUA yet. That is supposed to come in a week or two.

ETA:  From the article: "...said they would make a formal request with U.S. regulators for emergency use in the coming weeks."

Edited September 28, 2021 by RootAnn
Added eta

[mommyoffive]

1 hour ago, kokotg said:

I'm so excited about kid vaccines! I feel like I'm living in a completely different universe from people with no kids under 12 right now (a different universe from those who have been pretty cautious all along. I was always in a different universe from the covid deniers and downplayers). Their risk analysis is just so different from mine. I was talking about boosters with someone the other day who was saying she wouldn't be rushing out to get one because she's not worried about mild breakthrough cases, and I was like, "yeah, but if we bring covid home to my 8 year old, he won't be getting a breakthrough case!" I'm having a hard time not getting frustrated with well intentioned people who forget that young kids exist. 

Yes.  It is really hard to do too isn't it?  We have a lot of friends that only have kids older than 12 and it is hard to watch what they are doing compared with what we are.  Sigh.

I am pretty sure I am going to cry because of the relief, when I get my younger 3 get vaccinated.  I can't wait.  

[Spy Car]

Here is a link to a rather unsettling article re-printed on the Scientific American website that describes preliminary findings (not yet published in medical journals or peer-reviewed) that are raising concerns about the effects of even mild cases of COVID-19 on the brain, including the potential for ongoing long-term consequences. 

Not a fun read. Sorry.

Bill

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/even-mild-cases-of-covid-may-leave-a-mark-on-the-brain/

 

[Not_a_Number]

1 hour ago, RootAnn said:

 

So, maybe I read it wrong, but they just submitted their data. They haven't submitted the paperwork for the EUA yet. That is supposed to come in a week or two.

ETA:  From the article: "...said they would make a formal request with U.S. regulators for emergency use in the coming weeks."

Drat.

[Bootsie]

3 hours ago, KSera said:

That’s a good question. I remember seeing some kind of survey many months ago that indicated that that was the case that many people, particularly in higher poverty areas, did not realize they wouldn’t have to pay for it. I have seen one strategy to increase uptake some places has been to really lean into advertising the free aspect. I also expect that no insurance is correlated with a number of other factors, like income and education level, which tend to be related to vaccine hesitancy.

Eta: I thought it was interesting the degree to which vaccines being required for travel and recreational activities has had a major impact. Even more so than requirements for jobs (which may be just a function of their being a smaller number of jobs that are requiring a vaccine at this point. I think they said about one in five jobs requires a vaccine, and about 19% of previously hesitant people cited job requirements as a major factor in getting vaccinated).

If you look at the data, the sample size for those who are uninsured is either 11 or 13.  I can't figure it out because 11 out of the entire group say they are uninsured, but then 13 are counted as under age 65 and uninsured (I don't know how they are 2 more people both under age 65 and uninsured than there are just uninsured).  So, I am not sure what you can conclude about what percent of those dozen people are vaccinated.  It could be that some in this group consider themselves young and healthy, unlikely to get sick and unlikely to need insurance.  Or, it could be these people do not participate in health programs for religious or philosophical reasons.  

More people reported concern over medical capacity/hospital resources as a reason for being vaccinated than for attending event and participating in activities.

As far as work being a major factor, the question asked if it was a major factor due to an employer requiring it--if 20% of jobs require a vaccine, it isn't surprising that about the same percentage of people listed that as a reason.

[KSera]

3 minutes ago, Bootsie said:

As far as work being a major factor, the question asked if it was a major factor due to an employer requiring it--if 20% of jobs require a vaccine, it isn't surprising that about the same percentage of people listed that as a reason.

Right. That was the point I was making.

[SKL]

1 hour ago, mommyoffive said:

Yes.  It is really hard to do too isn't it?  We have a lot of friends that only have kids older than 12 and it is hard to watch what they are doing compared with what we are.  Sigh.

I don't disagree, but the social needs of kids under 12 are a lot different from those of kids over 11.  Though I personally would not restrict my younger kids as long as they masked in close quarters (barring high risk situations).

If the 12-15 age group is any indication, don't be surprised if many/most elementary-age kids still aren't vaxed even after it's allowed.  It's maybe about 50% at the high school level.