The Vaccine Thread

[bookbard]

Interesting looking at the stats for NSW - most vaccinated group is 70-79  yr olds and least is 30-39 yr olds There are more 16-29 yr olds vaccinated (at least once). The graph doesn't show 12-15. I wonder why 30-39 is more hesitant? It's still over 88% at least. 

COVID-19 data and statistics | NSW Government

[Frances]

3 hours ago, bookbard said:

Interesting looking at the stats for NSW - most vaccinated group is 70-79  yr olds and least is 30-39 yr olds There are more 16-29 yr olds vaccinated (at least once). The graph doesn't show 12-15. I wonder why 30-39 is more hesitant? It's still over 88% at least. 

COVID-19 data and statistics | NSW Government

At least a few months ago it was similar in my state, although I don’t recall the exact age ranges, and our vax rates are lower overall. Some here speculated maybe it was due to the 30 year olds being more in the family formation years and concerned about fertility.

[bookbard]

1 hour ago, Frances said:

Some here speculated maybe it was due to the 30 year olds being more in the family formation years and concerned about fertility.

Ah interesting! You might be right.

Just heard of another local who was vaccine-hesitant who has now been vaccinated, which is great as her child attends the local school. Her husband wasn't anti and I think between job and husband she's decided to go for it, which I'm so happy about. I do think we'll reach near 90% in our area. 

[mommyoffive]

How the Covid-19 booster shots could make the vaccination gap worse (Opinion) (msn.com)

[TexasProud]

Colin Powell just died from Covid and he was double vaccinated. Makes me sad and scared.

[Insertcreativenamehere]

8 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

Colin Powell just died from Covid and he was double vaccinated. Makes me sad and scared.

It is a very sad thing and certainly tragic, but he was also in his 80s and had a type of blood cancer that impacted his immune system. 😞

Edited October 18, 2021 by Insertcreativenamehere

[TexasProud]

Just now, Insertcreativenamehere said:

It is a very sad thing and certainly tragic, but he was also in his 80s and had a type of blood cancer. 

So that makes it ok??

I am sorry. I know that isn't what you mean, but when you are dealing with a mom who is almost 80 and has stage 4 cancer, this is just scary. I am trying to be careful, but she also has to go for treatments and doctor appointments at least weekly and now 2 or 3 times a week. So yeah, it isn't so easy for me to be dismissive...oh they were just old and sick. This is my mom we are talking about.

[Dmmetler]

 

24 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

So that makes it ok??

I am sorry. I know that isn't what you mean, but when you are dealing with a mom who is almost 80 and has stage 4 cancer, this is just scary. I am trying to be careful, but she also has to go for treatments and doctor appointments at least weekly and now 2 or 3 times a week. So yeah, it isn't so easy for me to be dismissive...oh they were just old and sick. This is my mom we are talking about.

It's very scary. The fact is, people like Powell and your mom absolutely need those around them to be vaccinated to protect them, because the vaccine simply isn't enough. This is why I am so opposed to the idea of allowing medical staff to continue to work with patients without being vaccinated, regardless of their reasons. 

 

I have an adult piano student who is a child life specialist at St. Jude's hospital. I have ZERO trouble providing her with proof of my vaccination status and continuing to mask in lessons as long as she feels it is necessary, because the kids she works with are so fragile, especially now. 

[kbutton]

26 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

So that makes it ok??

I am sorry. I know that isn't what you mean, but when you are dealing with a mom who is almost 80 and has stage 4 cancer, this is just scary. I am trying to be careful, but she also has to go for treatments and doctor appointments at least weekly and now 2 or 3 times a week. So yeah, it isn't so easy for me to be dismissive...oh they were just old and sick. This is my mom we are talking about.

Hugs. It is scary to have to be out and about, even for medical care, while vulnerable.

[TexasProud]

2 minutes ago, Dmmetler said:

 

It's very scary. The fact is, people like Powell and your mom absolutely need those around them to be vaccinated to protect them, because the vaccine simply isn't enough. This is why I am so opposed to the idea of allowing medical staff to continue to work with patients without being vaccinated, regardless of their reasons. 

 

I have an adult piano student who is a child life specialist at St. Jude's hospital. I have ZERO trouble providing her with proof of my vaccination status and continuing to mask in lessons as long as she feels it is necessary, because the kids she works with are so fragile, especially now. 

Yeah, I get that and my point in the other thread was not that they didn't need to be vaccinated, just that their reasons were more nuanced and they were not evil people. 

[mlktwins]

29 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

So that makes it ok??

I am sorry. I know that isn't what you mean, but when you are dealing with a mom who is almost 80 and has stage 4 cancer, this is just scary. I am trying to be careful, but she also has to go for treatments and doctor appointments at least weekly and now 2 or 3 times a week. So yeah, it isn't so easy for me to be dismissive...oh they were just old and sick. This is my mom we are talking about.

I don't think she meant it like that, but I know you are going through so much right now.

I do want to say that as a daughter taking care of her 86 year old father and losing both of my 94 year old in-laws this spring (not to Covid), I know it is very sad and stressful what you are going through.  My dad falls a lot and now has 24/7 care in his home.  I am trying to protect him from Covid too.  But...we can only do the best we can!  There are risks when we take them to doctor's appts. and treatments.  My dad is having surgery Wednesday and he will be at greater risk being unmasked during the surgery.  But he is basically blind in one eye and his quality of life is greatly diminished by that.  I'm sorry to say we can't keep them here with us forever.  Just do the best you can and know that you don't have total control over what happens with your mom.  

[TexasProud]

4 minutes ago, mlktwins said:

I don't think she meant it like that, but I know you are going through so much right now.

I do want to say that as a daughter taking care of her 86 year old father and losing both of my 94 year old in-laws this spring (not to Covid), I know it is very sad and stressful what you are going through.  My dad falls a lot and now has 24/7 care in his home.  I am trying to protect him from Covid too.  But...we can only do the best we can!  There are risks when we take them to doctor's appts. and treatments.  My dad is having surgery Wednesday and he will be at greater risk being unmasked during the surgery.  But he is basically blind in one eye and his quality of life is greatly diminished by that.  I'm sorry to say we can't keep them here with us forever.  Just do the best you can and know that you don't have total control over what happens with your mom.  

Oh I know she didn't and I thought I said that she didn't mean it that way.

Yeah, I know.  You sound like my husband. 🙂 Good words I have to continually say to myself. Thank you.

[KSera]

2 hours ago, TexasProud said:

Colin Powell just died from Covid and he was double vaccinated. Makes me sad and scared.

This is why I have continued to worry about my early 80s parents, ever since Delta came around. They are very cautious, but I don’t think they ever got the memo that they were back to being at fairly high risk with Delta, once their shots were waning. Fortunately they have now had boosters, which makes me feel so much better.

2 hours ago, Dmmetler said:

It's very scary. The fact is, people like Powell and your mom absolutely need those around them to be vaccinated to protect them, because the vaccine simply isn't enough. This is why I am so opposed to the idea of allowing medical staff to continue to work with patients without being vaccinated, regardless of their reasons. 

Yep. Neither of my parents have any serious health conditions, but at their age they have semi-frequent small things that they go to the doctor for and some well-managed chronic conditions that still require occasional doctor visits. I would be so upset if they caught it from someone who is supposed to be taking care of them at one of these visits but hadn’t taken the necessary steps to help protect their patients. It would be like someone not using PPE around them. 
 

eta: now I just saw something explaining how patients with multiple myeloma who are receiving treatment may not mount any immune response to the vaccine. It sounds like that may have been a factor for Colin Powell. 
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1535610821003366?via%3Dihub

Edited October 18, 2021 by KSera

[Spryte]

I’m scared to Google, so am asking here. Feeling squeamish, and I’m in pain so no fortitude for plowing through and googling anyway.

I know serious vaccine reactions are unusual. I’m very pro vaccine. 

8 days after my first shot, I was hospitalized for four days with very elevated liver enzymes. They never really figured out the cause, and ultimately listed it as Drug Induced Liver Injury from meds I had taken for a UTI. (Do I need to say it was not alcohol related? It was not.) It could possibly have been from the pain meds they gave me for the pain the first time I went to the ER, too. One day I had pain and liver numbers were fine — here’s some pain meds, go home. The next day it was worse pain and bad numbers, and hospital stay. I delayed my second shot, but did get it. I still had similar pain and that continued for a good 6-8 weeks, with one more hospitalization, as we did all the follow up tests. It finally resolved, though, and I am very careful with meds and on a preventative for UTIs. No pain since July.

Now here I am again. 7 days after my booster I started having pain in the same area. 10 days after the booster, yesterday, I went to Urgent Care to have my liver enzymes checked. She poked my liver and sent me straight to the ER. They didn’t admit me, but I’m right back where I was. Same pain, but this time my liver enzymes are ok. CT scan was fine. But I’m in pain. I’m not taking anything for the pain, just hanging with the heating pad. I’m scared to crash my liver again, and don’t even take ibuprofen or Tylenol.

DH (also pro vaccine) thinks this is clearly an adverse reaction to the vaccine. I think he might be right.

Anyone hear of anything like this?

I am so bummed. I’m pretty sure my PCP will call this a vaccine reaction. I didn’t talk to her about getting the Covid shot, because she’s generally against most vaccines *for me* because of how I react to things. She advises DH to get all shots, so it’s an individual thing not an across the board opposed to shot thing. I will talk to her, and see what she says, of course.

Ugh. Any thoughts?

 

Edited October 18, 2021 by Spryte

[bookbard]

I just googled for you, there is a paper describing another person with that, but it resolved within a week. So sorry you're in pain! But it does sound like no permanent damage at least. 

[Insertcreativenamehere]

4 hours ago, TexasProud said:

I am sorry. I know that isn't what you mean, but when you are dealing with a mom who is almost 80 and has stage 4 cancer, this is just scary. I am trying to be careful, but she also has to go for treatments and doctor appointments at least weekly and now 2 or 3 times a week. So yeah, it isn't so easy for me to be dismissive...oh they were just old and sick. This is my mom we are talking about.

I certainly didn't mean to offend or to be dismissive. I'm not super regular here so I wasn't aware of your situation. My intent was more to point out that it wasn't the vaccine that failed, but that he had an underlying condition that affected his ability to fight Covid. I myself have an immune-deficient, medically complex little boy who is too young to be vaccinated at the moment and so we've been very careful all along, vaccinating the rest of us and not wanting to see him end up fighting for his life on a ventilator again. I understand your fear and concern, now that I know your mom's situation. 

[Spryte]

12 minutes ago, bookbard said:

I just googled for you, there is a paper describing another person with that, but it resolved within a week. So sorry you're in pain! But it does sound like no permanent damage at least. 

Thank you for looking. I just can’t, for some reason. Asking here is like watching a horror movie through one’s fingers, kind of covering one’s eyes but peeking. That’s how it feels, anyway.

[KSera]

22 minutes ago, Spryte said:

I am so bummed.

Argh, I'm so sorry, Spryte! I hope you come through this one more quickly and that the booster immunity turns out to be very long lasting so you don't have to agonize over the decision in the future. Where is the pain that you have?

[Kassia]

@SpryteI'm sorry you're having pain, too.  😞 

[Not_a_Number]

33 minutes ago, Spryte said:

Anyone hear of anything like this?

I am so bummed. I’m pretty sure my PCP will call this a vaccine reaction. I didn’t talk to her about getting the Covid shot, because she’s generally against most vaccines *for me* because of how I react to things. She advises DH to get all shots, so it’s an individual thing not an across the board opposed to shot thing. I will talk to her, and see what she says, of course.

Ugh. Any thoughts?

I haven't heard of this specifically, but the range of vaccine reactions I've heard about (from reliable, pro-vaccine people!) has been really large. Given that you have a history of bad reactions to vaccines, and given that it has now happened twice, I would guess you're right that it's a vaccine reaction 😕 . 

[Spryte]

16 minutes ago, KSera said:

Argh, I'm so sorry, Spryte! I hope you come through this one more quickly and that the booster immunity turns out to be very long lasting so you don't have to agonize over the decision in the future. Where is the pain that you have?

Right flank pain. And if you look at a pic of the liver it would be also on the top part of it near the center of the body, and around into the back. It occasionally refers pain down my leg. Docs can find it right away — which is a big Ouch!

I vaguely recall that the shot can increase inflammation in some of us. I have had a lot of surgery in that general area, and I have known issues with adhesions. My PCP is trained in visceral manipulation, and actually stretches the scar tissue sometimes (ouchy, but helps after). This feels different from that pain, but I wonder if extra inflammation could be an issue if there’s no where for expansion because my organs are sort of glued together as it is? But that’s a wild, wild guess. I have no idea.

This time isn’t as bad as last time, I hope it stays that way.

I don’t know what to do about future shots. The three I’ve had were Pfizer. And I have huge, big, bad side effects — but all shots do that to me. I expected to be flattened by the Covid shots so it wasn’t a surprise. It’s the pain a week+ later that’s disturbing.

Ugh.

 

[Not_a_Number]

1 minute ago, Spryte said:

I don’t know what to do about future shots. The three I’ve had were Pfizer. And I have huge, big, bad side effects — but all shots do that to me. I expected to be flattened by the Covid shots so it wasn’t a surprise. It’s the pain a week+ later that’s disturbing.

Ugh.

I actually know quite a few people with either lingering or delayed reactions. It's really a vaccine that packs a punch. 

(I don't know anyone who's had to be hospitalized or has had really bad symptoms for a long time, for what it's worth. But people who talk about symptoms mostly being 24 hours... well, that's probably true as a median, but I know many many people outside that range.) 

Edited October 18, 2021 by Not_a_Number

[kbutton]

@Spryte, I would say the pain is a vaccine reaction. If your enzymes are not elevated with pain but are elevated when you take pain relievers, the enzymes are because of the meds. But then, would you have higher enzymes with pain relievers normally, or did the shot cause your liver to be more reactive? Possibly.

But that's how my mind would work out the what ifs since some meds can cause elevated liver enzymes. 

Adhesions are persnickety, and I wouldn't put anything beyond the reach of "weird effect of adhesions" given stories I've heard, including being mobilized to torment you by the Covid vaccine. I get the impression that adhesions adhere to everything but rules.

I hope you feel better soon! 

 

[Dmmetler]

1 hour ago, Spryte said:

I’m scared to Google, so am asking here. Feeling squeamish, and I’m in pain so no fortitude for plowing through and googling anyway.

I know serious vaccine reactions are unusual. I’m very pro vaccine. 

8 days after my first shot, I was hospitalized for four days with very elevated liver enzymes. They never really figured out the cause, and ultimately listed it as Drug Induced Liver Injury from meds I had taken for a UTI. (Do I need to say it was not alcohol related? It was not.) It could possibly have been from the pain meds they gave me for the pain the first time I went to the ER, too. One day I had pain and liver numbers were fine — here’s some pain meds, go home. The next day it was worse pain and bad numbers, and hospital stay. I delayed my second shot, but did get it. I still had similar pain and that continued for a good 6-8 weeks, with one more hospitalization, as we did all the follow up tests. It finally resolved, though, and I am very careful with meds and on a preventative for UTIs. No pain since July.

Now here I am again. 7 days after my booster I started having pain in the same area. 10 days after the booster, yesterday, I went to Urgent Care to have my liver enzymes checked. She poked my liver and sent me straight to the ER. They didn’t admit me, but I’m right back where I was. Same pain, but this time my liver enzymes are ok. CT scan was fine. But I’m in pain. I’m not taking anything for the pain, just hanging with the heating pad. I’m scared to crash my liver again, and don’t even take ibuprofen or Tylenol.

DH (also pro vaccine) thinks this is clearly an adverse reaction to the vaccine. I think he might be right.

Anyone hear of anything like this?

I am so bummed. I’m pretty sure my PCP will call this a vaccine reaction. I didn’t talk to her about getting the Covid shot, because she’s generally against most vaccines *for me* because of how I react to things. She advises DH to get all shots, so it’s an individual thing not an across the board opposed to shot thing. I will talk to her, and see what she says, of course.

Ugh. Any thoughts?

 

Do you have a past history of ELE? Elevated liver enzymes and epigastric pain has been reported on my HELLP syndrome survivors group as a side effect of COVID infection, so if it's happening with the vaccine, that might indicate it's a reaction to the immune response, not to the infection itself. 

[Spryte]

8 minutes ago, kbutton said:

@Spryte, I would say the pain is a vaccine reaction. If your enzymes are not elevated with pain but are elevated when you take pain relievers, the enzymes are because of the meds. But then, would you have higher enzymes with pain relievers normally, or did the shot cause your liver to be more reactive? Possibly.

But that's how my mind would work out the what ifs since some meds can cause elevated liver enzymes. 

Adhesions are persnickety, and I wouldn't put anything beyond the reach of "weird effect of adhesions" given stories I've heard, including being mobilized to torment you by the Covid vaccine. I get the impression that adhesions adhere to everything but rules.

I hope you feel better soon! 

 

Thanks!

I’ve never had elevated liver enzymes with meds, only the time right after the first shot. But then again, since that episode, when I was terribly ill, wow, I have been incredibly cautious with any meds. No NSAIDS at all, and only necessary stuff. Id like to think it was all vaccine related and I can go back to taking meds again, fevers and headaches. That would be a bonus, kind of.

I’m laughing out loud at what you wrote about adhesions! So true!

[Spryte]

1 minute ago, Dmmetler said:

Do you have a past history of ELE? Elevated liver enzymes and epigastric pain has been reported on my HELLP syndrome survivors group as a side effect of COVID infection, so if it's happening with the vaccine, that might indicate it's a reaction to the immune response, not to the infection itself. 

I don’t have a history of ELE that I know of, but I do have a wonky immune system and a slew of autoimmune issues. What is HELLP?

It’s good to hear I’m not the only one reporting this. Is there anything that seems to help it calm down, that you’ve heard, by any chance?

[kbutton]

26 minutes ago, Spryte said:

Thanks!

I’ve never had elevated liver enzymes with meds, only the time right after the first shot. But then again, since that episode, when I was terribly ill, wow, I have been incredibly cautious with any meds. No NSAIDS at all, and only necessary stuff. Id like to think it was all vaccine related and I can go back to taking meds again, fevers and headaches. That would be a bonus, kind of.

I’m laughing out loud at what you wrote about adhesions! So true!

I think @Dmmetler's information makes a lot of sense. If it's causing this in people prone to it for other reasons (or vulnerable due to past damage), then you might be fine taking the meds at other times. 

My only experience with ELE is that mine were mildly elevated on routine bloodwork for years with no explanation. They also just went down recently with no explanation all of the sudden. Mysterious buggers. (I had all the signs and symptoms of pre-eclampsia, but "lite"--not enough to label it so, but if they checked my liver enzymes during pregnancy and found them elevated, they never told me, and back then you had to beg for lab results vs. a "you're fine" from most docs.)

[KSera]

Good news!

F.D.A. to Allow ‘Mix and Match’ Approach for Covid Booster Shots

[kbutton]

You can't attend this private school for 30 days if you get vaccinated. 

Quote

In April, a Miami private school made national headlines for barring teachers who got a coronavirus vaccine from interacting with students. Last week, the school made another startling declaration, but this time to the parents: If you vaccinate your child, they’ll have to stay home for 30 days after each shot.

The email from Centner Academy leadership, first reported by WSVN, repeated misleading and false claims that vaccinated people could pass on so-called harmful effects of the shot and have a “potential impact” on unvaccinated students and staff.

...

Centner Academy is in Miami’s ritzy Design District, and tuition ranges from about $15,000 to nearly $30,000 per year. The school has become a haven for anti-vaccine parents because it does not require any immunizations for enrollment, citing a parent’s “freedom of choice” and falsely claiming there are “unknown risks associated with vaccinations” that could harm children.

A similar sentiment was shared in an email to parents last week regarding the coronavirus vaccine. School leadership referred to the shots as “experimental,” WSVN reported, and encouraged parents considering vaccinations for their child to wait several more months until the school year ends.

“We ask that you hold off until the summer when there will be time for the potential transmission or shedding onto others to decrease,” Centner Academy leaders wrote.

The article includes a photo of the school's awning, which has a picture of a brain and says, "The Brain School." 

[Dmmetler]

3 hours ago, Spryte said:

I don’t have a history of ELE that I know of, but I do have a wonky immune system and a slew of autoimmune issues. What is HELLP?

It’s good to hear I’m not the only one reporting this. Is there anything that seems to help it calm down, that you’ve heard, by any chance?

A Cascade of symptoms during  pregnancy or soon after delivery, on top of Pre-eclampsia/Eclampsia. The name comes from the symptoms-Hemolysis, Elevated Liver Enzymes, Low Platelets. I'm in a group of women who are being followed long term, as are our surviving children. 

[Ausmumof3]

On 10/17/2021 at 3:21 PM, bookbard said:

Interesting looking at the stats for NSW - most vaccinated group is 70-79  yr olds and least is 30-39 yr olds There are more 16-29 yr olds vaccinated (at least once). The graph doesn't show 12-15. I wonder why 30-39 is more hesitant? It's still over 88% at least. 

COVID-19 data and statistics | NSW Government

It may be less hesitancy and more that that age group are typically in the busiest stage of life with the work parenting juggle so it’s further down the list of priorities.

[Spryte]

40 minutes ago, Dmmetler said:

A Cascade of symptoms during  pregnancy or soon after delivery, on top of Pre-eclampsia/Eclampsia. The name comes from the symptoms-Hemolysis, Elevated Liver Enzymes, Low Platelets. I'm in a group of women who are being followed long term, as are our surviving children. 

Thank you. That sounds so difficult. I have a boatload of issues, very familiar with cascades of symptoms, but have never been pregnant—or perhaps would have recognized the name. I think I’ve seen you mention it before in these threads, and wondered as some of it seemed familiar. 

I think you are onto something with this being a reaction to the immune response, too. That fits. (Sigh)

I wonder if others with this extreme reaction will have the same type of shot again, if more boosters are needed? I feel very confused about what to do moving forward.

For tonight, I’m just glad to be home and not at the hospital again!

 

 

[bookbard]

1 hour ago, Spryte said:

I wonder if others with this extreme reaction will have the same type of shot again, if more boosters are needed? I feel very confused about what to do moving forward.

Could you look at getting a different type of vaccine, a non mRNA one? There was some evidence that mixing vaccines led to a higher immune response.

[Mom_to3]

2 hours ago, bookbard said:

Could you look at getting a different type of vaccine, a non mRNA one? There was some evidence that mixing vaccines led to a higher immune response.

That would be my feeling, too. Who knows what will be available by the time we need another booster (Novovax?)

My booster was a big nothing burger. Some arm pain, redness, some thirst in the middle of the night, a few yawns, but overall...nothing. DH on the other hand had about 14 hours of first chills, then a bad headache, thirst, but stomach fullness/constipation, major fatigue and sleeping during the day. THird day still not quite back to normal. His second shot was also much worse than mine.

I've been trying to see if no or few side effects are correlated with low antibody response, but only was able to find one paper with a very small sample size saying that it didn't matter. Isn't that the kind of thing we should know by now?

Edited October 19, 2021 by Mom_to3

[ktgrok]

6 hours ago, Mom_to3 said:

That would be my feeling, too. Who knows what will be available by the time we need another booster (Novovax?)

My booster was a big nothing burger. Some arm pain, redness, some thirst in the middle of the night, a few yawns, but overall...nothing. DH on the other hand had about 14 hours of first chills, then a bad headache, thirst, but stomach fullness/constipation, major fatigue and sleeping during the day. THird day still not quite back to normal. His second shot was also much worse than mine.

I've been trying to see if no or few side effects are correlated with low antibody response, but only was able to find one paper with a very small sample size saying that it didn't matter. Isn't that the kind of thing we should know by now?

Anectdotally, the two family members of mine that had breakthrough infections has no side effects from the vaccine. But, they also has more exposure, so who knows. 

[Wheres Toto]

12 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

It may be less hesitancy and more that that age group are typically in the busiest stage of life with the work parenting juggle so it’s further down the list of priorities.

This is what I was thinking.  I'm strongly pro-vaccine but when I was younger and had young children and/or a job, it wouldn't have been high on my list.   Now that my kids are older, it was easier to schedule around work, knowing I could rest after if I needed to.  If I was responsible for watching young children all weekend, I probably would have hesitated more or had to wait until I could make arrangements for someone else to take the kids if needed.  

[SKL]

13 hours ago, Spryte said:

I wonder if others with this extreme reaction will have the same type of shot again, if more boosters are needed? I feel very confused about what to do moving forward.

 

One thought is to get your titers checked - a couple weeks after the shot, and again around the time you may be considering another booster.  Either you don't benefit from the shots, or your benefit wanes, or your benefit doesn't wane much.  That would help you decide, I think.

[ScoutTN]

I got an antibody test, which as expected, showed antibodies to the spike protein bc I have been vaxed. 
But there is no help to interpret the numerical value. 
 

Under 0.8 is negative. My score was 2000 something.
 

Anyone know about this?

Edited October 19, 2021 by ScoutTN

[mommyoffive]

Why didn’t Powell’s vaccine work? - by Katelyn Jetelina - Your Local Epidemiologist (substack.com)

Bottom Line: Unfortunately Colin Powell died because of a deadly combination of an incurable cancer, old age, weakened immune system, and exposure to a deadly virus. The vaccine couldn’t save Colin Powell, but we could have. His death is a reminder of how serious this pandemic is and that we need to everything in our power to protect the 5.5 million immunocompromised around us.

[Pawz4me]

22 minutes ago, ScoutTN said:

I got an antibody test, which as expected, showed antibodies to the spike protein bc I have been vaxed. 
But there is no help to interpret the numerical value. 
 

Under 0.8 is negative. My score was 2000 something.
 

Anyone know about this?

Antibody tests can't give answers you want about Covid 19 immunity (WaPo)

I don't understand the continued reliance on/talk about antibody testing. The experts have said over and over and over again that they simply don't know how to accurately interpret them. They've said that all along. I wouldn't put any trust at all in a Covid antibody test at the moment. I hope sometime down the road they will be able to tell us about immunity, but based on every single credible thing I've read we're just not there yet.

 

[SKL]

1 minute ago, Pawz4me said:

Antibody tests can't give answers you want about Covid 19 immunity (WaPo)

I don't understand the continued reliance on/talk about antibody testing. The experts have said over and over and over again that they simply don't know how to accurately interpret them. They've said that all along. I wouldn't put any trust at all in a Covid antibody test at the moment. I hope sometime down the road they will be able to tell us about immunity, but based on every single credible thing I've read we're just not there yet.

The same can be said about vaxes though.

I can't see any good reason to ignore the fact that one has antibodies from having had a Covid infection.

But I have come to realize the vast differences in how people view pharmaceuticals.  I have a very less-is-more view, but I see many on here with apparently a more-is-more view.  I respect their right to their opinion, but I don't see much respect the other way around.

[Pawz4me]

6 minutes ago, SKL said:

The same can be said about vaxes though.

I can't see any good reason to ignore the fact that one has antibodies from having had a Covid infection.

 

I don't understand the correlation you're attempting to make. The same can be said about vaxxes?? I don't know what you mean, or how it relates. The science on vaccines is totally different than the science on antibody testing, AFAIK.

Antibody testing is a legit thing. I have Avatar Dog tested for canine distemper and parvo. Those diseases have been known and studied for a very long time. Science has been able to do the studies necessary to determine what constitutes a protective antibody level. When I have him tested I can know with a good degree of certainty whether he has a good degree of immunity or not.

Covid 19, on the other hand, has been around for less than two years. My understanding is that isn't an adequate length of time for the scientists to do the studies needed to determine what titer level represents an adequate level of protection.

[KSera]

46 minutes ago, SKL said:

The same can be said about vaxes though.

I can't see any good reason to ignore the fact that one has antibodies from having had a Covid infection.

But I have come to realize the vast differences in how people view pharmaceuticals.  I have a very less-is-more view, but I see many on here with apparently a more-is-more view.  I respect their right to their opinion, but I don't see much respect the other way around.

The same can’t be said about the vaccines. We have tons of data on illness rates in people with and without the vaccine. We know the vaccine keeps most people out of the hospital. We don’t yet know what level of antibodies someone needs to show in order to indicate that they are unlikely to get sick or hospitalized. Or even whether measuring antibody levels alone tells us anything about how protected someone else is at all. We think that it should, but we don’t know yet. Hopefully eventually we will.

I also don’t think it’s accurate or fair to claim that people have a “more is more” approach to pharmaceuticals just because they want to be sure they are adequately vaccinated against Covid. This isn’t a headache or cramps or a head cold (I only take pain medication for the former if I get desperate, and never take any medications for a cold, fwiw). This is a potentially fatal illness. Would you accuse a diabetic of thinking “more is more” when it comes to pharmaceuticals because they carefully control their blood sugars and make sure they are taking sufficient insulin to do so?

[Spy Car]

On 10/15/2021 at 12:15 PM, Corraleno said:

Advisory panel recommends 2nd shot of J&J for ALL recipients (not just over 65 or high risk) "at least 2 months" after first shot. They are basically saying that this is a second dose, not a booster. Presumably the CDC's advisory group will also approve it next week when they meet to discuss Moderna's booster, and if the FDA finalizes the approval then boosters of all three should be available by next weekend.

The only odd thing is that having a double dose of J&J was known to increase its efficacy for months and months.

Were they just slow bringing the data forward? Or did they seek to remain being a "one shot" deal?

Bill

 

[bluemongoose]

4 minutes ago, Spy Car said:

 

Or did they seek to remain being a "one shot" deal?

Bill

 

I think this is the real deal. They could see their efficacy numbers were not as high as the mRna ones and they had to come up with a marketing strategy to get people to want their shot over the others. So they marketed the "one shot" deal. IMO it is all about money, not what is best for the customer.

Edited October 19, 2021 by bluemongoose
clarity

[BeachGal]

If you’re concerned about waning immunity, you can get a Covid t-cell test.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2021/09/210902124937.htm

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/fda-authorizes-cell-test-game-changer-covid-19/story?id=76318248

Most antibodies will break down. They should or you could develop a type of cancer. Other immune cells will be lurking about to make antibodies if they detect the Covid virus again.

[Dmmetler]

14 minutes ago, bluemongoose said:

I think this is the real deal. They could see their efficacy numbers were not as high as the mRna ones and they had to come up with a marketing strategy to get people to want their shot over the others. So they marketed the "one shot" deal. IMO it is all about money, not what is best for the customer.

And, realistically, I know people who got J&J because it was a one-shot deal, especially younger adults. I know the local college did some vaccine clinics just for J&J because they could more easily entice students in for ONE shot, and could get them that shot before sending them out in the community at large at the end of the semester, but simply couldn't complete the full cycle. 

 

I do hope that most of those who have gotten J&J will now get a second vaccine-and it looks like getting a single mRNA dose as a second shot is a really, really awesome combination. 

[Spy Car]

29 minutes ago, bluemongoose said:

I think this is the real deal. They could see their efficacy numbers were not as high as the mRna ones and they had to come up with a marketing strategy to get people to want their shot over the others. So they marketed the "one shot" deal. IMO it is all about money, not what is best for the customer.

But would they make more money from one dose vs two? Or would people turn to the mRNA vaccines if they had to take two? I dunno.

J&J still seems like a good vaccine and potentially appealing to those who prefer a more traditional technology. Plus the easier distribution requirements.

It does seem that this should have been considered a two dose vaccine for quite some time.

Bill

 

[bluemongoose]

3 minutes ago, Spy Car said:

But would they make more money from one dose vs two? Or would people turn to the mRNA vaccines if they had to take two? I dunno.

J&J still seems like a good vaccine and potentially appealing to those who prefer a more traditional technology. Plus the easier distribution requirements.

It does seem that this should have been considered a two dose vaccine for quite some time.

Bill

 

Maybe I am cynical, but yes, I think they knew it aught to be a 2 dose shot and went with 1 to entice more people to use theirs to begin with over the mRna ones. Then later, after the others started saying boosters they said well ya, ours needs a second shot too. But the feeling behind it is the unsaid, well at least it isn't 3 shots like the mRna ones. And the behind the curtain is that while it is good and effective and everything... they knew it is not as high of an efficacy as the others. They also knew that adenovirus vector vaccines cause blood clots. I do think they knew they would have to find something that made theirs more appealing. Most people are not going to care about the storage issues in the US. They don't think about that aspect as they expect it to be handled for them. 

 

I agree with your other statements...it is a good vaccine and is appealing for those who want more traditional vaccines.

My beef is with the false claims made by them and the CDC and FDA that it was a great vaccine and just as good as the others with just one shot and then given to high risk people who really needed more coverage. At least that is what happened in my state. And now I am trying to convince family members who are over 65 with high risk issues that they need to get another shot. They are stuck in the "one shot" sales pitch they were given and think they are fine. 

 

 

[Laura Corin]

1 hour ago, Spy Car said:

The only odd thing is that having a double dose of J&J was known to increase its efficacy for months and months.

Were they just slow bringing the data forward? Or did they seek to remain being a "one shot" deal?

Bill

 

Yes. I've always seen j and j as being similar to AZ in technology.  I've had the initial two AZ jabs and will soon have a Pfizer booster.