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Another update on my divorce

Home'scool

By Home'scool,
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Home'scool

Home'scool

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Seriously, if you guys are all getting sick of my saga just let me know. I helps me to type things out and your words of support definitely bolster me, but I don't want to wear out my welcome, KWIM?

So anyways, I FINALLY received my STBX's settlement offer. He has supposedly been working on this since June. My lawyer received it on Friday but actually held it over the weekend because she was "horrified by the contents" --> that's a direct quote from her email.

His "offer" includes:

  • Me paying him $35,000 for half the "sweat equity" he put into the house. (What?!?!)
  • Me paying him back for the overpayments he feels he has been making in my alimony, even though the judge awarded it and denied his appeal. This is about $40,000
  • He will take out a $700,000 life insurance on himself with me as the beneficiary but reduce it by $70,000 every year until it's worth nothing 
  • Me paying him back half of the mortgage payments for the 12 months he lived in the house alone. Like I could have lived there with his crazy mistress peeking in windows and stalking the house! He also wants half of all the utilities he paid during that time.
  • Me paying for half the college tuition for our youngest daughter's senior year. Never mind that she lived with me and I paid all her expenses.
  • Reducing my current alimony payment by almost half.

And a bunch of other completely punitive charges. These charges add up to well over $200,000 which I don't have. So he offered to take it out of my half of the 401K, leaving me with a pittance in the retirement account,

I have been doing a lot of reading about divorcing a narcissist and it is like he is following a playbook. "Do not expect a reasonable offer that you can work with" and "the narcissist will take a 'scorched earth' approach to negotiations".

According to the offer I have 2 weeks to decide, and I have to either accept the whole offer or nothing, otherwise we will go to trial in 2019. So I have turned it down (don't really need 2 weeks to think about it) and am just settling in for the long haul. 

 

 

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umsami

umsami

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I really wish we had an angry option for responding to posts.

Can you say, "Hello NPD"? 

ChumpLady.com can offer some humor to get through it.  One Woman's Battle has some good stuff, too.  (An oldie, but goodie from ChumpLady that recently got some press on Reddit.  Language warning.  OW=other woman  https://www.chumplady.com/2017/10/dear-chump-lady-im-ow-im-terrified-will-cheat/). 

Edited by umsami
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Home'scool

Home'scool

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Wow! My mom was a family law attorney. She's had several clients like your husband. Had one where she was trying to get him to settle. He said that he'd rather the attorney get all of his money than his ex. 

This sounds like the direction he is going in. It's just scary to be in a struggle with someone who has this mentality. I really thought that the loss of his relationship with his daughters would keep him from losing it completely but even that hasn't stopped him. It's just scary all the way around.

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G5052

G5052

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That's really tough. I'm going through something similar although we are informally separated. What you're experiencing and other factors are why I haven't pushed for a legal separation. Our basic financial needs are met, and I'll do fine in the long run. It's just hard now. 

Take a deep breath. Although this looks nothing like compromise, it wouldn't be forever. 

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umsami

umsami

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One possible option to get things settled sooner (and possibly cheaper, just because sooner) would be private adjudication if allowed in your state. Think of it as a private judge.   Usually a retired judge.  Both parties agree to abide by the outcome.  It is binding from what I remember.   Ask your attorney about it.  Might at least end all this sooner.

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Home'scool

Home'scool

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Like, you’d swear you did something truly heinous to deserve all his drama and ire instead of raise his kids and take care of his home for severa decades. What the actual F?  

I can’t even.   Every time you post about him it gets worse and worse. NO don’t stop posting for  support and updates.  But I PRAY he stops acting like a psycho or the trial commences swiftly and you nail him to the wall.  Like, this makes me see red on your behalf.  

 

I know, that's what all my friends say. HE is the one who cheated. HE is the one who initiated the divorce. He just wants it all.

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Home'scool

Home'scool

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One possible option to get things settled sooner (and possibly cheaper, just because sooner) would be private adjudication if allowed in your state. Think of it as a private judge.   Usually a retired judge.  Both parties agree to abide by the outcome.  It is binding from what I remember.   Ask your attorney about it.  Might at least end all this sooner.

 

 
I will definitely ask about this. I just worry about changing judges because the judge we have now has been so good to me, but maybe this could be a good way to speed things up.
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umsami

umsami

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Just going to put this out there. If you have a friend who is cheated on, please buy her Chump Lady's book, "Leave a Cheater, Gain a Life"...or at minimum, direct her to her Facebook/website.  You will save her a ton in therapy.  Best thing out there. Seriously. ❤️ 

She writes a lot about NPD.... the "pick me" dance...where cheaters make you think you're in a contest with the other woman...because it feeds their ego.... etc. 

 

 

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Carol in Cal.

Carol in Cal.

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I think it’s tactical.

Do not let this move you toward his side of what is fair as a ‘compromise’.

He’s playing business hardball.  You know who he is.  Don’t let this move you.  If anything, it’s time to double down for MORE than what is fair, to demonstrate that this type of behavior will not be rewarded.  Seriously, consider doing this.

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Lecka

Lecka

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I’m so sorry.  Try not to let him get to you.

Something I often think of, is a saying about a person who can’t be wrong.  If he can’t be wrong, then it must be your fault.  If that’s how his mind works — it is so irrational. 

He sounds really irrational, for whatever reason.

I’m sorry for your kids too, that he is acting this way, how hurtful!  It’s really sad for all of you ?

Edit:  I agree with pp also.  Do it for your kids’ sake too, it will help them to see that you can be strong when he is acting like a bully!

Edited by Lecka
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MinivanMom

MinivanMom

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2 hours ago, Home'scool said:

 

I will definitely ask about this. I just worry about changing judges because the judge we have now has been so good to me, but maybe this could be a good way to speed things up.

 

If you have a reasonable judge who can see through your stbx's bs, then it's probably best to continue with the path you are on now.

I will be honest and say that I laughed out loud when I read your stbx's "offer". Anyone with even a passing experience with divorce would laugh at that "offer". Go ahead and take it to trial. Your stbx can't drag it out forever, and at this point, he's just making himself look like an irrational bully. 

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madteaparty

madteaparty

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He wants to win. Hence the life insurance thing, I mean it probably costs more time to revise the policy every year than just pay the relatively minor premiums.  Scorched earth indeed but settle in for the long haul because he can afford to retain lawyers that long. Thank your lucky stars you have no custody issues with this prince. 

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Home'scool

Home'scool

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But seriously, I have to ask... do you feel safe? Do you believe your daughters are safe? Because his actions aren't just mean. They are irrational and disturbing. Please be careful. 

I did feel safe until he showed up at my attorney's office last week demanding to see her and refused to leave. That was a new level of irrational for him. Now I am much more aware of my surroundings when I leave work. I really could not even begin to predict what he may do next.

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Chris in VA

Chris in VA

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4 hours ago, Arctic Mama said:

Like, you’d swear you did something truly heinous to deserve all his drama and ire instead of raise his kids and take care of his home for severa decades. What the actual F?  

 

I can’t even.   Every time you post about him it gets worse and worse. NO don’t stop posting for  support and updates.  But I PRAY he stops acting like a psycho or the trial commences swiftly and you nail him to the wall.  Like, this makes me see red on your behalf.  

This. (bold and color mine)

Edited by Chris in VA
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Faith-manor

Faith-manor

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4 hours ago, Arctic Mama said:

Like, you’d swear you did something truly heinous to deserve all his drama and ire instead of raise his kids and take care of his home for severa decades. What the actual F?  

 

I can’t even.   Every time you post about him it gets worse and worse. NO don’t stop posting for  support and updates.  But I PRAY he stops acting like a psycho or the trial commences swiftly and you nail him to the wall.  Like, this makes me see red on your behalf.  

Arctic has said exactly what I think. We, the Hive, would like to collectively puke on his "offer" and send it back to him.

Boy I wish we could......

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Rosie_0801

Rosie_0801

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4 hours ago, umsami said:

One possible option to get things settled sooner (and possibly cheaper, just because sooner) would be private adjudication if allowed in your state. Think of it as a private judge.   Usually a retired judge.  Both parties agree to abide by the outcome.  It is binding from what I remember.   Ask your attorney about it.  Might at least end all this sooner.

 

I wouldn't, because of the bolded. 

If he has NPD, he wants to go all the way.

 

Trials aren't fun, but they don't kill you.

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Hen

Hen

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I've been following your saga, and I'm rooting for you!  I can't believe how horrible your ex has become!  I'm joining in all dark thoughts...homeschool mom wrath burns... ?

thinking good thoughts for you, please keep us updated on things, specially important dates,so we can pray for you!  

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G5052

G5052

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Yes, private adjudication or mediation isn't going to fly well with NPD. I've consulted but not retained a local lawyer who is familiar with NPD/BPD, and she said that those approaches typically drag it out even longer than a court date with a judge. Note "typically." She had several cases where the disordered individual was very eager to marry again and suddenly wanted to get it over with. 

She advised me to hold tight as long as I'm fine financially. I currently don't have full-time work with benefits, and she keyed on that as well as several other factors.

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Home'scool

Home'scool

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Yes, private adjudication or mediation isn't going to fly well with NPD. I've consulted but not retained a local lawyer who is familiar with NPD/BPD, and she said that those approaches typically drag it out even longer than a court date with a judge. Note "typically." She had several cases where the disordered individual was very eager to marry again and suddenly wanted to get it over with. 

She advised me to hold tight as long as I'm fine financially. I currently don't have full-time work with benefits, and she keyed on that as well as several other factors

 

I figured this out after sitting 3 times with a mediator. We would talk and wrangle with terms and then, at the end of the meeting, I would realize that NOTHING was really accomplished and anything we had decided on (like paying off the credit cards) would never get done because he would never provide the paperwork. He is really, really good with talking a lot but not ever really saying anything of substance.

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shawthorne44

shawthorne44

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On 9/11/2018 at 2:03 PM, madteaparty said:

He wants to win. Hence the life insurance thing, I mean it probably costs more time to revise the policy every year than just pay the relatively minor premiums.  Scorched earth indeed but settle in for the long haul because he can afford to retain lawyers that long. Thank your lucky stars you have no custody issues with this prince. 

 

Well, he could keep the same benefit amount, and just change the beneficiary %.  So, year 2 she gets 90% and someone else gets 10%.    That can be changed often without a charge. 

My theory is that her never planned on keeping a policy at all.   What is to stop him from cancelling the policy when the divorce is final?  She wouldn't find out until he was dead, and at that point what does he care?  
 

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Scarlett

Scarlett

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11 minutes ago, shawthorne44 said:

 

Well, he could keep the same benefit amount, and just change the beneficiary %.  So, year 2 she gets 90% and someone else gets 10%.    That can be changed often without a charge. 

My theory is that her never planned on keeping a policy at all.   What is to stop him from cancelling the policy when the divorce is final?  She wouldn't find out until he was dead, and at that point what does he care?  
 

Well, she could be the owner of the policy and that way he could not cancel it.  But I agree you can't trust him.

OP has lucked out in that the judge ordered her alimony to be taken from the house sale proceeds that he also ordered held in trust...so she at least got something out of the deal.  Many women end up with literally NOTHING when men like this decide to use the court system to stall and delay for years.  Also, OP be soooooooooooo thankful you don't have to deal with child support and custody issues with him.  Shudder. 

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G5052

G5052

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8 hours ago, Home'scool said:

I figured this out after sitting 3 times with a mediator. We would talk and wrangle with terms and then, at the end of the meeting, I would realize that NOTHING was really accomplished and anything we had decided on (like paying off the credit cards) would never get done because he would never provide the paperwork. He is really, really good with talking a lot but not ever really saying anything of substance.

Yes, we spent a huge amount crafting trusts because he kept editing the documents and questioning the lawyer on every little detail. Then three years later we updated them and spent yet  more with more edits. He left three months later. It all seems like a waste, to say the least.

So that was my model for what mediation might look like. Thankfully mine are both over 18, so no custody issues.

Edited by G5052
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Scarlett

Scarlett

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On September 14, 2018 at 4:30 PM, G5052 said:

Yes, we spent a huge amount crafting trusts because he kept editing the documents and questioning the lawyer on every little detail. Then three years later we updated them and spent yet  more with more edits. He left three months later. It all seems like a waste, to say the least.

So that was my model for what mediation might look like. Thankfully mine are both over 18, so no custody issues.

My feeling on mediation is that if mediation would work the divorcing couple would not need a mediator. 

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bolt.

bolt.

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34 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

My feeling on mediation is that if mediation would work the divorcing couple would not need a mediator. 

Mediation works when both people have the same goal, and they are just working on “how”. It doesn’t work when one person’s goal is to hurt, control, and punish the other one.

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G5052

G5052

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On 9/17/2018 at 9:01 AM, bolt. said:

Mediation works when both people have the same goal, and they are just working on “how”. It doesn’t work when one person’s goal is to hurt, control, and punish the other one.

 

Exactly. Basically when it is a relatively peaceful situation with people who don't have disordered thinking. Mediation can be cheaper than going to court and lets the couple work out the terms versus putting it before a judge who rules the way they see it. It's an option when there are some areas of disagreement that need to be resolved but some agreement on the rest. The mediator makes sure that every area is covered.

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Scarlett

Scarlett

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3 hours ago, G5052 said:

 

Exactly. Basically when it is a relatively peaceful situation with people who don't have disordered thinking. Mediation can be cheaper than going to court and lets the couple work out the terms versus putting it before a judge who rules the way they see it. It's an option when there are some areas of disagreement that need to be resolved but some agreement on the rest. The mediator makes sure that every area is covered.

My limited experience with it was a joke.  I would never recommend it.  I know some courts, maybe most, now require it  before taking it to a judge, but I hated it.  

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G5052

G5052

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2 hours ago, Scarlett said:

My limited experience with it was a joke.  I would never recommend it.  I know some courts, maybe most, now require it  before taking it to a judge, but I hated it.  

Not required here. I got the impression from the lawyer I consulted that she mostly goes to court even though she's a certified mediator as well.

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