ILiveInFlipFlops Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 nt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethel Mertz Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 I think I would go ahead and give them the mini-van. It's a risk, sure. But I would do it because I believe in paying it forward. I would remind myself to trust that I have "enough" (back up plan) if and when things got financially tight for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jewellsmommy Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 Were you guys looking at the possibility of getting a newer car anyway any time in the next year or so? If so, and if this were close family like my sibling, someone I can trust, then yes I would do it. If keeping your current car for at least another year or two were the plan, then I would be hesitant and really be sure you can afford to change plans. If this were more distant family that I was not sure about then no. Will this family keep the car and maintain it at least moderately well? If not, then it won't last them and they are back where they started and you did it for nothing. Would they try to sell it or trade it in in an unwise financial move? If so, then same problem. If you do trust them, could they borrow the car for a month or two, while you make do with one family vehicle and see if your predictions of your dh's business picking up due to spring come to fruition? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 No. No car. No cash. You can't afford it. I feel sorry for your family members, but from a financial standpoint, you should absolutely, positively not even remotely consider doing this. You are NOT responsible for these people, but you ARE responsible for trying to create financial security for your own family. What if your dh gets injured and can't work for a while? What if something big goes wrong in the house and there are huge expenses? There is nothing selfish about taking care of your own family first. You simply aren't in a position to start taking care of someone else's family as well, and I think it would be a terrible decision to give away your car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alicia64 Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 No. No car. No cash. You can't afford it. I feel sorry for your family members, but from a financial standpoint, you should absolutely, positively not even remotely consider doing this. ​ ​Phew. I'm so glad Cat said it. I was thinking it. If you can't give these guys money and trust them to do the right thing with it -- then there are bigger problems at play here. ​ ​I would look at the big picture. I would look as long term as I possibly could. ​ ​I just seems that you're potentially putting your own financial health at risk for people who may not be learning here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 It depends upon why they are in that *really* tight spot. if they have a pattern of behavior of jumping into holes, getting bailed out, and finding new holes to jump into before they're even dry - no way. otherwise, if it is outside circumstances that truly are outside their control and came out of the blue (as in, not something that would even have occured to them to prepare for - e.g. an old car needing to be replaced as opposed to someone else running a red light and totaling their car), I would take into consideration, but not a guarantee. I may seem harsh - but I grew up in a family where constantly bailing of problem children was a way of life. it didn't help them change their behavior to more responsible, but the person bailing could go around saying how wonderful and loving they were to bail them out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marbel Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 It would depend on so many things: - your family's relationship to the other family. Will this help keep/bring you together or might it cause resentment? - how tight would you be? So tight you couldn't feed your family, or tight enough that vacation would be out this summer? - A red flag for me is that other family members cautioned you not to give cash because they might not spend it wisely. So.... if you give them a vehicle will they take good care of it, or run it into the ground because they'll be able to hit you up for something else when it's dead? - Where are other family members in this? Could the entire family pitch in to get them a car so it's not all on your family. - Are you and your husband in agreement about it? Is one or the other of you going to be angry about it later if things don't work out, and blame the other? Of course it is wise to watch out for our own finances and if it did put you in a position of, say, having to deplete your emergency fund to do it, I would say no. But I would have a hard time turning down family members who truly need help if I was able. I have done so in the past, made loans that never got repaid, etc. I've never regretted it (but I've also never put myself and my family in a precarious position over it). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 ​ ​Phew. I'm so glad Cat said it. I was thinking it. If you can't give these guys money and trust them to do the right thing with it -- then there are bigger problems at play here. ​ ​I would look at the big picture. I would look as long term as I possibly could. ​ ​I just seems that your potentially putting your own financial health at risk for people who may not be learning here. :iagree: If the rest of the family says not to give them money, they must realize that perhaps these people are in bad financial straits due to bad decisions or excessive spending in the past. I'm not hearing that they have no money because they had to spend it on expensive medical treatments to save a sick child. I guess I just don't understand why you feel so obligated to help them, so I hope you can clarify that a bit. I hope you don't think I'm being mean to you -- I think it's incredibly kind, sweet, and generous to even consider something like this. I just think you may be letting your heart overrule your common sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fraidycat Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 I wouldn't in this case. If they are not to be trusted with cash, chances are they have put themselves into this situation vs. a catastrophic event. A free vehicle will probably not be taken care of properly and they could end up back in this same situation soon. That said, if it were my family members I do, in fact, HAVE an extra vehicle already that is just sitting - I might give that to them. But the decision for a new vehicle was already made a year ago so our future finances would not be affected by helping out this family. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILiveInFlipFlops Posted April 12, 2014 Author Share Posted April 12, 2014 nt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 Very, very difficult decision, and I've been there more times than I care to remember. The thing is that it's never "just this once," and when it is your turn to struggle, you're on your own. For the small bucks, I'm easy, but for the big bucks, I try to find some other way to help so it isn't extremely lopsided. Is there anything they can do to help you in exchange for you giving them the car? Like maybe do something worthwhile with your kids, etc., especially if it could save you some money? What about just lending them your car until they save up for another used car of their own, and then if it turns out you have a good year, you could give it to them for Christmas or something? Several years ago, my brother asked me to lend him a significant sum of money for his daughter's first year of college at an expensive school. I could "afford" it, but there was no plan for the following years, no plan for paying it back, and no consideration for the fact that I have other nieces/nephews as well as my own kids to eventually help. I gave it some thought and decided that I'd give each of my nieces/nephews a fixed sum of money to use for college when their time came. The amount was not large enough for my niece to attend the fancy college she wanted. She ended up attending the "lousy" state university I went to. (Sniff.) But you know what? It is not my responsibility to finance other people's kids' education. I have to put my kids first, because nobody else is going to do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnM Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 If they have no health insurance, I would assume they won't carry auto insurance either. That would bother me if I were giving them a van that could potentially carry my family through a few more years. Can you give them some gift cards to a grocery store? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILiveInFlipFlops Posted April 12, 2014 Author Share Posted April 12, 2014 nt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILiveInFlipFlops Posted April 12, 2014 Author Share Posted April 12, 2014 nt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lea1 Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 In the situation you describe, I would definitely help them out by giving them the van. I would be careful to not go overboard when I selected a new-used car for myself though, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marbel Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 Of course you want to check with them about the car insurance, but if you gave it to them you would change the title so your name would no longer be associated with it anyway. If you were going to loan the car for a time you should check with your insurance. Not having health insurance isn't necessarily an indicator of their plans for car insurance. In every state I've lived, car insurance is mandatory while health insurance is not (well I don't know about the current status of that with ACA). I know a lot of people who have car insurance but no health insurance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoobie Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 If you were already buying a new car and were going to donate the old one or sell it for peanuts, then by all means pass it down to a family member who could use it. But I would not take on unplanned debt to buy a car for the sole purpose of giving yours away. I missed something about health insurance, but if they're both working bare minimum retail, they should qualify for significantly subsidized or even free premiums. Especially with SN kids. Are the kids eligible for SSDI? You could help them navigate finding additional resources. When the car was totaled by the car accident, was there a car insurance payout? Helping them find a reliable "beater" car or even pledging to chip in a couple hundred to that would put you in a less precarious financial spot. Can they even afford to insure, license and title your minivan? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 If they need a vehicle to transport a special-needs child, possibly there is a subsidy for that. Have they checked into this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MomatHWTK Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 If I were purchasing a new(er) vehicle for myself, then I would consider giving the older vehicle to someone in need. But I would be hesitant to rush my own purchase for that reason. Let things happen as they are meant to happen so you know you made a solid decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlmiraGulch Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 I would help them. I would not put myself in a position where I could not take care of my own family's needs to help someone else, but that doesn't sound the like that would be the case here. I also cannot believe all of the people who seem to have conditions attached to their giving. It seems odd to me. If I give someone something, what they choose to do with it afterward is entirely up to them. I have never regretted helping anyone. Not one time. Not even when they "squandered" the gift. That's not on me. My children have seen me give money to the homeless and asked why I would do that when they may just go buy alcohol or something. I say yes, they may, or they may buy something else, or they may give it to someone who needs it even more than they do, or whatever. I don't care. It's none of my business at that point. What I do know is that I'm out a few bucks that I would have spent on someone else, when it could have made a huge difference in the quality of that person's day. If not? So, what. It didn't cause me any harm. This case is obviously a bit different, considering it's a vehicle and not a few bucks, but the sentiment is the same. If the OP and her husband decide to extend a hand to family about whom they obviously care, then they are out the same vehicle whether the family uses the car for another couple of years or crashes it the next day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mama Geek Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 How will you react if you give them a car and then see them making financial decisions that you don't agree with, and this would especially be something to carefully consider if you end up having harder times than you anticipate? You don't have to answer that on the forum but you and your dh should answer it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jewellsmommy Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 I would help them. I would not put myself in a position where I could not take care of my own family's needs to help someone else, but that doesn't sound the like that would be the case here. I also cannot believe all of the people who seem to have conditions attached to their giving. It seems odd to me. If I give someone something, what they choose to do with it afterward is entirely up to them. I have never regretted helping anyone. Not one time. Not even when they "squandered" the gift. That's not on me. My children have seen me give money to the homeless and asked why I would do that when they may just go buy alcohol or something. I say yes, they may, or they may buy something else, or they may give it to someone who needs it even more than they do, or whatever. I don't care. It's none of my business at that point. What I do know is that I'm out a few bucks that I would have spent on someone else, when it could have made a huge person in the quality of that person's day. If not? So, what. It didn't cause me any harm. This case is obviously a bit different, considering it's a vehicle and not a few bucks, but the sentiment is the same. If the OP and her husband decide to extend a hand to family about whom they obviously care, then they are out the same vehicle whether the family uses the car for another couple of years or crashes it the next day. I do actually agree with this sentiment when it comes to giving gifts and when it comes to donations to causes or entities. Situations like this are different though. If you don't consider the consequences of your assistance then you risk enabling a problem and/or squandering a precious commodity, I believe thinking through all the options is the responsible thing to do here. Giving help or assistance is different than giving gifts. We have helped many individuals through the years. We have opened our home, given money, given food, and we have actually given a car. Unfortunately, we learned the hard way that some of our good intentions ended up more damaging to those we desperately wanted to help in the long run. We think a little more broadly now and have fine tuned the process. It is not about attaching strings, micro-managing or control. I will give money to a homeless man if I don't have anything else. What he does with it is up to him, but if I have bottled water and food, I'll give that first. We generally keep made up bags available for such occasions. There are 3 reasons for this. One, because I am not buying single items but in cases or bulk, $5 spent my way will buy more then $5 spent buying in individual quantities. Therefore he gets more for what I have available to give. Two, it is right there where he is. He doesn't have to walk to a store or wait all day to eat. Three, it removes the temptation of vices, alcohol, or drugs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marbel Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 <snip> Tight enough that, assuming business does NOT pick up, we could live simply and have everything we need for awhile, but not everything we want. <snip> I'll be honest, this is a bit of a game-changer for me. Of course you and your husband have to decide what is best. We are all posting from our own experiences and biases and not everything is going to be a perfect fit. Only you can decide your own circumstances and the risk involved in helping (which from your followups sounds minimal). But when you say you will have everything you need, but not everything you want... Of course I don't know exactly what you mean by that. I don't assume you are living an extravagant lifestyle. But there is value to living for a time not being able to buy everything we want. The first half of my married life (so far) we were able to buy pretty much whatever we wanted. We weren't wealthy and didn't fit most peoples' idea of extravagant because we didn't want a lot, but we never hesitated to go away for a weekend, out to dinner, buy new books/music all the time, buy nice food and wine without too much regard for prices. (OK, we weren't buying hundred-dollar bottles of wine, but nice enough stuff.) We did give to charity too; we didn't only spend on ourselves. Then we made some decisions about our life that put us firmly in the camp of buying based on need, not so much on want. The food budget tightened up; we still eat well enough though we do miss good lamb chops and ribeyes. Book budget smaller than it used to be? There is the library. Not in the library? Can I get it used? Can we do without it? Etc. When I think about some of the things we spent money on I could kick myself. Except giving. I never regret giving. We are no less happy now and possibly we are more content. It's been good for my kids too. Just saying. :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tammyla Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 I would not rush to do this, but if your dh's work situation does pick up, then I would do it. We actually did give an older car to a family member a few years back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmyontheFarm Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 If you give them the car, this may sound snarky, have them pay you for it, a token sum, like $1. Then go right then and there and have all the paperwork changed over to their name, There could be a fee for that; cover the cost of doing that. One good point is that by allowing them to buy it from you it allows them to "save face" a bit. They can tell people they bought it off of you at a great price and just never name the price. :) Truthfully, I wouldn't give it to them. I'd pay some money to lower their house taxes at the tax office, send pizza gift cards for a treat. But be careful, please. When we helped out one sibling, the next sibling expected us to do the same. Which was crazy because they make more money then us! There were hard feelings when we said no and then accusitions that we loved one more than the other. I finally understood the definition of "whackadoodle". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mergath Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 If they have no health insurance, I would assume they won't carry auto insurance either. That would bother me if I were giving them a van that could potentially carry my family through a few more years. Can you give them some gift cards to a grocery store? Car insurance is far less expensive than health insurance. I don't really think there's any connection between the two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle My Bell Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 Dave Ramsey would say no. No debt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 Don't get me wrong, I think giving is nice and I don't regret doing it. I've given a lot of $$ both to family and strangers. And when I say a lot, I'm talking much much much more than an old car. And that's with me living very frugally - more frugally than some of the people enabled by my donations. I've had one of the recipients laugh at me for living "like Mother Teresa with only 2 saris" - and then turn around and ask me for more money. Another one would constantly say "it must be nice" every time I did anything for myself (which would have been travel, because that's the only thing I ever did for myself in those days). A habit of giving is admirable and healthy and wise, but a habit of asking and receiving is none of those. Having watched people do this for decades and still never stop being "in need," I've decided to be more careful about saying "yes." I don't give less, but I do give more carefully. In some cases it's more for their happiness than for mine. I don't know whether any of that is relevant here, because the OP has clarified that the person in need has not *asked* for help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justasque Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 You might consider looking up the blue book value of the van, and offering to sell it to the family at a discount. Presumably they got some kind of settlement from the insurance, though that usually is not enough to replace the car. How much you would discount the van is up to you, but in that way you are more clear as to exactly what you are offering, they have the choice whether buying the van makes sense (vs. public trans, taxi, etc.), and the whole thing will be a transaction rather than a gift, which may help with emotions from any future fallout on both sides. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PinkyandtheBrains. Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 I'm glad the family member who chose to give us their old vehicle when we were in need were not nearly so judgmental of our family choices nor did they attach conditions to the gift. I'd give them the car. It sounds like it isn't going to cause any serious hardship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Peregrine Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 My DH gave one of our cars to a stranger once. We probably would do it for family, as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 I'd give the car in a heartbeat if I was sure it wouldn't leave me strapped. I got the impression the OP was concerned about possibly having trouble paying the bills if she bought a new car. Maybe I misunderstood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QueenCat Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 I would find a way to help that would not put my own family's financial health at risk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandylubug Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 If it involves you going into debt. Nope, I wouldn't do it. If it involves you spending a little less cash on a newer used car vs what your original budget was and you are ok with that, sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 I'd give the car in a heartbeat if I was sure it wouldn't leave me strapped. I got the impression the OP was concerned about possibly having trouble paying the bills if she bought a new car. Maybe I misunderstood. I was thinking they could pay the bills, but if her dh's business doesn't pick up in the Spring, things could get tight. The thread title mentioned "potentially tight financial spot," so my definition of that is probably similar to yours, which is "not financially secure," and IMO, if their finances are tight enough that they are depending on business picking up, they're not in a solid enough position to give away a car. What if business doesn't pick up, or if her dh gets sick or injured and can't work, or if there's a big sudden household or medical expense? It doesn't sound like they have a financial cushion to support them in the event of an unforeseen situation. I think it's nice to be generous when you can afford it, but in this case, I just don't think it's a wise decision because they can't afford it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxbridgeacademy Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 Fifteen years ago my uncle gave me a car, on payments. My poor daddy had to end up paying off the car because I was a flake(just a few $100). I've been much more responsible since. So, everyone deserves a chance. If it were my sister, I would no questions asked. Even though I knew she'd run it into the ground and never pay me back (ask me how I know this is what would happen, Karma, right?) Things to think about: the working parent is in need of a way back and forth to work before he/she looses their job? The baby has Doctor appts.? Or can they do without for awhile? If they can go without then I'd wait to make sure your DH's business picks up. If they can't go without, could you and other family members pitch in to help them back and forth for a bit? If all other options are out then yes, I'd give it to them. I would not loan it to them. With my name still on the title and registration I would be responsible for accidents/injuries. So make sure they have enough $$ to transfer title and plates. Make sure YOU see them send in title and you remove plates. This would be expected and should not offend. I would remind them that I'm not responsible for maintenance and seeing that the car is older they need to take care of it. Then I would put it out of my mind and start looking for something affordable to replace it. I would not expect payment or accept it either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abba12 Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 I also grew up in a family where we helped each other out a lot, I remember my parents giving my uncle a place to stay, and the limits placed on that since he WAS a moocher. I also remember the schemes my dad and grandad would get into together. I know grandad gifted dad a very large sum of money when my sister died, and dad has returned that generosity now my grandparents are retired, and they used to go in on things together, splitting the risks and benefits. My point is, I've seen how it can go bad, my uncle has never paid anyone a cent, and he has been given a lot over the years. But I've also seen that it can be good and generous, and I am not necessarily against the idea of sharing hardship among family and going without to help. For me there would be two deciding factors. Are they in this mess of their own doing? And are they asking for the car (or rather, do they have a pattern of asking for money). We recently put ourselves in some moderate financial hardship to help my father who, admittedly, had made some mistakes with money since mum left, but he acknowledged them, was definitely changing things, and we knew the money was going to serious needs. We also knew he had a long history of generosity himself with money and I knew he was pretty devastated at having to ask one of his children for help because of poor decisions made when emotionally unstable during the separation. I'm not at all saying these are requirements for helping someone, just giving an idea of the attitudes and dynamics involved in this specific situation. Things were a bit tight for everyone for a few months but we never hesitated, we knew it was the right thing to do and don't regret it at all. On the other hand, right now we won't even consider lending money to our in laws until they realize their standard of living needs to change. They are forever complaining about money while they drink wine and show off their newest purchase and serve expensive foods. They even criticize our frugality and talk about how awful this or that 'cheap' brand is compared to theirs. They had a genuine, out of their control hardship occur, their business collapsed, but instead of dealing with it they continued on as they always have. Now mil, who has stayed home with the kids most her life is out working, and they're trying to make me feel guilty for being at home and insist its not possible to live on a single income these days. They earn far more than we do. So, no, we don't trust that any help we give would be used in a wise way, we think it would just enable them and we can't help them in a practical way until they accept theirsituation and begin helping themselves first. So, if this mess is not of their own making, and if they are not in the habit of asking people to bail them out, then I would give them the car happily. Though, in the specific situation of a car, have you considered selling it to them for a very good price rather than gifting it? Could they afford that? It might help with some of the relational and emotional stuff on all sides and it would take away some of the difficult dynamic, because they'd be helping themselves, you'd just be giving them a great deal, to your loss, to help them out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unicorn. Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 I stopped reading replies. I would do it. If they had a car until the accident, I assume they had insurance on it, so could afford insurance on the van. From everything you have said about them, these aren't irresponsible people, just hard working people who are struggling to survive. I say do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corraleno Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 As someone who has twice given my older cars to people who needed them, I would definitely do this — especially since it seems like it's for a hardworking family who are in a bad way through no real fault of their own. I wouldn't put my own family at risk of being hungry or homeless, but from what you've said it sounds like you will still be able to get by even if your DH's business doesn't pick up. I grew up dirt poor, and I have relatives who live paycheck to paycheck, so I know how easily people in those circumstances can go from just-getting-by to falling apart — losing transportation can mean cutting hours at work or even losing a job, losing the income means getting behind on payments, which can mean losing your home, etc. One bad thing can start a chain reaction that can be hard to stop. So, yeah, I would definitely be giving this family my older car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nd293 Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 No. For one thing, you've implied that they don't make wise decisions, so I'd assume that they'd get into other tight spots in the future and then look to you for 'rescue'. Secondly, you have to make good decisions for your own family, and potentially putting your family in a right financial position doesn't seem wise to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audrey Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 I would do it. I have done something very similar recently. I would do it again, especially for family. It's family. To me, that's a no-brainer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 If the car had liability insurance only, there possibly was no pay out. [edit]Sometimes people just need a break. Not everyone in a bad financial situation is totally ignorant scum of the earth out to scam family members. However, you should not feel emotionally manipulated to give them a car - doesn't sound like you are, but...Giving removes any strings or requirement. I like the idea of selling it to them for $1, it's a psychological thing. Should you do it? I don't know. Sometimes, even when things are tight we take from our lack and try to help others, that's family and community. Sometimes you get screwed in the process, but if you give in the right attitude, that's what matters. You and your dh have to decide what you're willing to delay or risk in this act of giving. Life is hard at minimum wage. I believe in karma, sowing and reaping, however you want to title it. Give and it shall be given unto you. It doesn't say give and then judge and micromanage the item you gave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lang Syne Boardie Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 I would probably go ahead in this case. If it meant potential carlessness, homelessness, and loss of health care or education for my own family, then I wouldn't -- because how does it help anybody for there to be two impoverished families now? But you (seem to be) talking potential belt-tightening, not a real risk of poverty for your own family. In that case, I would give them the van and be very, very modest in my choice of a new vehicle. Partly because when people are working poor, losing that car can be the thing that sends the family over the cliff entirely. Hard time getting to work, hard time getting kids to school, doctors' appts, etc...that can be one disastrous snowball and I'd want to help them avoid that. I agree with the PP that they don't sound like people who are lazy or ill-intentioned. They're just poor. They managed with the car they had and they'll be able to keep managing at that level with their new van. BUT...if it's possible there can be a subsidy for medical transportation for special needs dc, I'd be pursuing that option first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mamaraby Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 I'm glad the family member who chose to give us their old vehicle when we were in need were not nearly so judgmental of our family choices nor did they attach conditions to the gift. I'd give them the car. It sounds like it isn't going to cause any serious hardship. I wish I could like this post more than once. I couldn't agree more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truscifi Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 Assuming you mean giving up some extras for your family and not potentially not having money to live on, yes I would do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphus Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 I think you should. You were considering replacing it anyway, so now is as good a time as any, and the effect of no transportation could send them into a worse spot quickly if they miss work. Van pools, buses and cabs are not realistic in most parts of the country, at least anywhere in the us I've lived. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RanchGirl Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 If you were getting a new car anyway and trading in your old vehicle, and just giving up the trade-in value to give them your old vehicle, then I would happily give it to them. But if you are going to get a new car several years earlier than you otherwise would, that is taking on a large unnecessary expense and I wouldn't do that unless I was much more confident in your family's financial fitness than you sound. As in a good-sized savings fund for possible emergencies. Also be sure that you are fine with whatever they do with your gift - if they don't take care of it, if they sell it for $20, etc. You have to be able to give it away freely with no strings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa in Australia Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 No I would not do it at all. Dh gave a considerable amount of money to his "poor" sister when he went to visit his family last time. it was supposedly in exchange for using her car while he was visiting, turned out that his mother had given over $1000 to the same sister for the exact same thing( so DH could borrow her car for a few weeks) . the whole family has been giving the "poor" relative money for years to help her out of this mess or that mess. Turns out that her and her husband's income is 4x our income, plus they are drug dealers on the side. Believe me I was pretty upset (Though didn't tell DH) here we have been struggling by, I have never bought new clothes , all our furniture is from op-shops, we live way below the poverty line, skimp and save on everything and DH gave his sister hundreds of dollars which she blows and then goes begging from their mother for more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carrie12345 Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 I can imagine people I would do that for, and people I wouldn't. From what you've shared, I have a feeling I'd put these people in the "would" category. But you have to trust your gut and be sure you can handle it if they disappoint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaithManor Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 We would consider it, definitely, for the right siutation. But, we wouldn't do it ahead of schedule in terms of replacing our vehicle since that affects our immediate family. So in your situation, we would be waiting to see if business picked up, and we could afford the next car. We would look at options for getting state help for transporting special needs children, whether or not we could drive them to some of their appointments, carpooling for work, etc. We would possibly move up the time line if not having transportation would cause either of them to lose their jobs which would be a disaster and especially since it sounds like these are people who are trying. In the long term, I would want to look more at ways to help them make a change for themselves for the better. Are they capable of getting more job training? If so what is available at the local CC? Could he get a mechanics license, could she get a CNA license? Locally, CNA's get $1.50 more per hour than minimum wage. That amounts to $60.00 gross - and at their income levels they would pay very little into the system - per week. That nearly $240.00 a month of extra take home pay could be a real lifeline to them. If the cost of the program is $1000.00, then I would consider the possibility of paying for that or splitting the cost amongst relatives with the caveat that she must complete the program or there will be no further assistance, period. Is he capable of going through any of the management training programs for the fast food restaurants? I knew a guy who makes $50,000.00 a year as a day manager at a Pizza Hut. That's a lot more than minimum wage. If their inability to earn more is due to severe learning disabilities or low IQ, then it might be possible to get more state assistance through disability and other programs which could ease their situation quite a bit. For our niece who had a baby and the daddy bailed, since she was doing everything she possibly could to be responsible including going to CC part-time plus working two part-time jobs because that was all she could get without more training, we paid her gas going to and from school and the one job that was further away than she liked, and her car insurance. My brother donated a car to his daughter and kept it running. This allowed her to keep her head above water enough to NOT move in with a man that was probably going to turn out to be a very, very bad person. But, she was considering doing that because she felt desperate. She couldn't move home - my brother is married to a horrible, mean, abusive narcissist - and she couldn't move in with my parents because it was too far from work and my mom was having some health problems at the time that would make it difficult for her to get enough rest and have a toddler in the house. Eventually, she was able to get about $250.00 a month in child support from the father. He is low income so she couldn't get more. But, with family assistance, utilities assistance from the state, and WIC, she is making it. She graduates with an associate's degree in May, and will also have her massage therapy license. She's been offered 20 hrs. per week at a chiropractor's office, can also take private clients, and will keep her 20 hr. per week receptionist position. The higher pay at the chiropractor combined with the private clients and keeping the other job will allow her to move ahead without any more help from the family unless of course something really unexpected and expensive happened and again, wanting what is best for our grand-niece, we would do what we reasonably could for her. My niece is very excited to soon be financially independent. She's an excellent mother, no drinking, drugging, partying, or stupid financial decisions. She just found herself in a bad situation and needed a leg up in order to get ahead and provide for her child. My one nephew, on the other hand, has turned into an alcoholic. Until he agrees to rehab and alcoholics anonymous meetings, he will be allowed to hit rock bottom because no one is willing to throw money down the "pickle your liver" hole. I doubt he'll live past 30 if he keeps it up. He is drinking that much, and sometimes driving under the influence too...a situation there is no way we will support with assistance. But, he knows we love him dearly and that IF he'd let us drive him to the rehab center, and IF he'd check in and complete the program, his family would do more for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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