My son found his birthmother on Facebook -- update

[ktgrok]

So, when dd was 12 she needed new pajamas. I told her that after Daddy got paid, we would get pajamas. Then one day I put on a pair of pants I hadn't worn for a while and found money in the pocket. So, to surprise dd, I went out and got pajamas and gave them to her when she came home from wherever she was.

 

She was FURIOUS with me. Why? Because I LIED to her. I said we would get pajamas AFTER Daddy got paid, and here I went and bought them BEFORE he got paid!

 

That story is now legendary in our family.

 

 

Yes, she's 19 and going off to college next week. She's much better, but I still have to remind her, "That's not the truth, that's just how you are choosing to see it so you can justify being angry at [whomever]."

 

That sounds just like something that my Aspie would do/say. I remember once I arranged for DH to stop and pick up pizza (my son's favorite meal) on his way home, to surprise DS for doing well on a test or some such thing. DS asked if DH was stopping anywhere on the way home, as he wanted him to pick up something from the store if he was going by there. I said no, he wasn't stopping. Well, when he walked in with the surprise pizza DS had a total melt down because we lied to him, he DID stop somewhere and we said he wasn't. I explained it was a surprise. He didn't care, it was a lie. I explained that he wasn't stopping at a store, so couldn't have picked up the item DS wanted anyway. He didn't care. Was just furious he'd been lied to. I'm pretty sure I posted about it on here at that time, lol. 

[Halftime Hope]

That story is now legendary in our family.    Oh, Tara.  Sending you virtual hugs.   It's helpful to have a story like that to encapsulate just how twisted the reality is for some kids.  What hurts is when you have tens or hundreds of those stories.   I wish I had a label for some of the ridiculous behavior we've endured: it's not RAD, but it is definitely a warped reality and just plain contrary behavior that started in the mid-teens and has gotten worse.  And I wish there were a way to make our family member seek help, but there isn't.   

 

 

Yes, she's 19 and going off to college next week. She's much better, but I still have to remind her, "That's not the truth, that's just how you are choosing to see it so you can justify being angry at [whomever]."    I'm glad things are getting better.  I think they are getting a bit better in our family, too, but it's slow going.  If I had a nickel for every time I've said your words, I'd be going away for a nice weekend someplace relaxing.  ; )

 

Best wishes!

 

[Rose in BC]

Quick update. Just got off phone with my sister. She picked him up at 11:30, took him to lunch, took him shopping and even got him over to her house. At her house she showed him her downstairs and told him that's where he could stay if he wanted or needed a place.

 

She ended up buying him some jeans and socks and underwear along with the shoes. And a few groceries.

 

Ds (who has always had stomach issues) did tell my sister he was having issues (I think constipated). I'm guessing he eats very little produce and he's always been a poor drinker of water.). So she gave him some Metamucil and reminded him to drink water.

 

Overall she affirmed what we've known forever. My boy does/cannot believe we all love him. This is well known to me. He has often told me he doesn't "feel" loved. Dr says symptom of RAD. But my sister was a good advocate.

 

He doesn't believe birth mom as a mental illness.

 

He told my sister that he is confused having two moms.

 

My sister did an outstanding job. And the icing on the cake! My niece took him for dinner. By himself. (Haven't heard feedback from that yet.)

 

Another day. (Eldest son has been clammering to visit his birth sister. He has OCD so doesn't easily take no for an answer when het gets fixated on something. I told him we would take him maybe in fall (his bio sister lives in same town as where ds is now.. All my kids were adopted from same city. ). I want to say "please son, I can only deal with one family reunion at a time :)!")

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

Oh, your sister did a great job! You're so lucky someone you trust is near him. This is a good update (even if it means he's confused and struggling some :().

 

[Catwoman]

I'm so glad to hear that your sister got to spend so much time with him! :)

[aggieamy]

Whew.  I'm relieved to hear some positive news. 

 

((HUGS))

[Melissa in Australia]

:grouphug:

[Spryte]

:grouphug:

[Cinder]

Thanks for the update. Your sister and niece are just the best! :thumbup:

 

[AmyontheFarm]

I'm glad she got him over to her house.  He will now know and understand that he had a place nearby to land if he ever needs it.  That's good.

[Mango]

You're doing a fantastic job, MOM! Kudos to you for parenting your child through this decision of his. Consequences now are tough, but perhaps the future will be easier because you allowed him this freedom. 

[mom2scouts]

I think it's a good sign that he is confused by having two MOMS. Despite the biological connection to the other woman, he knows that you are really MOM.

[fairfarmhand]

So glad that you have a good update. This may be a long journey, but I pray that you and he will come out the better for it.

[jennynd]

Any news?

 

Hugs Rose. Thinking and praying for you

[Rose in BC]

No update. I know he's back in the city his birth mother lives (as opposed to where his birth sister and my sister and niece live). I know this because he answered my question, are you in (city) with a "yup".

 

So for the first time he's with his birth mother alone. And now the pressure starts...registering him for school, etc. I would say the party will end quickly but I honestly didnt think he'd last as long as he has.

 

It also means sporadic communication and no family contact.

 

Thanks for asking.

[Guest inoubliable]

:grouphug:

[Melissa in Australia]

:grouphug:

[mamakelly]

Lots of hugs!

 

[mamakelly]

Lots of hugs!

 

[TammyinTN]

Hang in there!  :grouphug:  Loads of prayers for you and your son.

[mommaduck]

Hugs and continued prayers for you. So many don't realise that finding family has both good and bad points that require a certain level of maturity to deal with.

[jelbe5]

We are still thinking of you and your son. As hard as it may be for you not to have regular contact, reality may hit sooner if he is totally alone with birth mom and begins to live a routine of school and home. I am guessing he may begin to realize that the problems he struggles with are still there in spite of the fact he has "moved".

[UmMusa]

Like many others, I've also been following your story.  So he's just moving in with his bio mom and starting school there?  What an unexpected turn of events for you all.  It looks like he is trying out something new and hopefully will do just fine.  Maybe he needs time to balance out his feelings for your home vs his feelings for his biological family.  This situation *almost* reminds of how a teen child feels when his parents divorce. You need time to reconcile all sorts of feelings and relationships.  It's not easy on anyone involved, but it just takes time.

[Tammyla]

Thanks for updating us, Rose; I image this just gets more and more difficult for you to understand.

 

I hope once life in the real day to day world vs. summer vacation fun settles in he experiences a reality check.

 

 

 

No update. I know he's back in the city his birth mother lives (as opposed to where his birth sister and my sister and niece live). I know this because he answered my question, are you in (city) with a "yup".

So for the first time he's with his birth mother alone. And now the pressure starts...registering him for school, etc. I would say the party will end quickly but I honestly didnt think he'd last as long as he has.

It also means sporadic communication and no family contact.

Thanks for asking.

 

[Catwoman]

Thanks for the update, Rose.

 

I'm glad he will be alone with his bio mom for a while, and she will have to deal with registering him for school, making sure he gets up early in he morning and out the door in time, etc. And he will have to go to a new school and meet new people and handle his schoolwork, homework, studying, and tests with no help from you.

 

I'll bet reality will start to set in for him pretty soon after school starts. And the same for his bio mom. It's easy to be the "fun parent" during summer vacation, but the day-to-day issues and responsibilities during the school year may hit her like a ton of bricks.

[Renthead Mommy]

What happens if she doesn't get him up or make him go to school?  If it's not a priority to him, will it be one to her?  

 

I think you said going to school was manditory for his staying there as per social services. But what happens if he doesn't? I know they can't force him home to you.  But if he doesn't go, does that cut off money to her?  Oddly that sounds like the best thing.  She doesn't wake him up, force him to go in the morning.  He's happy, she's happy, life is easy.  The money gets cut off, social services tells him why it is cut off because he doesn't go to school.  Suddenly she starts forcing him to get up and go.  Hopefully he'd see where her priorities are, if that is actually where they are. 

[Word Nerd]

I hope this serves as a reality check for all of them, that his eyes are opened to the truth, and that he will see things as they really are at home as well as where he is now.

[Rose in BC]

Any money coming from social services is contingent on school attendance. If he doesn't go, social services will cut off funding.

 

I predict that will happen. School has always been a disaster for him. I homeschooled until grade eight....I cried every single day...and I'm not exaggerating. He has been to three public schools, including one "alternate" school that supposedly accommodates kids like him.. It didnt work. I don't know how a very large public school with no idea of his need for an individual educational plan is going to work for him.

 

His biggest factor in not succeeding in school....attendance. I could not make him go. Really. I wished you'd all know in real life. I am a fairly strong woman. And I get along with virtually anyone (i have to say virtually because I'm having a little problem with son's birthmother :)).I work as a senior manager in local government. I supervise people. I could not make my ds go to school. RAD is an unreal experience. If you've never had a RAD child, well it's hard to believe their behaviour.

 

Next to a lack of attendance was an unwillingness to do what the teachers asked him to do.

 

I hope I'm wrong and this school will be the miracle solution. But I kind of doubt it.

[jelbe5]

You already know what will happen. He might go . . . for a while. But nothing else has changed. Once he quits going and the $ is gone I bet birth mom will be singing a different tune. Be prepared for her to call you again to tell you that you need to "make" him go to school . . . or send money. Hang in there . . . I think things will deteriorate very quickly.

 

ETA - could he attend an alternative school that focuses on teaching a trade? I used to work at such a school and I saw teen boys who could not read or write and acted out because of that. But they excelled at the Vo-Tech part of their day. It gave them some confidence and hope. Just a thought.

[Guest StephenH]

I am not a parent but I am following the adoption and social media trend on my own time.  I am not an attorney either but I have done some of my own research on this.  I am also a disability rights advocate and a former  technician and computer network administrator.  

I wanted to respond to Rose in BC and TaraTheLiberator.

 

First of all, we have a case in which the adoption world has not caught up to modern technology.    Facebook, Myspace, Xanga, Bebo, Google+, e-mail, YouTube, and other social media technologies are essentially unsealed sources of information, which are privately owned.  The fact that these sites are privately owned (corporations) makes them not under the same privacy laws as adoption agencies, child protective services, etc.   Many of them have a minimum age of 13 or 14 to create a profile.   Combine this with The powerful search capabilities of these sites that allow you to easily find people all over the world.  Combine this with the photos uploaded online on these sites, and other information on them, such as groups and friends lists.  This makes keeping birth family contact a court sealed secret till the child is 18 nearly impossible.    The more technicial saviness, reading comprension, memory capacity, rebelliousness, etc the child acquires, the amount of control social services has over restricting contact diminishes.   Even if a child's name is changed at the time of adoption doesn't prevent the child from initating contact, nor does it prevent the birth parents from finding their child who has been given up for adoption.  Something as simple as knowing one childhood friend who is not adopted and searching their friends list can be enough to find their new name.  Send a friend request, then accept it, and then sending an address and then type it into Mapquest.com, and the child would have enough information to make a reunion.   Sometimes Googling their name can locate a contact e-mail or phone number.    Internet contact does not go through the child protective services lettterbox system and is not censored or monitored.

The thing to realize, as the adoptive parents still have CUSTODY until the child is 18 in most cases.    For the birth mother to gain custody it would take a court to turn it over.    So legally the adoptive mother can legally go get their child, and if the visit was over a certain length, you most likely have a kidnapping case here.  

As to proceed from this point, I would first recommend that you use whatever means you have to get your child back to your house.   This may require a road trip or purchasing an airplane ticket. At least you know where he is.    


Then next would have a frank conversation WITH YOUR CHILD about how to proceed once he is back home.    Essentially you now have an OPEN ADOPTION from this point forward (even if it was originally a closed adoption).    The fact that your child obtained your birth parents contact information in an unauthorized manner does not change the fact that he/she has had face to face contact and knows their contact information now.   The chance of hiding the child's birth family now, with a teenagers memory capacity and technical knowledge, vocabulary and the fact that he had face to face contact before 18 is slim from this point.   

 

Some options you have from this point:

 

1) If he never wants to see the birth parents again, and you think they are a kidnap risk, get the police to issue a restraining order.   He may also want to block their contact on Facebook and you may want to change your phone number and consider moving if needed.

 

2) If he is really interested in having a relationship with the birth mother and sibling again, maybe set up some visitation through the proper channel, such as they visit for a week once a year or something or perhaps they only come to your house instead and visit when you are there.

 

3) It may be that he wants only telephone / online contact after this.   If this is the case, keep in mind the contact will not be censored and you may want to monitor this or create a separate facebook or e-mail account for communicating with the birth family. 


You may also want to read the book "Bubble Wrapped Children" by Helen Oakwater, the book "Facing up to Facebook" by Eileen Fursland, and the Evan B Donaldson Adoption Institute report "Untangling the web", as they also give insight into how Facebook is changing the adoption process.

[Guest inoubliable]

 

The thing to realize, as the adoptive parents still have CUSTODY until the child is 18 in most cases.    For the birth mother to gain custody it would take a court to turn it over.    So legally the adoptive mother can legally go get their child, and if the visit was over a certain length, you most likely have a kidnapping case here.  

 

As to proceed from this point, I would first recommend that you use whatever means you have to get your child back to your house.   This may require a road trip or purchasing an airplane ticket. At least you know where he is.    

 

 

Then next would have a frank conversation WITH YOUR CHILD about how to proceed once he is back home

.  

 

Your Googlefu has failed. 

Try Googling RAD. 

[Guest submarines]

Your Googlefu has failed. 

Try Googling RAD. 

 

I think it is wonderful when strangers strive to help strangers. The above response, even if it doesn't touch the RAD issues, is still very thoughtful, and the poster took his time to share his thoughts in a polite, respectful, and articulate manner. 

 

There's no magic pill that will make it all better for the OP and her DS, but when random strangers care, it is truly beautiful. 

 

Why the snarky reply?

[Guest StephenH]

I am not an expert on RAD actually.   It's the first time I have heard of it.  I'll have to read some more about it. 

I wanted to add one more thing.   I also advise that once the original poster gets his/her adopted child back home, they should also make sure he knows his/her life story (the accurate version that is, not the toned down partially incorrect version given to little children when they are taken away), the reason why he/she was taken away, etc.   Ideally, this should have been given and discussed before the visit took place.    This will help them understand what is really going on with the birth famiy and the circumstances behind why he/she had to be taken away.    

[Scarlett]

I am not an expert on RAD actually. It's the first time I have heard of it. I'll have to read some more about it.

 

I wanted to add one more thing. I also advise that once the original poster gets his/her adopted child back home, they should also make sure he knows his/her life story (the accurate version that is, not the toned down partially incorrect version given to little children when they are taken away), the reason why he/she was taken away, etc. Ideally, this should have been given and discussed before the visit took place. This will help them understand what is really going on with the birth famiy and the circumstances behind why he/she had to be taken away.

It seems you really want to help but there is a long history behind this thread that makes it much more complicated than simply going after the child. Rose is well aware of her legal rights and responsibilities and is working closely with several agencies to insure the best possible outcome for we family.

[Lara in Colo]

I am not an expert on RAD actually.   It's the first time I have heard of it.  I'll have to read some more about it. 

 

I wanted to add one more thing.   I also advise that once the original poster gets his/her adopted child back home, they should also make sure he knows his/her life story (the accurate version that is, not the toned down partially incorrect version given to little children when they are taken away), the reason why he/she was taken away, etc.   Ideally, this should have been given and discussed before the visit took place.    This will help them understand what is really going on with the birth famiy and the circumstances behind why he/she had to be taken away.    

 

Not to be disrespectful, but you really need to read upon RAD---It is what makes all the difference in the case.

You cannot give advice until you understand the child and how RAD makes dealing with this child unlike dealing with any other child.

[Rose in BC]

Thanks for these comments. Our children all know their history and have always known. We've been very open and very respectful of their history. We adopted our dd (she was our first) from a private agency that dealt with open adoptions so we had a lot of counciling prior to bringing home our kids.

 

As for going together him, this boy has been physical with us. If he doesn't want to come home we won't be able to make him (and if we could get him picked up by say police he would just run away.. He's done that before even any of this transpired.

 

We are following council of social services. Not that we always agree but we need some objective, professional advice.

[FO4UR]

Another following this thread quietly...

 

Rose, you are doing an amazing job!  The fruit will not likely be seen for a while down the road (maybe years!), but your sacrifice is not in vain.  Your ds has a safe home where people love him, even if he doesn't see it that way.  He has a safe place to land when his new world comes crashing down. He has a measure by which to compare what a healthy person and a healthy family look like.

 

 

RAD aside, I had never even considered how fb changes adoption. Wow!  I'm sure you aren't the only one living this sort of nightmare. :crying:

 

 

 

[Tap]

Any money coming from social services is contingent on school attendance. If he doesn't go, social services will cut off funding.

 

I predict that will happen. School has always been a disaster for him. I homeschooled until grade eight....I cried every single day...and I'm not exaggerating. He has been to three public schools, including one "alternate" school that supposedly accommodates kids like him.. It didnt work. I don't know how a very large public school with no idea of his need for an individual educational plan is going to work for him.

 

His biggest factor in not succeeding in school....attendance. I could not make him go. Really. I wished you'd all know in real life. I am a fairly strong woman. And I get along with virtually anyone (i have to say virtually because I'm having a little problem with son's birthmother :)).I work as a senior manager in local government. I supervise people. I could not make my ds go to school. RAD is an unreal experience. If you've never had a RAD child, well it's hard to believe their behaviour.

 

Next to a lack of attendance was an unwillingness to do what the teachers asked him to do.

 

I hope I'm wrong and this school will be the miracle solution. But I kind of doubt it.

I know that the financial support the state is giving the birth mom is possibly a motivator for her to try to keep him....but I wonder if this isn't a mixed blessing for your son, in terms of his education.  Based on his history, yes, he may drop out as soon as things get rough.  OR, maybe, just maybe, this whole situation may be the motivation he needs to actually stay in school.  It would be an odd blessing....but it would be something!  

 

You know how RAD works, it is always the oddest situation that seems to finally 'click' and motivate the RAD person.  It can be thing that is the most unexpected, and honestly, sometimes the most ridiculous for the person on the outside looking in.  I wish this wasn't the way it is, but it is just how it seems to be.  For my dd, it seems like she just takes our lives, gives it a good hard shake and then prioritizes things based on how they randomly fall.  The easy things are hard, and the hard things are easy.  The pleasurable, only lasts for a few seconds, the uncomfortable....seems to be physically painful.  And then just when we get it figured out...she gives us all another good hard shake and the pieces start falllng like glitter in a snow globe again. 

 

 I really hope that this peculiar situation creates such a strange dynamic, that he feels an actual obligation to his bio-mom.  One thing that I doubt he has ever felt..... is that his dropping out of school could lead to someone not having rent money!  Maybe, he would benefit from some real world consequences for his behavior.  Even as parents who try to allow natural consequences to guide their discipline, the kids still know that the parents are still often in control over the consequences.  This circumstance could remove some of that perception, and some consequences may actually hit home.  That is, unless he decides to blame you for everything, for always....and then, well, all bets are off!  LOL 

[6wildhorses]

Rose, I check in on you every day on this thread. I hope and pray that this situation turns out to be a blessing in disguise. I just see so much potential for your son to learn, grow, and to see the world with more perspective. Whether that will happen sooner vs. later is unknown, but I see the potential. I had a time in my life when my world was turned upside down and inside out. It was the hardest and darkest time of my life, but now I look back on that time and am so grateful for it. To claw my way out of the darkness I had to do some deep soul-searching. I had to find who I was and find my inner strength. I had to let go of my fears and learn to embrace each moment just as it was even when the moments were imperfect in my mind. By embracing the imperfection I was finally able to release my frustrations and fears. Only then was I able to move forward and direct my energy towards creating a better reality.

 

Does school start soon? I'm sure we're all interested to hear how school goes for him.

 

You're an amazing woman, Rose. Your strength comes through in your posts. I had a friend who once told me she thought she had become a worse person since having kids. Being a parent can be so difficult we have to find new strength to make it through and to still have our own identity as a good person. What you have done for your son and what you are doing now has been and is difficult, messy, and stressful, and I have found that it's people who are willing to perservere through such times (as you have done all these years) that are able to understand what unconditional love is all about.

[aggieamy]

Rose - just wanted to say I was thinking about you and your family today.  (((HUGS)))

[Scrub Jay]

I've been lurking on this thread. Have been thinking of you and your son. Hope everything is ok. Well, as ok as it can be in this situation.

[Live2Ride]

Hugs for you today...

 

[hillfarm]

It would be so easy for me to armchair QB this situation. Why, Rose, you should just march over there, shake your Mommy finger in this woman's face, tell her what's what and take your son home. Yeah, right.

 

The fact of the matter is that RAD children do not have the same perceptions and reactions as "average" people. So to expect "average" reactions would be merely an exercise in frustration for you. You know from personal experience that your ds's reactions would likely be quick, volatile, and quite likely dangerous for him and perhaps the rest of the family should you try to force him to do anything.

 

Based on what you have shared about the birth mom, it seems quite possible that she doesn't fall into the "average" category either. To expect fair, rational, reasonable or honorable behavior or reactions from her may be just as doomed to failure as expecting them from your ds.

 

I think the only path you can realistically choose is the one you are currently following. You have to do everything strictly by the letter of the laws which apply. You can try to communicate your concern and unconditional love to your ds, but you can't force him to acknowledge that those things are true and valuable. You can't make him see his birth mom's flaws. He is going to see things from his unique vision exclusively. (I'm sure you have a great deal of experience dealing with his different and unexpected interpretation of things.)

 

Some of us, like me, so much want to believe that love and fairness will win the day. We want to think that he can be helped to see the truth. But I'm not sure that is reality. Some children just can't be forced or guided. They have to come to it in their own way. You know him best and know the situation. It seems that you are making wise and honest decisions at every point here. Don't second guess yourself.

 

I realize that RAD adds an exponential increase in difficulty and complication, but the fact is that most of us with teen children have to admit that the time has passed for "making" them do anything. My 14yo dd and I had an interesting discussion today about how it is impossible for a parent to completely bar their teen child from online technology these days. She correctly pointed out that even if the parents take all the teen's media access away in their home, the teen can easily gain access elsewhere. At the library, from a friend at school, at a friend or relative's house, perhaps even by just going against their parents' wishes and continuing to access the media at home, whether covertly or overtly.

 

I remember Joanne once saying something about the only way to absolutely guarantee a particular outcome with a teen would be to institute measures that would possibly be just as harmful as the situation being avoided. As much as their behavior sometimes warrants, it is not developmentally appropriate to treat them like toddlers. You are doing the right things for your ds. It would serve no purpose to destroy him psychologically in order to "help" him. As you have previously stated, direct intervention would merely drive him farther away from you. Love him, pray for him, forgive him, accept him for who he is. Those are the only and best things you can do.

[SproutMamaK]

Just bumping this up. I've been thinking of your family this week, I keep hoping that some day your son will see the situation for what it truly is.

[Rose in BC]

Thanks everyone for checking in. Nothing to update. Absolutely no news. My dd is leaving tomorrow for a scheduled visit with one of my sisters. Then She and my sister are heading to my dd's birth moms funeral on Tuesday. It's in the same city where my ds is. I'm not sure if they'll attempt to see ds. My dd is stressed enough so I'm not adding more to burden her but waiting to see if she brings it up.

 

It's hard that I'm not going to funeral with dd. I just can't. Financially it's a strain (as it is it'll cost us $800 to send dd), my work schedule is packed, we have another ds with special needs and school starts next week (although I homeschool him). And, I don't think I could bear rejection from my youngest ds if I went to city where he is and he refused to see me. Which I think could happen. But my sister (13 years older than me) is a very good substitute and LOVES my dd. But of course I feel the mommy guilt.

 

Next week school starts for him. I'm curious to see how that will work.

[Caitilin]

:grouphug:

[bobbeym]

:grouphug:  Rose.  I wish there was more we could do for you.

[Rose in BC]

Here's a interesting update. My ds texted my sister day telling her he thinks he might have chicken pox! Seriously? Mumps earlier this month (turned out not to be) and now chicken pox? And why isn't his birthmother providing guidance? He always comes to us in times of trouble.

 

After a back and forth conversation, my sister told him he needs to see a dr. (Oh, and she asked him if he's sure it's not ..in her words "insect bites"...aka fleas or bedbugs.)

 

Haven't heard anything more since this morning.

 

I think he might be gearing up for excuses to miss school which starts Tuesday. I'm sure he's scared. New school. Big city school.

[Starr]

The poor boy,  I hope he finds a way out of his dilemma and decides to go home.  :grouphug:

[Rose in BC]

The poor boy, I hope he finds a way out of his dilemma and decides to go home. :grouphug:

Me too. My sister will be in his city next week for a day. I will be interested in seeing if she can meet up with him (and dd, who is attending her birthmother's funeral).

 

I asked dd if she wanted to see ds. I was kind of shocked to hear her say how angry she is at him for putting us through so much grief. (She's a very mellow personality.). I'm glad we have counciling for her.