Is this a reasonable thing to ask?

[Drama Llama]

I am visiting my mother, helping her move to independent living in the city where she lives.

My mom has three portraits, done in pastels, of me and my siblings when we were 3, 5, and 7.

She also has 2 portraits, done is pastels of my oldest and youngest children when they were 3 and 6.  I had them done as a gift to her.  When I had them done, my middle child was still just a cousin so of course I did not have him done.

It really bothers me that he isn’t there.  I think it should be all the grandchildren or none.  I can get a picture done. Maybe even look up the same artist.  But I don’t know if she would want it.

Is it reasonable for me to say “this is really important to me.”  And if she says no to ask her to take down the other two when we visit?  Am I being rational at all? 

[City Mouse]

I can understand why you would want to give her a portrait of you other child. I would think she will be happy to have it, and I wouldn’t worry about wondering what to do if she declined such a gift until it actually happens.

I don’t think it is fair to be upset with her that only two portraits are there if you haven’t given her the other one yet, but I do understand why it makes you sad.

[Katy]

I would let it go. She may not even display the portraits. If she does then I would send her another as a wrapped gift and not comment. 

[Drama Llama]

Just now, Katy said:

I would let it go. She may not even display the portraits. If she does then I would send her another as a wrapped gift and not comment. 

This came up because she told me where in the new place she plans to hang them.

 

[Harriet Vane]

Just now, Baseballandhockey said:

This came up because she told me where in the new place she plans to hang them.

 

I would just get the third one done and make a point of helping her hang it with the others.

[prairiewindmomma]

Personally, I would chalk this up to a grief bomb---something that you didn't expect to bump into, that brought up a lot of pain, and sit on those feelings for a month or so.

If after a month or so, you are still bothered by this, I wouldn't move forward with commissioning unless you are ok with her displaying all, some, or none of the portraits. In other words, your grief is yours and her grief is hers, but you can't dictate what someone else chooses to display in their own home.

(FWIW, for me, this issue has popped up as new family portraits obviously don't contain our deceased daughter. In some relative's houses, they have a portrait of her separately displayed. In other houses, there is no representation. It's a common enough issue, and it's painful; I'm sorry.)

 

[Katy]

6 minutes ago, Baseballandhockey said:

This came up because she told me where in the new place she plans to hang them.

 

At most I would say, “I feel sad that you don’t have one of DS. I should get you one.” And then be silent while she either agrees or declines. But only if you can be okay with her declining. 

[Drama Llama]

The only family portraits I have had taken were with him.  I sent her two frames.  One with a single picture of the five of us, and one with 3 pictures, one of each kid.  Neither of them are displayed.  

[Katy]

3 minutes ago, Baseballandhockey said:

The only family portraits I have had taken were with him.  I sent her two frames.  One with a single picture of the five of us, and one with 3 pictures, one of each kid.  Neither of them are displayed.  

Then she doesn’t want to display them. I would let it go because to me, confronting her about it might be relationship ending. 

[Drama Llama]

3 minutes ago, Katy said:

Then she doesn’t want to display them. I would let it go because to me, confronting her about it might be relationship ending. 

I think refusing to display a child’s picture because he was adopted might be worth ending a relationship over. 

[Bambam]

It's so hard when you have so many family pictures. We have a relative that the walls of her house - and pretty much every flat surface are covered with pictures of her kids, her grandchildren, her great-grandchildren, special events, etc. So cluttered.  It's hard for them to find room to add in the pictures that people keep giving her (in frames too, of course). They are now hanging them behind the TV because there is NO other room. 

So now they have a digital picture frame that scrolls through a variety of pictures. A tech savvy relative keeps adding pictures of the great grandchildren/special events. 

There is much less room in an independent living facility apartment than a home. So maybe consider switching to a digital picture frame that scrolls through a variety of pictures - including all your children/nieces/nephews/etc? Take pictures of the pastel portraits to have them included. 

I  imagine it would disappoint me that some of the framed pictures that I sent her aren't displayed. It may be that she just has trouble figuring out where to put them and getting them actually hung. 

[Danae]

It is reasonable to offer to have a matching portrait made.  It is not reasonable to ask her to take down the portraits she has if she declines.  You get to decide what to display in your house.  Other people decide what to display in theirs.  

[prairiewindmomma]

2 minutes ago, Baseballandhockey said:

I think refusing to display a child’s picture because he was adopted might be worth ending a relationship over. 

FWIW, in light of all of the big picture (including the Thanksgiving incident and other things you have related in the past also), I do think she is probably consciously choosing not to display the photos also. 

May you find peace in whatever you choose to do.

 

[Drama Llama]

2 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

FWIW, in light of all of the big picture (including the Thanksgiving incident and other things you have related in the past also), I do think she is probably consciously choosing not to display the photos also. 

May you find peace in whatever you choose to do.

 

Her not displaying the family pictures could just be that she doesn’t display a lot of photos, she prefers paintings and drawings.

But outside of our situation, I can’t really imagine a situation in which a loving grandmother would choose to display a series of portraits of all of her grandchildren but one.  

I didn’t have it done before now, because I am pretty sure it wouldn’t be displayed.

[prairiewindmomma]

6 minutes ago, Baseballandhockey said:

Her not displaying the family pictures could just be that she doesn’t display a lot of photos, she prefers paintings and drawings.

But outside of our situation, I can’t really imagine a situation in which a loving grandmother would choose to display a series of portraits of all of her grandchildren but one.  

I didn’t have it done before now, because I am pretty sure it wouldn’t be displayed.

IME, becoming a grandmother doesn't automatically turn someone into a lovely person.

I wish that that were true; all of us could then be blessed to have a grandmother who loves and dotes on us and thinks we're amazing.

[kristin0713]

7 minutes ago, Baseballandhockey said:

I think refusing to display a child’s picture because he was adopted might be worth ending a relationship over. 

If that is the case, there is a bigger issue here than hanging up pictures. 

If you really don't think she would allow you to hang it with the others, I would not even ask and I wouldn't have it done. If you do think it is worth ending your relationship over, I suggest talking to her about how you feel that she never accepted or welcomed your son as part of the family. (If that is how you feel?) And then make a decision about how to proceed with her. I don't think it is reasonable to ask her to not hang up the other pictures. If she really would refuse a picture of your son because he was adopted, I don't even know what I would do with that. I probably would have cut her out of my life long ago. 

If this were only about a picture, I would say definitely ask first. Taking out all of the personal stuff related to this-- I don't like a lot of things on my walls and I don't like it when people give me pictures or artwork as gifts. I am very picky about what goes on my walls. Maybe she feels the same.  But it seems that there is more to it than this. 

[ktgrok]

51 minutes ago, City Mouse said:

I can understand why you would want to give her a portrait of you other child. I would think she will be happy to have it, and I wouldn’t worry about wondering what to do if she declined such a gift until it actually happens.

I don’t think it is fair to be upset with her that only two portraits are there if you haven’t given her the other one yet, but I do understand why it makes you sad.

This. Asking her to take down the pastel of her grandkids that was made before middle DS was part of the family is not reasonable. Gifting her one of him is reasonable.

31 minutes ago, Baseballandhockey said:

I think refusing to display a child’s picture because he was adopted might be worth ending a relationship over. 

Yes. But maybe there are other reasons - not wanting to have to explain to people something that causes her sad feelings, etc. 

[Katy]

It might be worth ending the relationship over, but so far it has not been. I probably wouldn’t decide that this trip.

[Elizabeth86]

NM seems complicated.

Edited September 23, 2022 by Elizabeth86

[Drama Llama]

1 hour ago, Katy said:

It might be worth ending the relationship over, but so far it has not been. I probably wouldn’t decide that this trip.

I don’t feel like I can cut her off, I feel an obligation.  But the question is whether I bring my kids to see her.  She has had almost no contact with them since Thanksgiving 2019.  30 seconds in the phone a handful of times and they wrote thank you notes for Christmas and Bday gifts.  I don’t know what is right.

[Junie]

Some people do not like looking at pictures of deceased loved ones.  It's part of their grieving process.

Of course, I don't know if that's what's going on here, but it might be something to consider.

[Drama Llama]

1 minute ago, Junie said:

Some people do not like looking at pictures of deceased loved ones.  It's part of their grieving process.

Of course, I don't know if that's what's going on here, but it might be something to consider.

She didn’t display pictures of him when he was alive.

[Catwoman]

6 minutes ago, Baseballandhockey said:

She didn’t display pictures of him when he was alive.

Then why is it a problem now?

I'm not trying to be snarky, but I'm not sure why this is suddenly a big issue for you. Are you looking for a reason to create drama with her? Realistically, she gets to decide what pictures she displays in her own home, and you seem to be assigning negative reasons for her not having your Ds's picture displayed without having even asked her about it and given her a chance to explain her reasoning. 

I think @Katy's suggestion is an excellent approach. I can't get it to quote properly for some reason, but she said this: "At most I would say, “I feel sad that you don’t have one of DS. I should get you one.” And then be silent while she either agrees or declines. But only if you can be okay with her declining."

I can understand why you would be sad about your Ds's picture not being displayed, but to take it so far as to consider using it as your reason not to take your other children to visit her seems pretty extreme. Are you just looking for a reason to be angry with her in order to be able to justify not bringing your kids to see her? 

Personally, if you don't want to visit her or bring your kids to see her, don't do it. You don't need to manufacture an excuse. Not wanting to go is enough. Do what your heart tells you is the right thing to do, and then don't second guess your decision. 

 

[SKL]

I agree with having a similar pastel made and giving it to Granny.  It's up to Granny whether or not she hangs it up.

I don't know Granny, but not everyone likes to hang up a lot of pictures.  I wouldn't read anything into the fact that she didn't ever hang up the group family photo.  A lot of people never do that.

I agree with not taking your kids to visit if you don't want to.

I assume the main reason she hasn't seen the kids was Covid, and you being careful.  Besides that, lots of grandparents aren't super involved with their grandkids, not for any wicked reasons.  Or they expect their children to initiate contact between the generations.  But again ... if you feel there isn't any love there, don't waste your kids' time on that.

[heartlikealion]

Does it bother you for your own sake or you because you’re worried the kids will come visit and notice? 

I get consistency, inclusivity but won’t the new portrait stick out like a sore thumb if he’s older than the others? Since all the previous photos feature young children and he may be older? Maybe send over a pic of the 3 of them? 

I don’t know the right answer. Your middle child may be able to rationalize that these photos were done long ago and not even take it personally. But if he’s not represented anywhere in the home, I would want to remedy that in some form. 

[Katy]

Only you know what boundaries feel right to you. There isn't a right answer here.  In general she lives a long way away, you feel an obligation, and you know how she felt about your son. Just because I would let it drop to limit drama and fulfill the obligation doesn't mean you'd be less moral if you didn't. My thinking is that you won't change her mind, you'll just increase your stress and burden and by letting it drop you give yourself a bit of margin... 

I personally would limit time with the kids anyway. But it's okay to do whatever you feel is best. Including saying how upset you are about every way she disappointed you. But I suspect because of the way people are that she'll dig in her heels and not change the way you want her to. Expressing a desire that she has a painting you haven't had made yet is a bit less confrontational than discussing all the ways she's failed you in the past several years.

[Janeway]

It is not reasonable to ask her to take them done. Just go have another picture done that includes your middle child. Really cannot erase that he had a life before you and you had a life before him, and you shouldn’t. it’s OK to acknowledge that time and that was a present. That’s her belongings and her home. If you want to just even things out and make sure they all have equal representation, then just have a picture done of him alone and have her put it next to the others.

[Clarita]

5 hours ago, Baseballandhockey said:

But outside of our situation, I can’t really imagine a situation in which a loving grandmother would choose to display a series of portraits of all of her grandchildren but one.  

I think both my mom and my MIL would do something like that. To the two of them the aesthetics of their home is very important, so they won't just willy nilly put up a family. It becomes a situation where on the one hand it would be ridiculous for them to ask me to have a family photo which matched her décor, but they also won't put up the photos because we don't match the scheme. Instead they both have a spot where they keep these photos and stuff we give them (photo album, phone, or my MIL has a small spot of small mismatched photos).

Let's put it this way my MIL currently has 2 pictures of me displayed, one of her younger son and none of my husband. The grandchildren rotate in the small spot of mismatched photos, so although she only has 2 grandchildren they may not always be represented. The grandchildren know they are loved by their grandparents through the mountain of other displays of affection.  

I would start with a talk where I would tell her it would mean a lot to me if there was a portrait of middle child. Offer to have a similar style of portrait done. Go from that conversation.

[Melissa in Australia]

I have two permanent care children. None of either my relitives or dh relitives view them as related to them.. They are by all relitives considered part of out family, but not connected to them. My mum does have some photocopied pictures hanging on her wall of them amongst the 30 grandchildren photocopies she has hanging there. 

[Rosie_0801]

I hated seeing the pictures of my kids displayed at my mother's.

[Ausmumof3]

In a normal healthy relationship this would be a non-issue but it sounds like it’s a long way from that. I’m sorry if your mum didn’t fully acknowledge your adopted son. 😞 

[Jean in Newcastle]

Is a forced display what you really want?  

[gardenmom5]

does she have a pastel portrait of that child?  if not, it is unreasonable to be upset she doesn't have it on display.  It is reasonable to have one done.

It's also reasonable to just let go of your own expectations of what pictures your mom will display.  She's going to dispaly what she wants and she only has so much room.  If you want the pictures back when she no longer wants them, it would probably be prudent to tell her.    

[EKS]

16 hours ago, Baseballandhockey said:

I think refusing to display a child’s picture because he was adopted might be worth ending a relationship over. 

If you are looking for things to end the relationship over, then I suppose it is.

This is obviously more about the relationship between you and your mother and less about what pictures are on the wall.  If you want a relationship with your mother, you're most likely going to have to accept her choices in this area.  Giving her a picture of your middle son is only going to add fuel to this fire, whatever its origins.

[pinball]

What was the thanksgiving 2019 problem?

 

[ktgrok]

16 hours ago, heartlikealion said:

Does it bother you for your own sake or you because you’re worried the kids will come visit and notice? 

I get consistency, inclusivity but won’t the new portrait stick out like a sore thumb if he’s older than the others? Since all the previous photos feature young children and he may be older? Maybe send over a pic of the 3 of them? 

I don’t know the right answer. Your middle child may be able to rationalize that these photos were done long ago and not even take it personally. But if he’s not represented anywhere in the home, I would want to remedy that in some form. 

This is about her middle son that passed away. 

[Storygirl]

I'm very sorry that you are going through this pain. But I don't think it's reasonable to ask her to put an additional picture up. If you want to get one and send it to her, because that alone will make you feel better, then do it. But if you send her a picture, and she chooses not to display it, I imagine it will create even deeper pain for you. From what I know of her relationship with you and all of your sons, I would anticipate that she might not want to put a picture of him in her house, as hard as that is. I think pressing the issue is likely to just cause you more pain, not eliminate or help you process pain.

I would not break off my own relationship with her, if it were me, but I wouldn't encourage a closer relationship with the boys. My own parents made choices that I disagreed with or found painful. My brother would argue with them, and nothing would change. I have chosen to accept my father for who he is, faults and all, and accept that he will not change (my mother is deceased). It's been really hard at times.

I'm sorry.

[Ellie]

20 hours ago, Baseballandhockey said:

Is it reasonable for me to say “this is really important to me.”  And if she says no to ask her to take down the other two when we visit?  Am I being rational at all? 

It is reasonable to want your dc in a portrait with the other dc; it is not reasonable for you to ask her to take down the other two when you visit. No, you are not being rational. Sorry.

[KSera]

10 hours ago, Melissa in Australia said:

I have two permanent care children. None of either my relitives or dh relitives view them as related to them.. They are by all relitives considered part of out family, but not connected to them. My mum does have some photocopied pictures hanging on her wall of them amongst the 30 grandchildren photocopies she has hanging there. 

I think the difference in what adoption is and means in the US vs Australia is probably relevant here. I don’t know anyone with adopted family members in the US who wouldn’t be upset by extended family members not considering an adopted child to be related to them in the same way their biological siblings are. Obviously not a biological relation (unless they are), but I don’t consider my adopted family members to be any less related to me than the biological ones and can’t fathom people treating them as such. That would be bizarre are hurtful to me. But, I know Australia doesn’t do adoption, so it’s entirely different. 

[annandatje]

You're stepping out of your lane if you ask her to remove portraits in her own living space to accommodate you.  However, it would be lovely gift idea to have a portrait done that includes all the grands.

[Ravin]

My mom didn't speak to my grandma the last few years of grandma's life because grandma had this nasty double standard of ignoring the adopted kids.

I don't know what the right answer is, but I don't envy you the balancing act.

[KungFuPanda]

I think it is completely unreasonable to be upset that your mother hasn’t hung up a picture that you never gave her. I’m sure you have reasons for your feelings, but this isn’t about a photo display. It’s not like she commissioned the photos and intentionally left out a child. This is something else. 

[Laura Corin]

Just a side note - this kind of move is very stressful - downsizing, possible loss of independence, etc. If you do want to continue having a relationship, I would wait until she is well settled in before broaching the issue. 

My MIL, who had always had impeccable Texas manners, showed flashes of really unexpected temper during the process.