world geography question: can you name and place

[prairiewindmomma]

Can you name and place accurately on a map 3 large cities in China and 3 large cities in India? Can you tell me anything about those cities?

I'm not asking to shame....but many of us had euro-centric educations and can place Paris (population of 2.1 million) and London (population of less than 9 million) and Rome (2.9 million) but can't place cities with much larger populations.  OTOH, most of us here probably have a better shot at this than the average person because we are/have been home educators. I'm curious about what the average boardie here knows.

[Ann.without.an.e]

Can we use google? lol

For real though, do you think this is simply because our study of history is western/euro-centric with very little added in about Asia, etc? Sheer exposure?

 

[kbutton]

Nope, but I cannot place European cities either. 5th and 6th grade was a long time ago, which is when I had a strong geography course and loved it. I retained it for quite a while. We did study the eastern and western hemispheres (Old World/New World as it was termed at the time), one each of those years. I had a friend in college who grew up in India, and I might've been able to label cities in India at that time.

My kids did geography together without a lot of input from me. It was a get 'er done subject since my kids are 2e, and we had a lot of learning issues coming to a head at that point. 

[Ann.without.an.e]

Also, I taught geography in a co-op for 16 years and I was just happy if the kids could get to the point where they could find China and France (no one came in with that knowledge). It was a lot of work to get them to learn the countries, cities weren't happening - whether that be France or Hong Kong lol. 

[Amethyst]

I can place France, England, China, and India on a map, but their cities? No way! But I wouldn’t place Austin, Sacramento, or St Louis either!

[Melissa Louise]

Cities? No.

But I could if I'd been to a Chinese city etc.

As it is, I've only been to cities in Europe and Scandinavia, so I can find those.

We don't study that type of geography here, so it's not down to the ed system for me.

I can ID some major US cities because I've looked at maps over the years. 

[prairiewindmomma]

(FWIW, this question came up from my kids after watching the weather on Deutsche Welle. We've been talking about the differences between watching the news on US tv versus watching it on other channels.  Thanks to Roku, we regularly watch the world news from different countries in English.)

[Arcadia]

I’m from Asia so the China cities are easy, especially when my husband and I have business trips there for our respective employers. My cousin is working in China and my adopted aunt’s brother has a factory there. For India, I would only be able to place New Delhi and Bangalore without thinking because of work.

[bookbard]

I could do cities in India, because I've been there, could label quite a few of their states as well. But I could only have a go with China. I could only think of 3 cities actually, Beijing, Shanghai and Wuhan. I could do Rome and Paris and London, but I've been to Europe. In terms of the Americas, I could point out San Francisco and New York, no idea about Canada, Mexico or any of the central or south American cities (I would know the city names, but not placement). It's funny being from Australia, took me years to accept that Chicago wasn't on the coast - the idea of a major city just bang in the middle of a country seemed weird to me (all Australian cities are coastal)!

[Laura Corin]

I could do China easily, but I lived thereabouts for two decades. I could name Indian cities and maybe say one or two things about them, but couldn't place them. However, the UK geography syllabus does not stress list-based survey learning - instead we studied particular areas in detail.

[Katy]

I think so, but we’ve had family live in China & DH has worked with people in both countries. Before I met DH definitely not. I couldn’t do the same thing in Japan or Vietnam, and that seems like it would be easier. I’m not even sure I could do more than two towns in Afghanistan, and my ex spent a lot of time there. I don’t think I would have learned much of that in school though; it was more like I learned European geography from planning travel. I didn’t even have a firm grasp on that until someone I watch on YouTube drove a bunch of donations to Ukraine a few times. I didn’t realize how close France was to Ukraine until I looked up his route. 

[Carrie12345]

The only US cities I can place accurately are NYC, Philly, Trenton, DC, and I could get at least close to Atlanta. 
Why would I be able to do better with Asia?

(Countries and US states, I’m fine on.)

[Slache]

Only China. I agree with your sentiment and we are rectifying that in our home.

[whitestavern]

I can place quite a few European cities but only because I’ve traveled to them. 

[Ausmumof3]

No. I can’t place many countries in Africa either or South America. Fuzzy on a lot of Eastern Europe. I’ve always been pretty average at this stuff. We never had a world map at home: During my school years it switched from geography to society and environment and the focus was on learning what impacts humans had on the earth and not on building that basic knowledge of the world. I’ve learned most of what I know through schooling my kids and playing worldle and globle, or using apps like flight tracker. 

[TravelingChris]

1 hour ago, prairiewindmomma said:

Can you name and place accurately on a map 3 large cities in China and 3 large cities in India? Can you tell me anything about those cities?

 

Place conpletely accurately? No but where they are generally- yes.  But most of my school education was a waste of time for me and by 2nd grade, I had decided that I needed to do more studying on my own.  I loved looking at atlases even back then.  One of my favorite school texts books was sn old one used by my brother ( who was 8 grades in front of me, and this text was being discarded) was a geography of South America text book.  

But I had no idea where Wuhan was in China until outbreak.

[lmrich]

If I make a REALLY big dot. I doubt I would still get them right.That  can be said of European cities, too. I can do countries though. 

[frogger]

For some reason India is much easier for me than China, but then again, the west and India had a lot more overlapping history due to colonization.

Just asked my son and he easily talked about India. Knew one more city than me in China but guess we just aren't great with Chinese cities outside Beijing. I feel like it is almost cheating to mention Wuhan because not long ago I would be clueless.

[Clarita]

If I could have a circle that encompasses about a quarter of the country for China (even for the places I've visited and lived in). Of course I may be worse for the European countries where my circle may encompass other countries as well especially on a map that didn't give me the geo-political borders. I couldn't really draw a dot for Los Angeles or New York City either. I can only draw a dot for San Francisco and some surrounding cities because I've lived in the area for a few decades.

My kids are only on identifying geographical features with a confused understanding that other countries have different time zones. One kid (4) struggles to decide whether a body of water should be a pond, ocean or pool.  

[Jean in Newcastle]

Depends on how specific you want me to be. I can certainly name three cities in both China and India. I might be able to roughly place them but very roughly. I would find it easier to tell you facts about the cities. I don’t think that I am bad at geography. I just haven’t really bothered to look up locations when reading things in the news or even travel related articles. 

[mommyoffive]

I am a lot better at places I have been.  So with Europe and Africa I can point out cities that we have traveled.  We were going to travel in Asia and then Covid  hit a week before we were leaving.  I can point out some places in China and Japan based on research I did for trips we were going to be on.

Edited August 10, 2022 by mommyoffive

[Eos]

Yes, because when I was growing up my sisters and I played geography games with the world and country maps on the walls.  My kids yes too because they play a lot of geography board games.  My daughters are foolishly good with places and names and capitals, but populations have boomed since the last edition of the one they play the most.  That game also has religion, exports, and languages spoken, also somewhat outdated.

Funny side note: when my sister was waking up from brain cancer surgery, the nurse asked her what was her name, age, and could she name 7 states.  Yes, she did, and then when the nurse asked her the capitals of them (not kidding) she said "I've been training all my life for this moment!" and then listed off the capitals.

Edited August 10, 2022 by Eos

[Farrar]

Absolutely. But I used to live in China. I've been to a bunch of major Chinese cities. I used to go between Guangzhou and Hong Kong pretty regularly. Going places helps your sense of geography a lot.

For India? Three? Absolutely. And I could name a ton more, but probably not place them that accurately on a map. But that's just my ability with basic geography.

Here's a real massive challenge for most Americans, I've found. Can you just name five cities in Africa. Not even place them on a map. Just... name them. Step one for most Americans is the mind-blowing realization that there might be ANY cities in Africa at all.

[Faith-manor]

I can do this. I had a very robust geography class in college many moons ago and retained some of it. Facts about the cities that are based on current information would be out of date especially India. I am able to place Calcutta, Mumbai, and New Delhi. But I am not too up on current events so facts would be more related to info back from 1985 when I had the class.

I am only about 65% accurate placing African and Asian countries on a blank global map. I do well with some of the Pacific rim countries, and very well with North Africa, but I have been to Egypt three times, and know several people with D.O.B in the region so that makes it easier to remember.

I also know a little bit about Western Africa particularly Togo and Nigeria. My parents traveled there a good bit. So for instance, I can place Togo on a map, and the cities of Lome and Kpalime.

As a general rule though, most geography coursework in American classes is integrated into history and does not focus on the rote memorization of where things not American are. My brother in law in France says his childhood education focused of course on France and areas of French colonialism, oh and the French kings a litany he describes as "Charlemagne, some kings probably named Louis because France couldn't think of anything else who'd come between, William the Conqueror, Britain is bad, Louis, Louis, Louis, Louis, Louis, Henry, not fond of the British, Louis, Louis, Louis, Louis, Charles, Louis, Louis, Louis, endless Louis, and then finally Napoleon, war, war, war, war, war." 😂😂😂 To hear him talk, one would think this is ALL that was covered, and that 99% of all French Kings were named Louis. I am fairly certain it was probably more in depth than that. He just doesn't have much good to say about his history classes however. It did not involve much about any non-French colonial and non -European nations. I think this is pretty common for many countries. What is the history and geography they want their citizens to know? Their own. That is the priority.

[Kassia]

I'm terrible at geography but my kids and DH are good.  I think my boys learned a lot because of their interest in history and current events.  Dd loved the seterra (?) online game and still plays it now sometimes (she's almost 20).  

 

[maize]

16 hours ago, prairiewindmomma said:

Can you name and place accurately on a map 3 large cities in China and 3 large cities in India? Can you tell me anything about those cities?

I'm not asking to shame....but many of us had euro-centric educations and can place Paris (population of 2.1 million) and London (population of less than 9 million) and Rome (2.9 million) but can't place cities with much larger populations.  OTOH, most of us here probably have a better shot at this than the average person because we are/have been home educators. I'm curious about what the average boardie here knows.

Honestly I can't place Paris on a map with any degree of accuracy and I lived there!

For me that's about not having a very good visual memory (or ability to visualize in general) and not about how much I know or don't know about a country or region.

So I find the question as posed not very enlightening. 

[Arcadia]

58 minutes ago, maize said:

Honestly I can't place Paris on a map with any degree of accuracy and I lived there!

For me that's about not having a very good visual memory (or ability to visualize in general) and not about how much I know or don't know about a country or region.

So I find the question as posed not very enlightening. 

I see OP’s question as a two part question. One on location and one on details. My spatial challenge husband won’t be able to place cities, and would get wrong on smaller countries.  He could however give details due to work or travel. I could locate two cities in India without effort because of work, the other cities in India I would be familiar with enough to give details because of friends. Actually when I was working, my priority is timezone rather than exact location of the various metropolitan cities because I don’t want to call my colleague in Paris for example at an unearthly hour. DHL, UPS, FedEx would get work parcels delivered correctly to the various offices in other countries so knowing exact location is low priority for me. 

As for broadening world view aspect of OP’s post, while DW is nice, it is good to add asian sources of news too and you can see different opinions on issues like the Ukraine war, Nancy Pelosi’s trip to Taiwan, and the army bases in Japan.

[prairiewindmomma]

@Arcadia, we do watch Asian news—usually SCMP, al-Jazeera, and a couple of Indian channels also. 

[prairiewindmomma]

1 hour ago, maize said:

Honestly I can't place Paris on a map with any degree of accuracy and I lived there!

For me that's about not having a very good visual memory (or ability to visualize in general) and not about how much I know or don't know about a country or region.

So I find the question as posed not very enlightening. 

For me, the map question is relevant because it matters if a city is coastal or along a major river, tropical or alpine…. The geography of a place has often shaped its history. 
 

Right? Think of Beijing—Beijing thrived historically because it is surrounded by mountains on three sides. The mountains made the city easy to defend, especially from northern invaders. The mountains also separated Beijing from the desert steppes. Major rivers flow through Beijing, so it had access to fresh water and trade/travel. 
 

Now, those same mountains trap smog, especially with winter inversions and spring dust storms blowing off of the steppes also contribute to the air quality issues. 

[prairiewindmomma]

3 hours ago, Farrar said:

Step one for most Americans is the mind-blowing realization that there might be ANY cities in Africa at all.

Yes.
 

The Lagos metro area has more people than the NYC metro. 

[Bootsie]

I could, but knowing where things are RELATIVE to other places has always been important to me.  I have a natural tendency to go to a large map or a globe when learning about a place.  If I am going someplace new and use google maps for directions, I still need to pull up a map to get an idea of my relative location; simply turn left, go a mile, turn right... does not give me a good sense of where I am going.  I also don't like reading ebooks because of that--am I in the front quarter of the book, the middle, etc?  I know I can look at page count, but it isn't the same to me as a physical reference.  When I was in school, studying and recalling on an exam was often related to where I physically wrote down the information I was trying to recall.  And visiting a city with subways always throws me in that the subway maps are not designed to show relative location and I get no sense of what direction (or how far of a distance) places are when I go underground.  

[SKL]

I don’t have a good sense of direction, but I have been to a number of cities in both India and China as well as Europe.  I also read a lot about those countries before I visited them.  But could I accurately place my finger on that part of the world map that represents Shanghai or Beijing or Guangzhou?  Probably not without a review.  Same might be true of Atlanta, San Antonio, or St. Louis.

Edited August 10, 2022 by SKL

[SKL]

Actually, when I was in grad school and had lots of Indian friends, the topic of American ignorance used to cone up regularly.  How could people be so dumb not to know about Hyderabad?  I started to ask them questions about African and Latin American countries.  Oops.  They didn’t even know which hemisphere they were in.  It goes back to what folks are interested in and what affects them.

Edited August 10, 2022 by SKL

[Melissa Louise]

I've been mulling over this thread and wondering, I guess, the utility of being able to name and place cities on a map.

Here is what a Year 10 geo student would be studying here:

geographical processes 

Interconnections within and between environments and people 

environmental change and human well-being 

Collection, collation, analysis of primary data 

Spatial distributions, patterns and trends 

Contemporary geo challenges

~ 

Of course, a student could learn cities on a map as she goes, but it's not a key aspect of the curriculum. 

I do think literature + general knowledge + geography can add up to a relatively well rounded understanding of the world, but it's not reliant on mapping cities. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Melissa Louise]

5 hours ago, prairiewindmomma said:

For me, the map question is relevant because it matters if a city is coastal or along a major river, tropical or alpine…. The geography of a place has often shaped its history. 
 

Right? Think of Beijing—Beijing thrived historically because it is surrounded by mountains on three sides. The mountains made the city easy to defend, especially from northern invaders. The mountains also separated Beijing from the desert steppes. Major rivers flow through Beijing, so it had access to fresh water and trade/travel. 
 

Now, those same mountains trap smog, especially with winter inversions and spring dust storms blowing off of the steppes also contribute to the air quality issues. 

These type of details here would be covered in h/s history + science curriculum, I think. Though human well-being in geo overlaps with climate studies in science. 

A student could learn/know this without being able to place the city on a map.

 

Edited August 10, 2022 by Melissa Louise

[Laura Corin]

28 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

I've been mulling over this thread and wondering, I guess, the utility of being able to name and place cities on a map.

Here is what a Year 10 geo student would be studying here:

geographical processes 

Interconnections within and between environments and people 

environmental change and human well-being 

Collection, collation, analysis of primary data 

Spatial distributions, patterns and trends 

Contemporary geo challenges

~ 

Of course, a student could learn cities on a map as she goes, but it's not a key aspect of the curriculum. 

I do think literature + general knowledge + geography can add up to a relatively well rounded understanding of the world, but it's not reliant on mapping cities. 

The UK curriculum is similar. 

[catz]

Yes, but I've traveled to various parts of Asia.  

[Jean in Newcastle]

28 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

These type of details here would be covered in h/s history + science curriculum, I think. Though human well-being in geo overlaps with climate studies in science. 

A student could learn/know this without being able to place the city on a map.

 

 

4 minutes ago, Laura Corin said:

The UK curriculum is similar. 

When I used a standard US geography text just a couple of years ago, it was the same. 

[Janeway]

I went to public school so I never learned much about geography, European or otherwise.  Since I knew a fair amount about the end of WW2, I could actually place places in Japan and such better than any city in Europe other than Paris. And I only know Paris because I took French.

It is a big assumption and feels like it is meant to shame people to word the post how you did. Most people, including people from all continents, know more about the places they have lived, their grandparents have lived, or they have travelled, than anywhere else. There is nothing wrong or shameful about this.

[prairiewindmomma]

58 minutes ago, Janeway said:

It is a big assumption and feels like it is meant to shame people to word the post how you did. Most people, including people from all continents, know more about the places they have lived, their grandparents have lived, or they have travelled, than anywhere else. There is nothing wrong or shameful about this.

I literally said in my post that I was not trying to shame anyone and I was just curious about what people knew. 
 

I also went to public school, in a very average place, with title 1 funding—but we had to memorize states and capitals in 3rd grade, had an entire year of world geography in 8th grade, and had history intertwined with geography in high school. I knew my experience may have been outside the norm, and I was asking of simple curiosity as to what the average boardie knows. We did the map work with the Story of the World Series and with History of the ____World, so my kids can draw maps with mountains and rivers and place cities. Apparently that is atypical. It doesn’t matter. 
 

Seriously, this was just meant to be a blow the breeze post. I am sorry it made you upset.

 

[Jean in Newcastle]

As far as the public school requirement part of this question, I would assume that it would differ by state?  My state requires a half credit of geography in high school.  There is some geography in all elementary and middle school grades as well but I'm sure how it is presented depends on the textbooks that were adopted for that school district.  I don't know enough about the educational standards in states across the US to know how common that is but I know that very large textbook companies do cover geography in their texts so I doubt that it's too small of a segment of American education that sees it as an integral part of "Social Studies". 

As far as the general geography literacy of graduates of those public schools, I would assume that it would depend on how much the students actually paid attention and how much they use it in their lives.  Of course this would be the same for graduates of private schools or homeschools as well. 

[Farrar]

I think finding on a map is useful. Do y'all not play Geoguessr!?!

Seriously... my issue is more that Americans (and maybe lots of other people) have such limited information in general about other places. I can pick apart any aspect of "knowing about" other places. Like, oh, those are just names, or who cares which one is biggest or smallest, or why should you need to know which places are associated with which industries, or what language or... I could go on and on. Because we can't know it all. But in there end, there has to be something there. That can be the map, the names, the sizes, the languages, the cultural spots... Whatever. You need some sort of pegs to hang new information on or you can't appreciate or understand current events or the wider world. 

[Garga]

I cannot name 3 cities in China or India much less find them. I can name maybe a couple in Africa, but mostly because Egypt is there. 

I don’t think I can name 3 cities in any European country, except maybe England. Let me try: London, …. no. Not even 3 cities in England.

I cannot tell you where most cities in the US are, other than their state, but not where in the state. I just visited Niagara Falls and was astounded to discover that it’s not in Maine. 

Not ashamed or proud of my lack of knowledge at this point. I just never bothered to learn geography. 

Edited August 11, 2022 by Garga

[bookbard]

25 minutes ago, Farrar said:

You need some sort of pegs to hang new information on or you can't appreciate or understand current events or the wider world. 

Absolutely. 

I am not really a 'classical education' person. But I always remember that quote (not who said it though) about being able to participate in the conversation. And I feel like that's really important - the purpose of general knowledge isn't to show off or as an emergency measure, but it's so you can participate in the basic conversations of life, beyond 'it's hot today'. 

I think the point, that we tend to have a euro-centric education, is true. For me, that's partly due to the literature I read, which is in English. I have to search to find books in English that aren't set in the UK, USA, or Australia. Equally, I have to search to find them for my kids. We got a lot out of watching Encanto and learning about Colombia - I couldn't have told you where that was or much about it (bar drug lords). Like many people, I've learned so much from working with my kids. 

[Bootsie]

It is always interesting to me to see what people in other parts of the world know about the places where I am from.  This summer I was speaking to a high school student in Europe whose English class for the year was focused on American culture.  She was working on her final presentation and paper--on Louisiana.  Since I grew up there I was curious about her perceptions--New Orleans?  Mardi Gras? Katrina? Tabasco sauce? allligators? bayous? Cajun culture? the Mississippi river?  Huey P Long? --when I asked about her presentation, she told me all she had learned about Angola prison.  

[Jean in Newcastle]

I know a lot of places from living in a multicultural area. I also know a lot of places from being a missionary kid who knows a lot of other missionaries. 

[SKL]

In my observation, different people with the same educational opportunities are going to remember different things.  Again, largely based on what they cared about at the time it was taught, as well as how well it was presented.

Personally I remember tons of school-taught things that nobody I know remembers, though I'm sure it was taught in their schools.  It doesn't mean their lives / experiences / schools were of less value than mine.  There are also tons of things I can't remember, including the names and faces of just about everyone I've met in the past 6 months.

Although I do remember things I've read, and I was the type to read my textbooks, and I remember studying how to make and read maps (though I always scored mediocre on "map reading"), I don't remember studying foreign countries in elementary/middle school.  Could be due to changes in curricula or because I moved between districts that timed things differently.  Could be because my middle school social studies teacher was inexperienced, boring, and distracted by his attraction to the gym teacher.  In grades 8-12, there was no requirement to take world geography/history.  I think there was an elective offered to upper-classmen, but I graduated early so I took the minimum needed for that.  I did learn some geography as part of Spanish class, but beyond that, just whatever I picked up from my personal reading and TV viewing.

In college, I took world history, and I had a good teacher.  Most likely that course did spark my interest in learning more ... and I've spent a lot of time since then reading and traveling.  I guess I'm above average in my knowledge of world history/cultures (though not in map reading).  But I had above-average advantages as well as interest in the topic.

My kids have also had above-average advantages.  One of them seems to know a lot of geography, while the other makes fun of herself for her geographical ignorance.

I should add that my kids did have to take both world geography and world history.  But given that the schools here never come close to finishing the textbooks, I wouldn't take that to mean they have studied the world map.  Just selected parts of it.

Edited August 11, 2022 by SKL

[Elizabeth86]

Not a chance. 

[Elizabeth86]

19 hours ago, maize said:

Honestly I can't place Paris on a map with any degree of accuracy and I lived there!

For me that's about not having a very good visual memory (or ability to visualize in general) and not about how much I know or don't know about a country or region.

So I find the question as posed not very enlightening. 

I love this! I’d be about the same!

[Melissa Louise]

My one kid who did have to study geography as a discrete subject, because she went to high school where it was compulsory 7-10, is comically bad at maps and all spatial things. She's lived in other cities in her adult life and still has no concept of relative distance and direction from where she grew up. 

If she can't find the capital of Australia, where she lives, on a map, there is no chance she'd find anything else. She might know where London is, but I doubt it. 

Yet I'd be hard pressed to call her Euro-centric, given her passion is Indigenous and multicultural health. 

I used to pore over the atlas as a kid planning my escape from AU, and I have a relatively good mental map of the world's continents and countries, but I'm very Euro-centric, much more than DD.