If your kid has life threatening food allergies, what precautions do you take and ask other people to take?

[bibiche]

I agree with everyone else that you should not make a cake with nuts at an event attended by a relative with a nut allergy. It’s unkind.

What is the cake you wanted to make? I’d be happy to help you figure out another similar cake. Is it a dacquoise? Is it covered in marzipan? For the first you can just use meringue without nuts. For the second you can use a rolled fondant. Again, happy to help you with suggestions for a safe cake.

[Spryte]

3 hours ago, Baseballandhockey said:

So, just out of curiosity, does that mean that none of you take your kids with nut allergies to places where nuts might be, like birthday parties? 

That’s correct.

We communicate clearly with the host beforehand, and we aren’t demanding about it, but we don’t hesitate to bow out if there will be peanuts or tree nuts (or sesame seeds, in our case). And we have left parties early, upon arriving and finding out that our clear communication didn’t work. I am always profoundly grateful to the wonderful people who accommodate my kids. Profoundly. But we also don’t make any assumptions that anyone will, ever. 

We have LTFAs to some other items that are not as likely to go airborne, and have stayed when those items are present. But not nuts or seeds. Nope. We leave.

We don’t go in the hot food area of the grocery store either. DS had anaphylaxis from something cooking on the hot bar. He has had anaphylaxis when I cooked lentil soup, too, which is how we found that allergy. He had it in a store at Hershey Park that sold candy. Airborne allergens are real and a threat.

We homeschooled K - 12 because there were not appropriate accommodations in our school.

We avoid activities that involve food. We don’t eat in restaurants or at anyone’s except very trusted houses/families.

DS had anaphylaxis on a flight, when someone ate nuts near him, despite taking ALL the precautions recommended. So we no longer fly with him. Our family has multi year opportunities for international travel together, so not flying stinks, frankly.

I could go on. We don’t do a ton of things due to allergies, and we are not unusual at all. 

I have admired and slightly envied your food inclusive family. Your niece was fortunate to have had such a safe space for so long. If you opt not to do that anymore, I hope you will communicate that decision in advance very clearly. Her family will have to make choices, and they will feel the loss keenly.

[chocolate-chip chooky]

Over all the years we've all known you here, you've always shown incredible respect and gone to amazing measures to meet other people's food needs and wishes.

So, this question seems quite out of character for you. 

I strongly suggest you skip the almonds on the cake. Not only is it life-threatening for someone you love, but the gesture would buy trouble with a family that you already have strained relationships with.

Please take on board the responses and advice given by everyone in this thread 🌻

[Lecka]

I think it is inconsiderate.  I think kids have enough times they are told “you cant have that” without it happening at a family gathering. 

If you want to add a separate gathering like a breakfast, I think that’s fine.
 

If you happened to know that family would leave on the earlier side, I think it would be fine to bring it out after they left.  
 

Edit:  I mean I think maybe you could find a way to serve this cake while this family was not present.  
 

Or maybe deliver it to the graduate’s family and just have it with your family and their family, minus an event.  

Edited April 30, 2022 by Lecka

[Lecka]

I don’t have a child with an allergy and I think that it’s definitely considered normal to not bring the allergen around a child, and for requests to be made like that, and followed.

My son was on a recreational soccer league with a girl who was homeschooled because of allergies and had almost died.  
 

It was totally accepted that other parents would adhere to that for snacks that we brought at all even for our own kids.
 

My own kids also expect that and will remind me of a child having an allergy.  

[Karen A]

I know you have all kinds of family dynamics going on here that I don't understand, so I won't weigh in on your making the cake or not. For a family gathering in MY family, as long as there was another sweet my dd could enjoy, I wouldn't think twice about you making a special cake with nuts for those who could have it.

To answer your question on what precautions I ask other people to take, for my multiple nut/peanut allergic child.

I TELL them she is allergic to nuts.

1) I ask them to put any items that contain nuts on a separate plate/platter than other food my daughter might take, and let us know what's what

2) I ask them to think about cross contamination from cooking serving--eg--my kid is first through the line, so I know the serving tongs haven't been used on the peanut butter cookies, and then on the (non-nut containing) choc chip cookie plate. If they ask if I'd rather they not serve PB cookies I say "yes, I'd rather you not". If they ask if they can serve cake with almonds, eaten with a fork, we'd have no problem with it. 

3) When she was under 7/8 I asked parents to watch for messy peanut butter eaters and have kids wash hands after eating to avoid contact allergy. Since then, she keeps an eye on what kids around her are eating and is fine advocating for herself. This has been an issue about three times in 10 years. 

4) She ALWAYS carries benadryl and two epipens. She has never had to use the epi-pen. 

5) For bday cakes/goodies I told host I was fine with cake if they were reasonably sure there was small chance of cross contamination. Making a cake from a mix in my kitchen, with a spatula/bowl that has been through the dishwasher, and PButter in my cabinet--miniscule, miniscule risk of cross contamination. Grocery store mass-producing cakes seem safer than small bakery. For fudge or cupcakes from a fudge store at Mackinaw Island, we'll pass.

I respect other parents' choice to make different decisions, but this has worked well for my dd since the age of 18 months. 

 

 

 

[Lecka]

Somewhere between my childhood and my kids’ childhood it changed and now a parent who doesn’t pay attention to another child’s allergies is seen as a bad person.  It’s no longer that people roll their eyes at the parent with the child with allergies. That is the default.  There is just the benefit of the doubt that there is a real allergy and not just a parent who is overprotective.  

[Lecka]

I had a girl, separately, in Vacation Bible School who had used the Epi-pen the year or so before.  
 

Not like we wouldn’t have been careful anyways, but we changed volunteers around slightly so someone with nursing experience was nearby to her, just for other people (like me) to be more comfortable.  I definitely felt like I didn’t want to be in a position of doing it.  
 

But it turned out to be fine.  
 

I don’t know if the mom requested the volunteer change or if it was decided among the volunteers.  
 

I think when somebody has already had a bad reaction it is taken more seriously by everyone.

 

But I also think it’s nice when it wouldn’t be a problem for someone to have the dessert present, and I think that is nice when it can be that way.

 

But if it’s not the situation I don’t think it’s reasonable to expect that.

 

[CTVKath]

As a mom of 2 food allergy kids, there's only one way that I could see it being reasonable. And that is if there will be other almond food items there and yours would be grouped with those and they would be kept separate. And the host was a part of creating this separate almond space. And because it's such close relatives, that the mother of the allergic child is ok with it.

Otherwise, I can't think of any way to make it reasonable.

Navigating the food allergy world is constant risk assessment and hard decisions. We've had to skip plenty of events over the years. And we've had a few accidental exposures at pot lucks and parties. It was never intentional and always an accident but we always knew we had taken the risk. 

What other events do you have coming up that need somebody to bring a delicious almond cake? That's where I'd direct my thinking. 🙂 

[Spryte]

4 hours ago, Baseballandhockey said:

 

Is there a point when this becomes reasonable?  Her mom will not think it's reasonable, but I want to hear from other allergy parents.

I didn’t answer this part, and feel like I’d like to address it. 

For context, I have two kids with LTFAs, my mother has LTFAs, as do I. So I feel like I have multiple perspectives on this.

My mother is fine being around her allergens, as an adult, but she’s 81, and for most of her life she just had to deal with it, no one was going to accommodate her needs. No one understood! As a result, she almost died on her wedding day, and who knows how many other times. I saw her go into anaphylaxis many times, hives were normal, and she simply did not cook certain foods, or eat certain foods. Obviously she had varying degrees of success with avoiding her allergens. I am lucky she’s still alive.

My allergy is easier to avoid, shellfish, but I have had slight reactions from smelling it cooking so DH keeps me away from it. It’s not worth the risk.

Which brings me to our kids. When DS was first diagnosed, we were clueless, and our only example was my mom. The allergist told us not to keep kid’s allergens in the house. We asked, “even if he’s not going to eat them?” And the allergist replied, “Everyone needs a safe space, a place where they don’t worry.” We took it upon ourselves to create that for him, because he was never going to get it anywhere else. He is 18 now, and we still make sure our home is safe. Now that DD has LTFAs, we make it safe for her, too. And, I’ll be honest, it only takes once for us to go to a family member’s house, one who knows how to make things safe, and never go back if we find it’s not a safe place anymore. Believe me, no one has fun at a party when they are worrying they might die. Not parents, kids, adults. My 18 yr old can advocate for himself, but he knows also to leave if he’s around allergens to which he has airborne issues. Not everyone is as sensitive as he is, but everyone needs to feel safe so following their lead is the way to go. We have almost lost our son, trying to relax our standards, and he is pretty careful now because he remembers what that is like. It’s awful.

I cherish our friends and family who have worked to make a safe space for our kids. We have one set of grandparents that has moved the earth to make things safe. Aunts and uncles who have worked hard at it. And we see them often. But we have other grandparents and family who never tried or seemed to care — and we just stopped going over. It’s not worth the risk.

If your niece is 10, she still needs that safe space. You need to ask yourself if you want to give that to her. If not, it’s fine, but let her know in advance. And if you’re going to be bringing an item to a party in her safe zone (her house, her grandparents’ house), you still need to respect her safe zone. 

[elegantlion]

4 hours ago, Baseballandhockey said:

So, just out of curiosity, does that mean that none of you take your kids with nut allergies to places where nuts might be, like birthday parties? 

My son had no allergies and practically survived on peanut butter as a child, like he ate it every day for a number of years. We had one friend that had minor peanut allergies. Because nut allergies were so prevelent in places where you might not know, like church or school, for any event that required food, we brought nut free food. I considered it a courtesy to parents. It may have even been written into class guidelines one year when ds was in private school. 

I currently have a friend with a child with severe nut allergies. They request no nuts and ask that we list ingredients for any food we bring. 

 

 

1 hour ago, chocolate-chip chooky said:

 

So, this question seems quite out of character for you. 

 

I agree. I do hope you're all right, I know you've had a ton of things going on. (hugs)

[NewnameC]

Not reasonable given your family dynamics, and I say that as a mom of kids dealing with anaphylactic nut allergies for 20+ years, who does have nuts in my home.

There is absolutely no reason to make this cake when it could cause a health issue for your niece or add more strain to your relationship.

If you are intrigued by the cake, make it at your house and eat it there when your niece will not be there any time it is there.

I have not read the replies. 

[SHP]

I am shocked this is even a question! Why would you risk your niece's life?! If you are considering a course of action that could kill her, well I have no words to adequately express my disgust.

I have food allergies and like Spryte's mom, the severity was not properly understood when I was a young child, I just spent a lot of time in the ER. I vividly remember the first time I tried to advocate for myself to get a safe food and the adults around me who knew better, failing me. I made the choice not to eat and the adults took personal offense and I had miserable day of hunger and being shamed and yelled at for being selfish.

I do not allow foods my children's friend's are deathly allergic to in the house. I keep (or kept prepandemic) alternatives on hand because I believe in keeping a welcoming and safe place for all. When I packed lunches, they were always safe for everyone who would be present. 

In decades of being the responsible adult around kids there has been exactly one time where a child in my care was exposed to an allergen. Thankfully, it was not a LTFA and I still feel horrible about not being diligent enough and making an assumption about food at a new to me restruant rather than asking and confirming food safety. 

[Ceilingfan]

If it makes you feel better, it was also a shock to me how seriously people with kids who have nut allergies have to take these situations - and especially how restrictive it is of their lives, and how committed they have to be to constantly monitoring the threat.

I think I was unaware of it partially because it seemed to me like a variation of  a  dairy allergy, or maybe of gluten intolerance, and also  because I just figured look, they're making  this big fuss about  not letting my kids take PB&J's to school (one of the only cheap, portable, kid-friendly proteins my veganish kids could take), but I bet their kids go to the grocery store, or the park, or potlucks, or church, and have the same risk of exposure there, so why do I have to undertake this additional expense and annoyance when it's not like they're going to be accommodated in all these other places they go?

But as it turns out, these kids don't go to grocery stores or potlucks or church BBQs, at least not without serious precautions; parents of small children with anaphylactic allergies don't let them just run around at the park and touch other kids who might have eaten peanut butter for lunch; often these kids don't go to school at all, if their parents can possibly afford to homeschool. And the worst time is when the kid is old enough to start to monitor things on their own (about 10) but young enough to screw that up by mistake, and so kids like this live with a lot more parental oversight and control than would normally be healthy.

I dunno, it was just surprising to me. I'd never really considered that it's not that there are nut-allergic kids running around at school doing FINE and running around in the Whole Foods doing FINE - these kids don't go to school, and don't go to Whole Foods, and often don't go to birthday parties or family reunions or the mall. They just don't exist in public spaces, in order to stay alive until adulthood.

[DreamerGirl]

6 hours ago, Baseballandhockey said:

So, just out of curiosity, does that mean that none of you take your kids with nut allergies to places where nuts might be, like birthday parties? 

I know for sure that if a person with nut allergies is to be on a flight, they will not serve nuts on it and take a bunch of precautions. But the airline should be informed long before the flight is scheduled, not at checkin. They would not be allowed to board if the flight has any type of nuts even if it is served in business class only (warm nuts) and the person is in economy. They take it that seriously.

Edited April 30, 2022 by DreamerGirl

[Shoeless]

No no no, you cannot bring this cake to the event. You know there is a problem; your niece's mom would be right to think you are unreasonable.  Even if she's a PITA in every other context, she's in the right here. 

You can make this cake any day of the week. Bring something else to the event that everyone can enjoy with out fearing death. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

Doctors label certain allergies as life threatening even if the person hasn’t had a near death experience  for a reason. These allergic reactions can escalate rapidly. The first exposure might not elicit as strong a reaction as a subsequent exposure. Those who are downplaying this sort of allergy need to do some research to educate themselves on the real danger. It’s not nice to play Russian roulette with someone else’s life. 

Edited May 1, 2022 by Jean in Newcastle
Typo

[catz]

I absolutely wouldn't if life threatening allergies were involved especially with younger kids on site.  Are you providing all the food for the party?  Given it's at a 3rd party's house, I'd want them to set the menu contraints and just clear anything with the hosting family.  They may have guests with other limitations or allergies.  Are you sure younger kids are invited?

This reminds me of that yahoo dad James Iannazzo that went into a smoothie shop that serves a ton of nut based stuff, ordered a peanut butter smoothie without peanut butter from a teenager, didn't supervise it being made or talk about the process, served it to his kid.  His kid ended up in the hospital with a severe reaction.  And he went back and threatened the young girls working at the shop.  And ended up arrested.  All I could think was I don't know any allergy parents that would walk into a shop that openly serve nuts constantly and expect to get something nut free without a LONG drawn out discussion.  Cross contamination happens so easily.  

That dude just got probation.  

https://www.ctpost.com/news/article/Fairfield-man-accused-of-tirade-at-smoothie-shop-17134040.php

Edited May 1, 2022 by catz

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

5 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

Doctors label certain allergies as life threatening even if the person hasn’t had a near death experience  for a reason. These allergic reactions can escalate rapidly. The first exposure might not elicit as strong a reaction as a subsequent exposure. Those who are downplaying this sort of allergy need to do some research to educate themselves on the real danger. It’s not nice to play Russian roulette with someone else’s life. 

Thank you.

[kristin0713]

I'm going to come to the OP's defense here. I feel she's being dogpiled on. I have and have had friends whose kids have nut allergies but they are not anaphylactic and the kids can be around nuts, just not ingest them. I once invited over a family with allergies and told mom that I do have nuts and peanut butter in the house and she said "Oh I eat nuts and keep it in the house! The girls just can't eat them!" I am not asking for comments on whether or not my friends are wise or stupid or if they are doing the right or wrong thing for their kids. Just making the point that not every kid with a nut allergy has a severe, life-threatening airborne allergy. Now obviously I have no idea about this particular girl. My personal protocol is to ask the parents and just follow what they say. In this case, it seems that the mom would not want the cake there so I would trust that she knows it is a risk for her kid and I would not make the cake. But I do think the *question* of what is reasonable is a valid question as I have seen this handled very differently but different families. Again, I would not serve the cake, but I do know parents who would say to just label the cake and their kid will be fine if they know not to eat it. 

[Lecka]

I think these are norms a lot of teenagers have, too, where they may know someone who has had a scary reaction and expect people to be careful.

There was also something a few years ago where it was a gag to expose classmates to an allergen.  I don’t know if it was like a tik-tok challenge or something else.  Somebody got a classmate pretty sick doing it.  I don’t know if I have seen it, but it’s the kind of thing my son would know all about. I think there is pretty strong feeling “don’t do that.”  

 

[Shoeless]

And just in case this is part of the thought process...it doesn't matter if you think reports of the allergy are overblown, that SIL is being dramatic or attention seeking, or outright lying. You haven't said anything that implies this, but I'm just putting it out there in case you're thinking "How bad could it really be?" This isn't an argument worth having. 

[freesia]

8 minutes ago, kristin0713 said:

I'm going to come to the OP's defense here. I feel she's being dogpiled on. I have and have had friends whose kids have nut allergies but they are not anaphylactic and the kids can be around nuts, just not ingest them. I once invited over a family with allergies and told mom that I do have nuts and peanut butter in the house and she said "Oh I eat nuts and keep it in the house! The girls just can't eat them!" I am not asking for comments on whether or not my friends are wise or stupid or if they are doing the right or wrong thing for their kids. Just making the point that not every kid with a nut allergy has a severe, life-threatening airborne allergy. Now obviously I have no idea about this particular girl. My personal protocol is to ask the parents and just follow what they say. In this case, it seems that the mom would not want the cake there so I would trust that she knows it is a risk for her kid and I would not make the cake. But I do think the *question* of what is reasonable is a valid question as I have seen this handled very differently but different families. Again, I would not serve the cake, but I do know parents who would say to just label the cake and their kid will be fine if they know not to eat it. 

Yes, to this. I have the same experience with my house and friends with nut allergic kids. 
 

I also feel I need to add that dh has an anaphylactic allergy to sulfites which are impossible to avoid outside of our house. There are always foods he cannot eat when we are at parties. So it seems odd to me that the OP’s question is being jumped on. Reality is he brings his own food. Reality is we bring foods he likes and can eat to share.  He would not react to airborne allergic, but would to even a small bit. We slightly prefer people don’t even try to accommodate bc it’s so easy to make a mistake. 
Anyway, the OPs situation is complicated and it would be kind of her not yo make the almond cake and it certainly would cause way less drama. However, she reached out bc she wanted to know an answer,  and I don’t think anyone should jump all over her. It isn’t really as straightforward as people are making it out. It only seems that way bc nut allergies are ones our schools and kids programs have chosen to accommodate. There are others that are not ever accommodated. 

[ktgrok]

2 minutes ago, freesia said:

Yes, to this. I have the same experience with my house and friends with nut allergic kids. 
 

I also feel I need to add that dh has an anaphylactic allergy to sulfites which are impossible to avoid outside of our house. There are always foods he cannot eat when we are at parties. So it seems odd to me that the OP’s question is being jumped on. Reality is he brings his own food. Reality is we bring foods he likes and can eat to share.  He would not react to airborne allergic, but would to even a small bit. We slightly prefer people don’t even try to accommodate bc it’s so easy to make a mistake. 
Anyway, the OPs situation is complicated and it would be kind of her not yo make the almond cake and it certainly would cause way less drama. However, she reached out bc she wanted to know an answer,  and I don’t think anyone should jump all over her. It isn’t really as straightforward as people are making it out. It only seems that way bc nut allergies are ones our schools and kids programs have chosen to accommodate. There are others that are not ever accommodated. 

If I had a family member with a life threatening food allergy (which is how the OP described it) to ANYTHING I would not make a special dessert for a family party that I knew contained something that could kill them. 

I mean, she has approximately 1,001 OTHER cakes she could make, why bring the one kind that could be FATAL to her own niece? WHY would one do that? Why on earth bring something to a party that you KNOW is deadly to one person at a party, a child no less? And when you know other children will be there, and there is potential for the child to be exposed?

I think there is a big difference between a child and an adult, and with random events versus a family party where previously things had been made safe. 

[freesia]

1 minute ago, ktgrok said:

If I had a family member with a life threatening food allergy (which is how the OP described it) to ANYTHING I would not make a special dessert for a family party that I knew contained something that could kill them. 

I mean, she has approximately 1,001 OTHER cakes she could make, why bring the one kind that could be FATAL to her own niece? WHY would one do that? Why on earth bring something to a party that you KNOW is deadly to one person at a party, a child no less? And when you know other children will be there, and there is potential for the child to be exposed?

I think there is a big difference between a child and an adult, and with random events versus a family party where previously things had been made safe. 

I do agree with you that she shouldn’t make the cake. However, usually half the desserts at a holiday meal are life threatening to my dh. I think if you knew just how many things are off limits to him, you would flex on this. SIL makes two apple pies—one a family favorite, another dh can eat. That feels loving to us. I actually make a dessert he can’t eat for extended family parties bc then I get a chance to eat my favorite dessert. Dh has never had a reaction with our approach. 
 

There is a difference between adults and kids, for sure. But families differ (I know plenty like the pp who just want options and separate plates.). I’m only defending the question. She was kindly checking with people with experience in case she was letting the emotions of her family situation influence her. 

[kristin0713]

3 minutes ago, freesia said:

I’m only defending the question. She was kindly checking with people with experience in case she was letting the emotions of her family situation influence her. 

^^ Exactly. 

A lot of these replies are unnecessarily harsh. She was asking, what do you do, what do you expect, and what is reasonable. The OP goes above and beyond for everyone in her life. Show some grace in your responses. 

[Loowit]

This is a very sensitive topic for me.  My DS was diagnosed with multiple food allergies when he was only 8 months old.  I gave up a ton of foods so I could breastfeed him.  At family gatherings the only thing we requested was that they not bring anything with peanuts or tree nuts, even though he had a lot more food allergies than that.  I supplied all his food when he was old enough for table foods, but the cross contamination and airborne complications with nuts was too much risk.  It was very hurtful when family members chose food over my DS.

I know that there is this idea out there the nut allergies are accommodated, but that is not true everywhere.  While DS's food allergies are not why we homeschooled, it was a nice benefit.  Some schools around here are not good at accommodating, and the ones that are often have very snide parents who make sure you know that they dislike you.  My SIL had to go through this with my DN who has a tree nut allergy.  People can be very cruel.

If a parent has said their child can't be around X food because it could *kill* their child, in my mind it should even be a question.  Why would this fabulous cake be more important than a child?  Why would someone risk a life for food that isn't necessary?

I don't want to hurt or pile on the OP but I do want to make sure that there is an understanding of the seriousness of the situation.  I have always been impressed with her bending over backward to accommodate so many food requirements and preferences, so this just seems like an odd question to me.

[barnwife]

39 minutes ago, freesia said:

I do agree with you that she shouldn’t make the cake. However, usually half the desserts at a holiday meal are life threatening to my dh. I think if you knew just how many things are off limits to him, you would flex on this. SIL makes two apple pies—one a family favorite, another dh can eat. That feels loving to us. I actually make a dessert he can’t eat for extended family parties bc then I get a chance to eat my favorite dessert. Dh has never had a reaction with our approach. 
 

But are those desserts threatening merely by their presence? Can he react to airborne particles? Because to me, this issue has various things in play. First, the Person with Allergies is a minor. To me, that means adults should take extra care around them. Second, the person can react to airborne particles. That makes it a whole different ball-game compared to things people don't react to unless touched/consumed. Third, there are family dynamics at play I am sure. For me, I wouldn't want a food to strain a relationship. It just seems....odd. 

I think many less people would care if she made the cake if someone had to touch it/consume it to react. Then it could be labeled and placed up high to keep a kid away. 

All of that being said, I'd say that OP usually comes across as a caring and thoughtful person. If she was truly wondering about this particular situation (and I have no reason to doubt that), I think she has gotten enough responses to know where most people fall.

Also, if OP really, truly needs to make this cake (anyone else want to know what cake it is?), I volunteer to accept it by mail.

[Terabith]

I don't think we know if she reacts to airborne particles.  

[freesia]

14 minutes ago, barnwife said:

But are those desserts threatening merely by their presence? Can he react to airborne particles? Because to me, this issue has various things in play. First, the Person with Allergies is a minor. To me, that means adults should take extra care around them. Second, the person can react to airborne particles. That makes it a whole different ball-game compared to things people don't react to unless touched/consumed. Third, there are family dynamics at play I am sure. For me, I wouldn't want a food to strain a relationship. It just seems....odd. 

I think many less people would care if she made the cake if someone had to touch it/consume it to react. Then it could be labeled and placed up high to keep a kid away. 

All of that being said, I'd say that OP usually comes across as a caring and thoughtful person. If she was truly wondering about this particular situation (and I have no reason to doubt that), I think she has gotten enough responses to know where most people fall.

Also, if OP really, truly needs to make this cake (anyone else want to know what cake it is?), I volunteer to accept it by mail.

No, but Katie just said she wouldn’t have any life threatening foods if some was allergic. I was just clarifying that that can still happen within a loving family. Crumbs and reusing utensils would be a problem so we have separate utensils. 

[chocolate-chip chooky]

I'm a bit baffled by the 'piling on' or 'dogpiling' comments.

If someone asks a question, surely they want our honest opinions, unless they specify it's JAWM. Otherwise, why ask at all?

How is answering honestly and respectfully piling on?

Is it when it gets to a certain number of people all with the same opinion? But that still makes no sense to me. Wouldn't you want to know that a large number of people share an opinion, if opinions are what you are seeking?

Am I missing some board or online etiquette here?

🤔

[chocolate-chip chooky]

Also, I think the majority of us are probably quite aware that there's a spectrum with allergies, ranging from intolerance or sensitivity, all the way up to anaphylactic and life-threatening. And there's a difference if it's a child or adult.

OP specified her niece's allergy as life-threatening, so we responded with that key info in mind.

@Baseballandhockey I'm sure no one has intended any pile-on or offence. I hope you can read the responses for what they are - honest answers to a question.

[City Mouse]

28 minutes ago, chocolate-chip chooky said:

I'm a bit baffled by the 'piling on' or 'dogpiling' comments.

If someone asks a question, surely they want our honest opinions, unless they specify it's JAWM. Otherwise, why ask at all?

How is answering honestly and respectfully piling on?

Is it when it gets to a certain number of people all with the same opinion? But that still makes no sense to me. Wouldn't you want to know that a large number of people share an opinion, if opinions are what you are seeking?

Am I missing some board or online etiquette here?

 

The original post just said that the child had allergies. It doesn’t specify the degree of allergic reaction. People seemed to assume that meant life-threading allergies to microscopic airborne particles. While there are children with that degree of allergy, that was not indicated in the post. I have know children with that degree of nut allergy, but I have also worked with a child with a nut allergy who only has a reaction (anaphylactic reaction) if she ingests the product. She is fine being in the same room or even next to someone watching the product. she attends many events where food with the offending product is served.

Posters accusing Baseballandhockey of selfishly trying to kill her niece are “pilling on”.  
 

Edited May 1, 2022 by City Mouse

[happi duck]

@City Mouse

The title says life threatening.

[TravelingChris]

Didn't read more than 3 responses but here is my response

I have a daighter with anaphylactic responses to citrus fruits.  She developed this allergy in the ninth grade, right after we moved here.  In co-op, she ate in thd kitchen with teachers who didn't eat citrus because of her.  Her Venture crew of hhe Boy Scouts was also very accomadated.  But church was where the problem was- too many people who felt as the OP - let her eat something else and let h4r sit somewhere else, if they felt like wearing citrus based perfume. It sure didn't make her into a church going person. As to my opinion,  what an incredibly rude thing to do to a 10 year olf child, let alone a very dangerous act.

[TravelingChris]

11 hours ago, prairiewindmomma said:

Yup. My peanut allergic daughter did not go many places because we valued keeping her alive. It also meant we had to leave a lot of outings if we saw/smelled peanuts. 

Chipotle was one of the few restaurants we could eat at, and even still we wiped the table down thoroughly before we sat down to eat. 
 

Nut allergies are next level because the reaction can be triggered by airborne stuff. It’s nothing like the other allergies we deal with. 

My daughter's citrus allergy os most potent airborne- like citrus cleaners, perfumes, hair sprays, etc, etc., etc.  I don't think she has ever had  to use an epi pen znf jo to the ER because she ate citrus.  Always it has been inhaled. Including when very early im her allergy, I accidentally gave her a chapstick that was citrus scented.   That was her first ER visit and beyond the epipen, it was such a strong reaction, that she was there for about 8 hours getting epinephrine.  Her main symptom id that her bp drops to almost zero.

[Shoeless]

The title says "life threatening" 🙄 It's not piling on to say no, pick a different cake that compliments the party theme.

It's cake. It's avoidable. One could just...bring a different cake without life-threatening allergens. 

[TravelingChris]

11 hours ago, prairiewindmomma said:

 

The idea that you would consider serving a cake because it looked nice is a serious gut punch to all of us who have lived the years of vigilance…that’s why we are all reacting the way we are.

 

This.

Out of the five of us in our immediate family, only dh hasn't had an anaphylactic reaction to anything and he does have peanut allergy or intolerance thst he developed in his later 30's.

[TravelingChris]

9 hours ago, ktgrok said:

Fyi, I had a minor shellfish allergy I seemed to have outgrown, (runs in the family) and yes, the smell DID make me feel somewhat sick. It is a hard to describe feeling, but looking back I wish I'd made a bigger deal of it to my parents, as it was very clearly a reaction to the molecules in the air. We know now that that is enough to trigger a reaction. In my case it was stomach pain, nausea, and sometimes headache. Nothing so blatant that as a kid I could really explain, just that it made me feel yucky. If it makes him feel yucky, please believe him. 

That is why I buy Snickers w almonds usually if I buy any and that us almost always on a trip.  Dh was fine w peanuts. - we had this African recipe that included peanut butter that we used to make.  Then we're visiting Mt Vernon, and dh had a peanut soup.  He developed very bad stomach cramps and more digestive issues.  He thought it was food poisoning but he got the same reaction the next time we made that African dish.  So no more peanut for him.  And none for my youngest either who got icky feeling, stomach ache, etc. She is the one w the LTFA of citrus.  

[Ceilingfan]

Wow TravelingChris, it would be so hard to deal with that level of a citrus allergy! Like I'd assume many many stores use citrus cleaner, and people in their homes do all the time. It seems a lot more difficult to control for even than peanuts -especially if you have to worry about it being even in perfumes, which makes sense - any contact with anonymous people anywhere, or mass transit, etc. must be just impossible.

[TravelingChris]

4 minutes ago, Ceilingfan said:

Wow TravelingChris, it would be so hard to deal with that level of a citrus allergy! Like I'd assume many many stores use citrus cleaner, and people in their homes do all the time. It seems a lot more difficult to control for even than peanuts -especially if you have to worry about it being even in perfumes, which makes sense - any contact with anonymous people anywhere, or mass transit, etc. must be just impossible.

Yep. It is.  We checked into a hotel fof my fil's funeral and they had just cleaned and she us going by ambulance and we were trying to follow it because while dh grew up in NJ, it wasn't where the hotel was (near Newark Airport).   We were able to move w/out penalty to the jotelbext door also owned by the same people.

She was being harmed at work even though HR knew and they changed cleaning materials.  But a substitute cleaner would come snx bring her orange spray cleaner w her, or someone decided to burn z grapefruit candle (which no candles were allowed, ket sline grapefruit ones).  Sge was do vappy when Covid cleaner she voulx worm from home.

Both she and my son, who had the LTFA of mammal meat due to tick bite) have had so many anaphylactic reactions that they normally can tell whether they need to use epipen or can just do Benadryls and steroids. 

[easypeasy]

14 hours ago, Baseballandhockey said:

So, just out of curiosity, does that mean that none of you take your kids with nut allergies to places where nuts might be, like birthday parties? 

This feels like a troll starter-conversation, tbh! lol What an odd question for a mother to ask - this isn't even a family-favorite cake - it's just a "new recipe that you want to try" so you're going to try it for the event where your niece will be in attendance? You can't just worry about the one other niece touching her - literally ANYONE touching her, talking to her will be contaminating her space. Of COURSE you shouldn't make the cake.

And, of course parents don't take their kids places where life-threatening monsters greet them at the front door! Kids with life-threatening allergies have to skip fun events all. the. time. Or, they attend some and an anxious mother is right there, wiping everything down, baking her own snacks to give to her kid while everyone else eats pizza or something and watching e.v.e.r.y.t.h.i.n.g.

My kids have had friends with multiple allergies - some life-threatening and some that were just Very Awful (causing stomach issues or hives, etc). We jumped through all the (very inconvenient) hoops to ensure their friends could come into our house and be safe.

Even when I was annoyed at one of their mothers... the kids could always come here and feel safe. (well, I did need advance notice, of course, to wipe everything down and plan a menu that was safe for them to eat)

Edited May 1, 2022 by easypeasy

[HomeAgain]

I want to thank so many of you for educating the rest of us.  ❤️

@Baseballandhockey , can we help brainstorm ideas for alternatives?  Maybe an even better cake?

 

[Pawz4me]

9 hours ago, freesia said:

I do agree with you that she shouldn’t make the cake. However, usually half the desserts at a holiday meal are life threatening to my dh. I think if you knew just how many things are off limits to him, you would flex on this. SIL makes two apple pies—one a family favorite, another dh can eat. That feels loving to us. I actually make a dessert he can’t eat for extended family parties bc then I get a chance to eat my favorite dessert. Dh has never had a reaction with our approach.

Actually I think it goes in the other direction. If someone has many triggers, then it's much harder. It's a lot to expect a host/hostess to be able to accommodate the person. Avoiding multiple offending foods, especially if they're common ones, is hard when trying to feed more than a handful of people. Avoiding nuts isn't hard at all. It's easy.

 

[Jean in Newcastle]

3 hours ago, Pawz4me said:

Actually I think it goes in the other direction. If someone has many triggers, then it's much harder. It's a lot to expect a host/hostess to be able to accommodate the person. Avoiding multiple offending foods, especially if they're common ones, is hard when trying to feed more than a handful of people. Avoiding nuts isn't hard at all. It's easy.

 

Yup. Nuts are not a common ingredient like wheat flour (which I can’t have). Nuts are usually an optional add in. Or they are a specific choice like in the case of this cake. 

[sassenach]

When I was in 5th grade, a classmate died at the birthday party of another classmate because there was unknown nuts in the cake. I think 5th grade is 10 or 11?

[klmama]

11 hours ago, TravelingChris said:

Both she and my son, who had the LTFA of mammal meat due to tick bite) have had so many anaphylactic reactions that they normally can tell whether they need to use epipen or can just do Benadryls and steroids. 

I just wanted to share that a friend's ds was also allergic to meat because of a tick bite, but they were able to reverse that with IVIg treatments (intravenous immunoglobulin).  It's been about 15 years, so I don't remember how many treatments he needed, but at some point he was able to eat meat again without reaction.  He grew quite a bit after that!  Just thought I'd share the info, in case it's something you wanted to look into. 

[Tap]

I can go both ways on this conversation. 

My son couldn't eat peanuts when he was little, but his allergy wasn't so severe, that I had to worry about general contact. He had to eat it to react. If I took him somewhere that had food I didn't prepare, I brought his food with me.  Very few people in the general population understand food allergies. So, if we were a guest at the party where peanuts were on the menu, he would have not been allowed to eat anything there. It has to do with cross contamination. There was one potluck family event that we went to that I politely asked if I could be the first through the food line, so I could avoid cross contamination. 

As a host or contributing food member. I would not want a food dish I prepared, to cause a situation like the above, where a person could not eat anything else. while there. There is also the risk of someone eating the item and then kissing the child or touching other items with residue on their hands. 

Depending on the level of allergy, I absolutely agree that it could be done safely, but it isn't worth the extra work.  My daughter's teenage friend has anaphylaxis to tree nuts. She eats at my house all the time, but again, she has to eat it to react.  We often have nuts in baked goods, but I also use nut milks. She asks what is in all dishes to confirm the ingredients. We have Epipens in our home, so she feels comfortable with these parameters. I have another friend who has a daughter with such a severe allergy, that the daughter has to wear gloves in public (incase someone had peanuts on their skin when opening door nobs etc). She does react to airborne and skin exposures. She would never go to an event that had any nuts in a dish (due to cross contamination in nut processing) and feel safe to be there. 

Edited May 1, 2022 by Tap

[ktgrok]

To the original question, I think it is very reasonable of the SIl to ask that OP not bring a cake with nuts in it to a family event where there is a child deathly allergic to nuts. It's a very easy accommodation to make, and I know my feelings would be very hurt if my in law chose to bring a cake that was dangerous to my child, out of all the cakes in the world. 

[katilac]

There is absolutely no reason to make this cake, and it would not be kind. 

I would never make a showcase dessert that a ten-year-old guest couldn't have, even if their allergy was not life-threating. It's not kind. 

It is very easy to make multiple desserts that do not contain nuts in any form. 

For context, my own kids never had dangerous food allergies.