At what point would you lock down again?

[regentrude]

54 minutes ago, SKL said:

I was wondering - with the vast majority of at-high-risk people vaccinated and otherwise protected, can we now say Covid is like the flu, or maybe even less dangerous than the flu, overall?

I don't recall the flu overwhelming hospitals to the extent Covid does. I never heard that people in our ER had to lay on the floor for hours. I don't recall any state ordering refrigerated morgue trucks for the flu or  hospitals converting their parking garages into emergency wards.
So, nope. 

Edited August 18, 2021 by regentrude

[whitestavern]

20 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

Every unmasked, unvaxed person who goes into a grocery store, school, office, hospital, etc. etc. poses a threat to the life, liberty, freedom, and livelihood of the people around them. So why shouldn't those people also get to choose not to be around unvaxed/unmasked folks? Either the people who don't want to vax/mask get to choose whether to comply or find another job, or the people who want to be protected by having those around them be vaxed/masked have to choose between working in an unprotected environment or finding another job. Someone has to choose, and it should be the people whose personal choices put others at risk.

I wish people would stop putting unmasked and unvaxxed in the same sentence. There are unvaxxed people who do wear masks. As I’m sure those HCW do that are considering quitting. 

[Pawz4me]

50 minutes ago, SKL said:

I was wondering - with the vast majority of at-high-risk people vaccinated and otherwise protected, can we now say Covid is like the flu, or maybe even less dangerous than the flu, overall?

Right now there are 2930 people in my state who are hospitalized for Covid. Of those 728 are adult patients who are in ICUs, and 14 percent of those are on ventilators. So . . no. I think at this time we may NOT treat it as the flu, let alone like "even less dangerous than the flu." That is beyond ludicrous given the current stats from almost every state.

As far as end goals . . I don't know for sure what ours are. I can say that a few weeks ago when case numbers and test positivity rates were much lower, and when hospitals weren't anywhere close to being overwhelmed we were pretty darn comfortable with resuming life as normal. Not so anymore.

[kbutton]

20 minutes ago, whitestavern said:

I wish people would stop putting unmasked and unvaxxed in the same sentence. There are unvaxxed people who do wear masks. As I’m sure those HCW do that are considering quitting. 

Well...not really around here. HCW who are against the Covid vax are usually anti-mask as well. I know one of them who was bragging on FB that she went to the store "vaxed" as soon as we were told that vaccinated people no longer had to mask. I thought she was an honest person until I saw this. 

While she likely masks at work (and is likely required to), she's still far more dangerous masked and unvaxed at work because she is unmasked and unvaxed in the community than someone who is vaccinated is (even if the vaccinated person is unmasked, since the vaccine still prevents a great deal of infection).

I doubt she's the only one around here. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

23 minutes ago, whitestavern said:

I wish people would stop putting unmasked and unvaxxed in the same sentence. There are unvaxxed people who do wear masks. As I’m sure those HCW do that are considering quitting. 

Yes, there are unvaxxed people who wear masks.  But they aren't as safe to be around as vaxxed people wearing masks.  And you cannot be sure that those HCWs who are considering quitting do mask.  Many do not. 

[Not_a_Number]

23 minutes ago, whitestavern said:

I wish people would stop putting unmasked and unvaxxed in the same sentence. There are unvaxxed people who do wear masks. As I’m sure those HCW do that are considering quitting. 

I think in this case, it just means "either unmasked or unvaxxed." At this point, given the numbers, I'd really prefer everyone to do the maximum, not the minimum, especially in healthcare settings. 

[BeachGal]

Some anti-virals are going to be trialed soon. One is tempol. Looks promising. I can’t link the clinical trial right now but it starts August 25th and will end this December.

[Faith-manor]

1 minute ago, Pawz4me said:

Right now there are 2930 people in my state who are hospitalized for Covid. Of those 728 are adult patients who are in ICUs, and 14 percent of those are on ventilators. So . . no. I think at this time we may NOT treat it as the flu, let alone like "even less dangerous than the flu." That is beyond ludicrous given the current stats from almost every state.

As far as end goals . . I don't know for sure what ours are. I can say that a few weeks ago when case numbers and test positivity rates were much lower, and when hospitals weren't anywhere close to being overwhelmed we were pretty darn comfortable with resuming life as normal. Not so anymore.

We weren't going to do "normal", but we were going to do modified normal. Not going to resume our DSO concerts at Max Fisher Hall, but yes to indoor dining at not peak times. Continuing to cultivate outdoor activities, but limiting longer get togethers to people we know are vaxed or have recently had covid and may have some immunity. 

I am still going to do my solo camping trip in October, and attend the outdoor activities at ds's college on parent's weekend. Seniors up for honors in their department will be featured and he is one. So masked and outside, I have decided not to miss it. We will pack food, mask for rest areas, and thus be able to have the holidays with our grandsons in Alabama. But, I have given up my piano gig job, this weekend is my last. We will not return to 4H, and just pulled the plug on mentoring the school district's rocket team because they are not going to let us require masks of the team members, and only one of the kids has said they are vaccinated. We are going to continue with the university team because we meet with ten students and one professor inside a huge laboratory with new ventilation and hepa filters, masks are required inside on this campus, and a high percentage of students and faculty are vaccinated. The students on the team all volunteered that they are vaxed. We only have to meet once per month for Sept and Oct, twice in Nov, once in Dec and Jan, twice in Feb, and if they have a successful test launch and travel to Huntsville or a regional launch site, we drive separate and stay separate. If they go to Huntsville, we won't even be in the hotel because we have the house a half hour south. But if things don't get better, the college may end participation in the competition this fall anyway. So it could still go away.

But really, it is just dh and I, and our kids, the two grandmothers, and our grandsons pretty much for a long time.

[kbutton]

1 hour ago, SKL said:

I was wondering - with the vast majority of at-high-risk people vaccinated and otherwise protected, can we now say Covid is like the flu, or maybe even less dangerous than the flu, overall?

I think this is a reasonable question for the long-term, but in the short term, no. We still have healthcare systems falling apart over this. That's not like any flu except pandemic-strain flu. 

In the long-term, I hope and expect that it will be like the flu in seasonality, death rate, transmission rate, ability to vax for it, and responsiveness to some kind of anti-viral treatment. I hope. I hope that it will become something that the vast majority of people can contract without major fear (that said, I hope I never have the flu either!). 

Given that long Covid is as big of a problem as it is, we don't know if that will stay at the same prevalence or get better. We don't even really know what long Covid is. It could end up causing a lot of secondary issues later on in the way that strep infections can cause heart damage--we might find out that we really want a zero tolerance for Covid like we have a zero tolerance for strep (doctors don't use watch and wait for strep, for instance--they give antibiotics every time). Right now, long Covid seems to cause some kind of dysautonomia for lots of people. That's already an area of "unicorn/zebra" diagnosis, and the organizations and doctors who study it are maxed out. 

It's going to be a bumpy ride to an endemic normal (even after the rollercoaster hills), and while I am not into catastrophizing, we might not like the ride and might not like the outcome that much. It might be something we're working on effective treatments for for a very long time. 

[ieta_cassiopeia]

1 hour ago, SKL said:

I was wondering - with the vast majority of at-high-risk people vaccinated and otherwise protected, can we now say Covid is like the flu, or maybe even less dangerous than the flu, overall?

Given that COVID's still killing people directly, and given we've now learned that 11.5% of people who get COVID at any level of severity get severe sequelae within 6 months of COVID (excluding Long COVID, which is also potentially disabling)... ...no, we have to treat it as more severe than flu.

We already have a situation where it's disabled enough people to generate staff shortages, as it stands.

[Pam in CT]

re COVID lurching slowly toward flu-like status

1 hour ago, SKL said:

I was wondering - with the vast majority of at-high-risk people vaccinated and otherwise protected, can we now say Covid is like the flu, or maybe even less dangerous than the flu, overall?

If COVID plays out like 1919 influenza did... it may eventually burn down to something like regular flu, as it runs out of hosts around the world.  But current hospital overwhelm where it is at the moment, it obviously hasn't yet gotten to that point.

33 minutes ago, regentrude said:

I don't recall the flu overwhelming hospitals to the extent Covid does. I never heard that people in our ER had to lay on the floor for hours. I don't recall any state ordering refrigerated morgue trucks for the flu or  hospitals converting their parking garages into emergency wards.
So, nope. 

 

27 minutes ago, Pawz4me said:

Right now there are 2930 people in my state who are hospitalized for Covid. Of those 728 are adult patients who are in ICUs, and 14 percent of those are on ventilators. So . . no. I think at this time we may NOT treat it as the flu, let alone like "even less dangerous than the flu." That is beyond ludicrous given the current stats from almost every state.

As far as end goals . . I don't know for sure what ours are. I can say that a few weeks ago when case numbers and test positivity rates were much lower, and when hospitals weren't anywhere close to being overwhelmed we were pretty darn comfortable with resuming life as normal. Not so anymore.

And so long as it's finding hosts, it'll keep on mutating into new variants, some of which will evade both "natural" immunity from prior infection with prior variants, and also vaccination developed around prior variants.  All over the world, until it runs out of hosts all over the world.

It's a race against the emergence of new variants.  And at the moment we are still losing the race.

[kokotg]

2 hours ago, mommyoffive said:

If you are locking down, what is your end game?  Do you have younger kids and just want to get them vaccinated and then will stop locking down?  Waiting for this surge to be over?  Do you think you are going to be avoiding Delta?  

 

Well, I'm not really locking down, and we've never been ABLE to lock down anyway because of my husband's job...but the extent to which we're still taking as many precautions as we can is, yes, about my unvaccinated kid and also about Delta and the stuff that goes with it (overwhelmed hospitals, test shortages, etc.) I do think this goes on for years from here, and I envision the future, at least in the short term, as looking like vaccines and boosters plus masks inside during surges. And that looks fairly okay to me once my youngest is vaccinated. 

[kbutton]

1 minute ago, ieta_cassiopeia said:

Given that COVID's still killing people directly, and given we've now learned that 11.5% of people who get COVID at any level of severity get severe sequelae within 6 months of COVID (excluding Long COVID, which is also potentially disabling)... ...no, we have to treat it as more severe than flu.

We already have a situation where it's disabled enough people to generate staff shortages, as it stands.

I don't think I'd heard that stat yet. Ouch.

[kokotg]

1 hour ago, SKL said:

I was wondering - with the vast majority of at-high-risk people vaccinated and otherwise protected, can we now say Covid is like the flu, or maybe even less dangerous than the flu, overall?

I just looked up the stats on flu deaths in the US in recent years; the highest number (by far) was in 2017-18 with 61,000. That comes out to 167 deaths a day over 365 days. Right now the 7 day average of covid deaths in the US is 704 (and climbing). The 7 day average never dipped below 175 even at its very lowest point in early summer. So if things had stayed like that long term, we could have said it was about the same as a very bad flu season (putting aside questions about whether covid has more frequent/severe long term complications than flu).

Edited August 18, 2021 by kokotg

[Jean in Newcastle]

12 minutes ago, kokotg said:

I just looked up the stats on flu deaths in the US in recent years; the highest number (by far) was in 2017-18 with 61,000. That comes out to 167 deaths a day over 365 days. Right now the 7 day average of covid deaths in the US is 704 (and climbing). The 7 day average never dipped below 175 even at its very lowest point in early summer. So if things had stayed like that long term, we could have said it was about the same as a very bad flu season (putting aside questions about whether covid has more frequent/severe long term complications than flu).

Yup, when Covid deaths get to that same number per day for the nation and stay that way, THEN I will say that it's just like the flu. 

[Faith-manor]

9 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

Yup, when Covid deaths get to that same number per day for the nation and stay that way, THEN I will say that it's just like the flu. 

And even then it still won't be like the flu if it requires astronomical hospitalization rates in order to achieve that low number of deaths. We just don't need that same allocation of resources for influenza.

[mommyoffive]

An Alabama doctor watched patients reject the coronavirus vaccine. Now he’s refusing to treat them. (msn.com)

 

 

White House dismisses WHO objection to U.S. COVID booster program (msn.com)

Edited August 18, 2021 by mommyoffive

[whitestavern]

1 hour ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

Yes, there are unvaxxed people who wear masks.  But they aren't as safe to be around as vaxxed people wearing masks.  And you cannot be sure that those HCWs who are considering quitting do mask.  Many do not. 

Are you saying there are nurses in hospitals not wearing masks? I honestly can’t imagine that is true. 

[mommyoffive]

Biden to require vaccines for nursing home staff, AP source says | National | trib.com

[Faith-manor]

https://www.thv11.com/mobile/article/news/verify/yes-a-private-care-doctor-can-refuse-treatment-if-patient-isnt-vaccinated/91-614b7d30-c72f-4456-9f5a-fe52e94bf6ee

My guess is more doctors will follow suit. 

https://www.fox5atlanta.com/news/argosy-coronavirus-vaccination-requirement-threats

Restaurants are doing so, and I am sure it will be unpopular. But for some of us who are eschewing indoor dining, something like this if numbers go down, might woo us back.

I am seeing more and more venues posting this policy in the cities, but not up here in my rural area.

[kokotg]

8 minutes ago, whitestavern said:

Are you saying there are nurses in hospitals not wearing masks? I honestly can’t imagine that is true. 

I'm having to look for a new dentist because two of the hygienists weren't wearing masks while working with patients on our last visit. And when I visit my grandmother's assisted living place, more of the people working there than not are either not wearing masks or wearing them incorrectly (on one visit, the woman running bingo pulled down her mask every time she called out a number). The last time I talked to my dad, he told me that the whole place was on (another) two week lockdown (residents couldn't leave their rooms) because a staff member had tested positive.

[whitestavern]

Just now, kokotg said:

I'm having to look for a new dentist because two of the hygienists weren't wearing masks while working with patients on our last visit. And when I visit my grandmother's assisted living place, more of the people working there than not are either not wearing masks or wearing them incorrectly (on one visit, the woman running bingo pulled down her mask every time she called out a number). The last time I talked to my dad, he told me that the whole place was on (another) two week lockdown (residents couldn't leave their rooms) because a staff member had tested positive.

Wow, that’s very surprising to me. But where I live many many people are still masking. And I haven’t come across any HCW who is not. 

[popmom]

10 minutes ago, mommyoffive said:

Biden to require vaccines for nursing home staff, AP source says | National | trib.com

This will be a catastrophe. Nursing homes have a terrible time keeping adequate staff as it is.

[Faith-manor]

I think there needs to be several prime time specials broadcast on every single channel, informing the population that yes indeed, your nose is connected to your respiratory system!

And forget AP biology for high school. I think we have to go back to rudimentary 4th grade anatomy with lots and lots of pictures and memes, maybe Samuel L Jackson narrating with F bombs in order to get the point across. High schoolers might listen to that and then go home and inform their parents. 😠

[heartlikealion]

During 2020 my son’s chiropractor refused to mask and discouraged it. But I would be very shocked to see a nurse not wearing a mask during a shift. The comment about the dental office — what?! Did they even wear a shield? Gross 

[regentrude]

2 minutes ago, heartlikealion said:

During 2020 my son’s chiropractor refused to mask and discouraged it. 

What is is with chiropractors??? My chiro practice never required masks in the office, neither for staff nor patients.
Another chiro was the leader of the local anti-mask protests.

[kokotg]

7 minutes ago, heartlikealion said:

During 2020 my son’s chiropractor refused to mask and discouraged it. But I would be very shocked to see a nurse not wearing a mask during a shift. The comment about the dental office — what?! Did they even wear a shield? Gross 

Right?! pandemic or not, you're inches from someone's filthy open mouth all day--why would you not WANT to wear a mask?! no shield. 

[Brittany1116]

18 hours ago, Faith-manor said:

Yes, he is rabidly against any precautions. He also has had a booster shot, something not available to the rest of the public yet, and though asymptomatic, has been given regeneron antibody treatment, something also rationed among the general public and very costly. Dh's brother couldn't get regeneron just a couple of months ago when he had, and he spent many, many hours in the ER. So the p.o.s. governor gets the primo, sucks to be serfs, Lord of the Land treatment while not even in danger, while others die who can't get it because no hospital beds. I would like to volunteer him for a one way trip to Mars.

Where is this? I know 2 people who had it last week in different parts of my state. 

[kbutton]

 

29 minutes ago, Faith-manor said:

https://www.fox5atlanta.com/news/argosy-coronavirus-vaccination-requirement-threats

Restaurants are doing so, and I am sure it will be unpopular. But for some of us who are eschewing indoor dining, something like this if numbers go down, might woo us back.

I am seeing more and more venues posting this policy in the cities, but not up here in my rural area.

It's happening here and there around here at music venues. Seems like someone mentioned airlines.

I still see "breakthrough" posts (after unfollowing or snoozing lots of people), whining about this. They refuse to get a Covid test or vaccinate for anything and see it as major oppression. One of the people is oh-so-oppressed; she's probably been on more vacations since Covid started than I've been on in the last 5-10 years. 

[mommyoffive]

Column: With fluvoxamine, doctors find an old drug that may actually work against COVID-19 (msn.com)

 

Drop in COVID-19 vaccine efficacy against Delta seen in U.S. nursing homes (msn.com)

 

 

CES 2022 will require attendees to show proof of vaccination (msn.com)

 

 

U.S. should focus on vaccinating the rest of the world before Covid booster shots, says Dr. Vin Gupta (msn.com)

 

Unemployment benefits will end soon for 7.5 million Americans. These extended pandemic-aid programs could help (msn.com)

 

Cardinal in serious condition after contracting COVID-19 (msn.com)

[JennyD]

35 minutes ago, mommyoffive said:

Column: With fluvoxamine, doctors find an old drug that may actually work against COVID-19 (msn.com)

I have been following this story -- first good news we've had about treatments in quite a while.

[Matryoshka]

1 hour ago, kokotg said:

Right?! pandemic or not, you're inches from someone's filthy open mouth all day--why would you not WANT to wear a mask?! no shield. 

Seriously.  All my dentists wore surgical masks *before* Covid was a thing (and I think also goggles!), because yuk. Now they're double-masked with face shields.

[Wheres Toto]

We have very good mask compliance around here.  I see about 75% of people in stores masking even though there is no general mandate.  We have mandates for schools and medical facilities.  Our numbers in generally are still pretty good.  

I went for a follow up with an orthopedic doctor this morning.  The nurse that brought me to the room and did some intake was wearing her mask around her chin.

A couple weeks ago, we all went to the eye doctor.  One nurse there was also not wearing her mask right, which made the kids uncomfortable but when we saw her next and were going to say something, she had it on right.  The doctor made a sarcastic comment about covid no longer being a problem once you leave a medical office.   He thought the requirement didn't make sense but wore a mask correctly the entire time.  

I figured the medical and schools were about protecting those who are likely to be most vulnerable.

[Jean in Newcastle]

2 hours ago, whitestavern said:

Are you saying there are nurses in hospitals not wearing masks? I honestly can’t imagine that is true. 

I have seen other people on this board report going to doctors where there were no masks on the doctor or nurses.  I have seen other reports of nurses who might wear a mask in the actual patient room but then pull them down in the halls, breakroom, waiting room, etc. which negates a lot of the usefulness of the mask.

I personally haven't seen it.  But I am in a high-vax area with very good  healthcare.  My husband (HCW) was vaxxed at work, masks, and can be tested at work if there is known exposure or symptoms - and he doesn't even do direct patient care.  Even my chiropractor masks. 

[Terabith]

I've been thinking about end game on this.  I feel like we've been very careful.  We've been far more careful than almost anyone I know in real life, although by the standards of folks on the board, I really am not.  Other than a brief three week period in June, we've only done take out or outdoor dining.  We've worn masks when indoors with anyone, with only a couple exceptions:  1) when we visit with my in laws and eat with them a couple times a week, and 2) when my youngest child socializes with a small group of friends, all of whom are vaccinated.  Our exposure will increase dramatically next week when my kids return to in person school, and I won't lie, I am pretty anxious about that, but for academic, social, and emotional reasons, I think they very much need to go.  

I do figure we are all likely to contract covid at some point.  I trust that vaccination is likely to ameliorate the risk to a large degree, and we will get boosters when it is our turn to do so.  

Other than travel and things like theater and movies, we are mostly living life normally, just with masks.  We don't have a high risk lifestyle, and I definitely have more anxiety over doing what needs to be done.  But we're going to medical appointments and picking up books from the library and take out from restaurants and doing in person grocery shopping and what not.  

[SoCal_Bear]

11 hours ago, whitestavern said:

You might want to get another test. My vaxxed friend was exposed to Covid, tested negative, then had another test 8 days after exposure and tested positive. All symptoms were gastrointestinal related. 

What did she test with? I went and got a PCR test done. Those are pretty accurate and I did it when symptomatic with gastrointestinal issues.

 

[HSmomof2]

4 hours ago, kokotg said:

I'm having to look for a new dentist because two of the hygienists weren't wearing masks while working with patients on our last visit. And when I visit my grandmother's assisted living place, more of the people working there than not are either not wearing masks or wearing them incorrectly (on one visit, the woman running bingo pulled down her mask every time she called out a number). The last time I talked to my dad, he told me that the whole place was on (another) two week lockdown (residents couldn't leave their rooms) because a staff member had tested positive.

That’s gross…..our dentist and staff have always worn masks when working with patients…..long before Covid even existed. I don’t even remember the last time I saw a dentist or hygienist without a mask, maybe as a kid? 

[whitestavern]

13 minutes ago, calbear said:

What did she test with? I went and got a PCR test done. Those are pretty accurate and I did it when symptomatic with gastrointestinal issues.

 

Two negative rapids then a positive PCR. 

[kokotg]

16 minutes ago, HSmomof2 said:

That’s gross…..our dentist and staff have always worn masks when working with patients…..long before Covid even existed. I don’t even remember the last time I saw a dentist or hygienist without a mask, maybe as a kid? 

Yeah, I was pretty shocked. I should clarify that they were technically wearing masks...but they were ill fitting surgical masks that stayed under their noses all the time (i.e. it wasn't that they kept slipping down, and they'd pull them back up). I honestly can't remember now if everyone wore masks there pre-pandemic. It wasn't on my radar, even though it probably should have been. 

 

[mommyoffive]

NYC Was Unprepared for COVID-19 Pandemic With Expired Supplies, Report Says (msn.com)

 

 

With no beds, hospitals ship patients to far-off cities (msn.com)

 

'Not a disaster': Chicago officials tout Lollapalooza as success with 'no evidence' of being COVID-19 superspreader (msn.com)

 

‘It’s the height of hypocrisy’: After Texas Gov. Greg Abbott contracts covid-19, Democrats ramp up calls for mask mandates (msn.com)

[AmandaVT]

DH and I have been trying to figure out VT's current plan. As a state, we were so cautious in the beginning, but recently it's seemed much less so. I think our governor and health department are now of the mind that only 2% of cases are in vaccinated people, so focus on protecting kids under 12 and otherwise live life as you want. Masking in school for schools w/ students under 12 and other schools until they're at an 80% vaccination rate. Otherwise, don't worry? I think that's the message we're getting now. Deciding how I feel about it - I don't think I mind. It seems very - "you have a choice to get vaccinated, if you choose not to, it's on you." Probably only (may) work because we're more than 85% vaccinated?

 

 

[mommyoffive]

Garth Brooks Cancels Stadium Tour for 2021, Saying 'I Must Do My Part' - Variety

 

Biden Administration to Use Federal Civil Rights Office to Deter States From School Mask Bans - The New York Times (nytimes.com)

 

Texas Covid-19: State grapples with worsening numbers as health officials warn of full ICUs (msn.com)

 

US coronavirus: Rates of Covid-19 hospitalizations for children and adults under 50 reach their highest levels yet, CDC data shows (msn.com)

 

Experts say we're likely undercounting Covid cases right now. Here's why. (msn.com)

Edited August 19, 2021 by mommyoffive

[hshibley]

1 hour ago, AmandaVT said:

DH and I have been trying to figure out VT's current plan. As a state, we were so cautious in the beginning, but recently it's seemed much less so. I think our governor and health department are now of the mind that only 2% of cases are in vaccinated people, so focus on protecting kids under 12 and otherwise live life as you want. Masking in school for schools w/ students under 12 and other schools until they're at an 80% vaccination rate. Otherwise, don't worry? I think that's the message we're getting now. Deciding how I feel about it - I don't think I mind. It seems very - "you have a choice to get vaccinated, if you choose not to, it's on you." Probably only (may) work because we're more than 85% vaccinated?

 

 

Honestly I like that response. In my opinion once there are effective vaccines for the under 12 crowd and ample time for them to be vaccinated we will have to let it run its course. I have unvaccinated relatives. There is nothing you can do to change their minds (they are over 75yo so by definition high risk). I live in an area with a low vaccination rate where currently over 90+% of covid cases are the unvaccinated nearly all covid deaths and hospitalizations are unvaccinated and still the unvaccinated are not changing their minds or masking up. The vast majority of the unvaccinated are too deep into their conspiracy theories to be helped. 

[HeartString]

14 minutes ago, hshibley said:

Honestly I like that response. In my opinion once there are effective vaccines for the under 12 crowd and ample time for them to be vaccinated we will have to let it run its course. I have unvaccinated relatives. There is nothing you can do to change their minds (they are over 75yo so by definition high risk). I live in an area with a low vaccination rate where currently over 90+% of covid cases are the unvaccinated nearly all covid deaths and hospitalizations are unvaccinated and still the unvaccinated are not changing their minds or masking up. The vast majority of the unvaccinated are too deep into their conspiracy theories to be helped. 

And “run it’s course” and “you do you, I’ll do me” is what most of the unvaccinated folks have been asking for since the beginning.   My vaccine drops my risk of severe illness to a level I’m comfortable with.  Haven’t they been crying about everyone doing their own risk analysis?  Giving what they have been crying for does not make me a bad person. 
 

[sangtarah]

35 minutes ago, mommyoffive said:

Garth Brooks Cancels Stadium Tour for 2021, Saying 'I Must Do My Part' - Variety

I very much wish he had cancelled before his visit to Lincoln, NE. We live in a city nearby and school started the same week - many districts mask optional. The concert drew ~90,000 people, not a mask in sight (saw many pics). 

I anticipate an explosion of cases soon, and I made the decision to drop my needed Physical Therapy where no masks are required. 😒

 

[hshibley]

12 minutes ago, HeartString said:

And “run it’s course” and “you do you, I’ll do me” is what most of the unvaccinated folks have been asking for since the beginning.   My vaccine drops my risk of severe illness to a level I’m comfortable with.  Haven’t they been crying about everyone doing their own risk analysis?  Giving what they have been crying for does not make me a bad person. 
 

I agree I just would like to wait a few more months until the under 12 crowd can be vaccinated. Where I am the unvaccinated want to let it rip now and really don’t give 2 figs about the under 12’s. Yes the risk to under 12’s is low, but after the vaccine is available to them it’s significantly lower. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

Wow. I am so glad to live in my state and especially my highly vaccinated county. Schools haven’t started yet but there is a mask mandate for schools. A new vaccination mandate for educators , bus drivers and childcare workers. (Don’t know if that includes private schools). And now a new general indoor mask mandate. People will make it political and will complain but it’s not. I just don’t understand why person can’t understand that this is being done to protect our state in multiple ways including the ability to “live life”. 

[Matryoshka]

24 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

Wow. I am so glad to live in my state and especially my highly vaccinated county. Schools haven’t started yet but there is a mask mandate for schools. A new vaccination mandate for educators , bus drivers and childcare workers. (Don’t know if that includes private schools). And now a new general indoor mask mandate. People will make it political and will complain but it’s not. I just don’t understand why person can’t understand that this is being done to protect our state in multiple ways including the ability to “live life”. 

Exactly.  A mask mandate is what I would like from our governor so I could 'live life'.  With the vax effectiveness waning, I do not feel safe 'living life' with a bunch of unmasked, and possibly unvaxxed people running around in public.  

[Starr]

I guess folks don’t understand how much health care costs can increase for all of us by not getting this under control.

[ktgrok]

3 hours ago, AmandaVT said:

DH and I have been trying to figure out VT's current plan. As a state, we were so cautious in the beginning, but recently it's seemed much less so. I think our governor and health department are now of the mind that only 2% of cases are in vaccinated people, so focus on protecting kids under 12 and otherwise live life as you want. Masking in school for schools w/ students under 12 and other schools until they're at an 80% vaccination rate. Otherwise, don't worry? I think that's the message we're getting now. Deciding how I feel about it - I don't think I mind. It seems very - "you have a choice to get vaccinated, if you choose not to, it's on you." Probably only (may) work because we're more than 85% vaccinated?

 

 

Is that 85% both doses or one? One isn't very effective against Delta. And since kids go more places than just schools, we shouldn't be acting like anyone who wants to can be vaccinated in stores and other public places. I had to take my 4 yr old to the laundromat today when my washer broke. Maybe 1/3 of the people work a mask, some of those didn't have it over their nose. I had her in a good filtering mask but man, we got in and out quickly. 

2 hours ago, hshibley said:

I agree I just would like to wait a few more months until the under 12 crowd can be vaccinated. Where I am the unvaccinated want to let it rip now and really don’t give 2 figs about the under 12’s. Yes the risk to under 12’s is low, but after the vaccine is available to them it’s significantly lower. 

Exactly.