At what point would you lock down again?

[Not_a_Number]

5 minutes ago, SKL said:

Yes, the bias in the pile-ons (including this one) is very easy to recognize.

No one is piling on. We're all answering the question. Basically every single person I know who's anti-vaccine is a Biden supporter. I already had a huge fight with a local ex-friend about masking and distancing, so you'd think I'd have some believability here. 

I'm not fighting with people about their vaccine status, because I understand that one better, even though I think they are highly misguided. Like, it honestly makes me less angry, especially when people have medical fears about it. (The fact that I had a rough time with Pfizer doesn't hurt when I try to call up some empathy, either.) Now, does that mean I think they aren't being foolish and aren't putting themselves at risk? No. I still think they are making a terrible decision. But the one person I socialize with who won't vaccinate is also extremely careful, so I'm at least not as worried about her putting ME at risk. (Plus we only socialize masked outside.)

Edited August 23, 2021 by Not_a_Number

[MEmama]

7 minutes ago, cintinative said:

Could you please explain what this means? A google search is coming up with unhelpful results

https://www.britannica.com/science/projection-psychology
 

I added the transparent part, because it’s become so easy to recognize. Sadly. 
 

eta: I know it’s not polite of me to point it out but I’m in a idgaf mood today. Just absolutely over it.

Edited August 23, 2021 by MEmama

[cintinative]

3 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

No one is piling on. We're all answering the question. Basically every single person I know who's anti-vaccine is a Biden supporter. I already had a huge fight with a local ex-friend about masking and distancing, so you'd think I'd have some believability here. 

 

Interestingly, my experience is the opposite. Most people I know who are anti-vaxx are also anti-mask and firm Trump supporters.  They are coming at it from the "you can't tell me what to do" angle (or so it seems?).  

[Matryoshka]

9 minutes ago, Junie said:

But there are likely going to be students who don't fall into these categories.

Other vaccine mandates that I have seen -- including for federal employees -- offer an opt out if they agree to frequent (weekly?) testing.

I think that UVa could offer something similar for this handful of students.

And then require vaccinations for any new students.

My kids don't have a few mandated vaxes.  They have medical exemptions.  You better believe I had to submit paperwork in a timely manner to enroll them in college.  No one offered them weekly testing as an option.  The vaccine is now FDA approved, and those students still have weeks to get their act together.  But really, they've been warned and warned and warned.  Yes, people have choices and choices have consequences.  They were told what the consequences were.  I do not think we need to keep bending over backwards to cushion these people from the consequences of their very deliberately made choices. 

Edited August 23, 2021 by Matryoshka

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, cintinative said:

Interestingly, my experience is the opposite. Most people I know who are anti-vaxx are also anti-mask and firm Trump supporters.  They are coming at it from the "you can't tell me what to do" angle (or so it seems?).  

Yes, I think on average people who are anti-vaccine are more likely to be Trump supporters. It's just that if you live in Manhattan and you mostly associate with homeschoolers and university folks and middle class people living in Manhattan, then 95% of people you know are Biden supporters 😛 . Maybe more. So then the anti-vaxxers you know are probably crunchy granola types and not Trump supporters. At least, that's the case for me. 

[SKL]

6 minutes ago, MEmama said:

 I’m in a idgaf mood today. Just absolutely over it.

Same.

[sassenach]

21 minutes ago, cintinative said:

This may have been discussed ad nauseum but I am still interested at how churches are responding to this.

My church has still not put out a new policy (as of this third? fourth? wave).  I hear it will be sometime soon. Our hospitals are already struggling though due to the HCW shortage mentioned in another thread.  Our numbers are higher than they were in Feb (pre vaccine). Right now the policy is "masks are optional for everyone." Only four or five people are masking out of 250.

A friend's church is requiring masking AND vaccination for all children's and youth workers.  I have not heard of that anywhere.  I am really surprised. Our area leans very conservative and it seems that lately has translated to "anti mask mandate." 

I used to think I was a conservative but I no longer know what I am. All I know is, there are kids in my church who cannot be vaxxed, and babies, and I feel i need to do my part and mask for them, even if I am only one of four or five.

 

Our church will for sure never require vaccines but we did move services back outdoors a few weeks ago. 

[73349]

My church remains mask-required and has returned to no congregate singing (and added some ASL this week so the congregation could still participate). I'm still only there via the livestream because our other activities are at or over what I'm comfortable with for a risk budget. Right now it looks like this:

Scouts, music lessons and one more activity that starts next week for DS - in person, masked

School, DH's work, and both churches - at/from home

YMCA - even with masks required, people are doing a terrible job complying (to the extent that I'm pondering quitting it again), so we're down to two 20-minute workouts a week and trying to finish them and get out by ~6 AM.

Grocery shopping - back to mostly curbside. *sigh*

Restaurants - occasional takeout, no dining in. (For other reasons, most restaurants are not an option for us anyway.)

Other social interaction - outdoors and when practical, masked. We have 2 family members coming in person in early October, and they will be unmasked in our house, and that's it.

[KSera]

23 minutes ago, cintinative said:

This may have been discussed ad nauseum but I am still interested at how churches are responding to this.

My church has still not put out a new policy (as of this third? fourth? wave).  I hear it will be sometime soon. Our hospitals are already struggling though due to the HCW shortage mentioned in another thread.  Our numbers are higher than they were in Feb (pre vaccine). Right now the policy is "masks are optional for everyone." Only four or five people are masking out of 250.

A friend's church is requiring masking AND vaccination for all children's and youth workers.  I have not heard of that anywhere.  I am really surprised. Our area leans very conservative and it seems that lately has translated to "anti mask mandate." 

I used to think I was a conservative but I no longer know what I am. All I know is, there are kids in my church who cannot be vaxxed, and babies, and I feel i need to do my part and mask for them, even if I am only one of four or five.

 

Our church started back in person late Spring with masks required, then dropped the mask requirement for vaccinated people when the CDC announcement came through. A few weeks ago, they requested everyone to mask again indoors (but I  notice from the online video that unlike before the CDC announcement, this time not everybody has followed the request).  Attendance is VERY sparse these last few weeks since Delta started surging. Mostly older people. I don’t see any kids on the video feed. 

19 minutes ago, SKL said:

Yes, the bias in the pile-ons (including this one) is very easy to recognize.

Where is the pile on? I was just seeing people answering the question you asked. So far, all but one didn’t see how political party would be relevant, but agreement does not equal pile on. The Politicization of this crappy virus has made it so much worse than it had to be. 

18 minutes ago, Junie said:

But there are likely going to be students who don't fall into these categories.

Other vaccine mandates that I have seen -- including for federal employees -- offer an opt out if they agree to frequent (weekly?) testing.

I think that UVa could offer something similar for this handful of students.

 

With other mandated vaccines, the deal is that anyone who hasn’t had it, even if they have an approved waiver, has to be excluded from campus if there’s an outbreak of a disease. If a kid isn’t vaccinated for measles and there’s a measles outbreak on campus, they can’t go to school. There’s currently an active disease outbreak, so it’s consistent that they are not able to attend.

[Jean in Newcastle]

1 hour ago, SKL said:

At this point, the majority of people I personally know to be unvaxed were Biden supporters.

Wonder if that knowledge would change the tone and focus of these discussions.

Refusing the vaccination is a risk to your health and that of your family and community no matter what your politics. But there are more extreme people (who seem to come with a whole package of beliefs that make it less likely to accept the vaccine because of those beliefs). Those people can be across the political spectrum but tend to be clustered at the far right and the far left. People in this thread and others are simply saying that they aren’t super surprised when people within those clusters turn out to be unvaccinated. 

[ktgrok]

2 hours ago, Pawz4me said:

No. Because I'm pretty sure your experience is an outlier. Probably many, many miles outside the norm.

I know a chunk of people that are anti vaccine and either don't vote, or vote third party. Think "heal your cancer with essential oils" types. I won't hang out with them either. 

1 hour ago, FuzzyCatz said:

This.  If you are choosing not to vax due to conspiracy theories and misinformation, I don't care who you are or what you believe in.  

This. And if your actions or lack there of put my kid at risk, my family at risk, I'm not hanging out with you. Period. 

 

58 minutes ago, cintinative said:

This may have been discussed ad nauseum but I am still interested at how churches are responding to this.

My church has still not put out a new policy (as of this third? fourth? wave).  I hear it will be sometime soon. Our hospitals are already struggling though due to the HCW shortage mentioned in another thread.  Our numbers are higher than they were in Feb (pre vaccine). Right now the policy is "masks are optional for everyone." Only four or five people are masking out of 250.

A friend's church is requiring masking AND vaccination for all children's and youth workers.  I have not heard of that anywhere.  I am really surprised. Our area leans very conservative and it seems that lately has translated to "anti mask mandate." 

I used to think I was a conservative but I no longer know what I am. All I know is, there are kids in my church who cannot be vaxxed, and babies, and I feel i need to do my part and mask for them, even if I am only one of four or five.

 

Many in my area do nothing. Maybe some token hand sanitizer. Others think they are totally strict because they require masks of unvaccinated people, but of course not kids! One requires masks of everyone and actually went back to a soloist (masked and distanced) rather than a choir. Guess where I'm going and changing my weekly offering to?

[Corraleno]

1 hour ago, Junie said:

But there are likely going to be students who don't fall into these categories.

Other vaccine mandates that I have seen -- including for federal employees -- offer an opt out if they agree to frequent (weekly?) testing.

I think that UVa could offer something similar for this handful of students.

And then require vaccinations for any new students.

UVA does offer the option of masking plus weekly testing — to students with religious or medical waivers. Students who have no religious or medical reason not to get a vaccine that is required by their university, but choose to refuse it anyway, can also choose to transfer to a school without that requirement.

[saraha]

13 hours ago, kbutton said:

Will this affect more than just Covid shots like the stuff pending in Ohio.

Oh no, what stuff?

[Not_a_Number]

28 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

I know a chunk of people that are anti vaccine and either don't vote, or vote third party. Think "heal your cancer with essential oils" types. I won't hang out with them either. 

Yeah, I know those, too. But a bunch of those types do vote for Democrats. 

[Sneezyone]

1 hour ago, cintinative said:

This may have been discussed ad nauseum but I am still interested at how churches are responding to this.

My church has still not put out a new policy (as of this third? fourth? wave).  I hear it will be sometime soon. Our hospitals are already struggling though due to the HCW shortage mentioned in another thread.  Our numbers are higher than they were in Feb (pre vaccine). Right now the policy is "masks are optional for everyone." Only four or five people are masking out of 250.

A friend's church is requiring masking AND vaccination for all children's and youth workers.  I have not heard of that anywhere.  I am really surprised. Our area leans very conservative and it seems that lately has translated to "anti mask mandate." 

I used to think I was a conservative but I no longer know what I am. All I know is, there are kids in my church who cannot be vaxxed, and babies, and I feel i need to do my part and mask for them, even if I am only one of four or five.

 

The church I attended yesterday in SoCal was 80% unmasked, babies and small children were present. The pastor explained that his wife had been hospitalized for 11 days and is still recovering months later…then proceeded to tell the congregants that ‘they’ were trying to destroy the church by masking (silencing) and distancing (no fellowship) and they should all sign up to serve and rebuild what was lost (55% of church attendees). It was such an incredibly gross experience. Yet another reason why I’m glad my sister and niece did not come on this trip.

Edited August 23, 2021 by Sneezyone

[Not_a_Number]

1 minute ago, Sneezyone said:

The church I attended yesterday in SoCal was 80% unmasked, babies and small children were present. The pastor explained that his wife had been hospitalized for 11 days and is still recovering months later…then proceeded to tell he congregants that ‘they’ were trying to destroy the church by masking (silencing) and distancing (no fellowship) and they should all sign up to serve and rebuild what was lost (55% of church attendees). It was such an incredibly gross experience. Yet another reason why I’m glad my sister and niece did not come on this trip.

Ugh. How do they live with themselves??? 

[Junie]

6 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

UVA does offer the option of masking plus weekly testing — to students with religious or medical waivers. Students who have no religious or medical reason not to get a vaccine that is required by their university, but choose to refuse it anyway, can also choose to transfer to a school without that requirement.

Yes, I understand that.  I just think it's unfortunate that these students will have to transfer, leave all of their friends, move (maybe out of state) and possibly not graduate on time.

I was thinking of my own kids.  One of my daughters (a high school senior) has only found one or two schools that offer what she wants.  Transferring as a junior or senior would be extremely difficult if not impossible.

Yes, the easy answer is of course to get the vaccine.  But there might be factors other than religious or medical that are keeping these students from getting the vaccine.  I know a college student who is hesitant about getting vaccinated because she was raised very anti-vax.  She is trying to come out from under her parents' wings a bit, but so far getting vaccinated has not been a step that she has been (emotionally) able to take.  I mean, I know that the students involved in this situation most likely have no.good.reason, but I still think that there should be a way to allow them to graduate.  

 

[Faith-manor]

7 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

UVA does offer the option of masking plus weekly testing — to students with religious or medical waivers. Students who have no religious or medical reason not to get a vaccine that is required by their university, but choose to refuse it anyway, can also choose to transfer to a school without that requirement.

Well then, I don't have sympathy. A way forward was made, and the students dropped the ball. Their bad! The school is off the hook.

That said, I would really like colleges to stop spending ungodly wealth on sports and administrative salaries and put some thought and action into making things better for the students in terms of getting the coursework they need to graduate because last year was a crapshoot in which all the effort seemed to go to making sure sports went forward, but not much else, and we are heading into round two of crapping on academics during the pandemic which is not the professors faults because the administration has bungled everything from scheduling, to not hiring enough instructors to cover the online work, to not having enough T.A.'s to handle the technology issues foe the professors, to firing instructors because "covid, we can't afford the faculty because of how much all of this costs" except that they all got state and federal dollars to help so it is nothing but a big lousy excuse, to....ya. You can tell I am not happy with the some college administrators at the moment!

But, this new information leads me to believe UVA is not on the hook here. They made reasonable accommodations and the students didn't take advantage of it and just hoped they would get away with it. Bye bye students.

[wathe]

1 hour ago, Junie said:

But there are likely going to be students who don't fall into these categories.

Other vaccine mandates that I have seen -- including for federal employees -- offer an opt out if they agree to frequent (weekly?) testing.

I think that UVa could offer something similar for this handful of students.

And then require vaccinations for any new students.

I think the regular-testing-in-lieu-of-vax option is going to be phased out by most institutions and employers.  Weekly testing pretty much tells you too little, too late - that there has already been workplace exposure by the time the employee has their positive weekly test.  Prevention (vaccine) vs mitigation (testing).

A large local hospital is in the process of phasing out regular testing as an option now.  I think that other hospitals and other instructions that serve vulnerable populations in the province will follow suit, then schools, then other workplaces

Edited August 23, 2021 by wathe

[Corraleno]

23 minutes ago, saraha said:

Oh no, what stuff?

"HB 244 will require schools and universities to implement a one size fits all method of infection control. The law requires schools and universities treat individuals who are vaccinated the same as those who are unvaccinated. This will have a direct impact on the ability to require unvaccinated individuals to wear masks, undergo testing, quarantine or live in separate congregate housing"

HB 244 also prohibits schools from requiring any vaccine that is still under EUA, but that would no longer apply to Pfizer. It was signed by DeWine and will go into effect on October 13th. The R-controlled legislature has indicated that they will pass a law extending the prohibition on vaccine mandates to those that are FDA approved, but DeWine has said he will veto that if it passes. Obviously a law prohibiting mandates for ALL vaccines would have a pretty significant effect on schools and universities in Ohio.

DS's university currently requires that anyone who is not vaccinated must be tested at least weekly, and I believe they had different quarantine rules for vaxxed and unvaxxed, but once the law goes into effect in October, they plan to just make everyone test weekly rather than remove the testing requirement for unvaccinated students, and presumably all exposed or infected students will now have the same quarantine requirements regardless of vaccination status. Which sucks for the vast majority of kids who've done the right thing.

Edited August 23, 2021 by Corraleno

[Sneezyone]

36 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

Ugh. How do they live with themselves??? 

The irony of telling your congregants not to walk in fear because they’ll end up in a good place regardless, while ginning up fears of ‘them’ destroying your five-campus, international, megachurch-in-waiting is thick. There were people CLAPPING at the end of the lecture.

Edited August 23, 2021 by Sneezyone

[kbutton]

41 minutes ago, saraha said:

Oh no, what stuff?

Will answer this when I respond to Corraleno below.

19 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

"HB 244 will require schools and universities to implement a one size fits all method of infection control. The law requires schools and universities treat individuals who are vaccinated the same as those who are unvaccinated. This will have a direct impact on the ability to require unvaccinated individuals to wear masks, undergo testing, quarantine or live in separate congregate housing"

HB 244 also prohibits schools from requiring any vaccine that is still under EUA, but that would no longer apply to Pfizer. It was signed by DeWine and will go into effect on October 13th. The R-controlled legislature has indicated that they will pass a law extending the prohibition on vaccine mandates to those that are FDA approved, but DeWine has said he will veto that if it passes. Obviously a law prohibiting mandates for ALL vaccines would have a pretty significant effect on schools and universities in Ohio.

DS's university currently requires that anyone who is not vaccinated must be tested at least weekly, and I believe they had different quarantine rules for vaxxed and unvaxxed, but once the law goes into effect in October, they plan to just make everyone test weekly rather than remove the testing requirement for unvaccinated students, and presumably all exposed or infected students will now have the same quarantine requirements regardless of vaccination status. Which sucks for the vast majority of kids who've done the right thing.

As bad as this is, this is only for Covid/EUA vaccines. It get WORSE.

This one hasn't gotten as far yet, but it doesn't even mention Covid, which means it will affect all vaccinations. It's utterly insane.

https://www.legislature.ohio.gov/legislation/legislation-summary?id=GA134-HB-248

Full text: https://search-prod.lis.state.oh.us/solarapi/v1/general_assembly_134/bills/hb248/PHC/02/hb248_02_PHC?format=pdf

Quote

To amend section 3345.47, to enact section 3792.02, and to repeal sections 1713.55, 3332.25, 3345.85, and 3701.133 of the Revised Code to prohibit mandatory vaccinations, vaccination status disclosures, and certain other actions regarding vaccinations and to name this act the Vaccine Choice and Anti-Discrimination Act.

...

(1) Except as provided in division (C)(2) of this section, no person, public official or employee, public agency, state agency, political subdivision, school, child day-care center, nursing home, residential care facility, health care provider, insurer, institution, or employer shall do any of the following: (a) Mandate, require, or otherwise request an individual to disclose the individual's vaccine status; (b) Mandate, require, or otherwise request participation in a vaccine passport system, vaccine registry, or other mechanism that is designed for the purpose of tracking an individual's vaccine status; (c) Disclose an individual's vaccination status.

As far as I can tell, this means that an employer cannot ask an employee what their vaccination status is, including healthcare facilities. Generally, HCWs have to have certain immunizations and/or titers, pass a TB test, etc. 

If someone wants to read the whole thing and tell me where I am wrong, I'd be happy to be pulled off the cliff on this one, but I am just done. 

[Corraleno]

6 minutes ago, kbutton said:

Will answer this when I respond to Corraleno below.

As bad as this is, this is only for Covid/EUA vaccines. It get WORSE.

This one hasn't gotten as far yet, but it doesn't even mention Covid, which means it will affect all vaccinations. It's utterly insane.

https://www.legislature.ohio.gov/legislation/legislation-summary?id=GA134-HB-248

Full text: https://search-prod.lis.state.oh.us/solarapi/v1/general_assembly_134/bills/hb248/PHC/02/hb248_02_PHC?format=pdf

As far as I can tell, this means that an employer cannot ask an employee what their vaccination status is, including healthcare facilities. Generally, HCWs have to have certain immunizations and/or titers, pass a TB test, etc. 

If someone wants to read the whole thing and tell me where I am wrong, I'd be happy to be pulled off the cliff on this one, but I am just done. 

I believe that's the one that DeWIne said he would definitely veto if it passes.

[kbutton]

6 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

The irony of telling your congregants not to walk in fear because they’ll end up in a good place regardless, while ginning up fears of ‘them’ destroying your five-campus, international, megachurch-in-waiting is thick. There were people CLAPPING at the end of the lecture.

It really burns me up because in my personal circles, the people who say stuff like "they'll end up in a good place" also believe that babies who are aborted will go to heaven, but if I pointed out to them that makes pro-life efforts silly, they would be enraged. (I am pro-life, and I think that means caring for the already born as well.)

@cintinative, regarding church, I guess I'm going to have to go to a mainline church and be done with it or stay home. Our former church mandated masks and told people who didn't want to mask to stay home. I printed this out from the website. In reality, people wore masks into the building, and then lots of people took them off when they sat down, but they didn't remove their "requirements" from the website, so it looked like a big lie. From the pulpit (from what I hear), almost nothing has been said, at all, about the pandemic. Now that the mandate expired generally (even though it never applied to churches), they are back to normal, though they phased in opening up classes for kids, etc. We are trying another church that did mask and distance until July. From the pulpit, they begged people to get vaccinated. Now they are not distancing, and most people are not masking. I guess that because they probably have a higher vax rate than the rest of the community, they don't feel they can do more? I don't know. I wish they would mask for the kids. I don't really understand. We are attending Sunday School where there is no singing, and then we leave before the regular service that has lots of singing (and has heavier attendance--they are outgrowing their space). 

On a local FB community page, someone asked about churches that mask, especially around unvaccinated kids, and while they got a couple of mainline suggestions, most of what they got was mockery. 

In our former church, many people who were members as of the beginning of the pandemic (some of whom may have left like we did) are advocating for laws that strip the governor of power or disallow hospital systems and other businesses to require vaccines, etc. One person literally is asking people to fast and pray to get another of these laws passed. She's copied dozens of people from that church on her post to recruit them to fast and pray. 

I am weary of it all. 

[kbutton]

2 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

I believe that's the one that DeWIne said he would definitely veto if it passes.

He vetoed the one that stripped him of his powers, and it passed over his veto. I have zero hope, and I have personal acquaintances advocating for this. It's just too much and too personal. I am pretty sure that speaking out against it will make people who are neutral think I am tactless and mean.

With friends like this, who needs enemies? The few friends I have left are all pretty neutral--they don't want to lose their entire social circle even if they are closer to my line of thought than the crazy one. And loyalty is very, very highly prized here. They close ranks if their friends are attacked in any way even if their friend is batpoop crazy and has dangerous ideas that betray what would've been considered commonly held beliefs in the group just a few years ago.

[73349]

I cannot fathom people not only not caring if they spread SARS-CoV-2, but looking to go so far as to remove protections from measles, polio, etc., as well. I... like.... you have a right to die, perhaps, but not to kill the rest of us.

[Not_a_Number]

1 minute ago, kbutton said:

He vetoed the one that stripped him of his powers, and it passed over his veto. I have zero hope, and I have personal acquaintances advocating for this. It's just too much and too personal. I am pretty sure that speaking out against it will make people who are neutral think I am tactless and mean.

Wait, things can pass over a veto?? How does that work? 

 

1 minute ago, kbutton said:

With friends like this, who needs enemies? The few friends I have left are all pretty neutral--they don't want to lose their entire social circle even if they are closer to my line of thought than the crazy one. And loyalty is very, very highly prized here. They close ranks if their friends are attacked in any way even if their friend is batpoop crazy and has dangerous ideas that betray what would've been considered commonly held beliefs in the group just a few years ago.

Ugh. Move? 

[kbutton]

Just now, Not_a_Number said:

Wait, things can pass over a veto?? How does that work? 

 

Ugh. Move? 

It goes back to the legislature, and if the vote is high enough (maybe 2/3 majority?), it passes. Most legislatures work this way, and I think it works like this federally. 

DH just started a new job that could turn out to be his best ever both professionally and financially (in time, there may be options to change locations, but it's a small company with not a lot of geographic spread). Older DS is in a program that he probably can't do somewhere else and it's for two years. Younger DS should be near a tertiary medical center for life or at least not someplace too far away from one. We're not great at forward planning as a couple--we tried to take the bull by the horns and leave here a very long time ago, but it didn't work out, so we planted ourselves here. If we moved, we'd want to be near family, and there isn't a lot of opportunity all that close to them, and people there are getting more radicalized as well (though Covid itself is far less political than here). 

In spite of all that, I am seriously considering it. 

[Faith-manor]

49 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

"HB 244 will require schools and universities to implement a one size fits all method of infection control. The law requires schools and universities treat individuals who are vaccinated the same as those who are unvaccinated. This will have a direct impact on the ability to require unvaccinated individuals to wear masks, undergo testing, quarantine or live in separate congregate housing"

HB 244 also prohibits schools from requiring any vaccine that is still under EUA, but that would no longer apply to Pfizer. It was signed by DeWine and will go into effect on October 13th. The R-controlled legislature has indicated that they will pass a law extending the prohibition on vaccine mandates to those that are FDA approved, but DeWine has said he will veto that if it passes. Obviously a law prohibiting mandates for ALL vaccines would have a pretty significant effect on schools and universities in Ohio.

DS's university currently requires that anyone who is not vaccinated must be tested at least weekly, and I believe they had different quarantine rules for vaxxed and unvaxxed, but once the law goes into effect in October, they plan to just make everyone test weekly rather than remove the testing requirement for unvaccinated students, and presumably all exposed or infected students will now have the same quarantine requirements regardless of vaccination status. Which sucks for the vast majority of kids who've done the right thing.

Wow! That legislation is evil. Pure.Evil. and it sure does punish the students who did their part to stop the transmission of this disease.

I wonder if there is any way for colleges and schools to push the costs of any epidemics on campus due to this. Have to quarantine a dorm because of measles? State has to pay for extra staff, food delivered to the dorms, the entire care of the students in quarantine. Would the money aspect talk? Could students and parents sue the state?

Oy! I really want to believe there is some way to punish the state legislature for this! Seriously, Ohioans, stop voting for these idiots!!

[SKL]

6 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

Wait, things can pass over a veto?? How does that work? 

 

Ugh. Move? 

Does NY not have veto override?  In OH a 3/5 vote of the House and Senate can override the governor's veto.

 

[Faith-manor]

13 minutes ago, Carolina Wren said:

I cannot fathom people not only not caring if they spread SARS-CoV-2, but looking to go so far as to remove protections from measles, polio, etc., as well. I... like.... you have a right to die, perhaps, but not to kill the rest of us.

Bingo! And at this point if they want to live in the dark ages, then I am all for them having their own compounds to go live in and spread their crap to each other. Keep their damn measles, polio, and diphtheria to themselves!

If Alabama ever passes something like this, we would have to consider selling the house we just bought, and helping dd and family get the hell out of there!

Edited August 23, 2021 by Faith-manor

[Not_a_Number]

8 minutes ago, kbutton said:

It goes back to the legislature, and if the vote is high enough (maybe 2/3 majority?), it passes. Most legislatures work this way, and I think it works like this federally. 

DH just started a new job that could turn out to be his best ever both professionally and financially (in time, there may be options to change locations, but it's a small company with not a lot of geographic spread). Older DS is in a program that he probably can't do somewhere else and it's for two years. Younger DS should be near a tertiary medical center for life or at least not someplace too far away from one. We're not great at forward planning as a couple--we tried to take the bull by the horns and leave here a very long time ago, but it didn't work out, so we planted ourselves here. If we moved, we'd want to be near family, and there isn't a lot of opportunity all that close to them, and people there are getting more radicalized as well (though Covid itself is far less political than here). 

In spite of all that, I am seriously considering it. 

You could move somewhere that's not close to family, but somewhere saner. Honestly, that's what we did. 

I mean, our family IS closer to where we moved than to where we were before in Texas, but that wasn't the reason. 

[kbutton]

1 minute ago, Not_a_Number said:

You could move somewhere that's not close to family, but somewhere saner. Honestly, that's what we did. 

I mean, our family IS closer to where we moved than to where we were before in Texas, but that wasn't the reason. 

Yeah, but I feel like it's just a guess of where we'd like to be. Being away from family stinks big time. It's kind of scarred me, honestly. I didn't realize how hard it would be to connect with people here or what my DH's career was going to be like. No family plus ER hours has made it basically impossible to do activities with the kids (I can't be in two places at once), which is the primary way people make friends here. We don't do sports for this reason (plus physical limitations for one kiddo), and that is an additional mark against us. When we did find activities I could take both kids to at the same time, they were either too far away for us to make friends at, or the activity suddenly had something major shift that meant we could no longer participate.

We're seriously good at barking up all the wrong trees, but somehow those trees work for others, lol! I've even taken leadership positions to make them work, and poof, something about the activity makes it suddenly out of reach for us. We're excessively unlucky.

(PSA: If you're going to do ER work or be married to someone who is, live near family so someone can take your different aged kids to separate activities, make sure you don't also have difficult kids, difficult community, and difficulty making friends in the best of times, or you'll have even less margin.) 

[Corraleno]

15 minutes ago, mommyoffive said:

Entire Texas town essentially closes due to Covid-19 cases (msn.com)

Because totally closing the school and sending everyone home for at least two weeks, with no virtual or remote learning, is apparently so much better for children than wearing masks? The fact that liars and propagandists have managed to convince so many people that having an entire town shut down and people being airlifted to hospitals hours away to die alone = "freedom," but getting a safe, effective shot that would prevent this = "tyranny," is mind-boggling, maddening, and just really really sad.

 

[mommyoffive]

China Hits Zero Covid Cases With a Month of Draconian Curbs (msn.com)

[Not_a_Number]

12 minutes ago, kbutton said:

Yeah, but I feel like it's just a guess of where we'd like to be. Being away from family stinks big time. It's kind of scarred me, honestly. I didn't realize how hard it would be to connect with people here or what my DH's career was going to be like. No family plus ER hours has made it basically impossible to do activities with the kids (I can't be in two places at once), which is the primary way people make friends here. We don't do sports for this reason (plus physical limitations for one kiddo), and that is an additional mark against us. When we did find activities I could take both kids to at the same time, they were either too far away for us to make friends at, or the activity suddenly had something major shift that meant we could no longer participate.

We're seriously good at barking up all the wrong trees, but somehow those trees work for others, lol! I've even taken leadership positions to make them work, and poof, something about the activity makes it suddenly out of reach for us. We're excessively unlucky.

(PSA: If you're going to do ER work or be married to someone who is, live near family so someone can take your different aged kids to separate activities, make sure you don't also have difficult kids, difficult community, and difficulty making friends in the best of times, or you'll have even less margin.) 

Having heard a lot about your kids, I do think you'd fit in better where people are on average more academically oriented. 

[ktgrok]

1 hour ago, kbutton said:

 

On a local FB community page, someone asked about churches that mask, especially around unvaccinated kids, and while they got a couple of mainline suggestions, most of what they got was mockery. 

 

I just got an email that the church I found is doing Sunday School outside - calling it "Camp Sunday School" to make it fun, giving each kid their own camp chair and supplies, etc. I won't lie, I literally cried when I read the email. This is the first activity my kids will have done since Covid started. The ONLY one I've found that was actually being proactive about safety - outdoors, distanced in their own chairs, with their own supplies. so yeah, I cried. 

[Not_a_Number]

4 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

I just got an email that the church I found is doing Sunday School outside - calling it "Camp Sunday School" to make it fun, giving each kid their own camp chair and supplies, etc. I won't lie, I literally cried when I read the email. This is the first activity my kids will have done since Covid started. The ONLY one I've found that was actually being proactive about safety - outdoors, distanced in their own chairs, with their own supplies. so yeah, I cried. 

Aw, that sounds lovely. I wish our Hebrew School would do that. They are planning to go in-person, and I guess the people who don't want to do that can be the odd ducks by Zoom? I dunno. It's definitely much better than you all have described, but I still feel grumpy about it. 

[kbutton]

10 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

Having heard a lot about your kids, I do think you'd fit in better where people are on average more academically oriented. 

Oh, gosh, no. My kids fit recreationally into a gifted enrichment program (most of the time) that didn't have assignments, grades, etc., but those top out at age 14, and by the time the kids are that age, they've taken most of what they're interested in and just done. As long as we didn't talk about 2e stuff (except to share book recommendations in a parent seminar), and as long as actual school stuff didn't come up, my kids (mostly) blended in. But people did seem to want to like us and have something in common, lol! And I was involved on a volunteer level when I could be, which meant meeting some nice people for a time. 

It felt like imposter syndrome externalized, lol!!! It's really nice when people notice your kids even in a group of "certified" gifted kids, but it's a real conversation stopper when you can't hold a follow up conversation with them about First Lego League, DE, and geometry in 7th grade, etc. (other than nodding along and hoping they wouldn't ask where my kids were in any subject). Much like how I feel in any topic on the AL boards here. I just don't check them anymore. 

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, kbutton said:

Oh, gosh, no. My kids fit recreationally into a gifted enrichment program (most of the time) that didn't have assignments, grades, etc., but those top out at age 14, and by the time the kids are that age, they've taken most of what they're interested in and just done. As long as we didn't talk about 2e stuff (except to share book recommendations in a parent seminar), and as long as actual school stuff didn't come up, my kids (mostly) blended in. But people did seem to want to like us and have something in common, lol! And I was involved on a volunteer level when I could be, which meant meeting some nice people for a time. 

It felt like imposter syndrome externalized, lol!!! It's really nice when people notice your kids even in a group of "certified" gifted kids, but it's a real conversation stopper when you can't hold a follow up conversation with them about First Lego League, DE, and geometry in 7th grade, etc. (other than nodding along and hoping they wouldn't ask where my kids were in any subject). Much like how I feel in any topic on the AL boards here. I just don't check them anymore. 

I don't mean that you'd be in a school program. Just that there'd be more intense, odd-ish kids around. Do you think I'm off-base? 

[mommyoffive]

10 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

I just got an email that the church I found is doing Sunday School outside - calling it "Camp Sunday School" to make it fun, giving each kid their own camp chair and supplies, etc. I won't lie, I literally cried when I read the email. This is the first activity my kids will have done since Covid started. The ONLY one I've found that was actually being proactive about safety - outdoors, distanced in their own chairs, with their own supplies. so yeah, I cried. 

AWwww  Yay.   So glad you found that church.    I hope you can find more safe activities for them.   I think of you often during all these FL surges and how stressful and hard that is to go through.  Trying to keep it together for the kids, keep them safe, and also give them activities and experiences.  

[Faith-manor]

20 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

I just got an email that the church I found is doing Sunday School outside - calling it "Camp Sunday School" to make it fun, giving each kid their own camp chair and supplies, etc. I won't lie, I literally cried when I read the email. This is the first activity my kids will have done since Covid started. The ONLY one I've found that was actually being proactive about safety - outdoors, distanced in their own chairs, with their own supplies. so yeah, I cried. 

I cried when I read this! Bless them for caring about children enough to do the right thing, and spend the money to make it special!!!!!

[kbutton]

3 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

I don't mean that you'd be in a school program. Just that there'd be more intense, odd-ish kids around. Do you think I'm off-base? 

I honestly don't know. They fit in pretty well with gifted cousins that they don't see often, but that part of the family is largely socialized to be inclusive of various income levels and don't really see the lesser educated/not go-getter family members as not living up to their potential or uninteresting as people. We have smart blue collar workers and smart engineers and everything in between. 

[Not_a_Number]

22 minutes ago, kbutton said:

I honestly don't know. They fit in pretty well with gifted cousins that they don't see often, but that part of the family is largely socialized to be inclusive of various income levels and don't really see the lesser educated/not go-getter family members as not living up to their potential or uninteresting as people. We have smart blue collar workers and smart engineers and everything in between. 

I think you’d fit in where we are, if I had to guess.

[prairiewindmomma]

1 hour ago, Corraleno said:

Because totally closing the school and sending everyone home for at least two weeks, with no virtual or remote learning, is apparently so much better for children than wearing masks? The fact that liars and propagandists have managed to convince so many people that having an entire town shut down and people being airlifted to hospitals hours away to die alone = "freedom," but getting a safe, effective shot that would prevent this = "tyranny," is mind-boggling, maddening, and just really really sad.

 

Let me pop some context around Iraan, Texas. It's population is about 1200. The school district, which includes a different town, Sheffield, has <350 people. The nearest Walmart or anything is down I-10 in Fort Stockton. It's just a small place in the middle of open and relatively empty west Texas.

Texas law says that if you miss more than 10 days of school, you are considered truant.  Your absences with a doctor's note MAY be excused. I'm not saying that they shouldn't have a mask mandate. I'm saying that given the outbreak, limited access to healthcare, and staffing and truancy laws, it was smart of them to shut school down.

My relative is a Texas schoolteacher and her back to school photo with no mask, and no one in her class masked, has me irate. I think she's a blooming idiot, and selfish to boot. But I also know, as a former Texan, that a lot of decision making in that state is not made with the same value priority list that people in many other states have. 

[kbutton]

5 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

I think you’d fit in where we are, if I had to guess.

Aw, thanks! I'd need an entire tutorial for how to navigate a city (I have zero city skills), but I appreciate the vote of confidence. :-) 

[Matryoshka]

1 hour ago, mommyoffive said:

China Hits Zero Covid Cases With a Month of Draconian Curbs (msn.com)

Wasn't even that draconian; they must just be focused. I have a Chinese tutor who I meet with online weekly. She was in Nanjing just before this hit, went to Shanghai the next week to try to get a visa (she's studying abroad in the fall) and while there had a picnic in the park with friends, unmasked and singing no less (they took a cute video), though the visa attempt didn't work (bureaucracy) and she went back to Nanjing the next week for another attempt (so not exactly locked down anymore) where she needed a negative Covid test to get in to the government building (which she had), but all that seems hardly draconian...

[Amy Gen]

So, we are in California and are staying at home from here on out except for daily swim practice in an outdoor pool. 
 

Dh and middle daughter are in Texas selling our house there. Buyer has 3 elementary aged kids going to school in person. The whole family now has Covid one week into the school year. 
 

The dad was in our house on Friday. Dh and Dd were both wearing masks. The mom came by on Saturday when Dh was doing a repair outside. I don’t think he was masked because he didn’t know anyone was coming. 
 

My family members are staying with neighbors who are both elderly and immune compromised. I told them to pack up now, and go stay in the empty house. I’m so glad to be on the other side of the country right now! 

[Not_a_Number]

41 minutes ago, kbutton said:

Aw, thanks! I'd need an entire tutorial for how to navigate a city (I have zero city skills), but I appreciate the vote of confidence. 🙂

I just meant people-wise 🙂 . But yes, it’s its own thing!

Edited August 23, 2021 by Not_a_Number

[ktgrok]

1 hour ago, mommyoffive said:

AWwww  Yay.   So glad you found that church.    I hope you can find more safe activities for them.   I think of you often during all these FL surges and how stressful and hard that is to go through.  Trying to keep it together for the kids, keep them safe, and also give them activities and experiences.  

 

1 hour ago, Faith-manor said:

I cried when I read this! Bless them for caring about children enough to do the right thing, and spend the money to make it special!!!!!

Thank you both!