At what point would you lock down again?

[KSera]

3 hours ago, kbutton said:

In our former church, many people who were members as of the beginning of the pandemic (some of whom may have left like we did) are advocating for laws that strip the governor of power or disallow hospital systems and other businesses to require vaccines, etc. One person literally is asking people to fast and pray to get another of these laws passed. She's copied dozens of people from that church on her post to recruit them to fast and pray. 

 

I wonder if they've considered asking people to fast and pray for all the people currently hospitalized with Covid? When the concern is higher for not wanting to do anything to protect others than it is for the very health and lives of others, that's a very strange flavor of Christianity.

2 hours ago, Corraleno said:

The fact that liars and propagandists have managed to convince so many people that having an entire town shut down and people being airlifted to hospitals hours away to die alone = "freedom," but getting a safe, effective shot that would prevent this = "tyranny," is mind-boggling, maddening, and just really really sad.

QFT

[kbutton]

3 hours ago, Carolina Wren said:

I cannot fathom people not only not caring if they spread SARS-CoV-2, but looking to go so far as to remove protections from measles, polio, etc., as well. I... like.... you have a right to die, perhaps, but not to kill the rest of us.

A comment left today by another acquaintance in favor of the bill (who has huge influence locally), called a lack of choice to vaccinated or not "medical r@pe." But it's not medical r@pe to be exposed to diseases by people who ought to be willing to vaccinate and have no choice in the matter or way to know you might be exposed. 

[Faith-manor]

12 minutes ago, kbutton said:

A comment left today by another acquaintance in favor of the bill (who has huge influence locally), called a lack of choice to vaccinated or not "medical r@pe." But it's not medical r@pe to be exposed to diseases by people who ought to be willing to vaccinate and have no choice in the matter or way to know you might be exposed. 

Okay then. If that is the terminology that is going to be used, then let us turn that back around. Their choice makes them Bio Terrorists. 

[SoCal_Bear]

crossposted on the mammoth thread:

This new study from GA Tech & North Carolina State makes me 😲 and so glad I am homeschooling.

https://news.yahoo.com/new-study-paints-dire-picture-for-unmasked-unvaxxed-students-134456316.html

[Shoeless]

7 hours ago, Ordinary Shoes said:

I made 2 trips to Walgreens this weekend. On trip #1, I overheard two different people asked the pharmacist about Invermectin. I heard the pharmacy tech tell one of the guys that he could try the feed store. 😬

On the second trip, a woman was getting her 2nd COVID shot. 

 

Someone got an Ivermectin Rx filled at Walgreens today. They were also picking up doxy, pred, and albuterol for their friend/family member. It's the Covid starter pack. (Person was unmasked)

I was one of six people in line. Only one other guy was masked. The girl behind me kept creeping up near me, and then I heard her call someone to ask if she needed her insurance card for the covid test she was there to get. 

The two people ahead of me were yucking it up about how they got over Covid. One guy was firmly opposed to vaccinating. The other guy was there to get his first jab. 

My nerves are shot today. 

[Not_a_Number]

1 hour ago, calbear said:

crossposted on the mammoth thread:

This new study from GA Tech & North Carolina State makes me 😲 and so glad I am homeschooling.

https://news.yahoo.com/new-study-paints-dire-picture-for-unmasked-unvaxxed-students-134456316.html

I do expect schools to be a disaster this year 😕 . And so many people are sending their kids this time.... 

[ieta_cassiopeia]

On 8/21/2021 at 2:04 PM, ktgrok said:

The bit about Florida reachiing herd immunity is sort of good news I guess...the cost is to too high given that Orland may be out of drinking water by then and people are dying daily. Plus...how do you really ever have herd immunity in a place full of tourists and vacation home owners? 

The UK hasn't hit herd immunity despite 92% of the population having detectable antibodies, so I'm a bit sceptical of the research.

I think people need to stop being bored of being in a pandemic. COVID isn't bored of us.

[Faith-manor]

5 hours ago, Not_a_Number said:

I do expect schools to be a disaster this year 😕 . And so many people are sending their kids this time.... 

Agreed. I see nothing but tragedy for this next school year. Honestly, if parents could find a way to keep their kids home with Khan Academy, Magic School Bus, PBS, and  a lot of good books to read, their kids will likely learn a lot more than sending them to school and won't be risking their health. Our local district has had so many teachers retire and quit as well as parapros, bus drivers, and support staff that they really can't hold school, mostly all they can offer is a holding pen for the herd. Classroom square footage is too small for 55-60 kids per class, and even if they did that, kids aren't going to learn in such an egregious student to teacher ratio. It will be chaos. I really believe they will spend most of their days watching movies in the gym, and being pulled out in smaller groups for 10 minutes of math, 10 minutes of reading with the remaining faculty members. No online option is being offered from the district. Their tech people quit as well. They have no one to manage it logistically, and can't divert remaining teachers attention to it. It will be nothing more than a year of zero education, and sick, hospitalized, and potentially dying children spreading it to home and hearth. I weep for the children who will be subjected to this.

I am so grateful that our 5.5 year old grandson is being home schooled. I am grateful that we have an income good enough to help them so dd did not have to go back into the work force this year and enroll.him in school, and our toddler grandson in daycare. I cannot even describe how grateful I am!

[Faith-manor]

8 minutes ago, ieta_cassiopeia said:

The UK hasn't hit herd immunity despite 92% of the population having detectable antibodies, so I'm a bit sceptical of the research.

I think people need to stop being bored of being in a pandemic. COVID isn't bored of us.

This. And since covid is such a harsh attack on the immune system, some of these folks who get it are not going to form long term immunity. Sweden went for natural herd immunity and their experiment has been a frightening failure.

This is similar to being at war. Covid19 is the enemy, and right now that enemy is attacking on every border. We have to stay the course, stay strong, strike back. If only there was some way to convince the AWOL folks that they have to fight too!

[Not_a_Number]

45 minutes ago, ieta_cassiopeia said:

The UK hasn't hit herd immunity despite 92% of the population having detectable antibodies, so I'm a bit sceptical of the research.

I think people need to stop being bored of being in a pandemic. COVID isn't bored of us.

I’m really bored of being in a pandemic, lol. But who’s asking me?? That doesn’t make it end.

[Carrie12345]

6 hours ago, Not_a_Number said:

I do expect schools to be a disaster this year 😕 . And so many people are sending their kids this time.... 

Numbers by me have been holding surprisingly steady. Which isn’t exactly good, but I expected it to be worse.  
School starts next week though. And I don’t see a single thing about real precautions except for on busses, because that falls under public transportation.

[Not_a_Number]

2 minutes ago, Carrie12345 said:

Numbers by me have been holding surprisingly steady. Which isn’t exactly good, but I expected it to be worse.  
School starts next week though. And I don’t see a single thing about real precautions except for on busses, because that falls under public transportation.

Yeah, they’ve been steady here, too. But that’s before we stuff all the unvaccinated kids together indoors for 8 hours a day 🙄

Edited August 24, 2021 by Not_a_Number

[ktgrok]

Yeah - the school year changes everything - we now have ages 5-14 as our biggest segment of new cases. 20% of new cases fall. into the category. 

we are sacrificing our kids...for what? I don't even know. 

[Dmmetler]

1 hour ago, Faith-manor said:

Agreed. I see nothing but tragedy for this next school year. Honestly, if parents could find a way to keep their kids home with Khan Academy, Magic School Bus, PBS, and  a lot of good books to read, their kids will likely learn a lot more than sending them to school and won't be risking their health. Our local district has had so many teachers retire and quit as well as parapros, bus drivers, and support staff that they really can't hold school, mostly all they can offer is a holding pen for the herd. Classroom square footage is too small for 55-60 kids per class, and even if they did that, kids aren't going to learn in such an egregious student to teacher ratio. It will be chaos. I really believe they will spend most of their days watching movies in the gym, and being pulled out in smaller groups for 10 minutes of math, 10 minutes of reading with the remaining faculty members. No online option is being offered from the district. Their tech people quit as well. They have no one to manage it logistically, and can't divert remaining teachers attention to it. It will be nothing more than a year of zero education, and sick, hospitalized, and potentially dying children spreading it to home and hearth. I weep for the children who will be subjected to this.

I am so grateful that our 5.5 year old grandson is being home schooled. I am grateful that we have an income good enough to help them so dd did not have to go back into the work force this year and enroll.him in school, and our toddler grandson in daycare. I cannot even describe how grateful I am!

One of my friends is the cafeteria manager for a public high school. She has 5 unfilled spots on her team, and her school has 9 teaching spots unfilled and another 6 paraprofessional and classified spots unfilled. They had 11 staff out yesterday. She thinks the only way it would work is if the governor would allow them to do hybrid and alternating days, so they only have half the kids. And it still won't help much since it seems like entire departments are being taken out at the same time, so, for example, they had 8 math teachers out yesterday!

 

What's even worse-her district superintendent is bucking the governor and continuing to require masks. 

 

 

[Faith-manor]

42 minutes ago, Dmmetler said:

One of my friends is the cafeteria manager for a public high school. She has 5 unfilled spots on her team, and her school has 9 teaching spots unfilled and another 6 paraprofessional and classified spots unfilled. They had 11 staff out yesterday. She thinks the only way it would work is if the governor would allow them to do hybrid and alternating days, so they only have half the kids. And it still won't help much since it seems like entire departments are being taken out at the same time, so, for example, they had 8 math teachers out yesterday!

 

What's even worse-her district superintendent is bucking the governor and continuing to require masks. 

 

 

Yep. Where does it end? I know three high school seniors starting school today all in ap's and honors and no teachers for their classes. Out with covid or quit. I told their parents to pull them out of school, put them in DE online or in person at the community college who is taking this very seriously, and has masks, social distancing, and a high rate of faculty, staff, and students vaxed, then apply to college and trade school as home schooled students, get their transcripts from the school, add the D.E., and bypass the public school which will really only be public daycare for teens this year.

But they don't think they can do this or that their kids can manage. I said if your child cannot handle two DE community college classes each semester to finish out the year giving them 12 -16 college credits spread over two semesters, then they can't handle full time college or trade school next year. They are less than a year from voting, being fully legally responsible for themselves, and having to make tough decisions. Seems to me you have a major problem on your hands if they can't manage very part time community college gen eds, but think they will be ready for full time university in a year. But oh well, what do I know! LOL. Too many parents cannot think outside the box or want to bury their heads in the sand. I weep for every college. If they think the 2021 freshman class is under-prepared, they better seriously brace themselves for the 2022 class. I weep for the students who will fill these classes. It is not going to be pretty! These students brains will be mush from a year of doing nothing surrounded by chaos, and all because the supposed grown ups in leadership are evil, narcissistic bastards who did not give a crap about them!

Edited August 24, 2021 by Faith-manor

[mommyoffive]

Many U.S. At-Home COVID-19 Test Results Could Be Going Unreported (msn.com)

 

75 doctors from multiple South Florida hospitals staged a walkout to protest a surge in unvaccinated COVID-19 patients (msn.com)

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

19 hours ago, Not_a_Number said:

I don't mean that you'd be in a school program. Just that there'd be more intense, odd-ish kids around. Do you think I'm off-base? 

My intense, odd-ish kid hates hanging out with other intense, odd-ish kids.  He much prefers to blend in as much as he possibly can with “average” kids.

19 hours ago, kbutton said:

Oh, gosh, no. My kids fit recreationally into a gifted enrichment program (most of the time) that didn't have assignments, grades, etc., but those top out at age 14, and by the time the kids are that age, they've taken most of what they're interested in and just done. As long as we didn't talk about 2e stuff (except to share book recommendations in a parent seminar), and as long as actual school stuff didn't come up, my kids (mostly) blended in. But people did seem to want to like us and have something in common, lol! And I was involved on a volunteer level when I could be, which meant meeting some nice people for a time. 

It felt like imposter syndrome externalized, lol!!! It's really nice when people notice your kids even in a group of "certified" gifted kids, but it's a real conversation stopper when you can't hold a follow up conversation with them about First Lego League, DE, and geometry in 7th grade, etc. (other than nodding along and hoping they wouldn't ask where my kids were in any subject). Much like how I feel in any topic on the AL boards here. I just don't check them anymore. 

Frankly, I get it.  The only reason we’ve stayed where we live, which is horrible for me socially and career wise, is because we need to stay near family. My kids would never be able to do much of anything because the world is geared towards always having two parents available, and we usually don’t.

[Not_a_Number]

1 minute ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

My intense, odd-ish kid hates hanging out with other intense, odd-ish kids.  He much prefers to blend in as much as he possibly can with “average” kids.

Interesting. Definitely not the case for my kids, but obviously kids vary 🙂 . 

[Not_a_Number]

1 hour ago, Dmmetler said:

One of my friends is the cafeteria manager for a public high school. She has 5 unfilled spots on her team, and her school has 9 teaching spots unfilled and another 6 paraprofessional and classified spots unfilled. They had 11 staff out yesterday. She thinks the only way it would work is if the governor would allow them to do hybrid and alternating days, so they only have half the kids. And it still won't help much since it seems like entire departments are being taken out at the same time, so, for example, they had 8 math teachers out yesterday!

What's even worse-her district superintendent is bucking the governor and continuing to require masks. 

I have to say I don't blame them. If I were a teacher and I was forced to go into work and I had any kind of choice, I'd quit. 

[mommyoffive]

US outbreaks force early reversals on in-person learning (msn.com)

 

Record number of COVID-19 patients in Kentucky hospitals, governor says (msn.com)

[kbutton]

More on the Ohio bill: https://www.dispatch.com/story/news/2021/08/24/anti-vaccine-bill-hearing-ohio-house-pause/8182383002/

 

[prairiewindmomma]

2 hours ago, Faith-manor said:

 

But they don't think they can do this or that their kids can manage. I said if your child cannot handle two DE community college classes each semester to finish out the year giving them 12 -16 college credits spread over two semesters, then they can't handle full time college or trade school next year. They are less than a year from voting, being fully legally responsible for themselves, and having to make tough decisions. Seems to me you have a major problem on your hands if they can't manage very part time community college gen eds, but think they will be ready for full time university in a year. But oh well, what do I know! LOL. Too many parents cannot think outside the box or want to bury their heads in the sand. I weep for every college. 

I am a parent who is sending a kid to high school who has no good choices. The local cc is not requiring vaccines and suspended a lot of their trade school classes. I can send my kid to plague high school where he can do electronics and construction classes and he can graduate with an accredited diploma in a few years or I can withdraw him, (knowing he won’t be able to go back to public high school without retaking classes) and homeschool but then he will graduate with a non-accredited diploma which makes him harder to place for an apprenticeship under current state guidelines. He isn’t likely to get s college degree due to severe learning disabilities.

Sometimes all of the choices are bad ones. I don’t have my head in the sand nor am I stuck in a box. My kid and I are dealing with what life handed us and picking the least worse option given the totality of the circumstances. I suspect they are too.

[Faith-manor]

21 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

I am a parent who is sending a kid to high school who has no good choices. The local cc is not requiring vaccines and suspended a lot of their trade school classes. I can send my kid to plague high school where he can do electronics and construction classes and he can graduate with an accredited diploma in a few years or I can withdraw him, (knowing he won’t be able to go back to public high school without retaking classes) and homeschool but then he will graduate with a non-accredited diploma which makes him harder to place for an apprenticeship under current state guidelines. He isn’t likely to get s college degree due to severe learning disabilities.

Sometimes all of the choices are bad ones. I don’t have my head in the sand nor am I stuck in a box. My kid and I are dealing with what life handed us and picking the least worse option given the totality of the circumstances. I suspect they are too.

I get that! I know a lot of people are stuck. I should have added the caveat that I was venting about the situations foe these three seniors. They were former rocket team members so I am close and seeing this is hard. A local retired teacher hosted an "options besides School X who is acting like there is no pandemic out there and has no teaching staff so your kids a screwed" zoom meeting in which really great options WERE offered. Not only is the taking it seriously CC bending over backwards to help high school seniors, there were a LOT of offerings. One was pod schools. Get your kid vaccinated, guarantee they where masks, and they can come to school pods, and the dollar amount for this was insanely low, I mean just a give away. These are teachers who quit in protest and to protect their health but are passionate about teaching and still have their licenses so it is perfectly legal. I was asked to speak. And I had the horror of watching two of the three seniors breaking down, crying, begging mom and dad to not send them back to PS and try one of the options offers. The bottom line was I don't really know why the parents even bothered to log into the meeting. I think they wanted to whine about the PS, but not actually do anything.

It was a vent. I am sorry. I know a lot of people get stuck with nothing but crappy choices. So it really makes me angry when there are appropriate choices offered and they won't consider them, and then exponentially hurt because I care very much about these three kids. But, by law, I can tutor them only but not home school them because I let my teaching license lapse. I can only homeschool children for whom I am the parent or guardian. So I can't really help them, and that breaks my heart!

Again, my apologies.

[prairiewindmomma]

33 minutes ago, Faith-manor said:

I get that! I know a lot of people are stuck. I should have added the caveat that I was venting about the situations foe these three seniors. They were former rocket team members so I am close and seeing this is hard. A local retired teacher hosted an "options besides School X who is acting like there is no pandemic out there and has no teaching staff so your kids a screwed" zoom meeting in which really great options WERE offered. Not only is the taking it seriously CC bending over backwards to help high school seniors, there were a LOT of offerings. One was pod schools. Get your kid vaccinated, guarantee they where masks, and they can come to school pods, and the dollar amount for this was insanely low, I mean just a give away. These are teachers who quit in protest and to protect their health but are passionate about teaching and still have their licenses so it is perfectly legal. I was asked to speak. And I had the horror of watching two of the three seniors breaking down, crying, begging mom and dad to not send them back to PS and try one of the options offers. The bottom line was I don't really know why the parents even bothered to log into the meeting. I think they wanted to whine about the PS, but not actually do anything.

It was a vent. I am sorry. I know a lot of people get stuck with nothing but crappy choices. So it really makes me angry when there are appropriate choices offered and they won't consider them, and then exponentially hurt because I care very much about these three kids. But, by law, I can tutor them only but not home school them because I let my teaching license lapse. I can only homeschool children for whom I am the parent or guardian. So I can't really help them, and that breaks my heart!

Again, my apologies.

Thank you!

[mommyoffive]

Hawaii Gov. Ige Wants To Curtail Tourists As The Delta Variant Surges : NPR

[mommyoffive]

Wow, just looked at the Covidactnow map!   Other than 2 states in the midwest only the northeast isn't red now.  Back to being red, that is more stressful.  And schools haven't even started yet.  In my college town the kids are back in town. 

 

 

 

Around half the people at the store were masked.  A lot more than just a few months ago.

Edited August 25, 2021 by mommyoffive

[mommyoffive]

Mass. COVID Breakthrough Cases: 3,098 New Cases, 7 More Deaths – NBC Boston

 

How To Choose The Best Face Mask For Your Kids : Shots - Health News : NPR

 

Hawaii Gov. Ige Wants To Curtail Tourists As The Delta Variant Surges : NPR

[ktgrok]

Well, Orange County here in Florida finally got with it and declared a mask mandate for schools for the next 60 days. Why on earth they had to wait to see for themselves how badly this was going is beyond me. they should have done this before school started. Better late than never. 

[mommyoffive]

Vaccinated Parents Are Catching COVID As Schoolkids Bring The Virus Home : Shots - Health News : NPR

[Not_a_Number]

Man, the irony is killing me... this is THE YEAR that schools should be shut down. Not last year. Not March 2020. 

[Not_a_Number]

8 minutes ago, Ordinary Shoes said:

It's hard to know what would have happened if everything hadn't shut down in March of 2020. Would the first wave have been worse? Here in AZ, it seems like the shutdown (we were only shut down here from mid March through mid May 2020) was premature in hindsight. 

I don't think the shutdowns made all that much sense for any place but the Northeast, and they came too late there. 

We've never had any kind of coordinated strategy for any of this and it shows. 50 states deciding independently is just a hot mess. Most people locked down because it was some kind of screwed up domino effect. 

[mommyoffive]

U.S. data show rising 'breakthrough' infections among fully vaccinated (msn.com)

[mommyoffive]

'Keep your guard up': CDC studies show waning COVID vaccine efficacy as delta variant sweeps US (msn.com)

 

 

[Jean in Newcastle]

15 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

I don't think the shutdowns made all that much sense for any place but the Northeast, and they came too late there. 

We've never had any kind of coordinated strategy for any of this and it shows. 50 states deciding independently is just a hot mess. Most people locked down because it was some kind of screwed up domino effect. 

I think that in my area of my state, the lockdowns were effective.  But most people also were in compliance with masking (my estimate was at least 90% compliance in my county).  It was actually quite rare to see someone without a mask when there was a mandate.  Now that there is a mandate again, people have gone back to good compliance.  In addition, there is a good percentage of vaccinations in my county (77% with two jabs in my county and in my area of the county it's 93.3% with two jabs. )  Mitigation works. 

[Not_a_Number]

9 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

I think that in my area of my state, the lockdowns were effective.  But most people also were in compliance with masking (my estimate was at least 90% compliance in my county).  It was actually quite rare to see someone without a mask when there was a mandate.  Now that there is a mandate again, people have gone back to good compliance.  In addition, there is a good percentage of vaccinations in my county (77% with two jabs in my county and in my area of the county it's 93.3% with two jabs. )  Mitigation works. 

I just think the fact that there wasn't any coordination made lots of things costlier and less effective. I'm not against lockdowns AT ALL. Obviously, mitigation is a good idea in a pandemic. But it was all inept and chaotic. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

45 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

I just think the fact that there wasn't any coordination made lots of things costlier and less effective. I'm not against lockdowns AT ALL. Obviously, mitigation is a good idea in a pandemic. But it was all inept and chaotic. 

Not in my county,  it wasn’t. You can’t extrapolate from other areas with all sorts of differences to make such a sweeping generalization. 

[Not_a_Number]

7 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

Not in my county,  it wasn’t. You can’t extrapolate from other areas with all sorts of differences to make such a sweeping generalization. 

I am sure there were counties where it was effective. I'm not arguing with you about your county. 

[KSera]

2 hours ago, Not_a_Number said:

I don't think the shutdowns made all that much sense for any place but the Northeast, and they came too late there. 

 

I think it’s impossible to say. As epidemiologists said at the time (and have since), if they lock down in time to make the most difference, it will look like it was an over reaction in hindsight. That’s the nature of locking down fast enough. (Not that we had actual “lockdown” anywhere.) I see no reason it wouldn’t have spread like wild fire sooner, like it did when things opened back up. 

[ieta_cassiopeia]

9 hours ago, Not_a_Number said:

Man, the irony is killing me... this is THE YEAR that schools should be shut down. Not last year. Not March 2020. 

I think those shutdowns also needed to happen, and if there had been no shutdown in March 2020, I don't think any subsequent wave would have resulted in shutdown either, due to the anti-shutdown voices getting too entrenched the first wave (entrenchment across a year of COVID-19 is the main reason for no shutdown in the USA now).

I also assume your "chaotic" is referring to the national perspective of "lots of places doing different things compared to each other, instead of agreeing a single response and implementing it identically".

[Not_a_Number]

5 hours ago, KSera said:

I think it’s impossible to say. As epidemiologists said at the time (and have since), if they lock down in time to make the most difference, it will look like it was an over reaction in hindsight. That’s the nature of locking down fast enough. (Not that we had actual “lockdown” anywhere.) I see no reason it wouldn’t have spread like wild fire sooner, like it did when things opened back up. 

Yes, I think New Zealand does lock downs right 😛 . But it’s not at all clear to me whether our lock downs were worth it.

Edited August 25, 2021 by Not_a_Number

[Not_a_Number]

21 minutes ago, ieta_cassiopeia said:

I also assume your "chaotic" is referring to the national perspective of "lots of places doing different things compared to each other, instead of agreeing a single response and implementing it identically".

It’s not that it has to be a single response; it’s that a coordinated response would have been good. The US is a big country, and I don’t know that everyone shutting down in March of 2020 was precisely the right thing. For instance, there’s obviously a serious protective effect from summer weather, so did places with a warm summer need restrictions right as they were going into warmer weather? Unclear.

I think the response was seriously hampered by the lack of testing and coordination, that’s all. There obviously needed to be lock downs. I just don’t know if they were at the right places and times.

[Carrie12345]

The randomness ruined/ruins everything.  
I can’t remember now; how was Europe operating in the thick of the first wave? Were people allowed to country hop for relaxation/weekend escapes/time in a less restrictive country, comparable to a less restrictive state?
 

(My brain is so foggy on timelines that I thought my mechanic was screwing with me when he asked if I wanted my inspection done while he had my car. I could have sworn I did it less than 4 months ago.  I don’t remember the ‘when’ of almost anything since Jan/Feb of 2020.)

[Laura Corin]

31 minutes ago, Carrie12345 said:

The randomness ruined/ruins everything.  
I can’t remember now; how was Europe operating in the thick of the first wave? Were people allowed to country hop for relaxation/weekend escapes/time in a less restrictive country, comparable to a less restrictive state?
 

(My brain is so foggy on timelines that I thought my mechanic was screwing with me when he asked if I wanted my inspection done while he had my car. I could have sworn I did it less than 4 months ago.  I don’t remember the ‘when’ of almost anything since Jan/Feb of 2020.)

In Scotland, we were allowed to go out to exercise, to shop for essentials, to work if we couldn't work from home, to care for someone who was sick or disabled.  We weren't allowed to travel outwith these circumstances.  Now there was a big movement of people just before lockdown, so that everyone was in their preferred place, but then that was it.  Removals companies were only allowed to move people who were essential workers and were needed on new contracts elsewhere (NHS workers, etc).  Only essential shops were open.

[Loesje22000]

39 minutes ago, Carrie12345 said:

The randomness ruined/ruins everything.  
I can’t remember now; how was Europe operating in the thick of the first wave? Were people allowed to country hop for relaxation/weekend escapes/time in a less restrictive country, comparable to a less restrictive state?
 

(My brain is so foggy on timelines that I thought my mechanic was screwing with me when he asked if I wanted my inspection done while he had my car. I could have sworn I did it less than 4 months ago.  I don’t remember the ‘when’ of almost anything since Jan/Feb of 2020.)

In the first lockdown march 2020 we (Belgium) were not allowed to travel for recreational purposes. Borders were closed, everything recreational was closed except nature, and only supermarkets, drugstores and pet feed stores were open. 2nd home owners were not allowed to go to their second homes, schools and outdoors playgardens were closed. We were not allowed to sitdown or to picnic in public. Finally, to keep the people happy at home they opened garden centres and hardware stores. In the second lockdown they also kept bookstores, libraries and craftstores open. September 1st we will finally get out most of the second lockdown restrictions although masking will probably required until Easter 2022

[Not_a_Number]

I think Europe honestly had the same issues as the US -- lots of different countries with lots of mishmash restrictions. I think smaller countries with better border control had a really serious advantage here, as did places with more powerful governments, like China. (I wouldn't want to live in China and I wouldn't enjoy the limited liberties; this is simply a statement in the context of needing a large, coordinated response.) 

[73349]

OTOH if part of the US lockdowns had been shutting down flights out of the heavily impacted areas, the spread could have been delayed significantly. (E.g., DS and I caught it a week after my local health department didn't even try contract tracing or quarantining a planeload of people from Seattle when they knew one person was infected.)

[ktgrok]

8 hours ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

Not in my county,  it wasn’t. You can’t extrapolate from other areas with all sorts of differences to make such a sweeping generalization. 

I think that is the point - it was chaotic because one county might do great, the one next door had different rules, and people freely traveled from one to another. 

1 hour ago, Not_a_Number said:

Yes, I think New Zealand does lock downs right 😛 . But it’s not at all clear to me whether our lock downs were worth it.

Well, I mean, they certainly prevented cases and deaths. But going back to no mitigation now sort of makes you wonder why bother if we are just going to let people suffer and die anyway. The difference is, now at least some are vaccinated and protected. 

[Not_a_Number]

4 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

Well, I mean, they certainly prevented cases and deaths. But going back to no mitigation now sort of makes you wonder why bother if we are just going to let people suffer and die anyway. The difference is, now at least some are vaccinated and protected. 

I do kind of feel like that 😕. It's dispiriting. I know hindsight is 20/20, but it seems like this was all epically screwed up and is still being epically screwed up.

At least we now have the vaccines for those willing to take them. 

[Not_a_Number]

37 minutes ago, Carolina Wren said:

OTOH if part of the US lockdowns had been shutting down flights out of the heavily impacted areas, the spread could have been delayed significantly. (E.g., DS and I caught it a week after my local health department didn't even try contract tracing or quarantining a planeload of people from Seattle when they knew one person was infected.)

Or if we did reasonable contact tracing. Or we'd started doing surveillance testing back in December/January, like we ABSOLUTELY should have. 

I can think of so many things we should have done which we didn't do. 

[Carrie12345]

23 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

I do kind of feel like that 😕. It's dispiriting. I know hindsight is 20/20, but it seems like this was all epically screwed up and is still being epically screwed up.

At least we now have the vaccines for those willing to take them. 

This is a huge thing for me.  
I worked so hard and gave up so much to keep my kids from getting sick. Big luck was involved, too, considering Dh had it. 
Im going to be SO angry if my <12 gets Delta before he’s vaccinated.