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At what point would you lock down again?


Not_a_Number

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The "not dangerous to children" press typically focuses only on the odds of hospitalization and death and leaves out entirely the risks of Long Covid--a potentially lifelong illness if LC is (as many experts suspect) the same as ME/CFS.

Bill

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Faith-manor said:

Have we just decided that if you are sick with anything else, if your body is not "perfect", you are expendable? Sick kids? Let them die.

 

Yes, large portions of America have decided that.  

When our family was locked down tight to protect a medically fragile kid, people online expressed that they didn't think that their kid should give up things to protect a child who was "going to die anyway".  Someone on this board, told me that I was a bad Christian, because if I was a good Christian I wouldn't be afraid of my 10 year old going to Heaven.  

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8 minutes ago, Spy Car said:

The "not dangerous to children" press typically focuses only on the odds of hospitalization and death and leaves out entirely the risks of Long Covid--a potentially lifelong illness if LC is (as many experts suspect) it is the same as ME/CFS.

Bill

It also ignores the fact that losing a parent, or primary caregiver, or a home because a parent has long term illness and can't work, is also dangerous to a child.  

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44 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

Yeah, it's similar in NYC. There are TONS of tests -- pharmacies, urgent cares, everywhere. 

I would have said that here, as well. But when cases ramped up, it wasn't enough. PHarmacies are doing appointments for tests all day, every day. But there are not enough. 

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30 minutes ago, Spy Car said:

The "not dangerous to children" press typically focuses only on the odds of hospitalization and death and leaves out entirely the risks of Long Covid--a potentially lifelong illness if LC is (as many experts suspect) it is the same as ME/CFS.

Bill

I wish I understood those risks better. I still don't have a great sense of how likely it is 😕 . 

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2 hours ago, regentrude said:

ours has dropped down to 38% from 49%.

I can imagine a 1% positivity rate only if there are huge numbers of asymptomatic people testing routinely and frequently.

Or people with colds, allergies, etc.  

Way back in March 2020 the public health and epidemiology people were saying that if positivity is over 5% you’re not testing enough.  
 

I suspect areas with low positivity are both testing a lot more people and taking other mitigation measures more seriously. They seem to go together.

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11 minutes ago, BaseballandHockey said:

It also ignores the fact that losing a parent, or primary caregiver, or a home because a parent has long term illness and can't work, is also dangerous to a child.  

There have been some absolutely heart-breaking stories about this in the news recently.

The antivax politician in Texas who left behind a wife with continuing covid symptoms and an 8 month old baby who will have no memory of him. https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/texas-councilman-who-spurned-vaccines-masks-dies-after-covid-19-n1276219

The parents in Georgia who died within hours of each other, orphaning their two teens. https://fox17.com/news/local/georgia-parents-die-from-covid-19-within-hours-of-each-other

The antivax activist who founded a "Freedom Defenders" group demanding an end to all covid restrictions, who tried to self-treat with ivermectin and vitamins when he got sick, whose pregnant wife has been frantically trying to get him transferred to a hospital with an ECMO machine but the waiting lists are so long that he's already been taken off the one list he was on because he's been unconscious on a ventilator for almost three weeks and they think his chances of survival are too low. He has 3 kids, ages 5, 3, and 1, and he'll likely be dead before the 4th is born. HIs wife will be a single parent of 4 kids under 5, including a newborn, with no job. https://www.gosanangelo.com/story/news/2021/08/22/texas-covid-delta-variant-hospitalizations-high-mom-fights-save-husband/8196516002/

The mom in Missouri with two boys, 10 & 4, whose anti-vax husband died, leaving her with medical bills and a mortgage she couldn't pay, so she had to sell their home and move into a crummy apartment in a not-great area an hour from everything and everyone the boys have ever known. The 10 year old is furious with her for selling the house and making him leave his school and all his friends, even though she had no choice. https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2021/08/09/widow-covid-missouri-home-loss/

Each of those parents just "counts" as one adult death, but the statistics don't begin to show the emotional and financial devastation caused by those deaths. One stupid choice, based on lies and misinformation, has forever changed the trajectory of their children's lives.

 

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11 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

There have been some absolutely heart-breaking stories about this in the news recently.

The antivax politician in Texas who left behind a wife with continuing covid symptoms and an 8 month old baby who will have no memory of him. https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/texas-councilman-who-spurned-vaccines-masks-dies-after-covid-19-n1276219

The parents in Georgia who died within hours of each other, orphaning their two teens. https://fox17.com/news/local/georgia-parents-die-from-covid-19-within-hours-of-each-other

The antivax activist who founded a "Freedom Defenders" group demanding an end to all covid restrictions, who tried to self-treat with ivermectin and vitamins when he got sick, whose pregnant wife has been frantically trying to get him transferred to a hospital with an ECMO machine but the waiting lists are so long that he's already been taken off the one list he was on because he's been unconscious on a ventilator for almost three weeks and they think his chances of survival are too low. He has 3 kids, ages 5, 3, and 1, and he'll likely be dead before the 4th is born. HIs wife will be a single parent of 4 kids under 5, including a newborn, with no job. https://www.gosanangelo.com/story/news/2021/08/22/texas-covid-delta-variant-hospitalizations-high-mom-fights-save-husband/8196516002/

The mom in Missouri with two boys, 10 & 4, whose anti-vax husband died, leaving her with medical bills and a mortgage she couldn't pay, so she had to sell their home and move into a crummy apartment in a not-great area an hour from everything and everyone the boys have ever known. The 10 year old is furious with her for selling the house and making him leave his school and all his friends, even though she had no choice. https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2021/08/09/widow-covid-missouri-home-loss/

Each of those parents just "counts" as one adult death, but the statistics don't begin to show the emotional and financial devastation caused by those deaths. One stupid choice, based on lies and misinformation, has forever changed the trajectory of their children's lives.

 

I have been reading heartbreaking stories everyday about this.  And sadly the ones you posted are not even the ones I have read.  And to know that there are thousands and thousands of those stories that you won't even ever know.  

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Funny/not funny. We’re basically on real lockdown while dd is sick with whatever she’s sick with, minus my trip to CVS.

I forgot the dog has a mobile groomer visit scheduled for tomorrow, and got a text to confirm.  OF COURSE I wanted to give her the opportunity to reschedule, even though dd is isolated and the grooming is in a van, not my house. So she chose to cancel, which I am 100% supportive of, especially as she said her household is high risk. Makes total sense.

But her family also just returned from a vacation to a tropical island. So... okay, then!

I do not understand the world, lol/not really.

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19 minutes ago, mommyoffive said:

I have been reading heartbreaking stories everyday about this.  And sadly the ones you posted are not even the ones I have read.  And to know that there are thousands and thousands of those stories that you won't even ever know.  

I just saw the video about the 24 year old in Louisiana whose baby was delivered early by emergency C-section before she was intubated, whose doctor literally cried on camera because he doesn't know if she's going to make it. Her entire extended unvaxxed/unmasked family went on a big vacation because, as her mother said, "We thought, like the rest of the world, this isn't that real of a virus, it didn't attack our family.” Now she's unconscious on a ventilator fighting for her life, and if she doesn't make it she will leave behind a newborn and a toddler. And the family are so so shocked that the no-big-deal virus that has killed millions of people worldwide actually affected them. Who could have possibly predicted that???
 

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1 hour ago, Not_a_Number said:

I wish I understood those risks better. I still don't have a great sense of how likely it is 😕 . 

I'm not sure anyone does with precision.

Part the the problem is conflating illness that persists for weeks or months but then resolves with persistent illness that may prove to be lifelong w/o a cure or treatment protocol that is non existent now under the term Long Covid.

We will find out better only as time goes by. There are a significant number cases that specialists see as being indistinguishable from ME/CFS. Those people are likely facing a very rocky road ahead. 

Bill

  

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54 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

There have been some absolutely heart-breaking stories about this in the news recently.

The antivax politician in Texas who left behind a wife with continuing covid symptoms and an 8 month old baby who will have no memory of him. https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/texas-councilman-who-spurned-vaccines-masks-dies-after-covid-19-n1276219

The parents in Georgia who died within hours of each other, orphaning their two teens. https://fox17.com/news/local/georgia-parents-die-from-covid-19-within-hours-of-each-other

The antivax activist who founded a "Freedom Defenders" group demanding an end to all covid restrictions, who tried to self-treat with ivermectin and vitamins when he got sick, whose pregnant wife has been frantically trying to get him transferred to a hospital with an ECMO machine but the waiting lists are so long that he's already been taken off the one list he was on because he's been unconscious on a ventilator for almost three weeks and they think his chances of survival are too low. He has 3 kids, ages 5, 3, and 1, and he'll likely be dead before the 4th is born. HIs wife will be a single parent of 4 kids under 5, including a newborn, with no job. https://www.gosanangelo.com/story/news/2021/08/22/texas-covid-delta-variant-hospitalizations-high-mom-fights-save-husband/8196516002/

The mom in Missouri with two boys, 10 & 4, whose anti-vax husband died, leaving her with medical bills and a mortgage she couldn't pay, so she had to sell their home and move into a crummy apartment in a not-great area an hour from everything and everyone the boys have ever known. The 10 year old is furious with her for selling the house and making him leave his school and all his friends, even though she had no choice. https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2021/08/09/widow-covid-missouri-home-loss/

Each of those parents just "counts" as one adult death, but the statistics don't begin to show the emotional and financial devastation caused by those deaths. One stupid choice, based on lies and misinformation, has forever changed the trajectory of their children's lives.

 


Fake news. 

Well, the good news is that this virus is just gonna go away— sometime soon.

Oh wait. Ok, it’s real but at least it’s not serious.

Oh, ok some people might die but they are just old anyway. They *want* to die— for the stock market.

Hmm, we’ll it’s true we have a vaccine now but it’s not FDA approved. Farm animal dewormer sounds safer so let’s just take that instead.

Oh crap, the vaccine has been approved. Well, the process was simultaneously too fast and too long, so let’s stick with deworming medicine from the feed store.

Eh, kids don’t get it anyway. Just take zinc and go to the chiropractor.

Well ok, a few kids are getting sick but they are overweight so it doesn’t matter.

Well, maybe not all of them. But *I* am not in the hospital, so screw them. It’s just kids.

Who wants to guess where the goalposts will end up next?

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1 hour ago, ktgrok said:

I would have said that here, as well. But when cases ramped up, it wasn't enough. PHarmacies are doing appointments for tests all day, every day. But there are not enough. 

I think that pharmacies running out is an issue, but I also think there are big differences in how much surveillance testing is going on.  We have a lot of surveillance testing here.  Our biggest employers have it for people working in person.  Many of our schools have it.  If you look at that COVSIM study, surveillance testing can make a huge difference in the spread of the virus in schools.  

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https://www.wvgazettemail.com/news/kanawha_valley/she-was-my-little-piece-of-heaven-15-year-old-st-albans-high-sophomore-dies/article_5e937f94-7956-5dcc-ad23-e1a6c7e4a7e7.html?fbclid=IwAR0jDjfdHb0iC30FVTE5lI09N6LoK-ubcbmtRJ7jtz9cCllkdiObP5mLK4Q#utm_campaign=blox&utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social

Apparently, I viewed this more than once, and now I can't read it because I'm out of freebies, but IIRC, this young lady dropped dead of a heart attack. The working theory is that because she had Covid antibodies but never got sick that she had asymptomatic Covid that affected her heart. I hope I heard a follow up--teens who drop dead of heart attacks are always tragic, but I think it's important for us all to have better data on how often Covid is affecting kids this way and what the actual risk is for asymptomatic infections. 

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The stories are heartbreaking. We had a recent story about a local woman who died ten days after giving birth. She was 30. Not vaccinated, because pregnant, but her DH was. The announcement that pregnant women should get vaccinated came too late for her. She held her baby twice before going on a vent. So, so heartbreaking. (Not posting the news article as it’s very specific about where I live.)

One local middle school has closed for two weeks due to an outbreak. 

Local teen friend at the high school overheard a conversation in the office today. A mom was mad that she had to come pick up her two kids because she had sent her middle schooler to school sick (and got caught). Ugh.

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18 minutes ago, Spy Car said:

I'm not sure anyone does with precision.

Part the the problem is conflating illness that persists for weeks or months but then resolves with persistent illness that may prove to be lifelong w/o a cure or treatment protocol that is non existent now under the term Long Covid.

We will find out better only as time goes by. There are a significant number cases that specialists see as being indistinguishable from ME/CFS. Those people are likely facing a very rocky road ahead. 

Bill

Yes, I don't think anyone knows. That's why I don't know 😛 . If someone knew, I'd probably have read about it. 

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13 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

Yes, I don't think anyone knows. That's why I don't know 😛 . If someone knew, I'd probably have read about it. 

What does seem to be emerging is that the ME/CFS type of Long Covid is manifesting in adults and children who did not objectively appear to be that sick. They just don't improve. Might never improve.

Bill

 

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1 hour ago, Corraleno said:

I just saw the video about the 24 year old in Louisiana whose baby was delivered early by emergency C-section before she was intubated, whose doctor literally cried on camera because he doesn't know if she's going to make it. Her entire extended unvaxxed/unmasked family went on a big vacation because, as her mother said, "We thought, like the rest of the world, this isn't that real of a virus, it didn't attack our family.” Now she's unconscious on a ventilator fighting for her life, and if she doesn't make it she will leave behind a newborn and a toddler. And the family are so so shocked that the no-big-deal virus that has killed millions of people worldwide actually affected them. Who could have possibly predicted that???
 

How many of us have to touch the stove before we believe that it's hot? 😓

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Can I get people's opinions on a few choices for my 14 year old?  Keep in mind that we live with a 90 year old, and while he's vaccinated we're still pretty protective of him.  

14 year old will be in school, but we're still figuring out what activities to do.  Here are the things on the table.  We aren't doing N95's for school, but we could do them for all of these.  He's been fit tested, so we know they fit!

1) School play (his school requires the vaccine for 12 +, and has a mask mandate, but this would be singing and dancing indoors.

2) Jazz Band -- he'd play stringed instrument (we're keeping virtual lessons for his brass instrument), and could wear a mask, but others would be playing wind and brass, including possibly some unvaccinated 6th graders.

3) Boy Scouts -- indoor meetings, large space, maybe 30 kids with no overlap with his school (e.g. not kids he's already exposed to).   He could distance within it and wear a mask.  Also camping, with single tents, and other outdoor things.  We could have someone drive him and meet them there.

4) Riding in a car with his uncle for triathlon training and golf.  He likes to train with his uncle, 1:1, but logistically it works better if his uncle picks up.  They could use a   They'd swim/bike/ride/golf outside, so it's only the car that I worry about.  Uncle is locked down tighter than we are, but sees his very elderly parents in person, so the concern would be transmission from my son, not to my son.  

I had initially said "no cars with other people, nothing indoors except school with 100% masks"  but these are the things I'm reconsidering.

We're in an area with high vaccination rates and lower covid rates, but they're climbing like everywhere.  

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Wasn't sure which thread for this, but a friend who works in a Covid unit said the capacity issues they're seeing now are very different than earlier in the pandemic. The younger patients they see now are more likely to survive, but often after weeks of ICU care. When they were seeing lots of patients in their 80s and 90s hospital stays tended to be shorter because more people were dying 🙁 

But her main point was that current capacity issues at present are very much related to lengthy hospital stays with ICU beds not turning over. 

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20 hours ago, SeaConquest said:

These women aren't going to make it. These babies are never going to know their mothers. The anti-vax movement, and the politicians who weaponized the vaccine for their own political purposes, have so much blood on their hands.

 

This is how I’m feeling about every person who tries to convince people to be scared of being vaccinated. So much suffering to answer for. 

2 hours ago, mommyoffive said:

I see in the article that there was a HEPA air purifier running at the front of the classroom. It made me wonder if it was blowing air from behind the teacher toward the students, increasing the number of them exposed. I think schools need to think carefully about what direction these things should be pointed.

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24 minutes ago, KSera said:

This is how I’m feeling about every person who tries to convince people to be scared of being vaccinated. So much suffering to answer for. 

I see in the article that there was a HEPA air purifier running at the front of the classroom. It made me wonder if it was blowing air from behind the teacher toward the students, increasing the number of them exposed. I think schools need to think carefully about what direction these things should be pointed.

Here is some more information on that class

 
 
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1 hour ago, Acadie said:

Wasn't sure which thread for this, but a friend who works in a Covid unit said the capacity issues they're seeing now are very different than earlier in the pandemic. The younger patients they see now are more likely to survive, but often after weeks of ICU care. When they were seeing lots of patients in their 80s and 90s hospital stays tended to be shorter because more people were dying 🙁 

But her main point was that current capacity issues at present are very much related to lengthy hospital stays with ICU beds not turning over. 

Yes.  Months of ICU care.

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1 hour ago, BaseballandHockey said:

Can I get people's opinions on a few choices for my 14 year old?  Keep in mind that we live with a 90 year old, and while he's vaccinated we're still pretty protective of him.  

14 year old will be in school, but we're still figuring out what activities to do.  Here are the things on the table.  We aren't doing N95's for school, but we could do them for all of these.  He's been fit tested, so we know they fit!

1) School play (his school requires the vaccine for 12 +, and has a mask mandate, but this would be singing and dancing indoors.

2) Jazz Band -- he'd play stringed instrument (we're keeping virtual lessons for his brass instrument), and could wear a mask, but others would be playing wind and brass, including possibly some unvaccinated 6th graders.

3) Boy Scouts -- indoor meetings, large space, maybe 30 kids with no overlap with his school (e.g. not kids he's already exposed to).   He could distance within it and wear a mask.  Also camping, with single tents, and other outdoor things.  We could have someone drive him and meet them there.

4) Riding in a car with his uncle for triathlon training and golf.  He likes to train with his uncle, 1:1, but logistically it works better if his uncle picks up.  They could use a   They'd swim/bike/ride/golf outside, so it's only the car that I worry about.  Uncle is locked down tighter than we are, but sees his very elderly parents in person, so the concern would be transmission from my son, not to my son.  

I had initially said "no cars with other people, nothing indoors except school with 100% masks"  but these are the things I'm reconsidering.

We're in an area with high vaccination rates and lower covid rates, but they're climbing like everywhere.  

Triathlon training absolutely yes.

Maybe scouts.  It would depend on how reliable the group is with masks and precautions.

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Sigh.  I do a mix of alternative and allopathic healthcare.  The alternative healthcare is helpful to me because it can offer practical lifestyle help for my autoimmune / chronic pain issues.  But. . . they have lost their everloving minds regarding Covid.  I just got an email telling me to do coffee enemas in order to combat the effects of "nanoparticles" in the Covid vaccine.  At least they are assuming that their followers are getting vaccinated?? 

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9 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

 I just got an email telling me to do coffee enemas in order to combat the effects of "nanoparticles" in the Covid vaccine.  

At least they'll have very awake and alert colons.  I'd rather ingest my coffee orally and use my digestive tract as a one-way street. People are nuts.

ETA: Does any coffee work? Cold brew? French press? Preferred roast? I am sure that must make a difference with the nanoparticles.

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1 hour ago, BaseballandHockey said:

Can I get people's opinions on a few choices for my 14 year old?  Keep in mind that we live with a 90 year old, and while he's vaccinated we're still pretty protective of him.  

14 year old will be in school, but we're still figuring out what activities to do.  Here are the things on the table.  We aren't doing N95's for school, but we could do them for all of these.  He's been fit tested, so we know they fit!

1) School play (his school requires the vaccine for 12 +, and has a mask mandate, but this would be singing and dancing indoors.

2) Jazz Band -- he'd play stringed instrument (we're keeping virtual lessons for his brass instrument), and could wear a mask, but others would be playing wind and brass, including possibly some unvaccinated 6th graders.

3) Boy Scouts -- indoor meetings, large space, maybe 30 kids with no overlap with his school (e.g. not kids he's already exposed to).   He could distance within it and wear a mask.  Also camping, with single tents, and other outdoor things.  We could have someone drive him and meet them there.

4) Riding in a car with his uncle for triathlon training and golf.  He likes to train with his uncle, 1:1, but logistically it works better if his uncle picks up.  They could use a   They'd swim/bike/ride/golf outside, so it's only the car that I worry about.  Uncle is locked down tighter than we are, but sees his very elderly parents in person, so the concern would be transmission from my son, not to my son.  

I had initially said "no cars with other people, nothing indoors except school with 100% masks"  but these are the things I'm reconsidering.

We're in an area with high vaccination rates and lower covid rates, but they're climbing like everywhere.  

Can they handle open windows in the car?

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16 minutes ago, regentrude said:

At least they'll have very awake and alert colons.  I'd rather ingest my coffee orally and use my digestive tract as a one-way street. People are nuts.

ETA: Does any coffee work? Cold brew? French press? Preferred roast? I am sure that must make a difference with the nanoparticles.

Any coffee will do but it must be steaming hot. 

 

(snark, just in case....)

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1 hour ago, chiguirre said:

This is the most heart breaking story I've read this week, and I've read a lot of them.

 

Reading this above followed by this below...

1 hour ago, mommyoffive said:

Which states that "Other than two teachers, one of whom was the index patient, all school staff members were vaccinated" and that "This teacher reported attending social events during May 13–16" makes me furious. It's this kind of behavior that means the Daniel Wilkinson died of a very treatable disease for lack of a bed, because they were all filled by people like this teacher who chose not to get vaccinated, but then continued right on attending social events. Furious. I don't want to hear one thing about this being their choice. The height of selfishness to cause other people to die because you don't want to alter your life at all in the midst of a pandemic.

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The town I grew up in had a meeting about masks in schools, and the board voted that they will be mandated when the spread reaches a certain level. Sadly, some people showed a complete disregard for what consequences could be if they didn't mask. 

" 'What if we run out of beds at [local hospital]? Will that keep you up at night?' [Name] asked?

Several audience members were heard to respond 'No.' ”

Lovely. 

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My hospital system has reached capacity in the morgue, brought in coolers, and now those are filling up too. But Governor says it is fine, getting better, we just have to live with it. 

Well, we got overflowing morgues with people that didn't manage to live with it!

the email from AdventHealth says the hospital system has begun using rented, refrigerated coolers at 10 campuses in Orange, Osceola, Polk, Seminole and Volusia counties, adding those coolers are also becoming filled.

https://www.wesh.com/article/adventhealth-morgues-capacity-florida/37409543#

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5 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

My hospital system has reached capacity in the morgue, brought in coolers, and now those are filling up too. But Governor says it is fine, getting better, we just have to live with it. 

Well, we got overflowing morgues with people that didn't manage to live with it!

the email from AdventHealth says the hospital system has begun using rented, refrigerated coolers at 10 campuses in Orange, Osceola, Polk, Seminole and Volusia counties, adding those coolers are also becoming filled.

https://www.wesh.com/article/adventhealth-morgues-capacity-florida/37409543#

"You should live with it! Unless you died from it! Then sucks to be you!" 

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6 hours ago, mommyoffive said:

Florida doctor removed after offering parents $50 mask opt-out letters (msn.com)

Isn't it ironic that this makes the headlines, but I have yet to see a legit headline demonstrating that doctors are adding Covid to death certificates to make more $$$ for hospitals, lol? It's like maybe doctors aren't actually making Covid deaths up.

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4 hours ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

Sigh.  I do a mix of alternative and allopathic healthcare.  The alternative healthcare is helpful to me because it can offer practical lifestyle help for my autoimmune / chronic pain issues.  But. . . they have lost their everloving minds regarding Covid.  I just got an email telling me to do coffee enemas in order to combat the effects of "nanoparticles" in the Covid vaccine.  At least they are assuming that their followers are getting vaccinated?? 

Jean this cracks me up. It reminds me of a patient I had as a young nurse. The doctor approved coffee enemas at the patients request.  After the first one,he wanted another but there was only so much coffee and the night shift was coming on. He got instant decaf. I never knew if he needed caffeine or not but I knew the night shift did. 

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https://www.fox19.com/2021/08/24/workers-sue-tri-state-hospitals-over-covid-19-vaccine-requirement/?fbclid=IwAR3X5-rZOgYNR_UMcFpGAuS6_si5s405Fcbp9dcb_jI7pPAc97yzQxpRpaE

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More than 27 employees so far from St. Elizabeth Healthcare agreed to be plaintiffs with over 100 at each health care system agreeing to join the legal fight against UC Health, Cincinnati Children’s, Christ, TriHealth, Mercy and St. Elizabeth.

The workers want courts in both Hamilton and Boone counties to declare the policy violates their rights “to protect their bodily integrity and to refuse unnecessary medical treatment,” the lawsuits show.

The employees are front-line nurses, nursing supervisors, floor managers, health care technicians and even security guards.

...

The suit alleges the workers’ rights were violated and accuses the hospital groups of “criminal coercion,” fraud, tortious interference, criminal and civil conspiracy and more.

It also accuses them of “engaging in a pattern of corrupt activity” by intentionally reporting “falsified data regarding COVID-19, including number of patients, deaths of patients, adverse effects of vaccines and other medical treatments and did so with the intent to deceive the public and to maintain a federal revenue stream from the United States and Ohio governments and its agencies. False reporting includes under reporting, minimizing and mischaracterizing data.”

I am confused...is the government maintaining a revenue stream by overcounting or undercounting Covid deaths? These people are nuts.

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Well, I guess you could say we “hit our threshold”. We’re in Texas & the surge is insane. All the public schools have resumed, entirely unmasked. Hospitals - including the local children’s hospital - are filling quickly. 

We told DS today that we’re taking a break from playing with his friends on the street. It’s hot out, so they’ve been “building forts” lately for shade & crawling inside, cramming together. Or asking to play indoors. It’s just too risky now. 

Our exposure risk is already high, because DH travels for a living. His job cannot be done virtually / from home, so DS & I have to do what we can. DS will continue sports, but that’s it. No dining out. No unnecessary stores. Masks indoors always. We’ll be missing a cousin’s wedding & BIL/SIL’s baby shower. Talking about sewing a mask into his Halloween costume. 

I’m thankful  we got to enjoy a short reprieve, because here we go again… 😔

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6 hours ago, kbutton said:

https://www.fox19.com/2021/08/24/workers-sue-tri-state-hospitals-over-covid-19-vaccine-requirement/?fbclid=IwAR3X5-rZOgYNR_UMcFpGAuS6_si5s405Fcbp9dcb_jI7pPAc97yzQxpRpaE

I am confused...is the government maintaining a revenue stream by overcounting or undercounting Covid deaths? These people are nuts.

Yes.

If we’ve learned anything it’s that to a certain segment of the population two opposite things can be true, depending only on the argument they are trying to win. Understanding irony takes a self awareness that doesn’t appear to be present, or at best is a trait they choose to not utilise. Pointing it out, of course, leads only into either digging in to the simultaneous opposing beliefs, transparent attempts to gaslight, or simply ignoring the reality altogether.

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It took more than 3 weeks to double our 7-day average, but here we are. And local schools start Monday.

Dh is NOT supposed to travel this hurricane season, but I’m not convinced he’s going to avoid needing to head out for Ida clean up. It’s just going to be too major to handle completely from home.  
He didn’t get his Covid from traveling last year, but so many people involved in restoration DID.

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22 hours ago, Faith-manor said:

It should also be pointed out that while covid may still be deemed not very dangerous to kids, we still have an issue of pediatric beds. We are bizarrely low as a nation in pediatric practitioners of every stripe not to mention ped beds and PICU beds. So even if everyone is comfortable with their kids' risk, the issue is we are overwhelming that part of the system so other sick children such as children with cancer are dying because there is no bed for them, the ER cannot see them. These deaths will be listed as cancer or sickle cell or anaphylaxis or whatever but they are directly covid caused because covid is overwhelming the system. Does no one care about this? Have we just decided that if you are sick with anything else, if your body is not "perfect", you are expendable? Sick kids? Let them die.

I think that people who are sick for reasons other than COVID get forgotten when the argument is about COVID itself, because COVID and its many associations take up so much headspace. One effective method of countering that tendency is to discuss the extra patients' effect on waiting lists in general (which, because it doesn't directly invoke COVID but just "extra hospital load" that could be from any cause, takes out the bunch of associations that leads to the forgetting). In England, the argument of "We already have 5 million people waiting for hospital treatment, let's try to do stuff to not make it longer," seems to have had some positive effect.

19 hours ago, Danae said:

Or people with colds, allergies, etc.  

Way back in March 2020 the public health and epidemiology people were saying that if positivity is over 5% you’re not testing enough.  
 

I suspect areas with low positivity are both testing a lot more people and taking other mitigation measures more seriously. They seem to go together.

If all the tests in my county got averaged out, it's about 1 test per 10 people this week (if we're only counting tests in the community, rather than those given to hospital patients and healthcare staff). It's possible to anonymously pick up a test from the library table (or, as of yesterday, for no apparent reason, from a table outside a department store), so it's not just including people who show up at a drive-through or walk-in test, or people booking sets of tests in connection with a holiday. (Though this could bump up the number of negative tests, because if one goes on holiday without catching COVID, that's likely 3 negative tests in the space of a month).

Masks are fairly prevalent despite not being legally required (many shops simply left the signs up stating non-medically exempt people must wear them and cited their rights to set organisation-specific rules), but social distancing doesn't appear to be happening much.

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10 hours ago, kbutton said:

https://www.fox19.com/2021/08/24/workers-sue-tri-state-hospitals-over-covid-19-vaccine-requirement/?fbclid=IwAR3X5-rZOgYNR_UMcFpGAuS6_si5s405Fcbp9dcb_jI7pPAc97yzQxpRpaE

I am confused...is the government maintaining a revenue stream by overcounting or undercounting Covid deaths? These people are nuts.

I believe the claim is that they are overcounting covid deaths and undercounting vaccine deaths. I've seen a lot of posts on social media claiming that the current surge in "covid deaths" is really caused by vaccines, but hospitals are lying and listing them as covid deaths to get the extra government money and hide the truth about vaccines. For example, the Q-nuts known as "America's Frontline Doctors" are pushing the lie that more than 45,000 people have died within 3 days of getting the vaccine, based on calculations by an unnamed "data analyst" who must remain anonymous so scary government agents don't kill her. That is a really widespread belief among anti-vaxxers (including a few on this forum).

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I am just going to vent and get this out.   I had to go to Walmart to return things so I went last night thinking Friday night the store would be empty.  Not so.  College is back in session and the place was packed.  College kids are much less wearing masks.  Other than staff who have to be there were maybe 4 people in the store with very sad masks that are not even doing anything.   Then I drove by a bar and grill that was packed and everyone indoors no spacing.  I left the store crying because I was so freaked out.  When will I be able to get through shopping at a store and not freaking out.  I was masked and vaxxed but I still worry.  And then driving by the bar just made me so sad.  Not that I want to go to the bar, but many those people are living like nothing is going on.  And I have not been living like that.  And because I am still careful and locked down in some ways we have missed out on so much.  Am I doing the right thing to be doing that?  To have made my kids miss out on so much.  I want my teens to do normal teen stuff.  Am I making a mistake for not letting them do the normal stuff?  And my youngers are missing things they want to do too.  Just sucks. 

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