At what point would you lock down again?

[Not_a_Number]

42 minutes ago, SKL said:

So many people in NY got Covid early on that they probably had some protection from later waves.  However, they still have the 2nd highest death rate in the US (after New Jersey).

I doubt that'll be true post-Delta, though. Which is really sad -- places that had mitigation and vaccines available shouldn't be hit as hard as the Northeast. It's just silly for them to be. 

I do wonder what'll happen with Delta in NYC. But I think people are sufficiently traumatized around here that people will be VERY quick to start mitigation if things start spiking for real. Plus the rates of vaccinations are higher. 

[SKL]

1 minute ago, Not_a_Number said:

There's no particular reasons for people to have stayed at 50 percent vaccination, though. I mean, yes, that's the average, but not due to lack of access. 

Some of this is also bad luck, though. Like, Israel got the Delta wave right as they were figuring out that immunity was waning... 

Right, but that 50% was generally about 80+% in the higher risk demographics and lower among younger people, some of whom were not allowed to be vaccinated.  Folks reasonably thought the vax was mostly going to work and young people were mostly not going to get very sick.

[SKL]

3 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

I doubt that'll be true post-Delta, though. Which is really sad -- places that had mitigation and vaccines available shouldn't be hit as hard as the Northeast. It's just silly for them to be. 

I do wonder what'll happen with Delta in NYC. But I think people are sufficiently traumatized around here that people will be VERY quick to start mitigation if things start spiking for real. Plus the rates of vaccinations are higher. 

We'll soon see.

[Not_a_Number]

9 minutes ago, SKL said:

Right, but that 50% was generally about 80+% in the higher risk demographics and lower among younger people, some of whom were not allowed to be vaccinated.  Folks reasonably thought the vax was mostly going to work and young people were mostly not going to get very sick.

There were states that were closer to 70%, so it obviously wasn't maximal. Really, there was no reason Florida's stats couldn't have looked more like the UK's... many cases, few deaths. 

As for what's reasonable or not... well, as someone following the numbers, I think assuming that the vaccine would keep infections down given the number of variants was risky and foolhardy. 

7 minutes ago, SKL said:

We'll soon see.

Yes, we will. I expect things to get much worse here as soon as school starts. The interesting question is, to my mind, whether we'll only have a spike in cases or also a spike in deaths 😕 . I don't think there's any doubt we'll have a spike in cases, but frankly that may be for the best -- if most people are vaccinated, some natural immunity in the mix couldn't hurt. 

Of course, a spike in kids could be a really bad thing, if this variant is harder on kids 😞 . I wish they'd approve the kid vaccines already. 

Edited August 25, 2021 by Not_a_Number

[SKL]

7 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

There were states that were closer to 70%, so it obviously wasn't maximal. Really, there was no reason Florida's stats couldn't have looked more like the UK's... many cases, few deaths. 

As for what's reasonable or not... well, as someone following the numbers, I think assuming that the vaccine would keep infections down given the number of variants was risky and foolhardy.

To be fair, you spend a lot more time thinking and reading about this than most people, and I'm not sure it would be good for everyone to spend that much time on it.  And even with all the time you spend on it, you still wonder very frequently whether or not you are making the best decisions.

FTR the vax rate in NY is not all that different from the rate in FL.  And Delta has had cases rising there for a while.  I do hope the natural immunity factor works in your state's favor.  Fewer serious illnesses and deaths is of course everyone's hope.

[As for your comment about the UK, their death rate over this pandemic isn't so great either, and it seems likely they also have lots of natural immunity on their side.]

Edited August 25, 2021 by SKL

[Not_a_Number]

2 minutes ago, SKL said:

To be fair, you spend a lot more time thinking and reading about this than most people, and I'm not sure it would be good for everyone to spend that much time on it.  And even with all the time you spend on it, you still wonder very frequently whether or not you are making the best decisions.

FTR the vax rate in NY is not all that different from the rate in FL.  And Delta has had cases rising there for a while.  I do hope the natural immunity factor works in your state's favor.  Fewer serious illnesses and deaths is of course everyone's hope.

I doubt natural immunity is going to make much of a difference so much later. I would guess that the high rates of vaccinations and willingness to mitigate will help, though. 

I don't know the breakdown in FL, actually. Is it like around here with more people in cities vaccinated and fewer outside the cities? 

 

2 minutes ago, SKL said:

[As for your comment about the UK, their death rate over this pandemic isn't so great either, and it seems likely they also have lots of natural immunity on their side.]

I just meant the Delta wave. They have a ton of cases and very few deaths. Our stats do not look like that. 

[Laura Corin]

5 minutes ago, SKL said:

 

[As for your comment about the UK, their death rate over this pandemic isn't so great either, and it seems likely they also have lots of natural immunity on their side.]

Absolutely - the death rate in the early waves has been horrendous and there's probably some natural immunity, although that has probably waned in many cases by now. The case to deaths comparison from Delta between the UK and the US is pretty stark though. This article suggests that the cause may be the near-100 percent vaccination in the over-65s in the UK.

Many Older Americans Still Aren’t Vaccinated, Making the Delta Wave Deadlier https://nyti.ms/3mtsG6g

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, Laura Corin said:

Absolutely - the death rate in the early waves has been horrendous and there's probably some natural immunity, although that has probably waned in many cases by now. The case to deaths comparison from Delta between the UK and the US is pretty stark though. This article suggests that the cause may be the near-100 percent vaccination in the over-65s in the UK.

Many Older Americans Still Aren’t Vaccinated, Making the Delta Wave Deadlier https://nyti.ms/3mtsG6g

Right. In the US, the vaccinated people aren't the ones who are highest risk, necessarily. And I get the sense that people in their 40s and 50s feel "healthy" and "protected" for some reason that's completely incompatible with the statistics. 

[Laura Corin]

1 minute ago, Not_a_Number said:

Right. In the US, the vaccinated people aren't the ones who are highest risk, necessarily. And I get the sense that people in their 40s and 50s feel "healthy" and "protected" for some reason that's completely incompatible with the statistics. 

The two-jab vaccination rate for people in their 50s here looks to be about 85 percent. 

[cintinative]

I was wondering if people saw this:

https://emilysmith.substack.com/p/schools-and-churches-heres-the-data?r=aezlb&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR1KWO0LG1DXoKvD05nhmuFYxwtotDAstpnnK5EoIMtoq6vGapNbL5--i1o

 

Or this one? (compares CA and FL status)

https://news.yahoo.com/florida-is-the-only-state-where-more-people-are-dying-of-covid-now-than-ever-before-what-went-wrong-090001893.html

[SKL]

12 minutes ago, cintinative said:

I was wondering if people saw this:

...Or this one? (compares CA and FL status)

https://news.yahoo.com/florida-is-the-only-state-where-more-people-are-dying-of-covid-now-than-ever-before-what-went-wrong-090001893.html

One important factor to consider in comparing Florida and California though -

When ranking states by median age, Florida is 6th from the top, while California is 7th from the bottom.

It seems obvious that Florida would have a higher death rate than California - even if mitigation practices were exactly the same.

Edited August 25, 2021 by SKL

[Laura Corin]

Back to personal decisions in the face of data. My county has a 7 day positivity rate of 9.8 percent. Tests are highly available and free. The population of the county is around 400,000 and one person died of Covid in the past week.  The hospitals are busy but not overwhelmed,  I think. The nearest teaching hospital reopened a 30 bed extra Covid ward about a month ago. More recent news online is regarding changes to parking charges there. 

I'm fully masked with a Cambridge mask in all shared indoor spaces beyond the home, so we are not going to pubs or restaurants.  I shop in person and plan to visit an art gallery this weekend.  We are not taking trains unless required for our jobs. I have just opted to take my evening university class online until Christmas. We are going away to a self-catering location,  not a hotel, next month. I  test weekly before visiting my mother.

[Corraleno]

1 hour ago, SKL said:

One important factor to consider in comparing Florida and California though -

When ranking states by median age, Florida is 6th from the top, while California is 7th from the bottom.

It seems obvious that Florida would have a higher death rate than California - even if mitigation practices were exactly the same.

By that calculation, Maine, Vermont, and New Hampshire, which have the oldest median ages, should have the highest death rates in the country. In fact Maine and Vermont are in the bottom 4 for death rate, they have 1/3 to 1/4 the death rate of Florida, and New Hampshire's is half of Florida's. Texas has one of the youngest populations in the US, 7.5 years lower than Florida, and yet the per capita death rates for Texas and Florida are almost identical — and they are vastly higher than Maine, Vermont, and NH, which have older populations but higher vax rates and more mitigation measures.

Edited August 25, 2021 by Corraleno

[mommyoffive]

In Florida, Pandemic Is Worse Now Than It Has Ever Been Before (msn.com)

Texas governor bans COVID-19 vaccine mandates regardless of approval status (msn.com)

 

Covid pandemic test scores: Many predicted some kind of 'Covid slide' in learning. Test results show how bad it is (msn.com)

[SKL]

1 minute ago, Corraleno said:

By that calculation, Maine, Vermont, and New Hampshire, which have the oldest median ages, should have the highest death rates in the country. In fact Maine and Vermont are in the bottom 4 for death rate, they have 1/3 to 1/4 the death rate of Florida, and New Hampshire's is half of Florida's. Texas has one of the youngest populations in the US, 7.5 years lower than Florida, and yet the per capita death rates for Texas and Florida are almost identical — and they are vastly higher than states with higher vax rates and more mitigation measures.

Well of course there are other factors to consider, but the linked article was assuming there was a lot of comparability between California and Florida in the summer.

(I didn't read far enough to determine whether or not they analyzed differences over the winter, when California's deaths per population were higher than Florida's.)

[popmom]

4 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

By that calculation, Maine, Vermont, and New Hampshire, which have the oldest median ages, should have the highest death rates in the country. In fact Maine and Vermont are in the bottom 4 for death rate, they have 1/3 to 1/4 the death rate of Florida, and New Hampshire's is half of Florida's. Texas has one of the youngest populations in the US, 7.5 years lower than Florida, and yet the per capita death rates for Texas and Florida are almost identical — and they are vastly higher than Maine, Vermont, and NH, which have older populations but higher vax rates and more mitigation measures.

The NE states have lower rates of obesity though and probably lower rates of other risk factors that go along with obesity. There are really too many variables.

[Wheres Toto]

2 hours ago, SKL said:

Lack of testing, lack of knowledge about the virus, Eastern super-spreader event(s) very early on before people knew it was a possibility, and certainly not least, the devastating decisions made in respect to nursing homes in some states.

So many people in NY got Covid early on that they probably had some protection from later waves.  However, they still have the 2nd highest death rate in the US (after New Jersey).

NJ has the highest per capital death rate.  

Looks like NJ had 301 per 100,000, NY has 278 per 100,000, so we win.  😟

But we had very little hospital overwhelm and only at the very beginning.

[ktgrok]

1 hour ago, Not_a_Number said:

 

I don't know the breakdown in FL, actually. Is it like around here with more people in cities vaccinated and fewer outside the cities? 

 

 

To some extent, yes. Some of the rural counties have VERY low vaccination rates. 

[ktgrok]

so, my single mom friend got ANOTHER exposure letter. That's 11. In two weeks of school. 

She's pulling them, and will be paying a babysitter, somehow, and hopefully get some help from her parents. She's so upset, because her one kid with autism is starting to make a few friends, but he is the one with an immune deficiency specific to respiratory illness. A normal cold has him with pneumonia, breathing treatments, coughing until he pukes, etc. He can't afford to get Covid. And being in and out of school for quarantine isn't going to do well with his autism. 

Edited August 25, 2021 by ktgrok

[Bootsie]

5 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

By that calculation, Maine, Vermont, and New Hampshire, which have the oldest median ages, should have the highest death rates in the country. In fact Maine and Vermont are in the bottom 4 for death rate, they have 1/3 to 1/4 the death rate of Florida, and New Hampshire's is half of Florida's. Texas has one of the youngest populations in the US, 7.5 years lower than Florida, and yet the per capita death rates for Texas and Florida are almost identical — and they are vastly higher than Maine, Vermont, and NH, which have older populations but higher vax rates and more mitigation measures.

But it is really a myriad of factor.  Age is one (and that would not necessarily by based on median age but what percent of population are elderly).   Population density is much higher in Florida than in Maine. Vermont, and New Hampshire.  There would also be a lot of other factors such as household structure, amount of travel from other countries and other states, etc.  Mitigation factors would impact some of that, but if you have major ports, you will have traffic coming in to meet the needs of the entire country.  Or, if people have homes in your state and a residence in another state, it is going to impact virus transmission.

[cintinative]

1 hour ago, SKL said:

One important factor to consider in comparing Florida and California though -

When ranking states by median age, Florida is 6th from the top, while California is 7th from the bottom.

It seems obvious that Florida would have a higher death rate than California - even if mitigation practices were exactly the same.

It would be interesting (if we had data and time) to compare the demographics of the deaths post-availability of vaccine in both states.  I tried looking on the FL site and they have deaths by age range but they seem to be cumulative. They don't report deaths by age range by reporting period (that might be in a downloadable csv file or something?).  Anyway, the oldest FL residents have the highest vaccination rate.  So it would be interesting to compare say, that set of folks in CA and FL pre-vaccine and post.

[Arcadia]

For those thinking of comparing California and Florida, Kaiser reporting system is not working in NorCal.

”Due to data transmission issues between Kaiser and the state's CalREDIE system since late July, case and testing data are currently under reported.”

[Corraleno]

 

23 minutes ago, popmom said:

The NE states have lower rates of obesity though and probably lower rates of other risk factors that go along with obesity. There are really too many variables.

 

13 minutes ago, Bootsie said:

But it is really a myriad of factor.  Age is one (and that would not necessarily by based on median age but what percent of population are elderly).   Population density is much higher in Florida than in Maine. Vermont, and New Hampshire.  There would also be a lot of other factors such as household structure, amount of travel from other countries and other states, etc.  Mitigation factors would impact some of that, but if you have major ports, you will have traffic coming in to meet the needs of the entire country.  Or, if people have homes in your state and a residence in another state, it is going to impact virus transmission.

I agree there are a multitude of factors involved. I was just disputing the claim that it's "obvious" FL would have a higher death rate than CA because the median age is much higher. TX has the lowest median age in the country, lower than than CA, yet they have the same per capita death rate as FL.

[Not_a_Number]

52 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

I agree there are a multitude of factors involved. I was just disputing the claim that it's "obvious" FL would have a higher death rate than CA because the median age is much higher. TX has the lowest median age in the country, lower than than CA, yet they have the same per capita death rate as FL.

And their current waves are extra worrisome, especially since schools will add fuel to that fire 😕 . 

[Not_a_Number]

1 hour ago, ktgrok said:

so, my single mom friend got ANOTHER exposure letter. That's 11. In two weeks of school. 

She's pulling them, and will be paying a babysitter, somehow, and hopefully get some help from her parents. She's so upset, because her one kid with autism is starting to make a few friends, but he is the one with an immune deficiency specific to respiratory illness. A normal cold has him with pneumonia, breathing treatments, coughing until he pukes, etc. He can't afford to get Covid. And being in and out of school for quarantine isn't going to do well with his autism. 

I think she's making the right decision 😞 . Unfortunately. It really sucks that she has to make it. 

[Danae]

A friend just speculated that part of Florida looking worse than its vaccination numbers would suggest might be because of snowbirds getting vaccinated in Florida and then leaving for the summer.  So the percentage of the summer population that is vaccinated is lower.  

[Not_a_Number]

12 minutes ago, Danae said:

A friend just speculated that part of Florida looking worse than its vaccination numbers would suggest might be because of snowbirds getting vaccinated in Florida and then leaving for the summer.  So the percentage of the summer population that is vaccinated is lower.  

Ooooooh. That is a clever idea. 

[KSera]

6 hours ago, Not_a_Number said:

But I think people are sufficiently traumatized around here that people will be VERY quick to start mitigation if things start spiking for real.. 

One would think that would apply to many places in the south right now as well, but it doesn’t seem to be the case. Especially Florida. Doesn’t seem to be having much impact at all. 

[Arcadia]

New York City/Grand Slam

https://apnews.com/article/sports-tennis-health-coronavirus-pandemic-us-open-tennis-championships-4a87c176c482cfe73a65aa4f9bfd22c1
“Spectators will not be required to wear masks or show proof of their vaccination status to attend matches at the U.S. Open when the tennis tournament returns at full capacity next week, one year after all fans were banned from the event because of the coronavirus pandemic.

“The goal is not to prevent all cases of COVID. The goal, really, is to be certain that we don’t have an outbreak of COVID that’s going to be unusual or that we would regret,” Dr. Brian Hainline, a U.S. Tennis Association first vice president and member of its medical advisory group, said on a conference call with reporters on Wednesday. “We’re still relying on the goodwill of people. The unvaccinated — although it’s not going to be enforced — they really should be wearing masks. I expect many vaccinated individuals are going to be wearing masks, as well.”

The year’s last Grand Slam tournament starts Monday in New York.

Fueled by the highly contagious delta variant of the virus, new reported cases of COVID-19 in the U.S. have topped 150,000 a day, the highest level since late January.

Hainline and other USTA officials said Wednesday that the tournament’s protocols are based on what has been laid out by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and the New York City Department of Public Health.

“This is not a USTA decision or a U.S. Open decision. This is a decision made with New York City,” said Hainline, who is also the NCAA’s chief medical officer.

…

Players don’t need to be vaccinated to compete; they will be tested for COVID-19 when they arrive in New York and then every four days. A positive result will force the player to isolate for 10 days and withdraw from the tournament.

Spectators won’t need to fill out health questionnaires and will not have their temperatures taken to access the Billie Jean King National Tennis Center. To eat indoors there, anyone 12 and older will need to show proof they’ve had at least one dose of a vaccine. All courts are considered outdoor venues — including, thanks to their air-filtration systems, Arthur Ashe Stadium and Louis Armstrong Stadium, even if their retractable roofs are closed because of rain.”

 

[popmom]

36 minutes ago, Arcadia said:

New York City/Grand Slam

https://apnews.com/article/sports-tennis-health-coronavirus-pandemic-us-open-tennis-championships-4a87c176c482cfe73a65aa4f9bfd22c1
“Spectators will not be required to wear masks or show proof of their vaccination status to attend matches at the U.S. Open when the tennis tournament returns at full capacity next week, one year after all fans were banned from the event because of the coronavirus pandemic.

“The goal is not to prevent all cases of COVID. The goal, really, is to be certain that we don’t have an outbreak of COVID that’s going to be unusual or that we would regret,” Dr. Brian Hainline, a U.S. Tennis Association first vice president and member of its medical advisory group, said on a conference call with reporters on Wednesday. “We’re still relying on the goodwill of people. The unvaccinated — although it’s not going to be enforced — they really should be wearing masks. I expect many vaccinated individuals are going to be wearing masks, as well.”

The year’s last Grand Slam tournament starts Monday in New York.

Fueled by the highly contagious delta variant of the virus, new reported cases of COVID-19 in the U.S. have topped 150,000 a day, the highest level since late January.

Hainline and other USTA officials said Wednesday that the tournament’s protocols are based on what has been laid out by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and the New York City Department of Public Health.

“This is not a USTA decision or a U.S. Open decision. This is a decision made with New York City,” said Hainline, who is also the NCAA’s chief medical officer.

…

Players don’t need to be vaccinated to compete; they will be tested for COVID-19 when they arrive in New York and then every four days. A positive result will force the player to isolate for 10 days and withdraw from the tournament.

Spectators won’t need to fill out health questionnaires and will not have their temperatures taken to access the Billie Jean King National Tennis Center. To eat indoors there, anyone 12 and older will need to show proof they’ve had at least one dose of a vaccine. All courts are considered outdoor venues — including, thanks to their air-filtration systems, Arthur Ashe Stadium and Louis Armstrong Stadium, even if their retractable roofs are closed because of rain.”

 

The SEC, ACC, and Big 10 conferences say...”HOLD MY BEER.”

College football returns as early as Aug 28. So far (to my knowledge) only LSU has made vaccines and negative test a requirement for entry into games. These stadiums hold 80-100k fans crammed together like sardines—cheering and yelling the entire game. For perspective the Billie Jean King Center holds 8100 ((relatively quiet)) fans.

3 of my kids will be attending Auburn’s season opener. They are each fully vaccinated. One was vaccinated early though because she is in a health care field. Hoping she still has protection.

It’s going to be a crazy experiment on the transmissibility of Delta outdoors.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/lsu-requiring-proof-of-vaccination-or-negative-covid-19-test-at-tiger-stadium-for-fans-12-years-and-older/amp/

Edited August 26, 2021 by popmom

[SKL]

7 hours ago, Ordinary Shoes said:

Possibly but Arizona also has many snowbirds and we're not getting hit like Florida. 

Actually I'd wondered how snowbirds were classified. It seems like many snowbirds keep their northern address as their permanent address. If they got the vaccine in Florida or Arizona in March, did it go into FL/AZ numbers or their home state?

I only know a little about how my state does it.  I learned they count deaths of our state's residents who died in other states.  But they count vaccinations of other states' residents who got vaccinated in our state.

[SKL]

7 hours ago, KSera said:

One would think that would apply to many places in the south right now as well, but it doesn’t seem to be the case. Especially Florida. Doesn’t seem to be having much impact at all. 

Florida's vax rates are climbing just like the other states' vax rates.  Also, mask mandates are popping up here and there, despite the sentiment against them.

[ktgrok]

12 hours ago, Danae said:

A friend just speculated that part of Florida looking worse than its vaccination numbers would suggest might be because of snowbirds getting vaccinated in Florida and then leaving for the summer.  So the percentage of the summer population that is vaccinated is lower.  

Certain areas - Palm Beach and Broward especially/mostly, do have a lot of snowbirds. 

2 hours ago, SKL said:

Florida's vax rates are climbing just like the other states' vax rates.  Also, mask mandates are popping up here and there, despite the sentiment against them.

The ONLY mask mandates are in schools in a few school districts. No county/city has a mask mandate. 

[mommyoffive]

US breaks 100K COVID-19 hospitalizations threshold for first time since January (msn.com)

Among children, older teens are seeing the highest Covid-19 case rates (msn.com)

[ktgrok]

2 minutes ago, mommyoffive said:

US breaks 100K COVID-19 hospitalizations threshold for first time since January (msn.com)

Among children, older teens are seeing the highest Covid-19 case rates (msn.com)

In Florida our highest rates are ages 5-14. But, we opened schools 2 weeks ago. Areas that haven't started school yet are probably different. 

[mommyoffive]

What are everyone's thoughts on outdoor nature school?   Or outdoor sports?   Are they safe if you go masked? 

Are you doing them this fall and winter? 

[freesia]

7 minutes ago, mommyoffive said:

What are everyone's thoughts on outdoor nature school?   Or outdoor sports?   Are they safe if you go masked? 

Are you doing them this fall and winter? 

I would do both.  My unvaccinated dd is doing an outdoor sport. It would  be safer masked, but even with Delta I am not overly concerned over her doing it unmasked.  I will track our local numbers week by week to determine relative risk.

[mommyoffive]

2 minutes ago, freesia said:

I would do both.  My unvaccinated dd is doing an outdoor sport. It would  be safer masked, but even with Delta I am not overly concerned over her doing it unmasked.  I will track our local numbers week by week to determine relative risk.

Are you in a spike or surge of cases?

[Wishes]

I sent my son to outdoor nature preschool three days a week for three hours last year. It is fully outdoors, the kids are masked, they space the kids out when they eat unmasked, and my area has very high vaccination rates. It’s pretty much the only thing I feel comfortable sending him to now and my daughter starts this year as well. 

[prairiewindmomma]

Outdoor nature school, if masked, I'd be fine with. There are a ton of outdoor nature schools here and they've all been really careful.  Outdoor sports? You're looking at a lot more hard breathing, a lot less likelihood of masks, and a lot more contact. Probably not for us.

[mommyoffive]

2 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

Outdoor nature school, if masked, I'd be fine with. There are a ton of outdoor nature schools here and they've all been really careful.  Outdoor sports? You're looking at a lot more hard breathing, a lot less likelihood of masks, and a lot more contact. Probably not for us.

That is so cool you have so many by you!

[SKL]

I am allowing my kids to do everything legal as far as outdoor sports/activities (as was the case last year).  So far they are all unmasked.

[ktgrok]

Distanced and outdoors I am okay with without masks. (hard to hear each other if distanced and masked and outside, in my experience...plus Florida is super hot and humid so like wearing a mask in a steam sauna)

NOT distanced and outdoors I would maybe do masked, depending on the situation. Like, not jam packed at a festival shoulder to shoulder in the mosh pit, but maybe other things. 

It really is hard here because with the heat/humidity, masked outdoors isn't a reasonable option. It just isn't. At that point heatstroke becomes the killer. 

I think we are going to do outdoor sunday school, distanced in their own personal camp chairs. I do think they get to play on the playground after, and will I guess instruct them to keep their distance or wear a mask. Hopefully it will only be for a few weeks before they can start vaccinating and the weather cools down. 

(vaccinated and outdoors I'm okay with without masks again accept crazy stuff like packed shoulder to shoulder - or I suppose in contact sports where you are breathing on each other heavily, I'd want testing weekly or something)

[ktgrok]

Oh, and my county canceled all county sponsored sports as our cases are so high, and the highest rate is in kids 5-14. 

[prairiewindmomma]

1 minute ago, mommyoffive said:

That is so cool you have so many by you!

It really is.  It's been one of the best things about living here. Outdoor school is important enough here that it is standard that even the public school 6th graders spend a week at outdoor school at the end of the school year. (My daughter was really bummed to miss her outdoor school experience because of covid.) https://www.friendsofoutdoorschool.org/what-is-outdoor-school They've modified the program this year so all kids will get to do it even though covid is still at play. (Popping in a link for local folks: https://outdoorschool.oregonstate.edu)  

There are a ton of private schools that are outdoor schools in model, and then there are the usual semester or monthly add-ons that are done through private classes.

 

[ktgrok]

Just now, prairiewindmomma said:

It really is.  It's been one of the best things about living here. Outdoor school is important enough here that it is standard that even the public school 6th graders spend a week at outdoor school at the end of the school year. (My daughter was really bummed to miss her outdoor school experience because of covid.) https://www.friendsofoutdoorschool.org/what-is-outdoor-school They've modified the program this year so all kids will get to do it even though covid is still at play. (Popping in a link for local folks: https://outdoorschool.oregonstate.edu)  

There are a ton of private schools that are outdoor schools in model, and then there are the usual semester or monthly add-ons that are done through private classes.

 

We have a free forest school homeschool group here, that meets weekly, but that's it. Although...again, with the heat/humidity its sort of like "jungle school" more than forest school. I see those being more popular in places the heat and humidity are not trying to actively kill you. (heat alone you can sweat to cool, and drink a lot. With our humidity sweating does nothing to cool you off - it just stays on you. Then you are still hot, but wearing a shirt that feels like it was soaked in hot water)

And if you go into a shady area to get a bit of relief, the bugs are there. SO MANY BUGs...not just mosquitoes, but crawling all over you. 

[ktgrok]

Got an email today from my church that they are going back to asking everyone to wear a mask indoors. Except masks are optional for kids in Sunday School. Still. Even the dang school board defied the governor at the risk of funding loss to require them. UGH. 

This is why we switched. Sorry, but too little, too late. The other church, the UCC one, went back to masks required indoors by everyone August 1st. 25 days ago. AND they are doing all kids activities outside, all coffee hours outside, etc. And no full choir, just a soloist in a mask. 

A pastor's first job is to shepherd his flock. You have to be willing to be pro active and make hard decisions. 

Edited August 26, 2021 by ktgrok

[prairiewindmomma]

2 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

We have a free forest school homeschool group here, that meets weekly, but that's it. Although...again, with the heat/humidity its sort of like "jungle school" more than forest school. I see those being more popular in places the heat and humidity are not trying to actively kill you. (heat alone you can sweat to cool, and drink a lot. With our humidity sweating does nothing to cool you off - it just stays on you. Then you are still hot, but wearing a shirt that feels like it was soaked in hot water)

And if you go into a shady area to get a bit of relief, the bugs are there. SO MANY BUGs...not just mosquitoes, but crawling all over you. 

Yeah. I HATED being outdoors in Texas about 10 months out of the year. Same re: 100F weather for 6+ months of the year, mosquitos that mimicked small birds, and a general unpleasantness about dust, hard rocks, and a lack of things to do..  The midwest was much the same, only it was 100F in the summer and 5F in the winter.

[ktgrok]

In good/bad news, the one conference my husband LOVES, where he is refreshed and renewed and comes back with tons of new info - where he was running a workshop again AND speaking for the first time at - was moved to all virtual as of yesterday. 

It was the right call - it is in South Dakota and the head of the company that runs it says that after seeing what Covid is doing there after Sturgis he cannot in good conscience bring more people to the state, to get it or bring it. He just can't. 

My husband was bummed, but also relieved. After DS22 caught Covid despite vaccination on his trip we were really worried about this trip. 

[Amy Gen]

46 minutes ago, mommyoffive said:

Or outdoor sports?   Are they safe if you go masked? 

We never stopped participating in swim team. Last year, everyone needed to be masked on the pool deck and had to go through a temp check at the beginning of practice. Those safety measures have been dropped, but I’m still masking and having my kids mask and they are certainly not the only ones masking voluntarily. 
 

My kids have never been in school, so this is their exercise plus their only social outlet. If we quit the team, they would literally sit in the house all day, and I know that would be very depressing for them. 
 

I still have one kid too young to be vaccinated, so I really don’t want to take any unnecessary risks. Swim team feels necessary to me though.