When you are suddenly in a different income bracket than your friends...

[teachermom2834]

How do you tactfully manage relationships where you once shared common ground financially and now you have moved ahead? I'm in that circumstance and I'm not sure how to proceed tactfully. I'll try to explain...I'm sure other people have been on either side of it. 

For example, you and your friend group had always had pretty run down outdated houses. You joked about it and felt comraderie about some of the silly stuff about your houses. How does that go when you decide to do a bunch of work on your house? Do you talk about it in passing when appropriate ("like hey I'm going to be late because the flooring guy is still here") or just not say anything and then they show up and your house is all fixed up? The kind of stuff in previous times you would have discussed with friends throughout the process but now it feels awkward?

Or say I want a new car? My van is still fine and relatively new for the peer group and compared to things I have driven in the past. But what if I just don't need a van anymore and decide to get rid of it and get something nicer than necessary? Do I say "Hey I'm tired of driving a minivan...thinking about this SUV that would be more fun to drive..."  or "hey I just bought a car" or just show up with a new car? 

I am not the type of person to post about purchases or home improvements on social media so that isn't an issue. 

I'm caught here. I feel like mentioning the work in casual conversation is the way to go. I would have in the past if I was having work done, so why not now just because the work is bigger or more expensive? But I had someone visit and not mention a single thing about the major renovations we have done. I don't need compliments and I didn't offer a tour to show it off. But just saying nothing at all about dramatic changes seems odd. So maybe there is an issue there that I need to be more sensitive to.

I found myself thinking I have to keep my car because of what other people would think or how it would make them feel if I got anything but the most basic used van. That doesn't seem right either. 

It seems worse to me to not mention buying a car to someone who I would always normally discuss such things with. That seems worse that I would just show up with a car that I hadn't mentioned. Like I am trying so hard to be sensitive that it is insulting.

Can anyone help me out here? My husband has worked really hard and we have scrimped and saved and gone without for 25 years. We'll never do anything flashy but my husband is going to be pretty frustrated if I never agree to buy a nicer car because it might make things awkward with my friends. 

I know that the right answer is that people that love you will be happy for you. But the reality of human beings is that it is more complicated than that for alot of people. I know I have felt jealous of people I love in the past. So I get it. I'm just trying to make it as smooth as possible.

[MEmama]

I’ve had friends who have much more money than us, and those who have had much less. Honestly I can’t imagine real friends putting any emphasis on it or caring in the least. Maybe I’ve been lucky. 

[Scarlett]

I can tell you what it is like from the other side. 🙂  My very best friend that I grew up with is still my best friend.  I am in the middle of a texting conversation with her right now.  Anyway, for most of our adult like we were in very similar situations and then one day she became extremely wealthy.  She is really still the same person, but the times when it bugged me the most is when she kept things from me for fear of bragging or making me feel bad.  She does a pretty good job of balancing it now I think but there were a few times I wanted to strangle her for not telling me basic stuff that she would have previously.  

So that is my best advice.  Stay real.  Say it like, 'well we are finally doing some updates.  I am super excited.  What do you think about this color?'  

[teachermom2834]

Well the reason I would say something is because when friends ask what is new I might say that the house is out of sorts right now or whatever. It has never been usual to discuss with friends if we were replacing a water heater or whatever. My friends and I talk about that stuff. I guess that's unusual? If my house is torn apart that is going to disrupt my life and would be the kind of thing I would normally mention. So if I don't it feels like I'm being secretive. 

[Scarlett]

3 minutes ago, Choirfarm3 said:

I guess I wouldn't mention it at all. I'm not sure why you would. We have friends whose houses are MUCH MUCH nicer than ours. I just don't invite them over. They host the company parties.  My house cannot compete with their multi-million dollar house. I would be embarrassed. On the other hand, I was embarrassed when some of our missionary friends from Central America came to stay with us. Our house is like a mansion compared to theirs.  

So, I basically say nothing. And I have people over and try not to worry about what they think. ( But then again, I haven't had people over since Covid.)

If you mean why would she mention the updates?  Because she normally would.  If you can't chat with a friend and say you are having some updates done and that you are excited about it....then what kind of friend is that?

[Shoeless]

Don't over think it. 

If they ask "So what's new?", I think it would be weird to hold back something like "We are fixing up the house" or "We just got a new car! I am so excited!"

Giving an update on your life isn't necessarily bragging. 

[teachermom2834]

Thanks @Scarlett. I appreciate it because you are getting exactly what I am saying. If there is someone I talk to everyday and never mention getting a new car and just show up with it, that seems much worse. 

[teachermom2834]

1 minute ago, MissLemon said:

Don't over think it. 

If they ask "So what's new?", I think it would be weird to hold back something like "We are fixing up the house" or "We just got a new car! I am so excited!"

Giving an update on your life isn't necessarily bragging. 

Thank you. I think that is how I have been handling it and seems best. But not bragging or droning on and on. Doesn't mean that the other person might not feel momentarily uncomfortable or jealous (that is something human many struggle with) but none of my friends would let it be a festering thing. I'm just trying to be most sensitive in the moment.

[OH_Homeschooler]

2 minutes ago, teachermom2834 said:

Well the reason I would say something is because when friends ask what is new I might say that the house is out of sorts right now or whatever. It has never been usual to discuss with friends if we were replacing a water heater or whatever. My friends and I talk about that stuff. I guess that's unusual? If my house is torn apart that is going to disrupt my life and would be the kind of thing I would normally mention. So if I don't it feels like I'm being secretive. 

I don't see that it would be rubbing their noses in it if you're just replacing things that need replacing or upgrading. I got a new roof over the summer and it's not like I'm well off...it's just something I had to do. 

[Scarlett]

1 minute ago, Choirfarm3 said:

I don't know. I just don't talk about that kind of stuff.

You don't have a friend that you would chat with about home remodeling projects?  

[Scarlett]

2 minutes ago, teachermom2834 said:

Thank you. I think that is how I have been handling it and seems best. But not bragging or droning on and on. Doesn't mean that the other person might not feel momentarily uncomfortable or jealous (that is something human many struggle with) but none of my friends would let it be a festering thing. I'm just trying to be most sensitive in the moment.

Oh sure I will admit to being jealous at times.  I have a good talking to myself and move on.  LOL.  

[teachermom2834]

Haha. Is it really unusual to mention home improvements?  If my kitchen was being remodeled I would surely mention trying to feed the family without the kitchen. It would be a major disruption in my life and I can't imagine it not coming up with friends I talk to frequently. Not complaining or bragging...just "ugh it's going to be pizza takeout again tonight."   But I am the first to admit to being boring!

 

Edited December 31, 2020 by teachermom2834

[teachermom2834]

Just now, Scarlett said:

Oh sure I will admit to being jealous at times.  I have a good talking to myself and move on.  LOL.  

Oh me too!! I have had plenty of practice with people having better stuff than me!

[Scarlett]

Just now, teachermom2834 said:

Haha. Is it really unusual to mention home improvements?  If my kitchen was being remodeled I would surely mention trying to feed the family without the kitchen. It would be a major disruption in my life and I can't imagine it not coming up with friends I talk to frequently. Not compailing or bragging...just "ugh it's going to be pizza takeout again tonight."   But I am the first to admit to being boring!

 

Oh good grief I talk to my friends about everything.  What furniture I want to  buy, how expensive furniture is.  Needing to get my kitchen cabinets painted, how much I love having a pool and can't wait to have friends over when Covid is past.  Maybe I am weird too then, I don't know.

[Carrie12345]

Your real friends will be happy for you, so it doesn’t matter. 

I’ve got friends on both ends, and nobody thinks (that I know of, at least) anything of it.

[Scarlett]

I remember when she showed up with her first new car.  Just.....showed up with it.  Even though I talked to her nearly daily, she someone failed to mention she had a new car.  It really annoyed me. But I know her well enough to know she did not want to feel like she was bragging.  I think I said, 'um, whats up with not mentioning a new car?'  And after that she got better about not being so secretive.  Although as the years passed things do change and I  wasn't even surprised when I went to visit her last year l and she had a new Jaguar.  I said 'nice car.'  She said, 'thanks.' And that was that.  LOL

[fairfarmhand]

1 minute ago, teachermom2834 said:

Haha. Is it really unusual to mention home improvements?  If my kitchen was being remodeled I would surely mention trying to feed the family without the kitchen. It would be a major disruption in my life and I can't imagine it not coming up with friends I talk to frequently. Not compailing or bragging...just "ugh it's going to be pizza takeout again tonight."   But I am the first to admit to being boring!

 

Nope, its not weird to mention home improvements. My best friend's dh put down new flooring. She talked about how messy it is and how good it looked when she was done. I still have stained worn carpet instead of wood, but we did close in our garage and build a new sunroom in the space. I complained about how my shoulder hurt when I had to paint the new space and how excited my dd15 was to have her own room. We talk about what's going on in our lives and home improvements are part of it. Just like she and her dh recently refinanced to get rid of some debt, now they have lower monthly bills. I'm super glad for them. Their business was slammed by covid and not having those high monthly bills will help her family out.

It's just like my friend only has one child because of medical stuff though she wanted more. I don't not talk about what it's like to have four kids. She will sometimes mention how she wishes he had a sibling to play a game with him so she isn;t always the only one, and I'll mention how much laundry we do and how big the grocery bill is. 

[Moonhawk]

If you don't want to change behavior of sharing but are self conscious about the level these changes are, I think just leave the level/impliations/judgement out of it when sharing.

I think the phrase, "We're having some work done on the kitchen, the kids are loving all these pizza nights" would probably be how I phrased it. You don't have to justify or frame it as "necessary" to be done, or cautiously imply that it is something you deem as more luxurious, just that it is being done. 

For a car, "Yeah, it was time for a new vehicle. My needs have changed so I got something different this time round." Just...matter of fact, no justification necessary. The "time for a new vehicle" implies nothing -- your old one could have died, or it could just be a whim. 

With time, you'll probably get more comfortable with divulging these are more wants than needs, and find a comfortable level of detail to share. It may be different with different friends, and that's ok.

Congratulations on being in this stage, it sounds fun to remodel and change things around! 🙂 

[Guest]

I wouldn’t casually say, “I’ll be over when the flooring guy’s done.” It will sound intentionally provocative, like you want them to say, “Oh, are you having new floors put in?” I would say, “Oh, Jane, I’m so excited because I’m finally going to have my floors replaced next week! I’m sure you recall how much those creaky floors bugged me! Well, Bob gave me a Christmas gift of new floors, since he made out well on a couple of jobs.” And then, say no more. 

I do know what you mean about the car, though. Years ago, we got a Cadillac Escalade and I felt like some sort of imposter in certain settings; particularly at the homeschool co-op. I felt like I had to sheepishly say, “Oh, my husband just had to have it...” I also felt conspicuous if I went somewhere like Goodwill. In some ways, I preferred driving the old beater Taurus because I just felt comfortably anonymous in that car. 

I did have one acquaintance/friend who was obviously always uncomfortable with my house, because I think she felt badly about her house by comparison. We never really got past that, though I don’t think it was the only disconnection point between us. 

[EKS]

I'd do my best to keep things low key but real as well.  So I wouldn't go on and on about all of the expensive renovations you're doing, but I would mention in passing that you're doing some work on the house.  The car is a little more difficult, but I'd just show up with it when the time comes.  

If they can't handle your change in income level, they weren't really friends to begin with.

[AmandaVT]

I've been on both sides - when we were scrimping money and had to check bank account to make sure we had enough for groceries, I never minded hearing about friends' new things or house repairs. And now, when things are a bit looser, I try to stay pretty matter of fact about things. not make a huge deal and not hide either. Except when we bought a house this summer. All of our friends/family knew how much we needed to upgrade to a bigger home and how hard/long we had been trying to do it. 

[Guest]

Oh, one thing I want to add: don’t do that false burden thing. Everyone sees through that immediately. Like this: “Ugh! My husband insisted on granite countertops in our new kitchen! Oh, they are awful, and were so expensive and now I have to clean the counters all the time!” 

[Farrar]

Totally agreed with the advice above. The way I think about it is this... all you can do is not be weird about it. Hiding it, talking around it, not mentioning it when it's the sort of relationship where you would have mentioned it, lying about it, being cagey about it... those things are all being weird about it. 

The flip side is that you can't control if friends decide to make it weird or take it the wrong way. Like, say you casually mention that you're finally getting some work done to some friends or say to a super close friend who you usually would ask her opinion about things that you'd love her opinion about a new floor option... if they then turn around and are nasty about it or say that you're trying to be braggy or something... that's them making it weird and you should recognize that you can't control that and that if you spend a lot of time trying to respond, that will just extend it.

[wintermom]

It sounds like you are over-thinking this. If you are still in the same house perhaps your change isn't as great as you are making it out to be. So just act as if you are not in a different income bracket. Imagine 'income bracket' in terms of 1 million instead of thousands. 

[Wheres Toto]

I think I agree with wintermom.  It doesn't seem like it was a drastic increase in income, more you've been careful for a long time and now have more options?    I would just mention things in conversation the same way you would anything else.  

[SereneHome]

I just can't get over the fact that anyone would be seeing remodeling or car buying stories as bragging. Both are huge pain and a lot of hassle.

 

[catz]

I think when it comes to any topic of conversation with friends, you shouldn't need to hide things but I think you can also be sensitive to your friends.  Like if someone says "What's new" you might say "Oh our house is a mess because the bathrooms are being redone.  But I'm super excited to finally have that ugly tile gone for good!".  Some friends might say "Oh that's interesting, who's your contractor? Where are you looking at tile?"  Etc...  And some friends might be "Wow - lucky you.  We're going to be stuck with our pink toilet forever" and change the subject.  And it might vary by week and by subject.   As in most things, read the room.  If someone makes it weird and you're not one to drone on and on, it's really about them.  I know I've had people unfriend me on social media over some of my posting.  And I go WAY out of the way not to brag on social media.  I more use typically as a living photo album (this is what is going on right now - but sometimes that involves travel, or a kid doing a competitive thing, or kid going to a college some might consider fancy (public school lol - but highly competitive for kids in our state)).  We walk this line quite a bit.  I'm sure most of the homeschooling families we mix with are generally lower income than us.  We are way into upper middle class.  But I think our lifestyle reads as considerably less.  Like I have ZERO desire to drive a fancy car or wear designer clothes.  I am enjoying my kia bought at year end close out in paid in full and my lands end bought with coupon TYVM.   

Edited December 30, 2020 by FuzzyCatz

[marbel]

Well, I live in a horribly run-down house with an amazingly bad kitchen and two friends of mine have had their kitchens redone while I have lived here. Both of them were excited about it; one in particular had a terrible kitchen setup and she loved to cook, so she was very happy to get a little more room and counterspace to work. So they talked about it because why wouldn't they, it was a huge deal in their lives. But they didn't make me feel like 'oh, poor me, I can't have them over now because my kitchen is a hovel.' But it would have been very weird if they did not talk about it.

On the other hand, I knew someone who was constantly putting photos of her kitchen remodel and pool installation on social media, with way too much commentary on the work and even once a  prayer request because some thing got delayed and they were going to have to wait a week or so for the work to be finished, oh boo hoo.  That tried my patience mightily.

Pre-covid, we had people over all the time. Some of them lived in very nice, large houses. People seemed to have a good time despite our chipped vinyl flooring and worn-out cabinet doors.  

I think the people who worry about this stuff are not the ones with the problem.

 

[SanDiegoMom]

1 hour ago, Quill said:

 

I do know what you mean about the car, though. Years ago, we got a Cadillac Escalade and I felt like some sort of imposter in certain settings; particularly at the homeschool co-op. I felt like I had to sheepishly say, “Oh, my husband just had to have it...” I also felt conspicuous if I went somewhere like Goodwill. In some ways, I preferred driving the old beater Taurus because I just felt comfortably anonymous in that car. 

 

My husband has a 2014 Airstream (bought new).  We laugh at him because he feels so weird having something that is so expensive -- whenever someone asks him about it he ALWAYS has to say "Oh, I did a year deployment in Afghanistan so I treated myself to this afterward".  He even yelled this to someone who pulled up in their car next to his and commented on his trailer.  (Imagine someone yelling at a car pulling away "I deployed for a year and this was my reward!") 

We drive pretty average cars, don't take a lot of vacations (the big ones my parents paid for because we couldn't have afforded it!).  All of our home remodels he does himself (he will be redoing both our bathrooms himself, painted our kitchen cabinets, installed our hood, tiled our last kitchen floor, and now is very excitedly learning how to make PLANTATION SHUTTERS, which I didn't even know you could do yourself.  

[Garga]

If it’s something you’d talk about if you had to buy a cheap version, then talk about it even if it’s an expensive version.

So if you’d have excitedly talked in the past about painting the kitchen cabinets, then you can talk about gutting them and replacing them.

If you’d have talked about getting a used car, then talk about getting a new car.

Just don’t gush about it or drone on.  

[freesia]

1 hour ago, FuzzyCatz said:

I think when it comes to any topic of conversation with friends, you shouldn't need to hide things but I think you can also be sensitive to your friends.  Like if someone says "What's new" you might say "Oh our house is a mess because the bathrooms are being redone.  But I'm super excited to finally have that ugly tile gone for good!".  Some friends might say "Oh that's interesting, who's your contractor? Where are you looking at tile?"  Etc...  And some friends might be "Wow - lucky you.  We're going to be stuck with our pink toilet forever" and change the subject.  And it might vary by week and by subject.   As in most things, read the room.  If someone makes it weird and you're not one to drone on and on, it's really about them.  I know I've had people unfriend me on social media over some of my posting.  And I go WAY out of the way not to brag on social media.  I more use typically as a living photo album (this is what is going on right now - but sometimes that involves travel, or a kid doing a competitive thing, or kid going to a college some might consider fancy (public school lol - but highly competitive for kids in our state)).  We walk this line quite a bit.  I'm sure most of the homeschooling families we mix with are generally lower income than us.  We are way into upper middle class.  But I think our lifestyle reads as considerably less.  Like I have ZERO desire to drive a fancy car or wear designer clothes.  I am enjoying my kia bought at year end close out in paid in full and my lands end bought with coupon TYVM.   

lol  This would be me.  I will be stuck with my pink toilets forever bc we live in a parsonage.(But I'd try to live vicariously through my friend getting rid of hers.)

OP, I think the only thing to avoid would be going on and on about it all the time.  We all get jealous once in a while and it's on us to figure out how to deal with it.Just keep being loving and kind to your friends, the same old you, and you should all adjust. I say this as someone whose dh makes a lot less than most of the people we live near.  The only thing that drives me crazy is when people just assume I have the same amount of disposable cash as they do and don't have to budget super carefully for kids activities.  Their cars or renovations don't throw me at all.  Sure I would love a new kitchen (mine is the worst arrangement I've ever had) and to get rid of that pink bathroom,but I sincerely feel happy for others who car redo things (even if I have a twinge of jealousy, it doesn't last.)

[J-rap]

I'm sure we've been at both ends.  I tend to not bring up things that others might not be able to afford.  That feels uncomfortable to me, and I'd rather find things to talk about that everyone can share and be interested in.  There are so many other things to talk about besides things like that.  And usually those things are so unimportant in the long run anyway.  If our home was being remodeled and it was necessary to bring up (like, I couldn't host an event because of it), I'd probably just say we were getting work done and leave it at that.  

We've been at the other end too, and we still hosted people.  True friends won't mind the size of your home or what you have or don't have.  

Honestly, material things -- even if we splurge from time to time  -- aren't even that important to me so it probably wouldn't even occur to me to bring it up.  I sometimes let people know if we're traveling, but it's generally for something not just vacation-related and we're often gone for 2-3 months, so it would be weird if I didn't bring it up at all and then just disappeared for 3 months.  But, I talk about it matter-of-factly and don't go on and on about it.  I don't post pictures and such, and don't even bring it up when I get back unless they ask questions.

 

 

 

Edited December 31, 2020 by J-rap

[Scarlett]

3 hours ago, Quill said:

 

I do know what you mean about the car, though. Years ago, we got a Cadillac Escalade and I felt like some sort of imposter in certain settings; 

 

That reminds me of a funny story.  I went with my friend to scout out Lake house lots or possibly a lake house already built.  We pulled up to an open house in this exclusive gated community and we suddenly felt very out of our league.  As we tried to decide if we should go in my friend says, ‘well we are driving a Lexus’.   And it made us laugh and then we got out and toured the place. 

[SKL]

I think the important thing is that you stay "down-to-earth" in how you deal with your friends.  Whatever that means.  I wouldn't avoid topics you would normally talk about.  Previously it might have been "I finally got the money to patch the hole in my roof so I can stop keeping buckets in the hallway."  Now it might be "We decided the girls need some more bedroom space as they get older, so we're putting an addition over the garage."

As for the car - this is the first time I've heard of a minivan described as a modest vehicle choice.  🙂  You should drive whatever vehicle makes the most sense for you.  Why should your friends care, as long as you aren't telling them to keep their fingerprints off of it?

As for why your friend didn't mention your renovations - call me crazy, but maybe she didn't really notice or was too focused on something else?  I really don't notice the way things look, unless there is something really unusual about them.  For me to remark on a change in my friends' homes, it would have to be something so drastic that I couldn't find my way around without instructions.  😛  Even if I did think maybe there was a change, I wouldn't mention it unless I thought my noticing it was really important to my friend.  Most people I know really would not care, or, I don't think they would.  😛

If there really are people who would get petty over things like this, I have a hard time thinking of them as "friends."  It might be time to move on from some of them if they can't stand to see you having something nice.

One thing that has bugged me though ... when people whine about how poor they are, or how hard things are bla bla bla, and then they turn up with something extravagant.  Like oh, I don't have any money, did you see my new diamond ring?  We're so poor, and look at all this brand name stuff I just bought my kids.  Or there was the time a mom complained to me about the fact that her in-laws bought her husband a fancy car and "only" gave her a minivan.  Gave!  Cry me a river, LOL.  So ... if things are relatively easier for you, don't try to make them sound hard.  Just don't make it a "thing" at all.  Your material stuff (or lack thereof) isn't why you have friends.

[SKL]

Also ... I don't feel the need to tell my friends in advance before I buy something.  Of course I just show up in my new car, coat, whatever.  I mean, I'm sure I blabbed more about my very first new car, because I was excited about it.  But not after that.

[SKL]

4 hours ago, teachermom2834 said:

Haha. Is it really unusual to mention home improvements?  If my kitchen was being remodeled I would surely mention trying to feed the family without the kitchen. It would be a major disruption in my life and I can't imagine it not coming up with friends I talk to frequently. Not compailing or bragging...just "ugh it's going to be pizza takeout again tonight."   But I am the first to admit to being boring!

 

We had a big project done about 5/6 years ago, and at times, over half of our house was inaccessible.  So yes, it came up in conversation.  I guess I don't see why anyone would have a problem with your getting work done on your house.  Most people do, sooner or later, rather than let it crumble down around them, right?

[Lecka]

I think people will be happy for you.

I can see it seeming awkward — but it might not turn out to be too awkward.  

[Melissa Louise]

Idk but one reason I love my best friend is that she didn't offload on me about her renovations at all, which I very much appreciated. 

(I did admire the house the first time I went over after it was finished. Ignoring it seems weird.)

 

 

[easypeasy]

Been on both sides of this. You've gotten good advice. Talk about stuff as feels normal to you. Learn to read a room, lol. Definitely listen to Quill's advice up above (none of this, "I have this new, expensive thing and it sucks so much, poor me!" business). Bring up renovations minimally. No one wants to hear your dilemma of choosing this-hardware-over-that-hardware, yk? Unless they are really into interior design and ask for more details.

The biggest thing is to KEEP LISTENING AND ENGAGING with your friends. I've had friends who would talk all day about the stuff they were having done back when we didn't have any extra $$, and they would just go on and on but would never ask ME about stuff we were doing. They later said they didn't want me to feel awkward, but we WERE doing stuff! We were DIY'ing the heck out of things (and they looked great, tyvm!) and I would've loved to chat about it, but these friends just didn't listen to me.

So, listen and keep being the good friend you've been for years and the rest will fall out as it's just meant to be (and, yeah, that might mean you become less/more close to people as you become more comfortable with having more money to spend). And, as you do more renovations and have other life  changes, you might find you have more in common to talk about with people you know but previously didn't feel a kinship with, yk?

It gets even MORE awkward when you take all the kids out together. The richer parents give their kids $$$ spending money, putting the less wealthy parents in a bit of a pickle. My kids never minded, but their friends would sure ask awkward questions about why they weren't buying everything under the sun!... 😕 lol

 

[gardenmom5]

be matter of fact.  Yes, you can mention things.  it's part of your life.  be the person you were before.  don't over think it.

 

just one piece of advice - don't complain about how much stuff costs.  Dont' complain about how you sold stock and now have to pay capitol gains (one guy did that when dh was out of work for a year.  heaving about what they're doing with the house they're building - fine.)

[DawnM]

Honestly, none of those things you mentioned are on my radar for necessarily being in a higher income bracket.   People live in debt, people rationalize new and bigger things all the time that they really can't afford.

Now, going to a house that cost significantly more would make me think someone has more income.   But remodeling and a new vehicle wouldn't really make me question income changes.

[Hyacinth]

Your post made me think of similar situations with friendships where one of their primary points of connection shift.
 

For example, single friends bond over how hard it is to find a good man. Then one meets a great guy.  

Or two people talk often about their struggles with obesity. Then one loses a lot of weight. 

Infertility, as someone else mentioned, is another good example. 
 

That point of connection—the previously primary topics of conversation—become awkward. 

And then there’s pressure on the one who “succeeded” to downplay the good fortune to maintain the original bond. But that bond isn’t real anymore. I mean, the friendship can still be there, but THAT particular connection cannot be the thing that binds. 

You’ve gotten good advice, OP. Don’t overthink it. Be honest but casual. And find other connections with your friends.  They may have their own struggles with jealousy, but that’s not yours to fix. 

Edited December 31, 2020 by Hyacinth

[Arctic Bunny]

We had friends who consistently his their income. Problem is, small town, everyone knows who has and who doesn’t, kwim? So they built a huge new house, but got upset if anyone remarked that it was a nice house, like nobody was going to notice? Also, they bought brand new vehicles every year, but in the same model and colour so nobody would notice. It was just weird. And it made everyone feel awkward. Like, going to their house, you couldn’t compliment anything. And nobody was supposed to know they had a house cleaner. But they both worked full time jobs with long hours, so why not. Really, they made the money a big deal when it wasn’t.

[teachermom2834]

9 hours ago, SKL said:

We had a big project done about 5/6 years ago, and at times, over half of our house was inaccessible.  So yes, it came up in conversation.  I guess I don't see why anyone would have a problem with your getting work done on your house.  Most people do, sooner or later, rather than let it crumble down around them, right?

Well, you could say I was in the let it crumble down around me phase for a long time. And so are many of the people I associate with. For us, even minor work is a big enough deal it comes up. Because when you are in that phase even replacing an appliance is an event.

As far as discussing a car purchase...it is because when you are living under a bit of financial duress, buying a car is a huge and stressful event which would be something one would discuss with friends. Obviously not everyone but I don’t think it is that unusual, in groups where major purchases are a big burden and deliberated or agonized about. It’s not “OMG I am so excited about my nice new car”. It’s “I am trying to decide between this car with 100,000 miles on it or this one with 110,000 miles on it.” 
 

Just feeling a bit defensive as though I am bragging about all my purchases. Discussing making major purchases isn’t necessarily bragging. 

[Moonhawk]

17 minutes ago, teachermom2834 said:

Well, you could say I was in the let it crumble down around me phase for a long time. And so are many of the people I associate with. For us, even minor work is a big enough deal it comes up. Because when you are in that phase even replacing an appliance is an event.

As far as discussing a car purchase...it is because when you are living under a bit of financial duress, buying a car is a huge and stressful event which would be something one would discuss with friends. Obviously not everyone but I don’t think it is that unusual, in groups where major purchases are a big burden and deliberated or agonized about. It’s not “OMG I am so excited about my nice new car”. It’s “I am trying to decide between this car with 100,000 miles on it or this one with 110,000 miles on it.” 
 

Just feeling a bit defensive as though I am bragging about all my purchases. Discussing making major purchases isn’t necessarily bragging. 

OMG, both my water heater and my stove went out the Monday after Thanksgiving. The number of photos I've taken of both replacements is ridiculous, it's like I'm planning a magazine spread. It's given me conversation fodder for months -- and thank goodness, I was afraid I was becoming a dull conversationalist! 😉 

[teachermom2834]

2 minutes ago, Moonhawk said:

OMG, both my water heater and my stove went out the Monday after Thanksgiving. The number of photos I've taken of both replacements is ridiculous, it's like I'm planning a magazine spread. It's given me conversation fodder for months -- and thank goodness, I was afraid I was becoming a dull conversationalist! 😉 

Well yeah, when my phone and oven died on the same day the week before Christmas I did tell my friends. I helps to have someone commiserate. Now sure why that is such a crazy thing. 

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, teachermom2834 said:

Well, you could say I was in the let it crumble down around me phase for a long time. And so are many of the people I associate with. For us, even minor work is a big enough deal it comes up. Because when you are in that phase even replacing an appliance is an event.

As far as discussing a car purchase...it is because when you are living under a bit of financial duress, buying a car is a huge and stressful event which would be something one would discuss with friends. Obviously not everyone but I don’t think it is that unusual, in groups where major purchases are a big burden and deliberated or agonized about. It’s not “OMG I am so excited about my nice new car”. It’s “I am trying to decide between this car with 100,000 miles on it or this one with 110,000 miles on it.” 
 

Just feeling a bit defensive as though I am bragging about all my purchases. Discussing making major purchases isn’t necessarily bragging. 

I do think this is the reason why people typically settle into somewhat of a self-imposed caste system with friendships. It’s pretty uncommon to be in a group of casual friends and have one friend who is major outlier on wealth (in either direction).

People settle out into groups where others are similarly-situated. I think of groups I have been a part of for a long, long time; we are similarly-situated ladies. We are all within ten years age-wise, we all have kids in the same overall age bracket (I’m the member with the youngest child, at 16). We are all married to our original spouses. Though some of the members are farther toward the “upper” end of upper middle class, nobody is a billionaire and nobody is living at or below the poverty line. If either of these things were true, I think that person would quickly become uncomfortable because there would be so very many things they could not relate to. Even just the ability to host the group at your house when your turn comes up requires a certain level of financial security and a home where this is possible to do. 

I do have one friend who is far more towards the “upper” end than I am and it is common for me to feel like I can’t relate. Just for one tiny example: she had a graduation party for her kid and the level of opulence was kind of crazy to me. It was closer to a wedding. But the part that bugged me was when she was telling me about the cookies. A mutual friend of ours, who lives on the opposite coast, makes really gorgeous cookies for occasions. I actually did consider having her do cookies for my own kid’s grad party, but, though I think it is correctly priced for the artistry involved, it was much too expensive and some were bound to be damaged in shipping. But wealthy friend did have several dozen cookies made but she said something to me like, “I told ‘Jane’ she is way under-charging for the work that is involved. And some of the cookies broke in shipping.; it should have been more bubble-wrapped.” I couldn’t relate. I decided against hundreds of dollars for cookies shipped from the Pacific coast, but here she was telling me she thought it was too cheap. Gross. I really think she should have just said, “Didn’t Jane do a beautiful job with these? She is so very talented!” And left it at that. 

[Xahm]

It is a tough thing, and I'm sometimes on one end, sometimes another. My husband has a decent but not high paying job, but a combination of fortunate timing, sacrifices in early adulthood, and frugal living means we are very, very financially stable. He's hoping to quit his job and go back for a more advanced degree, and we'll be able to swing that, which is super big and exciting. But I can't talk about that with my friend who has one working vehicle between 4 adults, and that vehicle just broke down. 

We have family that are on opposite extremes of middle class, while we sit in the middle. I saw in childhood how that hurt the relationship between my father and uncles, and I'm hoping we can avoid similar. It makes Christmas presents a mine field, though!

[Alicia64]

I have no answers. I've been on both sides. In one state we were the poor country mice and then we moved to another state and became the city mice. Friends looked at me funny both times.

Just thinking as I'm writing.

I haven't read all of the posts, I hope I'm not repeating: but I think it depends on the individual friend. It's not likely going to be a "one size fits all."

I think the issues of money between friends, spouses, even adult children (ex: my grandfather who was blue collar never stepped a toe in my dad's very white collar fancy house) are very, very real.

If I were in your shoes, I'd take the friend element out of it as much as possible -- I know that's hard -- and work on myself becoming more comfortable having money. Once you 100 percent have your own back, I'm betting most of your friends will be fine. (Full disclosure: I have to add that as I made some life altering changes, I lost friends. I'm pretty sure I lost a friend or two when I started homeschooling. One even pointblank said, "What the H are you doing??")

It sounds cheesy, but I think journaling daily on a topic can really produce significant results.

In the meantime, can I have your van? 🙃

Wendy

Edited December 31, 2020 by Alicia64
Had to fix terrible punctuation.

[PeterPan]

16 hours ago, teachermom2834 said:

Thank you. I think that is how I have been handling it and seems best. But not bragging or droning on and on. Doesn't mean that the other person might not feel momentarily uncomfortable or jealous (that is something human many struggle with) but none of my friends would let it be a festering thing. I'm just trying to be most sensitive in the moment.

Maybe you should *ask* them how they want you to handle it? If you have that open a relationship, just discuss it. It shows you're sensitive and caring and want to respect how they feel about it. They will probably have something middle of the road they say, like of course they want to hear some but don't rub in your new Cadillac. 

Edited December 31, 2020 by PeterPan