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The Vaccine Thread


JennyD

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1 minute ago, Selkie said:

I had a checkup this morning with my nurse practitioner and talked with her about Covid. Her office is once again swamped with people needing tests. She said that of the vaccinated people they have tested who were positive, every one of them had the Pfizer vax. They haven’t had one single person test positive who had the Moderna vax. (She didn’t mention J & J, and I forgot to ask.)

She also said that she believes third shots will be available for all by late September.

Oh, Jeez.  And I was so happy I got Pfizer! 😬

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3 minutes ago, Selkie said:

I had a checkup this morning with my nurse practitioner and talked with her about Covid. Her office is once again swamped with people needing tests. She said that of the vaccinated people they have tested who were positive, every one of them had the Pfizer vax. They haven’t had one single person test positive who had the Moderna vax. (She didn’t mention J & J, and I forgot to ask.)

She also said that she believes third shots will be available for all by late September.

Wow, that is crazy.  I know it isn't a study or anything, but wow.  Upsetting that Pfizer is the only option for kids. 

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1 hour ago, Selkie said:

I had a checkup this morning with my nurse practitioner and talked with her about Covid. Her office is once again swamped with people needing tests. She said that of the vaccinated people they have tested who were positive, every one of them had the Pfizer vax. They haven’t had one single person test positive who had the Moderna vax. (She didn’t mention J & J, and I forgot to ask.)

She also said that she believes third shots will be available for all by late September.

Well, that could also be locale too.  Like both DH and I got pfizer at certain clinic chains and patients that use those chains would have been  more likely to get a Pfizer.  I don't know a ton of people who've had breakthrough cases, but it has been a mix of vaccines.  A bunch of kids had J&J at my kid's college, couple breakthroughs there too.  But  everyone I know who has had a breakthrough has had very minor cases.  Like if covid weren't a thing they wouldn't have been tested or thought anything of their summer cold.   I do know there is some data that makes Moderna better right now.  But meh, who knows if Pfizer does a booster sooner, than that crew may look better off for a while.  I am not sad any more we were on the later end for getting vaccinated!

I saw this going around that 8 months was going to be the booster recommendation for most ... ?  Also recommended boosting for both Pfizer and Moderna.   I guess we will see
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/covid-19-vaccine-booster-shot-8-months/

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1 hour ago, FuzzyCatz said:

Well, that could also be locale too.  Like both DH and I got pfizer at certain clinic chains and patients that use those chains would have been  more likely to get a Pfizer.  I don't know a ton of people who've had breakthrough cases, but it has been a mix of vaccines.  A bunch of kids had J&J at my kid's college, couple breakthroughs there too.  But  everyone I know who has had a breakthrough has had very minor cases.  Like if covid weren't a thing they wouldn't have been tested or thought anything of their summer cold.   I do know there is some data that makes Moderna better right now.  But meh, who knows if Pfizer does a booster sooner, than that crew may look better off for a while.  I am not sad any more we were on the later end for getting vaccinated!

I saw this going around that 8 months was going to be the booster recommendation for most ... ?  Also recommended boosting for both Pfizer and Moderna.   I guess we will see
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/covid-19-vaccine-booster-shot-8-months/

Pfizer, Moderna, and J & J have all been readily available here since early April, so we're not like some areas that predominantly got one type of vaccine over the others.

My nurse practitioner said that based on what she's seeing with breakthrough infections, she is glad that her family got Moderna (which made me happy, because that's the one we chose, too).

She said that as of right now, the recommendation is to wait eight months for the third shot, but she thinks there is a possibility that might change to a shorter interval.

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18 hours ago, Spy Car said:

Texas has requested five mortuary trailers from the federal government in anticipation of an influx of dead bodies.

Meanwhile, Texas, Gov. Abbott has said he will “aggressively sue anyone advocating mandatory vaccinations or masks.”

This is insanity.

Bill

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/texas-requests-five-mortuary-trailers-anticipation-covid-deaths-n1276924

 

 

Texas Gov. Greg Abbott is currently isolated in the Governor's mansion and is receiving Regeneron monoclonal antibody treatment after testing positive for Covid.

Bill

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13 minutes ago, Spy Car said:

Texas Gov. Greg Abbott is currently isolated in the Governor's mansion and is receiving Regeneron monoclonal antibody treatment after testing positive for Covid.

Bill

This absolutely infuriates me.  Dude is ASYMPTOMATIC.  🤬

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2 hours ago, Spy Car said:

Texas Gov. Greg Abbott is currently isolated in the Governor's mansion and is receiving Regeneron monoclonal antibody treatment after testing positive for Covid.

Bill

I have words. Unfortunately, none of them are fit for typing here. 😠

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4 hours ago, ktgrok said:

Yeah, almost no one got Moderna that I know, in my area. Over on the coast, many did. Just depends on your area. 

Here more remote locations got Moderna bc it is somewhat less finicky about temperature and handling. The in-town and university vax sites had Pfizer. I got my vax a  country health dept an hour drive out in the country, so Moderna. 

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Covid-19 vaccine booster shots to be offered to Americans beginning September 20, health officials say - CNN

US health officials and medical experts announced in a joint statement on Wednesday that booster doses of Covid-19 vaccine will be offered this fall, subject to authorization from the US Food and Drug Administration and sign off from the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

"We are prepared to offer booster shots for all Americans beginning the week of September 20 and starting 8 months after an individual's second dose," US health officials, including CDC Director Dr. Rochelle Walensky and FDA Acting Commissioner Dr. Janet Woodcock, said in the statement.
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In A Message To Americans, Pope Francis Says Getting Vaccinated Is 'An Act Of Love':

The Vatican has declared that it is morally acceptable for Catholics to receive COVID-19 vaccines, including those based on research that used cells derived from aborted fetuses.

https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/08/18/1028740057/in-a-message-to-americans-pope-francis-says-getting-vaccinated-is-an-act-of-love

 

Edited by mathnerd
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Booster shots may make virus ‘less transmissible,’ CDC director says (msn.com)

 

'Miserable' breakthrough COVID-19 cases are increasing, but experts aren't sure how common they are (msn.com)

 

CDC says vaccine protectiveness slipped amid Delta variant (msn.com)

 

 

Washington State Will Require All Teachers to be Vaccinated - The New York Times (nytimes.com)

All teachers and school personnel in Washington State — including coaches, bus drivers and volunteers — will need to be fully vaccinated as a condition of employment, under a new policy announced by Gov. Jay Inslee on Wednesday. The requirement applies to staff regardless of the type of school in which they work: public, charter or private.

Edited by mommyoffive
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7 hours ago, Laura Corin said:

This is good news for AZ recipients. I wonder if it will do anything at all to put people worried about long term effects from mRNA vaccines at ease. It has been explained frequently that mRNA from the vaccine clears from your system quite quickly, so there shouldn’t be a mechanism for any long term effects. Perhaps this study will drive that home. (Obviously only for the hesitant that truly are just looking for reassurance the mRNA vaccines won’t have some unknown effect in the future. It won’t move the larger group of people who are opposed regardless of information.)

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Cross posting this here...

Apparently Samsung and iPhone now have a way to store your vax status in your phone- part of the process is that they verify with your health provider that you're actually vaxxed, so no self-entering the data.  And apparently Google Pay is doing something similar. You get a QR code.   

Article Link 

Edited by Matryoshka
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As much as I'm pro Covid vax informed consent to the extent of the EUA, I still think it is wrong to mandate it before it is fully approved by the FDA.  Especially for school children, because school is not a place you can just choose not to go.  And even if they do mandate it after full FDA approval, they have to have reasonable exceptions.

What we need is more trust in our nation's health care system, and authoritarian mandates are not going to promote that.

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3 minutes ago, mommyoffive said:

I wonder if this pandemic is going to radically shift American preferences regarding health care.  The pandemic is undeniably worst in poor red states where people are afraid of universal healthcare.  But many of them are dying, others are going to have long-haul symptoms and high inflammation for months.  Even without blood clotting issues from long-haul cases, inflammation is linked to diabetes, heart attacks, strokes, and all kinds of other issues including cancer. Those are all very expensive conditions.

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1 hour ago, SKL said:

As much as I'm pro Covid vax informed consent to the extent of the EUA, I still think it is wrong to mandate it before it is fully approved by the FDA.  Especially for school children, because school is not a place you can just choose not to go. 

Right, but this goes both ways. It’s no more unfair for those who don’t want to be vaccinated than it is for those who don’t want to be at increased risk by being around those who aren’t vaccinated. They have to choose one way or the other to weight that risk; there is no neutral choice here that doesn’t infringe on anyone. Places that are mandating vaccines are weighting the choice in the direction that protects the most lives, rather than in the direction that risks them.

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12 minutes ago, Katy said:

I wonder if this pandemic is going to radically shift American preferences regarding health care.  The pandemic is undeniably worst in poor red states where people are afraid of universal healthcare.  But many of them are dying, others are going to have long-haul symptoms and high inflammation for months.  Even without blood clotting issues from long-haul cases, inflammation is linked to diabetes, heart attacks, strokes, and all kinds of other issues including cancer. Those are all very expensive conditions.

I hope so.  I don't think we can just start adjusting premiums because it gets into junk food, cigarettes, alcohol, risky lifestyle choices etc and just gets too messy.  Co-insurance might be a viable option though.  That way nobody has to police who is making which choices, but people who make lots of poor choices will, on average, shoulder more of the burden than if we have a premium-adjustable option with set copays.

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1 minute ago, Syllieann said:

I hope so.  I don't think we can just start adjusting premiums because it gets into junk food, cigarettes, alcohol, risky lifestyle choices etc and just gets too messy.  Co-insurance might be a viable option though.  That way nobody has to police who is making which choices, but people who make lots of poor choices will, on average, shoulder more of the burden than if we have a premium-adjustable option with set copays.

I agree with the first part, but I think the coinsurance thing is also problematic. There are lots of very expensive health problems that happen to people through no fault of their own. Kids get cancer, people get hit by cars, etc. I don’t think people should be financially punished for that. I honestly just don’t think there’s any perfect solution for healthcare. Certainly, there has to be better than the system we currently have, but there are different issues in countries with full government single payer systems.

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47 minutes ago, KSera said:

Right, but this goes both ways. It’s no more unfair for those who don’t want to be vaccinated than it is for those who don’t want to be at increased risk by being around those who aren’t vaccinated. They have to choose one way or the other to weight that risk; there is no neutral choice here that doesn’t infringe on anyone. Places that are mandating vaccines are weighting the choice in the direction that protects the most lives, rather than in the direction that risks them.

No, because if you choose to get your own kid vaccinated, then your vaccinated kid's risk goes way way down.  Way down from an already very low level.  So there is no reasonable argument that a vaccinated kid is endangered by a non-vaccinated kid.

There have always been exceptions to vaccine requirements in schools, and that should be no different now.  Besides which, there has never before been a school vax mandate for a vax that isn't FDA approved.

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14 minutes ago, SKL said:

No, because if you choose to get your own kid vaccinated, then your vaccinated kid's risk goes way way down.  Way down from an already very low level.  So there is no reasonable argument that a vaccinated kid is endangered by a non-vaccinated kid.

There have always been exceptions to vaccine requirements in schools, and that should be no different now.  Besides which, there has never before been a school vax mandate for a vax that isn't FDA approved.

The argument for school vaccination requirements isn't that the unvaccinated kids present a risk to the vaccinated kids.  The argument is that the unvaccinated kids present a risk to the kids who can't be vaccinated or don't mount an adequate immune response.  Without a mandate, the onus is on the kids who can't be vaccinated to stay locked up.  With a mandate, the onus is on the unvaccinated to stay out of the school if they won't be vaccinated.  It is still a balance between these things.

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2 minutes ago, Syllieann said:

The argument for school vaccination requirements isn't that the unvaccinated kids present a risk to the vaccinated kids.  The argument is that the unvaccinated kids present a risk to the kids who can't be vaccinated or don't mount an adequate immune response.  Without a mandate, the onus is on the kids who can't be vaccinated to stay locked up.  With a mandate, the onus is on the unvaccinated to stay out of the school if they won't be vaccinated.  It is still a balance between these things.

Am I thinking right here?  Would the kids who are medically contraindicated from getting the shot be protected under the different disability acts?    

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1 hour ago, mommyoffive said:

Why would they even bother speculating on this topic at this time?There is no data one way or the other yet. This is what promotes mistrust. Is the CDC director a gambler? I see no other reasons to make a statement like this, that may have to be walked back in the future.

 

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Just now, HeartString said:

Am I thinking right here?  Would the kids who are medically contraindicated from getting the shot be protected under the different disability acts?    

Yes, absolutely.  The current vaccine requirements allow the same.  I can't imagine how anyone would think the schools would force a child who  is allergic, for example, to be vaccinated with something they are allergic to.

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24 minutes ago, Kakids said:

Why would they even bother speculating on this topic at this time?There is no data one way or the other yet. This is what promotes mistrust. Is the CDC director a gambler? I see no other reasons to make a statement like this, that may have to be walked back in the future.

 

Honestly,  though I have argued that the CDC should be careful to not aggravate mistrust, the most distrustful believe absolute hogwash that has no evidence. I don't see what you do about that. It really doesn't matter what you say if they only about what someone else says you said. 

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North Texas doctors have quietly developed a plan that seeks to prepare for the possibility that due to the COVID-19 surge the region will run out of intensive-care beds.

If that happens, for the first time, doctors officially will be allowed to take vaccination status of sick patients into account along with other triage factors to see who gets a bed.

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/watchdog/2021/08/19/if-north-texas-runs-out-of-icu-hospital-beds-doctors-can-consider-a-patients-vaccination-status/

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11 minutes ago, Spy Car said:

Senators Angus King of Maine, Roger Wicker of Mississippi, and John Hickenlooper of Colorado have tested positive for Covid.

Bill

Looks like they are all fully vaccinated at least.  Hopefully it won't be severe for any.

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2 hours ago, SKL said:

No, because if you choose to get your own kid vaccinated, then your vaccinated kid's risk goes way way down.  Way down from an already very low level.  So there is no reasonable argument that a vaccinated kid is endangered by a non-vaccinated kid.

There have always been exceptions to vaccine requirements in schools, and that should be no different now.  Besides which, there has never before been a school vax mandate for a vax that isn't FDA approved.

Not every state has philosophical/religious exemptions. True medical exemptions are very rare. 

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2 hours ago, SKL said:

No, because if you choose to get your own kid vaccinated, then your vaccinated kid's risk goes way way down.  Way down from an already very low level.  So there is no reasonable argument that a vaccinated kid is endangered by a non-vaccinated kid.

There have always been exceptions to vaccine requirements in schools, and that should be no different now.  Besides which, there has never before been a school vax mandate for a vax that isn't FDA approved.

In every district whose policy I’m familiar with students with exemptions are required to stay out of the school building during active outbreaks of the disease(s) they are not vaccinated for.  They will be provided home-based education. And that goes back way before the internet, so it was mostly homework packets and visits from a teacher. 
 

That’s for their own protection and to help stop the outbreak.  

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2 minutes ago, Danae said:

In every district whose policy I’m familiar with students with exemptions are required to stay out of the school building during active outbreaks of the disease(s) they are not vaccinated for.  They will be provided home-based education. And that goes back way before the internet, so it was mostly homework packets and visits from a teacher. 
 

That’s for their own protection and to help stop the outbreak.  

Well again, FDA approval needs to come first before they can discriminate against kids who aren't vaccinated.

It's not like kids can avoid Delta even if everyone in the room is vaccinated.

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5 minutes ago, SKL said:

Well again, FDA approval needs to come first before they can discriminate against kids who aren't vaccinated.

The deadline for proof of vaccination in Culver City schools is mid-November, long after the FDA will have granted full approval.

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10 minutes ago, SKL said:

Well again, FDA approval needs to come first before they can discriminate against kids who aren't vaccinated.

It's not like kids can avoid Delta even if everyone in the room is vaccinated.

Less exposure and fewer sick kids is better than more exposure and more sick kids. 

Fewer car accidents is better than more car accidents. 

Etc. etc. 

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2 hours ago, Kakids said:

Why would they even bother speculating on this topic at this time?There is no data one way or the other yet. This is what promotes mistrust. Is the CDC director a gambler? I see no other reasons to make a statement like this, that may have to be walked back in the future.

 

The CDC does keep making gaffes with what they say, but looking at this one, this appears to be more a case of a headline that says something different than the CDC director actually said. The CDC was explaining the way the initial doses close together act as a priming dose and the third shot later on acts as a booster, and looks to provide a much stronger immune response, which could allow it to last longer. 
 

‘In a separate interview Thursday on NBC's "TODAY," she cited other vaccines, like for hepatitis B, that require two primer shots, followed by a booster. She said scientists think the Covid vaccine may similarly provide long-term protection after three doses.

"We know we need a boost now and we will continue to follow the science, but I don't think it's a given that we will be doing this continuously," Walensky said on "TODAY."’

 

Im sure people will say this means they changed their mind if it turns out we need more than this third one, but she clearly said we will need to follow the science to see what happens (and I say that as someone who has been frequently frustrated by the way Walensky messages things)  

 

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