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The Vaccine Thread


JennyD

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6 minutes ago, frogger said:

I guess what I'm wondering is why Alabama has a vaccination rates in the 30's if only 19.2% are vaccine hesitant. It doesn't pass the sniff test. I need to read it more carefully but I'm off to teach my kids Algebra. I realize there are a lot of variables. Are they counting ineligible kids in the vaccination rates? I'm sure there are more kids in rural areas than the a highrise studio in NY for example but it is hard for me to make the case that 20% hesitancy and 35% currently vaccinated add up in any meaningful way.  

I didn't see the whole article, just the abstract, but I wonder if they excluded people who are totally opposed from the hesitant group. 

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47 minutes ago, KSera said:

This study might be proof that Facebook surveys on things like this really don’t give good data, I’m thinking. I went looking at it because you said they list Native Americans as one of the top three most hesitant groups, which is at direct odds with what I’ve read. Despite obstacles, Native Americans have the nation’s highest COVID-19 vaccination rate (just realized this is a brand new article, and I’ve been reading the same thing for months, so it hasn’t changed). 

If they have an error this big, I expect it might the rest of their data as well. 
 

I’m actually formulating a research idea that even a high school student could do. It would be possible to run some surveys on FB about things that there are good, peer reviewed studies about, and then compare FB data to the peer reviewed data. Would be interesting. 

Yes,  this is another thing that doesn't pass the sniff test. The localities with the highest native populations in my state are the ones with the highest vaccination rates. The big city has the second highest rate and it is the highly white suburbs that have the lowest rate. That is just the state I know best. I have seen what appears reservation areas in the lower 48, highly vaccinated but I know the Geo demographics less in other states. Still, it seems fishy.

Edited by frogger
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4 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

NY has plenty of kids, as far as I know. 

I meant NYC. I was just reaching for variables. Leaving off the C makes a big difference but you need a lot of money to fit a Duggar family into a NYC condo. 

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1 minute ago, frogger said:

I meant NYC. I was just reaching for variables. Leaving off the C makes a big difference but you need a lot of money to fit a Duggar family into a NYC condo. 

Most people in NYC aren't in Manhattan. 20% of the population here is under 18. 

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5 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

Most people in NYC aren't in Manhattan. 20% of the population here is under 18. 

Yeah, I was just reaching. I'm off. The point is, where the heck is the other 45% of Alabamans that aren't getting vaccinated.

 

Maybe you could tell me?

Then tell me why a 7% difference in vaccine hesitancy makes such a huge difference in vaccination rates between the Northeast and the South.

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12 minutes ago, kbutton said:

I didn't see the whole article, just the abstract, but I wonder if they excluded people who are totally opposed from the hesitant group. 

That could be. Maybe instead of talking about it I should go read the thing. 😂 But I don't have time so back to work. 

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One of my friends, who has a lot of health issues and a lot of hesitancy to trust the medical profession due to providers not listening and not treating appropriately, is getting the vaccine this morning.  I can understand her reasons for hesitance, but she's decided the risk is too high and that her teen daughter needs more freedom and flexibility. (Her teen is fully vaccinated, and during the summer, felt comfortable seeing friends, but with Delta, doesn't feel comfortable doing so without mom being vaccinated). I am seeing a lot of vaccine reluctant folks making a similar decision-they're mostly women with chronic medical conditions who have gotten more relief in the past from natural remedies and dietary changes than from allopathic medication. 

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23 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

NY has plenty of kids, as far as I know. 

I just was curious after you made this statement because I had an old recollection of the Northeast not having as many kids. It wasn't something I really knew one way or the other so I found a handy CDC map just to ease my curiosity. Conversation can go back to vaccines.

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/cdc-states-with-highest-birth-rates-2014-5

 

 

 

 

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Third Covid Dose Isn't a Booster, Says Fmr. Biden Advisor (msn.com)

 

US allows extra COVID vaccine doses for some. Now what? (msn.com)

WHO QUALIFIES?

Roughly 7 million American adults are classified as immune-compromised, but the FDA singled out transplant recipients and others with similar levels of immune suppression. The FDA didn’t spell out exactly who falls into those other categories. But according to the CDC, people with blood cancers, those taking certain cancer chemotherapies, and those taking certain medications such as rituximab for rheumatoid arthritis tend to have especially poor responses to vaccination.

ARE THERE AGE RESTRICTIONS?

For now, the new policy allows a third dose of the Pfizer vaccine for children as young as 12 who also meet the high-risk requirement, but adults only for a third Moderna dose. That's because the Pfizer vaccine currently is the only authorized option for Americans under 18. That could change if Moderna's vaccine eventually is allowed for teens.

WILL I NEED A DOCTOR’S NOTE OR A BLOOD TEST?

The government isn't requiring either — patients will just need to tell the vaccine provider why they're seeking another dose. “We would want to make that as easy as possible,” said Dr. William Schaffner, an infectious diseases expert at Vanderbilt University.

WHAT WILL A THIRD DOSE COST?

Shots given under FDA’s emergency use authorization are free.

IS MIX-AND-MATCH ALLOWED?

The government encourages the third dose to be the same as the first two, but doesn't mandate it.

Edited by mommyoffive
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3 hours ago, frogger said:

Yes,  this is another thing that doesn't pass the sniff test. The localities with the highest native populations in my state are the ones with the highest vaccination rates. The big city has the second highest rate and it is the highly white suburbs that have the lowest rate. That is just the state I know best. I have seen what appears reservation areas in the lower 48, highly vaccinated but I know the Geo demographics less in other states. Still, it seems fishy.

I noticed that too. I've read that the Navajo Nation is almost 100% vaccinated. Here in AZ, you can see the impact of high rates of NA vaccination when you look at rates by county. 

I've also been told that there are very high rates of vaccination amongst the Native Americans in Oklahoma (I'm from there so keep up) which is a reason why the OK vaccination rate is not as terrible as that of the deep south states. 

Usually you would expect to see lower utilization of a preventative measures in the NA population because they are medically underserved. Wasn't there a special initiative from the Biden administration to sent vaccines directly to tribes? 

I found this article from last month. 

Quote

The tracker, “Percent of People Receiving COVID-19 Vaccine by Race/Ethnicity and Date Reported to CDC, United States,” showed that as of July 6, American Indians and Alaska Natives have the highest vaccination rate in the country, with 45.5% having received at least one dose and 39.1% fully vaccinated. 

American Indians have the highest Covid vaccination rate in the US

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3 minutes ago, Ordinary Shoes said:

I noticed that too. I've read that the Navajo Nation is almost 100% vaccinated. Here in AZ, you can see the impact of high rates of NA vaccination when you look at rates by county. 

I've also been told that there are very high rates of vaccination amongst the Native Americans in Oklahoma (I'm from there so keep up) which is a reason why the OK vaccination rate is not as terrible as that of the deep south states. 

Usually you would expect to see lower utilization of a preventative measures in the NA population because they are medically underserved. Wasn't there a special initiative from the Biden administration to sent vaccines directly to tribes? 

I found this article from last month. 

American Indians have the highest Covid vaccination rate in the US

Trump set aside special shipments for Native Americans before Biden was even in office. I actually received my first dose from a Native Hospital because they opened to the general public due to having many doses needing used.

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19 minutes ago, frogger said:

Trump set aside special shipments for Native Americans before Biden was even in office. I actually received my first dose from a Native Hospital because they opened to the general public due to having many doses needing used.

Actually, that's an interesting point in all this: whatever you might say about Trump's response to COVID (and I have a lot to say about it, lol), he was actually all in on the vaccine before people decided to make "vaccine resistance" political. Operation Warp Speed and all that... 

Edited by Not_a_Number
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18 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

Actually, that's an interesting point in all this: whatever you might say about Trump's response to COVID (and I have a lot to say about it, lol), he was actually all in on the vaccine before people decided to make "vaccine resistance" political. Operation Warp Speed and all that... 

 It was actually one of the things I thought he did well. From pre-funding doses to making sure that we didn't put all our eggs in one basket. It was definitely something I think he did right and I disagreed with a lot of what he did!

 

I think there is just a big overlap of his voters and people who don't like change or new things. They are afraid of the gov't, of immigrants, of vaccines, or climate rules.  It isn't all of them by a long shot but it is a sizable segment probably due to his campaign promise to, "Make America Great Again" which seems to hearken back to the "Good Old Days." Older Americans who have rose colored glasses of the past or are afraid of the changing world are not going to like having to do things they have never done like wear masks or listen to the gov't tell them where or when they can go places and they certainly are going to be skeptical of brand new drugs but a slogan like that would drag those people into the party.  It left a lot of the older Republicans scratching their heads and wondering what happened to their party. 

 

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39 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

Actually, that's an interesting point in all this: whatever you might say about Trump's response to COVID (and I have a lot to say about it, lol), he was actually all in on the vaccine before people decided to make "vaccine resistance" political. Operation Warp Speed and all that... 

Yeah, it could have worked out so different than it did. Operation Warp Speed accomplished what it needed to, but was then undermined by people both spreading vaccine misinformation and downplaying the seriousness of Covid. I wish we could rewind and have people handle it like grown ups 😢

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14 minutes ago, kbutton said:

I found the last chart especially interesting, about the "definitely not" group being most likely to think Covid won't make them very sick (and to mistakenly believe the vaccine is higher risk than the disease). I've had that sense that people who are anti-vax disproportionately believe they would have a superior response to contracting Covid, and this bears that out (only 8% of those who say they definitely won't get vaccinated are worried that Covid could make them seriously ill--it reminds me somehow of that statistic about the number of people who believe they are above average). I've heard that here and have almost asked several times--for people who feel certain they're not at risk of being seriously ill from Covid, why?

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3 minutes ago, KSera said:

I found the last chart especially interesting, about the "definitely not" group being most likely to think Covid won't make them very sick (and to mistakenly believe the vaccine is higher risk than the disease). I've had that sense that people who are anti-vax disproportionately believe they would have a superior response to contracting Covid, and this bears that out (only 8% of those who say they definitely won't get vaccinated are worried that Covid could make them seriously ill--it reminds me somehow of that statistic about the number of people who believe they are above average). I've heard that here and have almost asked several times--for people who feel certain they're not at risk of being seriously ill from Covid, why?

I think they made the chart entirely from people in my county. Maybe my former church, lol!!! 

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13 minutes ago, KSera said:

I've heard that here and have almost asked several times--for people who feel certain they're not at risk of being seriously ill from Covid, why?

I just wanted to add, this gets even more reinforced by the fact that a lot of people who feel this way will end up being correct, because that’s the way luck will have it. But not because there was any special clairvoyance they had that allowed them to know they wouldn’t get sick. Most of the unvaccinated people in the hospital didn’t think they would get sick either. If someone feel certain they will not roll a three, and then they don’t that’s because they had a five in six chance they weren’t going to roll a three, not because they’re just so good and accurate at predicting their dice rolls. They still had a one in six chance of getting a three and got lucky.

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12 hours ago, KSera said:

I just wanted to add, this gets even more reinforced by the fact that a lot of people who feel this way will end up being correct, because that’s the way luck will have it. But not because there was any special clairvoyance they had that allowed them to know they wouldn’t get sick. Most of the unvaccinated people in the hospital didn’t think they would get sick either. If someone feel certain they will not roll a three, and then they don’t that’s because they had a five in six chance they weren’t going to roll a three, not because they’re just so good and accurate at predicting their dice rolls. They still had a one in six chance of getting a three and got lucky.

Yes! And from what I've seen the loudest voices shouting this are not even pictures of health. It blows my mind. I see people that have numerous health issues talking about how they trust their body and their immune system. I think the odds are in my favor if I catch Covid but I certainly wouldn't say that is a certainty. That is why I got the vaccine to help my odds. I don't understand the arrogance- even more so for the people that take drugs/medication for other things, why don't they just let their bodies handle that on their own. 

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Scotland now has 90 percent of adults having had a first jab and 77 percent second. J and J is not available and illicit third jabs aren't possible, so the numbers are pretty straightforward. 18-29 year olds currently have the lowest uptake at 74/32 percent - they became eligible last so many have to wait for their 12/8 weeks.

16-18 year olds are also now being vaccinated.

Eta boosters will be offered to over fifties and those with higher medical risk from September,  we are told. Probably Pfizer for all.

Edited by Laura Corin
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3 hours ago, Soror said:

Yes! And from what I've seen the loudest voices shouting this are not even pictures of health. It blows my mind. I see people that have numerous health issues talking about how they trust their body and their immune system. I think the odds are in my favor if I catch Covid but I certainly wouldn't say that is a certainty. That is why I got the vaccine to help my odds. I don't understand the arrogance- even more so for the people that take drugs/medication for other things, why don't they just let their bodies handle that on their own.

It's a staggering level of denial!

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1 hour ago, mommyoffive said:

I’ve seen a number of things suggesting this research and the reporting based on it are misleading. I’m drive-by posting so can’t to get links now, but here’s a quick one to a trusted fact checking site about this: No, a Study Didn’t Find That ‘the Most Highly-Educated Americans Are Also the Most Vaccine-Hesitant’

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2 minutes ago, Innisfree said:

I mean... Education level was apparently self-reported here. So, I'm not sure how much I trust the information.

The survey also listed Native Americans as one of the top most vaccine hesitant groups, when objective numbers show that Native Americans are the most highly vaccinated group in the United States. So I think they have a sampling problem here. 

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About high education and vaccine hesitancy - it depends on what you mean by hesitant.

I mean, I'm not gonna go for every jab, pill, etc. that is "recommended."  I know how money works and how "science," "journalism," and politics are often used to make certain people richer, often at the expense of others.

I am also reasonably able to sift through a lot of published "information" and decide when there's enough actual evidence to satisfy the rational part of my mind.

That said, it is possible the PhD statement was complete hogwash.  🤷‍♂️

...

And as for the Native American statements - I also wonder where that is coming from.  Where I live, there is either no difference or NAs are more likely to get the jab.

It makes you wonder how many other "statistics" are being pulled right out of somebody's nether regions.

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50 minutes ago, SKL said:

About high education and vaccine hesitancy - it depends on what you mean by hesitant.

For these particular surveys, the questions have to do specifically with the Covid19 vaccine. 

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I'm disappointed to see that "study" in news.  If you remove the phd's the vaccine hesitancy goes down with increasing education.  Where are the MD's?  In the "professional degree" category?  If they had lumped all advanced degrees together (masters, professional, phd) it would look like the lowest category of vaccine hesitancy.  This is like that survey that gave vs one crazy high number of "health care workers" refusing the vaccine but they were including custodial, cafeteria, computer science workers, etc who were employed in the heath care industry but had no medical training.

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9 hours ago, KSera said:

The survey also listed Native Americans as one of the top most vaccine hesitant groups, when objective numbers show that Native Americans are the most highly vaccinated group in the United States. So I think they have a sampling problem here. 

Yep. This is a nonsense study. It’s going to go in textbooks as an example of why “sample size” is NOT the most important thing.

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On 8/12/2021 at 11:41 AM, Syllieann said:

Does anyone know the Modern a dose that made it to phase 2/3 for 5-11 year olds?  I'm wondering if it's higher than the adult Pfizer dose?

NM, found it, 50 micrograms.  That certainly makes it tempting to lie about how old your 11 year old is to get vaccinated before school starts.   https://madison.com/wsj/news/local/health-med-fit/moderna-covid-19-vaccine-study-for-children-under-12-starting-at-uw-health/article_47103605-d395-55a2-9785-1c01c470c125.html

Just saw on the news that they are starting to give shots for this trial in Madison tomorrow.

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16 minutes ago, mommyoffive said:

Just saw on the news that they are starting to give shots for this trial in Madison tomorrow.

I looked into taking dd10, but I don't think I can go 14 months without knowing if she got the vaccine or the placebo.  Crossing my fingers Pfizer is available soon.

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3 minutes ago, Syllieann said:

I looked into taking dd10, but I don't think I can go 14 months without knowing if she got the vaccine or the placebo.  Crossing my fingers Pfizer is available soon.

I wonder if it’s really 14 months until a vaccine.

It’s also 3/4 vaccine, it looks like. So chances of not getting a placebo are high.

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18 minutes ago, Syllieann said:

I looked into taking dd10, but I don't think I can go 14 months without knowing if she got the vaccine or the placebo.  Crossing my fingers Pfizer is available soon.

You can drop out anytime.

From what I have heard of parents who have kids in trials on other boards that if Pfizer would to be approved they would let you know what group you were in.  And maybe just give you the real vaccine if you didn't have one already.

I will try and find what they posted about it.

 

 

Ok I found the post about it on another board.  Not sure if I can post it here. Let me know if you want the link to that.

Edited by mommyoffive
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3 minutes ago, mommyoffive said:

You can drop out anytime.

From what I have heard of parents who have kids in trials on other boards that if Pfizer would to be approved they would let you know what group you were in.  And maybe just give you the real vaccine if you didn't have one already.

I will try and find what they posted about it.

 

I filled not the application, but they think I'm too far away.  I went to college there and came home every weekend-shows what they know.

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8 minutes ago, Syllieann said:

I filled not the application, but they think I'm too far away.  I went to college there and came home every weekend-shows what they know.

 

And sorry, that really stinks. 

Edited by mommyoffive
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18 minutes ago, Faith-manor said:

One thing that occurs to me is that they vaccinated rapidly and very early so waning immunity in the face of delta could possibly account for it. They may need to do boosters. 

And if boosters are needed this fast -- the third world has no chance of getting vaccinated to curb the spread.

 

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