When do you let your kids...

[Ema]

Walk to the park, or run errands for you around town? I grew up on a farm and have NO idea at what age to let my kids go places without me in town. We live in a, quiet small (780 people) town. DH is a pastor, so most everyone knows who we are, though I probably only know 1/3 by name, 2/3 by sight. Our park is not far, though there is one busy-ish street to cross. We have a local grocery store and library three blocks away, but there are two “busy” streets to cross. I know they’d do fine watching for cars, but I just don’t at what point do I let my DD9.5 (raising 4th grader, to use convention terms) walk with DD7.5 to the grocery store to get milk for me? Or go check out books from the library. Or take their 4.5 yr o,d brother to the park? We aren’t 100% free-range parents, but do lean more towards that. What do you do?

[Jean in Newcastle]

It’s child dependent. Around 8 my kids had more freedom but it was probably 10 before they crossed a busy street without me. And that was at a light with a clearly marked crosswalk. 

[Scarlett]

4 minutes ago, Ema said:

Walk to the park, or run errands for you around town? I grew up on a farm and have NO idea at what age to let my kids go places without me in town. We live in a, quiet small (780 people) town. DH is a pastor, so most everyone knows who we are, though I probably only know 1/3 by name, 2/3 by sight. Our park is not far, though there is one busy-ish street to cross. We have a local grocery store and library three blocks away, but there are two “busy” streets to cross. I know they’d do fine watching for cars, but I just don’t at what point do I let my DD9.5 (raising 4th grader, to use convention terms) walk with DD7.5 to the grocery store to get milk for me? Or go check out books from the library. Or take their 4.5 yr o,d brother to the park? We aren’t 100% free-range parents, but do lean more towards that. What do you do?

That is still too young IMO.  Especially to have the two youngers in her care.  

[Janeway]

It is child dependent. But I would let a boy go at 9 yrs old. ONLY reason I would not let a girl go at 9 maybe is because I am worried about child predators. I let my 9 and 7 yr old go to the park and take their 4 yr old little brother with them. The park is across the street here and then maybe 100 yards down the sidewalk. It is not a busy street though. I was walking to and from school at 9 and it did involve a busy-ish street, no crossing guards.

Edited June 28, 2019 by Janeway

[Pen]

IMO 4.5 too young

9.5 probably old enough (7.5 possibly old enough) depending on person , judgement, eyesight etc.  and how busy the road is.     I’d probably have it start dc with telling me what to do as dc leads process with me there.  

Then similar with me following a bit behind.

then if all has gone well solo 

[mumto2]

Raised my kids in a slightly larger village in the U.K with the stores being on our side of the street and the library the other.  Starting at about that age I would send them on emergency grocery runs.....bring home 1 item.  They were told to go the long way which meant they were watched by people most of the way.  The short way involves cutting through an area without houses.  I normally sent one at a time on errands just because I thought my kids would be less distractible on their own and not streets to cross with any traffic.  

Because of the streets I think the older two could go together now but I wouldn’t add the younger to the mix.  That would add confusion and responsibility that the first trips don’t need.

[Ema]

Yeah, I don’t feel quite ready, though I think having her younger sister would actually make her feel better. Dd 9 is more timid than Dd7 and would probably want her company. I was thinking more like next summer. But then I was at the park with the kids and a PS 2nd graded who lives 2 blocks away brought her 4 year old brother. Too young, IMO, but I could so easily be that mom who never lets her kids go anywhere on their own just by default since we get SO many books from the library that they could not carry them, and since when I go to the grocery store I never really know what I am looking for (VERY small, struggling, never know what produce they will have). 

[sweet2ndchance]

I lean toward free range parenting also. My kids were 10 and 11yo when I let them walk about a block and a half to the middle school by themselves with their friends. They had to cross a 3 lane road but there was a crosswalk and a crossing guard. 

I'd say around 12 -13yo I let them run in the store with me sitting in the car outside. We never had a store close enough for them to walk by themselves. That is also the age I let them go inside to pay for gas while I pumped when we had to pay cash instead of a card at the pump.

Where we live now in a rural area and my kids had to walk to the end of our 900 foot dirt driveway to the blacktop road to catch the bus for school. My older three were in high school/late middle school and my younger two were in early elementary. I had the older ones watch the younger ones at the bus stop but oldest ds had a cell phone and was instructed to call me if the little two were not listening about staying out of the road and being safe. If I had to come get the little ones from the bus stop and take them to school myself, they lost the privilege of getting to walk to the bus stop with the big kids which was a huge deal to them. I could see the bus stop from the kitchen window of the house FWIW.

It is completely child dependent though. My general rule though, I wouldn't trust a 9.5yo to watch two younger siblings outside my home. One sibling maybe if they were mature enough and wanted to but not both of them. If the 9.5yo and 7.5yo worked well together and they could both be trusted to keep an eye on a 4.5yo I might give them a little more independence but it would be really situation dependent. I probably wouldn't let them cross more than a residential street together without me.

[ktgrok]

For me it depends how busy is busy, regarding the street, and if there is a light, cross walk, etc etc. Minus the street issue I have no problems with the 9 and 7 year old walking to the store, etc. I might be more cautious about the park, just because they would be unsupervised for a longer time period. At 10 and 8, yes, I'd be okay with it. 

I was riding my bike a mile to school in 1st grade by myself, to the store by 5th grade, etc. 

Edited June 28, 2019 by Ktgrok

[Katy]

I agree it would depend on the individual child. In a town that small I might let a 9.5 year old or a 10 year old go for milk alone, but definitely not with siblings.  Why don't you do a trial run, where you are walking behind with the younger kids just in case.  If kiddo handles everything fine and doesn't need your help with anything. you'll feel more comfortable letting him go alone. If not you can try again, or even wait a few months before you try again.

I probably wouldn't let a kid under 12 accompany a younger sibling to the store alone, mostly because 12 is the minimum age for babysitter certification.

[Sherry in OH]

I let mine go one bike rides and to the park together starting at 10 and 8.   We didn't live within walking distance of the library at that time, but I sometimes sent the oldest in to return books or pick up holds while I waited in the car.  

In our current location, I do not hesitate to send my 13 year old alone or with his 11 year old brother.  They frequently walk or ride bike downtown to the ice cream shop or snow cone truck.   I do ask that they let me know where they are going and that they take a phone with them.

[Pen]

I think another issue is the drivers where you are.  If the roads are busy with local people going at conservative speed to local places, versus 55mph traffic passing through your town along  route of a state highway, for example

and certainly would make a difference if there’s a traffic stop sign , crosswalk or even a signal versus having to dodge traffic to get across.  

I think it takes quite a lot of EF to safely dodge traffic.  

[Storygirl]

I tend to err on the side of being cautious, rather than free range.

In addition to the thoughts already posted by others, I think it depends upon how trustworthy and mature the children are. Will they follow the guidelines and rules you give them? Will they listen to each other -- if one is making a poor choice, will he or she listen to the other sibling?

Certain of my children will break rules when I am not looking, so I would not expect a sibling to be able to keep them on track. Certain of my children are kind of oblivious to things happening around them and are less likely to make good decisions about safety. Certain of my children are easily led astray, and if they see others doing something, they will follow along, even if they know I would not allow that, if I were there. Certain of my children are rule followers and have good sense on their own, but would want to do their own socializing and not tend to keep an eye on their younger siblings.

Before we moved, we lived in a suburban neighborhood next to a park, and there was a walking path to the park from the end of our street. My neighbor with same-aged children let her kids go to the park without adult supervision at a younger age than I let mine. We had different comfort levels, because our children were different from each other. My kids were fifth grade and up, I think, before I would let them go. But I didn't want them to go unless they were together in pairs, at least (buddy system), and once I paired my kids together, I had to consider how they would fare when they were together. I just couldn't trust that it would go well until they were on the older end.

I think once you decide to do it, make sure that they know what to do if something unexpectedly goes wrong. You can do some role play.

 

[frogger]

This depends so much on your particular kids and your neighborhood and what will make your neighbors call cps if you are living in an overprotective busybody neighborhood.  I tend to start giving more freedom to get places on their own about 10-12. 

[gstharr]

Depends a lot on your area as well.  When I was that age I walked several miles, or rode a bike maybe tens miles,  to wherever I wanted to go.   Now, I don't allow the new 9th grader to walk much anywhere., and certainly not where he has to cross a busy intersection.  Heck, I rarely walk across a busy intersection.  A hit/run fatality seems to happen daily in Los Angeles County. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

3 hours ago, Pen said:

IMO 4.5 too young

9.5 probably old enough (7.5 possibly old enough) depending on person , judgement, eyesight etc.  and how busy the road is.     I’d probably have it start dc with telling me what to do as dc leads process with me there.  

Then similar with me following a bit behind.

then if all has gone well solo 

I did a similar scaffolded approach.  At 8 years old both of my kids were doing half of my grocery shopping (I ripped the list in half and they took their own cart to fill) but I was in the same store.  If there was any problem, I was right there to consult.  My kids never caused a problem but a manager did confront my son once.  He got an earful from me and ended up giving a tearful boy a free football.  So provided that there are no hazards (and a busy road would give me pause), my biggest concern is busy-bodies. 

[Pen]

Aside from roads issue, I’d probably start with library of those 3 choices, likely alerting librarian in advance.  

Then maybe grocery, alerting manager in advance.  And probably with something straightforward like a single quart of your usual brand of milk.  Or 1 qt ice cream.  Or a roll of TP.  Nothing hard to choose or fragile like vegetables or eggs or anything in glass or especially heavy. 

 

[Pen]

Also, things unexpected can happen. When we were at that stage,  I was thinking of bike accidents (as dc were on bikes), cars and trucks as primary dangers, human predators next, wildlife (in rural area where we live) nex.  

actual problem dc encountered was a biting dog, which I hadn’t been thinking about.

[teachermom2834]

I remember as a nine year old walking several blocks along a busy road, crossing that road, and going swimming alone at a public pool. At ten I was riding a city bus from our neighborhood to downtown and going to the large city public library alone. And I remember going downtown with my dad and sitting at the library all day while he worked. A big urban public library with homeless folks and everything. Those were great days. 

Our current small town librarian questioned my then 13 yo ds about being in the library unsupervised and I always expect to be scolded when I leave my 11 yo dd in the children’s library while I run to the bathroom. If a child under say 15 is seen walking anywhere alone it is very strange and people get concerned.

I am glad to see so many of you can allow your children to learn these skills. It is so out of the norm where I am. It is hard to develop any kind of street smarts when you are not allowed any freedom until you can drive. 

I attended a dance recital at a community college in suburbia. While waiting in line my 11 yo dd wanted to go out to the car and get a book. I allowed her to go and could see her about 90% of the way. The looks and comments were so judgemental. 

My brother in law offered to walk her out. We had been discussing my oldest kids off at college so I made some comment to the effect of letting them loose in the parking lot is a step on the way to letting them go away to college. 

Busybodies are a big worry. I absolutely would not have allowed my children to do the things being discussed in this thread and I regret it. 

Edited June 28, 2019 by teachermom2834

[barnwife]

Well, back in the day, I walked to school in kindergarten. There was a busy road, but I knew I had to cross it at the intersection with the crossing guard. It was about 6 blocks. In second grade, I would take our toddler neighbor (with his mom's permission) to the park to play. I'd plop him in the stroller and off we go. (There were a couple parks within a couple blocks of our houses.)

That being said, my own kids struggle with crossing streets. However, we live in the country, so they don't have many chances! We drive everywhere and park in lots. I've actually recently become more intentional about parking places where we will have to cross streets to let them practice. I mean, our oldest is almost 9, so this is a skill that he should have.

So it's very much child and neighborhood dependent. If the busy-ish streets have lights for crossing, I'd let the older ones try it probably and see how it goes. I may even let them take the younger to the park, if the 4.5 yo is good at obeying them.

[Tanaqui]

I let the kids go around the corner and down a block to the corner store by the time they were six or seven. By the time the oldest was 10 (5th grade) and the younger one was 8 (third) I let them walk to school alone with a few strict rules - they had to stay together until the first kid's school, and the second one was ONLY allowed to cross the two busy streets WITH THE CROSSING GUARD, never alone, no matter what, and the crossing guards both promised to tell me if the kids ever violated that rule. Breaking it even once was grounds for that privilege being revoked, immediately. It's about a 10 minute walk to the further away school. Due to the second school letting out earlier I picked E up from school that year, but a lot of kids at that school were picked up by siblings/cousins/neighbors in middle school or only in the fourth or fifth grade.

The year after that they went into Manhattan together-alone for dance class, and the older one was allowed to travel alone in the city to book club as well. That's the same age I was allowed to come home from school, call my mother at work, and pop into the city alone as well. Some of the older kid's classmates went to middle school in Manhattan, and traveled alone to school (or in a carefully managed group that had no adult supervision but was expected to remain together).

I never sent them to the grocery store, but that's because they hate going to the grocery store. I did let them stay home while I went by the age of six or seven - that's a seven minute walk from my house, and if I timed it right a trip took exactly 45 minutes, start to finish.

[Terabith]

Yeah, so much is child/ street/ neighborhood dependent.  If the older two are trustworthy with traffic, I'd probably be cool with allowing them to go to the store or the library, especially if they had a phone or some way to contact me.  

Being responsible for the younger sibling at the park feels different.  I'd probably allow the two older ones to play at the park, but I probably wouldn't allow the younger one to go until the oldest is closer to 11 or 12.  

[mom2scouts]

2 hours ago, teachermom2834 said:

I remember as a nine year old walking several blocks along a busy road, crossing that road, and going swimming alone at a public pool. At ten I was riding a city bus from our neighborhood to downtown and going to the large city public library alone. And I remember going downtown with my dad and sitting at the library all day while he worked. A big urban public library with homeless folks and everything. Those were great days. 

Our current small town librarian questioned my then 13 yo ds about being in the library unsupervised and I always expect to be scolded when I leave my 11 yo dd in the children’s library while I run to the bathroom. If a child under say 15 is seen walking anywhere alone it is very strange and people get concerned.

 

Our library's written policy allows children over 10 to left at the library for up to three hours and anyone over 12 to be able to use the library independently. Even 7-10 year olds are allowed to be left unattended in the children's area as long as a parent is in the building and they aren't causing trouble. Eleven and thirteen year olds are questioned in your library? That's ridiculous!

[Pen]

5 minutes ago, mom2scouts said:

Our library's written policy allows children over 10 to left at the library for up to three hours and anyone over 12 to be able to use the library independently. Even 7-10 year olds are allowed to be left unattended in the children's area as long as a parent is in the building and they aren't causing trouble. Eleven and thirteen year olds are questioned in your library? That's ridiculous!

 

Yikes!  OP, guess you better check rules for your own local library.

 

i just found:

“Children under 10 years of age must be accompanied by an adult/caregiver at all times.*This means the adult/caregiver must supervise the child during the entire library visit by keeping them within their line of sight. If a child under 10 years of age is unattended and an adult/responsible caregiver cannot be located within 5 minutes, library staff will call the Beaverton Police Department.”

hard to use the bathroom with that rule!

 

however another library in “our area” does often have unaccompanied little kids.  And kid library cards have stickers if parent allows internet use so librarians know that without parents being around.  

 

[Pen]

Our libraries have various rules restricting adults from the kids’ areas.  Possibly relevant.  And the kid friendly library is one story with 2/3 of the space devoted to children and teens.  

 

[mom2scouts]

20 minutes ago, Pen said:

Our libraries have various rules restricting adults from the kids’ areas.  Possibly relevant.  And the kid friendly library is one story with 2/3 of the space devoted to children and teens.  

 

I hate these rules that restrict adults from children's areas and I wonder if it's even legal in a public library. I often go to the library myself and get books for dd and for school from the children's section of the library. I can think of lots of reasons that adults might want to be our children's areas without kids (teachers, homeschoolers, babysitters, parents, adults who enjoy YA books or graphic novels, someone looking for simple craft or holiday books).

[fairfarmhand]

1 hour ago, mom2scouts said:

I hate these rules that restrict adults from children's areas and I wonder if it's even legal in a public library. I often go to the library myself and get books for dd and for school from the children's section of the library. I can think of lots of reasons that adults might want to be our children's areas without kids (teachers, homeschoolers, babysitters, parents, adults who enjoy YA books or graphic novels, someone looking for simple craft or holiday books).

Sounds like a recipe for bullies. I get the why but I think it’s rather short sighted. 

Our library is 2 blocks from the middle school. Many middle schoolers walk from the school to the library where their parents pick them up 10-30 minutes after school is released. We avoid the library at these times and he librarians dislike it too. Many kids are well behaved but many others are not.

[theelfqueen]

With the exception of picking up a specific item - adults and younger children are not allowed in the teen area of our library, but as far as I know there are no similar restrictions on the children's section. 

[Farrar]

I let my kids walk down the block to the park by age 6 or so. But there were no streets to cross. I also let them walk to the store and there were some busy streets to cross - but with good crosswalk signs - by age 9. I'm very free range overall, but it definitely depends on the kid, the neighborhood, etc., just like everyone is saying. I do think when you have a neurotypical kid, they should be equipped to cross a street and navigate their own neighborhood, even a slightly difficult one, by age 10 or 11 at the eldest, and for most sooner. But when you throw in younger siblings... it really is kid dependent, even for tweens and younger teens. 

[SKL]

9.5 & 7.5 are old enough to go together.  They may or may not be mature enough to go alone.  I would try short errands such as sending them down the street to store A when you are at store B.  If that goes well, then expand their territory.

The 4.5 - it depends on how well he cooperates with his siblings.

[KungFuPanda]

On 6/28/2019 at 11:19 AM, Janeway said:

It is child dependent. But I would let a boy go at 9 yrs old. ONLY reason I would not let a girl go at 9 maybe is because I am worried about child predators. 

I do not understand this at all. What did I miss?

[J-rap]

If it's generally a safe community and your children are comfortable, I'd let the older two go together to the library, or get a few things at the grocery store.  I'd be strict about them staying together, and about the time limit.  (At least at first.)  We let our kids get milk at a little corner grocery at that age.  They had one "busy" (but not really) street to cross, but that had a stop sign and a cross walk.  Then another block and a half and they were there.  I could actually watch them from our front window almost the entire way.  

I'd be comfortable with them taking the 4.5 year old too, assuming he's cooperative.  

[LMD]

We are pretty rural so no walking to parks or stores here.

We are fairly overprotective. I let my 13 year old go into town (dropped off) with a friend and wander the shops for a few hours. The friend is slightly older and a good influence.

I let my 11 year old run into stores/library etc for me, he's naturally pretty responsible. I would probably let my nearly 9 year old do it too. My 5 year old? No way. He can maybe pay with correct change while I'm there 😄

In what you described, 10+ with similar aged friends or well behaved 8+ sibling I'd probably be okay with, for short amounts of time. They'd need to wear a watch and be responsible enough to check it and leave time enough to walk home. I would not make them responsible for an under 6 year old though.

[Okra]

I lean more to free range parenting.  I would practice walking with the girls this summer.  Many times so you can see how they handle everything.  It they are doing a great job, next summer let them go themselves.

I do not think that a nine/ten year old needs to be responsible for a younger sibling on these outings.  For me taking the youngest sibling to the park would be a big no.  That is just too much responsibility for your oldest.

 

[mom2scouts]

On 6/28/2019 at 11:19 AM, Janeway said:

It is child dependent. But I would let a boy go at 9 yrs old. ONLY reason I would not let a girl go at 9 maybe is because I am worried about child predators.

 

1 hour ago, KungFuPanda said:

I do not understand this at all. What did I miss?

Right? If you're worried about child predators, you should watch your boys. Child predators target boys too.

[Janeway]

21 minutes ago, mom2scouts said:

 

Right? If you're worried about child predators, you should watch your boys. Child predators target boys too.

Maybe it is because my daughter and smaller boy are about 40 pounds so they do not go out without a bigger person with them and my 9 yr old (who is almost 10) is about 100 pounds. I only have one daughter so I will only be able to tell you if it is a gender thing when she reaches 100 pounds. 

[KungFuPanda]

4 minutes ago, Janeway said:

Maybe it is because my daughter and smaller boy are about 40 pounds so they do not go out without a bigger person with them and my 9 yr old (who is almost 10) is about 100 pounds. I only have one daughter so I will only be able to tell you if it is a gender thing when she reaches 100 pounds. 

My daughter is 22.  She “just” hit 100 lbs. you might be waiting a while. 🤣

[Pen]

I think two kids together tend to be safer than one alone.  Distraction of each other would need to be watched for to cross streets safely, but in most other ways it gives an extra person in case of emergency.  Or just safety in numbers.  

[kiwik]

I tried to work towards my kids being a bit more independent but ds10 has some issues (I think ASD) so tended to have misunderstandings with other kids and needed an interpretor.  Ds12 was supposed to go to the shop round the corner at 9 with a note and money to but paracetamol because I was really sick.  He took it onto his head to go to the chemist about 3 km away and rode his scooter into a car.  The owner of the car brought him home and called an ambulance who called the police.  I was out looking for him and panicking.  I didn't let either of them go anywhere for a while. The exception was across the street and round the corner to a friend's house.  They can now go to the corner shop but don't often.  They also go across the road to ride bikes and stay in the car at the supermarket.

[Ema]

On 6/28/2019 at 1:30 PM, Storygirl said:

I tend to err on the side of being cautious, rather than free range.

In addition to the thoughts already posted by others, I think it depends upon how trustworthy and mature the children are. Will they follow the guidelines and rules you give them? Will they listen to each other -- if one is making a poor choice, will he or she listen to the other sibling?

Well, dd7 likes to pretend she is the mother  🤦🏽‍♀️ So she would probably help keep dd9 on track. She has much more just plain common sense than dd9, though dd9’s judgment is much better, Which is why I would feel better about them being together. They are very good at following instructions (when it comes to things like this, that is...school is another issue. Grrr.)  and even though dd7 likes to think she is as old and capable as dd9, when I tell her dd9 is in charge, she does listen.

On 6/28/2019 at 1:45 PM, frogger said:

This depends so much on your particular kids and your neighborhood and what will make your neighbors call cps if you are living in an overprotective busybody neighborhood.  I tend to start giving more freedom to get places on their own about 10-12. 

Goodness, I wasn’t even thinking about CPS. Sigh. Most people recognize us, and know our parenting tactics and that we hs, which makes me think they would be less likely to call CPS, but you never know, do you. 

I think maybe I will start trial runs like many of you suggested. Since the school park is just across a very very quiet street, maybe I will watch them cross the street (little bro in tow) and let them play there alone for a short time and then join them. And let the older two walk a block ahead of me on the way to the store and library (staring shots, can see all the way down). Our librarian is a 91 yr old woman who is a member is a member of the church, so rules aside, she would be fine with the girls there as long as they don’t make a mess but I won’t let them go there alone quite yet. 

The kids have walked to church alone (1/2 block, can see from home) when baby decides to take her nap before church. But I watch them across the not busy street and make sure ds holds dd9’s and (thankfully he does). Also this morning I had another chat with them about safe and un-safe people, who our safe adults are, what to do in certain situations. They are fairly aware, but get a bit confused since they know the people pretty well from church and then I single out three safe families. Just keep teaching, I suppose.

[Ema]

So, another question, what about family members? The kids know grandparents are safe (though they still don’t go anywhere without telling mom and dad), and most immediate family, but dh’s Younger brother is making some pretty poor choices in his life, and since many (most?) cases of molestation have to do with family, we just are more wary about him. I have told the kids to never go anywhere alone with him, but at the same time I don’t want them to think he is a horrible person and be scared of him. My MIL was also pretty ticked at dh when one night we left the kids with her to watch and brother-in-law was there too, and dh told her we didn’t want her to leave the kids alone with him. She was really offended and got defensive. Sigh.

[Pen]

21 minutes ago, Ema said:

Well, dd7 likes to pretend she is the mother  🤦🏽‍♀️ So she would probably help keep dd9 on track. She has much more just plain common sense than dd9, though dd9’s judgment is much better, Which is why I would feel better about them being together. They are very good at following instructions (when it comes to things like this, that is...school is another issue. Grrr.)  and even though dd7 likes to think she is as old and capable as dd9, when I tell her dd9 is in charge, she does listen.

Goodness, I wasn’t even thinking about CPS. Sigh. Most people recognize us, and know our parenting tactics and that we hs, which makes me think they would be less likely to call CPS, but you never know, do you. 

 

You never know. I mean really CPS could be called with regard to anything. 

 However,  In the circumstances you described, I would not be overworried about CPS.  You could even call CPS office in advance of child solo walking places practice .  

21 minutes ago, Ema said:

I think maybe I will start trial runs like many of you suggested. Since the school park is just across a very very quiet street, maybe I will watch them cross the street (little bro in tow) and let them play there alone for a short time and then join them. And let the older two walk a block ahead of me on the way to the store and library (staring shots, can see all the way down).

Sounds good.  

I’d start first with them near you, but them doing the guiding.  I’d have all 3 of them practice as the leader, and having them tell you about looking both ways for traffic, etc. before they solo with you at a distance.  Also practice stopping the others stepping off curb if one sees car the others missed. 

21 minutes ago, Ema said:

Our librarian is a 91 yr old woman who is a member is a member of the church, so rules aside, she would be fine with the girls there as long as they don’t make a mess but I won’t let them go there alone quite yet. 

 

Sounds good.

21 minutes ago, Ema said:

The kids have walked to church alone (1/2 block, can see from home) when baby decides to take her nap before church. But I watch them across the not busy street and make sure ds holds dd9’s and (thankfully he does). Also this morning I had another chat with them about safe and un-safe people, who our safe adults are, what to do in certain situations. They are fairly aware, but get a bit confused since they know the people pretty well from church and then I single out three safe families. Just keep teaching, I suppose.

 

We have had a system of, if a problem, going to known safe people ideally.  Then to people in charge in a place (librarian, store cashier... ) But if there’s an emergency and no one is known, our concept is that the majority of moms (women with child(ren) who seem to be the mom of the child and are acting “normally” ) are safe to ask to make a call or find help. 

We also have used emergency whistle communication (SOS learned, not needed). 

 

[Pen]

36 minutes ago, Ema said:

So, another question, what about family members? The kids know grandparents are safe (though they still don’t go anywhere without telling mom and dad), and most immediate family, but dh’s Younger brother is making some pretty poor choices in his life, and since many (most?) cases of molestation have to do with family, we just are more wary about him. I have told the kids to never go anywhere alone with him, but at the same time I don’t want them to think he is a horrible person and be scared of him. My MIL was also pretty ticked at dh when one night we left the kids with her to watch and brother-in-law was there too, and dh told her we didn’t want her to leave the kids alone with him. She was really offended and got defensive. Sigh.

 

Your rule seems fine.  And your dh seems reasonable not to want kids alone with a sketchy little brother.

”Sketchy” btw is a word my dc picked up from friends . It seemed helpful.  We might not know of any problem with soandso, but avoid anyone who seems “sketchy”.   Or at least avoid going anywhere with them. 

  

Of course sometimes “pillars of the community” turn out to have been milestones or worse. 

Edited June 30, 2019 by Pen
Milestones should be perpetrators

[Farrar]

1 hour ago, Ema said:

So, another question, what about family members? The kids know grandparents are safe (though they still don’t go anywhere without telling mom and dad), and most immediate family, but dh’s Younger brother is making some pretty poor choices in his life, and since many (most?) cases of molestation have to do with family, we just are more wary about him. I have told the kids to never go anywhere alone with him, but at the same time I don’t want them to think he is a horrible person and be scared of him. My MIL was also pretty ticked at dh when one night we left the kids with her to watch and brother-in-law was there too, and dh told her we didn’t want her to leave the kids alone with him. She was really offended and got defensive. Sigh.

Unless there are specific red flags in terms of your BIL's behavior with or relationship to kids or unless those questionable decisions involve heavy drug or alcohol use, I wouldn't personally have this rule. I know many on this board would disagree with me, and I absolutely think we should be aware of the signs of abuse and grooming and should listen to our kids always. But I think we lose something as a society and a family when we're so suspicious that we won't let an uncle be alone with his nieces and nephews.

[SKL]

2 hours ago, Ema said:

So, another question, what about family members? The kids know grandparents are safe (though they still don’t go anywhere without telling mom and dad), and most immediate family, but dh’s Younger brother is making some pretty poor choices in his life, and since many (most?) cases of molestation have to do with family, we just are more wary about him. I have told the kids to never go anywhere alone with him, but at the same time I don’t want them to think he is a horrible person and be scared of him. My MIL was also pretty ticked at dh when one night we left the kids with her to watch and brother-in-law was there too, and dh told her we didn’t want her to leave the kids alone with him. She was really offended and got defensive. Sigh.

I have always told my kids they can never go anywhere "with" anyone that I haven't OKd first.  Then I gave them a very short list of people who are always OK.

I clarified that not going off with anyone means not in their car, house, backyard, or otherwise behind closed doors.

Also they are to stay together unless otherwise directed (I have 2 girls about the same age).

I would make other arrangements rather than leave my young kid alone with a person I wasn't pretty sure of.  I am not a paranoid person, but I have memories that are not pleasant.  There is safety in numbers, but at the same time, it can be hard for kids to tell an adult "no" when an adult suggests something they aren't comfortable with.  Such as "come upstairs and I'll show you xyz."

[Donna]

I allowed my boys to run errands together when they were 10 and 12yo. There were two of them so it felt safer plus we lived in a neighborhood with a little store a short bike ride away with no busy streets to cross. We have not lived in a place where dd could run errands on her own because we moved to the country by the time she was that age.

[rebcoola]

The walking would honestly depend on the streets and your neighborhood culture.  Do you see lots of kids out walking, riding bikes etc alone or would it seem very out of place?  Our kids were allowed to go the neighborhood park at 5 in a group it was not even a block away and you could hear them from our back porch.  At around 8 they could walk .5 mile to the convince store.  Now they go all around us about 2 miles to subway the grocery store or Starbucks I prefer they go together I think that buddies are just smart even for adults.