"But you're not USING it!" Harrumph.

[Chris in VA]

I'm currently irritated and just grouched at dd. She offered our essential oil set and diffuser to her boyfriend. It's not hers. She didn't even ask. 

She just said "Where is..." and told me why she was asking where it is. 

When I said it wasn't hers to give away, all I got was an incredulous, "But you're not using it!" and "You said you hated the smell!" and all of that. 

She's right, I did say that, a few months ago. And I don't really use it. 

But it pisses me off, nonetheless. I want to be asked. I might have said yes to giving it to him, but sheesh. Now I don't want to. 

Why am I so offended? And why is she being so jerky ?

[KrissiK]

You are offended because what she did was disrespectful. I have a kid who is disrespectful in that way all the time. It drives me crazy. I’m sorry. 

[Chris in VA]

It bothers me that she doesn't even see it as disrespect. I don't know how to fix that. She did say, astutely, "This isn't about the diffuser." At least she gets that. 

[Pen]

Well, it sounds illegal to give something that does not belong to one to someone else without permission from the owner. Not merely disrespectful. 

[Scarlett]

10 minutes ago, KrissiK said:

You are offended because what she did was disrespectful. I have a kid who is disrespectful in that way all the time. It drives me crazy. I’m sorry. 

Yep.  A little bit of an entitled mentality going on there.  I see it especially displayed toward moms.  

[Mbelle]

It's easy to take family for granted.  Our kids do share all our stuff and homes for so long that it can be a weird transition realizing it's not all theirs to share.

 

[Pen]

Or a lack of grasping the difference between politely offering a cookie to a guest and giving the guest Mom’s personal items.  

What does the boyfriend want it for?

[Guest]

That would rankle me, too. Almost as much as Pursegate. 

[Chris in VA]

23 minutes ago, Pen said:

Or a lack of grasping the difference between politely offering a cookie to a guest and giving the guest Mom’s personal items.  

What does the boyfriend want it for?

IDK. Essential oils are a "thing." Maybe he wants it for calming or something. Or better sleep. Or...IDK. 

 

[Mimm]

It doesn't really matter what he wants it for. I'd be very annoyed and tell her no, she can't give it away. What if you had plans for it? What if you were going to sell it? Or give it to someone else? Or try to deal with the smell? Or simply keep it till you were ready on your own to get rid of it? OR you simply wanted the opportunity to be generous instead of stolen from. There's a difference.

[fairfarmhand]

Oh my. I could picture my kid doing this. 

Once.

but really, turn it around to her possessions and I think she’ll think of it differently. Especially if you frame it as a sibimg doing something like that.

[poppy]

I haven't used my fancy lacy underwear in a long time, doesn't mean it's OK to give THAT to her boyfriend! Sheesh. Kids.

[Angie in VA]

Now I need to find the Pursegate story!

I would be ticked off too. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

It would not bother me. My kids knew that I am generous and it would make me happy that they were too. (Just sharing our family culture)

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Angie in VA said:

Now I need to find the Pursegate story!

I would be ticked off too. 

Oh, it was long...parts of it got ugly. We ended up talking about window blinds in the end.

synopsis: My dd, who owes me money from study abroad in France and who needs to concentrate on saving for a car to replace her jalopy bought a designer purse because it was on a really good sale. I was not sympathetic to the cause of fancy purses. Particularly by people who owe me four-digit numbers of money. 

If you really want to seek it out, it was recent and was titled, “I’m annoyed by what I view as an unnecessary purchase.” Please don’t revive it, though. Just...ugh. 

[Stacia]

7 hours ago, Pen said:

Or a lack of grasping the difference between politely offering a cookie to a guest and giving the guest Mom’s personal items. 

Makes me think of the time when my kids were young & they had chocolate chip cookies. My mom was at the house & my dd very sweetly asked her if she would like a chocolate chip cookie. My mom said yes (of course)! So dd then turns to her younger brother & said (in an imperious tone), "Give Grandma your cookie." (It's true -- we didn't have any others, just the two that the kids had.) ? Dd is now 20 & we still give her a hard time over that one! Lol. It's family legend now.

1 hour ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

It would not bother me.

Yeah, if it was something I didn't use & didn't really like anyway, I probably wouldn't care either. I would point out to my kid that even though I was agreeing to give it up that she should have asked me first.

[katilac]

9 hours ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

It would not bother me. My kids knew that I am generous and it would make me happy that they were too. (Just sharing our family culture)

 

But her dd isn't being generous, she isn't giving away something she owns or values. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

1 hour ago, katilac said:

 

But her dd isn't being generous, she isn't giving away something she owns or values. 

I understand that is true in white American culture. But my husband’s culture and the culture that I was raised in doesn’t work that way. 

[Sk8ermaiden]

I would be annoyed that she didn't ask. I agree she'd probably feel differently about her own things being given away. 

[Angie in VA]

12 hours ago, Quill said:

Oh, it was long...parts of it got ugly. We ended up talking about window blinds in the end.

 

Thanks, and I'm sorry. Very sorry. I will say this: a dear friend told me that parenting young adults is the hardest season of parenting. I can see it. My SIL, whose oldest is 27, keeps saying, "The first 45 years of parenting are the hardest!" LOL

I see in your signature that your oldest is not yet 25. Mine are still under 25 too. Is it wishful thinking to expect that on my dc's 25th birthdays not only will their frontal lobes be fully formed, but also that they will instantly turn into wise, loving, caring, selfless people? I mean, *I* am not any of those things yet, but I live in hope.

Hugs. 

Edited August 2, 2018 by Angie in VA
Deleted info from the quote out of respect

[rjand6more]

I can see something like that happening in our house.  We have a "stuff is just stuff" philosophy.  And "stuff that's not used is just clutter". Unless I get something as a gift, my kids don't see anything as mine.  I have to continually remind them that my desk is MINE.  All things that land on my desk are permission-only items.

I do like that they have a similar feeling about things in general though. Not useful here, so pass it along.

I would also be upset if a kid gave something away without asking.  I assume you have a loose definition(like we do) that most things are household property.  She will just have to learn to separate herself from your stuff. LOL

[DawnM]

I don't mind sharing things too much, but I do want to teach my kids that it is polite to ask first, AND, don't expect me to replace the item if it is technically yours but you gave it away.  (years ago, my son gave away his gaming headphones and then said he wanted new ones anyway!  Um, with what MONEY were you thinking of buying them, cuz I gave you that set for Christmas and I am not buying new ones!)

While stuff is just stuff (as in, if the house burned down tomorrow, I would just care that my kids were safely out of the house!), it also might be ready to be sold, donated to a better cause, or set aside for future use.  

It is a courtesy to ask first.

 

[PeterPan]

18 hours ago, Chris in VA said:

When I said it wasn't hers to give away, all I got was an incredulous, "But you're not using it!" and "You said you hated the smell!" and all of that.

I guess I'll go against the tide here and say I wouldn't assume she was being disrespectful. If the dc has any other SN or quirks or whatever, it could be that she was trying to be legitimately helpful or generous, that she's actually a very generous and thoughtful person, and that the deficit is in perspective taking. Social thinking deficits would show up like that, as nice people with screwball perspectives on what is appropriate.

Obviously depends on the kid and what you know about her as a whole, but that's what it could be. 

[kbutton]

13 hours ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

It would not bother me. My kids knew that I am generous and it would make me happy that they were too. (Just sharing our family culture)

I would've been the kid to do this, and my mom would have been peeved. But I would be wondering why she was peeved because she's pretty generous in some ways and might do something like that herself. I would be genuinely confused. 

And if my kids did it, I might or might not be peeved because it is my stuff. 

Clear as mud...

Add in the "Well, I'm not using it right now, but I haven't decided what I want to do with it" element, and it gets tricky fast. I wouldn't like having someone act on it before I'd decided what I intended to do with it. 

[JustEm]

13 hours ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

It would not bother me. My kids knew that I am generous and it would make me happy that they were too. (Just sharing our family culture)

 

This is our family culture as well.  But I can completely see how other people would be peeved and feel disrespected by this.  

[unsinkable]

5 hours ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

I understand that is true in white American culture. But my husband’s culture and the culture that I was raised in doesn’t work that way. 

So in Filipino culture and Japanese culture, family members give away household goods without running it by other fami!y members?

[goldberry]

Because moms aren't allowed to have personal property. ?  It's not enough that we gave up our vaginas to these children...and mine never worked the same way again! 

[Farrar]

I'm a little surprised this would be okay in anyone's family culture. Or that any modern culture at all really does this. I mean, in the situation above, I'd have been happy to pass it along and I'd have even considered it a kindness for the other family member to say to their friend, "Oh, you can probably have my mother's," or to conditionally offer it - also totally fine. But to have it disappear one day without a word? How would the other family member not know that I hadn't already offered it to someone else? Or been planning to start using it again at a later date? You're not in my head just because you're in my family. Unless I'd said, "I'm going to give that away," then just taking it seems so rude.

[Jean in Newcastle]

1 hour ago, unsinkable said:

So in Filipino culture and Japanese culture, family members give away household goods without running it by other fami!y members?

In those cultures I have to be careful not to compliment something too highly or I will be given it. 

[Catwoman]

2 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

In those cultures I have to be careful not to compliment something too highly or I will be given it. 

 

Yes, but that’s a different situation from the one in the OP.  Would children and teens in your family give away something that belonged to their parents? 

“Junior, where’s my new laptop?”

”My friend thought it was nice, so I gave it to him.”

Something like that would really be acceptable in your house? I consider myself to be relatively generous, but no one in this house would ever dream of giving away another family member’s possessions without advance permission.

[gardenmom5]

I'd be ticked.  my brother did that when we were moving my mom.  he took things he wanted - that I had given her.  um - no.   and it wasn't that I particularly wanted them - it was the presumption and sense of entitlement.  (he also took things my mother had specifically packed for me and my sister.   I gave him as long as it took me to get to his house to pack them back up.  nothing was packed - he thought I was bluffing. ).

 

the sense of entitlement does need to be dealt with,  because it didn't belong to her and she should have at least asked.

[gardenmom5]

1 hour ago, goldberry said:

Because moms aren't allowed to have personal property. ?  It's not enough that we gave up our vaginas to these children...and mine never worked the same way again! 

and hips.   and abdominal muscles . . . . ..

and then there is the muscle right below my ribs that 2dd used to kick incessantly.  If I cough - it spasms.   she's in her 30's, and is expecting her first child and it still spasms. . . .

[Jean in Newcastle]

3 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

 

Yes, but that’s a different situation from the one in the OP.  Would children and teens in your family give away something that belonged to their parents? 

“Junior, where’s my new laptop?”

”My friend thought it was nice, so I gave it to him.”

Something like that would really be acceptable in your house? I consider myself to be relatively generous, but no one in this house would ever dream of giving away another family member’s possessions without advance permission.

But that’s not the situation either. This was something that the OP doesn’t use and admits to not even liking. So yeah my kids would say “where’s the ___”?  And I would say “in the basement. Why?” And if told that X could use it, I would be delighted that someone who wanted it could use it.  The OP’s daughter might not have asked specifically but she didn’t just take it either.

Obviously, different families even within a culture can have family quirks. But MIL didn’t blink twice when Dh brought home a homeless guy to use the washer and dryer without asking. And gave him extra towels. Mi casa es su casa. 

And we had all sorts of things given to us.  Many we didn’t accept but many times it would have been rude and offended people greatly not to accept  

BTW- the OP’s feelings are valid and how she handles things with her daughter is valid. But my family culture is valid too even if it doesn’t match yours. And other ethnic cultures are also valid. 

[Murphy101]

Nm

Edited August 2, 2018 by Murphy101

[Catwoman]

42 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

But that’s not the situation either. This was something that the OP doesn’t use and admits to not even liking. So yeah my kids would say “where’s the ___”?  And I would say “in the basement. Why?” And if told that X could use it, I would be delighted that someone who wanted it could use it.  The OP’s daughter might not have asked specifically but she didn’t just take it either.

Obviously, different families even within a culture can have family quirks. But MIL didn’t blink twice when Dh brought home a homeless guy to use the washer and dryer without asking. And gave him extra towels. Mi casa es su casa. 

And we had all sorts of things given to us.  Many we didn’t accept but many times it would have been rude and offended people greatly not to accept  

BTW- the OP’s feelings are valid and how she handles things with her daughter is valid. But my family culture is valid too even if it doesn’t match yours. And other ethnic cultures are also valid. 

 

No one suggested that your family culture (or anyone else’s) isn’t valid, and I’m not sure why you seem to be assuming that other people’s families are less generous than others simply because they wouldn’t like the idea of one of their kids offering to give away a parent’s possession without asking — and that does seem to be what happened in the OP. The dd offered the item to the friend before she told her mom about it.

I’m sorry if I misunderstood you, but this response to katilac made it seem as though no permission was necessary and that it was okay for family members to give each other’s things away without asking, and I read it that way because that’s what seemed to be happening in the OP. 

10 hours ago, katilac said:

 

But her dd isn't being generous, she isn't giving away something she owns or values. 

 

8 hours ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

I understand that is true in white American culture. But my husband’s culture and the culture that I was raised in doesn’t work that way. 

 

Edited August 2, 2018 by Catwoman
Edited for weird typo. I blame iPad!

[Katy]

I'd be so ticked I was about to say I'd ground her for trying to steal my things without asking, but then I realized she's an adult. I don't know what I'd do.

[LMD]

You're annoyed because you weren't treated like a person. Dehumanized. You were treated like a 2d image in her mind. An image labelled 'mom' who doesn't actually have her own stuff, thoughts, emotions etc. Mom = a well I can just take and take and take from. 

After the separation from parents stage and kids move to seeing themselves as a separate person from mom, seeing 'mom' as a whole human person separate from them is another matter entirely!

Sorry, that got a little deeper and darker than I anticipated! I remember really hurting my mum's feelings in thoughtless ways. ?

[Pen]

1 hour ago, Catwoman said:

 

Yes, but that’s a different situation from the one in the OP.  Would children and teens in your family give away something that belonged to their parents? 

“Junior, where’s my new laptop?”

”My friend thought it was nice, so I gave it to him.”

Something like that would really be acceptable in your house? I consider myself to be relatively generous, but no one in this house would ever dream of giving away another family member’s possessions without advance permission.

 

And I have been thinking about our dog, how bad I would feel if my Ds gave him away to someone else. And in that case he could even argue that the dog is “his.”  Sort of.  And if he asked the answer would be no.  OTOH, if he told me someone in the neighborhood was very lonely and could we give the person one of our cats, so long as I thought it would be a good home for the cat I would allow it    But, I would want to be asked  

Ds has given away a lot of pencils and a T-shirt in public school without asking, and that seemed fine to me.  (ETA it is possible that I told him in the first place it was okay— that I had gotten a big box of pencils and a 3pack of T-shirts for an art project and to feel free to share if others needed one  )

But I definitely have a line where it becomes not ok. And I am not even totally sure how I would articulate that line. 

Edited August 2, 2018 by Pen

[unsinkable]

1 hour ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

In those cultures I have to be careful not to compliment something too highly or I will be given it. 

This isn't what I asked, though. 

1 hour ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

But that’s not the situation either. This was something that the OP doesn’t use and admits to not even liking. So yeah my kids would say “where’s the ___”?  And I would say “in the basement. Why?” And if told that X could use it, I would be delighted that someone who wanted it could use it.  The OP’s daughter might not have asked specifically but she didn’t just take it either.

Obviously, different families even within a culture can have family quirks. But MIL didn’t blink twice when Dh brought home a homeless guy to use the washer and dryer without asking. And gave him extra towels. Mi casa es su casa. 

And we had all sorts of things given to us.  Many we didn’t accept but many times it would have been rude and offended people greatly not to accept  

BTW- the OP’s feelings are valid and how she handles things with her daughter is valid. But my family culture is valid too even if it doesn’t match yours. And other ethnic cultures are also valid. 

No one is criticizing your culture, Jean. I think you know that. Asking for more information is not criticizing.

I do think the statement that something is true in "white American culture" is over-generalizing. 

[Ann.without.an.e]

I haven't read all of the replies but my DS did something similar this week with DH's tool.  He offered for a friend of his to borrow them (like hundreds of dollars of tools) without asking DH.  I mean, he didn't  give them away like your dd did but still...it never occurred to him to see if DH was ok with this?  I think they just don't think sometimes. 

[LarlaB]

We are a generous family.  My kids are free to give their stuff away.  I am free to give my things away.  What we don’t do is give each other’s things away.  It’s great to give someone the shirt off your back...but to offer someone else’s shirt isn’t generous it’s presumptuous.  It’s not really an admirable quality to give away something that really isn’t yours....  

It’s not about generousity but about respect.  

[JustEm]

The OP mentioned it as being "our essential oil set and diffuser" not hers.  So, I interpreted that as something that the household used at one point and no longer had a use for it so it just sat in a closet somewhere taking up space. Along the same line of the old coffeemaker that got stored away because someone gifted the family a Keurig, the random kitchen gadget that was used for a bit and then sat in a drawer because no one really liked it, or the old cellphone that sits in a drawer because dad got a new one. All of those things mentioned would be completely up for grabs in my house if someone realized someone else had a need/use for them.  And the conversation would go the same way as it did in the OP.  It wouldn't simply disappear but someone would ask about its whereabouts and tell why it was needed.  If for whatever reason the other people in the house still needed/wanted it they'd say that and then the conversation would be over with said object staying with the family.

Now had it been OP's personal possession that is a different story in my mind. It wouldn't be assumed that just because a person is no longer using it anyone could offer it up. 

[Chris in VA]

19 minutes ago, hjffkj said:

The OP mentioned it as being "our essential oil set and diffuser" not hers.  So, I interpreted that as something that the household used at one point and no longer had a use for it so it just sat in a closet somewhere taking up space. Along the same line of the old coffeemaker that got stored away because someone gifted the family a Keurig, the random kitchen gadget that was used for a bit and then sat in a drawer because no one really liked it, or the old cellphone that sits in a drawer because dad got a new one. All of those things mentioned would be completely up for grabs in my house if someone realized someone else had a need/use for them.  And the conversation would go the same way as it did in the OP.  It wouldn't simply disappear but someone would ask about its whereabouts and tell why it was needed.  If for whatever reason the other people in the house still needed/wanted it they'd say that and then the conversation would be over with said object staying with the family.

Now had it been OP's personal possession that is a different story in my mind. It wouldn't be assumed that just because a person is no longer using it anyone could offer it up. 

It was mine. My son gave me the diffuser and a set of oils, and I bought another set with a gift certificate. I allowed dd to use them. 

I decided I'm just sort of possessive about things right now, largely because we are paring down books and clothes in preparation for the  future.  I think it is tied to letting go of my brother in law and my brother, too, and to all the other letting go I need to do at the moment. But even tho it wasn't JUST about the diffuser and set, it was, too. 

And I realized it is ok for me to say no to my daughter, to hold on to this set even if I don't use it, and to give myself permission to not really know all the reasons why I'm not ready to let it go. 

Funny how such little interactions can lead to such big introspections. Thx for the input. 

[gardenmom5]

1 hour ago, hjffkj said:

The OP mentioned it as being "our essential oil set and diffuser" not hers.  So, I interpreted that as something that the household used at one point and no longer had a use for it so it just sat in a closet somewhere taking up space.

mom and dad own the house and its contents.  children own specific things that are specifically theirs.

I may refer to something as "ours" - as in, the family's - but in reality, unless it is specifically a child's - it's not theirs.  they can use it (or not), but they have no ownership or say when it comes to deciding if it will stay or go from the home.

Edited August 3, 2018 by gardenmom5

[JustEm]

16 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said:

mom and dad own the house and its contents.  children own specific things that are specifically theirs.

I may refer to something as "ours" - as in, the family's - but in reality, unless it is specifically a child's - it's not theirs.  they can use it (or not), but they have no ownership or say when it comes to deciding if it will stay or go from the home.

 

that is not how my family works so when I say "ours" I mean "ours," hence interpreting it the way I did. OP clarified that the oils were in fact hers, so in her case I might not be too happy about it either.

[Pen]

2 hours ago, hjffkj said:

The OP mentioned it as being "our essential oil set and diffuser" not hers.  So, I interpreted that as something

 

It sounds like there are a lot of ways different people talk about things and what is meant by that. And different ways people can feel about gifting objects to others. And different ways people can interpret what words mean.  As well as different cultural expectations, which given a multicultural society may or may not be obvious to dc what their own home follows  

I now think that perhaps this is something that needs to be discussed rather than taking it for granted that a child of any age will automatically know our expectations and assumptions  

 

[Hannah]

7 hours ago, gardenmom5 said:

mom and dad own the house and its contents.  children own specific things that are specifically theirs.

I may refer to something as "ours" - as in, the family's - but in reality, unless it is specifically a child's - it's not theirs.  they can use it (or not), but they have no ownership or say when it comes to deciding if it will stay or go from the home.

This is the way we work too.  I would expect my child to ask before giving away something that is not specifically theirs.  Similarly, I have run some things by my husband before giving them away. 

[Guest]

8 hours ago, Chris in VA said:

It was mine. My son gave me the diffuser and a set of oils, and I bought another set with a gift certificate. I allowed dd to use them. 

I decided I'm just sort of possessive about things right now, largely because we are paring down books and clothes in preparation for the  future.  I think it is tied to letting go of my brother in law and my brother, too, and to all the other letting go I need to do at the moment. But even tho it wasn't JUST about the diffuser and set, it was, too. 

And I realized it is ok for me to say no to my daughter, to hold on to this set even if I don't use it, and to give myself permission to not really know all the reasons why I'm not ready to let it go. 

Funny how such little interactions can lead to such big introspections. Thx for the input. 

I like this post. It is in many way similar to the fancy purse story. It was about the purse but it was also concerns about attitudes towards money and it’s use. There was a lot of worry wrapped up in it. 

I do also think you are right. You are allowed to keep something even if keeping it is not crucial and even if it doesn’t “spark joy.” You are allowed to hang onto some trinket or tool even if it makes no sense to someone else. 

(((Hugs))) 

[lailasmum]

It would and has really annoyed me when people have given away things that are mine but they see as unused. My mum actually did this to me once. Took a pan I didn't use often and gave it to my brother.  It was one of my cast iron pans for a specific purpose that I didn't use frequently. Since she doesn't really cook much she just thought it was unused and didn't understand it was something I wouldn't use a lot but still wanted. Not sure what use my brother would get out of it but it was probably misused as a frying pan.  I never got it back but my brother is moving soon and I might see if he's still got it. 

[gardenmom5]

35 minutes ago, lailasmum said:

It would and has really annoyed me when people have given away things that are mine but they see as unused. My mum actually did this to me once. Took a pan I didn't use often and gave it to my brother.  It was one of my cast iron pans for a specific purpose that I didn't use frequently. Since she doesn't really cook much she just thought it was unused and didn't understand it was something I wouldn't use a lot but still wanted. Not sure what use my brother would get out of it but it was probably misused as a frying pan.  I never got it back but my brother is moving soon and I might see if he's still got it. 

I hope your brother still has it - but he may well have just gotten rid of it if he thought it was as useless as your mother.

mil did that kind of stuff all. the. time.   gave away stuff (to goodwill) that specifically belonged to her children. even adult children. she lived with us for a year (she's nuts!), and if she liked something she'd claim it was hers and she'd do what she wanted with it - I had to be quick on the uptake to stop her.  for her, it was about control.  she's 93 and in a wheelchair - it's slowed her down.

my mother would give me gifts - when I was an established adult in my own home paying my own bills -  then when she thought another family member needed, would offer it to them - even if I was still using it.  she always thought of those 'gifts' as belonging to herself, never the person to whom she first gave it as a "gift".  she never learned proper boundaries.   I only learned about them as an adult - and as I was learning them, I had to teach her too.