s/o Teaching our kids where the line is with doctors

[sassenach]

How are you all handling this? I'm finding it so tricky. On one hand, I want my kids to know that they can always have a voice about what is done to their body, even by a doctor. On the other, there are some inevitably uncomfortable things that we have to subject ourselves to in order to be healthy people. Who doesn't feel extremely uncomfortable the first (every) time they have their genitals examined? But we must, right?

 

So how are you guys articulating this to your kids? Especially the tweens. 

[solascriptura]

Well, I’ll probably be attacked for this but I make it a point that my kids have a female pediatrician. Yes, I know that the vast vast majority of male doctors are good and professional, but this is one way to cut out much of the risk. I prefer female doctors as well. I just cannot get to a comfort level with male doctors that’s necessary for exams or discussions. My dh is comfortable with my opinion on this. He feels better that our kids and I have female doctors.

[HomeAgain]

I have always told my children to request a nurse or aide present.  This practice has been standard across the board in all their activities: you don't ever be alone with a grown up who is not designated a 'safe person' (parents, a few close family).  You camp?  Two adults.  You have a meeting? Two adults.  You have the right to an open door in places where you don't want to share the conversation (like school/with a teacher).

 

As adults, they have the right to make that decision themselves, but as a parent, it's our basic rule.

[Tammi K]

 I mean, I can think of zero reason off the top of my head to ever consent to a pelvic exam that was not conducted by an actual OBGYN or in an ER type situation. And if they aren’t doing a pelvic there is zero reason for any physician or medical personnel to be in that vicinity.

 

 

 

I have three daughters with PCOS and all three have taken the pill to control painful symptoms and not a single one has had an exam by an 'actual obgyn.'

 

 

 

[gardenmom5]

there also need to learn what the line is why boy-/girl-friends as I think that is a more likely source of abuse, and too many still don't speak out.

[Ottakee]

It is not just girls that you need yo talk to, warn, prepare.

[Laurie4b]

Well, I’ll probably be attacked for this but I make it a point that my kids have a female pediatrician. Yes, I know that the vast vast majority of male doctors are good and professional, but this is one way to cut out much of the risk. I prefer female doctors as well. I just cannot get to a comfort level with male doctors that’s necessary for exams or discussions. My dh is comfortable with my opinion on this. He feels better that our kids and I have female doctors.

 

I only use female doctors myself after having 3 sexually inappropriate interactions with physicians (interns or residents) by the time I was 19. The last one he described leering how much he would enjoy doing a legitimate medical exam. (He didn't use those words. ) That was worse than him trying to get his hands all over me because it broke the unspoken contract that a doctor examining your body is not thinking of it sexually.

 

AND then years later when I thought that I needed to work it out, I started to talk with close friends and family about it and about 1/3 of them had had something inappropriate happen as well. The straw that broke the camel's back was when I was venting to a friend about an OB from the practice I was using who was on call on my due date. I disliked him. I mentioned his name, she gasped, and relayed a sexual comment he made before her first ob exam. She never went back. 

 

Anyway, there are certain areas I won't go to at night because the chance of assault is too high. I feel the same about male physicians. Some are certainly decent guys, but I have not been willing to subject myself to the possibilities for some years. 

 

OP, I would suggest a female physician as well. Your daughter should understand the reason for anything that a doctor does and the doctor should explain everything beforehand. It may not feel comfortable, but it should feel legitimate.  If your daughter isn't sure about something, she can say no for the time being and go back if she decides it's okay. She can take someone with her.  

[solascriptura]

I only use female doctors myself after having 3 sexually inappropriate interactions with physicians (interns or residents) by the time I was 19. The last one he described leering how much he would enjoy doing a legitimate medical exam. (He didn't use those words. ) That was worse than him trying to get his hands all over me because it broke the unspoken contract that a doctor examining your body is not thinking of it sexually.

 

AND then years later when I thought that I needed to work it out, I started to talk with close friends and family about it and about 1/3 of them had had something inappropriate happen as well. The straw that broke the camel's back was when I was venting to a friend about an OB from the practice I was using who was on call on my due date. I disliked him. I mentioned his name, she gasped, and relayed a sexual comment he made before her first ob exam. She never went back. 

 

Anyway, there are certain areas I won't go to at night because the chance of assault is too high. I feel the same about male physicians. Some are certainly decent guys, but I have not been willing to subject myself to the possibilities for some years. 

 

OP, I would suggest a female physician as well. Your daughter should understand the reason for anything that a doctor does and the doctor should explain everything beforehand. It may not feel comfortable, but it should feel legitimate.  If your daughter isn't sure about something, she can say no for the time being and go back if she decides it's okay. She can take someone with her.  

 

Laurie4b,

 

That's horrible and I'm so sorry!  I'm the one that originally said that I prefer female doctors for myself and kids, but nothing has every happened to me.   I guess I'm lucky that I'm very healthy and virtually never have a need to visit a doctor.  Once I became pregnant, the male ob-gyn's bedside manner turned me off so badly that we immediately went to a midwife and never looked back.  My midwife still does all of my women's exams and she's great.  I'm most definitely taking my girls to a midwife once they age out of seeing a ped doctor. 

 

It saddens me immensely that we even need to have discussions about this.   

[TechWife]

How do we make sure women understand that sometimes, two deep doesn’t prevent assault? Not everything is going to be obvious to someone else in the room, especially with an internal exam.

 

I think this is important because I want them to know they are able to report, even if their chaperone didn’t notice the assault because it was hidden from view.

Edited January 27, 2018 by TechWife

[AimeeM]

Well, I’ll probably be attacked for this but I make it a point that my kids have a female pediatrician. Yes, I know that the vast vast majority of male doctors are good and professional, but this is one way to cut out much of the risk. I prefer female doctors as well. I just cannot get to a comfort level with male doctors that’s necessary for exams or discussions. My dh is comfortable with my opinion on this. He feels better that our kids and I have female doctors.

 

Oddly enough, I'm exactly opposite in my preferences for myself. I'm uncomfortable with most women doctors, and even those I'm not uncomfortable with, I just don't prefer for some reason. I have a male primary doctor and a male GYN. My adhd specialist is a woman and I like her quite a lot, but she never examines me other than the basics (blood pressure, etc.).

[SamanthaCarter]

I’ve always made a point when I’ve had to check my girls genitals (because of some random complaint of discomfort: yeast, rash, or nothing visible) that NO One, except Mommy or the doctor may touch them there, and only the doctor if mommy’s there and says it’s okay. I don’t know what I’ll do different when they’re older.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Melissa in Australia]

I live in a country were doctors DON"T routinely look at those areas on children at all and not very often on adults. I am always flabbergasted when I read threads like this that people in USA actually tolerate and seem to expect doctors to be closely examining their healthy children's genitals. 

[Reefgazer]

I have always told both of my children if they ever feel uncomfortable for *any reason* they are free to get up to walk out of the doctors office and I will not make them go back.

[Loowit]

I live in a country were doctors DON"T routinely look at those areas on children at all and not very often on adults. I am always flabbergasted when I read threads like this that people in USA actually tolerate and seem to expect doctors to be closely examining their healthy children's genitals. 

 

I don't think it is routine to "closely examine" genitalia, but a quick glance for any obvious problems.  It takes less than 30 seconds most of the time and the doctor always asks permission.  I am glad that they do these checks because one of my boys had a problem that if it hadn't been corrected he would likely never be able to have children.  Any sort of internal examination for girls is not done until they are over a certain age and/or sexually active.  I didn't have an internal exam until I was in my 20's.

 

 

About the OP, I would prefer to teach my daughter, and my sons too, to find a doctor they trust, regardless of their sex.  DD and I have talked about it some, especially now that she is older.  We talk about when an exam may be needed, and what it should entail, and to ask questions.  I have also encouraged them that if they are uncomfortable to say no.  Also, they know that having me or DH there is always an option if that would make them feel more comfortable.  Almost all of the doctors I have seen have always talked about what they are doing step by step, and this helps.  All the male doctors have had a nurse in the room with them, which seems to be pretty standard practice.  The only bad experience I had was with a female doctor, and it was traumatizing.

[Joker]

I never made either dc do the pants off annual exams if they didn't want to. That meant sometimes we had to find new doctors but I don't feel it's necessary and I definitely think my dc should be able to decide to consent to it or not. If ever there were issues they knew it was needed and were OK with it (only happened once with repeated uti's).

 

I know I'm supposed to go annually but I have some leftover issues and don't. I go every few years at the moment but I've gone yearly at times as well. I get to decide though and I feel my dc should be able to as well.

Edited January 28, 2018 by Joker

[TeenagerMom]

I think you are likely conflating a whole lot of threads together.

 

Most childrens exams do NOT include a check of the genitals.   My kids were weighed naked as babies, and that was about it.  I used cloth diapers so the weight of the diaper, even dry, did make a difference.  Other than that, the only other time I can think of was when I asked about a diaper rash.  As kids (vs babies) the younger 3 have never had an exam that included genitals and for DD22, the first time she ever had her bottoms off at a doc's office is when she was a teen and experiencing some specific gyn related issues.   My experience, as a person who moved a lot as a kid and also never really experienced a bottoms off exam that I can recall (through multiple locations and doc offices) and as a parent of 4 kids, through 2 different docs, is that it's not common at all for regular exams to include healthy children's genitals.

 

BUT.....that doesn't mean there are not situations where that might have to happen.  For baby boys, in addition to diaper rash, there might need to be a check to see if a circ is healing, or if mom is concerned that her uncirc'd son is experiencing issues.  If a kid is complaining of a lot of pain but mom can't really see anything.  If a girl starts her cycles really early it indicate a need for some tests.  etc etc.

 

I think also though, that especially this year, within the last 12ish months.....there's been a lot of attention to what a violation is, or isn't.  And I think it's important for a kid to understand that if there's a problem, it's ok for a doc to check that problem.  It doesn't mean docs get a pass to check a kids genitals whenever they feel like it.  It just means that bodily functions and bodily problems are what they are and sometimes, a doc needs to see what's going on to help you feel better. 

 

I'm not sure she's conflating.........In multiple threads, there has appeared to be surprise that my teenagers have never had private exams with the physicians at their well child checkups, including giving them privacy for their genital checks.  Maybe I've misinterpreted those posters, but that's the feel I have gotten.

 

[Joker]

I think you are likely conflating a whole lot of threads together.

 

Most childrens exams do NOT include a check of the genitals. My kids were weighed naked as babies, and that was about it. I used cloth diapers so the weight of the diaper, even dry, did make a difference. Other than that, the only other time I can think of was when I asked about a diaper rash. As kids (vs babies) the younger 3 have never had an exam that included genitals and for DD22, the first time she ever had her bottoms off at a doc's office is when she was a teen and experiencing some specific gyn related issues. My experience, as a person who moved a lot as a kid and also never really experienced a bottoms off exam that I can recall (through multiple locations and doc offices) and as a parent of 4 kids, through 2 different docs, is that it's not common at all for regular exams to include healthy children's genitals.

 

BUT.....that doesn't mean there are not situations where that might have to happen. For baby boys, in addition to diaper rash, there might need to be a check to see if a circ is healing, or if mom is concerned that her uncirc'd son is experiencing issues. If a kid is complaining of a lot of pain but mom can't really see anything. If a girl starts her cycles really early it indicate a need for some tests. etc etc.

 

I think also though, that especially this year, within the last 12ish months.....there's been a lot of attention to what a violation is, or isn't. And I think it's important for a kid to understand that if there's a problem, it's ok for a doc to check that problem. It doesn't mean docs get a pass to check a kids genitals whenever they feel like it. It just means that bodily functions and bodily problems are what they are and sometimes, a doc needs to see what's going on to help you feel better.

There are some pediatricians that require it at yearly well checks. We've always found new doctors when we've run into them. Edited January 28, 2018 by Joker

[Joker]

Sure, I have had docs that like a regular check up.

 

I am saying that the vast majority of those regular check ups have NOT included any check of the genitals.

 

Are you guys saying that regular annual check ups of your kids involve genital checks REGULARLY, even if the parent doesn't have a question?

 

Because if that's what you are actually saying, I will say that I DO find that really weird, as a parent in the US. My experience with regular check ups include the doc questioning the parent about developmental things (like if the kid knows colors, etc....I described this in a previous thread.) as well as some things like having the kid walk some steps to watch the kid's gait, basic vitals, weight, etc, look in the eyes, ears, those sorts of things. All things that happen with the kids clothes on. As babies of course the exams are a bit different, but really......regular annual exams for kids (like, preschool and school age) that actually include regular genital checks?

I've run into several pediatricians who wanted them in a gown and undressed before they came in the room for the well check and that did want to do a check of the genitals. I had two of them refuse to do the exam since my dc refused. Fortunately, we've always been able to find those who didn't but it usually meant we had to go family practice instead of a pediatrician.

[EMS83]

I live in a country were doctors DON"T routinely look at those areas on children at all and not very often on adults. I am always flabbergasted when I read threads like this that people in USA actually tolerate and seem to expect doctors to be closely examining their healthy children's genitals.

So how frequently are pelvic exams and pap smears recommended for adults there? Oh and mammograms? Purely curious!

[Jean in Newcastle]

Both my kids (male and female) have had quick checks during well child exams.

 

For boys they were checking to make sure that testicles were descended when they were infants. Later there was a quick check for redness, and potential problems. This wasn’t at every visit but on occasion. The check took seconds.

 

For girls it was a quick check for normal development, the absence of irritation and the like. Again, not a traumatic experience and it only took seconds.

 

Both girl and boy exams have been a quick visual check. There has never been the need for an internal exam. Part of the purpose of a well check is to find potential problems before they become serious. I think a quick check of the sort I described is not weird or creepy and serves a legitimate purpose.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[hjffkj]

Oddly enough, I'm exactly opposite in my preferences for myself. I'm uncomfortable with most women doctors, and even those I'm not uncomfortable with, I just don't prefer for some reason. I have a male primary doctor and a male GYN. My adhd specialist is a woman and I like her quite a lot, but she never examines me other than the basics (blood pressure, etc.).

This is me too. I am far mote comfortable with male Drs

[Melissa in Australia]

Pap smear was every 3 years after you are sexually active,but it is shifting to 5 years especially if you are not changing partners. Not so many people get it done even that frequently. I am not planning on having another pap smear

 

Mammograms are not routinely done until you are over 50 unless there is a medical indicator that it is needed.

 

I have only had a pelvic exam when pregnant. And that was because I was going to have a large baby and the dr wanted to see if I could birth the baby

 

Babies especially boys are checked at 6 weeks old.

[Melissa in Australia]

Part of the purpose of a well check is to find potential problems before they become serious. I think a quick check of the sort I described is not weird or creepy and serves a legitimate purpose.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

And yet countries like Aus that doesn't have doctors doing this don't have higher cases of serious genital conditions.

[Joker]

This is me too. I am far mote comfortable with male Drs

 

Me too! I've had the worst experiences with female OB-GYNS. There was one when I was pregnant with oldest that would cause me to cry if she was on call when I came in. It was awful enough that I make sure I only have male doctors now. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

I did have a doctor want to do a pap when I went in with ear pain. He kept talking about how beautiful I was. (I’ve never been a beauty and it was weird and creepy). I said yes to the exam, let him leave so that I could change, waited a minute for him to go down the hall, picked up my stuff and hightailed out of there. On the way out I reported him to staff.

 

Later that day the medical director called me to try to explain that it must have been a misunderstanding. I did not back down. All she told me was that the Hispanic doctor would be only assigned to Hispanic patients so that there would no longer be any “misunderstandingsâ€. I told her how racist that was and how there was zero misunderstanding. I don’t know what happened though. I have always wondered.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[EMS83]

Pap smear was every 3 years after you are sexually active,but it is shifting to 5 years especially if you are not changing partners. Not so many people get it done even that frequently. I am not planning on having another pap smear

 

Mammograms are not routinely done until you are over 50 unless there is a medical indicator that it is needed.

 

I have only had a pelvic exam when pregnant. And that was because I was going to have a large baby and the dr wanted to see if I could birth the baby

 

Babies especially boys are checked at 6 weeks old.

I think that's more my current style. :) I did have a mammogram once; the lump turned out to be a cyst. I think I'd rather not have another...

(mammogram, that is!)

 

Ok, sorry to sidetrack. Back to regular programming! :D

[Jean in Newcastle]

And yet countries like Aus that doesn't have doctors doing this don't have higher cases of serious genital conditions.

?? Conditions don’t have to be serious. There can be problems like yeast and other fungal problems. There can be delayed development which is not even a problem but just something to keep an eye on. A quick check does no harm.

[mom2scouts]

Well, I’ll probably be attacked for this but I make it a point that my kids have a female pediatrician. Yes, I know that the vast vast majority of male doctors are good and professional, but this is one way to cut out much of the risk. I prefer female doctors as well. I just cannot get to a comfort level with male doctors that’s necessary for exams or discussions. My dh is comfortable with my opinion on this. He feels better that our kids and I have female doctors.

 

So what if your abuse came at the hands of a woman? There may be less risk with a woman doctor, but there's still a risk.

[Katy]

Crime statistics clearly show you are much less likely to be abused by a female.  This is why you teach children who are lost to find a mommy or a police officer.

 

I've been thinking about this myself.  I had two questionable experiences with gynecological exams by male doctors in my late teens or early 20's.  Things I would report now, but at the time it just gave me the creeps and I got the heck out of there ASAP.

 

I guess the answer is, "never let anyone do anything you're uncomfortable with."  And I think female doctors help.

[umsami]

I need to.  Especially as I had a doctor molest me when I was in college.  He said that he needed to do a complete physical...including a br*@st self exam....and I didn't say anything.  And then, he put his head on my naked br*@st to listen to my heart.   :cursing:   Of course, no nurse in the room.  I just sat there, kind of thinking...."Did he just do what I thought he did???"

 

Granted not as bad as the gymnasts, but still weird.

 

We've told our kids that nobody should touch them where their bathing suit is....but I need to do better.  

And yes, I need to remember that predators can be from both sexes.  

Edited January 28, 2018 by umsami

[Mergath]

So what if your abuse came at the hands of a woman? There may be less risk with a woman doctor, but there's still a risk.

 

:iagree:  I've only had one doctor ever act inappropriately toward me (in a creepy, sexual way) and it was a female pediatrician. 

[DesertBlossom]

So what if your abuse came at the hands of a woman? There may be less risk with a woman doctor, but there's still a risk.

 

A female pediatrician, during a well-chlid exam, tried to retract my 4 year old's foreskin. I asked her not to do that (because it can harm the child), she got huffy with me and basically said he'd have to be circumcised if it didn't retract. Which is actually not true at all, but American doctors are pretty ignorant about foreskins.  So while it wasn't sexual abuse, her ignorance certainly could have caused damage. 

 

I had a female doctor try to talk me into a pelvic exam that I didn't feel was necessary. I didn't feel my symptoms matched the conclusion she was coming to. It was a really odd and uncomfortable encounter. I stood my ground and refused.  A pharmacist later helped diagnose me based on symptoms (no pelvic exam necessary) and I got it taken care of.

 

I do think there is less risk with female doctors, but you should probably always be on guard.

Edited January 28, 2018 by DesertBlossom

[Seeking Squirrels]

Sure, I have had docs that like a regular check up.

 

I am saying that the vast majority of those regular check ups have NOT included any check of the genitals.

 

Are you guys saying that regular annual check ups of your kids involve genital checks REGULARLY, even if the parent doesn't have a question?

 

Because if that's what you are actually saying, I will say that I DO find that really weird, as a parent in the US.  My experience with regular check ups include the doc questioning the parent about developmental things (like if the kid knows colors, etc....I described this in a previous thread.) as well as some things like having the kid walk some steps to watch the kid's gait, basic vitals, weight, etc, look in the eyes, ears, those sorts of things.  All things that happen with the kids clothes on.  As babies of course the exams are a bit different, but really......regular annual exams for kids (like, preschool and school age) that actually include regular genital checks?

My kids' well child checks have always included a very quick genital check and we love our pediatrician. She's great about it, always talks to them first about how it's a private area that we don't let anyone else see and it's only okay now because mom is right here with us. Quick glance and that's it. It's always just seemed part of the routine checkup to me, nothing weird about it. They don't have to get into robes or anything and it's nothing drawn out, seriously just a quick peek that things look normal. 

[Garga]

I do vaguely remember a check for descended testicles when DS5 was a baby. He was fine and that was that. I honestly can't recall any sort of quick visual check like you describe as young kids though. I know I have been ASKED, as the parent, if there were concerns. And I am not sure I would automatically call a quick check like you describe "creepy." But....a GOWN? The idea of a 5yr old, a 10 yr old needing a GOWN....for a well check visit....I do kinda find that creepy.

 

 

In the US, I think pap smears are done more often due to BCP regulations. It's considered an annual thing and with most insurances, a BCP refill can't be hand without it. For myself, no BCP, so I dont' think I have had one since DS5 was born. I should probably go, but there's no doc here I am comfortable with and really, it takes months just to get a sitter to have a tooth fixed. A sitter so I can sit in the stirrups....yeah no thanks.

 

Mammogram recommendations are changing in the US too, though.....I don't know what the current ones are.

 

Aren't a pelvic exam and a pap smear the same thing?

Pelvic exam is when the doctor looks and feels (the ovaries and such) the person during the checkup—she examines the patient.

 

Pap smear is when they take a sample from inside and send it to a lab for testing. You can have an exam without having a pap smear.

 

I only get the yearly exam for birth control pills. Otherwise, I’d go years between exams.

 

We go to a family doctor and she does a check of the private areas for the kids’ yearly checkups. It’s fast and they start that part of the exam at age 13. It’s all a part of their bodies and I see nothing wrong with a check. Being upset about it makes it seem like that part of the body is shameful or something. It’s not. So, at a checkup of your body, I think it’s normal to be included. The exam includes everything from head to toe.

 

There are no gowns involved.

Edited January 28, 2018 by Garga

[kiwik]

Well, I’ll probably be attacked for this but I make it a point that my kids have a female pediatrician. Yes, I know that the vast vast majority of male doctors are good and professional, but this is one way to cut out much of the risk. I prefer female doctors as well. I just cannot get to a comfort level with male doctors that’s necessary for exams or discussions. My dh is comfortable with my opinion on this. He feels better that our kids and I have female doctors.

I think my kids think all doctors are female unless they work in a hospital.

 

We don't have regular check ups for kids after immunisations finish at 4 though they do see a public health nurse at about 4.5 for a before school check which isn't medical really but includes a hearing and vision check.

 

For adult smear tests every 3 years and mammograms after 47 (I think), i got my BRACA 2 results at 46 and get mammogram annually and an MRI annually. My boys have had their genitals checked because ds10 had an issue with one testicle and ds8 has a tight foreskin but only because the midwife noted the first problem and I noticed the second.

 

I have had some doctors i tjought were jerks but none that were inappropriate. I have females now by accident (literally - i had just moved and went to a phsio in the same building)

Edited January 28, 2018 by kiwik

[SanDiegoMom]

I will only go to female obgyns now if I have to do anything pelvic related. I had a primary care military doctor do a pelvic exam and Pap smear in my twenties and while as as far as I know nothing inappropriate happened, he was so uncomfortable and nervous and sweating (kept wiping his forehead off with a handkerchief). It made me totally uncomfortable.

[TravelingChris]

My only sexual abuse and relatively very minor was at the hands of an ob/gyn in my mid 20's.  Not a military doctor, it was a doctor probably in his mid 50;s in Chicago.  His abuse was more misogynistic though I have no idea if he would have had a chance to exam males whether he would also be sort of sadistic.  The only difference I could see in what happened to me that I could do know differently is give bad online reviews.

 

As to my kids and genital exams- quick peaks very occasionally for the girls, more for my son who underwent to surgeries to correct undescended testicles= once as a baby/toddler and second one as a 6 or 7 year old.  Only my middle had to have a internal genital exam as a teen due to medical issues.  She wanted and still wants female ob/gyn.  She may have to get over it though since if she gets pregnant, she will have a high risk pregnancy.  My younger has a male obgyn and had no issues with him.

[Alice]

In our office we ask kids to put on gowns for well-checks (not for every visit). Depending on the clothing,  I find it much less invasive to have them in a gown when I examine them then to have to try to work around clothing. Things we look for could be harder to see in clothing: full skin check, scoliosis, alignment of legs (knock-knees vs. bowlegs). In the winter it can be hard even to listen to heart and lunch and examine the abdomen effectively in clothing. A kid in Tshirt and shorts is easy. A girl in skin-tight jeggings and multiple layers of tops is difficult and can feel more invasive. 

 

We examine the genitals at every well-check.  For girls it can be hands-off and really just a quick visual glance. For boys we would want to check their testicles. In girls I’m mostly looking for premature puberty or normal development. In boys we are looking for undescended testicles and hernias. I explain what I am going to do to and ask their permission. I explain that we do this to check their whole body for health and that’s it’s ok if their Mom or Dad has said it’s ok but not otherwise. 

 

I think it’s important to treat kids with respect. We have kids refuse the gown or refuse the exam. They have that right and it’s fine. I usually explain to them why we think it’s important but that they do have the right to say no. We just do the rest of the exam. 

 

We also make it matter of fact which I think is important. I think it’s important that kids feel comfortable with their doctor. I know that people have had horrible experiences with doctors but I also think it’s true that their are good doctors out there. I find that it’s much much harder to see a kid for an exam when there is a problem when they are not used to coming to the doctor. The trust and relationship aren’t there. I also find that it’s much easier for a teen who has a problem that needs a more private exam to trust us to do that if they have had something like that kind of exam before and it was done in a respectful, matter of fact, way. And yes, we see teens who need exams (potential STD, the teen is concerned about the way their genitals look). 

 

I think this issue is somewhat similar to the perennial “why do physicals for kids†thread that comes up. Yes, most kids are healthy and we find nothing on physicals. But we do find things and sometimes serious things. That includes things that we wouldn’t have found without a genital exam or without being able to see the full skin easily. And that includes issues that parents were unaware of. I have found boys with undescended testicles that the parents were not aware of, that includes older boys. I had a boy I diagnosed with a serious platelet disorder due to huge bruises on his hip (I would never have seen it if he hadn’t been in a gown). His Mom mentioned in passing that he “bruised easily†so she was aware but thought it was just him. In our practice we had a child who was diagnosed with a serious immune disease that was able to be treated due to the genital exam (palpation of the inguinal lymph nodes was the reason). And another child who was diagnosed as being genetically male although being phenotypically female due to the genital exam. 

 

i think a guideline for kids (and adults) with doctors is: 

*You always have the right to say no to any part of an exam. If a doctor makes you feel bad about that or tries to make you do something, leave and get a new doctor. 

 

*You have the right to have a chaperone...I think for kids it should be mandatory for the exam. For older teens/adults who are comfortable with their doctor and choose to be alone I think that’s ok, but it really should be the teens choice and not the doctor making them be alone. 

 

 

[SparklyUnicorn]

I don't know.  My pediatrician was inappropriate with me right in front of my mother for years.  So I basically don't trust any doctors.  Going there is a lovely anxiety ridden experience every time.  If I need to be examined down there and the doc is not female I request an assistant.  I generally avoid male doctors unless it's for something that is absolutely unrelated to private parts of my body (for example my eye doc and allergist are male).

 

 

[Sandwalker]

I do vaguely remember a check for descended testicles when DS5 was a baby. He was fine and that was that. I honestly can't recall any sort of quick visual check like you describe as young kids though. I know I have been ASKED, as the parent, if there were concerns. And I am not sure I would automatically call a quick check like you describe "creepy." But....a GOWN? The idea of a 5yr old, a 10 yr old needing a GOWN....for a well check visit....I do kinda find that creepy.

 

In the US, I think pap smears are done more often due to BCP regulations. It's considered an annual thing and with most insurances, a BCP refill can't be hand without it. For myself, no BCP, so I dont' think I have had one since DS5 was born. I should probably go, but there's no doc here I am comfortable with and really, it takes months just to get a sitter to have a tooth fixed. A sitter so I can sit in the stirrups....yeah no thanks.

 

Mammogram recommendations are changing in the US too, though.....I don't know what the current ones are.

 

Aren't a pelvic exam and a pap smear the same thing?

There are new recommendations from the ACOG in the US now regarding paps. If she's never had a suspicious pap, it's now every 3-5 years, depending upon age. They still want women to get annual exams and some deny birth control refills if the exam's been over a year. Really all that's needed to refill BC pills is a quick blood pressure check. Edited January 28, 2018 by Sandwalker

[lmrich]

I think it is wise to request to have a nurse present. I cannot recall a pelvic exam where there was not another person present. 

[Soror]

I thought I posted here but I guess I accidentally deleted my post. I remember a dentist threatening me when I was young in the room alone with him. I also remember my first pelvic exam, I had to go in alone and had no idea exactly what was going to happen. I left feeling violated. All these years later I don't know if anything inappropriate happened or I just felt uncomfortable because I didn't know what was going to happen and the guy didn't put me at ease. I still don't understand why my Mom didn't explain things, everything having to do with private parts and s*x she just let me figure it out, it was very lonely and confusing. I talk with the girls about everything(as it is appropriate) and they know they can ask me anything and not be embarrassed, one of the kids had a question just last week about some developmental thing, it is nothing to be ashamed of.  

 

(1) there should always be someone else in the room, without exception

(2) I will be there with them until my kid wants me to leave 

(3) ALWAYS explain exactly what is supposed to happen- so they know what is appropriate and aren't surprised- the dr should explain as well 

(4) they have final control over what is done to their body and can refuse if they feel uncomfortable

(5) we need to practice role-playing over what to do in such situations, they are allowed to yell, scream, and harm in anyway possible anyone that tries to hurt them or do anything inappropriate

(6) reiterate that if anything ever does happen that doesn't mean that you did something wrong or bad, that means that whoever did it is the bad guy and you will never ever get in trouble for what someone else does to you no matter what they might say, we will never be upset and always be on your side

(7) it isn't just bad people that do bad things-the bad guys don't always look like bad guys- sometimes people that do bad things are the nicest people and it might be people you know and like

 

I think this case will be good for parent rights, I mean let's see a dr try to kick out a parent now, all you have to say is Nasser. 

 

I read a great article last week by Barbara Kingsolver about role-playing with her daughters, it is something I had not thought of but am adding to my education of the girls (just the oldest for now). 

 

My oldest daughter had an incident that really bothered her, she is just starting puberty but modest and sensitive. At my Mom's house, a 5yo cousin hit/touched her butt. She got really mad and told him he couldn't do that and I think sent him to the corner. Evidently, my brother backed her up and told him that wasn't appropriate but her female cousin (13yo) told her she was being dramatic and he was only 5. I told my daughter that it was her body so her choice about what was ok for her (although discipline him wasn't really her place). It is those little things that erode a girls confidence though, maybe I'm just being a prude. The thing is it doesn't matter what anyone thinks, your body your choice. If her cousin isn't bothered by her brother hitting her butt then that is their decision, it is equally my daughter's say if she doesn't want him to touch her there. 

 

I never did really find a female gyn I liked. My male one was always great and he always had a nurse in the room for exams. My kids see a GP now and all really like him, he's not done genital exams on any of them.

Edited January 28, 2018 by soror

[Soror]

There are new recommendations from the ACOG in the US now regarding paps. If she's never had a suspicious pap, it's now every 3-5 years, depending upon age. They still want women to get annual exams and some deny birth control refills if the exam's been over a year. Really all that's needed to refill BC pills is a quick blood pressure check.

I had heard some about this but not really read in detail.

 

The new guidelines are for pap smears starting at age 21. ACOG says gyn visits should start between 13 - 15 and should just include an external genital examination unless there are issues. That makes me feel relieved for my girls.

[Reefgazer]

The same thing happened to me when I was recovering from DAd's birth in the hospital. A female OB/GYN came in and asked to do a breast exam, so, OK, but then it just turned creepy and I thought WTF?

 

:iagree: I've only had one doctor ever act inappropriately toward me (in a creepy, sexual way) and it was a female pediatrician.