Who pays for college?

[SparklyUnicorn]

Do these outside scholarships make a big dent?

In my experience, the scholarships that really count are the ones given by the colleges themselves. Very often, colleges simply subtract the amount of outside scholarship from the aid they give to the student.

 

That was what I wondered.  I have looked at pages and pages of scholarships.  They tend to be very specific (for obscure conditions) and for 500 bucks here or there.  Sure, it isn't terrible to have an extra 500 bucks here or there, but this isn't real money in the grand scheme of things.  This is barely going to cover 3 books let alone make any sort of dent with tuition and fees.  With all the testing and stuff involved near graduation time, this is a lot of extra work for such an amount too.  AND they subtract that from one's outstanding debt and not the parent's required contribution. 

[KungFuPanda]

If my daughter worked 40 hours a week year round and paid zero taxes she still wouldn’t earn enough to pay for her state school room, board, and tuition. Never mind her not having time to study and go to class. If she lived at home, commuted, and worked part time (again, ignoring taxes on her wages.) She STILL wouldn’t earn enough. Maybe if she had the foresight to start working part time in high school? I’m not sure when she would’ve done her homework. High school work is no joke in my town.

 

A generation ago, it was entirely possible to pay your way with summer jobs and very part time during school. That’s not a thing anymore. There’s no character lesson here. When people say “Dh and I did it so we think our kids should too.†I’m not confident that they understand how the numbers are working out right now. That EFC is no joke.

[ealp2009]

I think parents should help as much as they can but not go into debt to pay for a child's college. I think there more resonable financial options like doing the first two years at community college, which is free in my community. I really don't think anyone should go into debt for an undergrad degree unless the degree leads directly to marketable skills and a decent paying job. I realize this is not always feesible but doing community college and state school and living at home does help.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[SparklyUnicorn]

If my daughter worked 40 hours a week year round and paid zero taxes she still wouldn’t earn enough to pay for her state school room, board, and tuition. Never mind her not having time to study and go to class. If she lived at home, commuted, and worked part time (again, ignoring taxes on her wages.) She STILL wouldn’t earn enough. Maybe if she had the foresight to start working part time in high school? I’m not sure when she would’ve done her homework. High school work is no joke in my town.

 

A generation ago, it was entirely possible to pay your way with summer jobs and very part time during school. That’s not a thing anymore. There’s no character lesson here. When people say “Dh and I did it so we think our kids should too.†I’m not confident that they understand how the numbers are working out right now. That EFC is no joke.

 

Of course not.  I didn't either in the early  to mid 1990s.  I worked full time AND went to school AND had to borrow a lot of money.  I didn't even make enough money to pay for the expense of a car.

[regentrude]

Depends.  The Stokes Program (NSA) is 30k per year, aimed at minorities. That covers a lot in my state.

 

But that is a very special case, and the student must commit to working for NSA for six years. So it's more a recruiting tool for students with specific skills. (Btw, where does it say it is aimed at minorities?)

 

Most outside scholarships operate very differently.

Edited December 27, 2017 by regentrude

[La Condessa]

My kids are still quite young.  My dh and I hope to be able to share the cost with them when the time comes, as our parents did for us, but we are not as far along in our savings as I had hoped we would be by this point (ds2's health problems as an infant took all our savings plus a couple of years to dig back out of the debt).  I'd like to be able to give them the cost of their undergraduate tuition and let them cover their living expenses and books.  I'm also not sure how that would work if different kids choose schools with dramatically different costs.  Tuitions vary so widely between schools.  What amount do you all use in estimating what you need to save?

[Kassia]

Both.  I feel that kids should have some investment in their education.

 

My three sons all went to state schools and received scholarships.  We counted their scholarships as their financial contribution and covered the rest.  They bought their own books.  One son lost his scholarship for one year and paid us for the scholarship money he would have received.  Looking back, I feel kind of guilty about that and think maybe we shouldn't have handled it that way.

 

We'll see about dd.  We are hoping for significant scholarships when the time comes, but it's too early to tell what we'll do until we know the final cost of the school she ends up attending.  

 

ETA:  I don't think paying for college should be a hardship for students if it's possible to avoid that.  My DH was in that situation and some of my sons' friends were - it definitely hurt them financially and academically, and caused a lot of stress.  

 

 

Edited December 27, 2017 by Kassia

[amy g.]

We have 2 in college right now. Both started at community college.

 

Our oldest had a full merit scholarship for her first 2 years and partial departmental scholarships for her remaining years. We pay the difference.

 

Middle daughter has a scholarship which covers her tuition and fees for each year of her undergraduate degree. We pay what that doesn’t cover.

 

Both kids go to reasonably priced schools. Both are frugal in their spending. We would prefer for them not to work so they can keep their grades up and be competitive for full funding in graduate school.

[Lilaclady]

and for stem majors . . . . 75% of the scholarships are for girls, and/or people of color. ONLY - white boys need not apply.

and those aren't merit scholarships either.

there are a lot of scholarships out there. varies with the college and the major.

 

I don’t think this is true. Most of the big outside scholarships- Coca Cola, Buick etc are more for low income students. Maybe Coca Cola is more merit leaning but most of the students that win that have done outstanding things that qualify them for these scholarships. Lots of white boys win the intel Isef scholarships.

[Corraleno]

I think parents should contribute to the extent that they're able. Some parents truly can't afford to pay anything, but they can at least help by filling out the FAFSA, helping research affordable options, helping kids qualify for scholarships, letting kids live at home if that's an option, etc. I understand expecting kids to work P/T or take small loans so they have some skin in the game, but I think it's unnecessarily cruel if parents simply refuse to help at all, on the grounds that "I paid my way, why should my kids have it easier?" Some parents even refuse to fill out the FAFSA, which many schools require even for merit aid.

 

I put myself through college with zero parental help (financial or otherwise), thanks to a combination of scholarships, grants, loans, and work-study, but the COA back then was about $10K/yr for a private LAC that now costs nearly six times as much. Not everyone has access to a decent CC, or a state uni within commuting distance. Unless a student has the stats for at least a full tuition scholarship, with R&B and books covered via loans and jobs, then I think it's very difficult for any student to completely self-fund a four year degree.

 

Both of my kids have college funds that will cover four years at an in-state public. DS has a full tuition scholarship to an excellent OOS flagship, and he will have funds left over that he can use for grad school. I'm hoping that DD will consider doing at least one year at the local CC (free tuition, living at home) and then transfer, so that she too can save some of her funds for other things (like buying a car or making a down payment on a house). If we did not have those funds available, then DS would either have to cover his living expenses via loans and a summer job, or he would have had to accept the higher scholarship offer he had from another school that is not nearly as highly ranked for his major. DD would simply have to do 2 yrs with free tuition at CC while living at home, and then probably transfer to the only state uni within commuting distance for yrs 3 & 4, with loans and summer jobs to cover tuition. Both situations would be doable, but definitely less than optimal.

[Granny_Weatherwax]

Do these outside scholarships make a big dent?

In my experience, the scholarships that really count are the ones given by the colleges themselves. Very often, colleges simply subtract the amount of outside scholarship from the aid they give to the student.

No, not big dent makers at all. The ones we looked at IIRC were mostly $250-1000. 

 

The local ones are usually $500.

 

I wonder if the ratio of male:female scholarships is regional. :huh:

[Granny_Weatherwax]

<snip> Not everyone has access to a decent CC, or a state uni within commuting distance. Unless a student has the stats for at least a full tuition scholarship, with R&B and books covered via loans and jobs, then I think it's very difficult for any student to completely self-fund a four year degree.

 

<snip>

^This. 

 

I agree 100%. The quality and availability of state based higher ed varies greatly. Our local CC has one of the highest tuition rates in the state and offers the fewest programs. The nearest state uni is an hour away on a (mostly) two lane country highway. Not really optimal for daily commuting (which in fact few people do).

[DawnM]

 

 

ETA: Since somebody brought up the "how": we are paying approximately my income to the colleges, so we're living on DH's income while the kids are in school.

 

Maybe you have addressed this before, but wouldn't your kids get free tuition at your school?  Did your school not offer what they needed?

[regentrude]

maybe you could point us at a list of stem scholarships not restricted by gender, age, minority status or family income?  Most of what I found was restricted.My dc would have been better off working professionally than investing his time in a fruitless search. The unrestricted small scholarships he found were based on writing tasks.

 

As I wrote above, my experience is that the biggest scholarships are given by the colleges based on either merit or need, and those I have seen are unrestricted.

 

For example, my DS' college gives a $72k  scholarship automatically for a 3.0 GPA, completely irrespective of gender, age, minority status, or family income. 

Some colleges give substantial aid to National Merit Scholars, which, again, is completely independent of gender, age, minority status or family income.

Some colleges have competitions. A board member's DS won a free ride for winning the college's physics competition for high school students. Being good at physics is also independent of gender, age, minority status or family income.

[JFSinIL]

We are able to meet our EFC (which went down to a hundred bucks the year hubby lost his job, but has crept back up although kids still get PELL grants). Kids do their part by getting the grades needed to get and keep merit scholarships (and only apply to school with decent merit aide). Kid who was a STEM major also took max student loans, as we all figured he'd make enough $ to pay them off. Kid going for a teaching degree - no loans. She is a scant hour away and could commute but chooses to live closer to campus. She works 20 hours a week while carrying a full load and maintaining a high GPA. She also started out at the local CC and lived at home (and banked about $5,000 towards college etc.)

 

DD's now ex-boyfriend wants to be a social worker. He is taking max student loans and working full-time. So far he has had to drop one or two classes each term as he just can not work and go to school full-time (minor learning disabilities - he is smart, but his brain just can't learn and retain material as easily as others can). His mom expects him to pay her several hundred dollars a month for rent - which means he can't cut back his work hours to have more time to study. I just get angry at her for that - not the way to support a college kid! And a social worker is not going to be able to easily pay off student loans.

 

Students nowadays NEED help, even if it is just room and board at home for free while they attend the local school. Costs have gone up too high since we were their age (gosh I sound old now!)

Edited December 27, 2017 by JFSinIL

[regentrude]

Maybe you have addressed this before, but wouldn't your kids get free tuition at your school?  Did your school not offer what they needed?

 

No, my kids would not get free tuition. They would get reduced tuition (but not reduced fees). Still, it would be way cheaper than where they are attending now.

 

However, my school does not offer what my kids need. 

For DD, this was simply not the caliber school necessary to challenge her.  And the humanities offerings here are lacking.

For DS, we do not offer the degree program he was interested in. Nor did the other state colleges within the system.

And with both kids doing a dual major in physics, attending the school where both their parents are physics faculty would have not been acceptable.

Edited December 27, 2017 by regentrude

[cjzimmer1]

If my daughter worked 40 hours a week year round and paid zero taxes she still wouldn’t earn enough to pay for her state school room, board, and tuition. Never mind her not having time to study and go to class. If she lived at home, commuted, and worked part time (again, ignoring taxes on her wages.) She STILL wouldn’t earn enough. Maybe if she had the foresight to start working part time in high school? I’m not sure when she would’ve done her homework. High school work is no joke in my town.

 

A generation ago, it was entirely possible to pay your way with summer jobs and very part time during school. That’s not a thing anymore. There’s no character lesson here. When people say “Dh and I did it so we think our kids should too.†I’m not confident that they understand how the numbers are working out right now. That EFC is no joke.

 

I realize that my DS has been very blessed but with his part time job (25 hours a week) plus the extra he makes being on call he will make over 20k this year (I'm ignoring taxes too because I don't have those numbers readily available).  With us providing nearly all of his other expenses other than clothing and fun money, he can save a ton of money.  He's only making an hour or so more than the average pay that Aldi and Walmart are paying too.  The community college is running him about $5k a year but when he transfers to the University we are looking at 19k (if I remember correctly, it's been a while since I looked).  So yeah I do think it's very reasonable to pay his way through.  The last two years at university he will have to dip into savings but that what the years at the community college are for (to build up his savings).  

 

I've done the FAFSA and yeah that EFC is a horribly high number but I still expect DS to pay it.  I've mapped it out for him and showed him how he can make it work.  It's up to him to do that work that will allow to happen.

 

I realize that for a lot of people it doesn't work but I do know quite a few people in my area who are managing to do it debt free on their own so it's not impossible either.  I'm sure having many higher education opportunities in close proximatey plays a big factor for us though.

[Aura]

I probably (as usual) phrased the topic wrongly. It wasn't about what the "right way" is. Yeah, different circumstances will mean different things for different families. The thing is, I never went to college. I didn't deal with it 20+ years ago, so all I have to reference is what we're dealing with now, and... wow.  :willy_nilly: It's ridiculous. 

 

The amount bureaucracy and paperwork and the expense!!! it's enough to make someone run for the hills! I imagine everyone on here to be doing what they can, depending on individual circumstances, but I just wonder how many other feel like I do.

 

Also, I feel really bad for the kids who come from situations where they don't have a someone to help encourage them and decipher all the paperwork and help financially. The amount of hoops that has to be jumped through for aids, etc. can be overwhelming.

 

I know several kids who are close in age to my two college goers. I have a bit better understanding of why they gave up on going to college. You get to the part on FAFSA where there is the expected contribution, and they know that isn't happening. You see these thousands of dollars, and to them, it's like dealing with billions; it is more money than they can comprehend. Without help and support, it's easy to see why they'd see all that paperwork and all the cost as a dead end and choose to keep working in their minimum wage job in hopes of getting promoted enough to be able to make a decent living.

 

I think about several kids who worked under me while I was working at a grocery store. They were very dependable, hard workers, but they didn't come from easy backgrounds. Some tried for college---some made it. Some did/have not.

 

I think about my niece with a single mom pulling long hours and no background in college, either. My niece has had some help from other family, but she gave up on college because it was just too much. Too much expense (seemingly, though she probably could have gotten enough aid) and especially too much paperwork.

 

I think about my nephew who's parents were split and neither went to college, either. His mom has mental issues and is the opposite of helpful. His dad was military and wasn't always around to help. He tried military, but when that didn't work... he gave up, too. 

 

I know there are kids out there who do it all on their own, but I think they are the exception instead of the rule.

 

I just find it incredibly discouraging knowing how many kids are smart, capable but completely overwhelmed.

 

I don't know how it should be, but it just seems all... wrong. Like there has to be a better way than what I've been helping my kids through.

[TravelingChris]

There isn't any should.  Just did my final FAFSA today and it has consistently been ridiculously/  Our FAFSA was too high when we started having a child in college in 2005 (we were living overseas and FAFSA didn't take that into consideration- like that we would have to pay for one roundtrip international flight plus another the first semester since one parent who could drive had to get our nondriving son situated and buy things he needed.  Today's EFC was higher than the cost of any college, AFAIN.   Our original plan was scholarships taking a big chunk and then we pay minus any work that child does.  Child one got 50% scholarship, then he took out zero interest loans (which both he and we are paying) and we paid the rest.  Child #2 was scholarships (fuil tuition) but we paid housing and food, When she got sick, we started paying for online classes and she got loans.  She also got one year of post 9/11 GI bill. Child # 3 got grant that took a nice chunk of the total cost, then we used GI bill, and we paid for remaining costs for this year but for her senior year, back to the last year of GI bill.

 

Like others, we have neglected expensive repairs and renovations and I am so happy we can start doing that starting in June.  Our house needs some repairs and some renovations.

[foxbridgeacademy]

Who do you think should pay for college? You (the parent) or the student/child? How much should each contribute?

 

Do you think it's feasible or practically possible for most students to pay their own way? 

 

And most importantly, what are you doing/plan to do and why?

 

I'll come back later and add to this, but we've got two in college right now, so just curious how it looks for other families.

Who should pay? Parents or even better the government with some help from students if they can work without grades suffering

Is it feasible for students? Not with out borrowing a ton or working themselves to death.... it's not even possible for many/most parents to pay either.

We moved to TN where 1st 2 years are free at CC and 2nd 2 years are greatly reduced by a (no low income requirement) scholarship.

Also DS is saving 1/2 of every paycheck.  Hopefully when he goes to school in a couple years we'll be better off financially (both cars will be paid off, no more child support for DSD, and DH will have finished his BA).  DS can then use his saving for a car or something else since we can pay tuition (he does not want to live on his own).

 

DD will only be able to take advantage of the free tuition for 1st year, her major will likely require her to transfer sooner.  She wants to live on campus (about 15 minute drive  :glare: ) and we've agreed that as long as $$ isn't tight and she pays for housing (probably loans) we'll pay for the rest.

 

If it comes down to it and we can't help at all they are set up (thank you Tennessee Lottery!) to be able to get a full BA/BS for less than $10,000 each as long as they live at home which can be covered from either income or loans.

 

ETA- Our biggest contribution was packing up everything and moving several states away in the wrong direction so that we could take advantage of the amazing scholarships offered in TN.

 

 

Edited December 27, 2017 by foxbridgeacademy

[katilac]

 

  Kid who was a SPED major also took max student loans, as we all figured he'd make enough $ to pay them off. Kid going for a teaching degree - no loans.  

 

What is a SPED major? It stands for special education in my world. 

[PeacefulChaos]

Who do you think should pay for college? You (the parent) or the student/child? How much should each contribute?

 

Do you think it's feasible or practically possible for most students to pay their own way? 

 

And most importantly, what are you doing/plan to do and why?

 

I'll come back later and add to this, but we've got two in college right now, so just curious how it looks for other families.

 

I don't really have an answer to who 'should' pay for college.  I think that's something that varies for everyone.  

 

I don't think a parent should put themselves in financial danger just to pay for a child to go to college.  I think they need to worry about 1. the present survival and 2. retirement.  Paying for their kids' college comes after those two.  

 

Honestly, student loans are a way of life for most people.  Does it suck?  Yes.  But in many cases, there is literally nothing else that can be done. 

 

I was a ward of the state so I had very little in student loans.  DH had more because his parents just couldn't afford to help.  I really think that the idea that everyone should be able to help their kid pay for college is unrealistic.  I also think it's completely wrong for anyone to assume that if a parent can't afford to pay their kid's way, that the kid doesn't deserve college.  

 

More than likely, we will not be able to help pay for college for our kids.  It is what it is.  We are a part of the working middle class and there's just no way that's going to happen unless a completely unforeseen windfall comes our way.  :lol:  Link is planning on graduating high school with his associates degree and transfer credits to a larger school (at least right now that's his plan lol) - if he decides to wait and do a couple years of local college or more than that, whatever, he can live here if he wants, etc.   We'll do what we can to be 'helpful' but paying for college will most likely not be plausible.

[Ali in OR]

In my ideal world, parents pay. If the older generation can pay for the younger by saving (not by loans), interest is working for the family instead of against it. Instead of paying off student loan debt, savings accumulate some interest in the years leading up to college. This can work in a family where previous generations paid for the kids. My parents paid for my education and dh's parents paid for his, so we had no student loans to pay back. Instead, we could invest that money and save for our kids' educations. Yes, this still depends on having a high enough income to save. It also helps to have kids who will get merit aid, and we will expect them to earn their spending/book money by either working over the summer or working minimal hours during the school year (I "hashed" in the dining hall about 6 hours/week at meal times--didn't affect my study time).

 

OP, I absolutely agree with your second post--the entire system is overwhelming and very hard to navigate without parent/adult help. It really feels like the family needs to have college experience (ie parent with a degree) to know how to navigate the system.  High barriers to entry.

[littlebug42]

Paying for college will be a joint effort for us.  My husband works for a local university where we qualify for reduced tuition so that possibility is there for both children.  However, I strongly feel that it is not the right for my dd16.  I think if we try to force her to go to school there, she will not be happy because it just isn't a good fit for her.  I think she will drop out before she finishes just like my nephew did with the same school.  

 

Unfortunately, based on the estimated calculators, our EFC is going to be prohibitively high.  There is no way either of us could cover it alone.  It will be a struggle to cover it anyway.  We have a little money saved.  She will need to strive for merit aid.  She will have to take some loans.  She is currently doing dual enrollment at our local CC so that will hopefully cut out up to a year of general education requirements. 

 

Younger dd will be a different story.  The university my dh works for is a better fit for her.  She is now also doing dual enrollment and will be able to knock out much more of her college there.  She really wants to graduate debt free.   We will support both to the extent that we can.  

 

 

[Tap]

I think every family should do what is right for them and each child individually.

 

 

For us....

 

We live in a city with MANY colleges and within easy driving distance of many more. 

 

If my kids are living at home (or living somewhere else rent free) I will pay all of their expenses, except tuition/books.  The student can apply for scholarships and work for tuition.   I may pay for some books but it literally has to do with how much available money I have at the time.   They can earn their own spending money.  I feel that since they are paying tuition, they will try hard to make the best education choices they can in regards to class selection and changing majors. 

 

 

My reasons....

 

I don't want the kids to move out pay rent/utilities just to gain a false sense of freedom/adult life while I foot the bill for their schooling.  I feel that if they can afford to live on their own, then they can pay their own education expenses too. 

 

If they are frugal and pay their tuition, are in good standing in college with grades and are being responsible family members, I will pay all of their expenses like phone, car, gas etc. 

 

I do not want my kids to try to work full time and lose focus on their education. I want them to enjoy college and young adulthood..  That being said, so far both of my college age kids have worked and saved money to pay their tuition bills and greatly appreciate the freedom of working part time while in school (vs their friends who juggle full time work with college). 

 

If one of them had a major that wasn't available in our area and needed to attend school too far away to live at home, that would be handled as a case by case, as far as me paying their living expenses. 

 

 

Ds23 has 2 BAs from a private college and a 1 year Masters and will have all of his education paid off next month before he graduates with his MA in May.  

 

DD19 just started college but already has several thousand in saving earmarked for only tuition AND has a scholarship that will cover the next 4 quarters of her tuition.  She doesn't live at home, but lives at her boyfriend's (at his dad's house) and doesn't pay rent/utilities there....so I am willing to continue to pay for her expenses.  It is a positive situation for many reasons, but for one reason....the boyfriend plans to be a doctor so he actually helps keep her focus on school since it is a high priority for him as well. 

 

 

So far, for us, it is a good compromise on who pays for what.  For both of them, I have surprised them at times and paid their tuition bills so they can keep more of what they have in savings.  They are both extremely grateful each time I have been able to do this for them. Which makes it all the more worthwhile. :0) 

 

 

Edited December 27, 2017 by Tap

[Amber in SJ]

There was no way for my parents to pay anything for college for me.  They didn't live near a university, so staying home wasn't an option.  I did get a few grants and  scholarships and loans from financial aid.  I worked full-time & sometimes more than full time to pay for everything myself.

 

Dh's family could pay but chose not to.  They also wouldn't release their tax information for dh to apply for financial aid for the first 3 years of college for him because they continued to claim him on their taxes even though he was not living there & they did not support him at all.  He also worked full time until he was laid off the last year of college.

 

Our family plan has always been we pay for everything college related for the first year.  They work in the summer or on campus for spending money.  The second year we pay for tuition & books and they pay for housing & everything else.  We also keep them on our phone plan & health insurance.  Year three & beyond is up to them.  They have both needed to take loans,  I wish they didn't have to, but we can't afford anything more.

 

We do what we can, but it is not our responsibility.  Because of our choices we are not able to save enough for us to pay for college.  By choices I mean we chose to have a large family, to homeschool, to have one parent stay home, and to live in a high COL area.  

 

Amber in SJ

[Laura Corin]

We put aside some money when times were good. Under the Scottish system, they can get interest free loans, repayable when their income reaches a threshold.

 

But the biggest thing we did was to, with this in mind, move to the UK to allow them to access reasonable fees.

[musicianmom]

*

Edited May 21, 2022 by musicianmom

[JFSinIL]

 

 

 

 

 

What is a SPED major? It stands for special education in my world. 

 

 

aargh you caught a typo (of which I am Queen btw) I do have a son with autism so SPED is a common term here - obviously I meant to type STEM. Will go back and fix it now ;-)

[G5052]

The plan was to pay for tuition, and they'd live at home and pay for the rest with part-time jobs.

 

Now I'm tighter as a single parent, and I had to change that. My oldest is paying for all of his with the National Guard. I told my younger one that right now I'll just pay for community college and her first semester at the 4-year like we did for her brother, and she'll have to do loans or work for the rest. That may change though, and a relative has said that they will help.

[MarkT]

1)  DS worked very hard during HS and earned significant merit scholarships to his college choices

2)  I pay for the rest (not cheap but planned)

 

[All California schools that DS was interested in were eliminated because they cost a small fortune to AZ residents]

 

Build a cost spreadsheet on day one of your college search.

[Wheres Toto]

Oldest dd had a mix.  Under my divorce agreement we paid half and her dad paid half.  She was responsible for her room & board because theoretically she could live at home (but super-crappy dangerous commute).  Now she's going back from grad school and her grandmothers are giving her money to help get started, then she'll get loans and do research projects (hopefully).

 

For the younger guys, we'll probably have them start at the CC depending on what they want to study.  Ds wants to do college online from home and it would likely be possible for his interest.  But, he's 12 so who knows how things will change.  Right now, dd10 is interested in marine biology, which obviously needs to be done on campus.  Luckily we have good programs in-state if she continues with that interest.

[Crimson Wife]

I don't think parents have any obligation to fund post-high school education.

 

I also believe that students who are actually 4 year college material can find ways to make getting that education reasonably affordable, whether through joining the military, getting a job that will offer tuition assistance, merit scholarships, or some combination of the above.

 

My oldest will likely go the associate's and transfer to a UC route. We can definitely fully fund that if she commutes to Berkeley or Davis for her last 2 years. UCLA we'd be able to cover the tuition and have to see how much of the living costs we could afford to cover.

 

Our DS is aiming at a STEM career so he might be trying for merit scholarships or ROTC to pay for 4 years at university.

[Crimson Wife]

Well, "should"...problem is contribution is expected and calculated into financial aid.  I don't think this is fair, but it's a fact.  So refusing any kind of help when it is determined you are supposed to help could potentially render it difficult or impossible for the student to go to school. 

 

B.S.

 

Students whose parents refuse to help can wait until they're 24 and/or join the military and/or find other ways of paying for college like getting a job at UPS or Starbucks or any of the other companies that offer employee assistance. Where there's a will, there's a way.

[elegantlion]

I haven’t read the thread. I do know that what my parents did was a very good thing at the time.

 

I went to an in-state university.

 

They paid tuition and books. I worked a summer job and set aside 50% for school, 50% for fun. I worked 15 hours a week work-study. This let me graduate debt free.

 

This is not possible anymore. Tuition increase rates have WAY oustripped minimum wage rate increases. So it is time to think carefully about the route one takes...and not to make assumptions based in the past.

 

One of my friends that just graduated put herself through school. She lives with a significant other and had a child in the meantime. She worked part-time while in school and more in the summers. It took her 10 years to graduate. Thing is, she has another income in the household, is extremely frugal, qualified for some grants, earned scholarships, and had help with childcare before her child was school age. She also found her permanent job through an internship, so she met her goal, but it wasn't easy or quick. She has great long-term vision and discipline with a great support system. 

[MinivanMom]

*snip*

 

I believe in having kids work. My 12yo already has a regular babysitting gig. I just don’t think it’s reasonable to expect them to work to fully fund their college and living expenses. If it were possible to make that much money with only a high school diploma, then college wouldn’t be quite so essential, now would it?

 

This.

 

Dh and I both had parents that wouldn't help (refused to even fill out the FAFSA). I was able to fully fund my college, because I had an academic scholarship and was able to earn enough to cover my living expenses by working full-time in the summer and part-time during the school year. I don't think that would be possible today since living expenses have gone way up. Dh got through with a combination of choosing a lower-tier (cheaper) school, loans (once we got married & he could complete the FAFSA w/out his parents' info), and working full-time. It was rough, and dh was 29 with six-figure debt by the time he finished grad school.

 

My lack of family support was understandable, because I grew up poor and was a first-gen student. But I still feel bitter about the way dh's parents treated him. Nobody owes their child a college education, but I don't have much respect for parents with advanced degrees and plenty of $$$ who refuse to even fill out the FAFSA for their kid. FIL put himself through school by working (back in the 60's), so he thought his son should be able to just go out and get a job that would pay for everything. But trying to put yourself through college in the 90's wasn't the same as washing dishes to pay your tuition in the 60's. And paying for college today is nothing like paying for college in the 90's. The barriers for first-gen students and kids without parental support are huge.

 

I strongly believe that in today's world, parents need to do everything possible to help their children. For some families without $$$ to spend, that could mean just filling out the Fafsa and helping their kids to research colleges & scholarship opportunities. For other families, it could mean providing a place to live while their kids commute to cc or to a local university or paying for incidentals like travel, cell phones, med insurance, etc. For families with the $$$, it can mean paying part of the tuition or even paying all expenses. 

 

Dh and I weren't able to save early on, because we spent so many years paying off dh's student loans. But we will do everything we can to reduce that burden for our own children. 

[flyingaway]

It took 306 hours of minimum wage work to pay for a public university in 1973-76. By 2003-2006 it took 4459 hours of minimum wage work to pay for a public university. Source: National Center of Education statistics.

 

It pains me when people say, well, I paid for my own college and they can, too. It's a lot harder out there than it used to be. I know not everyone is in a position to help, but I cannot wrap my head around the thinking of those who are, but refuse to do so.

[Crimson Wife]

It took 306 hours of minimum wage work to pay for a public university in 1973-76. By 2003-2006 it took 4459 hours of minimum wage work to pay for a public university. Source: National Center of Education statistics.

 

It pains me when people say, well, I paid for my own college and they can, too. It's a lot harder out there than it used to be. I know not everyone is in a position to help, but I cannot wrap my head around the thinking of those who are, but refuse to do so.

 

We're not refusing to help, but we are refusing to limit our family size out of this notion that parents are obligated to fully fund 4 years' residential tuition at a private college. If our kids need to do CC-and-transfer-to-a-UC or ROTC like DH did because we didn't stop at the number of children we could afford to put through Stanford debt-free, that doesn't make us irresponsible.

 

College is ultimately the responsibility of the individual IMHO and any family assistance is a generous gift rather than something owed to that individual.

[regentrude]

We're not refusing to help, but we are refusing to limit our family size out of this notion that parents are obligated to fully fund 4 years' residential tuition at a private college. 

 

Where did anybody say parents had to do this? I have not encountered anybody on these boards who ever voiced an opinion like this.

Edited December 27, 2017 by regentrude

[teachermom2834]

Sure, where there is a will there is a way. Some kids will rise above all circumstances and pay their own way somehow.

 

For my kids that bar is a little too high. My kids are the type that will do well in college and benefit from a 4 year degree. But if they had to do completely on their own I am not sure they would have that level of motivation and know how. I applaud those who do, but superhuman (perhaps exaggerating 😉) motivation is not the bar I want to set for my kids to have college degrees.

 

That said, we so far have paid very little. I do expect them to be focused on making every penny they can over summers and my oldest has made most of his expenses and tuition working HARD in warehouses all summer and taking basic federal loans. That is enough skin in the game for me and this year we will cover about $2000. I can't imagine as hard as he works over summers and then making excellent grades how demoralized he would be to still fall short.

 

Basically so far mine choose from the few most affordable schools they can. Luckily they do get some merit aid. They then take basic federal loans and earn and save as much as they can. Once those conditions are met we will step in to fill the gap. They know they have to be responsible and do their part to contribute as much as they can but they don't have to worry they can't buy books or they'll have to drop out if they run out of money.

 

That is how we work together - parents and kids. It has worked well so far.

 

I do hope to help pay off loans or even pay them off in full for successful completion of degrees. That should be able to happen but we have made no promises as circumstances can change. I have also told them that we would not pay back loans if they don't finish. This seems to be enough for the oldest ones to take ownership and value their educations while still feeling the support and safety net of their parents.

[elegantlion]

I should not have used the word "impossible," actually.  But my circumstance was fairly normal in my day and now it is more exceptional.  :0)

 

I posted without adding my commentary. I agree with you that it was possible then and nearly impossible now. My friend is the fortunate exception, who had help, great discipline, and that long-term vision. I can't imagine everyone is willing to put their post degree life on hold for a decade. She took the route of previous generations, but needed over twice as long and another household income to make it happen. 

[Crimson Wife]

Where did anybody say parents had to do this? I have not encountered anybody on these boards who ever voiced an opinion like this.

The most common reason I hear for people claiming they “can’t afford another child†that they claim they would like is college. I don’t think that is a legitimate reason to limit family size. I am not “quiverfull†but to my mind helping with college is a luxury rather than an obligation

 

 

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[Laura Corin]

The most common reason I hear for people claiming they “can’t afford another child†that they claim they would like is college. I don’t think that is a legitimate reason to limit family size. I am not “quiverfull†but to my mind helping with college is a luxury rather than an obligation

 

 

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It's legitimate for that family, just not for yours because you have different views on the issue.

[madteaparty]

The most common reason I hear for people claiming they “can’t afford another child†that they claim they would like is college. I don’t think that is a legitimate reason to limit family size. I am not “quiverfull†but to my mind helping with college is a luxury rather than an obligation

 

 

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I can’t afford another child because I believe in paying for 4 yrs plus grad school (if I can). I think having another child, for me, would be a luxury I can’t afford. You think paying for college is a luxury. To each her very own.

[regentrude]

The most common reason I hear for people claiming they “can’t afford another child†that they claim they would like is college. I don’t think that is a legitimate reason to limit family size. 

 

Who are you to decide what is a "legitimate" reason for another family to limit their family size?

[Crimson Wife]

I can’t afford another child because I believe in paying for 4 yrs plus grad school (if I can). I think having another child, for me, would be a luxury I can’t afford. You think paying for college is a luxury. To each her very own.

 

Babies are blessings, not burdens. I don't believe that means couples should have as many children as they biologically could, but there needs to be a serious reason to avoid. Serious as in "we couldn't afford basics like housing, food, and healthcare without government assistance" not as in "we couldn't foot the bill for pricey private college and grad school" :rolleyes:

 

[regentrude]

Babies are blessings, not burdens. I don't believe that means couples should have as many children as they biologically could, but there needs to be a serious reason to avoid. Serious as in "we couldn't afford basics like housing, food, and healthcare without government assistance" not as in "we couldn't foot the bill for pricey private college and grad school"

 

Parents simply not wanting more than X children seems a serious enough reason to me.

Limits to parents' patience, their time, their energy, their resources, and their desire to parent are serious reasons to limit the number of their offspring. And people who find there are already enough humans on earth and limit to replacement rate or forgo procreation entirely have serious reasons as well.

Edited December 28, 2017 by regentrude

[Crimson Wife]

So, what do you view your obligation is as the parents who brought the child into the world?

 

Meeting that child's basic needs until he/she is both at least 18 and a high school graduate. If the child is disabled and cannot live independently as an adult, then supporting that child as long as the parents are able to.

 

I don't consider helping with post-high school education to be the parents' obligation, though it is a generous gift that we plan to do to the best of our ability assuming decent progress towards the degree.

[Crimson Wife]

Parents simply not wanting more than X children seems a serious enough reason to me.

Limits to parents' patience, their time, their energy, their resources, and their desire to parent are serious reasons to limit the number of their offspring. And people who find there are already enough humans on earth and limit to replacement rate or forgo procreation entirely have serious reasons as well.

 

I don't believe Earth has an overPOPULATION problem but rather an overCONSUMPTION one. If everyone lived modestly and made efforts to conserve (something that MANY, though certainly not all, childless and single-child families do an absolutely dreadful job at), then there would be plenty of resources to support a larger population.

 

[Lilaclady]

At least in engineering we have found it to be true - if you’re not minority or female there is very little available. Not even for extremely good grades, top tier test scores, and extracurriculars.

That is because those scholarships are specifically targeting girls to try and achieve parity. They already have lots of white guys in engineering but few minorities and girls. Do you see the same with humanities courses?