Who pays for college?

[Lilaclady]

I don't believe Earth has an overPOPULATION problem but rather an overCONSUMPTION one. If everyone lived modestly and made efforts to conserve (something that MANY, though certainly not all, childless and single-child families do an absolutely dreadful job at), then there would be plenty of resources to support a larger population.

 

I think you want to increase your family size Crimson wife and that is something that is between you and your DH and no one else. You don’t have to justify your choice to anyone but you also have to be accepting of other’s choices. You can choose to have as many as you want and others have the right to choose to not have any at all.

[creekland]

The most common reason I hear for people claiming they “can’t afford another child†that they claim they would like is college. I don’t think that is a legitimate reason to limit family size. I am not “quiverfull†but to my mind helping with college is a luxury rather than an obligation.

 

I suppose you don't think much of our reason for not having more... we wanted to be able to travel and share the many loves of our lives with our kids.  ;)

 

Of course, college was "a" love, but there was so much more (travel, eating out, movies at the theater, museums, fairs w/rides and games, snorkeling, scuba, ponies, etc).  We would NOT have been able to do all we've done with more kids.  We simply didn't/don't have enough $$.

 

Our decision was easy and absolutely no regrets.

 

YMMV  As can anyone's.  We all choose what we want our kids to experience on our dime.  The number of dimes we all have can vary too.

 

For us, it takes a certain number of dimes to be able to share experiences that we really enjoy.

[Sandwalker]

I don't believe Earth has an overPOPULATION problem but rather an overCONSUMPTION one. If everyone lived modestly and made efforts to conserve (something that MANY, though certainly not all, childless and single-child families do an absolutely dreadful job at), then there would be plenty of resources to support a larger population.

 

That sounds so judgy.

[Dmmetler]

Right now, we’re paying-options for 13 yr olds are pretty limited, and honestly, DD taking classes at the CC costs less than many other options. DD’s safety is to stay in-state. She will have at least 2 years of fully transferable credit, and is currently eligible for about half tuition just based on automatic scholarships due to grades/test scores, possibly more. We can fully fund that, even though the majors that she wants aren’t available locally.

 

If she wants to go farther away, she’ll need to be able to pay more somehow-scholarships, co-ops, etc. She’s already collecting a few small scholarships here and there to add to what we have available, and is likely to continue to do so.

 

Realistically, DD’s field is one where it really isn’t uncommon to have to at least partially fund your graduate research h. DD has helped to fund multiple grad student projects. So we’re looking at having to pay not just for undergrad, but for part of grad work as well, because while teaching assistanceships are common in her field, you cannot get a degree without research.

 

 

I will also say that I kind of mentally put some of what I pay for conferences, short courses, and other professional activities in the “college†basket. Just spread out over a longer period of time.

[KungFuPanda]

The most common reason I hear for people claiming they “can’t afford another child†that they claim they would like is college. I don’t think that is a legitimate reason to limit family size. I am not “quiverfull†but to my mind helping with college is a luxury rather than an obligation

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Some people feel like having a lot of kids is a luxury the can’t afford and not an obligation. It’s expensive to raise and support kids today.

[KungFuPanda]

At least in engineering we have found it to be true - if you’re not minority or female there is very little available. Not even for extremely good grades, top tier test scores, and extracurriculars.

I know six kids who have received significant STEM/engineering scholarships this year and they’re ALL white males. As a group they do not seem to have a problem with access.

[Rosie_0801]

It depends on the system.

 

Here (AU), fees are deferred and also state subsidised. Children pay fees back through the taxation system once their income increases over a certain threshold. 

 

So, my kids will pay for their education, at a later date.

 

Of course, we subsidise  their living expenses while they study. 

 

 

And thank goodness for that system! Otherwise the likes of our children would not have access to tertiary education!

 

 

My dd will have to pay for her own. I still have the deferred loan Sadie is talking about, and it is about $300 more than my superannuation. I expect my brother and I to help out with her living expenses because it is very, very unlikely she will choose to live at home, and I'm in a rural area so there aren't as many options. The government student payments are too low to live on and she's not the genius student who have enough hours in the day to work full time and study full time. She will have a much longer life to deal with those loans than I'll have to build my super.

 

Or maybe she'll stick to her current plan of doing a carpentry apprenticeship, which would be much cheaper! 

[Frances]

We're not refusing to help, but we are refusing to limit our family size out of this notion that parents are obligated to fully fund 4 years' residential tuition at a private college. If our kids need to do CC-and-transfer-to-a-UC or ROTC like DH did because we didn't stop at the number of children we could afford to put through Stanford debt-free, that doesn't make us irresponsible.

 

College is ultimately the responsibility of the individual IMHO and any family assistance is a generous gift rather than something owed to that individual.

I'm having a difficult time squaring your final sentence with posts from another thread awhile ago where you were complaining about how unfair it was that your parents hadn't given you the same amazing vacations, including to Europe, that they gave younger siblings. So funding education is a generous gift, but funding European and nice American (not camping if I recall correctly) vacations was owed to you?

[Frances]

The most common reason I hear for people claiming they “can’t afford another child†that they claim they would like is college. I don’t think that is a legitimate reason to limit family size. I am not “quiverfull†but to my mind helping with college is a luxury rather than an obligation

 

 

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I just think it's wonderful for people to be actually be thinking things through before they have children, regardless of how many they ultimately decide to have.

 

And personally, I feel any reason for limiting your number of children is valid. It's a decision everyone should make for themselves.

Edited December 28, 2017 by Frances

[bettyandbob]

I think it's interesting to see opinions of people who are not that close to having DC making decisions about college. Everything is different where you are eye to eye with a situation.

 

Having some fluidity on handling the variety of circumstances DC throw at you is important. All kinds of things could happen.

 

I was a much better parent before I had kids.

[madteaparty]

Babies are blessings, not burdens. I don't believe that means couples should have as many children as they biologically could, but there needs to be a serious reason to avoid. Serious as in "we couldn't afford basics like housing, food, and healthcare without government assistance" not as in "we couldn't foot the bill for pricey private college and grad school" :rolleyes:

 

😂🙄

[2squared]

I think it's interesting to see opinions of people who are not that close to having DC making decisions about college. Everything is different where you are eye to eye with a situation.

 

Having some fluidity on handling the variety of circumstances DC throw at you is important. All kinds of things could happen.

 

I was a much better parent before I had kids.

This was me. Of course, back when I had different thoughts about college all mine were littles and I loved staying home homeschooling them. My heart broke when I had to go back to work FT. But, now I can see that change was probably for the better. My kids are thriving in their public/parochial schools, our income has tripled since then, and we can now afford the things I want for our bigger kids. We just started college savings when my olderest hit high school, and the decision for me to go back to work four years prior gives us financial flexibility to make room for college savings.

 

I used to think they would find a way to pay for their own way through college. Dh and I did it, and we didn't have room to save anyway. It was so far away; mothering and teaching my five littles were all-encompassing at the time. I hadn't looked into the actual cost of today's college or how limited funding options kids actually have. I also hadn't thought through how standard college degrees would become and that my kids will likely need masters for their college degrees to get the same financial lift I received from my undergrad degree. so much has changed since then. I look at my 15yo today and my thought processes about funding college are completely different than they were 5 or 10 years ago. .

[Pawz4me]

 

Or maybe she'll stick to her current plan of doing a carpentry apprenticeship, which would be much cheaper! 

 

I wish there were more female handywomen, plumbers, electricians, etc. I'm not the type to be overly cautious or get spooked easily, but I do feel more than a tad wary sometimes when a man is here doing a prolonged job and I'm the only family member home. When we had our bathroom floors replaced I was SO glad it was a husband/wife team who did the work. It may have been a false sense of security, but I felt so much safer/more relaxed with another female present.

Edited December 28, 2017 by Pawz4me

[DawnM]

The most common reason I hear for people claiming they “can’t afford another child†that they claim they would like is college. I don’t think that is a legitimate reason to limit family size. I am not “quiverfull†but to my mind helping with college is a luxury rather than an obligation

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

I think it is entirely reasonable to say, "We can do X amount and that is it.  You will need to either go to school within that money frame or fund it yourself."  It is also reasonable to say, "We can't afford any of it, so you will need to find a way to fund college," if you truly have no funds.

 

We had planned to pay local 4 year college for 4 years and living at home.  Those plans have changed a bit, as my oldest needed a specialty program only available away from home, but he started at CC and is paying for part of it, so we have worked it out.

 

What I don't understand is parents who can help, but won't.  It just isn't in my frame of reference.  In fact, the one that bothered me the most was the family who paid $10K per year for their kids to each attend K-12, equalling over $100,000 per kid, and then refused to pay for college.  And then they were upset when a kid dropped out of college.  

[DawnM]

I think it's interesting to see opinions of people who are not that close to having DC making decisions about college. Everything is different where you are eye to eye with a situation.

 

Having some fluidity on handling the variety of circumstances DC throw at you is important. All kinds of things could happen.

 

I was a much better parent before I had kids.

I will repeat.  We were very adamant that our kids didn't need a "sleep away camp for 4 years on our dime" parents.  Yup, local 4 year school, 2 year CC first even better, and live at home.  You want more, you pay that portion yourself.

 

And yet, here we are.....oldest heading off to PRIVATE school, in the dorms, mostly on our dime (he is taking out the subsidized loan), getting a degree we never said we would pay for.

 

:lol:  :lol:  :lol:

 

This is our kid we didn't think would finish high school.  He is ASD and struggles.  We are thrilled for him.  He has found his passion and is pursuing it.  We will make every effort to see that it happens.  

[Wheres Toto]

I think it's interesting to see opinions of people who are not that close to having DC making decisions about college. Everything is different where you are eye to eye with a situation.

 

Having some fluidity on handling the variety of circumstances DC throw at you is important. All kinds of things could happen.

 

I was a much better parent before I had kids.

 

I was just thinking about this.  I didn't really answer on what we PLAN to do.  I answered with what we did for oldest dd (which was an unusual situation) and what my kids seemed interested in, but not what our intentions were to pay for the younger guys.

 

We will likely do similar to what we did for oldest (without having to get agreement from an ex) and pay for tuition and room & board (through loans if necessary) but encourage them to start at CC or stay in-state.   We would expect them to work starting at 16 or so (it's actually pretty easy for teens to get jobs around here) and continue in school for spending money.   We will likely provide transportation as long as it's financially possible.  But we also plan to be pretty flexible because they are 10 and 12 at the moment.  Who knows what their interests will be at the time.  We are lucky enough to live in an area with a lot of in-state options though.

 

My parents could help in a very limited way.  My dad refused to help and my mother didn't have any money to spare.  I had scholarships and student loans when I started, had to stop for a year to work, went back locally for another year, had to stop again to work, had a job that would pay for school for a degree I didn't really want but I went for it since at that point I had pretty much given up on my dream and just needed to make a living so went back for another year or so locally having to put the money out and get reimbursed (so very part-time since that was all I could afford), then was laid-off and went on a state program for people who were unemployed with a completely different major and program than my first two, got divorced and couldn't finish/had to go back to full-time work right away to support us, finished up a degree in my initial study plan (Biology), then finished up a degree in my second study plan (Business, Marketing) through Thomas Edison, while working full time.   I received my first degree when I was 32 and my second when I was 35.   

 

Yeah, I'm not going to encourage my kids to follow my "plan".   :glare:   Jobs with tuition reimbursement aren't as easy to find these days.  Some that do, only reimburse a small percentage.

 

For those who want their kids to do college "on their own", are you okay with not seeing grandchildren until they finish school?   Many people don't want to start families until they are done with school, and it's certainly easier to do in that order, but military, paying as you go can postpone completion for quite a while.  Kids adds one more responsibility that may make it less likely they will finish their degrees.

Edited December 28, 2017 by Where's Toto?

[Aura]

I will repeat.  We were very adamant that our kids didn't need a "sleep away camp for 4 years on our dime" parents.  Yup, local 4 year school, 2 year CC first even better, and live at home.  You want more, you pay that portion yourself.

 

And yet, here we are.....oldest heading off to PRIVATE school, in the dorms, mostly on our dime (he is taking out the subsidized loan), getting a degree we never said we would pay for.

 

:lol:  :lol:  :lol:

 

This is our kid we didn't think would finish high school.  He is ASD and struggles.  We are thrilled for him.  He has found his passion and is pursuing it.  We will make every effort to see that it happens.  

I love this! It's so easy to be absolutely certain that when *we* get to be parents we're going to do/not do *x-y-z*.  :lol:  And then you get there, and life hits you smack in the face, and it's your child who's working, trying hard, being hurt, becoming more mature, etc.... and you realize that your best laid plans are crap and you toss them out and do what needs to be done. Ah, life.  :driving:  :laugh:

 

Not saying that plans shouldn't be made! Just that life has that nasty habit of pointing out our arrogance and making us reconsider our choices. 

[Pippen]

I think it is entirely reasonable to say, "We can do X amount and that is it.  You will need to either go to school within that money frame or fund it yourself."  It is also reasonable to say, "We can't afford any of it, so you will need to find a way to fund college," if you truly have no funds.

 

We had planned to pay local 4 year college for 4 years and living at home.  Those plans have changed a bit, as my oldest needed a specialty program only available away from home, but he started at CC and is paying for part of it, so we have worked it out.

 

What I don't understand is parents who can help, but won't.  It just isn't in my frame of reference.  In fact, the one that bothered me the most was the family who paid $10K per year for their kids to each attend K-12, equalling over $100,000 per kid, and then refused to pay for college.  And then they were upset when a kid dropped out of college.  

 

We have never made any promises to our children in regards to college costs, and have encouraged them all along to make affordable decisions when it comes to college. 

 

When the time came we were able to help some, but we never locked into any set arrangements (like paying tuition) or dollar amounts. Some years all we've needed to cover were the cost of books, at times we've covered food service, dorms, or partial tuition, and there will be some upcoming semesters where we will likely be picking up most or all of a few tuition payments. We won't have spent equal dollar amounts on our kids--but we will have achieved the goal of getting everyone through. We pay all health and car insurance costs, clothing costs, phones, and help with gas and food and vehicles as we can. Spending money is up to them. 

 

We figured ours would most likely live at home and attend the local university, but all three of them have taken different paths. One did two years at CC, then established residency in a state where tuition is cheaper. He's working almost full time and will graduate with $5,000 in subsidized loans. Middle got an in-state tuition waiver at a college he wanted to attend. The third also went out-of-state because it was the top choice, plus the aid was better. Everyone is working in summer, and with one exception, while in school. We did tell everyone up front that we wouldn't cosign or take out parent loans. They were grumbly with that when they were first shopping for colleges and were looking at what seemed like outrageous costs, but have come to realize it was a wise choice in the end. The younger two will graduate with $20,000 in federal student loans, and we're encouraging them to pay them off as soon as possible once they graduate.  

Edited December 28, 2017 by Pippen

[Sneezyone]

We’re privileged to be in the positions we are. Between the GI Bill (which DH didn’t use because we self funded/used tuition assistance for his BA and MA) and our savings, both kids can go wherever they want/get in. They also have EXTREMELY generous godparents and aunties with no kids so a couple, five hundred in ‘earnings’ for making good grades is not at all unusual for our oldest.

 

If we didn’t pay for college (which we plan to do, no question), I think there would definitely be resentment. We’ve taken so many family trips and had amazing experiences and I could totally see them wondering why that money didn’t go to needs first and wants second.

 

...just offering a different perspective. For us, it would be unconscionable not to pay.

Edited December 28, 2017 by Sneezyone

[Scarlett]

I haven't read most of the replies. I would gladly pay reasonable amounts for college if I could. When my son was born xh and I had a pretty solid plan of having the house paid for before ds was 18 so we could pay for college. As you know that didn't work out so well. So I have no money to help ds. In fact I lose my substantial cs just as he needs help,with college. The help I can give him is room and board and pay for his phone and be his go to person for navigating the process. Thankfully xh is able and willing to pay for Ds's college.

 

I don't know about Dss. We can offer the same help to him as to ds but I don't know how he will pay for college. He wants to be a chef and I am not sure he NEEDS college for that, but he wants a 2 year degree from a nearby college which wouldn't be too much money but we literally cannot afford it. Maybe his mom will help...otherwise Dss will have to decide if he wants to get loans for it.

[Caroline]

We live in a state with a HOPE scholarship program and some decent universities. My oldest graduated from Georgia Tech last year. We didn’t pay any tuition because he had a full tuition scholarship all the way through. He had to maintain a 3.3 to keep it, and he did. (For those familiar with Georgia, he had the Zell Miller all four years.) It still cost us about $16K for his room and board, books, fees, computer, etc. He has minimal loans to pay back. He got a great job right out of school and is more than halfway done paying off his loans. He is lucky in that his job is 20 minutes from our house. He lives in our basement. He travels more than 2 weeks a month for his job, often overseas. He pays for his car and his car insurance. We don’t charge him rent or for any food that’s in the house. I know some of you will say he’s lazy and mooching off us, but we are family and this is how our family operates. You do for family. He is 12 years older than our youngest, so they are now really getting to know each other.

[6packofun]

I'm of the opinion that families should pay for college.  As in, everyone who CAN help should pitch in to help.  And if you can't or it will affect one's retirement savings or budget, etc. FINE because it's optional and I do think parents have the primary burden.  But we need to get people through college if they really want to go and America is so individualistic about some things that it drives me nuts sometimes.  I look at all of the immigrants who are making money and sending it home to their families--it's very honorable and impressive to me!  (Whether or not they use it for education; there is just this sense that every family member has a duty to make the FAMILY better even if they are living apart.)

 

Now, financial aid should be based on the student's income if they are independent or the parents' if they are dependent as it is now (right?), but I think the financial aid system is too complicated and many times unfair.  I'm not smart enough to say how it should be overhauled and I don't believe in free college for everyone.  There are a LOT of components to this mess, including cost and, honestly, useless required courses and even degrees.

 

My thoughts are utopian, most likely, and I don't see American families ever getting to the point that brothers and sisters and uncles and aunts, etc. all help one another get educated.  I know that to some this should lead to the conclusion that we "all" can help one another by having free college, but I think that is a very different mindset.

[Ann.without.an.e]

I think that this question varies so greatly depending on the family, the family's resources, the student, etc.  In general, college costs have gotten so expensive.  It used to be that one could work part time and cover their costs, for the most part that isn't true anymore.

 

 

For us...

 

DD#1 is in college with a full ride scholarship to a top ten university.  She is a non-issue financial, thank the Lord.  haha

 

DS#2 - we anticipate will go to a local uni and live at home.  We may have him take out the federal loan amount and we will pay the rest?  We haven't decided yet and we will cross that bridge when we get there.

 

DD#3 - is high stats like DD#1 and we are super hopeful that she will earn a good scholarship somewhere.  If not full, she can take on the federal loan and we will try to cover the rest.  

 

DS is younger - who knows what will happen between now and then.  

[wintermom]

We pay. We're doing it right now :)  We don't consider our kids launched until they get a first degree or some occupational/apprenticeship certification.

 

But we're in Canada where education is subsidized, & we expect our kids to live at home until they finish. We live within commuting distance of 2 public universities (one ranked in the top 25 and one ranked in the top 225 in the world) and numerous colleges which have extensive transfer agreements with both the universities. I would be very reluctant to pay for them to move away to university or live in res. Given that pretty much everything they could need for undergrad studies is readily avail here, it would seem like an extravagant whim, and there would have to be big reasons for them to do that & for us to pay for it.

 

As it is, neither of them had any inclination to do that. One has 2 years left for a BScN, the other is still deciding on a major and just filling up his sched with gen ed credits which will go to any major. 

 

 

This is us, too. Two universities and a couple different colleges right in town. Unless they really NEED to live away from home, they should be able to get through their first degree/certificate loan free. After that they are on their own. 

[StephanieZ]

We're not refusing to help, but we are refusing to limit our family size out of this notion that parents are obligated to fully fund 4 years' residential tuition at a private college. If our kids need to do CC-and-transfer-to-a-UC or ROTC like DH did because we didn't stop at the number of children we could afford to put through Stanford debt-free, that doesn't make us irresponsible.

 

College is ultimately the responsibility of the individual IMHO and any family assistance is a generous gift rather than something owed to that individual.

 

I hope you're still here on these forums in 10 years to let us know how well your they-pay-it-themselves plan works out for your family. You might want to get active politically to advocate for affordable college. 

 

When we bring a child into this world, we take responsibility for nurturing and raising them until they are able to take care of thesmelves. That's what penguins do, bears do, pigs do, and that's what humans should do, too. Clearly, the process of raising human beings to self-sufficiency in the modern world is both complex and lengthy.

 

That moral duty to shelter, nurture, and raise our kids . . . does not evaporate when they hit the legal age of majority in your country of residence, IMHO. And, in today's economic climate, letting them fend for themselves at age 18 may well end quite badly. 

 

I think you'll likely have a change of heart when your kids hit the relevant stages of life . . . 

[wapiti]

I hope you're still here on these forums in 10 years to let us know how well your they-pay-it-themselves plan works out for your family.

 

 

I can't help but feel there may be a misunderstanding.  The quote of CW explicitly says they're not refusing to help.

[DawnM]

 

 

My thoughts are utopian, most likely, and I don't see American families ever getting to the point that brothers and sisters and uncles and aunts, etc. all help one another get educated.  I know that to some this should lead to the conclusion that we "all" can help one another by having free college, but I think that is a very different mindset.

 

Help each other get educated?  How?  

[StephanieZ]

I can't help but feel there may be a misunderstanding.  The quote of CW explicitly says they're not refusing to help.

 

TBH, I've seen enough of CW's posts over the years to predict rather confidently that she will do whatever her kids need her to do, as she is clearly a loving and giving mother and loving and giving human being. 

 

However, I am/was responding to this part of her post: "College is ultimately the responsibility of the individual IMHO and any family assistance is a generous gift rather than something owed to that individual." 

 

That "they're on their own at 18 [barring severe medical/developmental dependency, presumably] and whatever we give them is an amazing gift we give" approach has been very present in both the post I directly quoted and earlier similarly themed posts.

 

I'm trying to call her out on her arbitrary delineation of kid vs adult . . . dependent vs independent . . . And suggesting she soften her approach . . . and I'm expecting that she *will* soften her approach by the time her kids need her to . . . as she clearly *is* a lovely human being. 

 

I simply disagree with the premise that providing a college education [and/or other necessary support after 18] is the kid's sole responsibility, and I definitely disagree with the idea that parents assisting a young adult child with something as essential as education is a "generous gift" that is not "owed". Personally, I believe we DO owe our kids reasonable help -- to our best ability and balanced with other family needs including our own retirement/future -- as long as they need it.

 

Kids owe their parents things, too, IMHO. I believe that families are intended (by the universe? by God? by evolution?) to be interdependent, in particular at critical life stages, and that as parents, we have moral duties to our children (and if I were still a theist, I'd argue that one of our highest religious duties, to God, is to care for our children who were entrusted to us!) and that those moral duties are not related to the legal adult status of our child(ren).

 

A child becomes an independent "adult" in my universe/moral world when they are ready to self-support and even to support their own children . . . That doesn't happen at the magic age of 18 in today's complex universe. And, FWIW, sometimes that adult child *needs* help even later, when they are 30 and their spouse dies or, worse, runs off with a hussy and quits working . . . or when that adult child has a child of their own with complex medical needs . . . I believe we *owe* our child help if we can provide it. I would feel an absolute moral duty to assist an adult child in need. In fact, I think each of my parents felt that way, and certainly lived that way -- extending their duty not only to their children but also to their parents and their siblings . . . That is just how they each were, and it is certainly a character trait I value and would aspire to exhibit. 

 

Exactly how to help our adult children is a very complex matter, and it is often very unclear exactly how and how much to help our kids -- it's very hard to know what is in their best interest at times. This is the thing that makes parenting young adults *so hard*, IME. Just because it is hard does not mean it is not vitally important. It's clear what duties we owe to our tiny children, and very easy to know if we're doing what we should do. What our 20 year old kids need is often incredibly hard to figure out. Sometimes we don't know if it's better to provide X or not. I'm not arguing that we have an unlimited duty to "spoil" our young adults. Clearly, it is in their best interests for them to work hard, to contribute, to consider others, to be frugal, to learn to balance wants and needs, etc. So, I don't think we all owe our kids Princeton . . . but I do argue that we *owe* our children, and ourselves, (and the moral authority of the universe/God if you believe in that) our best efforts to support and help those children develop/grow until they have attained self-sufficiency including the ability to support their own future children. Me providing health insurance and college support for my 21 year old is *no more generous* than me providing food and education to my 12 year old. Those things are *just part of being a parent* and since I chose to be a parent (as did we all), I am doing no more than my duty. One would hope that our kids will appreciate our efforts, as having a thankful heart is part of being a good and happy person, but even if they lacked appreciation, that would not release *me* from *my duty as a parent*. 

 

*I appreciate being a mother to my kids* . . . and I'm happy to keep doing my *job of mothering* and I don't expect any parades or applause, even when the job is hard (as it often is for me with my adult kids).

 

My mom's mom did the best she could for her kids -- throughout life. My mom and dad did the best they could for their kids -- throughout life. My dad's parents did the best they could for their son -- throughout their lives. My husband's parents did/do the best they can for their kids. My aunt did/does for her kids . . . So, every ancestor who I've had any significant contact with has lived this principle. It is ingrained in my understanding of what it is to be an adult ==>> an adult takes care of others . . . and that's not just taking care of minor children! My husband and I do the best we can -- for our kids -- for as long as they need us. We expect they'll do the best they can for their kids . . . No parades, no applause . . . It is what it is.

 

I don't require gratitude (although a grateful heart is good, and I do hope I've instilled it already, and hope it comes in the future if I failed to instill it in them as children), but I will expect/demand them to pay it forward to their own kids. Because *that is part of being a good person* and by the time they are raising their own kids, I'd demand/expect them to be grown up enough to be ready to pay it forward. Because, that is what adults do.

Edited December 29, 2017 by StephanieZ

[Cindy in FL.]

We are/Intend to help our kids get through college to the best of our ability. It is a family effort in my opinion. Our guys committed to getting their AA degrees through our local college so they could at least get that far with no debt. Two of the start at UF in January, with one living with family friends (very reasonable cost) and the other commuting. We anticipate being able to get them both through their Bachelors degrees with no debt. They will both be expected to continue working at the family business during the summers, which in turn will help fund their schooling. We plan to do the same for the next two.

Edited December 29, 2017 by Cindy in FL.

[La Condessa]

In regards to alternates to 4-year university post-high school:

 

I'd been thinking about this thread and decided to look up the current costs of the university dh and I attended.  Far less than other private schools, as it is church-subsidized, but still an intimidating figure when multiplied times four years and then times four kids.  Then on a whim, I decided to look up the cost of a lutherie school.  (Obviously pretty silly, since he's just a tiny little guy, but my youngest has been telling us for the past year that he is going to be a violin maker when he grows up.)  Three years of lutherie school actually costs half again as much as four years of university!  

 

I'm laughing at myself, imagining myself years from now hoping he will go with the more economical option of the four-year private university.  :)  

[creekland]

My mom's mom did the best she could for her kids -- throughout life. My mom and dad did the best they could for their kids -- throughout life. My dad's parents did the best they could for their son -- throughout their lives. My husband's parents did/do the best they can for their kids. My aunt did/does for her kids . . . So, every ancestor who I've had any significant contact with has lived this principle. It is ingrained in my understanding of what it is to be an adult ==>> an adult takes care of others . . . and that's not just taking care of minor children! My husband and I do the best we can -- for our kids -- for as long as they need us. We expect they'll do the best they can for their kids . . . No parades, no applause . . . It is what it is.

 

I don't require gratitude (although a grateful heart is good, and I do hope I've instilled it already, and hope it comes in the future if I failed to instill it in them as children), but I will expect/demand them to pay it forward to their own kids. Because *that is part of being a good person* and by the time they are raising their own kids, I'd demand/expect them to be grown up enough to be ready to pay it forward. Because, that is what adults do.

 

This is us too.  We're a unit from birth to death.  I can't imagine otherwise.  There is no "cut off" even for the black sheep.  We learn to live with them (not literally in the same house assuming they are adults - just with their annoying quirks - we learn to ignore a bit).  We assist as necessary whoever needs assisting - not necessarily for fluff expenditures, but definitely when there are needs.

 

Beyond that... we enjoy helping each other and seeing individual members do great things.  We celebrate with each other.  We mourn with each other.  There is no age limit.  If my mom needs help I can provide, I help her.  Same with her to my boys or her adult kids or whatever.  It's just how our family works.

 

I get amazed when I read the Hive seeing how other families operate.  (The same happens at school at times.)