Tell me your "went without medical insurance" stories

[Hyacinth]

I asked earlier about COBRA and unemployment. Nearly everyone who responded agreed that the premiums are ridiculous and that options are few but that going without insurance is simply foolish (paraphrased).

 

I agree, and we are planning to continue with our coverage and hope to hear about a new job very soon. So my questions in this thread aren't really about us. They're just "what-if" ponderings.

 

Let's say you've been laid off and you didn't pick up COBRA or buy from the marketplace and, I don't know, a few months later you find a lump in your breast? Or you're in a terrible car accident requiring multiple surgeries and ongoing PT? Or your child has some unexplained symptoms requiring hospitalization and diagnostic tests? Surely, you go to the doctor or the hospital, right?

 

And then what?

 

Are people turned away for next-step treatments based solely on lack of insurance?

Does the hospital send bills forever and ever, hoping to get something?

If you say you can't pay, can the provider sue or put a lien on a house or a 401K or future earnings?

Do they, as part of their regular service, try to find appropriate programs, foundations, charities, etc., to help pay?

 

Is anyone open to sharing real-life "went without insurance and here's what happened" stories? The good and the bad? (I've had a few of these conversations with friends this week and everyone had opinions about what they assume happens, but none of them had direct experience.)

 

If possible, can we avoid (or s/o to another thread) larger talk of the insurance industry and healthcare legislation and what's wrong with the world and keep this thread about what happens financially/medically to the individual/family in question? Thanks!

 

 

[StephanieZ]

Once, I walked down a train track for hours. I didn't get hit by a train. 

 

Health insurance, I've always had. So can't help you with that one. Life's a gamble. (((hugs))) to all the warriors in the health care nightmare that passes for medicine in the U.S. (I've probably racked up 10k in ER and DR offices in under a month just getting to a preliminary diagnosis of Lyme disease -- should have been simple, right, so I'm not in the mood for gambling on not being insured, despite the nightmare it is.) 

 

[Spryte]

I will try to keep this short. I have mentioned this on the board before: my best friend in my 20s died young. She was an adjunct professor and did not have insurance. She was in a car accident that did not kill her, but broke her sternum and caused a lot of bruising where her seatbelt sat. Unknown at the time, that accident triggered a genetic disease, a blood clotting disorder. It would not have killed her. Nor would have the accident. But the accident caused a lot of clotting in the capillaries around her liver. Her liver was irreparably damaged. She was put on the transplant list, but never got one. She died exactly eight months after the car accident. She left behind a child.

 

She did get Medicaid, a few months in.

 

The subject of what insurance she had, whether she had insurance at all, "oh, no insurance?" came up at every sit down with the docs and surgeons. We were all clear on the cost of the surgeon's time alone, much less the cost of all the other bills and the meds after. It was huge. Enormous. Insurmountable on an adjunct prof's salary.

 

Her mother firmly believes that if she'd had insurance, she'd have survived. There would have been a transplant. I don't know. I can't go there, into the "what if"s. Maybe?

[nixpix5]

Depending upon where you live and what your income is, this will dictate how things were to play out. For example, our Children's hospital in Seattle is ridiculously generous. A family of 5 who makes 10 thousand per month or less can qualify for financial aid to cover bills. Our hospitals will negotiate. If you cannot afford your bill then you can apply for aid or scholarship when you don't have insurance. It isn't this way every where though. We have sliding scale clinics as well for people without insurance.

 

If you rack up a bill they won't sue you. They will hound you and then send your bill to collections who will hound you. It will affect your credit but often times they will work out a payment plan. I have not been in this situation but many of my family members have.

 

I am not sure, however, if you could get long term care for cancer or something like that. Usually it is a pay as you go.

 

My suggestion would be to take whatever you were paying for medical prior if you can swing it and squirrel it away for any medical emergencies. I am sorry you are in this situation. It is really challenging and scary when faced with huge premiums.

[fairfarmhand]

Payments lots of payments. The good thing is that sometimes the hospital, if you prove that you want to pay them by making those payments for a year or two will write off parts of the bill. But it's hard. Very hard.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[catz]

I know a young man who didn't have insurance.  He moved across country while watching some swelling come and go while job hunting.  Finally he got a full time job with insurance.  He had stage 4 melanoma.   He died. 

[goldberry]

My MIL's husband was diagnosed with prostrate cancer that had spread to bone.  After the diagnosis, when the doctor met with them, he said, "You don't have insurance. I don't know what you expect me to do for you without insurance."  Husband was about to qualify for Medicare, but had a problem because the name on his birth certificate didn't match properly.  Took several month (six-ish?) to get fixed and for him to get on Medicare.  The original doctor plus one other one told him to come back when he had it.  He did not have any treatment during the interim months.

 

So to answer your question, Are people turned away for next-step treatments based solely on lack of insurance?  Sometimes, yes they are.

 

Also, had a friend who had an emergency appendectomy with no insurance.  They had to do it because she came in emergent.  The bill was insane though.  She was fairly young (20s) and the bills were sent to collection.  Her credit was ruined and she declared bankruptcy.  Bad for her, bad for everyone else, since that would have been another amount the hospital would have had to absorb (aka pass on to other patients).

Edited June 10, 2017 by goldberry

[Janeway]

It has been 8 months. So far, our medical bills have not exceeded what we would have paid in Cobra. In 8 months, we would have paid 16K in Cobra. Our prescriptions and medical bills total during this time have been less than $1000 for sure, maybe even less than $500. We have five children.

 

For a temporary lapse in coverage, I do not think it is a huge deal. I have had some health concerns during this time, but 16K is just too much. Sometimes, the cost is just too much, and it was. It is what it is.

Edited June 10, 2017 by Janeway

[Word Nerd]

We were without insurance for about a year IIRC. We were fortunate that we didn't have any major medical needs.

 

I also knew someone who was diagnosed with cancer before he was eligible for insurance with a new employer. He joined a drug trial of some kind and tried some other alternative treatments because he couldn't get chemo, but it spread rapidly and he died soon afterward.

[Farrar]

This is soooo minor in the grand scheme of things when people can die without insurance, but I grew up without insurance for stretches and it really warped my view of my own health and how to take care of myself medically in ways that I don't think have been good for me long term. I mean, when you've had the experience of bleeding and needing stitches as a kid and your mother looking at it going, I don't know if we can take care of this (she did, grousing the whole day) I think that can do a number on you in a, I must deny myself needed healthcare whenever possible kind of deep seated way.

[TABmom]

My dh's uncle put off going to the doc because he didn't have insurance. It turned out he had cancer. I don't know all of the details, but it seemed like it was hard for him to get treatment. He died.

[Guest]

We don't have insurance, can't afford it anymore. But we use a health share and that was a better choice for us. Even at the new job we will be starting it makes more sense to do a high deductible HSA plan for us, even though they stink now thanks to the crappy ACA.

[busymama7]

We have now twice in the last few months gotten sub par care at the emergency room due, we have no doubt, to the lack of insurance. We do have a health share and one was the result of an auto accident that wasn't our fault. But both were so blatant it almost comical if it wasn't so sad.

 

In the end, everyone is just fine and the other guys auto insurance will kick in and it hasn't been a huge deal. It did give me a window into another world though after having HMO coverage for decades.

 

Drs and urgent cares have been great though. Happy to take our cash on the spot.

 

I do know of a man who died from cancer as he couldn't get treatment due to no insurance. His family raised money and they tried but it was all too late.

[J-rap]

This isn't a big deal at all compared to other stories you're telling.  But my dd and her dh went without insurance for half a year when they first moved back to the U.S.  Her dh was in an accident where he received a pretty severe concussion.  (He was vomiting, delirious, bleeding from the head and then passed out.)  It happened late at night, and they brought him to the ER.  The ER staff would have done an MRI or CT scan to determine the extent of the concussion and also wanted to put him on an IV (can't remember why exactly) and keep him overnight.  The staff was very kind, but ended up skipping everything except the 12 stitches he needed, and then sent him home.

[sbgrace]

I can share about a close family member. 

 

My BIL had a serious car accident, single car and weather related, that resulted in a traumatic brain injury and broken back. He had a life flight, critical care stay, surgeries, long inpatient stay, and was released to rehab. It was bad, though of course could have been worse. He has lasting issues, but no life-impairing disability in the end. What he did have in the end was huge medical bills and no insurance coverage as he had changed employment at the time of the accident. The new employer wasn't yet covering him. If I am remembering correctly, they hired people as contractors for so long before making them employees and so delayed covering their medical until that point. At any rate, coverage hadn't yet kicked in in the new position. 

 

I never heard any complaint about the care he received at any point. The providers and hospitals worked out payment plans and cut some of the initial billed cost (what a crime that should be imo). I am pretty sure he still paid more by far than an insurance company would, but I don't know that. He paid for a decade or more--I can't remember exactly how long but most of my kids lives. His medical bills are finally paid off.

 

My husband audits government units, including hospitals that take government money. Lots of people don't ever pay in my understanding. Many of those are using high cost emergency care as they have no other options uninusured. Of course all that do pay absorb that to some extent. Our health care system is a mess. 

Edited June 10, 2017 by sbgrace

[Guest]

I will say that without medical insurance (we had the health share but were considered no insurance/cash pay) Benjamin and I did get everything we needed and top of the line treatment for pregnancy, c section, and all the melodramatic nicu crap that followed. We were not denied a single diagnostic or treatment at any point, though we were given the option of declining a few that were expensive and arguably precautionary.

 

I also just went to the ER and had a grossly expensive ambulance ride last week for an allergic reaction, and had no appreciable issues with quality of treatment for that either. All the medicine and nursing I could need and all delivered quickly and well, despite the fact that I had no coverage and didn't even live in state.

 

Just saying, it isn't all drama and death.

Edited June 10, 2017 by Arctic Mama

[katilac]

Can I tell you about the time I thought I was without medical insurance?

 

dh, who was then my fiancee, and I moved to Florida for his job before our wedding. We weren't married yet, so not covered on his insurance. I did get a job that would provide insurance. Before my very first week ended, while I was still in training and learning where the bathroom was, I felt terrible, like I might be getting the flu. dh had to come get me and drive me to urgent care. Urgent care sent me to the emergency room, with stern warnings not to head home first or stop on the way. ER sent me to intensive care - I had a severe kidney infection. I was in intensive care for a couple of days and then a regular room for a couple of days. 

 

I was young and healthy and had never had a kidney infection before in my life, not even a UTI. I had zero typical warning symptoms - I urinated just fine, no pain, no burning, no added frequency, no change in color or smell. The back pain and fever didn't start until the exact day I ended up in intensive care. 

 

The bill was staggering. It was common at the time for insurance not to kick in until 30 days or longer on the job, so we were extremely stressed out because this was going to be a devastating financial blow. 

 

I practically cried in relief when my company (the American Heart Association, god bless 'em) told me I was covered just a few days into the job, even though the paperwork hadn't even been sent to the main office yet!  Our portion of the bill was still pretty breathtaking, but it didn't set us back for years or put us on the financial edge the way not having insurance would have.

 

Now take that same scenario and push it forward a decade or so, when I was a SAHM,  and we were still getting established and really scraping pennies. If that had happened to me for the first time then, and we didn't have insurance, I probably would have tried to put off even urgent care, because I didn't have to go to work, right? Just a few more hours would have probably resulted in my death, or   significant long-term damage to my health at best.

 

Because I did have that experience with near-death and near financial disaster, I would do just about anything to have insurance coverage. Cobble together part-time jobs, sell stuff, cut cable and internet and every other amusement. Pull out of savings, mow lawns, work at Burger King. Anything. Because we do not want to leave our kids without a parent because we hesitated to take on medical bills.   

Yes, people can be turned away for next-step treatment if they lack insurance. The ER's job is to stabilize you. Most of them will not diagnose you unless the cause is obvious. My cousin went to the charity hospital ER several times with severe neck and back pain before they figured out he had cancer. They were treating the pain - they did look for obvious causes but no further. Yes, he did get treated once dx, but it was much too late by then. The charity hospital he was assigned to was excellent at trauma (gunshots and stab wounds) but not so much oncology, and we were constantly warned by staff to get the hell out of Dodge before nightfall, when the fights that caused the traumas often spilled over into the hospital. So, yeah, you can get ongoing treatment for some things, but don't expect it to look like the treatment you would choose for yourself. 

 

The hospital will not send bills forever - they will turn you over to a collection agency, and they will send you bills forever. And wreck your credit. 

 

Insurance at any cost that I am able to pay. America is a terrible place to be uninsured. 

[Tess in the Burbs]

We have gone without insurance twice. Once with no set end date. Only minor illness and paid cash discount price. Second was 60 days and then new insurance would begin. Several sick visits paid with cash discount.

 

You are really the only one who can decide about going without . In our case I was overprotective about kids being safe. I wasn't thinking about major illness, but mass emergencies.

[katilac]

<snip> In 8 months, we would have paid 16K in Cobra. <snip>

 

For a temporary lapse in coverage, I do not think it is a huge deal. I have had some health concerns during this time, but 16K is just too much. Sometimes, the cost is just too much, and it was. It is what it is.

 

$16,000 is pocket change if you have major surgery or have to be treated in the hospital for any length of time. It is an outrageous amount of money, I agree, but the universe does not care if it is a temporary lapse in coverage. You can get in a car wreck the day you let it lapse, y'know? 

 

It's a sickening amount to pay, but you have to balance it against the potential for life-long financial disaster. And possible sub-par treatment if you run out of cash and aren't insured. Anyway, a hospital is not going to take your assurance that you will pay self-pay. If you are uninsured, they will stabilize you and move you to whatever hospital is assigned for uninsured cases. And by "stabilize," I mean they will get you to the point where you aren't going to give birth or die in the ambulance headed over. 

 

About 30 years ago, my brother's wife was in labor at the local hospital, no insurance. They were going to move her to the charity hospital until her stepdad showed up with a literal pile of cash in a designated amount (credit cards were not so common then).  This was a non-profit hospital! I do not think that healthcare has gotten less money-driven in the ensuing years. 

[katilac]

Self-pay makes perfect sense as an alternative to COBRA and such if you are talking about routine doctor's visits. But medical emergencies and major illnesses can occur at any time, with no warning, and being uninsured when they do can literally impact the rest of your life. And the life of everyone in your family. 

 

I absolutely understand that some people cannot scrape up the payments no matter what. But, if you can, I urge you to do so. 

 

Years ago, my dd fell off of her bike, riding on a park sidewalk with training wheels. One of those tiny little bikes that are like a foot off of the ground, and she fell onto the soft grass, not the cement. How did she break her arm and have one of the most severe displacements the orthopedic surgeon had ever seen? I have no idea, but she did, and needed two surgeries, pins, a cast, and a hospital stay. We had insurance for that one, I'll have to ask dh how much our share was, and the total amount. I'm going to bet that the total amount was considerably more than $16,000. 

[katilac]

Just saying, it isn't all drama and death.

 

It's not, but I really don't want to play The Lady or The Tiger? with our lives if I can avoid it. 

[Corraleno]

My brother was self-employed and uninsured when he was diagnosed with colon cancer. He couldn't get treatment in the US, so he went to India where it's much cheaper. I'm not sure what treatment he received there, but he came back after a few months and he died less than a year after he was first diagnosed. He was 48.

 

When he died, the wife of my other brother (also self-employed and uninsured) made him take a part-time job with her dad's company, so he could get on the company insurance. About a month later, after the insurance kicked in, he went for tests and was diagnosed with same cancer. The insurance company considered it a preexisting condition, and therefore not covered for the first six months, so they had to pay for the first six months of treatment out of pocket. It took them years to pay that off, but at least he got excellent care and he survived.

 

I would never ever go without insurance, even if it was just a "catastrophic" type policy. Insurance is expensive, but dying is worse. Maybe someday we'll have a healthcare system that doesn't force people to choose between food and medical care, but until then, being uninsured is basically a game of Russian Roulette — no problem if you get lucky and the chamber is empty, but potentially fatal if it's not.

[Guest]

It's not ideal - remember we got completely priced out of our insurance and it was a health share or complete self pay. The ACA has been a financial disaster for our family, we self insured until we couldn't afford it.

 

You just do what you have to do. I wouldn't voluntarily go without catastrophic insurance either. I don't recommend it. If one can afford COBRA it's a better choice than nothing if there is no other option available to you.

 

I'm personally a fan of high deductible catastrophic for those who are cash strapped but need to mitigate the cost of a major medical issue. We can take a 10-15k hit, but not a 200k one.

[MistyMountain]

I had to go without insurance when I graduated college and again when dh worked for a company too small to offer it. For about a year the kids got the state coverage then we made just over the limit by a very small amount because of a change they made in how they calculated income. We actually made below the median for a family in a pretty high cost of living area. The private coverage had an over 1000 dollar monthly charge before you even considered pre existing conditions plus a 10,000 dollar deductible at the smallest. It was not at all close to being affordable for us. We could not pay the monthly charges. There was no choice but to go without even though I definitely did not want to. This was before ACA. When the kids lost insurance I was completely devastated and absolutely frightened. I worried constantly. It was the worst feeling in the world not knowing what would happen if the kids something big come up. They have charity care but you only qualify if you are just above poverty and only for some things.

 

We have insurance now and it is decent but so much of what we need is not covered like OT and PT so I cannot get it even though I feel it would be so beneficial but i know it could be even worse.

 

One thing on your list the car accident could be covered if you had med pay coverage. Things like cancer treatment or things that need long term treatment would not. Hearing stories of friend's or family's kids having issues that required a lot of medical treatment worried me so much at the time because I knew it could happen to us but we would have been screwed. It sucked.

Edited June 10, 2017 by MistyMountain

[Night Elf]

It's possible hospitals and doctors/specialists will accept a payment plan. I think as long as you send them something each month they won't turn you over to collections. My stepdad has medicare but owes money for his part and there is no way he can pay it off before he dies. He sends $50 a month to each provider, an amount the providers agreed upon when it came time to pay the bills. He's had some major health issues since 2008 culminating in owing thousands and thousands. My mom won't tell me exactly how much because she's embarrassed.

[KrissiK]

I'll tell you our story briefly, hopefully. You can do what you want with it.

 

We had good insurance. DH changed jobs, premiums skyrocketed (from $450/month to $1100, plus a large deductible and co-pay).

 

We went on Medi-share. Now, a couple of caveats... Medi-Share isn't for everyone and we are a healthy family. But, Medi-Share is basically catastrophic coverage. And it's not insurance. For our family it works great. This is how we budget.... they'd be taking $X out if DH's paycheck anyhow for the premiums, so we just put that in the bank. Our Medi-Share monthly share amount is low, so that comes out of that. And then we just save the rest monthly. As I said, our family is healthy. We have no on-going prescriptions. But, if we have to go to the doctor, we pay cash. I had a dermatologist appt. in the spring, she did an incisision and biopsy, we paid cash and we had the $ because we'd budgeted for it. A lot of doctors give cash discounts because they're getting the $ up front and don't have to pay for the insurance run-around.

 

We also become better consumers of health care. I had to get a prescription filled. I called CVS and they wanted $72.50. I went to Walmart and got the thing for $4. In the old insurance days I would have gone to CVS because it was more convenient. Now, I shop around. Walmart and Costco are the best for filling prescriptions. We get our flu shots at Costco for $15.

 

So, that's how we made it work.

Edited June 10, 2017 by KrissiK

[SparklyUnicorn]

My disabled sister did not have insurance because the disability payments put her at an income level too high to get Medicaid.  This was prior to Obamacare.  Anyhow, many times she was turned away for medical problems.  She once broke her jaw and went to the ER.  They stabilized her and sent her home telling her she needed to go to an ortho.  She didn't have money for an ortho and they would not take her without money up front.  Being turned away and not getting treatment IS REAL.  This REALLY happens.

 

Luckily now she has insurance since her state expanded Medicaid. 

Edited June 10, 2017 by SparklyUnicorn

[historically accurate]

It's possible hospitals and doctors/specialists will accept a payment plan. I think as long as you send them something each month they won't turn you over to collections. My stepdad has medicare but owes money for his part and there is no way he can pay it off before he dies. He sends $50 a month to each provider, an amount the providers agreed upon when it came time to pay the bills. He's had some major health issues since 2008 culminating in owing thousands and thousands. My mom won't tell me exactly how much because she's embarrassed.

Our hospitals in the area no longer do that. If you didn't pay enough to pay it off in a year or two, they will send you to collections. I found that out following cancer treatment. The payment plans suck.

 

I have a family member who was uninsured for many years. The ER would stabilize him and release him. One time he was released at midnight, and he couldn't get a hold of anyone to come pick him up. He was ejected from the waiting room at 3 am, 10 miles from home, and on pain meds.

 

Another family member ended up paying for diagnosis after several trips to the DR.

 

I won't go without insurance following an out of the blue cancer diagnosis for me and my father. No family history, no risk factors for either of us.

Edited June 10, 2017 by beckyjo

[teachermom2834]

Not without insurance but neglecting care because even using the insurance was too expensive- my dh let his type 2 diabetes go uncontrolled rather than dealing with it. He ended up with frozen shoulder (I had no idea this was a possible complication) and had to have a pretty significant shoulder surgery, rehab, etc. it was a painful surgery and came at a difficult time as we were in the middle of a move (to relocate for the job with good insurance that ultimately paid for the surgery minus our deductible and co-pay).

 

So while we were not technically uninsured we were neglecting routine treatments and we really paid a price for pushing off care "for a while". I really was never so much a believer in the need for any kind of preventative care because all of the checkups my dc or I have had were pretty useless it seemed.

[Zinnia]

In the early 2000s, I worked in a hospital that only provided epidurals with evidence of insurance or pre-payment.  Cash during labor was good enough.  :)  It was also pretty common.

 

Another hospital, also in the early 2000s, only did circumcision if paid in advance.  That state's Medicaid did not cover it, so it included a lot of people that were not used to paying for healthcare.  The community had figured out some work arounds--the pediatricians did it in office at 2 weeks of age, so that it was only an office procedure cost, not the hospital charge.  And people just paid cash.  No cash, no circumcision.  And no debate on the whole "is circumcision necessary?"--these were people that wanted it, insurance did not pay, and they figured out a way to get it cheaper and pay cash for it.  

[QueenCat]

For a temporary lapse in coverage, I do not think it is a huge deal. I have had some health concerns during this time, but 16K is just too much. Sometimes, the cost is just too much, and it was. It is what it is.

 

Just make sure you don't get in a bad car wreck during that time. Or discover a lump or some other cancer.

[QueenCat]

I will say that without medical insurance (we had the health share but were considered no insurance/cash pay) Benjamin and I did get everything we needed and top of the line treatment for pregnancy, c section, and all the melodramatic nicu crap that followed. We were not denied a single diagnostic or treatment at any point, though we were given the option of declining a few that were expensive and arguably precautionary.

 

I also just went to the ER and had a grossly expensive ambulance ride last week for an allergic reaction, and had no appreciable issues with quality of treatment for that either. All the medicine and nursing I could need and all delivered quickly and well, despite the fact that I had no coverage and didn't even live in state.

 

Just saying, it isn't all drama and death.

 

What kind of services you'll get beyond the ER without insurance of any kind really does depend on where you live.

[Liz CA]

I will say that without medical insurance (we had the health share but were considered no insurance/cash pay) Benjamin and I did get everything we needed and top of the line treatment for pregnancy, c section, and all the melodramatic nicu crap that followed. We were not denied a single diagnostic or treatment at any point, though we were given the option of declining a few that were expensive and arguably precautionary.

 

I also just went to the ER and had a grossly expensive ambulance ride last week for an allergic reaction, and had no appreciable issues with quality of treatment for that either. All the medicine and nursing I could need and all delivered quickly and well, despite the fact that I had no coverage and didn't even live in state.

 

Just saying, it isn't all drama and death.

 

PM'd you.

 

[Murphy101]

Can I mention a.... frustration? I have with these types of questions?

 

For those who choose to do without insurance...

 

For those who don't get insurance...

 

I do not know anyone who is sitting around on payday and thinking, "well we could buy insurance this month, but I'd really rather have a new boat!"

 

The vast majority of people who do not have insurance are because they flat out can't afford it, whether they want it or not, whether it would help them or not.

 

And for some, like my household, we not only cannot afford any plan available to us, even if we could, we then would not be able to afford to pay for the daily life required medications we need.

 

And enough with the bankruptcy terror. Bankruptcy does not ruin anyone's life. Especially in the grand scheme comparison to dying.

 

For Dh and I and our almost four adult sons, we don't have insurance. If we get cancer or a horrid wreck, I guess we will just die miserably. Because that's just the American way and apparently we lack the moral fiber to be healthier and wealthier. But there's not much we can do about that. We work hard, we try to manage our health and our finances as best we can, we vote for policies that we hope will benefit society. We will do a happy little jig if we ever have insurance again. Damn near act like we are in a drunken party dance if it happens with a job in our state and regular payroll instead of contract out work. But right now, those just aren't options we have on the table.

 

In the mean time, we pay $600 a YEAR to be in a consierge drs program. That gets Dh and I as many appts as we need during the year at no additional charge and most of the standard physical testing costs is included once a year, there is a price list for all blood and other testing services and it's very very cheap. Like everything my dh needs as a type 1 diabetic in his mid40s is under $80. The drs office does a complete health evaluation once a year at sign up to decide a health plan for each of us. It takes about 2.5 hours, but covers everything from weight to cancer screening to mental health concerns. The service also include after hours in house visits if necessary and urgent care at home. When I accidently gashed my leg in the garden 2 weeks ago, my dr came to the house at 7pm and cleaned and stitched it so I wouldn't have to go to urgent care. Frankly, this program could triple the cost and I'd still think it worth every penny and it would still be a better deal than any insurance I can get. We are almost religious about asking suppliments to boost our health. We try to eat right and be active, which isn't as easy as it sounds when everyone is constantly on the go and also trying to stick to a tight budget.

 

People who look at what we spend might say, but insurance would be cheaper. No. Just no. Dh alone would be roughly $1200 a month and then he would have to still come up with copay and deductibles and so forth. For perspective. $1200 a months is *approx* 30% of our income and still wouldn't include the cost of his insulin every month or dr appts or lab work...

 

To sum. First, the conversation about health insurance needs to stop being phrased as some people just not properly budgeting, a just a risky financial choice. I don't know anyone that is true for. I suspect it's like claiming welfare queens are common when in actuality they are very rare. Second, yes, people in the states are SOL when it comes to medical care simply because they don't have money. Whether it's money for insurance or money for their portion after insurance or just money bc they live in a crappy area with less options - it all comes down to money being the real reason they are left to get sicker and even die. And seriously, we are one of the wealthiest nations in the world, so what does that say about us as a society? We spend a lot of time hearing about how "some" people and "those" people are somehow morally at fault for their medical financial problems but not nearly enough about how our nation is risking moral bankruptcy by perpetuating this unnecessary problem.

[Murphy101]

What kind of services you'll get beyond the ER without insurance of any kind really does depend on where you live.

Absolutely.

 

Many people do not understand that the ER is required by law to stabilize you, not treat you one bit further than that. And if you need medication? They are not a pharmacy. They *might* give you an initial dose in hospital, but if you need more than that, too bad. Good luck getting it filled elsewhere.

 

Once they get your vitals stable, they can and usually do turf you. You might still need surgery or to see a dr for more in depth cause evaluation and they will refer you to do that, but if you can't afford to see whinthey refer you to or get the surgery? Oh well. That sucks for you.

[MerryAtHope]

I don't know if you've looked into a health share type of program, but that's what I've done in the times I couldn't pay for insurance. I used Samaritan, and it covered all of my chiropractor bills after an injury ($2400, and even the "deductible" of $300 got covered because I got a "cash discount" at the place I went to and the sharing program allowed the discount to count for the "deductible.") Much less expensive than insurance most of the time. 

[Wheres Toto]

Not exactly catastrophic but - 

We went without insurance for a while when dh was self-employed.  Oldest dd was supposed to then get covered by her dad, but they were dragging their feet on adding her to their plan (they could have done it immediately, they just didn't).  She ended up spending a day in the hospital on IV fluids for what ended up a severe kidney infection and dehydration.   She was over 18 so it was her credit that took the hit.  We felt awful but couldn't afford much help with the bill, and the hospital sent it to collections after a month.

 

I basically returned to work in order to get decent medical insurance without paying a million dollars.  I didn't quit until dh had been at his job, with good medical insurance, for over a year.

[katilac]

I'm not seeing a lot of judgement on this thread. I'm seeing a lot of horror stories, which are real, and a strong sentiment from some posters that not having insurance can cost more than having it. 

 

Also, keep in mind that the OP was asking about COBRA insurance - it's not that it's impossible for them to ever have insurance, it's a question of whether it's worth paying an insane amount for the time they are gapped. imo, if it can be done, it is almost certainly worth it. 

 

Bankruptcy may not ruin your life, but it also may not discharge your medical bills. You cannot qualify for Chapter 13 if you have over $395,000 in debt, medical or otherwise. That's half a million dollars, a small fortune, but you can get there pretty fast with catastrophic medical bills. You cannot qualify for Chapter 7 if your disposable income is too high. 

 

We could bank our very high premium every month and pay cash for all routine medical care with no problem whatsoever. Routine isn't the problem. 

 

It's a mixed-up, muddled-up system but it's what we have at the moment. 

[Liz CA]

Can I mention a.... frustration? I have with these types of questions?

 

For those who choose to do without insurance...

 

For those who don't get insurance...

 

I do not know anyone who is sitting around on payday and thinking, "well we could buy insurance this month, but I'd really rather have a new boat!"

 

The vast majority of people who do not have insurance are because they flat out can't afford it, whether they want it or not, whether it would help them or not.

 

 

Exactly. During the great recession years I did not have any insurance. Do I recommend it? Well, no but sometimes life's circumstances leave you with few choices.

[Murphy101]

One story of many of ours...

 

Many many years ago back when dh and I only had two kids...

 

Dh was laced off his job. Usually back then it wasn't a big deal. Jobs were plentiful then. You literally "just went out and got another job".

 

Problem was, this coincided with him developing an intolerance to the insulin he had been using for over 10 years. So for about 18 months, this was our daily life:

 

Dh would get up and go get a job.

Almost non jobs give benefits the day you are hired. Usually it's at least 90 days before you qualified for benefits.

He would work that job and do pretty good. Maybe for a day. Maybe for a week.

Then he would pass out on the way to from work or at work or seem to be drunk at work or have a seizure in the night at home.

An ambulance would be called and he'd go the ER.

The ER would stabilize him and give him a lecture on eating right and testing his sugar. Even though we insisted and showed them that he was doing both already and still having obvious major scary problems. They would act like they didn't hear us and repeat lecture and tell him to see his endocrinologist. We would explain we couldn't do that because they wouldn't see us without insurance. They would repeat lecture and basicly shrug.

Eventually, by sheer dent of will and pure dumb luck, Dh managed to keep a job long enough to get insurance. The day after he got his insurance card he manage to actually keep his apt with an endocrinologist bc he actually had insurance. 20 minutes later he was dx with an intolerance to beef and pork derived insulin, switched insulin and was in fine health diabetic land thereafter for many years. 18 months of risk his life and constant repeated unemployment could have been resolved with one 20 minute session with an endocrinologist that he couldn't see because he didn't have insurance. Nm the thousands upon thousands we ended up adding to our bankruptcy that could have been avoided or the havoc this made of our mental health.

 

The ONLY reason he wasn't dead at some point in that 18 month period was pure luck. That's it. If he had been a single man living alone - he'd have died for lack of a wife waking up to him with low sugars. Once he suddenly had sugars drop after leaving work and randomly pulled into the drive of some old lady a neighborhood over, stumbled out of his car and passed out in her driveway. And there are no employers who want to keep a new employee who can't stay conscious at work. She had over 20 places of employment on that year's taxes. Many he only worked a day-a week. And yet every day, he somehow dredged up the energy and the determination to go apply at yet another job, almost less than 12 hours after an episode even. I honestly can't say how he managed it without soul crushing demoralization. I do remember trying so hard to encourage him. I do remember him telling me much later about how often he sat in the parking lot of yet another place to apply and thought we would all be better off if he just never came home again. Oh all while Dh was dealing with all of that, we had a baby with health problems and my mother was living with us while she died of cancer.

[VaKim]

I do not have insurance. I have never had it on myself. I checked into it. If we were to pay the premiums, I would avoid going to the doctor because I would not have enough money to cover the copays and deductible. As it is, we pay cash. 

 

I had ovarian cancer 5 or 6 years ago. My doctor who did the surgery (he was one of the best around) just waived his fee for the operation. The hospital stay was covered by charity care. I had the very best care and they left nothing undone. I was actually able to stay in the hospital as long as the doctor wanted me to (a week) so that he could make sure everything was ok. Had I been on insurance, they would have most likely not let me stay longer than 3 days. I know because I have had relatives have similar things happen. 

 

 

[Guest]

And some clinics/hospitals will continue to see you and treat you as best as they can despite owing money and making payments.  From one uninsured person to another, it breaks my heart to hear of stories when treatment was reduced based on ability to pay.  I've never heard of that before.  For basic stuff, having no insurance has been nicer - the doctors and nurses all know it so they will always ask before administering hospital meds or wrapping an injury or whatever.  When my chicken scratched my eye, I went to the urgent care across the hallway from the emergency room and the doctor came out and told me what they would do, what their possible limitations would be depending on how severe my eye was and what the ER would do above and beyond so that I could make an informed choice.  I was NEVER able to get that kind of information when I was insured.  And the costs haven't been extraordinary: I just got a bill for an x-ray DS had of his hand (possible break)...$12. 

Granted, we've never had anything beyond autoimmune issues and broken bones so we've been lucky.  DS even does gymnastics :) 

I will add, however, that I have put off getting treatment for my autoimmune issues simply because I can't deal with regular/ongoing costs at this time.  So if you don't have insurance, having a high pain tolerance helps.

[Murphy101]

I don't think people are being judgey in this thread, or more accurately, I don't think they intend their words to come across that way. But from the POV of the long time uninsured, experience has made us... sensitive? to the nuances of how the uninsured are talked about. It is very pervasive and common. My point was to bring that into the discussion because I think many people don't realize this. I would rather think they don't realise it than that they do and actually believe it okay and true characterization of the uninsured.

Edited June 10, 2017 by Murphy101

[katilac]

The day after he got his insurance card he manage to actually keep his apt with an endocrinologist bc he actually had insurance. 

 

How broken is a system that lets (requires) you to go to the ER again and again for emergencies that are only emergencies because you can't go to a regular doctor appointment? How much did the ER visits cost versus actually diagnosing and fixing the problem? Some people think we can't afford better health care and access in this country, but I think we can't afford to NOT have it. 

[Murphy101]

How broken is a system that lets (requires) you to go to the ER again and again for emergencies that are only emergencies because you can't go to a regular doctor appointment? How much did the ER visits cost versus actually diagnosing and fixing the problem? Some people think we can't afford better health care and access in this country, but I think we can't afford to NOT have it.

No kidding.

 

We filed iirc, something like 35k in medical expenses on our bankruptcy 22 years ago. His problem was resolved with one $60 copay to the endocrinologist to get his insulin rx changed.

 

And things are worse now than then.

 

It's stupid to not have universal healthcare.

[happypamama]

If you or your child needs something, you might qualify for Medicaid or CHIP, and you may be able to apply retroactively for those.

 

But I think it depends on your area some. My doctor will see you if you don't have insurance and charge you a slightly lower amount. I've seen specialists who will see you without insurance or with insurance that they don't take. Some of my midwives haven't taken my insurance, so I've worked out affordable plans with them, but I also had insurance as backup when I needed it. But I think it's going to vary with the area and what's available.

[winterbaby]

It depends so much on where you live. I don't love my area but due to self-employment and wildly fluctuating income, our insurance status changes very frequently, often enough to "none." We have multiple chronic health issues and it's essential for us to stay close to a major academic medical center which is more interested in cases for their people to practice on than in money.

[zimom]

My sister was diagnosed with breast cancer last month, after she finally had health insurance again after a year with none.  However she noticed the symptoms way back in September but knew she couldn't go to the doctor since she was uninsured.

 

Our mother was diagnosed at 38 and died 9 years later of metastatic breast cancer.  My sister has tested positive for a breast cancer gene, presumably our mother had it too.  Of course, we hope her late diagnosis since she was uninsured doesn't lower her prognosis.  

 

It only takes a minute (car accident), or one incident (breast cancer) to change your life.  

[mamakelly]

Several years ago my husband was out of work, but we had to many assets to qualify for any kind of free health care for him and I. The kids were on medi-cal. Then he got a new, very low paying job, and the insurance was astronomical for what he was making, it was seriously half of his paycheck to cover the kids and I. His job covered him, but I had to go without. Twice during that time period I hurt myself enough to need a doctor, once a twisted ankle, once I hurt my hand and thought it was broken. I found a local clinic that had a sliding scale. It was in a not so great part of town, and they treated me horribly. It was the first time I had been without insurance, and my excellent doctor. They ran terribly late, and were curt and rude and acted like I was just there to get pain meds. I had to go to a different location for an xray and I was 10 minutes late because I got lost and they cancelled my appointment and made me reschedule all while berating me for getting lost. I cried. I probably needed a specialist, but didn't want to go through them, so I just delt with the pain. I was so lucky that there were no lasting issues with the hand injury. But my view of health care was changed by that whole  issue.