My daughter's wedding - JAWM

[Liza Q]

I feel like I can't tell anyone what I really think because...

 

I will hurt my daughter's feelings

I will upset my other daughters and they will tell their sister and then she will be hurt

My husband doesn't want to talk becasue his way of dealing with stuff that upsets him is to just suck it up

I don't want to tell any friends or acquaintances because I know I will get upset with them for criticizing my daughter!

Ditto with other family members - sister, sils, aunts, cousins. I want to be loyal to my daughter and I also worry that one of them would think it was their place to tell my daughter how upset her mother is etc. and blow stuff out pf proportion...becasue nothing is really serious.

 

So I am going to say some stuff here and everyone can say "there, there, dear" and only give me good ideas to consider, not critical comments.

 

I am upset that they are moving in together. I think it is tacky that they are getting an apartment this fall but planning a winter wedding (February) because they want a wedding and don't want to wait to move in together. They've been dating for over four years so I get how frustrating it is, long-distance while they were in school, he's in NJ, she's in NY.... I suggested that they just do a courthouse wedding this fall but she wants "the wedding". I know there is a generation gap and she is a much more liberal Christian than I am and, while I am not telling her how to live, I still believe they should just get married. I feel like the wedding is more important than the marriage to her. I know that is not true...but I still feel that way.

 

They are talking about a shower. Double-tacky, imo. They will have so much stuff already. It just seems greedy and ridiculous. I am happy to be a guest but I don't want to be asked to help plan or host it. If I am a guest then I won't feel responsible for the tacky/greedy. Of course, my next daughter may end up planning/hosting...which means that I won't be able to say no to helping. And I don't think my husband is prepared for spending any more money!

 

The money. We gave her a certain amount, no strings attached. They could elope or whatever. His parents matched our gift...but have strings. Or at least comments. They have friends they want to invite - I am not expecting my friends to be invited! This won't be a big wedding - about 80 people. They strongly strongly encouraged that their daughter be in the wedding party. They pooh-poohed my daughter when she said that she wanted carrot cake or pies - they believe in a traditional cake. Nothing big but I feel like my daughter is being disrespected. I want her to have what she wants, or what she and he want, not what anyone else wants!

 

The fiance. His job is in NJ so they are looking for an apt there because it is much cheaper than where we live - in NYC. But he wants the suburbs and my daughter has never lived there. She doesn't drive. He is thinking about saving for a house. My daughter has never lived in a house and feels overwhelmed at the thought of managing/maintaining one. Her job right now in the the city...and she is looking at a 3-hr round trip every day. She understands that the closer they live to the city the more expensive so she sees that it is sensible...but he doesn't see that she feels that she is making a huge sacrifice. And she is upset about it, which makes me upset. Honestly, I think he is right, especially because their long-term plan would have him staying in NJ (he's a lawyer) and she is thinking to work part-time when they have kids. His job is solid while she is still looking for full-time work!

 

And their money. She is insisting on thinking of it as his money and her money and gets upset that he wants to spend more than she does. He thinks they should just have a joint account but she is being weird about it. It's not like he is spending like crazy and she is earning the bulk of it.

 

Back to the wedding. He is more traditional than she is and he thinks his parents have a good point that everything should just be - traditional. My daughter is more relaxed. No veil. Plans to wear boots, not heels. Not having my husband give her away (which is killing him but he is sucking it up lol). I am not going to be a Momzilla and I honestly want things to be special for her...but I secretly resent that they are already planning things to make his parents happy. I feel...I don't know. I genuinely don't care if she serves pie or wears boots and I feel strongly that I shouldn't "make" her do things my way. I guess I just think his parents should be the same.

 

There is more but this is already crazy long. I already feel a little better.

 

 

[Bluegoat]

Weddings are soooo frustrating.  And, really - the whole melding things together.

 

But, it takes time to learn about some of the communication things, which is a lot of what you are talking about I think.  Communication with the new spouse, or with the new extended family.  It's a bit of a learn by doing kind of thing.

 

The shower - yes, I agree with you, but it seems a simple fix to me, becuause family members are not supposed to host a shower. 

 

I think the whole practicality of moving in together vs paying for the big wedding is a bit fraught in our society.  I can totally see why people don't want to have a civil ceremony first.  I think its interesting to look back at the history of weddings in western society - I think we've come to a weird place, and individuals can't always easily overcome the social expectations vs the practical realities. 

 

 

 

[Jenn in FL]

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

 

Weddings seem to leave a wake of chaos and consternation.

 

Every. Single. Time.

 

Just keep breathing...deeply.

 

This board is amazingly supportive.  Your virtual friends here will hold you up, or stand you up, or in the event of utter disaster, prop you up in a corner! :tongue_smilie:

 

Hang in! there

[Jenn121]

nothing but hugs for you! :grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

[BigMamaBird]

Vent away, we're here for you!

[StephanieZ]

(((hugs)))  It sounds to me like you are handling things beautifully. I'm sorry things are so stressful!!! Having to let our kids grow up and make their own decisions (and mistakes) is really hard!!!! 

 

Could you suggest (gently) a couple months of premarital counseling to better understand each other's perspectives and to work out agreements about money and where to live, etc? That seems to me like a great thing to do no matter how perfect the relationship! And, when there are major things to be worked out (money! where to live! how to deal with inlaws!), then it seems pretty imperative!

 

RE: the shower. Of course you can't host it! That's way bad manners. The mom of the bride is not supposed to host it (check Miss Manners!). You don't host it, and you don't spend for it! You just show up with a big gift and a smile!! The bridesmaids are supposed to host it! I'd totally stay out of it, and of course, if your (other) daughter is hosting it, you can help her fix food or whatever, but I'd totally stay out of it!! Just smile and nod encouragingly and go about your business when the topic comes up!

 

I think you're doing beautifully. Just hang in there and keep being the supportive, loving mom you are!

 

 

[Junie]

Sorry this is so stressful for you.  It sounds like you're handling it really well.

 

My brother and his wife had a 5-minute ceremony at a restaurant last fall.  Only immediate family was invited.  Then this spring they had their actual wedding ceremony with friends/family.  It was actually really nice and it took most of the pressure off the big day.  No ring bearer?  No big deal.  Minister running late.  No big deal.  They were already married, so in the end it didn't really matter.

 

As for the moving out of the city and money...  Yes, I think marital counseling is an excellent idea.  A neutral party needs to help them work these things out.

 

And as for the traditional cake -- I think your daughter should have what she wants.  Maybe future MIL can buy cake if she wants it.

[JFSinIL]

Just smile, chill, and let it go.  They are adults.  If your dd doesn't really want carrot cake, now is the time for her to stand up for herself with future in-laws.  If they want to move in together first, well, if you have made your opinion known, then that's that, just smile and let them live their lives.  Your ideas and opinions do matter - a lot - and you can come unload here whenever you feel the need.  DD and her finance will have to wrangle out between them where to live, money, etc. Living together now kinda forces them to make decisions about that sort of thing, doesn't it :-)

[Melissa in Australia]

Hugs

[Rachel]

I'm sorry!

[Audrey]

I understand your frustrations and I'm glad that getting it out here has helped.  It's really good that you aren't planning to say any of that to anyone IRL.   There's a time for expressing opinions, but weddings are never one of those times.   Hang in there. Even if you have to paste on a Pollyanna smile.  Things will probably turn out better than you expected.

[Janeway]

I think part of the frustration sounds like that YOU haven't told her how to do things, so she is not really doing what you want, which is ok with you...but then she turns around and does what her future in laws want. And you worry that the rest of your life and hers will be run by her in laws?

 

I have no advice. Sounds like a difficult situation. I haven't BTDT so I am not much. Help. Sorry.

[Janeway]

Oh, I meant to say (((hugs)))

[Arcadia]

:grouphug:

 

Is he an only son? My in-laws were very rigid for their first born son. They are very traditional so the firstborn son has to follow some customs or they "lose face". My husband who is the youngest said no to their money with strings attached.

 

We bought our home and stayed random nights there while buying furniture and renovating before our traditional wedding reception. We had a courthouse wedding after buying our house and a housewarming party before our traditional wedding reception.

 

As for the wedding cake, we choose what we wanted and just make sure it was big enough to serve all guests a slice as per our customs. My hubby had many arguments over the wedding with his parents but since we didn't take any money, it was easier for him to stand his ground.

 

For a wedding party of 80, I won't have expected parents friends to be invited. That is tough on the couple to say no. My relatives exceeded 80 so it was just relatives of both sides and about 30 of my friends. We had a separate informal party with hubby's friends since they prefer informal.

[kewb]

I think you are doing a great job of holding your tongue. His parents sound challenging.

 

You could talk to your daughter about setting boundaries with her future in-laws. And discussing with her fiance about setting boundaries. Tell her you want her to have the wedding she wants and that you will do all you can to help her achieve it.

 

Premarital counseling, if they are willing, will help them develop communication skills for a lifetime.

[gardenmom5]

hugs. I'm sorry.  vent away.

[Carol in Cal.]

Sigh.

 

Hugs.

 

If it were me, I would take my daughter aside and encourage her to have the wedding that she wants to have.  Someone did that for me when I was engaged, and I am STILL grateful.  Honestly, for some reason it had not occurred to me.  

 

And, of everything else, I would focus on the house.  Because it's nuts for her to live in the suburbs if she doesn't drive.  Just plain nuts.  She will go crazy.

[happypamama]

I think you're handling things so well!  Good for you!

 

I would highly suggest that they get some premarital counseling.  It sounds like they have some very different ideas about some pretty major issues, like money and housing, and they could maybe use some assistance in discussing those things.

[J-rap]

Hmm...  It will probably turn out better than expected.  I think weddings get too much hype as it is, so if you can try and downplay all the emotional stuff going on around it, I think everyone wins.

 

As far as living together, I used to think NO WAY!  (I'm from a more traditional family.)  But the more I've thought about it, I guess it's not really such a big deal.  If they are committed for life, they're committed for life.  A paper doesn't change it, it just helps make it official and celebrates the promise to each other.  I know of many very sweet, committed couples (even Christian couples) who first lived together with the intention of marrying, and then married.  Everyone was just happy for them in the end.  It's kind of confusing though, isn't it?  But different cultures have played this out differently throughout history.  It will be okay.  (Or another thought is to get married in front of a judge first and then have the church wedding later.  That's what my dd did, but for visa reasons.)

 

I wouldn't worry about the shower.  If your other daughter plans it and you help, that's fine.  I've helped my sister with many showers and we always did it inexpensively.  You can find some inexpensive decorations and refreshments.  Find some fun (free) games.

 

About the in-laws helping to pay with strings attached.  Hopefully they'll be gracious enough to allow some compromises.  My dd had cupcakes which were really cute, plus a bigger, more traditional cake.  I've been to several weddings recently that have an assortment of cakes.  Maybe your dd can have a more traditional white cake, plus a carrot cake.

 

It probably would be nice to have fiance's sister in the wedding, especially if he has just that one sister.  It's a nice gesture to his family.

 

Many dresses are sweet but simple.  My dd ended up getting a very simple white bridesmaid dress for her wedding dress.  No veil, just a flower in her hair.  It was very lovely -- It still had a traditional look about it, but simple and fresh, more to her tastes.

 

It sounds like living in an apartment for now would be best, until they figure out for sure where they want to live, the job situation, etc.  Plus, it really is nice to not have to hassle with home maintenance right away!  Hopefully your dd will be able to discuss this with her fiancé, going over the pros and cons of it all.  If not, a counselor who can help guide them through some of these decisions is probably a good idea.

 

When is the wedding?

[Tess in the Burbs]

I'm sure my mom felt this way too. She hired an organist from her church before asking me. Then had to fire her lol. But mom kept her mouth shut. I learned life lessons along the way.

 

Vent away.

[HS Mom in NC]

My older girls are engaged to be married within the next couple of years.  I just keep telling myself, "It's not my wedding." and I keep my mouth shut. Adult children are adults.  Adults don't do everything the way their mommies and daddies want them to.  That's normal. 

My mother didn't keep her mouth shut when I got married. There are consequences for that that I wouldn't want directed at me by my daughters so shut it stays. I wouldn't want them to have that kind of low opinion of me. People who adhere to tradition over relationships in decisions that aren't theirs to make have no idea how petty and contentious they come across.  They erode the relationships by their own doing and don't have anyone else to legitimately blame.  I'm glad to see you avoiding such a foolish mistake. Well done!

Any time she brings up what someone else wants you can ask, "But what do you want?  You're the bride.  You and the groom decide what the two of you want because it's your wedding.  Other people can do whatever they want at their weddings.  I had my wedding and made my decisions now you have your wedding and make your decisions.  That's how it's supposed to work.  What do you want? Then do that."

Also, some practical questions.  Managing a household isn't neuroscience.  Surely she's perfectly capable of learning how to do it.  And she can learn to drive-most people in the US do.  Does she have some sort of physical or cognitive disability that makes taking care of a house and driving impossible? Does she have a history of struggling with saying no to people? She's a grown woman who is employed and getting married so she should be perfectly capable of articulating, "I'm not willing to spend my time commuting and doing housework" and sticking to it if that's what she wants. My husband wanted me to commit to a large family.  I told him I was willing to commit to 2 and see how it goes from there.  He complained.  I said, 'I understand a big family is important  to you but I'm not going to agree to it.  If that's a problem then maybe you should marry someone else."  He knew I was willing to make good on that. I would've walked away over that.

She should be capable to saying to overstepping in-laws, "I've already chosen my attendants and completed the guest list" and sticking to it.  I'm going to be very blunt here.  If she can't do that then she probably isn't ready for marriage. Many an overbearing spouse, parent and in-law has tested the limits during the wedding prep.  They want to see just how much they can get away with during the marriage and when the grandkids come along.  Engaged couples need to get their Barney Fife on and nip it!  Nip it in the bud! Same with a spouse.  If one spouse can't hear the other during the engagement, it's unlikely a switch will flip in the future and they'll listen then.  If she told me he ignoring her wants and steamrolling or she was being a doormat I'd ask questions like, "But what do you want?  Didn't you tell me you wanted________________________________?  How is he responding to your wants and needs?"

 

[Ellie]

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

[MomatHWTK]

24 years this summer. We made a lot of similar choices, survived a lot of similar issues with parents and in-laws. It's just a wedding- life is so much more. A couple that chooses together and grows together will be fine. 

[aaplank]

You are wise to vent here so as to keep yourself from venting to IRL family and friends. Keeping your relationship with your daughter first priority shows grace and maturity. What a gift of a mom you are to your children. The wedding will come and go, and you can look forward to being part of your daughter's new life, which might include grandchildren!

 

I feel really bad for your husband as he will miss out on walking your daughter down the aisle. That is the only thing I would bring up and see if you could change. Your daughter is probably young and doesn't realize the significance of the gesture and she might regret saying no to that one day.

[Anne in CA]

I think she will be sorry about not having her father walk her down the aisle, but some lessons are learned the hard way. 

 

Her in-laws are not going to get easier, but she is going to have to walk through that for the rest of her life, the wedding is only the first battle in a long war.

 

Most weddings bring out the worst in people what want to control something. Let. it. happen. The person who tries to stand up to a bully is always viewed worse than a bully until everyone is completely tired of it.

 

Hugs, :grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug: , you are a rock star to only vent here.

 

 

[MaeFlowers]

My older girls are engaged to be married within the next couple of years. I just keep telling myself, "It's not my wedding." and I keep my mouth shut. Adult children are adults. Adults don't do everything the way their mommies and daddies want them to. That's normal.

 

My mother didn't keep her mouth shut when I got married. There are consequences for that that I wouldn't want directed at me by my daughters so shut it stays. I wouldn't want them to have that kind of low opinion of me. People who adhere to tradition over relationships in decisions that aren't theirs to make have no idea how petty and contentious they come across. They erode the relationships by their own doing and don't have anyone else to legitimately blame. I'm glad to see you avoiding such a foolish mistake. Well done!

 

Any time she brings up what someone else wants you can ask, "But what do you want? You're the bride. You and the groom decide what the two of you want because it's your wedding. Other people can do whatever they want at their weddings. I had my wedding and made my decisions now you have your wedding and make your decisions. That's how it's supposed to work. What do you want? Then do that."

 

Also, some practical questions. Managing a household isn't neuroscience. Surely she's perfectly capable of learning how to do it. And she can learn to drive-most people in the US do. Does she have some sort of physical or cognitive disability that makes taking care of a house and driving impossible? Does she have a history of struggling with saying no to people? She's a grown woman who is employed and getting married so she should be perfectly capable of articulating, "I'm not willing to spend my time commuting and doing housework" and sticking to it if that's what she wants. My husband wanted me to commit to a large family. I told him I was willing to commit to 2 and see how it goes from there. He complained. I said, 'I understand a big family is important to you but I'm not going to agree to it. If that's a problem then maybe you should marry someone else." He knew I was willing to make good on that. I would've walked away over that.

 

She should be capable to saying to overstepping in-laws, "I've already chosen my attendants and completed the guest list" and sticking to it. I'm going to be very blunt here. If she can't do that then she probably isn't ready for marriage. Many an overbearing spouse, parent and in-law has tested the limits during the wedding prep. They want to see just how much they can get away with during the marriage and when the grandkids come along. Engaged couples need to get their Barney Fife on and nip it! Nip it in the bud! Same with a spouse. If one spouse can't hear the other during the engagement, it's unlikely a switch will flip in the future and they'll listen then. If she told me he ignoring her wants and steamrolling or she was being a doormat I'd ask questions like, "But what do you want? Didn't you tell me you wanted________________________________? How is he responding to your wants and needs?"

 

 

I agree with this. She really needs to stand up for what she wants in her wedding. If you're going to pipe up, this is where I would help her and back her up.

 

I'm saying this as someone who has more bad memories of their wedding than good and it is because my in-laws did the same thing. They did it because they thought I was just afraid to say what I really wanted. (Or that was their excuse.) I said what I wanted, they just chose to ignore it.

 

This is her only wedding. She only gets one shot. No do-overs. She should be able to have the things that she wants. Hopefully she can tell them that and hopefully they will get it.

[Anne]

I would use whatever influence you have to encourage pre-marital counseling - I believe it's a great idea for every couple. And I would consider asking her ONCE if she would reconsider allowing her dad to walk her down the aisle.

 

Other than that, I really like Homeschool Mom's advice to keep asking her "what do you want?"

 

Hugs to you! Being the mom of the bride can be extremely challenging!!

 

Anne

[Onceuponatime]

Putting everything else aside, if they are going to live in the suburbs, I would advise my daughter to get a driver's license. To me this is a big deal for a young woman. When I was first married, I had no driver's license and, because of overseas regulations ( military husband), I was unable to get one for years. Not being able to just get in a car and go where you want, when you want, is one of the biggest inconveniences ever, for the non driver and their spouse. Plus, I was terribly lonely when I was stuck at home without transportation.

 

I am always telling young girls to get their drivers license before they leave home. I feel very strongly about the level of independence it allows.

[Pam L in Mid Tenn]

I was hurt over my daughter's wedding last year. I wish a few things had been different. But they weren't and I did not enjoy the way mother-of-the bride should enjoy it.  But, time passes and those hurts heal.

You are not alone! The issues may be different, but the "hurt" is the same.  ((( hugs )))

[lmrich]

I agree with others to encourage premarital counseling. There is a lot the couple needs to work through - planning a wedding, deciding where to live, how to live, starting careers, etc.. 

 

 

[MinivanMom]

I was that girl, and my in-laws hadn't even given us any money for the wedding. There didn't need to be strings; I wanted to please them and I wanted them to like me, so I did things their way. I'm grateful my mother bit her tongue. Even a, "Well, what do you want?" would not have gone over well, because there is plenty of implied judgment there - not only judgment of the in-laws, but also judgment of the bride for choosing to compromise with them. It's hard to say nothing, but that's usually the best way.

 

I have no regrets over my wedding - it was only a wedding - but you better believe I remembered my in-laws behavior later on when I was pregnant with my first child. I wouldn't have been nearly so assertive in protecting my pregnancy, baby shower, delivery room, and initial time with baby from my in-laws if I hadn't had the opportunity to see them in action during the wedding. Yes, I compromised over the wedding . . . a lot . . . but I learned so much about my in-laws' character and complete lack of respect for me personally, and those first-hand experiences gave me what I needed to advocate for myself later on when it mattered. 

 

And I'm going to have to disagree with the suggestion that mom should suggest premarital counseling. That could come across as even more meddling than the in-laws insisting on traditional wedding cake. Just imagine how it could sound when your daughter says to her fiancee, "My mom thinks we need to go to premarital counseling." Unless you come from a culture or religious tradition where marital counseling is common, there is no way to suggest it without sounding like you are critical of their relationship and are overstepping their boundaries as a soon-to-be married couple.

 

You've been handling everything perfectly up to this point. Just continue to bite your tongue. And if you need to vent, you'll always find support here.

[bettyandbob]

Although the wedding itself is not important (marriage is), the struggles through planning can bring out red flags that should be addressed.

 

They should do premarital counseling. They need to address how their relationship with in-laws will be. They need to address their relationship with each other. Fiance deferring to parents will continue the length of the marriage for any issue if not addressed now.

 

Power in relationship needs to be addressed. Suburban living is completely different than urban. They need to really evaluate each commute, what life looks like without driving (in most suburban situations this means trapped). Costs of driving and a second car versus living closer in with one person reverse commute. Etc lots of issues.

[lllll]

nm

Edited July 9, 2016 by ~ d9n

[Liza Q]

Thanks for all the thoughtful and sweet comments!

 

I went dress shopping with my daughter on Wednesday and it went very well...so well that she told me a lot of things about how she is feeling. She knows that she can trust me and so far I know that I am handling it well. I know that she wants help with the dress as we agree that it will set the tone for everything else. Well, the venue really does but that is already chosen - a cozy, lovely inn that just screams both of their personalities! She wants a dress that is pretty, soft, comfortable, affordable but hates to shop and, imo, her budget is too small. So I have stepped in and she is grateful. I should say that I offered to step in - I am not pushy.

 

About driving. I don't drive - total city girl - but I would have learned if I had moved to the suburbs! The town they are apartment hunting in has sidewalks and is "walkable" and they have a lot of options for places in walking distance from the train, stores, post office, etc. That is their plan for a few years. Moving there for a year or 2 sounds ok to her but living there forever? Well, it takes a lot of getting used to. I am speculating, but his attitude seems to be that moving out there is "better", so worth getting used to, which makes it harder to see that she views it as a sacrifice. You know how people tend to act as though their lifestyle is the default and anything else is weird? I can be that way myself when I am not careful! I think she just wants him to see that his life is as weird to her as hers is to him. I mean...she doesn't see a wealthy suburb as being a step up from our (lower) middle class neighborhood.

 

About counseling. I have spoken to her - on Wed night we walked from Chelsea down into the Village and had plenty of time to talk - about how thinking that everything is or ought to be fair and even is not realistic and she agrees. She just wants to be heard and understood! Her fiance is actually a lot like my husband so we had a good, funny talk. I am hesitant to recommend counseling but I will wait and see if this is just her coming to terms with the big changes in her life or if it really something deeper. My husband and both think that her fiance is good for - and to - our daughter.

 

About the in-laws. They are actually great people! Their son has been living at home again this year after years away at college and law school so it has been a challenging year for all of them and I think that things will be much better all around when he moves out again and they are not all feeling weird about him being him and treating him like a kid even though he is 27. I don't think that they think they gave any money with strings, because inviting their friends (not a lot, obviously!) and having an open bar (my daughter is not happy about that as she sees it as a waste) etc. are just normal things, kwim?

 

About my daughter. She has anxiety issues and her fiance is great with her -very encouraging -  but his parents don't understand her at all! Their daughter has a lot more issues and I think that they see my daughter as....normal and no drama, unlike their daughter. So they just tell it like it is and are big teasers and don't see that my daughter could actually use some of the gentle approach they use with their own daughter. If that makes sense?

 

And - it's funny. We had a very small wedding that we planned in a month and I made almost no decisions. I wanted a courthouse wedding and my Mom wanted something nicer so I told her fine. She and I had similar tastes, my aunt helped her, and I loved everything they did, because they kept it small and cozy because they knew me so well. I see my daughter wanting to leave stuff up to others but I think not feeling like she can trust everyone to follow her vision and not her own. So she is stressed which stresses me because I COULD plan exactly what she wants, but I don't want to push. Plus, honestly, I think that his parents should have a say. My husband and his Mom didn't care  - she was afraid to boss him around and he genuinely just wanted me to be happy and had no opinions beyond not wasting money and not being too fancy.

 

Wow! I think I have covered almost everything!

 

I am encouraging her to get her license this fall so she will be ready.

 

I have a few extra dollars aside to cover a more expensive dress/alterations since I don't want to upset her by telling her that her budget is unreasonable...since they are trying to be sure they have enough for the photographer, one area in which they do not want to skimp!

 

We have another visit to Davids bridal after church on Sunday, this time with my other daughters and one friend. And then Anthropologie in 2 weeks. If necessary, we''l expand our search to ebay and thrift stores.

 

Even if this is not that interesting, I so appreciate that I have a place to chat, and not just about History and Spelling!

 

 

 

[Bluegoat]

It sounds like things will all come together.

 

I do think that parents should be considered in wedding plans - weddings are family events, not just about the couple, and families do have traditions.  Something like guests, in a reasonable amount, seems like it should be more important than the type of cake though.

[Liza Q]

Oh - the shower. I was thinking that is the maid of honor's job with the other bridesmaids and since the MoH and one of the bridesmaids are my other daughters, I expect that they will just default to asking me for help. We'll see.

 

And another, bigger thing. My daughter wants to work and not stay home like I did, which is fine. Her fiance is not expecting her to stay home. But she doesn't expect or want to be as career-driven as him and she talks as if she is feeling guilty about that.  But he is not expecting that either! I feel like...she is reacting to "society" having expectations of her. I had no problem going against what was expected of me when I chose to stay home and then homeschool and I am encouraging her to do what is best for them and not care about any one else's expectations. But she still seems...I don't know. Like she thinks everything is supposed to be fair and then she knows it won't be and....she is putting a monetary value on everything and I wish she would just relax!

[Liza Q]

I feel like I should say this too since several of you brought it up.

 

She has already agreed to move out to NJ. They discussed it back when they got engaged in December (they waited to plan the wedding till she finished grade school). It's just now that the reality of it has hit her! It's not like he made a unilateral decision.

[Mama Geek]

She sounds like she is really not ready to be married because she hasn't really figured out how things will actually work, that being said, how many of us were really ready to be married?  I know that I wasn't and that my expectations were way off.  Hopefully she has a strong enough bond with her fiancé to be able to work out the things that they don't really agree on right now.  She will mature more, because marriage tends to cause that, hopefully they will grow together while matures.

[indigomama]

Have they talked to the person officiating the wedding about premarital counseling? In all the churches I have attended or DH has worked for (he's a pastor) premarital counseling is required if they want one of our pastors to officiate.

 

But, premarital counseling might help them (letting them start their life together discussing the big things that can come up as a married couple) and perhaps it would help you, too. It would give you some peace that they are talking and the things that you've mentioned that are tough for you to watch them go through: finances, inlaws, careers, etc.

 

It sounds like you have been doing a great job of supporting her!

Edited July 8, 2016 by indigomama

[Arcadia]

Here some zipcodes has "snob appeal". I have lawyer friends who couldn't care less where they stay and a lawyer neighbor who moved his family back to his parents home for the more prestigious address. Since they intend to rent in a walkable area, it is not as scary as buying and regretting. I have been judged so often based on where I stay that I couldn't care less about it but there are people out there who do that.

 

My area is unofficially classified as city and suburb. Where I live is very walkable with many office complexes within walking distance. So even employment opportunities are within walking distance if hubby and I don't care about best fit.

 

Career wise, it is hard to plan ahead. Hubby and I graduated when our country was hit by the asian financial crisis. Getting a job was very hard for everyone and so when my friends started having kids, no one dared to quit their jobs unless they were from well to do families. Add to that we were taught recessions come in 10 year cycles and which means the next predicted recession would have hit my friends when their kids are 8 and under. Most of my lady friends went part time or quit when their mortgage were paid off.

 

As for premarital counseling, my friends who did went through premarital counseling did so because of their faith. My hubby's employer subsidised health plan has free maritial counseling as a benefit.

[kewb]

I will add, I have been thinking about your dd not having a license. Living in the burbs of NJ requires driving. We are not known for our awesome mass transit. Therefore, if the plan is the burbs she should be looking into getting her license.

 

It also concerns me that her fiance seems insensitive to the fact that she would not have a way of getting around once they move. Unless he has been talking to her about getting her license. I am assuming he hasn't based on your saying dd does not have a license.

 

His lack of acknowledgement of her 3 hour commute is also a concern to me combined with her lack of driving. If anything they should be looking for an apartment in Fort Lee or Jersey City. For walkability and ease of her commute while they save for a house.

[dirty ethel rackham]

You are doing a great job, Mom!  You are showing admirable discretion and restraint.  Two areas where I would encourage you not to keep your mouth shut ... 1)  I would encourage your dd to stand up for herself to the inlaws.  Even though the inlaws are putting in $$, so did you.  So your money is your backing of dd's desires for the wedding.  2)  I also agree with pp's that premarital counseling would be a good idea.  This will give them tools to not only negotiate their differences now (not as one person giving in to another but to work through things together), but to deal with the things that life will throw at them. 

[QueenCat]

I feel like I should say this too since several of you brought it up.

 

She has already agreed to move out to NJ. They discussed it back when they got engaged in December (they waited to plan the wedding till she finished grade school). It's just now that the reality of it has hit her! It's not like he made a unilateral decision.

 

You seem very concerned about the moving part. I promise you that people move all the time, to new places and new surroundings. They adapt unless they choose not to. It will be okay.

[QueenCat]

 

 

The money. We gave her a certain amount, no strings attached. They could elope or whatever. His parents matched our gift...but have strings. Or at least comments. They have friends they want to invite - I am not expecting my friends to be invited! This won't be a big wedding - about 80 people. They strongly strongly encouraged that their daughter be in the wedding party. They pooh-poohed my daughter when she said that she wanted carrot cake or pies - they believe in a traditional cake. Nothing big but I feel like my daughter is being disrespected. I want her to have what she wants, or what she and he want, not what anyone else wants!

 

 

I think it can be hard when families have different customs and traditions. I can see why they would want their daughter included in the wedding party. It's part of melting the families together, especially since your dd has her sisters in the wedding party. If she only had friends and not sisters, it'd be easier for her soon to be sister-in-law to not feel excluded. Comments and strings are two very different things. And you are probably only hearing one side's interpretation of what is actually being said. I would expect to be able to invite certain friends to my child's wedding, primarily because we have a few friends to whom we are closer to than family. It'd be like not inviting family. The cake thing is kind of petty on their part, though, if it was really said with the "pooh pooh" attitude. But I really don't think your daughter is being disrespected. These people are becoming her family, and it sounds like, in their family, people give input to each other. Try to encourage her to get to know them, as they are becoming her family. And try to know them a bit yourself, with the attitude of love, and you might find out that you like them.

[Garga]

They're wise to spend the money on a photographer. I have a number of friends who say that all that's left of the day are the pictures, so don't skimp on those.

[ktgrok]

Is she not wanting her father to give her away because of the patriarchal overtones of being given away? If so, and I can understand that, would she consider still having him walk her down the aisle, but not having him "give her away". Just as an escort? that way he gets the memory of walking her down the aisle, but there isn't the icky association of being given rather than being her own person. 

[QueenCat]

Is she not wanting her father to give her away because of the patriarchal overtones of being given away? If so, and I can understand that, would she consider still having him walk her down the aisle, but not having him "give her away". Just as an escort? that way he gets the memory of walking her down the aisle, but there isn't the icky association of being given rather than being her own person. 

 

That is a great idea!!!

[MedicMom]

Is she not wanting her father to give her away because of the patriarchal overtones of being given away? If so, and I can understand that, would she consider still having him walk her down the aisle, but not having him "give her away". Just as an escort? that way he gets the memory of walking her down the aisle, but there isn't the icky association of being given rather than being her own person.

I didn't like the patriarchal overtones, but my dad really wanted to walk me down the aisle. I compromised and both parents walked me down. It seemed less patriarchal, no giving away of the bride was mentioned, and everyone was happy.

 

My parents and My in laws would have been extremely upset if we had moved in together. We were 27 and 25 at the time, and once an apartment we liked came open we jumped on it. Since we were still months away from the wedding, we just did a civil wedding at my house with immediate family. We had a big religious service wedding three months later.

 

I would discuss some of it with her, honestly. I don't think your concerns are invalid.

[vonfirmath]

*hugs* My SIL got married last summer to her then-fiance' (earlier than the wedding) because his job moved him to the city and they were having problems figuring out a short term rental situation. So they got married civilly. They still had a big wedding in October, when originally planned. No big deal.

 

I was hurt because she didn't ask my husband (her brother) to be part of the wedding. (I asked SIL to be one of my bridesmaids because she was my husband's sister even though I didn't know her that well.) Or our kids. At the last minute (After we got to the wedding), she asked him to do a reading. Then pulled that back too when her pastor said HE wanted to do the Bible reading.

 

As for the friction between daughter and her to-be-husband...  You might reccommend pre-marital counseling because that is generally useful regardless.

 

And the relationship between daughter and her in-laws is your daughter's responsibility. Good for you staying quiet even though it hurts!  If she doesn't ask, there isn't anything you can do about it. Unfortunately :(

 

 

[HS Mom in NC]

I didn't have anyone walk me down the aisle for two reasons: 1.  I'm not living in the Middle Ages 2.  My dad and step-dad are equal in my life and always have been so I wasn't willing to choose between them 3.  Having two people do it is even more silly to me than one 4. see number 1. I have no regrets at all about it.  I know some people put all kinds of sentiment behind that but I'm not by nature a sentimental person. It's also silly to me to have anyone escorted down an aisle for any reason.  This isn't high society Victorian England where a woman had to have a man or married woman escort her around.  If someone genuinely wants too, great! Do it!  If not, everyone needs to get over the idea that a wedding has to have anything in particular in it. It can have any variety of things in it but absolutely none are obligatory. Refusing to accept that is choosing to be hurt offended when it's not necessary. Sorry mothers of the brides and MILs of the brides,  what you want in your child's wedding doesn't matter.  It just doesn't. Don't think or talk about it unless you're asked. I say that as the mother or 2 soon to be brides.

I didn't want a wedding at all, my husband did, I compromised and we had a very small one and invited who we wanted and did what we wanted.  It was our wedding.  My parents and step parents had each had 2-3 marriages before I had mine so that was more than enough opportunity to have a wedding the way they wanted. 

I get that moving in together is a big deal depending on your religious and philosophical views. I'm opposed to it myself.  My middle daughter moved in with her fiance last week and I wasn't thrilled, but she's an adult and it's not my decision. I explained to her why I didn't think it was a good idea and having spoken then, I now forever hold my peace. I did tell her that before they're married, no one should ever be in a relationship that they can't immediately walk away from so I told her she should have her own personal account that her money goes into and they should only have a joint account for paying bills if they have one at all which she already planned on doing.   She's not on the lease. Not that I expect or want them to break up, I assume they'll get married in 2 years and be happy together, but there is a chance. Anyway she's an adult, I'm not responsible for her actions and I did my job in religious training when she was a minor. What she chooses to do with that training as an adult is her business, not mine.

I think the need for premarital counseling is an indictment against an aspect of our culture. I grilled my then boyfriend on childrearing, finances, religious views and lifestyle issues in detail before we got engaged.  How could someone possibly accept a marriage proposal without knowing those things? Because of too many romance novels and romantic movies, that's how.  I was a child of multiple divorces and capable of learning so when I my husband and I were engaged when I was 19 and he was 25 we knew everything that could be known about what we were getting into. We didn't  need a long engagement to get to know each other. 

He had a crisis of faith and walked away from religion 12 years later, but having so many other practically compatible things in common made it survivable and manageable after an extremely rough patch for several years.  Way too many people get into relationships that are clearly doomed to begin with because they have little, if any real compatibility in things that matter.  We call it irreconcilable differences in divorce court-it's not like we're unaware of the phenomenon.  So the moral to the story is to teach our children to put their heads above their hearts when it's necessary and what necessitates it. If they can't do it thoroughly on their own then they need premarital counseling so someone can walk them through it.  Every couple needs to hammer it all out before a wedding; really before the engagement, but I'll take half a loaf. It's so much harder to break it off when deposits have been made, a ring has been purchased and invitations have been sent.  Anyone already unable to do the hard thing will find it even harder then.