Do you let your kid's behavior over the past year, affect their Christmas presents?

[Garga]

When I was 18 my company sent me for some training. I ate lunch with a group of people I didn't know. It was just after Christmastime.

 

A woman there talked about how her kids had been bad all December. "I told them that if they didn't stop being bad, they wouldn't get any presents. They didn't stop, so they didn't get any presents. But it was ok. My oldest gave my youngest his bike so the youngest still got a present."

 

I wanted to burst into tears. What a horrible little story. Her oldest son was compassionate and gracious and I have no idea where he got it from. He gave his bike to his little brother so at least the little brother could have a Christmas? Oh, what a precious, sad thing to do.

 

And I hated that woman. I mean, I didn't know her, but my reaction was so visceral. I didn't say or do anything and neither did anyone else. We all sat there in complete silence just staring at her. Everyone was shocked to the core I think.

 

I'm 42 and have never forgotten it. I wish I could go back in time and say *something* clever about how horrible her actions were and she should be ashamed of herself.

 

So, no. I wouldn't tie Christmas gifts to punishment. It's just too much. Christmas is sacred! :)

[OnMyOwn]

No, I wouldn't.  I really try to parent mostly by reinforcing positives or talking about how things could have been done differently.  Sometimes, I have punished my kids (mostly when they were younger with time out), but I would never link a punishment to such a special day.  

[ScoutTN]

Definitely not!!

 

For our family, as Christians, Christmas is about grace. God came to save us when we were his enemies. For us, Christmas is a celebration of the story of salvation, of redemption, of an undeserved gift beyond all measure. Our giving is in response and a reflection of this love from God and therefore is not tied to behavior. Grace cannot be earned.

[clementine]

Nope.  Punishment or consequences come immediately after behavior - not at Christmastime.  

[Seeking Squirrels]

Never. And we have lots of behavioral issues we're sorting through. Christmas comes once a year and it's something kids look forward to all year. It's not like an outing with a friend or a trip to the zoo that might get pulled for bad behavior in the days leading up to it. Those things can be given a second shot a week later or when behavior improves. Even if my child misbehaved horribly near christmas, I wouldn't take it away. That's just bad timing with it happening right at christmas. If the same behavior happened in July, a different consequence would have to be found, so I'd do the same if it happened in December. Taking away christmas sounds like something a child could resent all year. Even if they understood they had done wrong and "earned" the punishment, how would they not think bitterly of it any time over the following year. I could see them having a hard time getting excited for the next one.

 

We don't include the "naughty or nice" or santa knowing if you've been bad or good. It's just not even mentioned as a factor.

Edited December 14, 2015 by Whovian10

[frogger]

But I think it goes beyond just "not killing something".

 

If I had a kid who was really hard on stuff, he's not getting an expensive bike/skateboard/stereo, etc.

 

If I had a kid who was difficult about picking things up, he wouldn't be getting a large lego set with a million pieces to scatter all over (and shred my feet with).

 

Those kids would get presents, but if what they want intersects with what I don't want them to have because of how I think they will behave with it, then they are getting something else. Not a non-present, like socks (which are fine if they aren't the only present, you know what I mean). But not what they'd prefer, either.

I can understand the sentiment this isn't directed as an argument towards your statement. Just thinking.

 

Honestly, I still see that as just being responsible with my money etc. not really a punishment. I guess someone might think I'm punishing my children by not getting them a specific item though but of course, that implies that is something already owed that is being taken away. I'm not taking anything away by not getting them something. A gift is freely given, not expected, not deserved, and should have no strings attached. I have history in my childhood that makes it hard for me to even accept gifts because of that last thing. I prefer freedom and you can keep your gift if it comes with strings, thank you.

 

My daughter waited over two years for a harp. She was working and saving all her gift money from grandparents etc. but I continued to wait through multiple Christmases since it was an expensive item. She probably got more joy from receiving her little rental harp than many have from much more expensive gifts.

 

I'm getting my youngest son a large Lego set for Christmas, even though he is my messiest child. He will probably lose pieces and then have to patch it up with others or bargain with his brothers to get appropriate pieces but I don't care. It will bring him joy and I want him to have it.

 

My children do think of socks as real presents. Sometimes they run outside without bothering to put on shoes or take off their socks which is likely to cause stains and holes. That is why my two younger boys are now always responsible for buying their own socks regardless of time of year. I'm still putting socks in their stockings though and if they ruin them well, they're their socks so really it's their problem. Plus, they will have to purchase new ones not me. That is what makes it a "real" gift is that it isn't something I would regularly buy them anyway. I don't think that is true for most American children.

 

Mom in AZ, it was interesting to hear the research on kids with traumatic pasts. Thank you for posting it. I hadn't heard that before but it makes sense that the connections they have made in their mind with why things happen to them are not wired the same due to how they were treated. It is always a sorrowful thing to think about.

[sewingmama]

No I would never do that.

 

Although I do admit...I was tempted this year to not give a Santa present to a certain child who announced that he knew Santa wasn't real and then told his siblings :( But witholding a gift because he discovered the truth about something is kinda dumb so he'll still be getting it...

[PinkyandtheBrains.]

 

 

No.

[Daria]

Not directly, no.  But I do use that information in guiding decisions about what I think they are mature enough to handle, either in terms of the potential danger something might pose (tools, internet, etc) or in their willingness to care for something (anything pricey or alive).

 

Yes to this.  For example, my kid got a gym membership one year when I knew he was mature enough to go without me.  

 

But I would never use a gift as a reward or punishment.  

[TravelingChris]

No, I wouldn't do this and never have.  At different times, different children have been really challenging but correction is done at the time of the infraction, not saved up for Christmas.  I always try to give approximately the same value of gifts to each child. I give gifts because I love them, not based on their behaviors. Just count me as one with my fellow boardies on this.

[creekland]

Never even considered it.  Not thinking about it now either...

[AimeeM]

No.

Christmas is once a year. I'm not a fan of "taking away" (or even just "making less enjoyable") a once-a-year celebration.

 

Kids aren't known for their fabulous decision making capabilities. It's why they can't vote, or drive, or drink, right? Nah. In fact, it seems downright mean to me.

[PeacefulChaos]

No way.  

[Mimm]

No, I'm not Santa. I never did Santa because I always felt like it was weird and manipulative and not exactly the message I want to send. Sorry if that offends. :) I know some people are super attached to doing Santa. But I never wanted to tie stuff to behavior. I wanted them to be good because it's right and it's what we expect and I wanted them to recognize that their parents buy them gifts because we are generous and love them and want to do nice things for them. You tell a kid that Santa will bring them stuff if they're good, then they get an xbox and they think, what, they "deserve" it because they "earned" it with their good behavior?

[Lady Florida.]

No. Never.

 

Our boys are 20 years apart so there's no equality issue to deal with. However, Christmas is a time for giving and is not in any way tied to behavior.

Edited December 15, 2015 by Lady Florida

[Mommy22alyns]

No.  I understand the impulse, though.  I have thus far been extremely blessed with the girls' behavior.

[myfunnybunch]

Of course not.

 

Christmas gifts are gifts, given freely with love, not earned rewards.

[nd293]

What a horrible idea! That said, gifts don't have to be equal value - what makes something previous to one person might be different from what makes something previous to another. Ds might appreciate Minecraft for the PC as much as dd would appreciate a guitar.

Edited December 14, 2015 by nd293

[Tap]

No.  Gift giving is about gift giving, not about earning stuff (like wages or salaries.) Since Christmas is mostly a religious holiday for me, I wouldn't even consider an earned approach to it.  The grace/salvation of God is a free, unmerited gift that no one can earn. Jesus came to earth give us that grace/salvation. We celebrate his arrival here to do that at Christmas time. To make Christmas gift giving earned would be in direct conflict with my theological and doctrinal beliefs.

 

Do I think there should be consequences for bad behavior?  Sure.  If you don't get your school work done with a good attitude then you don't get privileges like screen time after school.  If you did a substandard job on your chore, you redo the chore until it's done correctly. If you don't accept the consequence and give me more attitude then you can lose playdate time or get extra chores. If you destroy your own toy on purpose you'll have to do without it-I won't replace it.  If you destroy someone else's toy on purpose you'll have to replace it with your allowance money.  If you don't have allowance money you'll have to work it off in extra chores and I'll replace it.  That kind of thing. 

 

If the OP is actually considering punishing a child by withholding Christmas gifts and nost just doing an informal poll out of curiosity to see if withholding Christmas gifts is something anyone would do , I suggest seeing a family counselor for other parenting ideas and to address any underlying ones. I know the original post isn't enough to go on, but I'm the parent of a formerly traumatized child and our adoption agency is a good one that provides continuing training with the latest research and specialists. I understand how serious this can be, so on the off chance something more significant is going on, I'm posting in detail on this topic.

 

If you're dealing with a formerly traumatized child or child with some sort of mental health issue you need to understand right now that most of those children do not process consequences as cause and effect the same way neurotypical children do-the brain research proves it. See a specialist that has been trained in that specific specialty.  Few are, so do your research.   You need professional help for that kind of thing.  Consequences are not going to work.  I repeat, consequences are not going to work.  In case you didn't hear that, consequences are not going to work. 

 

I personally know an adoptive parent of a traumatized child who refuses to accept the science that her child cannot be parented with consequences to modify behavior and it's a terrible mess that's getting worse. Few of us will have much of anything to do with her anymore because she insists she understands the research but refuses to adjust her parenting accordingly because of her pride.  It's a rare extreme example, but it happens sometimes.

I am absolutely not considering this. Christmas is a pretty much untouchable in our house.  It doesn't matter what has happened in the past year, I still give gifts that are appropriate for each child, and try to keep it fair in their eyes.

 

My question actually stemmed from my previous post about a child breaking toys and me rebuying them for Christmas presents.  There was a couple of posters who made some comments that made me start wondering if families actually do withhold Christmas presents from kids for behavior.  I had a longer post written that explained all of that, but I reworded it to get a more open answer from posters.   

 

I use presents for positive reinforcement (not Christmas presents). So, I guess, I do attach presents to behavior, but it is reward....not a punitive action.  For example, my dd17 was saving money to buy a North Face vest, when she had midterm grades that were all over 97%, I gave her the remaining $20 she needed to pay for it as a reward.  ~ DD9 has a hard time getting ready in the morning, so every day that she doesn't throw a tantrum before school, she gets a check mark on the calendar.  Each check is worth 50 cents when the Scholastic book order comes out each month.  

[TammyS]

No, I'm not Santa. I never did Santa because I always felt like it was weird and manipulative and not exactly the message I want to send. Sorry if that offends. :) I know some people are super attached to doing Santa. But I never wanted to tie stuff to behavior. I wanted them to be good because it's right and it's what we expect and I wanted them to recognize that their parents buy them gifts because we are generous and love them and want to do nice things for them. You tell a kid that Santa will bring them stuff if they're good, then they get an xbox and they think, what, they "deserve" it because they "earned" it with their good behavior?

 

Yeah.  We never did Santa, either (honestly, I think it's mean....not only the naughty/nice thing, but lying to the kids and knowing that one day they will find out and might be heartbroken). 

 

We do, however, celebrate St. Nicholas Day on Dec 6th.

[Tsuga]

Would you buy different gifts, based solely on your child's decisions over the previous year? Kind of a Naughty/Nice consequence....or reward? If you do, how do you handle equality between kids?

 

My MIL does the German thing... you get a present but everyone gets a lump of coal as well because nobody is perfect.

 

I like this. I think it is both merciful and a reminder that we all have a long way to go, LOL!

 

I should add that mom and dad get coal too... the kids find this hilarious.

Edited December 15, 2015 by Tsuga

[SparklyUnicorn]

But the Santa song says there is a connection!

 

Although he only checks the list for who is naughty or nice.  I don't think it says he withholds gifts when naughty. 

[SproutMamaK]

Just adding my voice to the chorus of not just no but HECK NO.

[East Coast Sue]

No!!! Christmas is a celebration of our Savior's birth. He didn't come to save the "good" people.

 

We don't celebrate Santa or the naughty/nice list.

[maize]

Let him. Then pretend like you can't see any of it. Makes passive-aggressive people crazy.

 

Unless this is going to make it so that you can't pay the light bill or something, then your husband is damaged that he would be that upset to buy another gift, particularly after he ruined the first one.

Absolutely not!

 

Frankly, what is perceived as "good" vs. "bad" behavior in children is often A) a matter of what the parent finds convenient, and B) manifestations of innate temperament and other characteristics the child may have little or no control over,

 

Let Christmas be a time of shared joy and family bonding, a time when the kid who struggles to live up to expectations can feel valued and loved and 100% important and included.

Edited December 15, 2015 by maize

[annandatje]

No!

[momacacia]

Never. I see Christmas gifts--really any "gift," if it's truly a GIFT--is not based on behavior, but on unconditional love, and should be given freely and cheerfully. Compensation based on behavior is just that, compensation, payment, reward, incentive.

 

And I don't even think gifts need to be perfectly equal as far as cost/value or amount and number of gifts--as long as they are given with the right heart attitude and not obvious disparity. Sure, oldest kid might get a bike for Christmas which could be fairly expensive, and 7yo could get a little $25 scooter. 7yo will not know or feel that disparity, even though the checkbook reveals it.

 

I'm sorry this is an issue wherever it is. :( And maybe it's just in the goofy Santa song. ;)

[mamiof5]

No. My Christmas shopping has nothing to do with the kids' behavior. I am thankful God doesn't keep a naughty and nice list, we mess up and He forgives us, and He still bestows His blessings upon us. If the kids misbehave they have consequences, but it doesn't reflect on their Christmas list

[lea_lpz]

No. Traumatizing much? I highly doubt most parents really practice this anymore or did they ever? It also just seems cruel and would leave them with questions as far as what did I do that was bad.

 

I like logical punishments and deal with discipline as it comes up.

 

I also tend to consider a child's maturity level in picking gifts as a few others mentioned, as in I wouldn't get a careless child a very costly gift if I didn't think they would be responsible with it based on their track record.

 

I'm also not largely into commercializing Christmas. So my kids don't get a ton of presents from us. We usually give each child 3 moderately priced gifts. We are spending in the $50-75 range per child. The whole naughty or nice santa thing is not a big emphasis (we do Santa, but he only brings one gift, a moderately priced gift in the $20-35 range).

 

I try to spend time making gifts to give, doing service projects, reading books about the true meaning of Christmas and reading the story of the nativity in the Bible, caroling, baking and crafting during the Christmas season to make it special.

[Reflections]

We could turn this and ask:  do we give our husband a gift based on his behavior all year?  What about the time he left his clothes all over the floor, and not in the laundry basket even though you repeatedly asked him not to?  Or, should our mom gift be performance based? Were we kind to everyone this year, did we have zero meltdowns, what about hiding in the bathroom secretly eating chocolate - should sneaky behavior be punished like this?  

 

Kids are people too. 

 

So, no. Nope. No way.  Seems cruel.  

 

Christmas is about giving.  Feeling love for our family and friends.  Drawing them closer in to our hearts.  Shoot, the whole season is about this that starts with Halloween -chasing demons away, Thanksgiving being thankful, Christmas giving and receiving love, and then finally, New Years, starting fresh.

[Artichoke]

Nope.  We do however consider maturity levels when giving gifts such as throwing knives, archery sets, or travel. 

[Catwoman]

Yeah. We never did Santa, either (honestly, I think it's mean....not only the naughty/nice thing, but lying to the kids and knowing that one day they will find out and might be heartbroken).

 

We do, however, celebrate St. Nicholas Day on Dec 6th.

WE LOVED DOING THE SANTA THING. It was fun for all, and no one was traumatized.

 

And it's not lying. It's SANTA. :hurray:

 

That is all. :D

 

(Just having some fun with you, Tammy -- not actually criticizing your choice because I'm sure your family has fun traditions of your own instead of doing the Santa thing. :))

[Elfknitter.#]

Although he only checks the list for who is naughty or nice. I don't think it says he withholds gifts when naughty.

Buuuutttttt... And maybe I'm wrong, but I thought that was the reason he checked the list. If you were nice, auto getting a gift. If you weren't, then SOL for you.

 

Thank Eddie Cantor for it's popularity. Kinda like Montgomery Wards and Rudolph.

[ktgrok]

WE LOVED DOING THE SANTA THING. It was fun for all, and no one was traumatized.

 

And it's not lying. It's SANTA. :hurray:

 

That is all. :D

 

(Just having some fun with you, Tammy -- not actually criticizing your choice because I'm sure your family has fun traditions of your own instead of doing the Santa thing. :))

 

What she said :)  Santa was never traumatizing to me or my sister, or my husband, or my oldest child (who knows the truth now). But we do NOT say that Santa won't bring them gifts if they are naughty. We leave that part out, other than a tongue in cheek "you know...Santa's watching" now and then. But they know they get gifts no matter what. 

[SKL]

We also did Santa and nobody is traumatized.

 

I remember when my kids were 3 or 4 and they ran into the living room, saw the tree, and said, "we been good!"  LOL.

 

I never pushed the "naughty or nice" thing, but my parents did mention it a few times when I was little, and it didn't ruin my life.  ;)

 

I still threaten to buy coal every year.  Nobody takes me seriously - no idea why.

 

I know there is a separate thread on Elf on the Shelf (which I did not open), but isn't that based on the idea that the kids' behavior is being logged and reported to Santa all month?  Or has that aspect been watered down?

[maize]

I've actually been contemplating locating a source of coal, I've told my kids about sneaking a lump into my brother's stocking when I was young and they would get a kick out of finding one in theirs. Coal not being an ordinary part of their lives and all. We had a coal burning stove to warm the house when I was a kid...

Edited December 15, 2015 by maize

[rocassie]

I do not tie behavior to gifts at all.  Other than behavior towards the actual gifts themselves.  I try really hard to have the punishment meet the crime.  Not that I always succeed mind you, but I try.

[rjand6more]

I do not base gift giving on behavior.  I have told the kids it would be a good idea to be on Mommy's good side while she is shopping and ordering things online, though. :)  I feel EXTRA generous when I am in a good mood. HA!  We don't do Santa either, so they know it is me doing all the shopping.  I have had had a pretty clean kitchen and decent attitudes toward school. :)  

 

Making things fair is hard.  With 6 kids. :)  I always make sure they get what they really want unless it is way expensive.  But sometimes it's really not.  My 8 year old wants a $25 toy.  That's all he can think of.  I have filled in for him other things I think he will love. 

 

I am sooooo excited for this year.  We are doing an electronic-free Christmas.  The kids came up with some fun alternatives.

[SKL]

I've actually been contemplating locating a source of coal, I've told my kids about sneaking a lump into my brother's stocking when I was young and they would get a kick out of finding one in theirs. Coal not being an ordinary part of their lives and all. We had a coal burning stove to warm the house when I was a kid...

 

I think they have little sacks of coal at the FedEx store.  :)

 

[Mimm]

My parents sometimes did a joke gift for one kid (that wasn't counted as one of their gifts). One time it was a lump of coal because they had been joking all month that he'd be getting coal. They wrapped it in this little box and he was begging to open the first gift then he pointed right at it and said, "How about that one??" And it was his coal. He laughed along with everyone else and got to open the next gift as well. (We always took turns.)

 

Another year they gave a different brother a barbie doll. Another year, someone got a roll of toilet paper. It became this funny speculation, who was going to get the prank gift each year. :)