Well, isn't THIS a lovely aspect of being 47...

[Susan Wise Bauer]

...The thing where you wake up at 2:30 AM and don't. go. back. to. sleep.

 

This is driving me batty. I've always been an unconscious-when-head-hits-pillow sleeper, never used to wake up before 6 AM or so. And now...not.

 

Come on, Hive, I know SOME of you have lived through this. What did you do? I'm thinking maybe I should just give up and get up and work (or moderate the forums), but I'm really not loving that as a long term solution. Hot milk? Boring book? Warm bath? Ambien? Single-malt scotch??

 

SWB

[fraidycat]

Lavender EO.

 

Evening Primrose Oil.

 

I've not lived through it. I use lavender to relax and have used EPO to help balance hormones and relieve symptoms.

[Laura Corin]

I recently started a thread on the subject that might contain some ideas for you:

 

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/560987-tricks-to-avoid-waking-up-at-2am/?p=6524202

 

I'm currently fine because I'm taking medication for another issue that knocks me out.

 

FWIW, I normally get up and go and read a book for an hour, then my brain seems to be settled enough that I can go back to sleep.  It's worth also thinking about your environment - the last time this happened to me, wearing ear plugs was what I needed, as the sawing noises from my sleeping partner had become too loud to tune out.

 

Best of luck.

 

Laura

 

 

[Joyofsixreboot]

Vodka ;)

[lewelma]

Great Expectations. 

 

I have the librivox audio book on a very old mp3 player.  The player half died 3 years ago and I cannot put any new books on it.  So I'm stuck with the best book ever written, read by the best reader in history. :thumbup1:   So when I can't sleep (which is many nights), I put it in my ears and listen.  I fall asleep, and when I wake up, I'm chapters ahead.  Did I mention that the rewind button is also broken?

 

So I have listened to Great Expectations for 3+ years, out of order.  Some nights, it is quite exciting because I hit a section that I have not heard in 2 years.  Other nights, it's a section that I know and love, and I listen with new found respect.  But regardless, it works a charm.  I fall asleep to Dickens every night and have since 2011.

 

Ruth in NZ

Scientist extraordinaire, but feeling very literary right now!

 

 

[creekland]

Not 2:30 (yet), but between 4:30 and 5:00 is super common for me and has been since my youth.  There are days where it's getting closer to 3am though.

 

Since this is new for you, I'd think there's a chance it could be fixed - no clue how though.  I'll be watching this thread for ideas.  

 

For me?  I've just gotten used to it.  I tend to stay in bed and think about my day or other life stuff if it's before 4:30 since that seems to be pushing it a bit.  If after, I tend to just get up and start my day.  I've grown accustomed to enjoying my mornings alone, but it means if I want to stay up at night I really need caffeine.  Staying up late won't help me sleep in the next morning either, so naps can be part of my day too.

[jenn-]

I'll tell you what my sleep doctor would say. If you wake up and are awake in bed for more than 10 minutes, get up, change locations, and read a boring book (no screens). As soon as you feel tired again, go back to bed. Your mind needs to be trained that bed= sleep again.

 

Granted this is from someone who was awake at 4 and is laying in bed on her phone, so it is easier said than done. I did have some success with a sleep podcast. It is a story teller that tells intentionally boring stories in a monotone voice that gradual gets softer as the story goes on. The podcast is called Sleep With Me.

[tm919]

To avoid the ambien-route (for now, at least), I bike/exercise every day and get a lot of bright sunlight. It seems to help. Even if it's a wonderful placebo, that's ok with me. 

 

I still have some of those nights where I only sleep 2 hours and then don't get back to sleep. Those nights, I just get up and work... often at 2 AM. If I weren't an insomniac, I'd be even further behind at work!

 

[freesia]

Yes, lovely! ( I, too, am 47) Fir me, the 4 am wake ups happen right before my period. Things that work best:

Not thinking--oh, no, I can't get back to sleep.

 

Getting up, moving to the couch and reading for 10 minutes. ( Any change of bed helps-so, if one of the kids is away I can use their bed).

 

100mg of L-theanine right before bed.

 

Best of luck--it is SO frustrating!

[Night Elf]

I hear you! I do all of the things you mentioned. I do take Ambien, only a half, but it doesn't keep me asleep all night all the time. I have to get out of bed. Even my doctor suggests that because otherwise I can learn to associate my bed with restlessness. I'm not sure I buy into that, but I do find it a help anyway. Sometimes I take a hot bath and read. Sometimes I come out into the living room and get on my computer. Sometimes I put in a movie, and sometimes even fall back asleep here on the loveseat. Definitely not as comfortable as my bed, but at least I'm asleep! Then I wake up by 7:00am the next morning. My doctor doesn't want me taking naps, but sometimes I just can't help it. My body is tired!

[nd293]

What Ruth said... (I can't make my iPhone quote tonight). I have always suffered from insomnia, but some months ago during a very stressful period I started listening to an audiobook, on my iPhone, one headphone in ear. I now play an audiobook all night, and my insomnia has improved by about 90%, I guess. I have the audiobook really soft, just enough to hear if I concentrate. If I wake up, I focus on the book, then I soon drift off. No more waking myself up further by switching on lights or (arrgh!) backlit electronics. No more stressing about being awake and how-long-will-it-be-until-I-fall-back-asleep. I also play the same book (actually 3 of a series) every night, and don't worry about the order as I know the stories well - they're light, amusing, YA steampunk with a pleasant reader.

 

I'm curious who 'the best reader in history' is? Mark Smith, Simpsonville, South Carolina?

[PrincessMommy]

At least you made it to 47!!  How lucky.  I was in my early 40's when it struck.  I found that nothing I do works forever, so I have switch things up a bit.  Lately, I've been using magnesium at night sometimes along with a natural sleep aid you would find at a whole food type store.  It usually has Evening Primrose, Valerian, and some other ingredients I don't remember.  The mag. is also for my restless leg, but it definitely helps relax me too.

 

If insomnia is really bad, and goes on for days, I take a benadryl along with wine in the evening.

 

For some reason this summer I've had one of the best sleeping summer in a very long time.  I don't know why.  I've been using the Mag. and sleep aid at night for well over a year. 

 

Good luck... hopefully you'll find something that will work soon.

[Mama Geek]

I have been waking up for years in the middle of the night not being able to sleep.  I now take a benadryl every night which has also significantly helped my allergy problems too.  I usually sleep 8 hours now.

[Onceuponatime]

The one thing you must not do is think about how you wish you were asleep, how much sleep you are missing, and how many hours of sleep you got that night. Oh wait, that's three things. One more, don't look at the clock. Stressing about it makes it worse.

 

Have you ever practiced progressive relaxation? Lay still in a comfortable position and try not to shift. Start at the top of your head and consciously relax the muscles on your scalp, visualize the tension flowing down your body and out through your feet and hands. After that move to your forehead, face, neck, shoulders, down your body until you reach your feet, which may never happen, if you fall asleep. I also try imagining I am floating on my back in a pool, and let my thoughts wander aimlessly. Taking magnesium also seems to help some.

 

If the insomnia is stubborn, I get up, have a few sips of water and a tiny snack, read a chapter of a book, then go back to bed.

[Pawz4me]

Melatonin helped me, but I could only take it for a week or so at a time or I'd start having weird dreams.  But it was great for a few days at a time to help me catch back up.

 

If the insomnia is accompanied by hot flashes, I highly recommend giving Brisdelle a try.  After months of being jolted awake followed seconds later by the awful heat and flushing, after two months of taking it I'm sleeping like a log again.

[The Girls' Mom]

Magnesium helps quite a bit.  (at least it generally keeps me from smothering my dh with a pillow, because he's usually the reason I can't go back to sleep when I wake up)

 

 

[geodob]

One thing that I would ask, is if your bedroom is full dark?

Our pineal gland produces melatonin, which is what keeps us asleep.

But the pineal gland is connected to receptors at the back of the eyes.

When the receptors don't detect any light, it switches on production of melatonin.

Then when they detect light, they switch off melatonin production.

 

So that it is important to sleep in fully dark room.

I find that the even light from my alarm clock, causes a problem.

So perhaps you could check that your room is fully dark?

 

But ironically, I was listening to someone that had done a study into the 'history of sleep'?

Where apparently in past centuries, it was normal for people to sleep for a few hours. Get up for a few hours, and then go back to sleep for a few hours.

So it seems that this practice of 8 hours continuous sleep, is something quite new?

[kroe1]

The house is quiet and peaceful. It is the one time I am alone. I embrace insomnia for the gift it is.

[happypamama]

Apparently, being awake for a while is normal, and I've read that in the past, people would go visiting during those hours in the middle of the night, then go back to sleep.

 

My midwife recommended magnesium when I was suffering from insomnia during pregnancy. NaturalCalm is a good way of getting it.

[ScoutTN]

When I wake in the wee hours, it is usually because of stress or worry, so I try to address that primarily. Trying to fix the sleep without fixing the underlying problem is ineffective for me. A worried mind will always overpower the relaxation techniques and wake me up. I try to give some extra daytime thought to the issue at hand and spend my right before bed reading time in Bible reading and prayer. When I wake I go back to my Bible reading or occasionally pick up a novel and just read until I am sleepy, usually about an hour.

 

Going through menopause, however, required a different strategy. Acuncture and Chinese herbs helped me to sleep through the night, eliminated hot flashes and moderated mood swings. I went weekly for a while and then twice a month, then once a month and now just evey six weeks or so.

[Guest]

Oh, bummer. I'm 44 and still unconscious-when-head-hits-the-pillow. I'm currently enjoying my smug denial that things could possibly change.

[trulycrabby]

Moderating the forum at 3:00 am will challenge your belief in the good of humanity. Read Rod and Staff English 3 instead. :zombie:

 

A rotation of Magnesium, Calms Forte, melatonin, Enzymatic Therapy's Sleep Formula, and and an occasional Unisom have helped. Just don't take them all at once. :zombie:

[regentrude]

I get up, putter around the house a bit,read,  maybe even work, for an hour. Then I go back to bed and fall asleep easily. Something about the hour up resets the rhythm and allows me a fresh start.

 

Staying in bed, trying to go back to sleep, never works for me. I have learned to simply give in and get up for a while.

[elegantlion]

Benadryl and the occasional glass of moscato are the only things that work for me. I'm 48 and have tried other solutions without success.

[Miss Tick]

Hmm, there isn't any discussion of anxiety here. Am I the only one that wakes up and immediately focuses on some terrible scenario in my head and then has to spend the next half hour talking myself down before I can think about going back to sleep?

[73349]

Go to another room (still in the dark) and try a guided meditation? I've been known to swipe DS's Sitting Still Like a Frog CD and use one of the ones on that.

[Jamee]

Hmm, there isn't any discussion of anxiety here. Am I the only one that wakes up and immediately focuses on some terrible scenario in my head and then has to spend the next half hour talking myself down before I can think about going back to sleep?

No, you are not alone in that. I've had luck with essential oils too, I use a sleep blend. On really bad nights, I take a melatonin.

 

Hope you can get some rest.

[Jane Elliot]

Write more books! Make us all happy.

 

I saw this quote from Marilynne Robinson on her writing routine: "I have benevolent insomnia. I wake up, and my mind is preternaturally clear. The world is quiet. I can read or write. It seems like stolen time. It seems like I have a twenty-eight hour day." (Daily Rituals)

​

​​I'm 48 and have been dealing with waking at 2:30 since my early 40s. I still can't quite see insomnia as "benevolent." My mind is not "preternaturally clear" ever, and especially not in the middle of the night, but I do enjoy the quiet. Like lewelma I listen to audiobooks, but my drug of choice is Juliet Stevenson reading Jane Austen. Or I read a book. Sleepytime tea helps sometimes. :grouphug:​ I hope you find something that works for you.

 

 

 

 

[creekland]

Oh, bummer. I'm 44 and still unconscious-when-head-hits-the-pillow. I'm currently enjoying my smug denial that things could possibly change.

 

My grandmother used to warn me that these times would come.  I was probably 8 - 10 at the time and thought she was full of... something... you know, making life all about her rather than the things that were important to us kids.

 

Now I warn my kids.  They are boys so won't get some of it, but their wives might, so the warning still applies.  It'll make sense to them in, say, twenty to twenty five years.

 

This has been a helpful thread to read and it makes me wonder if we should all get together around 3:30 or so to commiserate together.  Then my brain remembered we're not all in the same time zone.  There's always a catch, isn't there?

 

In the meantime, I believe I'm going to add magnesium to my diet and will soon be googling foods high in it (preferring foods to supplements if possible).

[Catherine]

My insomnia was non-existent until I started home schooling a decade ago, which meant working weekend nights for me.  Even though I do not work full time, it was enough to completely end my capability to sleep more than 3-4 hours at a stretch, many nights. What has helped:

 

-regular vigorous exercise.  You have to sweat and be out of breath for it to really help IMO.

-magnesium-helped a tiny bit

-when I'm desperate, melatonin

 

I do not take the whole melatonin, I smash the pills and take about 1 mg.  It carries over, for me, meaning, it's easier for me to go to sleep, or BACK to sleep, for a couple of days after I take one.  Apparently I have a deficiency of the thing that makes one go to sleep.

[Ethel Mertz]

My doc prescribed 25 mg of Elavil, which I take with this supplement and Rescue Remedy Sleep Aid. This combination works most of the time. I get the best sleep when I stay off screens after 9:30. Ear plugs (if you have someone who snores in your life) and a dark room help too. Other times, if it's after 4:00 am, I just get up.

[maize]

And here I was looking forward to actually being able to sleep once I don't have babies to wake me...

[Guest]

Creekland nuts are high in magnesium. Cashews and Almonds are especially good. I gave them to DD when she had chronic constipation. It cleared it up like nothing before.

 

I use Natural Calm for DS. It is Calcium/Magnesium and helps him relax and sleep.

[Rockhopper]

What Ruth said... (I can't make my iPhone quote tonight). I have always suffered from insomnia, but some months ago during a very stressful period I started listening to an audiobook, on my iPhone, one headphone in ear. I now play an audiobook all night, and my insomnia has improved by about 90%, I guess. I have the audiobook really soft, just enough to hear if I concentrate. If I wake up, I focus on the book, then I soon drift off. No more waking myself up further by switching on lights or (arrgh!) backlit electronics. No more stressing about being awake and how-long-will-it-be-until-I-fall-back-asleep. I also play the same book (actually 3 of a series) every night, and don't worry about the order as I know the stories well - they're light, amusing, YA steampunk with a pleasant reader.

 

I'm curious who 'the best reader in history' is? Mark Smith, Simpsonville, South Carolina?

 

You can't leave us hanging -- you must share! Titles, reader?

[Ellie]

Welcome to my world. :D

 

And hey--we should all just check in here when we're awake in the wee hours and have a party. Maybe we should start an Insomniacs thread, like the "Ignore this thread" thread.

 

The rule of thumb is that if you are awake longer than half an hour, you should just get up. I usually get up and check my e-mail, and FB; sometimes I make a cup of tea; and sometimes I put on a laundry movie and sleep in my comfy recliner. [laundry movie: one that I know well and can let play in the background while I do laundry. Or sleep. Coined by someone in the Hive.] Last night (or the wee hours of this morning) it was "Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves.").

 

I'm pretty sure my insomnia issues are because of my chronically undermedicated low thyroid. :mad:

[Lawana]

Progesterone/estrogen imbalance is a possibility.

 

I had the same thing happen to me and it was ruining my life. Tried over the counter progesterone cream, but that wasn't very effective. Ended up going to a doctor that tested hormones via a saliva test and prescribed a hormone cream compounded at a compounding pharmacy.

 

Google estrogen dominance if you are interested in reading more.

[MBM]

My husband often woke up for years in the middle of the night. The things that have helped him:

 

A 3-10" massage before bedtime. This has had the best effect on him. We bought a cheap massage chair because it helps to relax him when he's getting a massage. 

 

http://www.prevention.com/health/health-concerns/3-minute-massage-shown-lengthen-sleep

 

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0040G0JOC?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage

http://www.amazon.com/Portable-Massage-Chair-Tattoo-Carry/dp/B0040FYS3Q/ref=sr_1_11?ie=UTF8&qid=1440249944&sr=8-11&keywords=massage+chair

 

Applying magnesium lotion/gel at night  People with kidney problems and low blood pressure should be careful about using magnesium gel. We buy ours from Amazon -- Dr. Shealy's.

 

Making the bedroom cooler at night also helps.

 

Sending teens off to college. :D

 

Good luck. Hope you find something that helps soon.

[teachermom2834]

My doctor put me on trazadone. It is an old school antidepressant but the dose she gave me was below the dosage for depression. It worked wonders for staying asleep but it doesn't knock me out. I would hear a kid that needed me and would easily wake and be able to drive if necessary. It was just enough to prevent that nightime waking. It worked great for me. Sleep is important!

[merry gardens]

(Sung to the tune from Handle's Messiah Alleluia Chorus)

 

Melatonin! Melatonin, melatonin, me-la-ah-to-nin.

 

 

____

On a more scientific note, our bodies produce less of this naturally occurring substances as we age. Some studies seem to link that rather than reduced melatonin being a result of menopause, menopause may be triggered by the reduction of melatonin. 

[Bluegoat]

I've started this in the past year, and I'm only 39.  It really stinks.   In fact the other night I had to take sinus meds, and I hoped it might at least keep me asleep.  No luck - I woke up but was completely stoned.

 

I have only two thoughts, and only one is a potential solution.  Whenever I was pregnant I also had similar problems, but with my last pregnancy they went away when I started doing the hypnobabies program.  I used to listen to the CD in bed - and it would give me restless legs while I was listening - but after that, I was dead to the world for the night.  IIRC, the company actually has a cd set for sleeplessness specifically.  That might be worth looking into.  I know some people worry about hypnotism, but I did do a little research and what I found is that it is really just a normal state that people go into that you are learning to control more directly.

 

The second thought is that a year or so ago, I read a really interesting article suggesting that a two phase sleep pattern is actually quite normal in humans, especially in the winter when nights are longer.  People used to plan to be up during those hours, often doing a quiet activity like reading or praying - monks and nuns who have group prayers in the night are perhaps an example of this.  I used to have a professor that did this too, he found he could get a lot of work done during that time because there were no distractions.

 

So - another way to deal with it might just be to consider allowing yourself to be up then and really taking a different approach to sleep.

[FaithManor]

Susan, I am right there with you! 47 too!

 

I do better when I get away from screens - apparently the backlighting of computer monitors and tablets and such can rile up the brain and we become more susceptible during the crazy of perimenopause - an hour before I want to fall asleep. It has also helped to sew or read or craft but not even watch tv from a distance during the time leading up to bed.

 

If you are not opposed to a small glass of wine, sherry, brandy...that is a big help. When I get into this rut, I make hot tea and add just a small shot of flavored Schnapps. Peppermint tea with peppermint Schnapps is nice. One caveat, woman to woman, is that this makes me very relaxed and sleepy which can interfere with brewing the other tEa. And on that subject, tired and somewhat slowing down 51 year old dh is sometimes called upon to wake up, buck up, and make tEa because for me, I get sleepy afterward. That is a very individual thing. Some women have the opposite problem.

 

Going to bed even slightly hungry doesn't help so five or six GF pretzels and a piece of celery or cheese right before bed is a must.

 

That said, sometimes nothing works, but most of the time these things do help.

[creekland]

Creekland nuts are high in magnesium. Cashews and Almonds are especially good. I gave them to DD when she had chronic constipation. It cleared it up like nothing before.

 

I use Natural Calm for DS. It is Calcium/Magnesium and helps him relax and sleep.

 

Thanks!  Cashews are part of my daily morning routine/breakfast, so that's good.  There are a couple of almonds in the dark chocolate I eat.  The combo MUST therefore be a health food I ought to eat more of, right?

 

And right now - well, a few minutes ago - I had to test the walnuts I'm about to use in the cookies I'm making, so hopefully they have some too.  I could easily add walnuts into my daily plan - without the cookies (those are for a special event today).

 

 

And hey--we should all just check in here when we're awake in the wee hours and have a party. Maybe we should start an Insomniacs thread, like the "Ignore this thread" thread.

 

The rule of thumb is that if you are awake longer than half an hour, you should just get up.

 

I love your idea!  First one up tonight starts it?

 

Usually I don't get on the computer right away - that's often after either chores or showering pending my schedule for the day - but I might be able to revise what I do in the wee dark hours.

 

I don't think I ever stay in bed the required half hour (awake).  I don't think I could do that.  If I'm not falling back asleep relatively quickly it annoys me more to stay in bed.

[JFSinIL]

Hubby wakes up and has to listen to the most boring, dull as ditch-water podcasts he can find to get back to sleep.  For me, if I can't get back to sleep after the typical middle of the night potty run (curse you, middle-aged bladder!) , I work on getting my toes to sleep. Making them feel warm and heavy.  Then I slowly work up my feet to my ankles, etc etc - have never remembered getting past my knees. So it must work (at least for me).  Sometimes I just mentally go to the beach (am from S. California) and lie on the warm sand and listen to the waves....zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

 

 

I agree - avoid electronics (including posting on the boards) as the "blue light" from screens can just make you more awake. Or so I have read.

[Shelly in IL]

Natural zzz's. Recommended my my chiropractor. Not habit forming and are herbs. Works great if taken 1/2 hour before bed

[Orthodox6]

Also an aspect of being 20.  I have lived with insomnia for forty years now. 

 

I don't believe that there is a "one size fits all" solution.  You will have to try various remedies until you find something that works.  In my own case, "what works" helps for a while, then peters out, forcing me to try again with something else.  (Over forty years, there are a lot of "repeats" in the mix.) 

 

Research seems unified to avoid tablets, computers, televisions, cell phones, and the like from sundown onward.  At the least, stop two-to-three hours prior to retiring for the night. 

 

Every night I cover bedroom clocks, radios, telephone, and DVD player with washcloths to block those lights.  Light-blocking curtains don't even help as expected, because light comes into the room from around the top and side edges. 

 

Melatonin often is cited by reflex.  Do, though, read some of the "con" articles about using a hormone for this purpose. 

 

Reduce stress is advised.  That is buffoonery in my case, but I hope helpful for other people. 

 

Alcohol does not aid sleep.

 

Valerian is great -- so long as you don't mind getting up during the night to urinate. 

 

Prescriptive meds have a long rap sheet.  I confess, nonetheless, to sleeping by means of doctor-suggested trazodone for about four years, long ago.

 

. . . and the list goes on . . .

 

MY SINCERE BEST WISHES, DR. BAUER, FOR YOUR RELIEF ! ! !

[Halcyon]

I havent read through the whole thread, but I am experiencing the same thing (I am 45). I had always been a wonderful sleeper.

 

I am having my progesterone levels tested now (results should be back in a week). They decline relative to estrogen (estradiol) as we age, and you may need supplementation (progesterone cream works the best). Supposedly, if your levels are low and you start treatment, you return to blissful, unawakened sleep...

 

One can dream.

 

Good luck.

[Orthodox6]

 

One can dream.

 

 

. . . but only if one is asleep! 

 

:001_smile:

[Starr]

Estrogen - I was on hormones for a couple of years and it was wonderful!

[Halcyon]

Progesterone/estrogen imbalance is a possibility.

 

I had the same thing happen to me and it was ruining my life. Tried over the counter progesterone cream, but that wasn't very effective. Ended up going to a doctor that tested hormones via a saliva test and prescribed a hormone cream compounded at a compounding pharmacy.

 

Google estrogen dominance if you are interested in reading more.

 

This is exactly what I was talking about--if my levels are low, I will try the creme first, but then will switch to a prescription from a compounding pharmacy if it doesnt work. 

[Lolly]

You learn to roll with it. I check my internet sites (I have found no benefit to avoiding screens). I read. I clean the kitchen because I really dislike cleaning it at night because people just keep messing it up afterwards. I pay bills. I avoid running the vacuum because dh would not appreciate it. I read. Generally, I am ready for bed after two hours of wakefulness. I do nap during the day. Days that I nap, I will usually sleep a little better at night.