Strong Christian content

[Journey]

This might get long so bear with me.  I am a 50 something year old single mom of two really great girls.  One is 27 the other 20.  They've honestly never given me a day of trouble and for that I am so thankful and grateful to God.  I became a Christian at the age of 33.  I was pregnant with my youngest and not married.  Her father and I were going to get married though.  until I got saved.  until my over the top (I didn't know it then) born again SIL and her sister got ahold of me.  I thought this SIL was the greatest thing ever and I believed and hung on every word she said.  for 12 years.  In those 12 years I allowed her to be my god.  I didn't know I was doing it.  she was very active in our church almost like the female leader if you will even though she wasn't but everyone liked her and everyone wanted to be around her and I thought I was pretty cool because I was able to be around her.  Well, fast forward to the last few months or so I've come to realize that this SIL is a huge mess and most of what she told me about the Lord was wrong...at least about the Lord that I want to know.  She showed me a lot of things about her "lord" but I don't want to know that one.  that one is mean and angry and if you don't do the right thing nothing is going to work out.  well in my life today, it seems like nothing is working out and I feel myself praying less and less and trying to just survive on my own self and decisions.  I don't really pray anymore because it doesn't seem to work.  I know, I know He is right here with me but when it seems like none of my prayers are being answered and things keep getting more and more overwhelming, praying is the last thing I think to do because I'm just thinking about making it through one more day.  I am afraid that I am going to walk away from Him.  I'm afraid that he's mad at me because I'm allowing my 20 year old to date an unbeliever.  I'm afraid that He's mad at me because I don't really like people anymore(!) and I'm afraid that He's mad at me because I just feel sad and overwhelmed so much lately.  I keep going back to what I was told I had to do back them....leave my daughter's father, not talk to my unbelieving family members (most of them are unbelievers),  I'm rambling now because I have so many things I want to say and I can't think of any of them now but the bottom line is that I'm just so tired of trying so hard to be the Christian that I think I have to be that I don't even want to be one anymore.  I just got another text that yet another thing hasn't worked out.  I know He works all things out for the good of those who love God and that He won't give us more than we can handle.  I know all of that and I know one day I will look back on all of this and say "what was the big deal" but it is a big deal right now.  I feel like I'm hanging on by a thread and I don't see the ground that I need to hold me up.  do any of you have any idea what I'm talking about?  edited to add...I don't have a relationship with that SIL any longer and as for my daughter and her relationship, I am fine with it and that makes me feel guilty. she isn't going to marry this person and I know she is probably the only believer in his life so I feel like her good values and morals will make an impact on him so I kind of push her on this subject of seeing him.  we have started going to a new church but I have such a large wall built around me that I don't know if I can let down any of my walls.  this just sucks really, really bad.  I don't want to listen to praise music or read (I do read my bible every day but more of a duty than a pleasure (and I feel guilty about that too)).  I just want to cry all day long and that's not really possible, I have to keep up a good front for my girls because they don't need to see my like this.

[fraidycat]

Just a couple questions to ask yourself. I don't need the answers:

 

If He is so great, why all the fear? Either he forgives, or not.

 

Would Jesus have turned his back on so many people like you were told to?

 

Why would you want to stick with something that has you this twisted up? Maybe you can find a different, more loving denomination. Or none at all. Take a break.

 

Perhaps some counseling for spiritual abuse.

 

:grouphug: :grouphug:

[OhanaBee]

(((Journey)))

 

God is so much bigger than your SIL.  And it sounds like He's probably very different than the image your SIL has presented to you [at least God, as *I* understand Him].

 

God is not going to be mad at you for "allowing" your 20yo to date an unbeliever.  You are not in charge of your child's life.  Your daughter is making her own choices and those are HER choices and that's between God and her [if she's a Christian].

 

God is NOT mad at you because you're sad and overwhelmed.  He's a God of compassion and totally understands those feelings.  He's not going to give up on you just because you're human - He MADE you that way!!

 

My dh walked away from Christianity 10 years ago, to convert to Judiasm.  My three girls followed him and then the oldest was baptized LDS when she was 19.    My middle dd is dating an unbeliever, perhaps agnostic..I'm not sure, and I don't think he is either.  God know their hearts.  And he knows my Mommy heart who wishes they would just make the choices *I* think they should make [WHY won't they listen to me?!?].  God is not mad at me or judging me because of their choices.  And He's not doing that to you either.

 

Ditch the SIL and her pseudo-Christian ideas that are making you believe God only cares about you if you do X, Y, and Z.

[Slache]

Yes!! I'm sorry. It will get better. He's not mad at you! He died for you. If he had to die again just for you he would do it in a second. I wish I had the perfect thing to say. I don't. Be in the word, listen to sermons and praise music, and read books about him. I like Crazy Love by Francis Chan, for starters. I'm sorry I don't have something better and more efficient to say.  :grouphug:

[Cindy in FL.]

I agree with OhanaBee. I think you need to take a deep breath and a big step back from your SIL. Get in the Word, ask God to reveal Himself to you, tell Him how overwhelmed you are. Find a new church if you need to.

 

Reconnect with your family members. God doesn't want you to sever those ties just because they are non-Christians. If they are abusive, then by all means do what you need to protect yourself. Otherwise, they are the family God gave you and you should be in relationship with them.

 

I am praying for you!

[Rosie_0801]

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

 

No god worth knowing picks on people like a school yard bully. God doesn't need your lunch money.

 

Focus on what makes you feel supported.

[Chris in VA]

I just have a minute and I wanted to give you a :grouphug: , and just say one thing--

 

That whole "God doesn't give more than you can handle" is a Load. Of. Crap. It is not in the bible and it is really poor theology.

 

1.  God frequently allows us to have more than we can handle.

2.  God promises never to leave us, and promises to help.

3. He says in this world, you will have trouble. Then he says he has overcome the world, so take heart. That does not mean circumstances will   improve, but it does mean you can choose to get thru those circumstances with God.

4. Your dd has free will.

5. God is not mad at you.

[Laurie4b]

The relationship you describe with the female leader in your church who happens to be your sister-in-law fits into "spiritual abuse." Below are some sites that I know of that are a place to start for those who have been spiritually abused. I'll define that loosely as emotionally abused (including controlled) by a person in authority in a church or perceived to be in authority.

http://thewartburgwatch.com/  This is the site I'm most familiar with. They tend to blog on current events in the church, with a focus on trends that are leading to abuse. Several people on the boards are in various stages of coming out of spiritual abuse.

 

https://futuristguy.wordpress.com/  He has some excellent thinking about the dynamics of spiritual abuse.

 

http://spiritualsoundingboard.com/  This site is a link to a board that is for recovering from spiritual abuse.

 

http://www.churchexiters.com/  The woman who runs this site did her doctoral thesis on spiritual abuse

 

Generally, these sites will have other sites linked, so you can follow several trails to find information and help that suits your situation.

 

I'm sorry this happened to you, but glad for you that you are coming out of it.

[SparklyUnicorn]

She sounds abusive, mentally ill, or both.  Could you distance yourself from her?  Maybe find some other church or group of people.  I'm not religious myself, but the only times I've encountered this is with people who have a mental illness.  They really had a very twisted view of things.

[Katy]

What was it that drew you to that church in the first place?  It sounds as if you felt like you found a place you belonged, and where you felt good about yourself.  It also sounds as if you got drawn into a fair amount of spiritual abuse and now that you're recognizing that you are coming to realize that you wouldn't make the same choices now that you did then.  But still, you are subjecting yourself to that abuse all over again because you love and accept your adult daughter's choices rather than judging and alienating her.

 

You are making the right choice about your daughter.  She is an adult, you can't and shouldn't choose who she dates for her, or YOU would be the one being abusive.

 

When I feel rotten about spiritual things I often feel better by listening to Christian music.  I like praise and worship best, but hymns or Christian pop can help too.

 

You clearly need some time and healing.  And a therapist who is good at dealing with spiritual abuse issues might be a great help for you.  Check around with different pastors in the area and ask if they can recommend a therapist for that issue.

[Cindy in FL.]

Spot on, Chris. This always bothers me, too. I believe God doesn't give us more than He can handle!

 

I just have a minute and I wanted to give you a :grouphug: , and just say one thing--

 

That whole "God doesn't give more than you can handle" is a Load. Of. Crap. It is not in the bible and it is really poor theology.

 

1. God frequently allows us to have more than we can handle.

2. God promises never to leave us, and promises to help.

3. He says in this world, you will have trouble. Then he says he has overcome the world, so take heart. That does not mean circumstances will improve, but it does mean you can choose to get thru those circumstances with God.

4. Your dd has free will.

5. God is not mad at you.

[TranquilMind]

This might get long so bear with me.  I am a 50 something year old single mom of two really great girls.  One is 27 the other 20.  They've honestly never given me a day of trouble and for that I am so thankful and grateful to God.  I became a Christian at the age of 33.  I was pregnant with my youngest and not married.  Her father and I were going to get married though.  until I got saved.  until my over the top (I didn't know it then) born again SIL and her sister got ahold of me.  I thought this SIL was the greatest thing ever and I believed and hung on every word she said.  for 12 years.  In those 12 years I allowed her to be my god.  I didn't know I was doing it.  she was very active in our church almost like the female leader if you will even though she wasn't but everyone liked her and everyone wanted to be around her and I thought I was pretty cool because I was able to be around her.  Well, fast forward to the last few months or so I've come to realize that this SIL is a huge mess and most of what she told me about the Lord was wrong...at least about the Lord that I want to know.  She showed me a lot of things about her "lord" but I don't want to know that one.  that one is mean and angry and if you don't do the right thing nothing is going to work out.  well in my life today, it seems like nothing is working out and I feel myself praying less and less and trying to just survive on my own self and decisions.  I don't really pray anymore because it doesn't seem to work.  I know, I know He is right here with me but when it seems like none of my prayers are being answered and things keep getting more and more overwhelming, praying is the last thing I think to do because I'm just thinking about making it through one more day.  I am afraid that I am going to walk away from Him.  I'm afraid that he's mad at me because I'm allowing my 20 year old to date an unbeliever.  I'm afraid that He's mad at me because I don't really like people anymore(!) and I'm afraid that He's mad at me because I just feel sad and overwhelmed so much lately.  I keep going back to what I was told I had to do back them....leave my daughter's father, not talk to my unbelieving family members (most of them are unbelievers),  I'm rambling now because I have so many things I want to say and I can't think of any of them now but the bottom line is that I'm just so tired of trying so hard to be the Christian that I think I have to be that I don't even want to be one anymore.  I just got another text that yet another thing hasn't worked out.  I know He works all things out for the good of those who love God and that He won't give us more than we can handle.  I know all of that and I know one day I will look back on all of this and say "what was the big deal" but it is a big deal right now.  I feel like I'm hanging on by a thread and I don't see the ground that I need to hold me up.  do any of you have any idea what I'm talking about?  edited to add...I don't have a relationship with that SIL any longer and as for my daughter and her relationship, I am fine with it and that makes me feel guilty. she isn't going to marry this person and I know she is probably the only believer in his life so I feel like her good values and morals will make an impact on him so I kind of push her on this subject of seeing him.  we have started going to a new church but I have such a large wall built around me that I don't know if I can let down any of my walls.  this just sucks really, really bad.  I don't want to listen to praise music or read (I do read my bible every day but more of a duty than a pleasure (and I feel guilty about that too)).  I just want to cry all day long and that's not really possible, I have to keep up a good front for my girls because they don't need to see my like this.

This sounds really strange to me.  Believers are not commanded to shun unbelievers and not speak to them.  We are in the world but not of the world.  You can't control who a 20 year old dates, either. 

 

Jesus is NOT MAD at you.  Confusion is not of God;  Peace is of God.  Something is off here, in a big way, but there isn't enough information to even hazard a guess as to what is happening.

 

NO ONE can be that good, not just you.  That's why the Holy Spirit is the Helper, left to keep us going. 

 

You sound like you really need a break and some support. 

 

You didn't marry the man who got you pregnant because of your SIL?  HOw was she your SIL if you didn't marry him?  Is she a previous SIL?  I'm confused. 

[Mrs Mungo]

I just have a minute and I wanted to give you a :grouphug: , and just say one thing--

 

That whole "God doesn't give more than you can handle" is a Load. Of. Crap. It is not in the bible and it is really poor theology.

 

1. God frequently allows us to have more than we can handle.

2. God promises never to leave us, and promises to help.

3. He says in this world, you will have trouble. Then he says he has overcome the world, so take heart. That does not mean circumstances will improve, but it does mean you can choose to get thru those circumstances with God.

4. Your dd has free will.

5. God is not mad at you.

I agree with all of this and would add a few things:

 

6. Bad things happen to good people and/or people who love God. Good things happen to unbelievers and/or bad people. Bad things happening to you in this world have nothing to do with God's love for you or your worth.

 

7. Prosperity gospel is wrong. God is not a vending machine. You don't get everything you want because you pray for it.

 

8. God helps us by supporting us and being our strength to lean on during trying times. Being a Christian doesn't mean there won't be trying times.

[El...]

Something that has helped me recently is to realize that some of my darker times, times I can't find much faith or hopefulness, have a physical component.  Are you ok, yourself?  You sound a little depressed.  Are you super tired, on the edge of illness, or hormonally off?  (No need to answer me!  :grouphug:)  I think taking care of yourself might be the next step.

 

In the past, I've tried working harder, being more grateful, blah, blah, blah to find my way out of a hard time.  In the end, as my circumstances came around and my hormones stabilized, my hope returned.  I think we need to cut ourselves some grace.   We live in bodies; we get tired; we get overloaded.  God knows that, and I think he has more mercy for us than we tend to allow ourselves.

 

May you find the support and rest you need. 

 

 

[Seasider]

I understand how you feel. Well, not exactly, but similarly due to a somewhat similar experience in trying to meet someone else's expectations of what my life as a Christian should look like. Please do not fear that you are a disappointment to God. You are loved!

 

I suggest you just pull out the book of Matthew and do some reading there, on your own. Focus on what Jesus said, what He did, how He spoke to those who lived far father from Him than you think you have.

 

(((many hugs)))

[Susan in TN]

Read it again, Romans 8:38-39

38 For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, 39 nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord

 

And add to verse 38: nor my prayer life or lack of one, nor my Bible reading or lack thereof, nor my desire to be alone, nor my stress, nor the betrayal of my SIL, nor my inability to get my life together, nor my sadness over dd's actions, nor my questioning of past decisions...

[Mommy22alyns]

I think first things first you should consider that you are depressed and  see someone about that.   :grouphug:

 

Completely separate God from your SIL.  You may need some counseling to get over that - I do not have personal experience with spiritual abuse.

 

Sometimes we don't always "feel it."  That doesn't mean God is gone, or mad.  I have had plenty of ups and downs.  I know it's hard, but you really have to cling to Him - yes, read the Bible.  Yes, pray (you can get a book of prayers and recite them if you need to).  Yes, put on that Christian music and sing along to it.

 

Trust me, I completely understand "things not working out."  Sometimes I wonder if ANYTHING we seek will ever work out in our favor.  It seems like everything is wrong or not working, or something awful like that.  But we have to hang on.   :grouphug:

[T'smom]

God calls us his children. That is how much he loves us (something I could not conceive of until had kids of my own) Is there anything that your kids could do that would make you stop loving them? There is nothing you can do that would make God stop loving you. God specifically calls David "a man after my own heart" and David did a lot of awful things- including murder. a lot of people in the bible faced terrible circumstances. I hope you can find a community of believers that will help you embrace this.

[Joanne]

http://www.amazon.com/Subtle-Power-Spiritual-Abuse-Manipulation-ebook/dp/B006K4PPCS/ref=sr_1_1?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1420496821&sr=1-1&keywords=spiritual+abuse

 

 

http://www.amazon.com/Soul-Repair-Rebuilding-Your-Spiritual-ebook/dp/B0047GML78/ref=sr_1_7?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1420496821&sr=1-7&keywords=spiritual+abuse

 

http://www.amazon.com/Soul-Repair-Rebuilding-Your-Spiritual-ebook/dp/B0047GML78/ref=sr_1_7?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1420496821&sr=1-7&keywords=spiritual+abuse

[milovany]

I don't know if what you were involved in at that church was word of faith (prosperity gospel), but if so I empathize with you. It's such a wearying faith -- and the biggest area of loss in my life was with prayer and Bible reading (well, among many other things!).   I prayed to ask for things, and I read the Bible to see what I was going to get out of it.  Now I pray to be in communion with God (I rarely really ask for things anymore -- He knows what I need better than I do, I just ask for His strength to go on and accept what happens to me as His will).  Now I read the Bible because it teaches me about Him, not myself.  I go to church a lot more -- and see Church now as His physical body on the earth and the best place in which I can find healing and wholeness with God.  I've stopped (well, tried to stop!  Am learning to stop . . ) judging others. I don't look at people and think I know what's up with them and their spirituality or their lives.  I have enough on my own plate, enough to work on in myself that I don't have time to look at others.  God loves them and will care for them more than I can.  It's so peaceful.  It's so freeing.  If you have an Orthodox church in your area, I might suggest attending some Vespers (evening prayers) services.  Not even with the idea or thought of converting, but just for peaceful, quiet prayer with others who love and revere God.  Slip in after it starts, slip out before it's not quite over if you don't want to talk with anyone. 

 

May the Lord bless you and keep you. 

[forty-two]

:grouphug:

 

It sounds like you've been bombarded with tons of Law (and from the sound of it, most of it was "law", not actually God's Law, whatever they claimed) and precious little of the Gospel. There's a really good talk available on the Internet - "The Gospel for Those Broken by the Church" - you can watch the video, listen to the podcast, or read the transcript: http://www.1517legacy.com/rrosenbladt/2014/02/the-gospel-for-those-broken-by-the-church/

 

A good book is Broken: 7 "Christian" Rules Every Christian Ought to Break as Often as Possible, by Jonathan Fisk - http://www.amazon.com/Broken-Christian-Rules-Every-Possible/dp/0758631014 - unlike many books that deconstruct bad practices (but never get around to talking about what *is* good and right in contrast to what is wrong), a full half of *each* chapter presents the good news of the Gospel in contrast to the legalism it condemns.

[PeacefulChaos]

God is a God of love.  It's important to remember that.

The two most important things we can do - the ONLY TWO THINGS THAT MATTER, everything else will fall into place - is to LOVE God and LOVE people.  

You are a person.  Just wanted to throw that in there.  

 

Look, I seem to have a propensity for depression.  I'm not sure if it's SADD or if it's just me in my regular state for the majority of my life, but yeah, I have a tendency to take a really fatalistic view of things.  I hear a little bit of me in your post.  I hear a little bit of the way I feel on the darkest day of the year - maybe the details are different, but I think that the heart of it is still the same.  

 

God is not mad at you.  

 

We can't always 'feel' God.  Sometimes we go through times that are dark.  Sometimes there are times when we really feel like he must not even be listening, because where is he?  A prolonged period of that is sometimes referred to as the Dark Night of the Soul.  But that doesn't mean God isn't there.  

 

God is not mad at you.

 

There is no 'allowing' a 20 year old to date someone.   :)  A 20 year old dates who they date.  So don't even worry about that.

 

God is not mad at you.

 

God, being the God of love, is not what your SIL has been selling you.  God loves people.  All the people.  Even the worst possible people to our little human brains.  It only follows, then, that when he tells us to love people, he means everyone.  He means the unsaved and the saved (sometimes the 'saved' are harder to love than the 'unsaved'), every religion, every people group.  

The Pharisees were legalistic.  They had created all these extra laws to be followed in the time between the Prophets and Jesus, because in the absence of the promised Messiah, that's what they chose to do.  Some of the believers ran for the hills and became recluses - others developed a sort of halfway gospel - the Pharisees added laws.  Laws and laws and more laws.  Silly little things that didn't really matter to God or even make sense to man.  But then Jesus, of course, came, and took it back to the only two things that actually matter.  To Love God.  To Love people.

 

God is not mad at you.

 

Relax.  A lot of people are suggesting that you read your Bible.  If you have it on your phone or tablet, YouVersion has a lot of different devotional plans.  I've done several.  Some were better than others, but it's a way to do it that has a set end and a set purpose.  I've got a Worship station on my iTunes radio that I sometimes listen to after I've read, to give me a little bit of time to just be still with God.  I really think being STILL with God makes a big difference.  Sometimes, things will come to your mind - write them down.  Even if it's just your to-do list, write it down so that you can get it out of your head and be still.  Just listen to the music and sit with God.  It doesn't have to be for a long time - it can be for 2 songs, or 4, or whatever you have time for.  Whatever you feel like.

You can also try a palms up/palms down prayer.  When your palms are down, you give everything to God.  Specifically.  Whatever comes to your mind.  'God, I give you the anxiety I'm feeling about SIL.  I give you my grievances with her.  I give you the hurt she has made me feel, and the dismay I am feeling because of the way I feel I was led astray.  I give you these things that are wrong, and trust you to correct any wrong thinking in me.'  (total example, I don't know what it would be exactly!) - just keep doing that until you feel like you've given him all there is to give.  Then you turn palms up and receive from God.  'God, I receive from you peace about SIL.  I receive forgiveness for her.  I receive healing and guidance towards what is right in your Word.'  (again, example!) - then you just stay like that until you feel the time is right.  

 

Also, if you feel like you are very fatalistic in your view of things and suspect depression, don't discount seeing someone about it.  (I say that easily to you, but it isn't necessarily an easy thing to do - I have still never brought myself to do it!)  

 

God is not mad at you.  

[happi duck]

(Hugs)

[cbollin]

adding on that it's ok to get a doctor's help for anything related to depression or body changes at this age.  Some well intentioned believers tried to say to me to just pray more about depression or to go do something, but there is physical aspect and it's ok to go to medical doctor.  sometimes our bodies don't have enough iron, so we get anemic and need something.  well our brains sometimes get low on producing some stuff and it's ok to get meds to help.    I say that because I was nervous about getting stuff like that once upon a time...  one of those spiritual abuse types kept me from getting doctor's help.  then very godly friends told me which meds they take, so then I understood.  

 

and lots of hugs

[Stacia]

:grouphug: :grouphug:

[Saddlemomma]

First of all :grouphug: !

 

DH and I left a church because it was too legalistic.  Once we woke up and our eyes were opened, we realized our mistake and didn't want our youngest DD to grow up filled with the nonsense that was being taught there.  Our eldest left Christianity while in college due to the mixed messages she was getting and while we still attended that church.  I rained down hail fire and brimstone upon her.  She yelled obscenities back at me over the phone.  It got so bad, we had to call the state police because of death threats towards us left on Facebook by her friends.  That's truly how bad it got. 

 

The situation ended up that we didn't speak for a year.  I felt like a failure as a mother.  I couldn't understand where I had gone wrong or what to do about it.  I started to research apologetics, hoping that once DD and I began speaking again, I could reason with her better.  Through that research I discovered Stand to Reason: http://str.org

 

What did I discover? Practically everything I believed about religion was based upon man's erroneous interpretation of God's word.  There is so much of God's word taken out of context by church leaders today that it's just sad.  This results in conflicting understanding, misinterpretations, false promises, and a totally inaccurate view of Christianity.  Then creeps in the legalism -- and we know how Jesus felt about legalism!

 

So with my new-found knowledge and a new-found church, this is what I came to realize:

 

• Never read just a Bible verse.  Read the whole chapter or as much as necessary to understand that verse in context with what is happening in the narrative.
• Don't try to read "special" or "private" revelations into God's word.
• Don't adopt promises that weren't meant for us. 
• We are not followers of men or the "church".  We are supposed to be followers of Jesus Christ and emulate Him.  Our previous Pastor thought we should forsake DD1 and not have contact with her.  Jesus never forsook anyone.  He actively hung out with sinners.  How could I be an example if I refused to have contact?
• Christ doesn't give us what we want -- He gives us what we need.  Sometimes that means going through trials and tribulations to develop our faith, strength, character and to grow as Christians.  We can't grow without growing pains.  However, He stands by us while we go through it---doesn't mean he's going to deliver us from it; but he'll pick us up when we fall and prod us onward.  It's not pleasant and it's painful; but once we're through it we've usually grown in wisdom and understanding.
• Christianity is HARD!  Don't ever let anyone tell you your life will be so easy and happy once you accept Christ.  That is one of the greatest misrepresentations of all.  Christ said, "Take up your cross and follow Me."  Jesus bled on that cross; he died a horrible death upon that cross.  When we take up our cross, we take up suffering for Christ just as He suffered for us.

Contrary to popular thought, Christ didn't promise us a rose garden. He promised us persecution, tribulation, betrayal by loved ones.  However, for those who surmount those tribulations and trials and remain faithful to Him to the end, we are promised Paradise for eternity.

 

How did all this translate with my DD1?  Well, one night, out of the blue, I received a call from her.  She was brisk at first, then tearful.  She missed her mom.  I missed her too.  I said a quick, silent prayer, let out a long breath, and started to lovingly and without recriminations, talk with her.  I told her how much I loved her no matter what she was doing, with whom, or how she was living her life even though I couldn't give her the blessing or approval she was seeking from me. I explained that she was an adult and had to make her own decisions and find her own way, but nothing could take away my love for her.

 

When she asked how I could love her and not approve of her decisions, I asked her how she could love me and yet try to force me to change the person I was.  That's when the light-bulb clicked into the "ON" position for her.  She realized she was trying to force me into being something I wasn't just as she was claiming I was trying to do the same to her.  It was quite the revelation. Now, we talk about once a week. She fills me in on her life, asks for advice, and shares her hopes and dreams.  Now I can be a witness to her through my love and gentle guidance without pushing her away.  I'm trying to emulate Christ -- not the values or dictates of someone else's idea of what is right or wrong.

 

Your DD is an adult and has to make her own choices.  You have no control over it.  All you can do is lover her and be there for her when she needs you. It took me a long time to realize that.  It took me longer still to take a deep breath, let it out, and sincerely pray, "God, you gave her to me for 18 wonderful years.  I did the best I could and now my job is done.  Now she's on her own and in Your hands.  I trust You to do what is necessary to accomplish Your plan. Your will be done.

 

You see, that's the point.  It's not God's plan for your life.  It's your life for God's plan.  There's a bigger picture out there that we can't see.  We are just the ripples in an ocean of time.

 

And for what it's worth...I'm not too crazy about many people in this day and age either.  The world is sinking more and more into a morass of sinfulness. DH and I are hermits for the most part.  We are supposed to be of the world not in the world.  Christ warned we would see this.  And yet, sometimes I feel the greatest compassion for someone I see in a store or on the street.  If I see an elderly person struggling with packages/groceries, I'll offer to help.  You should see the looks I get...like I might mug them or something.  But then, the smile and gratefulness when they realize I'm sincere fills me with warmth and happiness.

 

Unbelieving family?  My whole side of the family is unbelieving.  I'm the only Christian.  My brothers barely speak to me -- the oldest never does.  How do I handle that?  I bake them a huge tin of cookies every year for Christmas. I add homemade jelly, miniature breads, dried hot peppers and whatever other treats I decide to make.  I send out 4 tins every year.  One to my mother, one for each brother, and one to my DD1.  After doing this for the past 5 years, my mom called to tell me my eldest brother asked her for my email.  She said she almost dropped dead of shock.  I love my family.  While some of them may choose to stay away from me, I choose to remind them I'm still here, still thinking about them, and still loving them.  It may be a little thing, but it's what I can do and no one, especially some busy-body at some church or whoever is going to dictate to me how I show the love of Christ.

 

I also struggle with prayer and Bible reading.  It's not that I'm not interested, it's time.  I seem to always find time for other things, but not Bible reading.  It's called selfishness on my part.  It's one of my sins.  I acknowledge that.  I'm a sinful person just like everyone else.  I'm not perfect and never will be.  All I can do is endeavor to improve, and if I fail---try, try again.

 

I guess what I'm trying to convey is that we all struggle to muddle through the best we can in an imperfect world.  We all, at some or several points in our lives, feel as you do.  You are most certainly not alone.  We are all right there with you. Maybe this is God's way of opening your eyes; picking you up; dusting you off; and getting ready to set you down in the right spot to muddle through some more.

 

Don't lose heart.  Slow and steady wins the race.  Take each day at a time.  That's what we all do.

[gardenmom5]

I agree she sounds spiritually abusive. My grandmother was. She does NOT represent God. Distance your self from her, not God. Pour your heart in prayer. God loves you, wants what is best for you, and nothing will change that.

 

BTW. I am also a convert to the Church of Jesus Christmas of latter day Saints, (aka LDS) and we are Christian.

[gardenmom5]

adding on that it's ok to get a doctor's help for anything related to depression or body changes at this age. Some well intentioned believers tried to say to me to just pray more about depression or to go do something, but there is physical aspect and it's ok to go to medical doctor. sometimes our bodies don't have enough iron, so we get anemic and need something. well our brains sometimes get low on producing some stuff and it's ok to get meds to help. I say that because I was nervous about getting stuff like that once upon a time... one of those spiritual abuse types kept me from getting doctor's help. then very godly friends told me which meds they take, so then I understood.

 

and lots of hugs

Yeah and God will heal your crushed leg if you just have enough faith./

We live in an age of incredible medical care. I believe God gave us a brain for a reason and expects us to use it.

[texasmama]

Here this, girlfriend:

 

GOD IS NOT MAD AT YOU.  FULL STOP.

 

Until you believe that, you are spinning your wheels.  I read the book Transforming Grace by Jerry Bridges many years ago, when I was in my late 20's.  It permanently changed my view of God.  Maybe it would help you.  I also like Stasi and John Eldredge's Captivating.

 

(((hugs)))

 

Life is hard enough without believing that God is mad at you and disappointed in you.

[lllll]

:grouphug:

[sunflowerlady]

Hugs to you.

 

You have been given good advice here.

[Ottakee]

Lots of good advice.  See if any churches in your area offer a Stephen's Minister.  They are just someone to come along side you and encourage you.  It is a Christian based ministry but you don't have to go to that church (or any church) to get one.

 

Besides the advice above, I would also consider seeing your doctor.  If you are in the menopause stage that could be a large part of how you feel.  I have a very close friend whose was a pastor's wife and missionary (before her dh took another job), very strong believer, etc. but she still struggled, esp. through the menopause stuff.  She started hormone replacement therapy and within a very short time was back to her old self and felt more like tackling the world.

[Katy]

The Ampified is my favorite version too, but I have found King James/New King James to have a much more positive image of God, especially in the Old Testament.  I'm not one of those who typically says KJV only, but recently my Sunday School class was going through a study of Genesis and I realized KJV has more explanations of motivations and God seems much less angry in it.

[Liz CA]

Just a few things that stood out:

 

1. When we say prayer is not working, we usually mean that things are not unfolding to our liking but God may have different plans. We cannot see very far ahead yet He knows the beginning from the end. Persevere and ask for immediate needs, you can complain too, you can whine because He still loves you and He expects only faith and honesty. It's okay to say "I have no clue where you want me to go and I am not hearing you." Sometimes we walk in the desert for a time until we get to water again.

 

2. Of course you are letting your daughter date whoever because a 20 - or 27 year old generally makes her own decisions. Even if you didn't like it, there is little you could do. You need not feel bad about her choices because they are HER choices. As the mother of a 23 yo, I know that sometimes we wish we could still chart the path for them but they are now adults responsible for their own lives.

 

3. Your SIL sounds a little bit like a SIL I have. A lot of misinformation came from her during a time when I was seeking. I had to sort out the truth from the not-so-truth. While we have now a cordial relationship, there was a time when I could not be around her and mercifully we happened to move out of the area. Over the years we have forgiven each other, we are older, more mature. Depending on the level of toxicity you are experiencing with this SIL, either stay away for a while or trust your own instincts and guidance from God. He can guide you directly; He does not need to go through her.

 

ETA: Just reread your post since it contained a lot of stuff. Listening to music and studying the Bible on your own is fantastic. Not seeing / talking to SIL right now is perfectly fine and healthy. When you want to make the next step, you could look into small groups - many churches have those. Our pastor always says "Relationships happen in small groups, usually not in the sanctuary on Sunday morning."

[OnTheBrink]

I just have a minute and I wanted to give you a :grouphug: , and just say one thing--

 

That whole "God doesn't give more than you can handle" is a Load. Of. Crap. It is not in the bible and it is really poor theology.

 

1.  God frequently allows us to have more than we can handle.

2.  God promises never to leave us, and promises to help.

3. He says in this world, you will have trouble. Then he says he has overcome the world, so take heart. That does not mean circumstances will   improve, but it does mean you can choose to get thru those circumstances with God.

4. Your dd has free will.

5. God is not mad at you.

 

I think I love you.  :001_wub:  I find myself saying that to people a lot. 

 

Journey, one of the hardest things I've had to learn in regard to my faith is that people can not be what I follow or worship. People can come alongside and help, but ultimately, your relationship with God is between you and Him. And, frankly, I'm tired of hearing about how angry God is at us all the time. God so LOVED the world that he gave his only son to die for our sins. It's not God was so mad at us that he threw his hands in the air in frustration and killed his son for us. God LOVES you. And, as your user name says, life and salvation are a journey and everything we experience can be used for our good, even that bad stuff. The fact you realized that this situation with the SIL is bad is a BLESSING. Thank God for opening your eyes to the errors of it and remove yourself from that place and those people. You're going to be ok. God never bails on us.  :grouphug:

[mamajudy]

 

You didn't marry the man who got you pregnant because of your SIL? HOw was she your SIL if you didn't marry him? Is she a previous SIL? I'm confused.

The SIL could be the wife of OP's brother.

[countrygal]

:grouphug:  I'm sorry you are having such a hard time (sounds like an understatement.)

 

Jesus is God's son. God came to earth as a man. He came because He wants you to know that He loves you so much that He was willing to live the life of a human, full of suffering, for you. For everyone. He understands, He's done it. Sometimes it doesn't feel that way, especially when someone you once looked up to lets you down. Jesus didn't come to earth to be with the righteous, to be with kings and 'holy' people. He was with sinners - the people society rejected. The point I'm trying to get at is God loves you for you. You can't let God down. He knows you better than you do! Most Christians get to a point in their lives when they are angry, hurt, mad, confused that they don't know what to do. Not wanting to listen to praise songs is okay for now. God's not mad at you. Keep praying, even if you don't have the words. This story from Luke came to mind:

 

15And as he reclined at table in his house, many tax collectors and sinners were reclining with Jesus and his disciples, for there were many who followed him. 16And the scribes of a the Pharisees, when they saw that he was eating with sinners and tax collectors, said to his disciples, “Why does he eat with tax collectors and sinners?†17And when Jesus heard it, he said to them, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. I came not to call the righteous, but sinners.â€

 

Do you know of someone else that is a strong Christian? Please reach out to them and tell them you a struggling (not just with Christianity, but that you have a lot of bad things going on in life right now.) You need some support. Being alone only makes it worse.

 

 

[HS Mom in NC]

This might get long so bear with me.  I am a 50 something year old single mom of two really great girls.  One is 27 the other 20.  They've honestly never given me a day of trouble and for that I am so thankful and grateful to God.  I became a Christian at the age of 33.  I was pregnant with my youngest and not married.  Her father and I were going to get married though.  until I got saved.  until my over the top (I didn't know it then) born again SIL and her sister got ahold of me.  I thought this SIL was the greatest thing ever and I believed and hung on every word she said.  for 12 years.  In those 12 years I allowed her to be my god.  I didn't know I was doing it.  she was very active in our church almost like the female leader if you will even though she wasn't but everyone liked her and everyone wanted to be around her and I thought I was pretty cool because I was able to be around her.  Well, fast forward to the last few months or so I've come to realize that this SIL is a huge mess and most of what she told me about the Lord was wrong...at least about the Lord that I want to know.

 

You don't need to just blindly believe what someone tells you about God.  He told you about Himself in the Bible.  Focus on what the Bible tells you and use it as your source.

 

You don't get to decide who Jesus is.  Sorry, but if I went around deciding who any of my friends were based on what I wanted them to be as opposed to who they really were, I'd be no friend at all to them. I need to get to know them for who they say they are.  Same with Jesus. He is who He is and none of us get to wish Him any other way. Read the gospels and get to know Him in His own words.

 

 

She showed me a lot of things about her "lord" but I don't want to know that one.  that one is mean and angry and if you don't do the right thing nothing is going to work out.  well in my life today, it seems like nothing is working out

 

I don't think Christians were ever told in the Bible that things would work out.  We were told there would trials and tribulations.  We were told to rejoice in suffering.

 

and I feel myself praying less and less and trying to just survive on my own self and decisions.  I don't really pray anymore because it doesn't seem to work.  I know, I know He is right here with me but when it seems like none of my prayers are being answered and things keep getting more and more overwhelming, praying is the last thing I think to do because I'm just thinking about making it through one more day. 

 

Reading about the martyrs is helpful to me.  Tyndale said (and I'm paraphrasing here) to not pray for smooth sailing on the sea of life.  Without the storms faith is but a presupposition.

 

I am afraid that I am going to walk away from Him.  I'm afraid that he's mad at me because I'm allowing my 20 year old to date an unbeliever.

 

Your 20 year old is an adult.  You can advise her to not date an unbeliever, but you have no grounds to not allow her.  She's an adult living her own spiritual life.  No one can ever live anyone's spiritual life for them.  It's an entirely individual thing. 

 

  I'm afraid that He's mad at me because I don't really like people anymore(!) and I'm afraid that He's mad at me because I just feel sad and overwhelmed so much lately.  I keep going back to what I was told I had to do back them....leave my daughter's father

, not talk to my unbelieving family members (most of them are unbelievers),

 

Why?  Since when did Jesus shun unbelievers?  Who are we going to witness to if not unbelievers whether they're  family members or not? If people actually believe the nonsense some are spouting about not talking to unbelievers, then who will witness to them?  Jesus told us to witness and preach, if not to unbelievers, then who?

 

  I'm rambling now because I have so many things I want to say and I can't think of any of them now but the bottom line is that I'm just so tired of trying so hard to be the Christian that I think I have to be that I don't even want to be one anymore.  I just got another text that yet another thing hasn't worked out.  I know He works all things out for the good of those who love God and that He won't give us more than we can handle. 

 

Nowhere in Scripture doe sit say God won't give us more than we can handle? It's. not. there.  If someone is telling you to do this that and the other to be a Christian, they're wrong.  You don't need to change yourself.  You can't.  You need to ask God to change you and give you His strength and peace to do things.  You need to stop trying to control people and circumstances and trust God with the outcomes.  Stop letting all these people tell you what to do and go to the gospels and read what Jesus had to say about things and do what He said to do the way He said to do it.  You're an adult, you don't need someone to tell you what's written in plain English.  Read it for yourself.  Ask God to help you understand how it specifically applies to you at this time. Sit at Jesus' feet by reading what He said.

 

I know all of that and I know one day I will look back on all of this and say "what was the big deal" but it is a big deal right now.  I feel like I'm hanging on by a thread and I don't see the ground that I need to hold me up.  do any of you have any idea what I'm talking about?  edited to add...I don't have a relationship with that SIL any longer and as for my daughter and her relationship, I am fine with it and that makes me feel guilty. she isn't going to marry this person and I know she is probably the only believer in his life so I feel like her good values and morals will make an impact on him so I kind of push her on this subject of seeing him.

 

No, I think it's incredibly rare that "missionary dating" works out for good.  But, whether it does or not, she's an adult in charge of her own spiritual life.  You don't have any guilt because it doesn't have anything to do with you. She may or may not marry him, but that's her issue to deal with, not yours.

 

 

  we have started going to a new church but I have such a large wall built around me that I don't know if I can let down any of my walls.  this just sucks really, really bad.  I don't want to listen to praise music or read (I do read my bible every day but more of a duty than a pleasure (and I feel guilty about that too)).  I just want to cry all day long and that's not really possible, I have to keep up a good front for my girls because they don't need to see my like this.

 

Based on what I read, I would caution you to be very careful about which church you're going to.  It sounds like you've had some bad spiritual advice in the past.  You need a good solid place that avoids legalism like the plague it is.  You need somewhere that encourages you to read the Bible for yourself and hold yourself and your leadership accountable to it.

 

Also, you're 50.  I think it's a good idea at 40 and 45 and 50 to have a good, solid physical evaluation.  I've had mine at 41 and there were some issues that needed sorting out.  They were making other challenges in my life ever so much harder because of underlying medical issues.  You should take care of yourself.

 

 

 

[gardenmom5]

Journey, on 05 Jan 2015 - 12:42 PM, said:Journey, on 05 Jan 2015 - 12:42 PM, said:

 well in my life today, it seems like nothing is working out and I feel myself praying less and less and trying to just survive on my own self and decisions.  I don't really pray anymore because it doesn't seem to work.  I know, I know He is right here with me but when it seems like none of my prayers are being answered and things keep getting more and more overwhelming, praying is the last thing I think to do because I'm just thinking about making it through one more day.  I am afraid that I am going to walk away from Him.  

 

  I keep going back to what I was told I had to do back them....leave my daughter's father, not talk to my unbelieving family members (most of them are unbelievers), 

 

I'm rambling now because I have so many things I want to say and I can't think of any of them now but the bottom line is that I'm just so tired of trying so hard to be the Christian that I think I have to be that I don't even want to be one anymore.  I just got another text that yet another thing hasn't worked out.  I know He works all things out for the good of those who love God and that He won't give us more than we can handle.  I know all of that and I know one day I will look back on all of this and say "what was the big deal" but it is a big deal right now.  I feel like I'm hanging on by a thread and I don't see the ground that I need to hold me up.  do any of you have any idea what I'm talking about? 

(I do read my bible every day but more of a duty than a pleasure (and I feel guilty about that too)).  I just want to cry all day long and that's not really possible, I have to keep up a good front for my girls because they don't need to see my like this.

now I'm on my computer (I do not like posting from my phone), and can expend a little more effort in writing a response.

 

I've addressed the spiritual abuse in a previous post - but the highlighted is typical grooming/isolation behavior by abusers (of any kind), and cults.  

 

I've learned our idea of what we can handle and God's idea of what we can handle are two different things.  (btdt).  but we can do what we need to if we will fully rely upon him.  easier said than done. but worth the effort to get there.  I'll send you a PM about the underlined.  I've so been there done that.  hanging on by the neck until dead . . .  you think things can't get any worse . . . . . yeah, btdt too. 

 

I also agree if you need help, medical, or other, do so.  it doesn't mean you are weak.  sometimes it takes real strength to reach out and accept help when needed.  

 

I'll send the PM, but just take one day at a time right now.

 

[PollyOR]

Something to consider - perimenopause.

 

I'm taking a break from organized religion at the moment and it is nice to be free of the guilt.  Just a thought.

[Isabella]

I haven't read all the responses, but apart from your spiritual struggles, are you sure you are not just plain depressed?  I'm not trying to minimise the spiritual, but we have to be careful about separating natural/physical issues from spiritual, as they are not the same.  :grouphug: Hugs though, as you seek the help that you need.

[Guest ltrlianall]

I'm sorry I don't have something better and more efficient to say. 

[gardenmom5]

PollyOR, on 05 Jan 2015 - 9:41 PM, said:PollyOR, on 05 Jan 2015 - 9:41 PM, said:

Something to consider - perimenopause.

 

oh my yes, I became an absolute whackodoodle.

 

exercise, good nutrition, 5-htp . . . BIG, HUGE, Difference! (though every time I make a change, my cycle decides it's not done after all . . .  glare!)

[Aiden]

Previous posters have a lot of good advice, so I won't reinvent the will by saying it again. I do, however, want you to know that you are not alone, God does love you, God is not mad at you, and there is hope.

[mom@shiloh]

Journey -- praying for you.  Matthew 11:29  

Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.

[bethben]

I grew up in a church where I learned to think of God as this angry Father only wanting to spew His wrath. I thought Jesus came mostly to save us from His father. Yup- totally wrong. It took more than a few years to rethink that. God won't leave you.

 

I have had hard things happen to me, like most people. the biggest was the birth of my very disabled son, the latest was my husband losing his job. I crashed hard both times. God is still in control. I read a book that really helped me get out of my funk--- "One Thousand Gifts". The big take away from that book for me was thankfulness. Yes, He does work all things out for my good--- some of those I may not see this side of heaven. I've learned to be OK with that.

[ktgrok]

God loves you. That said, you definitely should try to find a different way to be with God. Away from these people. Try a mainstream denomination.....they tend to hold off the crazy because there is accountability outside the local church. A nice United Methodist, or Lutheren ELCA or Presbyterian USA or even a Catholic or Orthodox church. Just for a different way to experience God for a while. If you have a decent size Catholic parish no one will notice you, just go, enjoy, and leave. See if you can feel the spirit moving you somewhere else. And if not, that's ok too. Hugs. 

[texasmama]

Something to consider - perimenopause.

 

I'm taking a break from organized religion at the moment and it is nice to be free of the guilt.  Just a thought.

I took about a six month break at one point a few years back.  My dh continued going and took the children and worried about me a lot, but I just needed to sit alone and be mad at God and have whatever feelings I needed to have.  During the end of this period, I was listening to hymns on youtube and had a pretty profound spiritual experience in which I came to see that while my life had been hard in ways that caused me a great deal of pain, God was not absent.  I kind of found some inspiration and "raised an Ebenezer", an actual stone I dragged into the woods in the back of my property.  I said a prayer.  I told no one until about a year later, when I told dh.

 

I've also spent time sitting in the driveway in the rain and screaming and cursing at God.  I got away with it.  I'm still here.  No punishment came.  God made me, knows me and knew what He was doing and what He would get with me.  I assume at some point He said, "Bring it on!".  I think God appreciates me a lot for my stubborn willfulness.  I think God needs stubborn and willful people.

 

Keep in mind that the only people available to God for any sort of use to Him are imperfect ones.  I've done way worse things in my life than you have, and I feel no guilt.  Let that guilt and shame go, sister!  It is not God's plan for your life.  I don't even know you, and I promise you that is the case.

 

Let God love you.  Be and don't do.

[Halftime Hope]

Everyone's replies have been such a blessing and encouragement to me, and I hope to Journey as well.   Thank you for all your heartfelt posts.  

[Katy]

God loves you. That said, you definitely should try to find a different way to be with God. Away from these people. Try a mainstream denomination.....they tend to hold off the crazy because there is accountability outside the local church. A nice United Methodist, or Lutheren ELCA or Presbyterian USA or even a Catholic or Orthodox church. Just for a different way to experience God for a while. If you have a decent size Catholic parish no one will notice you, just go, enjoy, and leave. See if you can feel the spirit moving you somewhere else. And if not, that's ok too. Hugs. 

 

What Katie said.   Spiritual abuse is less likely to happen in most mainstream denominational churches because they typically require clergy to have a lot more education and they have to report to someone outside the church.  This is not true for all denominations, I know Southern Baptists basically leave things up to the individual church's board.

 

If you spent years in a big nondenominational or independent church you might find those services foreign - they don't typically have altar calls, for example, and some of them are quite liturgical.  Be open to something different.  Those liturgical traditions are taken from Hebrew temple ceremony and all of it is symbolic and meaningful, even if the meanings aren't immediately clear.  And altar calls are new.  Charles Finney created them in the 1800's.  In previous generations you showed your Christian faith publicly not with an altar call, but with a baptism and a changed life.