Is the term 'short bus' offensive in normal conversation?

[Tap]

Simple question...

 

If said in normal conversation, with a normal tone of voice, is the term 'short bus' offensive to you?

 

 

for example:  A mom talking to the babysitter:

 

Johnny's short bus drops him off at the front door of our house, instead of the bus stop down the street. 

 

 

 

 

I grew up with it as a factual term to describe a special needs bus, not a derogatory or offensive one.  I know it can be used as an offensive term,but I usually only hear it used in this way as part of a joke.  I was wondering it is all in the context of what is being said, or if the term itself is considered offensive now.   

 

 

 

 

 

[Joanne]

Yes, always offensive.

 

I've heard some "short bus" jokes that created an involuntary laugh in me, and I feel like an ignorant jerk when that happens.

[Joker]

I've never heard that before and would have no idea what you are talking about.

[maize]

Why would mom not just say "Johnny's bus"? I've never heard the term "short bus" used in a non-derogatory manner.

[Mrs Mungo]

I voted mostly offensive, but the context in the OP isn't something I find offensive, only descriptive.

 

eta: I'm wondering if most people actually read the OP before answering the question.

[Cinder]

I've only heard it used in a derogatory manner.

[Tsuga]

Not even "pretty much always". Just plain offensive. Like using the word "retarded" in anything other than a strictly clinical sense, totally inappropriate.

 

However, I once knew a man who didn't realize that "jewed" was offensive (as in, "I didn't mean to jew you out of it."). My jaw dropped, we had a conversation, he apologized, and that was that. It happens.

[mom2jjka]

Around here there are a lot of rural communities that use the smaller buses if there are not enough kids to fill a larger school bus - and they are often called short buses (but not in a derogatory manner.)

[SeaConquest]

I've never heard that before and would have no idea what you are talking about.

 

Same here.

[Tsuga]

Well... I'm on, so let me explain.

 

In larger school districts, many children with special needs ride a "short bus" to their program. This bus picks them up from places around the district and brings them to the school where they have services. So the "short bus" is associated with children with special needs, particularly developmental disabilities.

 

I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but some jerk noticed this commonality between communities with respect to the special needs population, and made a joke about riding the short bus, and now it's kind of a family of jokes along the lines of yo mama jokes.

 

I won't link to the jokes... I am among the guilty in that I've accidentally laughed at short bus jokes. I always felt guilty. :(

[Tanaqui]

Like all such terms, if it applies to you (like, it's you who rode a short bus as a kid, or it's your kid and you're 99% sure they don't mind you joking about it), you can say it without it being offensive. But if it doesn't, it's best to avoid it.

[Reefgazer]

I voted other.  Everything's offensive; people look for reasons to be offended and get on their high horse over all sorts of nonsense.

[bettyandbob]

OPs example is not how I have heard any parent speak. I believe parents would just say "Johnny's bus" without the modifier short.

 

I have never the phrase except in a derogatory manner.

 

ETA if a term is regularly used in slang in an offensive manner then it is hurtful to the persons to whom the term applies to "in a factual manner". Some people don't believe that. Such people typically are lucky enough that the term would not apply "in a factual manner" to themselves, so actually have no idea what it's like to take such a pounding in language and seem to lack the empathy to imagine the pain it causes.

[carriede]

When referring to it, I say "the handycap bus".

[ThisIsTheDay]

It would not be offensive, because I have never before heard the term and had to read this thread to learn the meaning.

[creekland]

I work in our public high school and have for 15 years now.  We have a Special Needs Bus for kids who need it.  I've never heard the term before this thread - not from adults, not from kids, not in jest, and not as a descriptive.

 

I'm guessing it's regional?

 

I would not be offended, but it can take a lot to get me offended I suppose.  I also would not use the term, partially because no one uses it here, but also because I tend to not make jokes like that.

[kewb]

Offensive, always. Even in elementary school back in the early 70's we flung that around as an insult. Telling someone they should be on the short bus was the same as calling them retarded. No one said short bus to be anything other than derogatory.

[MomtoCandJ]

I don't find it offensive, unless it's used specifically used in a derogatory manner.

I usually said short bus when I described dd1's HeadStart bus (because, well it was) and where I live it can be the HeadStart bus or the bus that picks up the PHYSICALLY challenged kids (the ones used here are lower to the ground and have the wheelchair areas).

[Melinda in VT]

I think it's almost always offensive.

 

However, I used it just the other day when telling my kids about something I saw on FB--a notice that someone had stolen a short bus from a friend's local school district. I don't think that usage was offensive.

[swellmomma]

Around here no one would know it meant a special needs bus because half the kids are picked up on a short bus depending on what route they are on.  I am in a tiny rural town so some routes only need a shorter bus.  My kids know what it means in the sense of a special needs bus and will say to each other in the company of adults, particularly to ds16 if he is really out of sync and weird that day that he is "short bus special" which no one blinks an eye at.  Usually ds uses it as a code to find a better way of coping that day, take a missed dose of meds or whatever.

[DawnM]

It is the SAME as using the "R" word, yes, VERY offensive.

[Dmmetler]

I have a friend who refers to her yellow jeep as her "short bus"-however, she was in self-contained special Ed for a good part of school, so I think it's kind of the same way that the n-word is sometimes used. I've never heard it used by anyone else over the age of 18, and it's definitely derogatory when used by regular Ed students about students in special Ed.

[cjzimmer1]

I've never heard it used in a derogatory sense only to describe the actual physical size of the bus. Around here everyone is mixed together so thoroughly that the buses are assigned by the space needs on the route not the limitations of it's passengers.  We also regularly use the term short bus at church because our church owns 1 short bus and 3 full sized buses so people know which bus to get on.  One of the people who regularly works with picking people up is a special ed teacher and very vocal about correctly people's terminology.  I think if short bus was used in a deragotory sense around here she'd be letting us all know.

[LucyStoner]

Not offensive:

 

"Metro plans to use short buses on a 5 minute loop to shuttle commuters up Beacon Hill to the light rail station."

 

Offensive:

 

Pretty much any time the pair of words is used to joke about or describe the occupants of wheelchair accessible school buses. I've rarely heard it except as a slur and no, I don't think this is a situation where people are looking for something to offend. If you have heard this term for accessible school buses used for disabled students and find it totally peachy keen ok, you may be socially tone deaf. Or doing backflips in an effort to "not be PC".

 

I grew up not seeing much TV. I still heard this used derisively in pop culture. I moved a lot and went to school in several different regions of the country. Everywhere I went people used that term, in not nice ways, for special needs students. My brother has cerebral palsy and wore a leg brace. People were vicious about the short bus picking him up for pull out PT. Vicious. Or he'd be on the regular bus with me (because he was general ed at school) and kids would see his leg brace and tell him he belonged on the short bus. The bullying was so bad that at one point my mother insisted we both be transferred to the school in the next town where the PT was sited and that the district pay for county bus passes for me to take him to school on a general fee based bus, away from any students. It was just too stressful a way to start the day for him.

 

There's a reason kind people got PC language norms started.

[Ellie]

Apparently I live under a rock because I've never heard that term at all. Ever.

[flyingiguana]

Yes, offensive, because you aren't allowed to use vocabulary that I don't know.

 

We've got plenty of those busses around here.  I've just never heard the term.  And I've certainly never heard it used in a derogatory way.  This thread title, therefore, seriously confused me.  And I was imagining all sorts of things "short bus" might be code for. 

 

Most of them had to do with human anatomy.

 

[speedmom4]

Yes, very offensive. I have a special needs child and the words "short bus", "retard", etc. are always offensive. I also don't like it when people jokingly say someone has "brain damage". My son has brain damage and it's not a joke.

 

Elise in NC

[BigMamaBird]

I think in the way Tap originally used it, as a descriptive term for an actual vehicle, isn't offensive.  But I've mostly heard it used as an insult.  I wouldn't fall over in shock if someone used it, but I think it's polite and good manners not to.

[sassenach]

I've only ever heard it used in a derogatory manner.

 

As the mom of a kid who rides the short bus, I just call it a bus.

[Mandylubug]

Well, if the mom is informing you that it will indeed be a short bus and not a normal sized bus dropping off their kid. I suppose, technically it isn't offensive.

 

However, that term is typically offensive as is using the term "window licker"... they are both banned in my house.

[momacacia]

Never heard of it. I'd probably call it a "little bus" and I had no idea they were reserved for special needs students. I would wonder though why a mom would gift it a special descriptive term and not just say "the bus" or "Johnny's bus."

[Joker]

I guess the reason I've never heard the term is that I can't recall living anywhere with those short buses. I grew up in a town with three schools (elementary, middle, and high) and there was only one size bus. Where we live now has buses that do pick up special needs, but they are regular size. We have a large deaf and blind school but they also use a regular school bus.

 

I grew up in the south and dh on the west coast but neither of us have ever heard short bus refer to special needs students.

[Laurie4b]

Simple question...

 

If said in normal conversation, with a normal tone of voice, is the term 'short bus' offensive to you?

 

 

for example:  A mom talking to the babysitter:

 

Johnny's short bus drops him off at the front door of our house, instead of the bus stop down the street. 

 

 

 

 

I grew up with it as a factual term to describe a special needs bus, not a derogatory or offensive one.  I know it can be used as an offensive term,but I usually only hear it used in this way as part of a joke.  I was wondering it is all in the context of what is being said, or if the term itself is considered offensive now.   

 

In your example, why would the word "bus" not be sufficient? Or just that Johnny is dropped off at the front door? The use of the phrase 'short bus" is calling attention to the fact that it is a special needs bus. Why is that necessary? That's why it's offensive.

[kewb]

I had never heard "window licker" and had to google. What an awful thing to say.

[ereks mom]

I've never heard that before and would have no idea what you are talking about.

 

Same here.  I'm 54 years old and I attended public schools for my entire education, and I taught in public schools for several years at grade levels ranging from 5-12, and I have never heard the term before reading this thread today. 

 

I guess the real question is whether the person who referred to the bus as "the short bus" knows the term is derogatory or if she is clueless like me.  But I do wonder why she differentiated between the "short bus" and the "regular bus" when asking the question.  I would probably simply say, "Johnny's bus..."

[wapiti]

If it was used descriptively, then it would not be offensive.  However, I have never heard it used descriptively.  One would simply say "bus."

 

I only heard the term in the last few years and only in a derogatory manner.  I have lived in locations with such buses all my life, in several parts of the country.

 

I don't get worked up about much in the world of language.  Rather than offensive, maybe I'd call it very rude or crude.  It's one of those things that says more about the joker than the joke-ee.

[ebrindam]

I'm not sure I understand why this is the second somewhat derogatory post you've made re: special education in just a short period of time. 

[beaners]

I can only imagine a few unusual scenarios where the size of a bus would be an important part of a conversation about where the child is dropped off. Unless there is a question about whether the bus will be able to use a narrow turnaround or something, yes, pretty much always offensive. When used in a joke or to describe a person, yes, always always always offensive.

 

By the way, not all buses equipped with lifts for special needs are "short." The bus that picked my kids up before we pulled them from the school was close to the size of a regular bus but had a lift.

[Murmer]

Yes offensive!! There are other non offensive ways to talk about the smaller bus...my dd calls it the small bus...my friend whose son rides it calls it the wheelchair bus.  Handicap bus/Special needs bus all way way better than short bus...mostly because it is a joke and it doesn't take a lot of googling to hear a short bus joke or offensive comment.

[Liz CA]

Must be somewhat regional. Never heard of it.

[Mergath]

Same here.  I'm 54 years old and I attended public schools for my entire education, and I taught in public schools for several years at grade levels ranging from 5-12, and I have never heard the term before reading this thread today. 

 

I guess the real question is whether the person who referred to the bus as "the short bus" knows the term is derogatory or if she is clueless like me.  But I do wonder why she differentiated between the "short bus" and the "regular bus" when asking the question.  I would probably simply say, "Johnny's bus..."

 

I think it would make sense if there were several buses stopping, and the mom needed to differentiate which one is her son's.  I've heard it used that way, when I worked in a group home for boys with autism and they were explaining which bus dropped off which boy.  Two of the buses were the longer buses, and one was a shorter bus, so in that situation it made sense to say something like, "So-and-so will be dropped of from the short bus."

 

In any usage other than a physical description of a bus, however, it's offensive.

[Word Nerd]

Why would mom not just say "Johnny's bus"? I've never heard the term "short bus" used in a non-derogatory manner.

This. I suppose it's theoretically possible to say that in a non-derogatory way, but I don't know why the person would mention the bus length at all if not to draw attention to the fact it's a short bus and not a regular bus.

[PrincessMommy]

I put down "It depends"... because I have a wheelchair bound friend who uses the short bus and only refers to it as such.  Actually, her FB page is filled with her "Short Bus hell..." experiences.  But, I personally wouldn't use it except if I happened to ask her something like, 'Did you have to take the short bus to work today?" ... of course, I don't ever see myself asking her that question.  But anyway, I think it depends on the context and who is using the term.

 

 

[Word Nerd]

Retard/retarded has definitions that are not derogatory and have nothing to do with people. Short bus as a descriptive term does as well, so I don't see how anyone can legitimately claim it is *always* offensive.

We rode to and from school on the short bus for several years when I was in grade school because our rural bus route had the fewest students. Our small-town school system only had one bus that was shorter than the standard size, and they also had one long bus. Those are factual statements. The point of making people aware of potentially offensive terms should be to encourage people to think about their word choices and be careful about their language--not to make certain words and phrases absolutely verboten, regardless of intent or usage.

 

 

[justasque]

I voted other.  Everything's offensive; people look for reasons to be offended and get on their high horse over all sorts of nonsense.

As teachers, especially teachers with a classical focus, isn't it part of our job to be aware of words - what they mean, how they can be used, their historical context and associations, and what effect they may have on others? Is it not wise to know when our words may bring up painful memories in others to whom we intend only kindness? Does it not mark us as ignorant (in the sense of uneducated) if we speak in a way that most educated people see as clueless at best? Won't it limit our children's opportunities if they are raised to be unaware of how their words may reflect on their character?

 

OF COURSE it is possible to go overboard. We can't always keep up with the current usage of every last word and phrase; the perceived pressure to do so can seem stressful to some folks, so much so that they don't want to deal with it at all. And the "rules" are often fuzzy. This discussion is a perfect example - we've discussed regional differences, age differences, and context differences. Yet most of us will come away from the thread knowing more about the phrase under discussion, and being more aware of how others may use the phrase or react upon hearing it. We may adjust our usage of the phrase in the future, based on what we've learned in this thread. We are interested, because we are interested in words, and because we want to be kind to others.

 

I'm surprised to hear that someone whose job it is to teach language to children would throw away the whole topic as "people looking for reasons to be offended" and "people getting on their high horse over nonsense". How is that kind to disabled children and their parents? The very people in our communities who should be embraced, loved, and treated with an extra dose of kindness?

 

The point of making people aware of potentially offensive terms should be to encourage people to think about their word choices and be careful about their language--not to make certain words and phrases absolutely verboten, regardless of intent or usage.

Agreed.

[LostSurprise]

It is possible to use 'short bus' descriptively, especially when a parent is trying to describe how a child is coming home to another caregiver. As the mother of a special needs child with developmental delays, I have no problem with that. It sounds like she wants to be sure her son is cared for by being very specific about where and when and what kind of transport he will be on. I would be similarly specific, maybe even overly specific, if I was in that situation. You can't take any chances with a special needs child. You are overly explanatory, repetitive, and then you check up on everything. That's just part of the life. 

 

Not every area uses shorter buses for special needs. Our area is small. It has 3 long buses, a short bus, and a van. The short bus is not used for special needs. It's used for the preschool kids. The special needs kids ride on the long buses with everyone else or in the van (depending on where they're going). If someone says, "Ellen is coming home on the short bus," they just mean Ellen is not coming home in the van or on the long bus. Sometimes one vehicle is switched with another and everyone tries to make sure communication stays open. No one wants a child left home alone or a parent worried. 

 

 

The jokes about short buses are sad, a disappointing and callous part of our society. Humor has an edge of pain to it. Sometimes we like that edge, especially when it doesn't effect us. Often we understand very little of the pain caused by humor until we or someone we love are hurt by it. 

[Mimm]

for example:  A mom talking to the babysitter:

 

Johnny's short bus drops him off at the front door of our house, instead of the bus stop down the street. 

 

 

I voted before reading this example, so it's probably the one time it's not actually offensive, but I would be surprised at the mother of a special needs kid using the term short bus. They would probably always just say, "Johnny's bus". Short bus jokes are too prevalent and most moms are probably pretty sensitive to that.

 

I voted mostly offensive, but the context in the OP isn't something I find offensive, only descriptive.

 

eta: I'm wondering if most people actually read the OP before answering the question.

 

Yep. I voted before reading. ;)

[MomtoCandJ]

With dd1, I did have to say short bus because there was 3 other buses (the long ones) that use the same stop with in about 10 minutes of each other. We live near the border of 3 districts

[catz]

I've heard it in describing a person, and yes, I do think that use is always offensive ("Suzy sure rides the short bus").  In describing an ACTUAL bus?  Mmmm ... no, but I'd find it a weird use and haven't heard it used that way in context. 

 

"Short buses" were used for more remote areas when I was growing up and had nothing to do specifically for special ed, although that may have been an occasional use.  They were used for transporting smaller groups of kids.  And I don't remember calling them that.  They were just buses or the smaller buses (or bus 12 - all buses had a unique number). 

[SharonM]

It is totally used as a put down in schools among the students.  In  your example it was descriptive that he is dropped off by the short bus, but in any other situation I would rank it with calling someone retarded.  It unfortunately has that connotation.

In our sd they are SPED buses.