Would you leave your 3 children in the car?

[Word Nerd]

That was always called junior high though, I thought.

Here too.

[gaillardia]

Yes, with the German Shepherd.

Several of us have mentioned leaving the car running with middle school aged kids. I found that kind of surprising. If a person is drunk or under the influence and the keys are in the ignition, car running or not, person faces charges. Yes, I know the kids are most likely not drunk, but sometimes the law enforcement people can be very picky. I'm saying that if there is that kind of law about drinking and the car running or keys in ignition, then wouldn't it be likely that there is a similar law regarding underage/unlicensed people in a running car?

I don't know if leaving the car running with unlicensed, underage persons in the car is illegal or not.

I'm sorry if this is hijacking the thread but sort of goes with the topic.

 

[SKL]

I probably would not leave my kids in a running car now, but maybe when they are close to driving age I would.

 

If the car is not hot when we arrive at the store, it's not going to get hot enough to kill anyone in less than 10 minutes.  Of course if it did get that hot, my kids would know to roll down the windows or get out of the car.

 

There was one case in 2013 of a 14yo dying in a hot car.  The 14yo and her older brother drove to school, and the older brother's classes started 1 hour earlier than the sister's.  So the sister was going to wait in the car and go in later.  Unfortunately the car doors could not be unlocked from the inside.  Now that is some serious faulty design.  But you know it was someone's fear / "safety" concerns that led to such a design in the first place.

 

It is extremely rare for a kid over 3 to die in a hot car, and all the cases I've seen with older kids (other than the 14yo above) involved the kids wandering off, climbing into the car, and either being unable to exit or falling asleep.  When parents discover their kid missing, the last thing they think is that maybe he crawled into the car.  They think he's been snatched or got lost.  Nobody thinks to look in the car until it's been so long that the kid is dead.

 

I would never make light of these very real tragedies, but it doesn't help to misstate or inflate the real risks.

[NASDAQ]

If a ten-year-old is too hot can't he or she just . . . go outside? I don't live in a climate that gets hot but I kind of assumed that ten-year-olds would be able to leave the car if they felt uncomfortable.

 

A ten-year-old can be left home alone here. And it seems weird to suggest that my child should be under my complete supervision at all times _in middle school_. You're in middle school. You can't participate in your own temperature regulation? Do middle schoolers actually die from overheating in cars? Really? I have never heard of this. Cognitively normal middle schoolers?

 

They'd probably be in more danger walking across the parking lot than sitting in the car for fifteen minutes.

[Camelfeet]

There is no middle school at all where I grew up.  Only elementary 1-8 and highschool.  Regardless....

 

Yes, in that situation I would leave them. 

[MistyMountain]

At that age I would have no problem leaving them in the car. They can get out if it gets too hot and there are old enough to be alone for a few minutes.

[Arcadia]

If the car is parked in front of the library book drop, kids do typically stay in the car. Our book drop parking has a 5min rule anyway. If anyway else, I wouldn't because some parking areas have panhandlers and they go car to car.

I wouldn't think it is weird or wrong to leave three kids and a dog in the car for Home Depot or Lowe's though. I'll assume someone is buying bulky stuff like lumber and don't wish to have all the kids troop in and out.

[kitten18]

FWIW on the middle school/jr high grade ranges - what I was taught in my ed classes is that "middle school" is not about the grade ranges (they could be 4-7, 5-8, 6-8, etc). "Middle school" is a concept and middle schools share certain characteristics like having students in teams, etc, etc.

 

 

FTR - I would leave my kids in the car at that age AND I would probably worry about busybodies.

[lewelma]

These kids are 11? Um, if it is hot, wouldn't they get OUT of the car?

 

I have absolutely left 11 year old kids in the car, and if they get tired of waiting, they can jolly well come find me in the store. In fact, they have been known to choose to walk the mile home and text me on the way.

 

Ruth in NZ

[Carrie12345]

Sadly, I make many decisions based on busy bodies.
A few weeks ago, I parked nice and close to a big box store's outdoor shed display and jumped out to check a sale price.  It took practically no time at all, but just enough to find an older couple with their hands to my window, talking to my 7 and 3yos, then giving me an earful. No more of that!

 

Not long after, I read this. http://www.salon.com/2014/06/03/the_day_i_left_my_son_in_the_car/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=socialflow

 

I'm so glad I didn't get a visit!

[Matryoshka]

Sadly, I make many decisions based on busy bodies.

A few weeks ago, I parked nice and close to a big box store's outdoor shed display and jumped out to check a sale price.  It took practically no time at all, but just enough to find an older couple with their hands to my window, talking to my 7 and 3yos, then giving me an earful. No more of that!

 

Y'know, what is with these older people who are now so worried about this?  Aren't they from that generation not at all long ago that left their kids in the car practically every time they went in the store?  "Sure, we did it daily, but let's call the cops you you".  :glare:

[1GirlTwinBoys]

At that age I would have no problem leaving them in the car. They can get out if it gets too hot and there are old enough to be alone for a few minutes.

 

 

Yeah, kind of how I thought too.  I'm sure it was just that the elderly person had a hard time judging their ages, especially since my windows are tinted.  The kids said she probably heard them talking when she parked next to the van.  Also, the windows were cracked probably 3" on each side and it wasn't that hot this day and overcast.

 

My DD is only 1 year older than my twins, and I can remember the days of having to drag the three of them in and out of carseats for EVERYTHING.  Those days were tough! :mellow:

[KungFuPanda]

Sadly, I make many decisions based on busy bodies.

A few weeks ago, I parked nice and close to a big box store's outdoor shed display and jumped out to check a sale price.  It took practically no time at all, but just enough to find an older couple with their hands to my window, talking to my 7 and 3yos, then giving me an earful. No more of that!

 

Not long after, I read this. http://www.salon.com/2014/06/03/the_day_i_left_my_son_in_the_car/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=socialflow

 

I'm so glad I didn't get a visit!

That would be illegal in my state, but the OPs kids were considerably older, so it IS completely different IMHO.

[Ravin]

Sounds reasonable to me. I'd probably have let them roll down the windows most of the way and by preference parked in any shade that might be available. I might leave the keys with them and take the electronic door opener with me (eliminating the possibility that they might lock us out of the car if they get out), to let them listen to the radio. I would NOT leave the car running with the A/C on, that's asking for the car to overheat (but then I drive an old car).

 

 

 

[AimeeM]

I still don't understand how anyone could think 11 isn't middle school.  11 yos are in 6th grade.  I know middle school has different ages in some places, but I've never heard of anywhere where 6th isn't middle school.  10 is more borderline, but I don't object to the designation.

 

Not that it matters.  My boys are 9 and I leave them.

 

In some areas (including the one I grew up in), the schools are divided like this:

Lower elementary, grades k - 4; upper elementary/intermediate school, grades 5 - 6; junior high/middle school, grades 7-8; high school, grades 9 - 12. They did this about 5 years ago.

[ktgrok]

No, I'd never leave my dog in the van during warm months.  The other day we had to go an hour out of town for an appt and took him with us.  I left the dog in the van with the a/c on and car locked while I went inside for my appt:  I could see the car from the window and went outside to check on him once just to make sure things were running and ok.  I'd never leave my kids in the car with it running though.  

 

 

I leave the car running with my kids in it all the time. Now, my oldest is 14, but I've been doing it since he was at least 13, if not late 12. The littles are buckled in their carseats, doors are locked, teen has a cell phone to call me if he needs me. I only do this at say, the dry cleaners, or the drug store or 7-11, but I see no harm. 

[Luanne]

I don't know what the law here is about children being left alone in a car, I'd have to look it up.  I do know, however, that it is illegal to leave your dog in the car.  They do give tickets to people who do that here.

[kitten18]

I don't know what the law here is about children being left alone in a car, I'd have to look it up. I do know, however, that it is illegal to leave your dog in the car. They do give tickets to people who do that here.

You can't leave a dog in the car ever?

 

That would be very sad for our dog. He goes to activities with us every afternoon in the winter (afternoon temps are 60-75 degrees).

[Word Nerd]

Regardless of the exact divisions in different areas, the OP was not wrong or in any way misleading when she said her kids are "middle school age where I live." 

 

[gaillardia]

Sadly, I make many decisions based on busy bodies.

A few weeks ago, I parked nice and close to a big box store's outdoor shed display and jumped out to check a sale price.  It took practically no time at all, but just enough to find an older couple with their hands to my window, talking to my 7 and 3yos, then giving me an earful. No more of that!

 

Not long after, I read this. http://www.salon.com/2014/06/03/the_day_i_left_my_son_in_the_car/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=socialflow

 

I'm so glad I didn't get a visit!

 

I think this has been posted in the thread previously, but what a well-written article.

Since I haven't gotten my kids to self-defense class, I probably am still somewhat neurotic about their safety, just my daughters now though, who are young teens and 19.

If you didn't read the article, please do. I like the part about the writer from NY and her 10 year old riding the subway alone.

[AimeeM]

Regardless of the exact divisions in different areas, the OP was not wrong or in any way misleading when she said her kids are "middle school age where I live." 

 

Oh not at all. Every where that I know of, personally, other than what I mentioned above, does the "standard" division, wherein 6-8 is "middle school". Other than private schools, I mean.

[jhschool]

I have left DS alone for years (definitely since before middle school).  Only for

about 10 minutes.  (Popping in a store or coffeeshop to grab something.)

Car is on, with either A/C if it's summer or heat if it's winter, with all the windows

closed, with the keys in his hand so he can lock all the doors.  Also the recirculate

button is on so he doesn't get the car exhaust.

 

[Susan C.]

I once had my 2 standing outside of a restroom inside a store.  I had to go.  Well it was a matter of a couple of minutes before a manager came over and made a big stink about it.  They weren't little either.  Definitely old enough to stand there quietly for a moment.  

 

Nothing came of it, but geesh....can't a mother pee without suspicion?!

Heehee then take them in with you, that will get even more looks!! Or at least threaten. Works every time!

 

And... I left mine that age (together) car locked, with keys (they were trustworthy, to turn on car for AC) and told them to lay on the horn if anyone bothered them! That was before we had a cell, and for short trips only.

[Reefgazer]

Eh, it varies for every kid, every city, every circumstance.  But I don't think I would leave mine for over 3 minutes or so (there the same age as yours), but we live in a more urban area with all the urban issues.

[vonfirmath]

:iagree:

I don't understand the concern about leaving kids that age alone in the car.  If it gets too hot, they can get out of the car.  I was not aware that states have laws about leaving kids alone in the car.  When I was growing up, all the kids in the neighborhood walked to school and back without parents from K on.  If it is against the law to leave an 8 year old alone in the car, is it also against the law for an 8 year old to walk to school without adult supervision?

 

 

At my son's school (PK-2nd grade), no student leaves without being released to an adult/older sibling that they have been okay'd to release to. No student is allowed to walk home on their own.

 

HOWEVER! The older siblings they are released to are 3rd-5th grade. So the ages in the OP are in the "responsible sibling" category.

 

[chocolatechip]

Ahh, "helpful" ladies. :glare:

I wouldn't worry about leaving the kids, according to your description.

 

Slightly different scenario my family experienced:

 

Once when we were young, my mother left two of my younger siblings and myself in the car while she went to use the ATM at the bank (maybe 15-20ft. away?) A lady came up to her and told her that if she didn't get back into the car and go through the drive through instead she would call the police and have us taken away from her for leaving us in the car (I think it was during the summer.) 

 

Mom was scared and didn't know what the police would/could do, so she complied. Later, though, she called the police department and asked what they would have done. The policeman laughed and said the lady was WAY overreacting, they wouldn't have done anything in that situation.

 

Sounds like your lady wasn't really threatening, but maybe if you'd like reassurance that no undesireable "police" things could happen you could call the department and just ask?

[vonfirmath]

In my state it is illegal for kids under 14 to be left in a car alone, so I leave them at home where it is legal to leave them at any age. It seems silly to me too, but common sense died a while back, so we have laws that treat teens like young children. We have many busy bodies in our community, and I have no interest in getting fined or arrested.

 

ETA: Sorry, double checked, and at least one child must be 14 and no one can stay with them under the age of 7. Yay, my dd can now watch my older kids while the baby and I run into the store. Thanks for the topic, so now they can run errands with me after lessons. They will be thrilled lol.

 

That sounds like a different interpretation of Texas' law than I have? Are you in Texas?

"In Texas, you can be charged with a criminal offense if you intentionally or knowingly leave a child in a motor vehicle (car, truck, van or other enclosed vehicle) for more than five minutes. The statute requires that you have knowledge that the child is less than seven years of age, and that you know that there is no one in the car over the age of 14 who can watch the child. See Texas Penal Code, Title 5, Chapter 22, Section 10."

 

IE you can't leave a child under the age of 7 in the car alone for over 5 minutes UNLESS There is someone over the age of 14 also there watching over them. Kids between 8 and 13 can be left in the car without the older supervision but can not supervise younger children.

 

This seems fairly reasonable to me.

 

 

 

[Laurie4b]

Sadly, I make many decisions based on busy bodies.

A few weeks ago, I parked nice and close to a big box store's outdoor shed display and jumped out to check a sale price.  It took practically no time at all, but just enough to find an older couple with their hands to my window, talking to my 7 and 3yos, then giving me an earful. No more of that!

 

Not long after, I read this. http://www.salon.com/2014/06/03/the_day_i_left_my_son_in_the_car/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=socialflow

 

I'm so glad I didn't get a visit!

 

Skenazy boils it down to this. “There’s been this huge cultural shift. We now live in a society where most people believe a child can not be out of your sight for one second, where people think children need constant, total adult supervision. This shift is not rooted in fact. It’s not rooted in any true change. It’s imaginary. It’s rooted in irrational fear.â€

 

Thanks for this link. This a quote from the link above. Yes, it is crazy that we have to take overly concerned strangers into account in our parenting decisions, rather than simply making a decision about what is reasonable in a given situation. I'm glad that mine are now old enough that I don't have this constant imaginary 3rd person looking over my shoulder all the time.

[lynn]

Yes at 11years or older or a younger child with a child over16. it's usually only for 15 minutes

[Catwoman]

I still don't understand how anyone could think 11 isn't middle school. 11 yos are in 6th grade. I know middle school has different ages in some places, but I've never heard of anywhere where 6th isn't middle school. 10 is more borderline, but I don't object to the designation.

 

Not that it matters. My boys are 9 and I leave them.

Where we live, middle school is 7th and 8th grade. Everything before that is considered to be part of elementary school, and grades 9-12 are high school. I know that stuff varies from one place to another, though.

[mom2samlibby]

I'd have no issue at all with leaving kids those ages in the car together. To me, the temperature would have been perfect for that. 70's is great weather - not too hot, not too cold. I'm amazed by the number of posters that said the kids would get hot in a car with a temp of high 70's.

[umsami]

I've done it, but I leave the car and a/c running.  DS1 or DS2 locks the doors.  Not an issue.  I have GI issues and sometimes have to run in to use a bathroom very quickly.  I cannot wait to get kids out. 

[Dmmetler]

My 9 yr old has declared herself to be a middle schooler next year-after all, SOME of the middle schools in the area are 5th-8th ;).

 

I suppose I need to change my .sig....

 

 

[Scarlett]

I leave my DD in the car for short store trips. I had to do it once when she hurt her foot and couldn't walk well. I wasn't going to drag her into the store. However, I left the keys with her so she could control the windows and have a panic button, plus she has a cell phone if needed. In temperatures that high it can get much hotter in the car than we may expect. However I would expect my kids to be smart enough to open a door or something if they were getting overheated. I also know that sometimes a quick trip into the store may not be as quick as expected, so if I wasn't willing to leave them for a longer time, I am not willing to leave them a short time..

This reminds me of the time I left ds in the car when he was about 11. I came back out and he was mad at me because he was hot! I asked him why he didn't open the door! He got a deer in the headlight look. Smh.

 

But to answer the question yes I would leave my middle school aged kids in the car and I have done so many times. Not in all areas, but most areas I would be in are safe. A little old lady being concerned isn't enough of a problem for me to alter the way I do things.

[KungFuPanda]

I read the salon article. It seems like an elaborate justification for leaving a 4-year-old alone in a car. THAT was a bad decision. She KNEW it was a bad decision, calculated the odds of getting caught, and did it anyway. Some creeper videoed her child in that time and set off a chain of events.

 

The OP took no such risk. Her children were not alone OR preschoolers?

[SKL]

I agree there is a difference between a preschooler and a middle-schooler, BUT some states' lawmakers apparently do not.  I believe the age limit is 14 or 15 or even possibly 18 in some states.  (Thankfully not my state.)  I think some lawmakers, cops, and busybodies need to meet up on a mental health retreat somewhere.

[mom2scouts]

My 11 year old usually comes into the store with me, but I wouldn't think much about leaving a child that age for a short period of time.  In fact, one mother I know almost always leaves her 11 year old son in the car while she sits in the dance studio waiting room for hours.  He knows he can come in anytime he needs something.  OTOH, there's a mother who parks her car in the fire zone every week, leaves the car running, and leaves an infant, toddler, and other small child sitting in the car while she comes in to get other children.  We often have very cold or very hot weather here too.  She is often inside and out of sight of the vehicle for quite a long time and most of us are quite annoyed with her, but we've never reported her.  We usually just keep an eye on the children.  Of course, when she brings the children in with her, the baby is always screaming and she's always running around looking for a lost toddler, so that may color our perception of her parenting skills.

[Matryoshka]

I agree there is a difference between a preschooler and a middle-schooler, BUT some states' lawmakers apparently do not.  I believe the age limit is 14 or 15 or even possibly 18 in some states.  (Thankfully not my state.)  I think some lawmakers, cops, and busybodies need to meet up on a mental health retreat somewhere.

 

:confused1:  18?  How the heck are the 16-18yos driving cars if they're not supposed to be alone in them? :confused1:   I guess the cops should be pulling over all teen drivers and arresting their parents for allowing them to get their driver's licenses.

 

I also haven't seen an actual law that says kids have to even be 14.  The only one anyone's quoted is the kid has to be 8+ to be alone, and 14 to watch kids younger than 8.  Is there really a state where the law says a kid has to be 14+ to sit for a few minutes in a car alone?

 

[Murphy101]

Oh good grief. Yes. *walks away muttering and grumbling about the dangers of living in pansy nation of busy-bodies..... *

[JoJosMom]

OP:  I see no problem with what you did.

 

Weather dependent, I leave my DD alone in the locked car.  She hates to shop and loves to read-perfect solution IMO.  (If she had our GSD with her, I'd probably be willing to leave her alone in front of the jail at release time. ;) )

[gardenmom5]

This is another thread where I know opinions will vary greatly, but I would be interested to know what you think.

 

The other day, I needed to run in Home Depot and was only in there about 7-8 minutes.  My 3 children are middle school age where I live.  They are extremely responsible and mature for their ages.  VERY safe area.   The temp was high 70's and the windows were all cracked.  

if they're too young to have the windows down all. the. way. in high 70's temps, they are too young to be left in the car.  it doesn't take long, and this age often doesn't realize they're becoming overheated - or what to do.  how responsible they are isn't the issue, it's experience.

while you may have expected it to be fast, it could easily have been much longer 'cause things happen.

 

[BlessedMom]

No, I would not be comfortable leaving my children in the car.

[foxbridgeacademy]

Yep, I would. Especially with the Dog.  If I weren't going to be very long.  If I thought it would take awhile then I'd either leave car running (hate doing this) or make them come in.  I would have reminded my children that they are not allowed to talk to strangers even "nice older lady ones", especially to answer nosy questions.

[fairfarmhand]

yup. And I did it today.

 

Mine would rather sit in the car with a book anyway.

[Word Nerd]

it doesn't take long, and this age often doesn't realize they're becoming overheated - or what to do.  

 

According to whom?

[Joanne]

No, I would not.

 

Not at Home Depot. I *might* do a run into a storefront where I am able to see and connect by voice.

 

The climate in our culture around the issue is the first reason. The second is that I do think tibia inappropriate to leave kids in a car in a parking lot.

 

 

If I were in the Home Depot parking lot and saw your kids, I would not stop or be concerned: but it is not a choice I would make.

 

I would, however, consider leaving some kids that age home alone. At 12, I would consider dropping them at McDonalds nearby while I shopped.

[rmtzc2009]

I leave my 8 & 10 year old ds in the car if I'll be in/out in 5 minutes. My 8 yr old is the same size as my 10 yr old and looks old for his age. I would not leave my ds5 with my older boys in the car. In the ops case I see no problem.