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Opinions on baby names chosen in immigrant families?


How should an immigrant family choose a baby name?  

  1. 1. How should an immigrant family choose a baby name?

    • If they live in the US, they should choose an American name
      0
    • If they are not originally from the US, it's fine to choose a name native to their country
      63
    • An "ethnic" name is fine, as long as it is fairly easy to pronouce (and sounds OK in English ;) )
      28
    • An ethnic name is fine, but only with an American middle name
      0
    • Other (please elaborate)
      118


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You're taking it way too far.

 

 

 

:iagree:and I also think everyone knows exactly what kind of names the OP is talking about. Mary, Kathy, James, Thomas... maybe not American per se, but traditional.

 

ETA: And before anyone jumps in with "but whose tradition?", I mean conventional and you know that. ;)

Edited by Mejane
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I chose Other.

 

I don't care what someone names their kid, as long as they don't jump all over me if I can't spell or pronounce it.:glare: If it were a family member or close friend and they asked for my opinion I'd give it, but otherwise, I don't care.

 

Yeah, this is my issue with any baby name, not just ethnic ones. If you want to name your child Chayeniquefizzlex, fine by me, but expect the child to spend his/her WHOLE LIFE explaining the spelling, pronunciation and what it means. I don't mean every child has to be a Mary or Jason, but I think it's unkind to burden a child with a name they'll have to spell out or pronounce to people all the time, or to burden them with a name with negative associations (like Adolf).

 

If someone asked me what I thought of their baby's name, I'd tell them. Otherwise, it's their thang; they can do what they wanna do.

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Their baby, their choice, IMO. Though I do think if you choose a name that is unusual in a particular culture, for whatever reason, you should be prepared to explain pronunciation, spelling, etc. And I think it's probably good to stay away from things that sound off-color or the like in a particular culture as well.

 

But if you're an immigrant to the US, honor your heritage by choosing an ethnic name, honor your new country by choosing a traditionally American name, whatever you want!

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I don't mean every child has to be a Mary or Jason, but I think it's unkind to burden a child with a name they'll have to spell out or pronounce to people all the time

 

I have a name like that. My children were named very common, traditional names so they would not have to go through what I did and still do.

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I don't feel there is a de facto ethnic group in the US.

It's not about ethnicity, it's about language. There is a de facto LANGUAGE in the US (okay, maybe languageS in some areas now :lol:), used for official purposes and schooling, and that language has certain conventions. Choosing a name that greatly challenges those is just inconvenient for all involved, particularly for the name-bearer.

 

We have a similar thing in Italy, with a rather phonetic language which does not "accept" well many types of names (how would I spell May? Mei, maybe? But then it sounds Chinese, and vowels would still be messed up). Some languages with cases do not "accept" well undeclineable names. Every language does not "accept" well some names which happen to have certain "connotations" in the broad culture or may mean something else (the Chitti example somebody brought up is a good one), or certain sounds which do not fit it.

 

I actually seriously considered "anglicizing" the last kid (i.e. spelling the names the American way, rather than the Italian way), particularly in light of the fact she is a dual citizen, but being that we did not long-term stay in the US, we found it unnecessary. But I probably would have "adjusted" the name to the language of the place where we were to stay long-term if the baby was born there. I believe many people do the same, pretty much, as they find it an okay compromise. The concern is the linguistic one more than the "ethnic" one.

Edited by Ester Maria
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As far as I'm concerned, the only correct definition of "American name" is "name belonging to an American person." As for choosing a name that is easily pronounceable by native English speakers, I can certainly see why it might make a kid's life easier, although it's perhaps a bit less interesting for the rest of us. :001_smile:

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Yeah, this is my issue with any baby name, not just ethnic ones. If you want to name your child Chayeniquefizzlex, fine by me, but expect the child to spend his/her WHOLE LIFE explaining the spelling, pronunciation and what it means. I don't mean every child has to be a Mary or Jason, but I think it's unkind to burden a child with a name they'll have to spell out or pronounce to people all the time, or to burden them with a name with negative associations (like Adolf).

 

If someone asked me what I thought of their baby's name, I'd tell them. Otherwise, it's their thang; they can do what they wanna do.

 

:lol: I do this already! *I* am the one with the odd name. I'm okay with it ;)

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no rules! Parents can choose any name they like and others should learn to pronounce it!

 

There was an American Idol contestant a few years ago with a beautiful name (Chikezie). His teachers wouldn't bother learning to pronounce it correctly so he was always called by the mispronunciation. When his parents were interviewed and said his name it was so beautiful! It bugged me!

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OK, I haven't read through all the responses so I don't know if I could just slap an "I agree" somewhere and be done.

 

I don't think it matter where you are from, you can name your baby whatever you want. If you choose an American name, fine. If you choose a foreign name, fine. If your family has lived in the US for 10 generations but you want to name your baby something from ancient Hebrew, fine. If you are the person to move here from overseas and you want to choose an all-American name like Joe Smoe, that's fine too. :001_smile:

 

Now that being said, some names will be get looks, comments, rudeness, etc. But you are allowed to name your baby whatever you choose.

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They don't HAVE to do anything, but for the sake of the children, it's a good idea to make sure the name doesn't have any unfortunate pronunciations/associations in English. Vietnamese names seem especially prone to this.

 

:iagree: I love ethnic names, but I do think that a family who has made a home in the United States should at least make sure the child's name is "acceptable" in English. The same way (most...) English-speaking parents do. Nothing that sounds like a curse word, a derogative word, a word with negative connotations, etc.

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It's not about ethnicity, it's about language. There is a de facto LANGUAGE in the US (okay, maybe languageS in some areas now :lol:), used for official purposes and schooling, and that language has certain conventions. Choosing a name that greatly challenges those is just inconvenient for all involved, particularly for the name-bearer.

 

 

You are correct. It's about language; it's practically a battle zone against other languages. As someone who has had one of my ethnic languages under attack in the past to the point of being a nearly dead language, it may be all the more important to me that we retain what little we can and names are one of these ways (especially when you consider that that language is native to this land, unlike the conquering language). This is a land of immigrants where people have brought their cultures with them (English, German, Swiss, Spanish, etc)...it just seems that, when this is made an issue, it's the "lighter" cultures that have an issue with "darker" cultures. It's like there is a forgetfulness that at one time everyone attacked the Irish, or the Germans, or whatnot. Also, people have forgotten that the hispanics were here before many of the more recent European immigrants (Irish/German) and Spanish has been spoken here for centuries. In fact, if you are in California, Spanish was common there before English. Yet people many times act as though Spanish is the "intruding" language! Honestly, here in the US...heavens, even in North and Latin America as a whole...language is a more complicated issue than in certain other areas of the world. For many immigrants (or Natives), it's a way to maintain their identity and not completely lose their language.

 

(reminds me of a bumper sticker I saw yesterday...*Irritated by immigrants? So were the Natives.*)

Edited by mommaduck
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Is this even a real question? Seriously, I do not care what other people name their children. It's not a concern for me; it's not even on my radar. If you are born and bred American and want to go with a foreign name, more power to you. If you are foreign-born and want to go with a foreign name, great. The great American melting pot and all of that.

 

As far as I'm concerned, the only correct definition of "American name" is "name belonging to an American person."

 

I couldn't agree with you more.

Edited by Pretty in Pink
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We are that family, and I am getting a bit irritated with the number of people commenting on our kids' names. Especially since I was born in the US and have an ethnic name myself - we (as did my parents) made a very conscious effort not to choose names that are cumbersome, really out of this world (in a bad way) sound funny, are impossible to pronounce/spell, or sound like curse words in English....

 

Yesterday my coworker asked what we planned to name the baby on the way. I told her. She asked to write it down. Then she wrinkled her nose and said "well, I guess he'll just have to get used to it and live with it" and threw the piece of paper in the trash. :glare:

 

I've gotten similar comments on my own name, as well as the names of my kiddos. I was starting to wonder if it's me, or if I'm just dealing with people who are comfortable only in their familiar little world....

 

 

I

 

I am so sorry you are dealing with arrogant and rude people. I believe it is not my business what you name your child. The name should come from the desire you and your dh have for that child. I recently watched an really good film on this, the Namesake. I am totally unfamiliar with Indian culture, but it reminded me of the thought we put in our son's name.

 

My dh has an Irish name (we are American with Irish heritage). He constantly has to spell it. My maiden name is English, I still had to spell it for people. IMO the name you give should be special to your family. Many people with common American names have to spell theirs anyway.

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I chose "other" people can name their kid whatever they want regardless of where they are from.

 

Would Cochise, Sacajawea or Sequoiah count as "easy" to pronounce?

 

Names are very significant and spiritual in many cultures.

 

I cannot believe how close minded and rude some people are.

 

I am sorry you are having this experience. It isn't ok.

Edited by Sis
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I think you should choose whatever name you like. Just as you may like it, others may dislike it. Oh well. I heard a lot about one of my twins' names but I liked it so I didn't worry about it. I have heard many names that I thought, "WOW I would NEVER name my kid that!" So I didn't lol. I don't hold someone's name against them though :)

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I think I'd have chosen the anglo version of ds2's name if we'd known he'd grow up in the US instead of Venezuela. Oddly, ds1 and dh's very, very Spanish, no anglo version names never get mispronounced or mangled, but Andres throws people for a total loop. OTOH, I know a guy named Anders and no one ever mispronounces that. Luckily ds2 always goes by Andy and that suits him very well.

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I was starting to wonder if it's me, or if I'm just dealing with people who are comfortable only in their familiar little world....

 

 

 

 

It is definitely not you. :)

 

Since my younger son has been playing violin in a youth orchestra I have had the opportunity to meet a number of families who have lived in the US for only 8 or 10 years. Quite often, in very heavy accents, they introduce themselves as, "Mary, and this is my husband John." :001_huh:

I would love to know their given names.

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Within reason, :iagree: (Just thinking of some of the 'What Were They Thinking?' name threads I've read on the board.) :D

 

:iagree: I did TRY to consider what my child's feelings on their name would be. I was hoping they would appreciate any eccentricities after learning the reason why the name was chosen. I found that not to be the case SO FAR, but my children are not grown yet. Maybe in time? It's just something to consider.

 

My eldest has the most original of the names and she self-shortened it finally (although I still call her by her full name) and does not readily tell anyone her full name. I pray that with age it will not bother her so much.

 

I am certain it could be different when you are new to the country though and choose an ethnic name.

 

~Laurie

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If a family moves to the US from their native country, what are your thoughts as far as naming their baby (born in the US)?

 

I'm sorry you are getting comments on your chosen name. You'd surely get comments no matter what your choice, even Mary or Jason. Like many people I know, you might decide to not share the name until after the baby is born.

 

It's the parents' business what to name their child. It is not up for debate among other family, friends, or acquaintances. Unless asked specifically by the parent, it's no one else's business what name you choose.

 

:grouphug:

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It is a "measure" to adjust linguistically first and foremost, and in every place, if not an official language, there is a de facto language, the language of documents, the language of education. An attempt to make your life easier rather than sweat the unusual spelling you have to explain each time does not mean "betraying" your culture,

I disagree that it's only about a different culture. Names represent other things besides merely one's ethnic origins.

 

I have a name that is very easy to spell and is in English. Yet, in childhood, when nearly everyone's name was Jennifer, I got an enormous amount of grief -- mostly from adults -- about my name. I, on the other hand, actually like my name! And I've noticed that now that I'm an adult, no one thinks my name is weird anymore, and many more people have a larger range of names. I think it's great.

 

I think people who want to impose themselves on others because they are lazy and/or uncomfortable with others who are not JUST LIKE THEM are boring and need to expand themselves. Everyone does not need the same plain Jane name!

 

To repeat myself, When did "being American" start to mean that someone doesn't get to contribute to what being American means? When did it become a process of only receiving culture, and not participating in it??

Just an adjustment from a linguistic point of view, and many times a compromise of the kind is perfectly possible, especially when it comes to more common, international names,
Sure, it can be possible, but why is it necessary? Much less preferable?

 

or names which can be "translated" to what sounds like a name in the new culture.
So....Do you really go by "Esther," "Mary," or what? What if I decided I'd rather call you "Jane," to show that I don't think of you as being "Eyetalian" or that I don't "mind" that you're Jewish?
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IMO, it isn't any of my business or concern for what parents name their children within reason. If the name is inappropriate (swear words, really off the wall names that just doesn't seem appropriate at all no matter where they are from) then that should be avoided.

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You are correct. It's about language; it's practically a battle zone against other languages. As someone who has had one of my ethnic languages under attack in the past to the point of being a nearly dead language, it may be all the more important to me that we retain what little we can and names are one of these ways (especially when you consider that that language is native to this land, unlike the conquering language). This is a land of immigrants where people have brought their cultures with them (English, German, Swiss, Spanish, etc)...it just seems that, when this is made an issue, it's the "lighter" cultures that have an issue with "darker" cultures. It's like there is a forgetfulness that at one time everyone attacked the Irish, or the Germans, or whatnot. Also, people have forgotten that the hispanics were here before many of the more recent European immigrants (Irish/German) and Spanish has been spoken here for centuries. In fact, if you are in California, Spanish was common there before English. Yet people many times act as though Spanish is the "intruding" language! Honestly, here in the US...heavens, even in North and Latin America as a whole...language is a more complicated issue than in certain other areas of the world. For many immigrants (or Natives), it's a way to maintain their identity and not completely lose their language.

 

(reminds me of a bumper sticker I saw yesterday...*Irritated by immigrants? So were the Natives.*)

:grouphug:

 

I hear your concern. I am not sure, though, how much naming a child in accordance with the tradition helps if the language, as a whole, is in the danger of being lost... names, without that link to the whole of the language, often lose significance in the first place, as it is a definite step towards loss / assimilation.

Maybe I view things through a very specific prism of Jewish experience - as you know, Jews have always pretty much assimilated linguistically... to a point. There was some conservatism regarding boys' names (much less so regarding girls'), but it was often easy to "translate" the name to the dominant language or make it more palpable, or use two names, or... something, which would at the same time respect the tacit "norm" of the host language, but make parents happy knowing it also has a link to their heritage. I can see how it can be much more difficult with some other languages, though (Hebrew, while not European, is still a part of that "Western canon" of names and associations... Chinese names would have a harder time, for example).

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Well I better change mine and many, many women here should change theirs as we are all immigrants. The whole nation is . Thus your query is more likely geared to non european immigrants. I find the position that one would even deign to think about what other families name their offspring presumptious at best and something else entirely at worst. Not knowing you I will assume it is merely the former and not the latter but the question is in itself historically naive. Or based on a lack of historical knowledge regarding the foundations of this nation. If any person questions what another parent names their child based on the fact that it is "ethnic" they have a problem not the parent of the child. Yuck.

Edited by elizabeth
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I voted other.

 

Not trying to split hairs, but what is an "American" name anymore anyway?

 

I realize you meant more traditional and less exotic than names of recent immigrants, but they are all from somewhere else originally (unless you name the baby something in some Native American language).

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I think people who want to impose themselves on others because they are lazy and/or uncomfortable with others who are not JUST LIKE THEM are boring and need to expand themselves. Everyone does not need the same plain Jane name!

I actually find incredible diversity amongst "traditionally English" names - I could probably give you over a hundred of female names only off the top of my head, that are distinctly English (as in, acceptable and known in the English language), yet so diverse and stemming from so diverse "canons" (part of them Biblical, part Greco-Roman, part old English, etc.). What they have in common, however, is that all are well-acceptable within the language, without "problematic meanings" (the Chitti case).

 

If I name my children Judith, Emily, Eve, Lucy, Sarah and Philomena, and for boys Andrew, I have successfully remained within the English norm without compromising anything... and I have my diversity too. On the other hand, I can insist on Giuditta, not Judith, and on Filomena, not Philomena (the difference which is basically not even heard in speech), on Andrea, not Andrew, but why would I do that, if the signifance is the same, if I can still call my kids in my native language at home, and if poor boy will be teased for "girls' name", and Giuditta will always be "visually marked" in any English text in which her name appears? "Giu" is not acceptable in the English spelling conventions, it should be "ju" at least (Giulia / Julia, etc.), even if I insisted on a different ending.

 

There is nothing wrong with calling a child any of those names, but if I intend to stay in America long-term, see Italy every leap year for vacation, send kids to American schools and actively live the culture of the English language, then is it not slightly preferable - not a must, but slightly preferable - to name my children within that norm, adapt their names to the dominant linguistic norm, or at least make them "easily spellable" and fitting the language, making sure there are no potentially problematic meanings? And mind you, my examples are GOOD, because they come from "Western culture", are part of the same "cultural canon" only in slightly altered forms, so currently in America the mismatch could never be as big as the mismatch between some other cultures and the English language, where problems usually occur.

To repeat myself, When did "being American" start to mean that someone doesn't get to contribute to what being American means? When did it become a process of only receiving culture, and not participating in it??

I have no say in what "being American" means as I do not consider myself to be deserving of a voice in that particular debate. :tongue_smilie:

However, I would venture to say that, at this point, for now, for maybe a limited while yet, but still for a while, it includes the culture of the English language (whether as official or de facto language), a certain literary heritage that comes with it, a set of cultural associations that stem from it, etc. So, I see nothing problematic in saying that, maybe, in some instances, it is slightly preferred (note that it is not "a must") to assimilate into that norm, in cases in which it can be done to easen Chitti's life - beacuse it WILL easen his life - or to say that PH is good enough and there is no need to insist on F since it is the same name anyway. Stuff like that. I am not talking about "choosing a name from the list of acceptable ones", but about making sure the name is fitting the language used, particularly if it is not a widespread exception that the language has already "got used to".

So....Do you really go by "Esther," "Mary," or what? What if I decided I'd rather call you "Jane," to show that I don't think of you as being "Eyetalian" or that I don't "mind" that you're Jewish?

It is not about "minding" anything, if indeed my username reflects my real name (I will not say yes and I will not say no, so I am putting this hypothetically) my name is a part of the same shared heritage, only expressed in a different language belonging to that heritage, and I have zero issues with you "anglicizing" it. Non-rolled R and TH might hurt my ears, but that is my problem entirely: it is me who is "on your linguistic territory" and needs to adapt and swallow it, as the form I use is still not well-accepted and wildly recognized in the English language. And that is fine. English is generally very flexible, much more so than many other languages, but it is fine if my particular name does not really "pass".

 

Just like my kids get their names anglicized and hebraized, and francicized (is that a word? :lol:), and they even introduce themselves by the "altered" name sometimes. No problem for anyone involved, really. We are not so emotionally attached to those minimal variations when other languages are spoken. We would also consider a change if we lived long-term in a place where one of our kids' names meant, for example, "trash" (and I know of such a case). We would still call kids in our language at home in that name, but there would be no reason to burden the kid in the official context.

 

By the way, Ester is not a proper "pure" Hebrew name anyway, it is actually a Persian one :tongue_smilie:, her Hebrew name was Hadassah. And it was totally fine that in Persia she went by the Persian name given to her. And Baruch Spinoza wrote his name as Benedict Spinoza as well. There are numerous such cases. I simply do not see a big deal here when names are easily translatable (stemming from the same source, only varying little from language to language), or in refraining from the most problematic options regarding additional meanings in the language (Chitti), and from the craziest spelling which is inconsistent or hard to grasp intuitively without having to ask for the person to spell it out (you know, sort of May written as Maieigh). That is all. I am not saying to anyone how to name their child, just stating my general preferences considering some practical concerns that arise. I see no reason why suggesting that a small adaptation at times is a good idea is "wrong", or saying that there is a potentially problematic dimension with some names and some spellings.

 

Legally, everybody has a right to name their children as they wish, in most countries, and that is fine.

But is it always wise to insist on a name that phonetically or spelling-wise or associations-wise does not fit the language? I am not sure. It does not take away anyone's right to do so, but I am not sure whether it is, on the long run, a wise option.

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To each their own. that's why I voted "other".

We have personally chosen names for our children that can be pronounced and written both in the US and in our home country. Other people from cultures that are linguistically more different may chose names that are hard to pronounce - so often the kids go by nicknames.

I don't think I need to judge how other people name their kids.

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Fine to choose a name traditional to their country of origin or one that is similar in both languages.

 

But if a name is unusual in the US, they need to be easy going when people unfamiliar with the name don't pronounce it or spell it correctly.

 

My "thoughts" are that it isn't anyone else's business what names a family chooses for their children.

 

Since I'm married to an immigrant from another country and we've named our daughter a name traditional/common to his country of origin that is not easy to pronounce or spell correctly for English speakers, I have to agree with these comments.

 

I am very easy going regarding pronunciation and spelling. I always introduce my daughter with a quick explanation of her name and it's origin. If they are interested I will explain it's meaning. I knew when I named her that I was dooming her in the US. In Turkey, she's just another little girl named "Lifewater" (except in Turkish, of course).

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Ester Maria, I do see what you are saying, I just don't agree that everyone should have to agree to that limited mold. (btw, as with some Greeks, many Jews, and others, I have several names I go by...a birth name, a legal name, a chrismated name, a couple of nicknames, a nickname in Tsalagi, what my children call me in several different languages, etc...I grew up with a bigot though that legally changed my name because I had a "black person's name". Went through speech therapy (not that it was a bad thing, but the reasoning was), because I spoke "like a black person" (southern accent and some geechee). This person made my mother break contact with my father's side of the family and even hid part of my ethnicity from ME! (then cut me off when I found out...heaven forbid I find out that I'm not entirely "white", not like I hadn't already felt that as a child anyhow). So I guess I have a natural kick (like a mule) against this entire idea of "this is America; speak English" type of thinking (and this "you're in America; name your kid an 'American' name" falls right into that as far as I'm concerned).

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Question on an option in the poll: What is "an American name"?

When I was a kid, I read a book of baby names. Maybe it was a weird thing to do, but I thought the origins of the names were so interesting. The only name that was listed as "American" origin was Dixie.

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I voted other.

 

Not trying to split hairs, but what is an "American" name anymore anyway?

 

I realize you meant more traditional and less exotic than names of recent immigrants, but they are all from somewhere else originally (unless you name the baby something in some Native American language).

This is exactly what I was thinking.

At the same time, I certainly don't mean to be insensitive or rude, but if you pronounce the name and it's not very understandable, then you write the name and it's still difficult for people to get a grip on, I'd consider any one of a zillion other names. I'm sure my dc will have lots of things to spend their time on other than trying to correct other people's butchering of their name. Lots of pretty names out there....;)

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