Loneliness epidemic

[mommyoffive]

America has a loneliness epidemic. Here are 6 steps to address it : NPR

Do you see this in your world?  What are you doing in your life to go against this trend?

[kbutton]

Yes, I see it. Doing something about it is darn near impossible with my family’s particular constraints. We’re hoping that we can make connections at our new church, but their pace and ours is clearly at odds. We’re just not available right now to do things outside of Sunday AM, and I feel like people are rapidly concluding we’re uninterested.

As bad as I feel it’s been for us in recent years, I feel like parenting our kids through high school and early adulthood is only going to pull us farther and farther from any community.

There is a financial cost to being in community with people at my son’s school. Ditto for DH’s coworkers. Church is as already described. I picked up a seasonal job, and it’s making me so tired it will take months to recover, and I despair that I’ll be able to work to cover college costs.

We don’t fit here and never have. 

[JustEm]

I haven't really seen it in my world but we have always had really strong family bonds so even when I go through periods of not having strong friendships and feeling connected with friends, I still have my family connections.

 

[fairfarmhand]

19 minutes ago, kbutton said:

Yes, I see it. Doing something about it is darn near impossible with my family’s particular constraints. We’re hoping that we can make connections at our new church, but their pace and ours is clearly at odds. We’re just not available right now to do things outside of Sunday AM, and I feel like people are rapidly concluding we’re uninterested.

As bad as I feel it’s been for us in recent years, I feel like parenting our kids through high school and early adulthood is only going to pull us farther and farther from any community.

There is a financial cost to being in community with people at my son’s school. Ditto for DH’s coworkers. Church is as already described. I picked up a seasonal job, and it’s making me so tired it will take months to recover, and I despair that I’ll be able to work to cover college costs.

We don’t fit here and never have. 

Yeah I read that article but one thing I didn’t see addressed is that with money being tight for so many families there isn’t enough time or energy to pursue those connections when you’re racing from work to home and then to your second job. 
many people are lonely because they’re working their butts off to just scrape by.

[Pawz4me]

46 minutes ago, mommyoffive said:

What are you doing in your life to go against this trend?

Nothing. 

I had to do one of those social determinants of health questionnaires for a medical appointment earlier this year. It said I'm moderately socially isolated. I don't feel like it. I'm an introvert and often get more social interaction than I want, even if most of it is with DH and DS and chit chatting with neighbors occasionally. So it makes me think a panel of extroverts came up with the questionnaire. 😉 In the future I may regret not trying harder to be more social. With DH's health it's likely I'll be a widow sooner rather than later, and DS won't always live here. But right now I feel perfectly happy with my moderately isolated life and I don't have the desire or energy to work on building a wider social circle.

[Heartstrings]

I see it but I don’t really experience it.  I actively work against it, which I’ve learned how to do from moving a few times.  I “fake it til you make it” a lot.   I invite people out or over even though it’s out of my comfort zone.  I volunteer to do uncomfortable things to be in a position to make connections.  I’m an introvert but I know I have to people.  

[Indigo Blue]

Do you think the new culture of tighter boundaries, of “cutting out anyone from my life who doesn’t deserve my time”, and many cutting off all family is a factor in this? This, along with people working so hard to get by, could be a perfect storm brewing for isolation? People seem more unwilling to put themselves out there. 
 

I agree with having boundaries. It just seems there may be a downside to people having their boundaries. Everyone ends up more to themselves. Could this be playing a part?

I get it. You have to have boundaries.
 

But I’m introverted and don’t personally feel any negative effect of isolation. I’ve been hurt too many times, so being alone a lot makes me much happier than being “out there” and getting hurt. 
 

We used to do so much in the community. Now I just want to do the things I want to do….and fully enjoy them. 
 

 

 

[ScoutTN]

I do see it. I address it by reaching out and trying to make friends and connections. I am an extrovert and this is not hard for me. I cultivate friendships and try to be a good listener, a good friend. I am in a church and have several volunteer commitments in my community. I try to know my neighbors, my kids’ friends and their families, whomever God puts into my path. 

I don’t think government and public policy is the key to progress, though. Not bad things to do, programs can make space and opportunity for people to connect, but cannot do that relational work for them. People have to come and be open to taking a risk. 

[Ausmumof3]

When you run a society based on age-segregation and working people for maximum profit, it’s kind of inevitable? 
 

I don’t have the energy for socialising.

[kbutton]

44 minutes ago, Heartstrings said:

I see it but I don’t really experience it.  I actively work against it, which I’ve learned how to do from moving a few times.  I “fake it til you make it” a lot.   I invite people out or over even though it’s out of my comfort zone.  I volunteer to do uncomfortable things to be in a position to make connections.  I’m an introvert but I know I have to people.  

Perhaps moving a lot is the solution. When we do those things it mostly bites us in the @ss. We stay in whatever sub-community we’re in long enough to learn over and over how little we matter to it and to people. When we can no lo no we tolerate the dysfunction in that community, and it’s clear any change will be rearranging the deck chairs, people inevitably choose the community.

Sometimes we find out others have left after us, but we don’t tend to know about it to reconnect with just a few exceptions.

Once in a while, someone who stays does so for personal reasons and can tolerate that we didn’t stay, but mostly the stayers don’t like the reminder that there were good, valid reasons to leave that they are not addressing.

8 years seems to be the line for the dysfunction to hit the fan, and it takes about 6 years for us to feel like more than just tolerated strangers. Doesn’t seem worth the effort anymore.

[Emba]

I don’t feel lonely personally, though I have in the past. Working outside of the home helps me. I’m not super close with any of my coworkers but I enjoy their company, for the most part.  I have church, and people in close to there. We go to a music jam once a week and play music. I’m an introvert. I need close relationships, but not many of them.

I do see this as a huge problem for older people.  Even in a nursing home, literally surrounded by humans every day, people get terribly lonely because most of those people are either paid carers, some of whom care very little, actually, or there are cognitive impediments that make it difficult to connect with people.  Pre-Covid I often visited people from church who were in the nursing home, and was struck how few friends visited, just family, and that sometimes rarely.  Some of those people died before Covid, some during, but I don’t have anyone to visit now.

[fairfarmhand]

37 minutes ago, Indigo Blue said:

Do you think the new culture of tighter boundaries, of “cutting out anyone from my life who doesn’t deserve my time”, and many cutting off all family is a factor in this? This, along with people working so hard to get by, could be a perfect storm brewing for isolation? People seem more unwilling to put themselves out there. 
 

I agree with having boundaries. It just seems there may be a downside to people having their boundaries. Everyone ends up more to themselves. Could this be playing a part?

I get it. You have to have boundaries.
 

But I’m introverted and don’t personally feel any negative effect of isolation. I’ve been hurt too many times, so being alone a lot makes me much happier than being “out there” and getting hurt. 
 

We used to do so much in the community. Now I just want to do the things I want to do….and fully enjoy them. 
 

 

 

Boundaries are fine. But many people are not willing to share spaces with those who are the *others* 

this is an unhealthy use of boundaries.

he’s a Democrat/Republican? Guess he’s not welcome on the bowling team.

she’s pro/anti LGBTQ? Humph. Can’t welcome her into the quilters club!

they are pro-life/pro-choice? There’s no way I can play cards with them next week. 
 

the polarization over so many issues is awful. Folks won’t talk to or have relationships with people who don’t see eye to eye on stuff. This mindset is so isolating.

 

[wintermom]

Not the US here, but in northern climates, I see isolation fluctuates by season. I never see neighbours in the winter anymore. We used to chat while shoveling snow, but now they all have plowing services. We see them outdoors again in the spring, summer and fall. We don't see the children much outdoors as in my youth. Too many organized activities to play in the front or backyard as much. This probably varies by location, but in general, kids are involved in more organized activities than outdoor free-range play.

People aren't walking to local destinations as much either, where they'd meet people in their neighbourhood along with way and at the destination. Motor vehicles isolate everyone into a little box, where you can sit and rage about other drivers.

Regarding family connections, this seems very individual - familes move apart geographically, and the distances are enormous compared to what was typical 100 years ago. Other connections, such as religious, work, social activities, etc. seems varied. 

People seem to be increasing their virtual connections with others, and these connections are not usually long conversations on the phone or long letter writing. They're more likely to be short texts or emails. Youth may be doing a better job with more in-depth virtual connections if they chat while playing online games and activities. 

-------------------------------------------------------

Personally, I've been working to keep in-person connections with friends on a regular basis, and virtual connections with family and friends far away. We'll share photos or video/audio chats via WhatsApp. I play doubles tennis often, which involves interacting with 3 other people. It's been much more fun than running by myself, which was my go-to physical activity before tennis. I also walk the dogs with dh daily, so we're getting a double bonus of outdoor time and social time with each other as well as the other people walking their dogs at the dog park. 

[Melissa Louise]

I'm not doing anything about it; I'm living it.

Single older womanhood isn't fun for me.

But....

Generally there is a reason why many people are lonely, and it's to do with who they are.

I include myself in this - I'm pretty damaged (and that's not my fault, just my responsibility to ameliorate) but the damage doesn't make it easy to go out and remake a life.

There's a reason I'm not out there helping my loneliness by helping others who are  lonely, and it's because often they are just as difficult to build relationship with. Probably much worse. For me, I can do friendship, at least. I am not unrelentingly lonely.

It's just part of human life.

It goes along with a society that prioritizes the individual. Would I give up my loneliness to be part of a more communal society, with those attendant difficulties? No. Freedom means a lot. Besides, people suffer great loneliness in the midst of family or other social life.

 

 

 

[Heartstrings]

38 minutes ago, kbutton said:

We stay in whatever sub-community we’re in long enough to learn over and over how little we matter to it and to people. When we can no lo no we tolerate the dysfunction in that community, and it’s clear any change will be rearranging the deck chairs, people inevitably choose the community.

I think the trick is to hold the community loosely.  I use the community to meet people, then I build relationships with those people on an individual basis.  So I’m in a homeschool community, and I do things for the community, I volunteer to do things.  But I’m looking for people that I especially click with and inviting those one or two people out, then over to my house, then out to go thrifting.   That way if the community dissolves, or whatever, there’s no choice to make because the friendship has moved outside of the community.   
 

Im also not doing this with churches. It’s homeschool groups, Facebook groups, book clubs, soccer teams, casual community Bible studies, places where no one really cares if you stop coming.  Churches have a whole dynamic that I don’t understand.  

[SKL]

When I think about the future, I am always thinking of ways I plan to get out and engage with the world outside my house - physically, socially, and   otherwise.

Church involvement has long been a recognized factor in human health and happiness.  I don't believe everything that is taught in churches, but I do consider it important to have a "church family" (or comparable group), especially as our other important relationships fall away.

I look for senior-friendly amenities in our community.  Para-transports, library and museum programs, adult park programs / walkable paths, Silver Sneakers at the rec center, community service opportunities geared toward older people, and so on.

My family is pretty close, but I don't know how long each person is going to live, so I'm not counting my chickens.  The younger adult generation (nieces, nephews) are not close to me at all.  I have some hope for my younger nieces, but time will tell.  As for friends, I've lost most of my friends due to their deaths or various life changes.  I do still have some who are long distance, and my two housemates, but again, nobody knows how long they'll live.  I'm enough younger and healthier that it's quite possible I'll be the last woman standing for some years.  I hope my kids will visit me.

I'm an introvert and don't fear living alone at all.  I do kind of fear being immobile, blind, deaf, etc., and unable to access nature, arts, and other beautiful things.

[kbutton]

48 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

I'm not doing anything about it; I'm living it.

Single older womanhood isn't fun for me.

But....

Generally there is a reason why many people are lonely, and it's to do with who they are.

I include myself in this - I'm pretty damaged (and that's not my fault, just my responsibility to ameliorate) but the damage doesn't make it easy to go out and remake a life.

There's a reason I'm not out there helping my loneliness by helping others who are  lonely, and it's because often they are just as difficult to build relationship with. Probably much worse. For me, I can do friendship, at least. I am not unrelentingly lonely.

It's just part of human life.

It goes along with a society that prioritizes the individual. Would I give up my loneliness to be part of a more communal society, with those attendant difficulties? No. Freedom means a lot. Besides, people suffer great loneliness in the midst of family or other social life.

This really resonates with me.

25 minutes ago, Heartstrings said:

I think the trick is to hold the community loosely.  I use the community to meet people, then I build relationships with those people on an individual basis.  So I’m in a homeschool community, and I do things for the community, I volunteer to do things.  But I’m looking for people that I especially click with and inviting those one or two people out, then over to my house, then out to go thrifting.   That way if the community dissolves, or whatever, there’s no choice to make because the friendship has moved outside of the community.   
 

Im also not doing this with churches. It’s homeschool groups, Facebook groups, book clubs, soccer teams, casual community Bible studies, places where no one really cares if you stop coming.  Churches have a whole dynamic that I don’t understand.  

Yeah, that doesn't really work here. Myriad reasons why, including that my kids are twice exceptional, and my DH has a schedule that has not allowed me freedom to do much outside the house. My kids have had issues that have not allowed us to pursue sports. Our extracurriculars were either too far away to connect with people (gifted enrichment where making connections was one of the goals, and I took on a leadership role that netted me a couple of casual FB friends) or involved people who knew each other from a Venn diagram of activities where we didn't overlap with anything at all, and they overlapped with all of it. Music for instance...music was often just one of a million activities for the other kids taking lessons, so ensemble work was off the table even when the teacher was trying to get it going; we did homeschool band, but we were perpetual outsiders there even when I took on volunteer roles. The kids in music were doing theater and 4h all together as well (and sometimes twelve other activities on top of that), and we didn't have the bandwidth to do those things. 

We are perpetual outsiders who have tried it everything we could physically possibly try. 

Homeschool moms are free at the right hours but too busy, and school moms are free when I am not or just not free at all. I have carefully cultivated friendships by going out of my way to be with people only to have something change in the schedule for one of them, and one day, it's our last outing, and we literally don't see each other for years. Just out of the blue from one small change. Over and over and over x many friends. 

Moms of high schoolers don't make new friends either around here--that's already on track from the time the kids are little, and when they are in high school, the parents just drop the kids off for events if the high schoolers come to school-wide events at all (my son attends a pre-K to 12 school, but he's new as a 9th grader; he is making friends, but it's very clear that from an adult perspective we're entering a well-established place with well-established roles). I thought I hit it off with one mom at an event, but she's a flake. Brushes off details that make a huge difference and leaves me picking up the pieces in the most inconvenient ways while basically washing her hands of responsibility for dropping the ball. I've been burned big time twice on top of a million little inconveniences (second experience was something scheduled before the first big ball being dropped, and it wasn't something I could really back out of due to having no alternative by then).

[Rosie_0801]

Some people are so used to being treated badly that anyone who comes along and is reliably nice freaks them out. A lot of people view niceness as a weakness. 

[Indigo Blue]

54 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said:

Some people are so used to being treated badly that anyone who comes along and is reliably nice freaks them out. A lot of people view niceness as a weakness. 

So true. The bolded is why I get myself into crazy situations and trouble. I’ve had to learn to stop being so nice. Well, at least, stop appearing to be so nice. Not that I’m always perfect and nice…..it just comes across that way, IRL, to my detriment. 
 

So then, that makes one more reserved, cautious, and withdrawn. 
 

If someone comes along who seems genuinely nice, it does make one want to be really sure about that before trusting. It gets so complicated. 

[knitgrl]

Dh and I are introverts. Our definition of "friend" is probably somewhat narrow. We have each had an experience with good friends who got very upset when our views did not 100% line up with theirs. Even though we agree with them on the big things, it was really important to them that we were on the exact same page for even lesser things. Perhaps this is some of the issue? There are people in my life who I love dearly, but I do not agree with them on everything, and that is ok.

[athena1277]

My mom has dealt with it some since my dad died several years ago.  She does get out to church and other activities, so it’s not severe.  My mil, on the other hand, I think is dealing with a lot of loneliness and maybe depression.  She and fil moved several years ago to be near bil’s family and near-ish to extended family.  They left an area where they had lots of friends (they lived there 40 years and were very active in their church).  When the moved the didn’t make a lot of friends before Covid happened and fil passed away.  Now she rarely leaves the house, not even for church.  She has some chronic health issues, but I think she may be depressed.  Unfortunately I don’t think it would be taken well if I say anything.

[Mrs Tiggywinkle Again]

I haven’t really had true friends since I had kids.  My oldest was intense from birth and it was clear that the usual Mommy and Me things weren’t going to work—he didn’t like music or movement and story time was a disaster. He was speaking in full sentences long before his first birthday and quick to express his desire to leave when we tried anything. The meltdowns felt endless and it became easier to stay home where I could manage his environment.  DH’s work schedule made things difficult and then I went back to work part time.

Then I had three kids in 4.5 years; the oldest with autism and the youngest a preemie with reactive airway disease that landed us in the hospital if someone with a respiratory illness so much looked in his direction. I had hoped to meet other school moms, but Oldest DS spent his elementary years getting suspended and placed on home bound before I finally sued and he went to a special needs school that could manage his intense need for quiet, low sensory input and rigid scheduling.  We got him there and I breathed a sigh of relief, ready to get involved finally at the school where DD was in second grade and DS the younger was in preschool, and then Covid happened.

At this point I don’t really have hope of finding friends. I have a ridiculous work schedule that’s now opposite DH’s, and I don’t even know where or how to find friends between work and my kids’ needs. My coworkers are mostly men, and while I’m certainly friendly, I don’t think it’s a wise idea to have a married man as a BFF.

But I’m lonely and could really really use a good friend.

 

Edited May 5, 2023 by Mrs Tiggywinkle Again

[Janeway]

My dad for sure.

[TechWife]

I’m an introvert. There is a big difference between being an introvert and being lonely. Both introverts and extroverts can be lonely. I do think that loneliness is a growing cultural problem. I think there are many reasons. As a border stalker, I think one of the larger issues may be a shortage of respect for others that plays out in who we choose to interact with and the scope of the interaction. We all want to be with “my people,” but really have a very narrow definition of who fits that bill.  Anecdotally, think people who possess social awareness & the accompanying/resulting social skills are becoming increasingly harder to find. 

[Rosie_0801]

6 minutes ago, TechWife said:

 Anecdotally, think people who possess social awareness & the accompanying/resulting social skills are becoming increasingly harder to find. 

I just said to a mate the other day that the reason we can cope with one another is because we both understand the concept of an academic argument. 

[ScoutTN]

12 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said:

I just said to a mate the other day that the reason we can cope with one another is because we both understand the concept of an academic argument. 

Yes, this seems to be a dying art. 

[GoVanGogh]

I have been feeling extremely isolated for the past few years, mainly due to my health issues and also newly empty nest/past the homeschool activities. I can’t drive very far because of my health, so that further limits me. I am involved in a hobby club, but have to be very careful about not taking on too much - again, because of my health. I can’t just sign up for activities because I never know which brain/body I am waking up with. It is so frustrating. I go days now without talking to anyone besides DH and a few people in passing at the gym or grocery store. I had a psych appointment earlier this week and she expressed concern about my isolation. I am trying, though. I decided to try our library’s book club again, though a different group than I previously went to. (There was a group of women in the book club I previously went to that were extremely cold and judgmental, including one book we read on mental health/suicide and another on childhood cancer. After three months in a row of them railroading all discussions, I couldn’t take it anymore.) I also joined our town’s senior center, which equally bothers me and amuses me. LOL I signed up to take a jewelry making class next week and am looking forward to some of their field trips. I don’t know if I will be one of the younger ones there, but I am old enough to join and it was only $10 a year. 

[Toocrazy!!]

I’d describe myself as a loner, maybe two steps past introvert:) So, I’m not a good judge. But I do think having people you can rely on, and just people to talk to are important. 
I will say, if you have pickleball in your area, try it out. It’s pretty universally known to be nice people. I enjoy it so much and have met the best people. And for my very non diverse area, the diversity is impressive. We laugh, we get exercise, no one takes it too seriously. We meet up after for dinner once in awhile. It’s just the nicest group of people. I’m very lucky to have gotten involved a couple years ago. 

[mommyoffive]

I feel like this can and is happening in my life.  I think I am half introverted and half extroverted.  I like both.  

Right after we got married we moved to a new state where we knew nobody.  Dh had a job and met people that way.  I got pg immediately and had HG so I never got a job.  Had the baby who was a very difficult baby and we lived in a tiny town.  I don't think I met anyone until that kid was 6 months old.  I have found living in a small town very difficult to break into the social scenes because everyone went to high school together and they just were not open to letting someone from the outside in.  Over time my "friends" were the mom's I knew from play group and then the activities my kids did.  But overtime they would phase out.  The moms from play group, well all those kids went to public school so start over with moms with younger kids.  Join new activities and start all over again.  Then my kids would quit that activity or move to a new dance school. Or the other parents would stop having kids after one or two and I was back in the newborn phase all over again.  Or we couldn't get together because of the younger kid naptime.  After awhile they just stop asking you.  We tried homeschool coops but the one around us is based off of religion and we never fit in because of that, so we quit that.  We moved to our 3rd dance school and there was an large group of parents that were part of it and it was just a big hangout 6 to 7 days a week.  It was fun and I had an adult hangout everyday.  Then Covid hit.  Almost all the students left the school.  They didn't go back to face to face classes until summer 2021.  That adult hangout I had disappeared.  It was awful for me.   We ended up leaving that dance school a year ago, so start all over again.   It was really difficult to meet any parents at this new place because of covid restrictions.  But a year in I know a few of them.  

I sort of wish I was into going to church because I think it just is a natural meeting place.  I would love to join a group.   I felt like just joining a gym is a lot slower to meet people.  But I am sure I need to do something.  I notice when I don't see anyone outside of my dh that it is just such a lonely feeling.  And I recognize this could go really badly if my dh dies or my kids all move away.

I think it is so hard to make friends sometimes.  People are on their phones so even when you are in the same room together people don't talk.   

[marbel]

I have always spent a lot of time alone, and often crave time away from everyone, but I still get lonely. I haven't had any IRL friends for a long time. I miss going out for coffee, or for a walk, or a bookstore browse with a friend. Currently my closest friend for doing that sort of thing with is my daughter, which is great that we have such a relationship, but I still would like to have a friend who is more of a peer.

I've always felt like a bit of an outsider, even in school. Most recently, my outsiderness is because I had my kids late in life (40 and 41) and women my age were already past the little kid stage, so we had little in common.  I had one glorious period of my life where I/my family had a great friend group. I had found a group of friends when my kids were little, at a playgroup. At the time, and with those people, my being several years older than everyone else didn't matter. (My husband is also several years young than me, so I was always the oldest person in the room, but no one cared.)  Anyway, then we moved, and most people here seem to be stuck in their own age groups. It's so odd to me. I don't know if that's a west vs east coast thing - with people in the west being more open and welcoming, with people in the east being more closed off. I'm sure there are plenty of counter examples. 

I do try to get out to library programs, etc - some of the things mentioned in the article - but my natural shyness makes it hard. I always assume members of a group will make an effort to welcome new people, but that doesn't always happen. I get that it's on me to put myself forward but the groups I've encountered are so closed off. 

Anyway, sounds like a big pity party but just responding to the thread. I do enjoy time alone and am not too worried about the future. I have a small, close group of friends I have never met, women from an old homeschool group that have stuck together for, I don't know, 20 years or so?  So I have contact with the outside world. 🙂 But I can see the problem of loneliness, for sure, and the implications for people. 

Edited May 5, 2023 by marbel

[TechWife]

Just thinking out loud, here. In the US, we have commodified relationships to an extent. Pay to participate activities are a regular part of life now. In addition to all of the private, for-profit sports, music and academic tutoring activities, bookstores run book clubs, fabric & craft stores run quilting, sewing, knitting and general crafting programming, multi levels marketing schemes exploit acquaintances, pools are run by neighborhood associations or private clubs and charities run their own events instead of civic organizations raising the money and donating it. For those who want friendship to be centered around people, it’s increasingly lonely. These paid groups are changing membership all the time and when people don’t sign up for the next thing, no one really notices because there’s someone else paying their way into the group. Meanwhile, membership in civic organizations is drying up, organizations that rely on volunteers are scaling back services because they can’t staff appropriately and kids aren’t simply playing pick up ball in the driveway. There doesn’t seem to be a healthy concept that  community is made of people, not money, events or activities.

[J-rap]

I haven't seen this in my particular world, but I definitely know it's out there.  I think I'm what you'd call an extroverted introvert.  I don't like being the center of attention and I'm not a very assertive person, but I love being with people and I push myself to do things that help me do that -- with friends, strangers, groups, etc.  I'm currently part of three book clubs and two other small group communities.   One of the book clubs is with 7 complete strangers, all from very diverse backgrounds, but we all enjoy each other so much and are slowly becoming friends.  Our meetings are becoming longer and longer and now we've added a meal to them.  I've also become friends since the pandemic with two 80+ year-old women and the three of us have lunch together every month or so.  Those last two situations are with people who live in the same inner-city high-rise building that my dh and I live in ~ which happens to be a great place to meet lots of people!  And I'm fortunate to have numerous family members nearby who I actively see often.  

One of my favorite things to do is to slowly get to know other people as I make my weekly rounds.  Since we live in an inner-city neighborhood, I can walk to the bank, the pharmacy, the post office, cafes, shops, etc., and I see the same people (who work at those places) each time.  I've been gradually getting to know the cashiers, the tellers, the postal workers, the pharmacist, the various security guards, even police officers on their beats, etc.  I'll likely never be good friends with any of them, but there's something heartwarming about having those brief, friendly conversations when we see and recognize each other.

My role model is my dad, who is 95 and lives in a senior community.  He misses my mother so very much ~   She was his best friend and they used to talk about everything together.  Yet he has widened his world by being actively involved with his new neighbors, joining a bridge group, going to movie night and dinner outings that his senior community arranges, joining a pool class, making friends with his barber, and so much more.  He always makes the effort himself.  

 

 

 

 

[marbel]

Just riffing off some other posts...

Finding friends at kids' activities:  that worked for me when my kids were little, as I noted above. But when we moved from west coast to east and I tried that, it didn't work. One big reason was homeschooling. It is just not a thing here, like it was in Oregon. I mean, there are some homeschoolers and I joined a group but we could never fit in there; I was always using the wrong curriculum/was the wrong religion/I wasn't from around here. When my kids were in sports or swimming lessons, I'd try to talk to the other moms, but they'd either treat me like a curiosity (homeschool? What is that? why would you do that?) or, once they knew my kids weren't in school, they were not interested. 

Neighborhood: we walked around a lot and spent time in the front yard so we could say hello to people. Met a family with a girl my daughter's age and invited them over for dessert one night. The girls kinda hit it off and the mom said "the bus drops her off at x time every day, come over and if she doesn't have anything going on (homework, practice, etc) they can hang out. We tried that twice, but each time the girl was too busy. It was humiliating for my daughter. They never reached out to us. Weekends were no goes because of sports. So, no neighborhood friends. 

Intolerance of different philosophies/politics: I met a woman around the corner I used to walk with occasionally. She liked to talk about politics, which I really don't enjoy, but what was worse - she assumed I held the same beliefs as she did. And, she used insulting language when referring to the folks she disagreed with (like people using the terms "democrap" or "rethuglican") which I despise. I mean, even if I agreed with her, as I mostly did, conversation was so unpleasant. 

Again not trying to be all "poor me" because I know it's common. Commiserating with others in the same boat. 

[Sweets]

It sure is an epidemic where I live. For myself, I have my husband and sister but I honestly have no friends at all to hang out with. No one is interested in friendships in this area unless it benefits them. I go to church and used to be heavily involved in the music ministry, which I loved but only had aquaintences there but I had to drop out due to my husband's health. But I honestly love to hang out with my sister, so I don't feel lonely. 

My MIL though gets very lonely. She is widowed and the kids and grandkids are all busy to hang out daily with her. She has a part time morning job, which she likes, and has a group of "Red Hat Ladies" that meet weekly for supper. Plus she has her dog. But she's such an extrovert that it is hard for her to be alone, but I admire the way she goes about trying to get out of the house. My SIL, however, is also widowed and still works full time, and for her, she loves being at home alone since she's pulled in all different directions at work. 

For my kids (in their 20s), loneliness and lack of dating is a real problem. They rarely have dates nowadays or anyone to hang out with. My middle son, who is my social butterfly, just took a second job because he couldn't stand staying alone at home on his days off.  I'm not sure the problem - it's like the problem with me - people only seemed to be interested in friendship as long as you could benefit them. 

I think it's a problem across all ages and socioeconomic levels.

[Faith-manor]

22 hours ago, fairfarmhand said:

Yeah I read that article but one thing I didn’t see addressed is that with money being tight for so many families there isn’t enough time or energy to pursue those connections when you’re racing from work to home and then to your second job. 
many people are lonely because they’re working their butts off to just scrape by.

This is what I see a lot of, and also couples work opposite shifts so they can't spend much time together, nor can they get together with other couples.

I feel like my adult sons have way better work life balance. They do not have children, work about 45 hrs a week, and do not own homes so no yardwork/maintenance stuff on the weekends. They carve out time every week to visit with friends or family. Most people I know work 60-70 hours, do the house stuff on the weekend. If it isn't Thanksgiving, Christmas, or the Super Bowl, they are just working, sleeping, and ferrying kids to activities, no social life, no down time with their s.o.

Mark and I are kind of different. We really are best friends, and prefer each other's company to anyone else, and have many common interests and hobbies. We have one other couple very similar to us, and about five times a year, we get together with them and go to a movie, to the DSO, or to a play, and always have dinner together. It seems to be all we need. 

[KungFuPanda]

I’m not lonely. I’m even beginning to think the introvert/extrovert labels are a bit of a scam since every woman my age is a self-proclaimed introvert because we all need every item on that introvert checklist. I probably would have been lonely during Covid isolation if it happened any other time in my life, but it happened when I really needed to get off the merry go round for a bit. Also, I live with My Person so I never get deeply lonely at home.
 

I’m wondering if some social loneliness is economic. Women don’t spend on themselves when times are tight. Their kids might be in every activity, but having enough expendable income that they can meet regularly with other people is a problem with a shrinking middle class. Even just meeting for coffee and a doughnut is pricier than ever. A walk around the block is hard if you get off work after the sun sets. Also, if you’re working more to bring in money or make it stretch further, the time when you even feel like leaving the house is going to be greatly reduced.
 

Sometimes the gravitational pull of a cozy home is really hard to overcome. I’ve dragged myself out to events that I didn’t want to get ready for or drive to, and ended up having a good experience. I’ve also skipped a few things because I just didn’t want to put in the effort to fight inertia. If I defaulted to the physically easier plan every time or skipped things that might make me tired I wouldn’t leave the house.
 

Trying to get back to a ‘normal’ level of activity after so much isolation has been a lot more effort than I anticipated. I had several things on my calendar last week for the first time in a long time and it was a lot. I can absolutely see how someone could get in the habit of opting out of everything then feel lonely down the line. 

[Clarita]

On 5/4/2023 at 2:29 PM, Melissa Louise said:

It goes along with a society that prioritizes the individual. Would I give up my loneliness to be part of a more communal society, with those attendant difficulties? No. Freedom means a lot. Besides, people suffer great loneliness in the midst of family or other social life.

As someone who spent her younger years living a very obligatory communal lifestyle, it's always a bit jarring for me when people idealize it. There was so much unhealthy going on with an entire "village" being in everybody's business. I want to say there must be some good middle ground of having community but also respecting that there are individuals involved. 

[mom2scouts]

I often feel lonely and I'm starting to worry what will happen in a couple of years when my last child leaves home. So much of my life has revolved around kid activities and almost all the social activity I've had has been with people I've met through those activities and at those activities. Sadly, I've found when my child stops doing an activity, even people I thought were actually friends fade away, busy with their own lives and whatever their own kids are doing. Now that my youngest is driving, I don't even get those short conversations with other parents while picking up or sitting in waiting rooms. My dh and I used to have more shared interests, but he started scrapping and recycling and he spends all his free time with his piles of junk while I would rather become more minimalist and go out and do things. We rarely go out and do anything fun anymore.

I love homeschooling, but it has further isolated us because there's only one high school in our community and much of the community social life revolves around the school. I did find a nearby co-op this year and have met some nice women, but we haven't done anything outside the co-op so I'm not sure they would be long term friends. I also have trouble, like KungFu said, overcoming the inertia and just getting out and doing things, especially in the winter. I think I'm going to have to make some big life changes if I don't want to spend the next decade sitting alone at home.

[Melissa Louise]

15 hours ago, TechWife said:

Just thinking out loud, here. In the US, we have commodified relationships to an extent. Pay to participate activities are a regular part of life now. In addition to all of the private, for-profit sports, music and academic tutoring activities, bookstores run book clubs, fabric & craft stores run quilting, sewing, knitting and general crafting programming, multi levels marketing schemes exploit acquaintances, pools are run by neighborhood associations or private clubs and charities run their own events instead of civic organizations raising the money and donating it. For those who want friendship to be centered around people, it’s increasingly lonely. These paid groups are changing membership all the time and when people don’t sign up for the next thing, no one really notices because there’s someone else paying their way into the group. Meanwhile, membership in civic organizations is drying up, organizations that rely on volunteers are scaling back services because they can’t staff appropriately and kids aren’t simply playing pick up ball in the driveway. There doesn’t seem to be a healthy concept that  community is made of people, not money, events or activities.

This is so true.

[SKL]

2 hours ago, Ordinary Shoes said:

Regarding the claim that people are too intolerant of different opinions - how can you really be friends with people who don't respect your humanity? How do I look past someone's belief that gay people are groomers and shouldn't be allowed to adopt children? How can I look past a belief that women shouldn't vote or should obey their husbands? I can't do that. I can be civil and do the chit-chat but I don't want to be around people like that. 

I spent twenty years of my life trying to fit in with conservative Christian people. I held my tongue. I put up with comments like, "people who put their kids in daycare just want the government to raise their kids," when I put I my kid in daycare. The further I've gotten away from it, the more I can recognize the gaslighting. Being in that environment was very damaging to me. 

I've heard the "just get over it!" and "that's silly - back in my day people disagreed but still got along." First, that's not really the case. It's not that everyone got along. Rather it's that some people kept their mouths shut to stay in the community and other people weren't even allowed to be part of the community. Second, I think "just get over it!" is often coming from a place of pain and damage. 

We might have an epidemic of loneliness but we also have an epidemic of toxic communities. 

I think that part of the loneliness problem is the fact that people are encouraged to take this view too far.

Obviously there's a level of obnoxious that nobody wants to be around.  But there is still a very wide range of ideas that people should be able to tolerate in others.  The rigidity of only accepting like-minded people is scary.  I don't see how it's any different from old-fashioned homophobia, misogyny, etc.  And I don't see how anyone can evolve as a human if they can't respect diversity of views.

Rather than encouraging folks to avoid exposure to annoying opinions, I would rather people be challenged to learn how to have difficult but respectful discussions on almost everything.

[DawnM]

On 5/4/2023 at 4:44 PM, Indigo Blue said:

Do you think the new culture of tighter boundaries, of “cutting out anyone from my life who doesn’t deserve my time”, and many cutting off all family is a factor in this? This, along with people working so hard to get by, could be a perfect storm brewing for isolation? People seem more unwilling to put themselves out there. 
 

I agree with having boundaries. It just seems there may be a downside to people having their boundaries. Everyone ends up more to themselves. Could this be playing a part?

I get it. You have to have boundaries.
 

But I’m introverted and don’t personally feel any negative effect of isolation. I’ve been hurt too many times, so being alone a lot makes me much happier than being “out there” and getting hurt. 
 

We used to do so much in the community. Now I just want to do the things I want to do….and fully enjoy them. 
 

 

 

This new way of "my way or the highway" is making me bonkers.   People just cut people out for stuff that isn't that big of a deal.   It is like people just don't know how to get along with other people anymore or allow for any little "slight."   It can be very selfish and only hurt the person enforcing those boundaries more.   They don't realize that.

I am not talking about actual abuse or anything like that, but I see my students just cutting people out right and left for small things.   It is like they just don't know how to work through things at all.   

And I think social media allows people to really be mean to others and not face many consequences.   Remember when we used to just THINK about what we would love to say but we knew it wasn't appropriate or beneficial so we actually just kept it in our heads and told only our closest friends privately?   Yeah, those days are gone.   

[DawnM]

1. Strengthening social infrastructure, which includes things like parks and libraries as well as public programs.
2. Enacting pro-connection public policies at every level of government, including things like accessible public transportation or paid family leave.
3. Mobilizing the health sector to address the medical needs that stem from loneliness.
4. Reforming digital environments to "critically evaluate our relationship with technology."
5. Deepening our knowledge through more robust research into the issue.
6. Cultivating a culture of connection.

 

I am quoting the article to pick it apart if people want to.   

I know #2 would be very beneficial but not every city in the US wants extended public transportation.   My son would love to have better transportation as he doesn't drive and probably won't.

How would #4 work?   What would that look like?   I can't see that anything can really be done about people's personal devices, am I missing something?

[marbel]

1 hour ago, DawnM said:

I am quoting the article to pick it apart if people want to.   

I know #2 would be very beneficial but not every city in the US wants extended public transportation.   My son would love to have better transportation as he doesn't drive and probably won't.

How would #4 work?   What would that look like?   I can't see that anything can really be done about people's personal devices, am I missing something?

Most of these points sound like vague corporate speech.

1. I'm all for more parks, libraries, public programs. They can get people out of the house but it doesn't mean anyone is going to talk to them. Connections aren't made just by physical presence in a place. 

2. "Pro-connection public policies."  Accessible public transportation - I think this is very important, and might help if people cannot get to places where they might find/strengthen connections. Family leave is awesome and probably more people need that so that is a good point. 

3. Mobilizing health sector - I guess this could be useful but not sure how. I mean, doctors don't have time now to talk about more than the basics. 

4. "Reforming digital environments" No idea what this means. 

5. More research! OK? 

6. "Cultivating a culture of connection." It's cute alliteration, but what does it even mean? 

[Faith-manor]

9 hours ago, Ordinary Shoes said:

Regarding the claim that people are too intolerant of different opinions - how can you really be friends with people who don't respect your humanity? How do I look past someone's belief that gay people are groomers and shouldn't be allowed to adopt children? How can I look past a belief that women shouldn't vote or should obey their husbands? I can't do that. I can be civil and do the chit-chat but I don't want to be around people like that. 

I spent twenty years of my life trying to fit in with conservative Christian people. I held my tongue. I put up with comments like, "people who put their kids in daycare just want the government to raise their kids," when I put I my kid in daycare. The further I've gotten away from it, the more I can recognize the gaslighting. Being in that environment was very damaging to me. 

I've heard the "just get over it!" and "that's silly - back in my day people disagreed but still got along." First, that's not really the case. It's not that everyone got along. Rather it's that some people kept their mouths shut to stay in the community and other people weren't even allowed to be part of the community. Second, I think "just get over it!" is often coming from a place of pain and damage. 

We might have an epidemic of loneliness but we also have an epidemic of toxic communities. 

This issue is one that caused us to become distanced from a lot of people who were once "friends". "Covid is a hoax and no one is dying, we should force LGBTQ people to lewd quiet lives of desperation but hey, making me wear a mask is too much government intrusion, blah blah blah" and literally watching folks we once thought of as good people not give a crap about any other human being on the planet until all of a sudden they got terribly sick, their mother or aunt or whatever was hospitalized or died, and then not showing any remorse for their attitude and conspiracy blathering, was so far over the line for us, that we were done. With friends like that, who needs enemies?

We live in a toxic community. Very toxic. This is NOT the village anyone should yearn to have involved in their lives.

 

[Heartstrings]

5 minutes ago, Faith-manor said:

This issue is one that caused us to become distanced from a lot of people who were once "friends". "Covid is a hoax and no one is dying, we should force LGBTQ people to lewd quiet lives of desperation but hey, making me wear a mask is too much government intrusion, blah blah blah" and literally watching folks we once thought of as good people not give a crap about any other human being on the planet until all of a sudden they got terribly sick, their mother or aunt or whatever was hospitalized or died, and then not showing any remorse for their attitude and conspiracy blathering, was so far over the line for us, that we were done. With friends like that, who needs enemies?

We live in a toxic community. Very toxic. This is NOT the village anyone should yearn to have involved in their lives.

 

A certain segment has definitely taken a turn toward toxicity.  I’ve been a blue dot in a Red Sea my whole life.   I’ve always been very liberal/progressive and always had friends who were more conservative than me.  There’s a wide gulf between the conservatism of the past and whatever is going on today.   Today it’s more conspiracy theoriest, more violent.  It’s not cutting off people for disagreement, I’ve never agreed with these people on certain things and that was always ok.  It’s cutting off people because they can’t stop talking about lizard people, body double Presidents, and fantasies of committing acts of violence.  
 

[ScoutTN]

I have found volunteer work for things I really care about to be one good way of making connections that can blossom into friendships. The nature of the organization often ensures some like-mindedness and yet there is space for individuality. 
 

As always, ymmv. 

I do live in the south where surface friendliness is typical and valued. It can be a starting place. And in a big enough city to have lots of options.

[Jean in Newcastle]

3 hours ago, DawnM said:

1. Strengthening social infrastructure, which includes things like parks and libraries as well as public programs.
2. Enacting pro-connection public policies at every level of government, including things like accessible public transportation or paid family leave.
3. Mobilizing the health sector to address the medical needs that stem from loneliness.
4. Reforming digital environments to "critically evaluate our relationship with technology."
5. Deepening our knowledge through more robust research into the issue.
6. Cultivating a culture of connection.

 

I am quoting the article to pick it apart if people want to.   

I know #2 would be very beneficial but not every city in the US wants extended public transportation.   My son would love to have better transportation as he doesn't drive and probably won't.

How would #4 work?   What would that look like?   I can't see that anything can really be done about people's personal devices, am I missing something?

My digital devices, including the one I'm typing on right now, do a lot to mitigate any loneliness I have.  Back when I was a semi-invalid, I catapulted to being the top poster on this board because it was my only outlet for "outside" interaction.  Sure, it's different than face to face interaction but it's led to meeting a lot of people face to face.  (Including you!)

Also- I use text to keep in touch with friends and family.  And phone calls.  I actually call two different people every week on "their day" to check in on them.  Both live too far away to check on in person.  And while I'm increasing some of my in person interactions with people, they still wipe me out physically.  I have wondered at times whether my calls were a bother to them, but they have said little things that make me think that no, this has been a lifeline to them too. (One especially has circumstances where I am the only person she can confide in about certain things going on in her life.)  I use devices to set up "dates" with women in my church (this actually is one of my goals each month on Granny's monthly goal thread.)  I also use those devices to find places to meet that are convenient to both of us and to get there via gps. 

I remember in my childhood and teens when living overseas meant that we would literally go years without seeing or hearing from family apart from a letter or two a year.  Even living in a dorm 250 miles away in the same country as my parents meant letters and not phone calls, because phone calls were like a telegram - for emergencies only.   (And since our boarding school censored our letters, it wasn't an honest way to build relationship.)  And when I moved across the ocean for college there were no phone calls.  International phone calls for my parents even then meant being called down to city hall where everyone who knew English listened in eagerly in order to practice their English skills.  I would kill to have a time machine move my childhood and teenage and college years forward to now when I could FaceTime and Skype and Zoom and text etc.  Right now I keep in touch with friends back in my childhood country so easily through my devices. 

Now to switch to loneliness in general.  This will be Christian Content, so fair warning to anyone reading this post who might want to avoid it:

Every day I pray that God will give me the interactions He wants me to have in my life that day.  And I pray that He will bring the people into my life (in general) that He wants to have there.  This isn't some magic spell.  It just means that I'm a bit more aware of my interactions with people - from the checker down at the grocery store, to the person I chit chat with on my walks.  It doesn't mean that I don't have days where I'm lonely but I don't expect a close friendship from every interaction.  I just hope to perhaps spread a bit of kindness (not trying to sound hokey) though I admit I've had my share of "leash your dog, you idiot" moments (I just think the "idiot" part).  It also means that I'm planning to reach out to a couple of older ladies that I really don't like too much, to offer some physical help that they might need.  Not because I will get anything out of it but because (if they even want my help) it might help someone else.  Life changes over time.  Our opportunities change over time.  But I've also been blessed to have some "iron sharpens iron" relationships develop over the years too.  We actually don't see each other often (and two are the ladies that I call weekly who live far away) but they are still very valuable to in my life. 

[itsheresomewhere]

I get it.  Where I am, it is difficult to find your place.  I live in a town your are either born here or you’re not.  I am not. People around here have their kids become friends with their friends kids from birth and they don’t branch out.  It is like the kids don’t know how to have friendships that are not arranged for them nor how to keep them once they get past the getting the getting to know you. They don’t know how to put the work into cultivating friendships. Our homeschooling community is one I have never fit into.  It is either very religious or no parenting and  this is so much worse since covid. Over the last few years, I have lost friends who have decided since I will not agree with their version of politics or their version of how people should be like them that I am not worthy of being within their circle.  Perhaps, one day I might regret having a very select few close friends but I doubt it.  If anything, what is going on in my life now shows me that I really only need a few close ones and some nice people to chat with online. 
 

[Faith-manor]

6 hours ago, Heartstrings said:

A certain segment has definitely taken a turn toward toxicity.  I’ve been a blue dot in a Red Sea my whole life.   I’ve always been very liberal/progressive and always had friends who were more conservative than me.  There’s a wide gulf between the conservatism of the past and whatever is going on today.   Today it’s more conspiracy theoriest, more violent.  It’s not cutting off people for disagreement, I’ve never agreed with these people on certain things and that was always ok.  It’s cutting off people because they can’t stop talking about lizard people, body double Presidents, and fantasies of committing acts of violence.  
 

Exactly. I do not want to talk about the president's ears again. Just no. Enough. And ya, we have people in this town, more than one family, that are openly hostile about "RH negative bloodlines". So done with it. The extremes are so bad that people who exist somewhere in the middle like somewhat left or somewhat right of " center", are trampled and demolished by the extremes. And then if you are a person who can't be "pegged" in any possible way, welcome to the utter most no-man's land.

Ultimately, I am very fortunate. I know how lucky I am. My husband and I are best buds, my kids want us around. We have been invited to D&D parties, euchre parties, movie nights with the two bachelors and their eclectic mix of GenZ friends. If I need to socialize, I do have immediate family I can do that with. But, I am also coming to terms with a comfortable ease of backing away from very much "community". 

[Faith-manor]

5 minutes ago, Ordinary Shoes said:

I'm sorry but I don't think I should be forced to have a "respectful discussion" about my humanity. Why should I be required to have respect for views that harm me and people I love? 

What is a "level of obnoxious?" Why isn't believing that it's okay to rape women or force 10 year olds to give birth enough of a "level of obnoxious" by itself? 

And believing something is in no way the same thing as sexuality, race, or gender. You can change your mind. Someone can't stop being gay. 

Believing that homosexuality is a sin is not "annoying" to me. It's harmful to people I love. 

And how do I not "tolerate" the belief that women are inferior or homosexuality is a sin or whatever? Believe what you want but that doesn't give you the right to my time or my emotions. 

 

This. Some "beliefs" are most definitely a bridge too far for me to be willing to have someone in my life socially.