thanks

[Drama Llama]

...

Edited March 27, 2023 by BandH

[Katy]

Without meeting you? I’d assume you’re more stable than your DH but just as messed up, not that it was a later-onset mental illness. And asking those sorts of questions of total strangers wouldn’t be appropriate. 

Another home would be fine. Someone with a nanny AND a grandfather would also be fine. If it goes well I might ask her out for coffee and invite her to ask the weird questions that she might have about her kids safety if they are going to be friends. 

[Carrie12345]

If I said no to the first, I’d say no to the second. That’s based on my own experience with family dynamics.

[livetoread]

I can understand the reasoning. I might think Dad would be more likely to show up at regular house and I wouldn't be aware of all the ins and outs of that. A relative's house seems less likely for Dad to show up and seems like violence would be less likely. When I picture dv cases that my kid could be caught in the middle of, it's Dad showing up with intent to hurt mom and kids if they are around. Mom is more the trigger though.

Now whether that reasoning is actually true or not, I wouldn't know, but I could see myself thinking that. And it doesn't sound like it would be true in your situation, but I wouldn't know that.

[rebcoola]

Not having met you the answer would have been no to both.

[Lecka]

I would think she relented when there was more information that made it sound like — this kid has good supervision and it sounds nice.  It sounds wholesome.
 

I wouldn’t think it was super specific in details beyond that.   
 

Also a nanny sounds like people aren’t poor.  

I can be like that sometimes where new information just changes my impression, but it’s not about comparing Situation A and Situation B and thinking B was better.  

 

I am not that logical sometimes.  
 

[Lecka]

I would also not rule out additional lobbying by the child.  

[Drama Llama]

...

Edited March 27, 2023 by BandH

[Katy]

Nanny = money = stability + distance from where Dad might show up

[Rosie_0801]

Nannies and extended family are also more trusted by the system if something weird happens.

[Drama Llama]

...

Edited March 27, 2023 by BandH

[teachermom2834]

32 minutes ago, Lecka said:

I would think she relented when there was more information that made it sound like — this kid has good supervision and it sounds nice.  It sounds wholesome.
 

I wouldn’t think it was super specific in details beyond that.   
 

Also a nanny sounds like people aren’t poor.  

I can be like that sometimes where new information just changes my impression, but it’s not about comparing Situation A and Situation B and thinking B was better.  

 

I am not that logical sometimes.  
 

Yeah I am agreeing it might not even be that logical. Sometimes it just gets tiring to keep saying no. 

I am usually one that has no trouble saying no to my kids or being the bad guy but there are time it just gets tiring and I can see someone just saying oh that doesn’t sound so bad. Whatever. It might not have been a whole logical decision making process. The mom might like your kid and want to find a way to say yes and the nanny + pop gave her an easy path to a yes. 

[chocolate-chip chooky]

My guess is that it has nothing to do with trusting you. I'm guessing she doesn't want to set the precedent of her child going to your house. Dad is 'locked up' now, but he isn't always.

While it's hard, it's also understandable, I think.

[Mrs Tiggywinkle Again]

I’d say no to both.  I know this is unfair, but I don’t want my kids at homes where a protective order is in place or with people who have an active protective order.   This unfortunately has included my own sibling and my nieces and nephew.  
But I have simply been involved in or aware of too many instances where a perpetrator has walked right through a restraining order. 

I would, however, gladly invite your child, you, your other children to my home and seek to get to know you and understand the situation.  In your particular situation, I’d be comfortable once I had more information.

I think in this case it’s probably the monetary status of having a nanny that truly made the difference. I’m not sure how I feel about that.

If your kid told me it’s okay because dad is “locked up” that wouldn’t have made me feel better on face value. I would have assumed jail, which people get randomly and unexpectedly released from all the time.  A locked psychiatric facility is a very different situation.

Edited March 24, 2023 by Mrs Tiggywinkle Again

[HomeAgain]

So, my line of thought would be that the nanny is hired.  They're obligated to protect a kid and don't have the family loyalty to hide a problem that happened.

I would let my kid knowing that the 3rd party is there if anything goes down, but I wouldn't be as comfortable with just one parent there in this situation.  I'm sorry.  I know it's like a gut punch and you did nothing wrong. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

24 minutes ago, BandH said:

But she knows he is not showing up.

People get let out of locked situations all the time. Sometimes without the proper notification. 
 

I would have said no to both but would have assured your son that he could bake at my house. 

[Katy]

31 minutes ago, BandH said:

But she knows he is not showing up.

She doesn’t know when that won’t be true

[Clarita]

Another perspective is that this is the answer of a teenager. I know that she said "My mom", but I also know that my mom gave me full permission to use her to say no to situations I didn't feel comfortable with. She did not require that I justify it to her and she would stand by my statements no matter how she actually felt about the situation.  

As a full grown adult above the age of 25 I'd either say yes to both or say no to both. That to me is rational. I could definitely see myself being a teenager not making totally rational decision and feeling somehow one situation is safer than the other. It could be a stupid justification from because there are two adults, to one of them is a "professional", to because the grandfather is there who is the father (aka authority figure) of the dad. Then I would absolutely say "Oh because my mom won't let me" even though I never even asked her. 

[catz]

That's a good point @Clarita.   Unless you talked to the mom directly about it, I wouldn't assume what one teen is telling another teen is 100 percent accurate.  

 

[Terabith]

I also might have some concerns about a 12 year old cooking/ baking without an adult on site, if I didn't know the particular 12 year old and his kitchen safety track record.  

I mean, I would also probably, if I didn't know you, have concerns about the situation and maybe you being differently messed up from your husband.  Locked up could mean jail which also often involves releases; being in the house where there is a protective order in place, I could see it being problematic.  

But even without the crazy dad stuff, a first hang out where the preteens/ young teens are going to be unsupervised and knives and hot ovens in use, might give me pause.  

[ScoutTN]

Probably not in either case. I would want to actually know the adults in charge.

[WildflowerMom]

(Kinda ramble, sorry)...

I wouldn't have.   I'd want to get to know you.   

(deleted... too personal.) 

I'd try to get to know the mom and then your kid could maybe go over there some instead of their kid coming to your house.   Btw, it sucks.  I'm sorry.   💛

Edited March 24, 2023 by WildflowerMom

[Corraleno]

To me, a house with two adults supervising, neither of whom are the target of the person with the restraining order, would feel much safer than a home where the only adult* is the likely target. Being told that the dangerous person was "locked up" would make me think he was in jail, which would only make me more concerned.

Maybe that's not rational, but there've been so many stories in the news recently where a man has killed not only his own family, but also other people who just happened to be in the house at the time, that I would be paranoid about it. And that would not be any reflection on you as a mother, just a visceral reaction on my part.

*(It's actually not clear from your post if you would be there? If two 12 yr olds would be cooking without an adult in the home, that would be a definite no from me, apart from any other considerations.)

[Faith-manor]

I think Tiggy and Corraleno are spot on with what is probably the heart of the issue.

I am very sorry. You and your kids deserve better than this. But people will always think first priority of safety for their own child. 

💓💓💓

[livetoread]

16 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

To me, a house with two adults supervising, neither of whom are the target of the person with the restraining order, would feel much safer than a home where the only adult* is the likely target. Being told that the dangerous person was "locked up" would make me think he was in jail, which would only make me more concerned.

Maybe that's not rational, but there've been so many stories in the news recently where a man has killed not only his own family, but also other people who just happened to be in the house at the time, that I would be paranoid about it. And that would not be any reflection on you as a mother, just a visceral reaction on my part.

*(It's actually not clear from your post if you would be there? If two 12 yr olds would be cooking without an adult in the home, that would be a definite no from me, apart from any other considerations.)

Yes, this is what I was trying to get at.

Though personally I'd be fine with 12yos cooking unsupervised assuming at least one has some experience (which he does).

[catz]

I actually wouldn't have wanted my kids cooking at 12 with a friend without a parent at home.  Neither were super kitchen savvy at that age and at a new house where I didn't really know the other kid's experience level, no.  I would be more comfortable knowing adults were in the home.  Heck, there were plenty of kids we know during those middle school years I would have said no to them alone in a home with them at all just because impulse control can be dicey at those ages.  

As an aside, when my son was 16, I think his friend was 15 my son went to his house on his invite.  He was home alone.  He was doing something with oil on the stovetop with no one home and burned his hand bad enough to have to call emergency services.  Ugh, my own son was so freaked out, he burned his hand pretty badly.  I think even responsible young people can get distracted or excited with a friend in the house and make mistakes.  And this kid has a single parent and did a lot of his own cooking in general.

[Mom_to3]

A statement by a 12 year old that dad is "locked up" (where? until when?) when dad has a reputation for being crazy or unstable and I don't know the other parent wouldn't be too reassuring. The perceived risk would be much lower in a different household with a nanny/housemanager and grandparent. Glad that the get together worked out! And I would appreciate the friend's honesty and your son's ingenuity of coming up with a possible solution - the kids managed to work this out (adults or older kids might have avoided the central question and simply refused without clarification). So the two kids get a thumbs up from me!

[Terabith]

50 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

To me, a house with two adults supervising, neither of whom are the target of the person with the restraining order, would feel much safer than a home where the only adult* is the likely target. Being told that the dangerous person was "locked up" would make me think he was in jail, which would only make me more concerned.

Maybe that's not rational, but there've been so many stories in the news recently where a man has killed not only his own family, but also other people who just happened to be in the house at the time, that I would be paranoid about it. And that would not be any reflection on you as a mother, just a visceral reaction on my part.

*(It's actually not clear from your post if you would be there? If two 12 yr olds would be cooking without an adult in the home, that would be a definite no from me, apart from any other considerations.)

I was just assuming that you wouldn't be home from the part about the "maybe she wanted adult supervision."  Obviously, if you are at home, that would count in my mind, but I agree that a home where neither of the adults are the targets of the insane dad does seem safer.

[fraidycat]

I'm confused because it's not entirely clear what supervision and activities were planned and communicated.

Were you going to be at the house while they baked or would they be unsupervised?

Is baking still the plan, just at SIL's house, but under the supervision of the nanny and Pop?

I might feel safer (whether it's actually true or not) allowing my kid to go to the extended family home where there are more adults than I would allowing them to go to your home. I would assume that you and the kids would be the target of a breach of protective orders in a more "private" setting than an extended family home.

In a similar situation, I might have allowed one but not the other, as well. Especially because I'd want my kid to be friend to your kid if they wanted to spend time with him, knowing that there are possibly some kids who would be discouraged from befriending your kid at all. 
 

Though, if they are not still baking at SIL's house, I'd wonder why your kid didn't just come hang out at our place per the original invitation.

[2squared]

We would probably have a blanket rule of no to going to hang with someone whose dad has a restraining order. My dh is an attorney and sees a lot of tough situations. Usually a home environment with a restraining order is not stable. We have similar rules for kids without restraining orders when we know of difficult home situations (and my dh is privy to all the known to law enforcement difficult home situations)  

I would absolutely invite the kid to my home, if the kid could be in my home without dh having a conflict of interest. That does cause issues for us at times.

if this were my kid, I wouldn’t turn down invitations from others. We can bake at home anytime. We don’t get invitations to hang with friends very often. 

[Bambam]

I generally didn't let my kids go over to someone's house if I hadn't met them and talked with them for at least a little bit. When they were older/driving themselves, different matter, but at 12, I was still pretty cautious. 

If someone invited my 12 yo over individually, I probably would have called the parent, asked if we could meet at a public place for the kids to hang out and us to talk - or just talk to her on the phone for a bit, and then depending upon my comfort level, I would have agreed or not.  Usually though it worked for me to invite kids to our house. I always thought the parent would come in to verify it was the correct house/get a feel for me/situation/etc, but I had one mom just drive by, drop kid off, and drove off again - never once verifying it was the correct house/we were home/etc. It was so strange. The arrangements had been made several days previously, with no verification the day of. Our kids met at a homeschool event, and that mom had never met me and knew nothing about me. 

However, if I wouldn't let my kid go over to a friend's house, there is no way I would let a nanny/house manager of their relative pick my child up to take them to a relative's house. That just seems wild. That's like two degrees of folks I don't know/have no clue about = just no.

But kudos for your 12 yo for coming up with a great and innovative solution! 

[Annie G]

I probably would have paused at my kid going 20 minutes away with people I don’t know. Like, my kid getting into a car w someone I don’t know? Probably not in my comfort zone. 
I would encourage kid to accept invites to friends’ homes (delay baking to hang w friend) because every time he’s at a friend’s house and the parents can see your son is delightful and nothing bad happens is another step closer to being comfortable with their kid at your house. 

[KungFuPanda]

3 hours ago, BandH said:

It would be true, except as my kid said, his Dad is “locked up”.  So today he is not showing up.
 

I was just curious, because it seems odd that her distrust of me didn’t extend to the rest of our family.

Since the kids are a bit older she probably feels like 12 is a good age to loosen the reigns a bit. Obviously she’s not so stressed that she’s wary of your son, and that’s good. I can kinda see why she’d be concerned about your address. She figures you have a restraining order for a reason and your address is a target of some significant dysfunction. The sister’s house not only has extra family supervision, but paid professional help. People behave differently with non-family adults around. 

[City Mouse]

I’m not sure from your description if you were going to be home at the time. I could understand why that patent might not want the kids home alone in that situation for fear that the dad might possibly show up.

[Drama Llama]

...

Edited March 27, 2023 by BandH

[Annie G]

I think there are plenty of teenage boys who have never even eaten a scone!

Glad they had a good time. 

[Drama Llama]

...

Edited March 27, 2023 by BandH

[Clemsondana]

1 hour ago, BandH said:

It's frustrating to me that I have no idea what this person knows.  This is a kid who isn't in my kid's grade, and this season is the first time they've been on a team or in a class together.  My kids are pretty sure he wasn't at either of the two events where DH made a scene.  And yet his mom clearly knows a fair amount about my business. Like, what is the rumor mill saying. 

Just a few weeks ago there was discussion with at least one parent (and maybe more) on a sports team about not sharing pictures.  Even if this family wasn't directly involved, that's the kind of information that people would share (whether to protect your kid or as gossip...the effect would be the same whatever the intent).  So, it's probably not surprising.  It's really unfortunate, but I don't know that people will easily process 'It's really dangerous to share a picture' and 'my house is completely safe to come to' at the same time.  But, as others have mentioned, it could just as easily be about cooking without supervision.  My younger is now a teen, and most parents still check to make sure that it's OK for kids to be home unsupervised.  Lots of parents who are fine with a kid being home alone worry about what friends might get into when they are together.  

[Storygirl]

It may have been the adult supervision. I still do not want my kids to go to another home when there is no adult there, and they are not allowed to have friends over when DH or I are not home. And my kids are much older than yours.

[Shoeless]

nm

Edited March 25, 2023 by Shoeless

[freesia]

I’m glad it went well. For me, it would have been the combination of no supervision and the protective order. I would have wanted an adult present even if Dad was in-patient. I also would have been concerned about him being released. I am also not crazy about 13 year olds hanging out together alone for an extended time even with an older sibling around. I’d be ok with a short run to the store or a one time event with a family I know. ( or one family we  have known for 15 years and the kids are like cousins) I remember too much what kids got up to after school when I was in junior high and certain parents weren’t home. I think the mom felt bad and really wanted to make it work. I can see myself agreeing to the nanny/pop arrangement under those circumstances. That’s so great that it was an option. 

[Not_a_Number]

I think the only way to control what people know would be to provide information yourself in a way that makes it clear it’s a tragedy and not gossip. Control the narrative.

I’m not surprised people are talking, but it sucks both that they are and that you don’t know what’s going around. I’m sorry 😕.

Glad your DS had fun with his friend and that the scones turned out well!

[mommyoffive]

16 hours ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle Again said:

I’d say no to both.  I know this is unfair, but I don’t want my kids at homes where a protective order is in place or with people who have an active protective order.   This unfortunately has included my own sibling and my nieces and nephew.  
But I have simply been involved in or aware of too many instances where a perpetrator has walked right through a restraining order. 

I would, however, gladly invite your child, you, your other children to my home and seek to get to know you and understand the situation.  In your particular situation, I’d be comfortable once I had more information.

I think in this case it’s probably the monetary status of having a nanny that truly made the difference. I’m not sure how I feel about that.

If your kid told me it’s okay because dad is “locked up” that wouldn’t have made me feel better on face value. I would have assumed jail, which people get randomly and unexpectedly released from all the time.  A locked psychiatric facility is a very different situation.

Me too.

[Drama Llama]

...

Edited March 27, 2023 by BandH

[Not_a_Number]

No, no, no, please don't e-mail the whole school. Do you have any friends who could spread the word in a way that's sympathetic to you? That's what I'd try, I think. 

I wouldn't do it without his brother's permission, either. I think this is something that should be family policy somehow. 

It just seems like the current state of affairs is really hard for everyone involved. 

[Clemsondana]

Several years ago, our music director became divorced.  This was shared by the director with the various music groups, which tend to be close and who were all appropriately sympathetic.  Several weeks later, the director came back and said 'i really appreciate your discretion...but...could you spread the word?  People keep coming up and asking 'How's Spouse?' and I'd like to not need to explain to everybody in the church individually that we are divorcing.'  It's kind of shocking, actually...with 50+ musicians, nobody had said anything until they were asked to.  

But, in your situation, some people have seen things and some people know things from sports and there are kids involved who talk to each other and what gets relayed could be like a game of telephone.  You might have success with taking the choir director's approach, and as @Not_a_Number suggested, get people who know you to share information when the opportunity presents itself.  As with other hard situations - health issues, finances, etc - there's no ideal way to both maintain privacy and have people know what's going on to respond appropriately.  The best approach may be to come up with a short message that your family agrees is for public consumption and let people know that they are free to share.  It doesn't have to be extremely detailed or personal, just enough to dispel rumors.  

[Drama Llama]

...

Edited March 27, 2023 by BandH

[SKL]

Supervision + possibly not at the first place his dad would go if he was after any of you.

I know he said his dad was locked up, but as a total stranger to your family, so many things were uncertain.  Like, how sure are we about dad’s release date?  What does “locked up” even mean?  And more….

[Jean in Newcastle]

I think that successful get togethers with friends will beget more successful get togethers. They will get to know you and will learn that they can trust you with their kid’s safety (as far as you have control over it). But the reality is that they will need to factor your dh’s mental health into their decisions just like you do (even though they don’t have to do it to the same degree that you do). 

[Drama Llama]

...

 

Edited March 27, 2023 by BandH