Do you love meat? Or not?

[Jaybee]

We usually have meat 4-5 times a week. That includes chicken and fish, and occasional pork. We eat a lot more chicken than anything else. My dh and sons want meat, and it helps fill them up, especially one of them. I like it, and it helps my blood sugar be more stable. However, I won't cook it as often when our boys move out. As for cravings, I occasionally crave fish, and I occasionally crave beef, but I don't crave chicken unless it is rotisserie or fried😜. I usually sauté or bake meats, or stew them in soups. I eat vegetables because I know they are good for me and nutritious, but I only crave them if we've been in a situation (traveling or something) for several days where it has been hard for me to get balanced meals. Honestly, if I didn't need them for nutritional reasons, I wouldn't eat them often. I do love the carb things, like bread and fruit, but try to limit them because I am diabetic. Chocolate and ice cream are my big temptations. I try to satisfy those cravings by keeping very dark chocolate on hand to dissolve in my mouth for dessert, or eating frozen blueberries as dessert sometimes. 

[Carrie12345]

2 hours ago, Teaching3bears said:

I have always thought of meat as something I have to eat for protein.  Otherwise, there are so many things I would rather eat.  As a child I hated it.  I like hot dogs and sometimes enjoy hamburger or steak if it is good and others are eating it but otherwise, I don’t care for it that much.  Anyways, I can’t relate to vegetarian products that are meant to taste like meat since I don’t think the taste of meat is so amazing.  Things I crave: fruit, chocolate, pizza and other things with tomato sauce and cheese, ice cream
Do most people crave meat?

Generally speaking, I don’t *crave* much of anything.  But I do very much enjoy many types of meats.  I try to cut back every now and then, primarily out of guilt over factory farming practices, but it doesn’t usually last long. I have zero interest in going vegetarian. 

[Selkie]

18 minutes ago, HomeAgain said:

Well, no. 

I looked up two different peoples, the Metis, who rely heavily on hunted foods, and the Japanese, which have more access to plant based foods.  There IS a difference in lifespan, but it's not huge.

Your statement also fails to recognize the environmental impact of eating local vs. non-local and the problems with crops that set out to destroy indigenous species and biosystems.

Recognizing that there are many factors in diets is a big part of reducing disease and global impacts.  There is no single answer.

I was referring to the Blue Zones research, which identified the healthiest and longest lived populations from all across the globe and studied their lifestyles. The number one common denominator? A completely or mostly plant-based diet.

[Selkie]

52 minutes ago, ScoutTN said:

I have wondered about this.

I also wonder about the differences between how factory farmed meat differs from pastured/grass fed in the human body over decades. 

I heard an interesting comment about this from Dr. Alan Desmond, a gastroenterologist from Ireland. He said that there are no factory farms or feedlots in Ireland, and essentially all the animals are pasture-raised and grass fed. Yet the Irish are still plagued with the same high rates of animal protein-related disease as Americans who eat factory farmed meat. His conclusion was that grass fed meat is no different than factory farmed meat when it comes to negative effects on human health.

[Idalou]

No. I went inside a huge chicken farm and seeing the mass number of sad, psychotic chickens cured me of wanting that. I visited a large veal barn and regretted every bite of meat I've swallowed. I am not to the point of rejecting fish, but feel that it is close.

[wintermom]

40 minutes ago, Selkie said:

They are broad, sweeping statements because they are true in a broad, sweeping sense. It's not like there is only one type of animal protein that is bad for you, or one type of vegetable that is good for you. A plant-based diet is much healthier than an animal-based diet in a broad, sweeping sense, according to science. However, I realize that people do not like to hear bad news about things they enjoy, so I'm not surprised that you turned to a personal attack. 

This thread was intended to ask who loves meat. Clearly, you are straying from the topic of enjoying meat or not. Maybe you can open up your particular debate about what you believe are the health aspects of not eating meat on another thread, so as not to trample all over people answering and stating that they actually enjoy meat once in a while. I'll start another thread, "Do you love to exericse? Or not?" and trample on all the people who come in to state why they do or don't like to exercise. Such fun, don't you think - or are you not doing this for fun? 🙃

[Selkie]

5 minutes ago, wintermom said:

This thread was intended to ask who loves meat. Clearly, you are straying from the topic of enjoying meat or not. Maybe you can open up your particular debate about what you believe are the health aspects of not eating meat on another thread, so as not to trample all over people answering and stating that they actually enjoy meat once in a while. I'll start another thread, "Do you love to exericse? Or not?" and trample on all the people who come in to state why they do or don't like to exercise. Such fun, don't you think - or are you not doing this for fun? 🙃

OP brought up the health aspects of meat in her very first sentence.

[Selkie]

8 minutes ago, wintermom said:

This thread was intended to ask who loves meat. Clearly, you are straying from the topic of enjoying meat or not. Maybe you can open up your particular debate about what you believe are the health aspects of not eating meat on another thread, so as not to trample all over people answering and stating that they actually enjoy meat once in a while. I'll start another thread, "Do you love to exericse? Or not?" and trample on all the people who come in to state why they do or don't like to exercise. Such fun, don't you think - or are you not doing this for fun? 🙃

If you would rather not hear me talk about evidence-based science, feel free to put me on ignore.

[Indigo Blue]

I have a texture problem with meat, BUT I also think plant-based diets are healthy. I say this only because the science is there to support that. Having said that, people are free to eat as they wish. It’s interesting to hear of the ways that people from other countries view vegetarian diets as compared to ours. In my opinion, it would be great if we consumed/slaughtered less meat. However, I don’t think this is going to happen anytime soon, if ever, and that’s the reality. Well, except there is some change because of the introduction of fake meat, more awareness, and people rethinking plant based eating. But, still, it would take a lot more change to make that the new normal. In the meantime, I don’t judge what other individual people eat, even if, at the same time, I would hope for less meat consumption overall. 

I don’t think anyone in this thread is judging, and I do think it’s okay and perhaps helpful to discuss it because the science is there. No one needs to be upset about that, really. I would just like to be able to discuss this without feeling like I’m being arrogant about it. I’m not at all, but I do still feel that it can be and is a healthy way of eating. And it’s interesting to talk about it and hear other posters describe what it’s like in their country.

I give grace on this because, goodness knows, I’ve had to deal with so much from people because I DON’T eat meat. I’ve learned from that, but at the same time still hope for change. That’s fair enough. 

[annandatje]

 As child and young adult, I ate very little meat because of its texture.  Married an omnivore.  I do consider myself a regular meat eater but I prefer a quite small amount of meat in proportion to bread for sandwich.  When I prepare pot roast, typically only have one small chunk meat with large serving of the vegetables.  In short, I tend to view meat as more of a condiment than a main course.  When I eat meat, I need some sort of seasoning and flavoring such as teriyaki to make it more palatable.  Although I prepare an elaborate Thanksgiving feast, I seldom ever even taste the turkey.  I strongly dislike turkey whether fresh or frozen.

[Lillyfee]

Speaking for Germany, being Vegetarian is very popular and nothing special anymore especially for women for some reason. Restaurants and even fast food restaurants adjusted to it and offer lots of Vegetarian options.

It's only recommended to eat meat once a week.

[Jenny in Florida]

100% no for me. I always disliked most meat, even as a kid. I was one of those who would eat meat only when it was cooked to that point that nothing oozed.

Once I read Charlotte's Web and really had to face the idea that meat was dead animals, I was on my way to becoming the vegan I have been for most of my adulthood.

I also don't like meat analogues. Since I didn't particularly like meat before and have negative associations with the idea of it, I have no interest in eating something designed to look and taste like it.

I do occasionally crave certain textures or flavors. Given my restrictive diet (partially the vegan thing, but also gluten free for health reasons), there's a lack of chewy, savory stuff. But that's as far as it goes.

Now, cheese? Yes, I still crave and miss cheese. I still don't bother with the fake ones, because I have yet to find one I think is worth eating. But I do definitely crave the real stuff.

[livetoread]

I think there has been pretty consistent data over many years that a plant based diet is healthiest for most people. I believe there are some people who don't do best on it, and I believe there are people who think they wouldn't but would if a few hurdles could be overcome. I believe in a few generations or less people will look back in horror at the meat industry and the suffering we caused because we liked meat and didn't want to think about how we get it. And I should add, I'm complicit in that because even though I don't eat meat or fish, I do eat eggs and dairy and there is plenty of suffering to go around in that industry too. It weighs heavier on me, the more I think about it and I'm trying, little by little, to move plant based. It's hard though when I really like something like feta cheese. Is that reason enough for cows/sheep to suffer? Not in my mind, but I still haven't made the commitment. 

[Pam in CT]

I don't LOVE it.

I do prepare/ eat chicken and fish and rarely-as-a-treat lamb and even-more-rarely-beef when I'm among family members or guests who like it; and I prepare/ eat vegetarian when I'm among the vegetarian family members or friends.  If I'm all by myself I will never prepare meat, though I might dip into already-prepared leftovers.

I've been varying degrees of anemic all my life, but have never CRAVED meat.  As I've gotten older I actually do crave dried fruit, which perhaps (?) is related? Anyway I manage the anemia with other foods and supplements and medicinal quantities of orange juice that supposedly (?) helps absorption of the supplements.

 

What I LOVE is cheese of almost any type, bread of almost any type, nuts of almost any type, thick greek yogurt, and mint tea.  Those (and coffee) are the things I would reeeeeeeallly suffer if I had to give up. I eat fish/ chicken/ lamb, but would not suffer really at all if for some reason I had to give it up.

[Lillyfee]

3 minutes ago, livetoread said:

I think there has been pretty consistent data over many years that a plant based diet is healthiest for most people. I believe there are some people who don't do best on it, and I believe there are people who think they wouldn't but would if a few hurdles could be overcome. I believe in a few generations or less people will look back in horror at the meat industry and the suffering we caused because we liked meat and didn't want to think about how we get it. And I should add, I'm complicit in that because even though I don't eat meat or fish, I do eat eggs and dairy and there is plenty of suffering to go around in that industry too. It weighs heavier on me, the more I think about it and I'm trying, little by little, to move plant based. It's hard though when I really like something like feta cheese. Is that reason enough for cows/sheep to suffer? Not in my mind, but I still haven't made the commitment. 

That's what I think. With basic human values you can not support the normal meat industry that produces the cheap meat than completely ignoring what's going on there. Animals being raised in masses under bad circumstances and killed for us to eat.

I do appreciate people that hunt or raise their own meat respectfully because it's more  honest for me than buying the cheap package of meat and blending out what it actually is.

 

[DreamerGirl]

Not sure about crave, but I grew up eating meat and vegetables cooked together and they enhanced the taste of each other. For instance, bitter gourd is very good for you, but we would not eat it as children. But mix it with a bit of goat meat and it pretty much became one of the favorite dishes of generations of kids in my family including mine and nieces and nephews.

We cook meat and vegetables together in different ways, as side dishes, curries and stir fries. Beans are also a part of it. It keeps portion sizes of meat consumed less and stretches the meal. Also certain vegetable and meat combos are *chefs kiss* 

I was always taught that an animal gave it's life for us to have meat, so do not take it lightly and to consume not just meat, but offal too. We tried to use as much part of the animal as we could in my family of origin. So stock made from meat or seafood was always a thing. Some parts we still eat like hoof and liver in our home now. And I always, always make stock from meat or fish because I can still hear my grandmother's voice saying an animal gave it's life for us to have meat. My grandmother's generation was taught to slaughter chicken especially so she was always cognizant that it was a life we take to feed ourselves and we must be grateful for that. We eat halal meat mostly and the animal is slaughtered by saying a prayer over it first. I am conflicted about a lot of this and the ethics of eating meat in general, but as of now  we try to follow this motto of "eat food, not too much, mostly plants". I love vegetables and believe in eating the rainbow. But I also think meat in moderation is part of a balanced diet.

I don't know enough about meat substitutes. 

[Amethyst]

I never like a slab of meat, even as a child. By "slab of meat" I mean: pork chop, steak, roast beef. Very unappealing. I prefer my meat disguised in casseroles, or in meatloaf or meatball. Dress it up somehow. 

As an adult I found out that I didn't have to eat it, so I rarely do.

[Elizabeth86]

I LOVE ground beef, steak, roasts, COW lol and bacon.  I could never eat any other meat and that would be ok.   Besides beef I prefer foods like beans, eggs, nuts/nutbutter and avocados over all the other meats.  I'd be more likely to not eat meat if I wasn't married to a complete carnivore.  He is ok if meat is the only thing on his plate. 

[Spryte]

I don’t love it. I was vegetarian from 16 - 30, and could pretty easily go back to that. Not vegan, I like dairy and eggs too much.

We have enough medical food restrictions in our house that I can’t add anything voluntary at this point. 

[Ting Tang]

Well, I do enjoy it after it has been cooked and prepared.  One thing I absolutely hate, though, is the meat section of the grocery store.  It feels repulsive to me.  It's very weird, I know!  But perhaps I could do with a lot less.  I am married to a hunter, so a lot of our meat is processed by a specialty meat market, and I don't have to deal with anything but cooking and eating it.  

[Kassia]

I don't eat meat.  DH and two of my three (grown) kids do.  Ds3 is vegan.  I'm always mildly anemic but I think I was before I stopped eating meat.  I don't like the idea of eating it but it doesn't bother me if others do.  I love dairy, eggs, peanut butter, and I eat too much junk.

 

[gardenmom5]

Some kinds of meat i like the flavor.

I feel much better getting protein from meat than plant based protein.  And I feel better eating beef vs eating chicken.

[Loowit]

I grew up in a meat and potatoes family.  Most of our meat was from stuff my dad and brother got hunting/fishing or from my great-uncle's farm where he raised cattle (who lived a very happy life on a nice big farm).  We don't have that option now, but I do still have meals with meat most nights.

I would not do well on a vegetarian diet.  There are too many vegetables that make me gag.  I have tried many ways of preparing them, disguising them, etc. trying to get them into my diet and it was a no go.  We also have food restrictions due to food allergies and intolerance so that limits our choices even more.

There are times when I am anemic that I do crave meat, but I haven't for a while now.  I will admit that I like meat.  I would have a hard time giving it up,

[heartlikealion]

It varies for me. And when I have tried to give up meat I found myself craving it and feeling like my body needed it (how true that is, I don't know, but eating another refried bean burrito didn't cut it). 

I am not drawn to the fake meat products as my main motivation for a vegetarian product is health... and those things in the freezer section are just processed junk. Not to say I don't eat any processed junk LOL. Now a fake meat item on a fast food menu? I wouldn't know how they taste because I'm too cheap to order them. They are always $$$. 

[Ann.without.an.e]

I don't love meat but I need it. I was vegan for 2 years, but I have so many food allergies (and gained more during that time) that taking the meat out is really difficult. Younger DD was vegetarian from age 5-17. She had to add in meat because she was severely anemic and her health was declining. Adding meat back to her diet was life changing for her. I wish I could be vegan, but I can't

Edited June 10, 2022 by Ann.without.an.e

[Selkie]

17 minutes ago, heartlikealion said:

I am not drawn to the fake meat products as my main motivation for a vegetarian product is health... and those things in the freezer section are just processed junk. Not to say I don't eat any processed junk LOL. Now a fake meat item on a fast food menu? I wouldn't know how they taste because I'm too cheap to order them. They are always $$$. 

Re. the bolded, it depends on the brand. There are plenty of meat replacement products that are made only from whole food ingredients like legumes, whole grains, and veggies. Even the more processed ones are still better than meat from a health standpoint, because they don't contain animal protein or the hormones, antibiotics, or dangerous bacteria (like e coli) that are commonly found in meat (or the mercury that is found in seafood or the pus that is found in dairy products, etc.)

[wintermom]

1 hour ago, Selkie said:

If you would rather not hear me talk about evidence-based science, feel free to put me on ignore.

You're picking out one piece of the puzzle on human health and disease prevention and attaching heavy weight to it, which is the bias I'm pointing out. There is plentiful scientific evidence that several factors affect disease prevention, including physical activity, smoking, body weight/composition, sleep, stress, regular health screenings, and diet (mayoclinic.org). 

[skimomma]

I hated eating meat as a kid!  I had this weird thing where I would chew meat, usually beef or pork, and it would be bigger and tougher in my mouth, and I could not bring myself to swallow it.  Chicken was just stringy and icky to me.  And fish was an absolute no go right off the bat.  I realize now that much of that was poor preparation.......what kind of a MONSTER just microwaves the crap out of a slab of ham and serves it as "food?"  I spent many a childhood evening sitting at the kitchen table with a plate of congealed meat in front of me until bedtime because I just could not force myself to eat it.  Shortly after I left home, I became vegetarian and have not looked back.  I have never ever craved it or missed it in any way with the single exception of real Texas BBQ.....which I do remember fondly.

Does anyone else know what I am talking about with the chewing, getting bigger and tougher thing?  I feel like I am somehow making this up in my head or something.  I am sure it was also exasperated by my attempts to get rid of the meat faster by taking too-big bites.

I also don't really enjoy the fake meats but do find myself eating them occasionally when that is the only vegetarian thing on the menu or when a well-meaning host serves it.  I *do* enjoy a homemade veggie burger that is not trying to taste like meat because, darn it, I want to have something fun to eat at a cookout just like everyone else.  Mine are lentil and walnut based and taste nothing like meat.

I am not nor have I ever been anemic. 

[dsmith]

I don't love it, but I used to. I find it sits in my gut when I eat it, which is rare. I also believe it increases cancer risk. My brother died of esophageal cancer, my mother of lung cancer (not from smoking). One of the reasons I eat mostly WFPB is to lower my risk of cancer. I do eat animal products on occasion - my husband is an excellent cook and makes a few things that I find hard to resist. When I was pregnant (a long time ago!!) I craved red bloody meat. I was anemic, so once that was addressed I didn't have the cravings anymore. I stopped worrying about protein after reading The China Study. I usually come in at 10% and that works for me. Since changing my diet I rarely have palpitations, my blood pressure is down, my cholesterol is down, I rarely have heartburn, my resting heart rate is down, I sleep better and have less aches and pains. 

[Lillyfee]

It's funny that you find completely different studies in the US and German resources when it comes to iron in Vegetarians.

US: Vegetarians suffer more often from iron deficits 

Germany: in industrial nations Vegetarians do not suffer more often from iron deficits than meat eaters, only their iron storage is in general slightly lower

[Spy Car]

3 minutes ago, skimomma said:

I hated eating meat as a kid!  I had this weird thing where I would chew meat, usually beef or pork, and it would be bigger and tougher in my mouth, and I could not bring myself to swallow it.  Chicken was just stringy and icky to me.  And fish was an absolute no go right off the bat.  I realize now that much of that was poor preparation.......what kind of a MONSTER just microwaves the crap out of a slab of ham and serves it as "food?"  I spent many a childhood evening sitting at the kitchen table with a plate of congealed meat in front of me until bedtime because I just could not force myself to eat it.  Shortly after I left home, I became vegetarian and have not looked back.  I have never ever craved it or missed it in any way with the single exception of real Texas BBQ.....which I do remember fondly.

Does anyone else know what I am talking about with the chewing, getting bigger and tougher thing?  I feel like I am somehow making this up in my head or something.  I am sure it was also exasperated by my attempts to get rid of the meat faster by taking too-big bites.

I also don't really enjoy the fake meats but do find myself eating them occasionally when that is the only vegetarian thing on the menu or when a well-meaning host serves it.  I *do* enjoy a homemade veggie burger that is not trying to taste like meat because, darn it, I want to have something fun to eat at a cookout just like everyone else.  Mine are lentil and walnut based and taste nothing like meat.

I am not nor have I ever been anemic. 

Sounds like the meat you experienced was badly prepared.

Either significantly over-cooked in the case of lean cuts which leaves them stringy and chewy, or undercooked in the case of tough cuts which need to braisse, roast, or BBQ that need to go long enough that the collagen becomes soft. Texas BBQ would be an example of the latter.

Sorry that this puts a judgement on whoever was doing the cooking. 

Bill

 

 

[ktgrok]

3 hours ago, ScoutTN said:

I have wondered about this.

I also wonder about the differences between how factory farmed meat differs from pastured/grass fed in the human body over decades. 

There definitely is a difference in the fatty acid composition. Grass fed and finished beef has way more omega 3s than that of cows fed grain. VERY different. 

 

[Jaybee]

10 minutes ago, skimomma said:

Does anyone else know what I am talking about with the chewing, getting bigger and tougher thing?

I felt this way about steaks, when my parents cooked/grilled them (and my mom was a great cook, generally). My jaws would get tired and it lost all flavor. When I was an adult and tried steak in a restaurant, it was delicious, and that is what I occasionally crave. However, last week we ate at a restaurant that offered a taco salad with beef. That meat was similar to what you are talking about, and it was very unappetizing to me.

[skimomma]

1 minute ago, Jaybee said:

I felt this way about steaks, when my parents cooked/grilled them (and my mom was a great cook, generally). My jaws would get tired and it lost all flavor. When I was an adult and tried steak in a restaurant, it was delicious, and that is what I occasionally crave. However, last week we ate at a restaurant that offered a taco salad with beef. That meat was similar to what you are talking about, and it was very unappetizing to me.

Yeah, this was most common in steak, pot roast, and pork chops.  My jaw would get tired, the flavor dissipated, and it somehow expanded in size.

[Jaybee]

8 minutes ago, Lillyfee said:

It's funny that you find completely different studies in the US and German resources when it comes to iron in Vegetarians.

US: Vegetarians suffer more often from iron deficits 

Germany: in industrial nations Vegetarians do not suffer more often from iron deficits than meat eaters, only their iron storage is in general slightly lower

Do people in Germany use iron cookware much? I ask because I had a friend who said that once she started cooking most things in iron skillets, her anemia disappeared. Just made me curious.

[skimomma]

7 minutes ago, Spy Car said:

Sounds like the meat you experienced was badly prepared.

Either significantly over-cooked in the case of lean cuts which leaves them stringy and chewy, or undercooked in the case of tough cuts which need to braisse, roast, or BBQ that need to go long enough that the collagen becomes soft. Texas BBQ would be an example of the latter.

Sorry that this puts a judgement on whoever was doing the cooking. 

Bill

 

 

There is no question that the preparation was bad.  It's just weird to me that it seemed to get bigger as I chewed until I would almost choke.  I can vividly remember the terrible feeling 40 years later.

[alysee]

I have been a vegetarian for a year. It was an easy transition because I really didn't love meat. I always loved the vegetable sides. I am a Cheese lover though. I could live off vegetables and cheese. I also basically eat the same lunch everyday so I may just have a bland palette. 

[skimomma]

Just now, Jaybee said:

Do people in Germany use iron cookware much? I ask because I had a friend who said that once she started cooking most things in iron skillets, her anemia disappeared. Just made me curious.

Yes!

My dd, who is a life long vegetarian never had trouble with anemia, until she moved into the dorms.  Not only was she no longer getting iron-rich foods in general.....because dorm food sucks....but it was also not being cooked on iron like almost everything at home was.

[Kassia]

1 minute ago, skimomma said:

There is no question that the preparation was bad.  It's just weird to me that it seemed to get bigger as I chewed until I would almost choke.  I can vividly remember the terrible feeling 40 years later.

I had this issue with some meats.  My mother was big on having to eat whatever was served and I would get in trouble if I gagged.  It was awful.  

[skimomma]

Just now, Kassia said:

I had this issue with some meats.  My mother was big on having to eat whatever was served and I would get in trouble if I gagged.  It was awful.  

Ugh.  Me too.  Until I was 14, I was required to drink a glass of milk with dinner.  Sometimes powdered.  I always hated milk and I always had stomach problems.  Turns out I am extremely lactose intolerant.  I would have to pinch my nose to get it down.  It was not a choice.  We would also be required to eat some minimum amount of each thing served....hence the meat.  My parents grew up very poor and just could not fathom being "picky."  Ironically, I am not picky at all.  I will eat almost anything non-meat.  I was an adult before I learned that veggies taste great when not microwaved into goo, salads can be more than sad iceberg lettuce, and that there was a whole world of spices outside of salt and pepper.

My parenting did still emphasize not wasting food but I also never required anyone to eat anything they did not like.

[heartlikealion]

27 minutes ago, Selkie said:

Re. the bolded, it depends on the brand. There are plenty of meat replacement products that are made only from whole food ingredients like legumes, whole grains, and veggies. Even the more processed ones are still better than meat from a health standpoint, because they don't contain animal protein or the hormones, antibiotics, or dangerous bacteria (like e coli) that are commonly found in meat (or the mercury that is found in seafood or the pus that is found in dairy products, etc.)

My limited exposure to the fake meat products was some time back when I used to eat Morning Star nuggets and Boca burgers. I don't buy much meat from the frozen section these days and I buy this chicken. Is it the best quality? I'm sure Whole Foods etc have better, but it's one of the better ones around me and doesn't break the bank. 

I do limit my seafood because of mercury. And I have a love/hate relationship with dairy and was preached about avoiding dairy for many, many years lol. My dad told us (before it was mainstream) about the misleading "milk = calcium" message and pointed out that we're the only mammals that drink another mammal's milk (I don't think he was thinking of times when say a dog nurses an abandoned kitten). I am lactose sensitive but some things don't bother me like Greek yogurt. And for cooking, I don't like using dairy milk substitutes. But for cereal, sometimes I do. I've had rice milk, hemp milk, soy milk, almond milk, cashew milk and oat milk. I don't like half of them. 

[Spy Car]

16 minutes ago, skimomma said:

There is no question that the preparation was bad.  It's just weird to me that it seemed to get bigger as I chewed until I would almost choke.  I can vividly remember the terrible feeling 40 years later.

I understand what you are describing. I learned to cook as a child partially out of self-defence 

Sorry mom. I loved you anyway.

Bill

[Selkie]

26 minutes ago, wintermom said:

You're picking out one piece of the puzzle on human health and disease prevention and attaching heavy weight to it, which is the bias I'm pointing out. There is plentiful scientific evidence that several factors affect disease prevention, including physical activity, smoking, body weight/composition, sleep, stress, regular health screenings, and diet (mayoclinic.org). 

Of course those things matter, but there is no denying that studies which have been ongoing for decades show that what you put in your mouth 3+ times a day is of critical importance to your health.

Interesting that you mention smoking, because scientists and doctors involved with these studies refer to animal protein as the new cigarettes. They say we are at the same point with meat (and other animal products) that we were with cigarettes in the 1960s - meaning that it has become evident that it is a health hazard, but that most people either don't know that or have their heads in the sand.

One thing that most people do not know is that the World Health Organization has classified processed meat (bacon, ham, sausage, hot dogs, deli meat) as a Group 1 carcinogen, which means it is known to cause cancer. It is pretty scary that processed meat is in the same category as tobacco and asbestos.

Other types of meat are classified as Group 2 carcinogens, which means they are a probable cause of cancer. 

[heartlikealion]

3 minutes ago, Selkie said:

Of course those things matter, but there is no denying that studies which have been ongoing for decades show that what you put in your mouth 3+ times a day is of critical importance to your health.

Interesting that you mention smoking, because scientists and doctors involved with these studies refer to animal protein as the new cigarettes. They say we are at the same point with meat (and other animal products) that we were with cigarettes in the 1960s - meaning that it has become evident that it is a health hazard, but that most people either don't know that or have their heads in the sand.

One thing that most people do not know is that the World Health Organization has classified processed meat (bacon, ham, sausage, hot dogs, deli meat) as a Group 1 carcinogen, which means it is known to cause cancer. It is pretty scary that processed meat is in the same category as tobacco and asbestos.

Other types of meat are classified as Group 2 carcinogens, which means they are a probable cause of cancer. 

That's interesting. So I googled because I wanted to know what about the meat is carcinogenic... it's the nitrates. You can buy nitrate-free products, at least for some. When I was pregnant I did sometimes eat nitrite-free deli meat. 

[Corraleno]

21 minutes ago, skimomma said:

Until I was 14, I was required to drink a glass of milk with dinner.  Sometimes powdered.  I always hated milk and I always had stomach problems.  Turns out I am extremely lactose intolerant.  I would have to pinch my nose to get it down.  It was not a choice.  We would also be required to eat some minimum amount of each thing served....hence the meat.  My parents grew up very poor and just could not fathom being "picky."  Ironically, I am not picky at all.  I will eat almost anything non-meat.  I was an adult before I learned that veggies taste great when not microwaved into goo, salads can be more than sad iceberg lettuce, and that there was a whole world of spices outside of salt and pepper.

I think we have the same mother, lol. We had the same rule about drinking milk (which was often "stretched" with powdered milk) with dinner (gag), and I vividly remember the "bubblegum" meat we were forced to eat, that no mater how much you chewed it remained a single unswallowable blob. I used to pretend to wipe my mouth with a napkin, spit the wad of meat-gum into the napkin, and then discreetly drop it on the floor for the dog. Veg were overcooked to the point of mush and "salad" was iceberg lettuce with green bell pepper, cucumber, and tomato, slathered with goopy bottled "French dressing." No spices except salt and pepper. She tried to get fancy once and made a "salad" she saw in a magazine which was basically shredded cabbage and grated carrots with a mayonnaise-based coleslaw dressing mixed with lime jello and poured in a pan until set. I called it "Dumpster Wiggle."

ETA: Once when I was visiting family in the area as an adult, my mother invited me and my then-boyfriend over for dinner and said she was making "chicken curry." This was her version of "chicken curry": dump a bag of frozen broccoli in a roasting pan, put chicken breasts on top, then mix mayonnaise with about a teaspoon of curry powder and spread that over the chicken. Bake until the broccoli is grayish-green goo and the chicken is stringy and dry. 

Edited June 10, 2022 by Corraleno

[Clarita]

Do I crave meat? No. Can I enjoy meat? Yes. Foods I crave are called carbs. 

Our family really likes to enjoy food with one another. Food is definitely not just sustenance for us. Every vacation I've planned with my husband has surrounded the food schedule, like we look up the food we would like to have at a destination and the rest of the trip is planned around that. 

I've tried some fake meat. Every time I think it's pretty yummy at the sample station, then I bring it home and it's meh. I do make a beet burger from scratch that's pretty yummy but it mostly tastes like roasted beet, which we do like as a family.

I also don't like milk substitutes. I like those drinks before they are made into milk substitutes, but it seems like they add a thickener or something to make them into milk substitutes, those ruin the original drink that I do like. 

[heartlikealion]

Oh gosh don't make me look up nitrite vs nitrate as I'm realizing I had a typo and don't know which ones are in which products. They're both bad, though. 

[Spy Car]

4 minutes ago, heartlikealion said:

That's interesting. So I googled because I wanted to know what about the meat is carcinogenic... it's the nitrates. You can buy nitrate-free products, at least for some. When I was pregnant I did sometimes eat nitrite-free deli meat. 

Hate to inform you, but most processed meats that claim to be uncured, natural, or "no nitrates added*," actually use celery juice or celery salt combined with lactic acid to create just as many (or more) nitrates as what other processors use from the lab.

It is a fraud on the consumer, and totally legal under our food labeling laws.

Bill

 

[heartlikealion]

Just now, Spy Car said:

Hate to inform you, but most processed meats that claim to be uncured, natural, or "no nitrates added*," actually use celery juice or celery salt combined with lactic acid to create just as many (or more) nitrates as what other processors use from the lab.

It is a fraud on the consumer, and totally legal under our food labeling laws.

Bill

 

They say "except those naturally occurring like in celery" so I'm confused... aren't the "naturally occurring" ones ok? 

[MercyA]

1 hour ago, Selkie said:

Re. the bolded, it depends on the brand. There are plenty of meat replacement products that are made only from whole food ingredients like legumes, whole grains, and veggies. 

Yes. Original Sunshine Burgers, for example, only contain brown rice, ground raw sunflower seeds, carrots, chives, and salt. They don't taste like meat but they're not supposed to. 🙂