Cats

[Ting Tang]

My husband will usually wear a mask to appease me. He was asked to join a commission, and I knew nobody would  mask at the meeting, so of course he followed their lead. We’ve argued about this. I originally was told it was a commission meeting of 4, but it ended up being a township meeting of 10.  He says nobody masks anymore and thinks I’m too strict. He thinks the kids should go back to the crummy school for socialization. (I signed my daughter up for dance because it does follow strict precautions. But he is not supportive of organized activities where they could socialize.) Slap in the face for regard to how I feel about safety and education. He will make sure everyone else is happy before I am, and I am just done. Never took my side before, never will. I’d be screwed outside of this marriage and don’t have family of my own to support me. He always says we are bad parents, by that he means me, so sometimes I think it’d be best if he divorced me and raised the kids himself. That way I can stop feeling crappy all the time.

Edited February 3, 2022 by Ting Tang

[MercyA]

I'm so sorry you're feeling badly about yourself. I don't know you well, but I think your posts show a lot of discernment and wisdom. I enjoy hearing your point of view. 

You're not too strict. We're still in a pandemic that's killing people every day.

COVID is definitely driving wedges between people, but I'm praying that your marriage will survive it.

[desertflower]

Oh I'm so sorry.  You are not alone.  I hope you guys can get past this and any other obstacles that come your way.  Sending hugs. 

[Syllieann]

I'm so sorry you're dealing with this. There's definitely been a theme in your posts that shows his lack of consideration for your feelings.  You sound like a great mom though-that much has been obvious repeatedly.  Hugs.

[Clarita]

I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry your efforts and care aren't appreciated.

[Ting Tang]

1 hour ago, MercyA said:

I'm so sorry you're feeling badly about yourself. I don't know you well, but I think your posts show a lot of discernment and wisdom. I enjoy hearing your point of view. 

You're not too strict. We're still in a pandemic that's killing people every day.

COVID is definitely driving wedges between people, but I'm praying that your marriage will survive it.

 

55 minutes ago, desertflower said:

Oh I'm so sorry.  You are not alone.  I hope you guys can get past this and any other obstacles that come your way.  Sending hugs. 

 

53 minutes ago, Syllieann said:

I'm so sorry you're dealing with this. There's definitely been a theme in your posts that shows his lack of consideration for your feelings.  You sound like a great mom though-that much has been obvious repeatedly.  Hugs.

 

52 minutes ago, Clarita said:

I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry your efforts and care aren't appreciated.

Thank you all. At this point, I appreciate the sentiments. I am praying for my own continued health and for my children’s. 

[mommyoffive]

I am so sorry.  I am sending you some hugs.  This pandemic has been so hard on marriages and relationships in general.   It is a huge weight and I am sorry that it is weighing so hard on your marriage and your heart.  

 

[rebcoola]

I am so sorry.   

[Ausmumof3]

I’m sorry. That does sounds rough. The pandemic has been really hard on relationships in general and I know a few people in the same situation.

[Arcadia]

2 hours ago, KrisTom said:

. He thinks the kids should go back to the crummy school for socialization. (I signed my daughter up for dance because it does follow strict precautions. But he is not supportive of organized activities where they could socialize.)

My husband’s original idea of homeschooling was using the online public charter school because its free. So whenever he whined about activities that isn’t free, it was just his way of not saying right out that he doesn’t think its worth spending and that we should look for free options. When we stop using the public charter, my parents gave me cash for homeschooling expenses. That ease the financial tension part of homeschooling. 
My husband is more safety and health conscious than me and more worried about education as well. However his family culture is to always go for the cheapest option so quite a few of our parenting arguments are about usage of money. 

[Kassia]

I'm so sorry.  What a difficult and stressful situation.  😞 I agree with the others that this pandemic has affected so many relationships.  We've had issues too and it's hard when you're the one who is trying so hard to be careful and others don't respect that.

[Laura Corin]

I'm sorry you are having to deal with this.

[JustEm]

I'm sorry. 

[regentrude]

I am sorry. This must be very hard. 

[MEmama]

((Hugs)).

Please know that you can use us as sounding board. The support here is unbelievable and there are others who have been in your shoes and can offer commiseration.

I’m so sorry you are going through this. You are NOT being too strict or too careful— do not allow him to gaslight you any longer. Your posts show that you have a strong and convicted heart; we are here to help lift you up as you navigate this difficult time.

[Elizabeth86]

I’m so sorry. My husband is also anti vaccine, anti mask. I’ve been a stressed out he will get covid and die. My parents are in a fragile state health wise and it infuriates me that he has no respect for them. His own parents refuses to see him because he won’t mask/vaccinate. It’s a mess and I’m sorry you have to deal with this too.

[chiguirre]

OP, start making a plan to exit this situation. It will take a while to get to the point that you'll be financially secure enough to go, but it will be something to hold on to when you're feeling overwhelmed. 

Are you and your kids vaxxed? That would affect how willing I would be to go along with the no masking folly just to keep the peace and buy time.

The crummy school may be crummy, but it will give you time to develop job skills and build a resume. Sometimes crummy just has to be good enough for a while. 

You can do this!

[ShepCarlin]

Oh, I am so sorry. What a stressful situation. You are a good mom, looking out for your kids and your wellbeing. Hang in there.

[J-rap]

I'm really sorry.  This pandemic has shined a light into corners where character flaws and unhealthy opinions have been able to hide.  It's been disturbing to see them revealed.  Your dh sounds very negative about everything, maybe himself most of all, and he reflects it onto you.  I pray that you can see that you are a valuable, loving person who is trying hard to be a good mom.   Your kids need you.  I hope your dh wakes up.

[Pam in CT]

I'm sorry. Echoing others: COVID has revealed and split open all kinds of fault lines that were already there, both within marriages/ families and across society writ large.

Holding you in the light as you navigate.

[Grace Hopper]

And it’s not just covid. The adjunct issues of religious and political convictions are all tangled together. It’s a royal mess. Even the best of marriages have likely experienced stress. A couple who may once have been tight, “you and me against the world,” have found themselves divided by the influence, needs and circumstances of one or the other’s family of origin, or their own adult children. Everyone has strong opinions about every facet of this cultural moment; few are ready and willing to take the come, let us reason together approach. It’s exhausting. 
 

OP, I am sorry you are suffering. But don’t heap guilt upon yourself. You are being the best mom you can be under extraordinarily crummy circumstances. 

[Catwoman]

I'm so sorry. You seem like such a nice person and you don't deserve such disrespectful and unkind treatment!!! 

[elegantlion]

I am so sorry. Believe in yourself and your abilities. 

[Ting Tang]

Thank you all so much. Things are not going well here at all.  Lots of fighting.  Yesterday after our fight he continued to play a video of honking horns from the Canadian trucker convoy.  This morning our computer is open to an article on "the dangerous momentum behind n95 respirators" and a thread from one of his forums on the increased health issues from vaccinations. 

He said yesterday he will probably stop masking.

If he were a boyfriend, the Internet would tell me to break up with him. 

I could find several articles myself that contradict what he says and finds from his two forums.  But it seems pointless.  

[Spryte]

I’m so sorry.
 

For your mental health — Can you just not engage with him on this? I would try to ignore open links and loud videos, since it’s leading to unproductive fights. 

 

Make sure you are vaccinated, mask when you can. In other words, control what you can.

[livetoread]

It is pointless, yes. I'd try and focus on other things that improve your mental health right now and let go of any idea of convincing/changing him. What brings you peace and contentment, even if briefly? What things outside of the marriage help you feel stronger? Put your energy there right now until things become clearer.

[Dianthus]

What is the dialogue like in your fights? Can you just avoid and say, "I'm tired of talking about covid. We have already discussed our comfort levels. You know how I feel."

And then I'd try to be positive and upbeat and say things like "after this surge, hopefully more things will go back to normal."

[Grace Hopper]

13 minutes ago, Spryte said:

I’m so sorry.
 

For your mental health — Can you just not engage with him on this? I would try to ignore open links and loud videos, since it’s leading to unproductive fights. 

 

Make sure you are vaccinated, mask when you can. In other words, control what you can.

I’d say nothing, but I would take screenshots and email them to an account of mine that he doesn’t have access to. 

[J-rap]

I am so sorry!

Can you talk with him and say you both will just agree to disagree?   So moving forward, the two of you will not discuss each other's choices (as far as Covid) in a disrespectful way.  (Meaning probably not talking about it at all anymore.)  But do require respect, and treat him with respect in return.  (For now...)    Can you focus on things that you have shared views on, instead?

As far as schooling...  What do your kids want to do?  I'm not sure if you gave an age.

I think in your gut, if he were a boyfriend, YOU (not just the Internet) would tell yourself to break up with him.  So you have to decide if you can get past this in your marriage.   I assume you've talked to him about counseling before? 

Agree 100% with livetoread that for now, put your energy and thoughts into something else that is more positive, until things become clearer.  And I think they will, with time.  It sounds like your dh has a lot of issues to work through, is immature, and is just reacting to emotions with no self-discipline.   Sometimes, people can be jolted out of that, or slowly see a glimmer of another way.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I would just "do you and let him do him" on this issue.  I know, that that's not really how a contagious disease works but you really have no other choice.  If you are vaccinated and boosted then mask etc. when out and just pray that your viral load if he brings it home won't be too bad.  (If you aren't vaccinated and boosted, I would do that.)  You mentioned before that you could get the kids vaccinated even though he is verbally against it?  I would do that then.   It's just another layer of protection for your household.  If you can't, then well, you can't.  As far as his behavior and attitudes, he's an adult.  You can't force him. 

[MEmama]

I’m so sorry. I hope you value yourself more than he does. Because he’s made it clear he does not. 😞 

I agree it’s pointless. He’s not going to change. Can you find a therapist as you navigate your next move? 

[Ting Tang]

I’m sorry it’s hard to reply individually  now.   He’s already said he feels I would exaggerate Covid if I get it and that it’s in people’s minds when they don’t do well with it. The worst thing is I do feel his behavior could impact our health. So it’s hard for me to just agree to disagree. I am vaxxed/boosted— kids are not. He believes what he believes and follows those sources, so there isn’t anything I can do. I’m not sure I can get past this. There are other things. But I should be happy he says because I have a new countertop and purebred dog… yeah…. It’d be hard for me to be on my own. I have no assets in my name— not a vehicle or the house, and haven’t had a full time job in 11 years. I do have a graduate degree, so I’m educated. There aren’t many opportunities in my field in this area. Not sure how to make this work, though. 

[Dianthus]

@KrisTom

I think it's good that your husband has been masking to this point. Even if he stops now, he's been masking through the worst stage and that's good and shows that he is trying to accommodate you. Since he doesn't believe covid is severe (in most cases it isn't) but has been masking, it seems like his mask wearing is to try to compromise with you. 

I'm sorry you're fighting like this. I've never been through that but it seems like if this is your biggest issue, it's something you can get through.  I would try to go make a pros and cons list and look for the good in your relationship and find ways you can have fun together, since it doesn't sound like that's happening. Counseling may also be a good idea.

[Faith-manor]

29 minutes ago, KrisTom said:

I’m sorry it’s hard to reply individually  now.   He’s already said he feels I would exaggerate Covid if I get it and that it’s in people’s minds when they don’t do well with it. The worst thing is I do feel his behavior could impact our health. So it’s hard for me to just agree to disagree. I am vaxxed/boosted— kids are not. He believes what he believes and follows those sources, so there isn’t anything I can do. I’m not sure I can get past this. There are other things. But I should be happy he says because I have a new countertop and purebred dog… yeah…. It’d be hard for me to be on my own. I have no assets in my name— not a vehicle or the house, and haven’t had a full time job in 11 years. I do have a graduate degree, so I’m educated. There aren’t many opportunities in my field in this area. Not sure how to make this work, though. 

Well, the one thing working in your favor is that so very many places are looking for employees, and having any degree is great, having a master's degree even if it is unrelated to the job opportunity can still be a huge plus. So if you are thinking that you would like to work toward independence so you feel less trapped, I think you probably could get a decent job and focus on only applying to places that are taking covid seriously.

[Jean in Newcastle]

37 minutes ago, KrisTom said:

I’m sorry it’s hard to reply individually  now.   He’s already said he feels I would exaggerate Covid if I get it and that it’s in people’s minds when they don’t do well with it. The worst thing is I do feel his behavior could impact our health. So it’s hard for me to just agree to disagree. I am vaxxed/boosted— kids are not. He believes what he believes and follows those sources, so there isn’t anything I can do. I’m not sure I can get past this. There are other things. But I should be happy he says because I have a new countertop and purebred dog… yeah…. It’d be hard for me to be on my own. I have no assets in my name— not a vehicle or the house, and haven’t had a full time job in 11 years. I do have a graduate degree, so I’m educated. There aren’t many opportunities in my field in this area. Not sure how to make this work, though. 

If you are in a community property state then it doesn't matter if the assets are specifically in your name.  (Someone correct me if I'm wrong on this.)  If your kids are in school, then you should be able to get a job even if it's not specifically in your field.  Start making some baby steps towards being independent.  Then no matter what you decide down the road, you have options. 

[Bootsie]

1 hour ago, KrisTom said:

Thank you all so much. Things are not going well here at all.  Lots of fighting.  Yesterday after our fight he continued to play a video of honking horns from the Canadian trucker convoy.  This morning our computer is open to an article on "the dangerous momentum behind n95 respirators" and a thread from one of his forums on the increased health issues from vaccinations. 

He said yesterday he will probably stop masking.

If he were a boyfriend, the Internet would tell me to break up with him. 

I could find several articles myself that contradict what he says and finds from his two forums.  But it seems pointless.  

I am sorry that you are in this tough position.  I agree that it is pointless to find articles that contradict what he is finding.  

There is no reason that you need to look at what he is reading on the computer.  I would try to ignore it as much as possible and not to attach any personal meaning to it.  If he is playing a video that you do not want to hear, go in another room, put on headphones, or take some other step to remove yourself from hearing it.

[scholastica]

It sounds like there were cracks in this relationship that have been opened wide due to the pandemic. The type of behavior you are describing belies a fundamental lack of respect for you. Please consider therapy for yourself. There are boundary setting techniques that you can learn that will preserve your dignity and his while you sort out whether you want this relationship long term and what your next steps are. He will likely react badly at first to you setting boundaries, but he may surprise you and want to change to make the marriage work. If not, he’s not someone you can have a healthy relationship with.

[Pam in CT]

re whose hot take matters

1 hour ago, KrisTom said:

...If he were a boyfriend, the Internet would tell me to break up with him. ...

Gently: how you believe hypothetical strangers on the internet hypothetically might respond to a different hypothetical situation really isn't relevant.

Even how *members of this WTM forum* actually do respond to *how you've characterized this situation* isn't relevant.

It can be very helpful to have a sounding board. Helpful sounding boards can help us "hear" the still small voices of our own hearts.

Helpful sounding boards are no substitute for either skilled therapy or your own judgment.

 

There's a long term and a near term. In the near term,

1 hour ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

I would just "do you and let him do him" on this issue.  I know, that that's not really how a contagious disease works but you really have no other choice.  If you are vaccinated and boosted then mask etc. when out and just pray that your viral load if he brings it home won't be too bad.  (If you aren't vaccinated and boosted, I would do that.)  You mentioned before that you could get the kids vaccinated even though he is verbally against it?  I would do that then.   It's just another layer of protection for your household.  If you can't, then well, you can't.  As far as his behavior and attitudes, he's an adult.  You can't force him. 

If you ordinarily are the point person/ logistics manager on the kids' medical needs, just get them vaccinated. And then do the best you can navigating your exposure risks and the kids'.

 

And then you have to work out the long term.  Marital counseling can help. You can't force him to go, but you can ask, with a sense of purpose and seriousness. If he refuses: that is data.

Good luck.

[Catwoman]

2 hours ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

If you are in a community property state then it doesn't matter if the assets are specifically in your name.  (Someone correct me if I'm wrong on this.)  If your kids are in school, then you should be able to get a job even if it's not specifically in your field.  Start making some baby steps towards being independent.  Then no matter what you decide down the road, you have options. 

I was wondering if she's in a community property state, as well. And if not, @KrisTom, why isn't your name on the house? Can you get your dh to add you to it? Do you have multiple cars? Why aren't any of them in your name?

I can understand that if you trusted him, you didn't think it was important to have your name on the titles of anything, but that's something to seriously reconsider for the future. 

I'm so sorry he's being so difficult and disrespectful. Honestly, in your shoes, I would stand up to him and say you're getting the kids vaccinated because you are afraid that his skepticism and lack of precautions puts them at too high a risk from Covid, and their health is what is most important.

[Ting Tang]

There were/are definitely cracks. I’ve always felt I came after his family, and now, I come after our local government and his forums. I go on the family vacation with all of his family every year and often feel ignored there.. Last year on a meal out, he sat by his parents instead of me and the kids. The waiter didn’t take our drink order. I thought maybe he ordered, but I didn’t know. I got yelled at for not flagging the waiter! I decided to say something about it in front of his family. One year I had to go two WEEKs after giving birth, bleeding, pumping… we left early after a fight. I have been going since 2010. Kids like it, but they’d like any place— just an example. I have repeatedly said I don’t want to go, including last year. So yeah, there are cracks. I’m not even sure about marriage counseling. I believe in it, just maybe not for us… sounds bad.   I’ll try to set more boundaries and not be bothered with his propaganda. I’m definitely thinking about how to co-exist with him in this small  house. 

Edited February 2, 2022 by KrisTom

[Catwoman]

Just now, KrisTom said:

There were/are definitely cracks. I’ve always felt I came after his family, and now, I come after our local government and his forums. I go on the family vacation with all of his family every year and often feel ignored there.. Last year on a meal out, he sat by his parents instead of me and the kids. The waiter didn’t take our drink order. I thought maybe he ordered, but I didn’t know. I got yelled at for not flagging the waiter! I decided to say something about it in front of his family. One year I had to go two WEEKs after giving birth, bleeding, pumping… we left early after a fight. I have been going g since 2010. Kids like it, but they’d like any place.just an example. I have repeatedly said I don’t want to go, including last year. So yeah, there are cracks. I’m not even sure about marriage counseling. I believe in it, just maybe not for us… sounds bad.   I’ll try to set more boundaries and not be bothered with his propaganda. I’m definitely thinking about how to co-exist with him in this small  house. 

Is there any reason why you can't just flat-out refuse to go on the family vacations? Why does he get to make all of the decisions for the family?

[Ting Tang]

1 minute ago, Catwoman said:

I was wondering if she's in a community property state, as well. And if not, @KrisTom, why isn't your name on the house? Can you get your dh to add you to it? Do you have multiple cars? Why aren't any of them in your name?

I can understand that if you trusted him, you didn't think it was important to have your name on the titles of anything, but that's something to seriously reconsider for the future. 

I'm so sorry he's being so difficult and disrespectful. Honestly, in your shoes, I would stand up to him and say you're getting the kids vaccinated because you are afraid that his skepticism and lack of precautions puts them at too high a risk from Covid, and their health is what is most important.

I believe I’m in that type of state. I have good credit but thought my student loan debt at the time would make the mortgage process hard. And he bought our last family vehicle alone after I had baby #4. I’ve owned my own cars in the past… two trade ins ago. 

[Ting Tang]

1 minute ago, Catwoman said:

Is there any reason why you can't just flat-out refuse to go on the family vacations? Why does he get to make all of the decisions for the family?

I should. I said last summer I wouldn’t. They decide for me. 

[regentrude]

4 minutes ago, KrisTom said:

I should. I said last summer I wouldn’t. They decide for me. 

How can they make you if you say you're not coming?

[Scarlett]

4 minutes ago, regentrude said:

How can they make you if you say you're not coming?

Not  @KrisTom but my experience is going is less drama than attempting to stay home.

[saraha]

11 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Not  @KrisTom but my experience is going is less drama than attempting to stay home.

Yup 

[Garga]

12 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Not  @KrisTom but my experience is going is less drama than attempting to stay home.

Me, too. Refusing to go would create DRAMA in the family.  It can be tricky to extract oneself from things like this, so I can see why the OP was loathe to do so.

[Ting Tang]

Yep— less drama. I also figure if he went with the kids, his mom and sister would end up caring for the kids, then that’d make me look bad. Did I mention I live next door to his parents? Seemed like an ok idea at the time (they moved in four months the after we did to the other house for sale). My husband also farms with his dad. Our lives are totally intermingled. You’d think my feelings would mean something, like why would a husband continue this trip? Nope. 

Edited February 2, 2022 by KrisTom

[Grace Hopper]

45 minutes ago, KrisTom said:

I should. I said last summer I wouldn’t. They decide for me. 

You are a grown woman! Decide for yourself! You don’t have to be rude about it, just calmly say you aren’t going. He can’t make you. 
 

When I’ve heard stories like this in the past, the husband wants the wife along so she can care for the kids while he…vacates. You deserve a vacation too. 
 

Also, his parents are complicit. You’ll get nowhere with them. 

[KSera]

8 minutes ago, KrisTom said:

Yep— less drama. I also figure if he went with the kids, his mom and sister would end up caring for the kids, then that’d make me look bad. Did I mention I live next door to his parents? Seemed like an ok idea at the time (they moved in four months the after we did to the other house for sale). My husband also farms with his dad. Our lives are totally intermingled. You’d think my feelings would mean something, like why would a husband continue this trip? Nope. 

Are your parents alive and do you see them?