CDC mask announcement (a new thread)

[happi duck]

The CDC announcement that vaccinated people no longer need to mask is continuing to bother me.  It bothers me because there is no way to know if unvaccinated people are also unmasked.  No vaccine is 100%, no young children are vaccinated, employees will be exposed...it matters!

I wish stores, museums etc. had said "the CDC announced that the unvaccinated must continue to mask indoors.  Since there is no way to know who is vaccinated we will continue to require masks in our stores."

I'm guessing the CDC can't sit on information but why didn't they use this as incentive?  "We're seeing the possibility of lifting mask mandates for those who are vaccinated.  Get vaccinated!"

In just under two weeks my whole household will be fully vaxxed.  I was so looking forward to going places safely and now that is dashed.  I trust the vaccine as *one* layer of protection.  This mask announcement takes away a layer...that everyone will be masked indoors.

[MEmama]

I *totally* agree.

 

[Jean in Newcastle]

Some of this depends on the state. The message in my state on local news quoting our governor and public health officials is that if we can get our vaccinated percentage to 70% then he will lift restrictions earlier. 
 

All stores I went to yesterday still had signs up asking for masks and everyone I saw had masks on. 
 

I personally will feel fine with the dual protection of a mask and vaccination even if those around me are unmasked and unvaccinated. Even with my immune problems I feel like that would protect me quite a bit. 

[Lawyer&Mom]

I also feel like the needs of parents of small children were completely ignored, which honestly hurts.  A lot has been asked of us during the pandemic, and this is the thanks we get. 

[1234]

I think for some of us it just doesn’t really change anything. My state hasn’t had a mask mandate since beginning of April, and even though some stores still “require” it I haven’t seen any actually enforce it. I was at Kroger this morning and only about half the shoppers were wearing one even though there are signs everywhere when you enter that it is a requirement. So many had a mask around their neck but weren’t wearing it because they were drinking their Starbucks. So, the CDC’s new guidance just doesn’t really change anything here. 
 

ETA: Only 40% of our population has been vaccinated so it’s obvious many more than have been vaccinated have chosen to go without masks. I have zero faith that my state will get anywhere near 70% of people vaccinated because so many here do not want to.

Edited May 16, 2021 by Joker2

[happi duck]

My state is going along with the CDC.  It feels like they want to be the bearers of "good" news.  

I wish every state was using a vaccination benchmark.  If 70% had at least one dose?  That would feel better.

Why didn't they at least announce "if cases go down and vaccinations go up over the next two weeks we'll consider lifting masks."?

[Dmmetler]

My county lifted the mask requirement as of yesterday, but has stated that it is in force if signage states that it is for that business, school, public building, etc. 

 

We did a few errands yesterday, and honestly, nothing had changed as far as masking. There were a few people unmasked (except at the tiny, privately owned video games store that has been extremely assertive in requiring mask wearing and only letting one group into the store at a time) in each place, but no more than there would have been a week ago. 

 

I am hoping that my suburb will leave masking in place for the public buildings  until kids can be vaccinated. It means I can't do recorder or WindStars classes yet, but I'm good with that if it protects my students. 

 

[Halftime Hope]

I was out running errands yesterday.  My state has not had a mask mandate in a long, long, time.  None of the stores have taken down their mask requirements signs, and nearly everyone was still masked. I literally only saw one person with a mask around her chin. 

It seems that people in major metro areas that have seen a lot of illness are still pretty cautious.  I would find it highly unlikely that all of those I saw were unvaxxed people abiding by the CDC's recommendation, since they were not vaxxed yet. 

 

[Kanin]

13 minutes ago, happi duck said:

I wish every state was using a vaccination benchmark.  If 70% had at least one dose?  That would feel better.

Why didn't they at least announce "if cases go down and vaccinations go up over the next two weeks we'll consider lifting masks."?

I think this would have been better, too. And then schools could have the same benchmark, which I think would motivate a lot of people that don't want their kids masking in schools. 

[catz]

I totally agree a bench mark of some kind would have been way better. Vaccination percentage is one good measure, our state is above 60% at one dose.  But I'd also like to see a 2nd layer of benchmark, like infection rate below .7, positivity below 3% (though maybe positivity gets harder because we'll be testing less).  Aren't there still places where ICU space is dear?  The ICU usage in my urban county is 90%.  

And since my young teen nephew just spent a week in the hospital w/covid related complications and is probably out of sports for 6 months or so I am super angry about just tossing kids that can't get vaccinated under the bus.  Would still like to see some numbers for pediatric hospitalization overages since covid started.

My city still confirmed mask mandate is in place which is good anyway but I'm not sure about the suburbs.  

[AbcdeDooDah]

39 minutes ago, Halftime Hope said:

I was out running errands yesterday.  My state has not had a mask mandate in a long, long, time.  None of the stores have taken down their mask requirements signs, and nearly everyone was still masked. I literally only saw one person with a mask around her chin. 

It seems that people in major metro areas that have seen a lot of illness are still pretty cautious.  I would find it highly unlikely that all of those I saw were unvaxxed people abiding by the CDC's recommendation, since they were not vaxxed yet. 

 

I posted in the kid thread that i was at Target  one day after the announcement and everyone was wearing masks. Yesterday at the grocery store no cashier was a wearing a mask. 

[Junie]

One of my dc suggested that stores should position greeters dressed as stormtroopers declaring: "I need to see your identification" to make sure that people who are unmasked are actually vaccinated. :)

[Dmmetler]

2 minutes ago, Junie said:

One of my dc suggested that stores should position greeters dressed as stormtroopers declaring: "I need to see your identification" to make sure that people who are unmasked are actually vaccinated. :)

And anyone who tries the Jedi mind trick is probably safe to let in.....

[Catwoman]

20 minutes ago, FuzzyCatz said:

I totally agree a bench mark of some kind would have been way better. Vaccination percentage is one good measure, our state is above 60% at one dose.  But I'd also like to see a 2nd layer of benchmark, like infection rate below .7, positivity below 3% (though maybe positivity gets harder because we'll be testing less).  Aren't there still places where ICU space is dear?  The ICU usage in my urban county is 90%.  

And since my young teen nephew just spent a week in the hospital w/covid related complications and is probably out of sports for 6 months or so I am super angry about just tossing kids that can't get vaccinated under the bus.  Would still like to see some numbers for pediatric hospitalization overages since covid started.

My city still confirmed mask mandate is in place which is good anyway but I'm not sure about the suburbs.  

I’m so sorry to hear about your nephew. 😞

I don’t understand how people aren’t concerned about their children contracting Covid. It makes no sense to me. This virus is still so new, and there is no way to predict the long term impact of even mild cases. 

[Spy Car]

1 hour ago, happi duck said:

The CDC announcement that vaccinated people no longer need to mask is continuing to bother me.  It bothers me because there is no way to know if unvaccinated people are also unmasked.  No vaccine is 100%, no young children are vaccinated, employees will be exposed...it matters!

I wish stores, museums etc. had said "the CDC announced that the unvaccinated must continue to mask indoors.  Since there is no way to know who is vaccinated we will continue to require masks in our stores."

I'm guessing the CDC can't sit on information but why didn't they use this as incentive?  "We're seeing the possibility of lifting mask mandates for those who are vaccinated.  Get vaccinated!"

In just under two weeks my whole household will be fully vaxxed.  I was so looking forward to going places safely and now that is dashed.  I trust the vaccine as *one* layer of protection.  This mask announcement takes away a layer...that everyone will be masked indoors.

With you 100%.

Bill

[Tree Frog]

We were at my dd's college graduation this weekend with my mom. Mom was excited that the mask mandate had been lifted. We all had to remind her it was only for vaccinated people. She's not vaccinated and wore her mask when she was with us, but I expect she'll stop wearing it.

We were in the elevator and I was masked. The older man told me I didn't need to wear a mask anymore. I told him that was only if we were vaccinated. He assured me he was, but it was a strange encounter. If I didn't want to wear my mask, I wouldn't.

[Hyacinth]

The idea of a benchmark would be helpful on several levels. For starters, it would keep the CDC from appearing political in their recommendations. It would also give Americans a concrete goal, which I think is more motivating than the current shame-and-blame approach too many are employing. 
 

ETA: What is the current understanding of the vaccination percentage for likely herd immunity? I see 70% mentioned a lot. 

Edited May 16, 2021 by Hyacinth

[AbcdeDooDah]

I know lots of vaxed people said they were going to continue masking. Do you think people assume you are an anti-vaxxer?

Edited May 16, 2021 by AbcdeDooDah

[MEmama]

2 minutes ago, AbcdeDooDah said:

I know lots of vaxed people said they were going to continue masking. Do you think people assume you are an anti-masker?

No.

I would assume anyone wearing a mask is taking all the precautions, and will continue to feel safer around them. 

[mlktwins]

My state (VA) is no longer requiring masks.  I went to the Honda dealership this morning to drop my van off at the service department.  There are now signs up saying if you are vaccinated, you are not required to wear a mask.  All of the service people I saw were not wearing a mask.  I was not comfortable at all.  I am fully vaccinated and I wore mine.  I don't care what others are doing.  And...my boys are not quite 16 so are not fully vaccinated yet.  They will continue wearing them inside as well.

Edited May 16, 2021 by mlktwins

[AbcdeDooDah]

8 minutes ago, MEmama said:

No.

I would assume anyone wearing a mask is taking all the precautions, and will continue to feel safer around them. 

I accidentally wrote anti-masker instead of vaxxer but I think you understood what i meant.

[Drama Llama]

None of the school districts in my area are back at 5 days a week of in person school for everyone who wants it.   Realistically, they won't be until social distancing requirements are dropped altogether which depends on numbers continuing to fall.  

I feel as though getting kids back into schools needs to be one of the very highest priorities for society.  Dropping mask requirements, or restrictions on indoor dining or recreation, before we achieve that goal, represents a very poor set of priorities.  

 

[Carrie12345]

29 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

I’m so sorry to hear about your nephew. 😞

I don’t understand how people aren’t concerned about their children contracting Covid. It makes no sense to me. This virus is still so new, and there is no way to predict the long term impact of even mild cases. 

I’ll be honest that I’m not HUGELY worried that my youngest might get it, but that’s mostly because I have the flexibility to keep his potential exposure really low, and he’s old enough to be cautious even on his own. (He kept a good distance playing on a playground yesterday without being told.). That said, I went through a LOT to keep him and the rest of the family from contracting it from his own positive father... so why in the world would I want to open up risk when it comes to randos out and about in the world.

Of course the internet commentors’ response is that my child should be the one sacrificing for their desires.

[I talk to the trees]

18 minutes ago, MEmama said:

No.

I would assume anyone wearing a mask is taking all the precautions, and will continue to feel safer around them. 

I hear you! I’m fully vaxed and I did attend an in-person knitting circle on Thursday afternoon on someone's screened porch, but I felt edgy the whole time because  all but one of the gals were unmasked. I know that the maskless ones are “fully vaccinated” but that doesn’t equate to “fully immune” or “incapable of transmitting.”  Thankfully, this group of gals has no problem with me continuing to mask around them, or if any of them do, they keep it to themselves. I’d feel better if they would mask too, though. 

[Spy Car]

50 minutes ago, AbcdeDooDah said:

I know lots of vaxed people said they were going to continue masking. Do you think people assume you are an anti-vaxxer?

No, I assume that anti-vaxers and anti-maskers largely form one cohort and they will cheat the requirement to mask because they are indifferent to human life and entirely unethical.

Many (most) vaxed people will continue to mask because we know that's it is better public health policy to mask until everyone has access to vaccines and the time for the vaccines to take hold.

It's simple.

Bill

 

[happi duck]

51 minutes ago, BaseballandHockey said:

None of the school districts in my area are back at 5 days a week of in person school for everyone who wants it.   Realistically, they won't be until social distancing requirements are dropped altogether which depends on numbers continuing to fall.  

I feel as though getting kids back into schools needs to be one of the very highest priorities for society.  Dropping mask requirements, or restrictions on indoor dining or recreation, before we achieve that goal, represents a very poor set of priorities.  

 

This is such a good point

[TCB]

1 hour ago, AbcdeDooDah said:

I accidentally wrote anti-masker instead of vaxxer but I think you understood what i meant.

Where I am anti-maskers and anti-vaxxers are one and the same lol! There has never been a mask mandate here, a huge proportion of the population have never worn a mask anywhere other than medical appointments- really the only place mask wearing has been enforced. Unfortunately many of my friends and acquaintances here fall in that category 😞

ETA - It never ceases to amaze me how different things are despite it all being the same country.

Edited May 16, 2021 by TCB

[Catwoman]

21 minutes ago, Spy Car said:

No, I assume that anti-vaxers and anti-maskers largely form one cohort and they will cheat the requirement to mask because they are indifferent to human life and entirely unethical.

Many (most) vaxed people will continue to mask because we know that's it is better public health policy to mask until everyone has access to vaccines and the time for the vaccines to take hold.

It's simple.

Bill

 

As much as I get angry with anti-vaxxers and anti-maskers because I disagree with them, I wouldn't go so far as to say that I think they are indifferent to human life. I think they just view the dangers of Covid far differently than I do.

I know a few families who are anti-vaxx and who don't think the virus is a big deal, and I strongly disagree with them about that... but I also acknowledge that these are the same people who would give you the shirt off their back if you needed it. They are kind and generous, and they do so much to help others, that I would never view them as being indifferent to human life. Of the people I know personally, one of these moms takes in stray animals, nurses them back to health, and finds them homes, and the other drives around every afternoon dropping off brown-bagged meals to the homeless people in her town. These are not cruel or inhuman people. 

As much as I want everyone to take the virus (and vaccination and masking and social distancing) seriously, I can't judge their entire character based on this one issue, no matter how serious it is. People are far too nuanced for that, and while there are some total jerks out there who I would agree have little regard for human life, I think most people do care, but they view the virus differently than we do. 

Again, that's not to say I'm not angry. It's not to say that I'm not incredibly disappointed in people. And it's not saying that I don't judge anyone based on their response to the virus. What I'm saying is that I'm trying my best to remember that there is more to people than whether or not they choose to get vaccinated or wear masks. (And it's hard to do that sometimes!!!)

[KeriJ]

I have been pro mask throughout.  And I can predict who will answer and generally what they will answer.  But I am still trying to get the logic of this. If vaccines truly work, then unmasking the vaccinated shouldn't be a big problem.  I know that is a simplistic reduction,  but it's a point I haven't seen explained to my satisfaction yet. 

[kokotg]

1 minute ago, KeriJ said:

I have been pro mask throughout.  And I can predict who will answer and generally what they will answer.  But I am still trying to get the logic of this. If vaccines truly work, then unmasking the vaccinated shouldn't be a big problem.  I know that is a simplistic reduction,  but it's a point I haven't seen explained to my satisfaction yet. 

1. Many people don't believe that people will be honest about their vaccine status. It will not only mean vaccinated people stop masking.

2. Kids can't be vaccinated yet. 

[KeriJ]

Just now, kokotg said:

1. Many people don't believe that people will be honest about their vaccine status. It will not only mean vaccinated people stop masking.

2. Kids can't be vaccinated yet. 

I have heard both of those, but it still doesn't make sense to me.  If I am vaccinated, then I won't be spreading it to the unvaccinated children.  As far as the first point,  that is a problem all its own. Those who would be dishonest have likely already been unmasked all along. I know many of them in real life.

[Hyacinth]

6 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

As much as I get angry with anti-vaxxers and anti-maskers because I disagree with them, I wouldn't go so far as to say that I think they are indifferent to human life. I think they just view the dangers of Covid far differently than I do.

I know a few families who are anti-vaxx and who don't think the virus is a big deal, and I strongly disagree with them about that... but I also acknowledge that these are the same people who would give you the shirt off their back if you needed it. They are kind and generous, and they do so much to help others, that I would never view them as being indifferent to human life. Of the people I know personally, one of these moms takes in stray animals, nurses them back to health, and finds them homes, and the other drives around every afternoon dropping off brown-bagged meals to the homeless people in her town. These are not cruel or inhuman people. 

As much as I want everyone to take the virus (and vaccination and masking and social distancing) seriously, I can't judge their entire character based on this one issue, no matter how serious it is. People are far too nuanced for that, and while there are some total jerks out there who I would agree have little regard for human life, I think most people do care, but they view the virus differently than we do. 

Again, that's not to say I'm not angry. It's not to say that I'm not incredibly disappointed in people. And it's not saying that I don't judge anyone based on their response to the virus. What I'm saying is that I'm trying my best to remember that there is more to people than whether or not they choose to get vaccinated or wear masks. (And it's hard to do that sometimes!!!)

Thank you for this.

[kokotg]

Just now, KeriJ said:

I have heard both of those, but it still doesn't make sense to me.  If I am vaccinated, then I won't be spreading it to the unvaccinated children.  As far as the first point,  that is a problem all its own. Those who would be dishonest have likely already been unmasked all along. I know many of them in real life.

I posted in the other thread but I think that, while there are plenty of people who are performative anti-maskers and want to make a show of it, there are plenty more who have been wearing masks to avoid confrontations, but will ditch them happily now that they're given cover. In my area there are no mask mandates (except in private businesses) but mask compliance is generally pretty good. We'll see if that changes now, but I'll be surprised if it doesn't. And the school district next door to me already did away with its mask mandate for "fully vaccinated" people. But they won't be asking for any verification of vaccination status. So there's nothing to stop older kids from lying about their vaccine status and taking masks off in full classrooms with kids not old enough to be vaccinated yet. 

[regentrude]

1 hour ago, AbcdeDooDah said:

I know lots of vaxed people said they were going to continue masking. Do you think people assume you are an anti-vaxxer?

I continue to mask. In my experience,  the antivaxxers and the antimaskers overlap to a large degree, and I find it much more likely that the masked person I encounter is a cautious vaccinated one, rather than an antivaxxer. We are at 25% vaccinated in our county. State has never had a mask mandate. I have zero trust in people here to be honest about their Vax status.

[Catwoman]

1 minute ago, KeriJ said:

I have heard both of those, but it still doesn't make sense to me.  If I am vaccinated, then I won't be spreading it to the unvaccinated children.  As far as the first point,  that is a problem all its own. Those who would be dishonest have likely already been unmasked all along. I know many of them in real life.

I think the problem some of us are having, is that we are worried because we have no way of knowing who is vaccinated and who isn't. If everyone has to wear a mask at Costco (or wherever,) vaccination status doesn't matter as much, but with no mask requirements, it matters more because we have no idea who is actually vaccinated and who is lying about it.

That's why I wish they had waited until a higher percentage of the population was vaccinated to make their masking recommendations. Sure, some people would still be unvaccinated and some would still lie about it, but the overall probability that the unmasked person next to me is unvaccinated would be a lot lower.

I always feel like I'm doing a lousy job of explaining my feelings about this. I do understand what you're saying, and I know it feels very unfair when people like me suggest that vaccinated people should still keep masking for a while longer. 

[kbutton]

3 hours ago, Lawyer&Mom said:

I also feel like the needs of parents of small children were completely ignored, which honestly hurts.  A lot has been asked of us during the pandemic, and this is the thanks we get. 

I can't imagine what the last year would've been like with young kids. I am so sorry.

1 hour ago, Hyacinth said:

The idea of a benchmark would be helpful on several levels.

We had a benchmark, but the governor's powers to use emergency orders expire June 2, I believe. The legislature stripped him of power. He vetoed, but the legislature had a big enough majority for the law to hold. The new legislation makes everything harder in all future emergencies as well, not just this one. The emergency orders expire June 2nd, I believe. 

[Drama Llama]

13 minutes ago, KeriJ said:

I have heard both of those, but it still doesn't make sense to me.  If I am vaccinated, then I won't be spreading it to the unvaccinated children.  As far as the first point,  that is a problem all its own. Those who would be dishonest have likely already been unmasked all along. I know many of them in real life.

If  there is a mask mandate, and I go to the grocery store, or church, and there is one person who a handful of people who are breaking the rules and unmasked, I can avoid them easily.  And store employees, or clergy, can also enforce easily.

If there's no mask mandate for unvaccinated people, then all of that becomes harder.  

But in addition, while we know that the vaccine cuts down infection and transmission, we know it doesn't eliminate it.  Since I believe that fully opening schools should be the #1 priority, I think that even a small bump to transmission levels is a bad thing. 

 

[Faith-manor]

OP, I am with you 100%. If you jump down to the church and masks thread, you can read about my experience today with this issue and the problem it caused for one community this morning.

 

[MEmama]

14 minutes ago, KeriJ said:

I have heard both of those, but it still doesn't make sense to me.  If I am vaccinated, then I won't be spreading it to the unvaccinated children.  As far as the first point,  that is a problem all its own. Those who would be dishonest have likely already been unmasked all along. I know many of them in real life.

Also, vaccination is just *one level* of protection, just as masks are. So it makes sense that while a pandemic is still raging (and it absolutely is), using multiple levels of protection—plus continuing to social distance—makes sense. 
 

Somewhere between 600,000-900,000 people in the US alone have already died, and countless more are experiencing potentially life long health complications as a direct result of COVID. Most of these occurred while people were supposed to be masking. Personally, I’d rather people are doing as much as they can to reduce the spread. 
 

Vaccinations—like masks—are never 100%. But if used en mass they certainly can be an effective tool in eradicating disease.

[elegantlion]

I'm going to assume that in my city those who are masked are still cautious and may be vaccinated. I will assume that 50% of those going unmasked will not be vaccinated. I'm going to continue avoiding people for a while, especially after reading local comments on Facebook for the last year. 

[Pawz4me]

30 minutes ago, KeriJ said:

I have been pro mask throughout.  And I can predict who will answer and generally what they will answer.  But I am still trying to get the logic of this. If vaccines truly work, then unmasking the vaccinated shouldn't be a big problem.  I know that is a simplistic reduction,  but it's a point I haven't seen explained to my satisfaction yet. 

I'm as pro-mask and pro-vaccine as anyone, and I'm also having a bit of a problem understanding the extent of the backlash against the CDC guidance.

Sure I get it for immune compromised people (I'm one of those, FWIW) and for people who for whatever sound medical reason can't be vaccinated. For people in that group it would absolutely be better if the mask mandate had been left in place until most areas had much higher percentages of vaccinated people.

And I totally get it about kids.

And those two categories are certainly NOT insignificant.

But still . . I can't fully wrap my head around the extent of the backlash. Perhaps I'm being naive in trusting the studies that are showing how very effective the vaccines are for most people, and how well they're preventing transmission. The arguments against dropping the mask mandate now to me mostly seem pretty circular. I'll almost certainly continue to mask in public, but I can't get too worked up over the mandate being dropped now.

[Danae]

28 minutes ago, KeriJ said:

I have heard both of those, but it still doesn't make sense to me.  If I am vaccinated, then I won't be spreading it to the unvaccinated children.  As far as the first point,  that is a problem all its own. Those who would be dishonest have likely already been unmasked all along. I know many of them in real life.

It makes sense if you think about populations rather than individuals.  Ultimately the only thing that is going to end the pandemic is driving the virus levels down to where there isn’t uncontrolled spread.  Vaccinations are a tool to accomplish that.  Masks are a tool to accomplish that. The CDC is betting that vaccinations are effective enough that the additional spread reduction from masking isn’t needed.  Hopefully they’re right.

 

[1234]

I’ve been fully vaccinated since last month and I just saw that only 38% of my age group is vaxxed in my state (that’s at least one shot). Anyone who wants to get a vaccine can easily get one here at this time so there is no way we would have ever kept restrictions until 70% are vaccinated. I think there are about 10 states that are doing worse than us as well. 

I don’t completely agree with lifting all the mask mandates (I was upset when ours ended in April) but I am confused what’s stopping other states from keeping it if they want, especially if some truly still haven’t been doing face to face school yet. Our school district has been in person full time since beginning of August so it’s not surprising to me that people here don’t care about any of the restrictions. 

I don’t know. I just know there are going to be several states that probably never hit that 70%, or whatever, number of vaccinated people that some want so I never assumed that is what would be used to determine when restrictions get lifted. I’m going to continue to wear a mask but that’s really all I can do.

[regentrude]

8 minutes ago, Pawz4me said:

 

But still . . I can't fully wrap my head around the extent of the backlash. Perhaps I'm being naive in trusting the studies that are showing how very effective the vaccines are for most people, and how well they're preventing transmission. The arguments against dropping the mask mandate now to me mostly seem pretty circular. I'll almost certainly continue to mask in public, but I can't get too worked up over the mandate being dropped now.

But it's not just about protecting the vaccinated folks! I don't want the 75% of people in my area who aren't vaxxed to walk around maskless and infect one another, filling up the hospital (just a few months ago, we had a situation where they couldn't find a bed for a patient with brain injury in our entire state) and giving the virus breeding ground to mutate to a form against the vaccine is not effective. 

I trust that the vaccine will protect me to a large degree. But it won't protect me against the larger ramifications of an outbreak in the unvaccinated population. It's not just about me as an individual; we are connected as a community,  and people's actions affect others. That's a concept that seems terribly hard to understand for many, and that is disheartening. 

Edited May 16, 2021 by regentrude

[pinball]

1 hour ago, Spy Car said:

No, I assume that anti-vaxers and anti-maskers largely form one cohort and they will cheat the requirement to mask because they are indifferent to human life and entirely unethical.

Many (most) vaxed people will continue to mask because we know that's it is better public health policy to mask until everyone has access to vaccines and the time for the vaccines to take hold.

It's simple.

Bill

 

This is a hideously ugly take.

I’m not surprised, given other posts of yours with a similar hateful view.

 

[KSera]

32 minutes ago, KeriJ said:

I have heard both of those, but it still doesn't make sense to me.  If I am vaccinated, then I won't be spreading it to the unvaccinated children.  As far as the first point,  that is a problem all its own. Those who would be dishonest have likely already been unmasked all along. I know many of them in real life.

I expect this might be differently received in high masking areas vs low masking ones. In places with mandates, people are likely used to everyone being masked. I haven’t seen anyone unmasked indoors in a year. People who would be dishonest about vaccination status have been masking here to this point, because it is required and enforced. I know from local discussions that there are plenty of those who have only been masking because they have to that are going to stop now because no one has any way to know who is eligible to be unmasked due to being vaccinated and who isn’t. That’s my issue with it, combined with….

2 minutes ago, Pawz4me said:

I'm as pro-mask and pro-vaccine as anyone, and I'm also having a bit of a problem understanding the extent of the backlash against the CDC guidance.

Sure I get it for immune compromised people (I'm one of those, FWIW) and for people who for whatever sound medical reason can't be vaccinated. For people in that group it would absolutely be better if the mask mandate had been left in place until most areas had much higher percentages of vaccinated people.

And I totally get it about kids.

And those two categories are certainly NOT insignificant.

But still . . I can't fully wrap my head around the extent of the backlash. Perhaps I'm being naive in trusting the studies that are showing how very effective the vaccines are for most people, and how well they're preventing transmission. The arguments against dropping the mask mandate now to me mostly seem pretty circular. I'll almost certainly continue to mask in public, but I can't get too worked up over the mandate being dropped now.

I’m in an area where even people who worked hard to get a vaccine appointment as soon as they were eligible are still not done with the series, much less two weeks past second shot. So to me, it doesn’t meet the “everyone who wants to be vaccinated has been” standard at all. And then there are kids, and at a time when P1 is increasing and kids are being increasingly seriously affected. 

[mommyoffive]

3 hours ago, Lawyer&Mom said:

I also feel like the needs of parents of small children were completely ignored, which honestly hurts.  A lot has been asked of us during the pandemic, and this is the thanks we get. 

Yes.  I 1000% agree.  Even not of just small children, but my 12-15 year olds too.   I mean they haven't been able to get into get their vaccines yet.  And even if they had in the last 3 days since this came out they are not fully protected.  But yeah my kids younger than 12, I hurt for them so much.  I mean all kids who have gone through this pandemic.  Who have gotten things taken away from them that they wanted to do or worked for.  Every holiday changed.  Birthday parties with friends missed out on.  Sports events cancelled.  Big dance recitals gone.  They can't get the last 1.5 years back.  They have missed so much of their childhoods.  And they have done everything right to protect the elderly and at risk for all this time by doing this.  They follow all the rules, wear their masks, don't go to get togethers, school, events and yet they have to just get the crap part of this deal.   

[kokotg]

7 minutes ago, Pawz4me said:

I'm as pro-mask and pro-vaccine as anyone, and I'm also having a bit of a problem understanding the extent of the backlash against the CDC guidance.

Sure I get it for immune compromised people (I'm one of those, FWIW) and for people who for whatever sound medical reason can't be vaccinated. For people in that group it would absolutely be better if the mask mandate had been left in place until most areas had much higher percentages of vaccinated people.

And I totally get it about kids.

And those two categories are certainly NOT insignificant.

But still . . I can't fully wrap my head around the extent of the backlash. Perhaps I'm being naive in trusting the studies that are showing how very effective the vaccines are for most people, and how well they're preventing transmission. The arguments against dropping the mask mandate now to me mostly seem pretty circular. I'll almost certainly continue to mask in public, but I can't get too worked up over the mandate being dropped now.

Well, for me it's mostly about kids. I don't WANT unvaccinated adults to get covid, but I do think that at a certain point you have to say that everyone's had a chance to be vaccinated and that's the best you can do (with caveats, like continued outreach to get hesitant people or populations with poor access vaccinated and that this is dependent on numbers continuing to go down, health care systems not being overwhelmed, etc). 

If I had, say, an 11 year old kid in school right now, in a system like I mentioned that immediately did away with its mask mandate, I'd be LIVID that a bait and switch like this had been pulled--people made decisions about sending kids to school based on certain precautions being taken, and now that's suddenly changed. 

My own situation is that I have an 8 year old who has some anxiety about covid. We've worked on it a lot and he's felt good about venturing out more. We work hard to reassure him that there are guidelines in place to keep all of us safe, and that we're following these guidelines. That's a lot harder to do if we start encountering more and more places where hardly anyone is wearing a mask. He's not a dummy; he's going to ask me if all of those people are really vaccinated, and I'm not going to lie to him. So we'll see what happens. I think the number one concern right now should be getting numbers down as fast as possible. I think that's what the CDC thinks they're doing, by incentivizing getting vaccinated, but I have my doubts that that will actually happen. 

[Spy Car]

14 minutes ago, pinball said:

This is a hideously ugly take.

I’m not surprised, given other posts of yours with a similar hateful view.

 

It sure is an ugly tale.

Unfortunately, it could not be more accurate.

Being "hateful" is willing and deliberately putting other people at risk, which sure ain't me.

Bill

 

[Lady Florida.]

22 minutes ago, Pawz4me said:

I'm as pro-mask and pro-vaccine as anyone, and I'm also having a bit of a problem understanding the extent of the backlash against the CDC guidance.

Sure I get it for immune compromised people (I'm one of those, FWIW) and for people who for whatever sound medical reason can't be vaccinated. For people in that group it would absolutely be better if the mask mandate had been left in place until most areas had much higher percentages of vaccinated people.

And I totally get it about kids.

And those two categories are certainly NOT insignificant.

But still . . I can't fully wrap my head around the extent of the backlash. Perhaps I'm being naive in trusting the studies that are showing how very effective the vaccines are for most people, and how well they're preventing transmission. The arguments against dropping the mask mandate now to me mostly seem pretty circular. I'll almost certainly continue to mask in public, but I can't get too worked up over the mandate being dropped now.

I have to agree with you. I get why people are upset and in states that have had mask mandates there likely will be those who pretend to be vaccinated in order to shed their masks. In states like mine that not only had no mandate but actually had orders from the governor preventing local governments from creating their own mandates, very little will change. I don't think it would be right for the CDC to sit on the science just because people are jerks. The studies are clear, and a medical and scientific organization can't and shouldn't pretend there is no scientific information that changes the current recommendations. 

15 minutes ago, regentrude said:

But it's not just about protecting the vaccinated folks! I don't want the 75% of people in my area who aren't vaxxed to walk around maskless and infect one another, filling up the hospital (just a few months ago, we had a situation where they couldn't find a bed for a patient with brain injury in our entire state) and giving the virus breeding ground to mutate to a form against the vaccine is not effective. 

 

I get this. I have 3 grandchildren still to young to be vaccinated, one of whom is immune deficient (not compromised). However, I (and they) have been living in a state for the past 1+ year that has not had a mask mandate, has only shut down a few things for a short time, and has a governor determined to pretend Covid isn't a problem. And he has followers. Many followers. Those people have already been refusing to mask in stores that "require" masks. They've already intimidated low wage employees to the point they just stopped trying, for their own safety and to prevent big confrontations that could potentially be a danger to both employees and customers. This new recommendation won't change much other than that some vaccinated people will start going without masks (I'm among the fully vaccinated who will continue to mask).