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35 minutes ago, PinkTulip said:

I have a tendency toward anxiety about the news overall - what websites or news sources do y’all recommend that gives straightforward, realistic, non-sensational information about this? I’m feeling a little fatigued with the regular news and Impeachment! Kobe! Climate Change! etc. (all important things, I just can’t take any more stress now)

I like abc here or bbc for calm no nonsense news.  

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DS got home 3 hours ago!  ❤️❤️

Update-  my youngest is not only short of breath, coughing, dizzy, nausaues, and with headache-  she is also confused.  I called our doctor and talked with him and she is going to be going to the ER.

That's not a blanket right.  If my religion required human sacrifice, I can't practice it.  If my religion required sexual assault, I can't practice it. Freedom of religion isn't a blanket right

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1 hour ago, PinkTulip said:

I have a tendency toward anxiety about the news overall - what websites or news sources do y’all recommend that gives straightforward, realistic, non-sensational information about this? I’m feeling a little fatigued with the regular news and Impeachment! Kobe! Climate Change! etc. (all important things, I just can’t take any more stress now)

 

For the coronavirus problem I tend to find using my cellphone to check *briefly* on updates is good.  BBC, Reuters, (CNN - the most sensational of this group imo, but easy to access), CBC (and other Canadian sources) can all work —as can just googling for latest news on any topic of interest.  

For Impeachment, and hoping this does not violate board rules, I tend to catch parts of C-Span either live or after the fact. It seems to me to be the straightest view I can find of the actual hearings with the least talking heads commentary and added sensationalism.  

With Kobe, I know it happened, looked at an early report or two, but am not following it.  

Climate Change and environmental issues I’ve been following for a long time, just finished helping my son with a school project related to climate change.  Those are harder for me personally: “Big issues” and affecting many species.  

I don’t have a TV and our largest computer screen is 15” so that helps keep things in a smaller perspective visually.  

 

Edited by Pen
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2 hours ago, Pen said:

 

That seems high if there were actually only 6000-8000 cases in a city the size of Wuhan.  

I mean for that many Japanese to have happened to have encountered ill Chinese, it seems to me that there must be way higher numbers of people sick (or asymptomatically transmitting disease) than have been suggested in reports I have seen.   

Unless it was something like a single tour group all of whom encountered the same sick person.  

I think there are many more ill than the number of cases quoted in the press.  I have read on several sites that China is stating there is a shortage of test kits. So... I think there is really no way to track how many people have coronavirus there.

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1 hour ago, Ausmumof3 said:

I like abc here or bbc for calm no nonsense news.  

 

To clarify for US people who might not immediately recognize its acronym, I’m sure by ABC you mean Australian Broadcasting (not US commercial station ABC). 

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35 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

To clarify for US people who might not immediately recognize its acronym, I’m sure by ABC you mean Australian Broadcasting (not US commercial station ABC). 

Yes!  Sorry 

abc.net.au Not abc.com

but for international bbc is better.

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9 hours ago, Lanny said:

 

I haven't read the blog post you linked to yet, but as an Overseas American, and a former airline employee, I believe the Logistics of setting up the evacuation flight for the approximately 3 dozen U.S. Citizen employees (and their families) in the Consulate in Wuhan were extremely difficult.

I had read that the government had told civilians that wanted to go on the flight that they would need to pay MANY times what the normal fare is, so today when I saw they were only charging $1000 USD per passenger, I thought that was very low.

For someone who was in Wuhan temporarily and got caught there, to get home to the USA for only $1000, is a bargain.

However, for those of us who are Overseas Americans, if they took us to Southern California (as in the case of the evacuation from Wuhan) or to somewhere near Washington, DC, for another example, and our lives are overseas, where we would go and what we would do is an interesting question.

For those who go as Tourists, on a Cruise, or on a Air/Land tour, for vacation, this is a suggestion that they consider Travel Accident insurance that covers Medical issues and also Evacuation and under what circumstances they would pay for an Evacuation.

If the airlines cancel flights, or one country where there is an issue (China in this case) doesn't permit people to leave their country, or another country, for example doesn't permit people who are arriving from an affected area (China in this case) then the existence of Evacuation insurance isn't going to get someone to their home in the USA or another country.

Yes, I second this.  

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6 hours ago, Katy said:

 

Keep in mind the confirmed numbers can only go up as much as the volume of tests they have.

That is currently being kept in the part of my mind that I’ve tucked away in a little locked box.  Once I open it, the draconian measures come out with it.

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8th case for au

I am seeing report of 1 for India and 1 for Philippines but not from overly reliable sources.

Seems there are problems getting permissions to do the evacuations.  Apparently the Australia one has to go via mainland as they can’t land a big enough plane on Christmas Island.  So probably Learmonth airport. 

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The U.S. Government is trying to arrange a 2nd evacuation flight to bring U.S. Citizens out of Wuhan. Possibly on February 3rd. The first one, which brought out the Diplomats of the U.S. Consulate and their families and some others, brought approximately 195 passengers, in a 747 Cargo Jet (no Windows) to California.

https://www.foxnews.com/health/world-health-organization-consider-coronavirus-public-health-emergency

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31 minutes ago, RootAnn said:

I haven't seen this anywhere:  how long did it last on surfaces? (I'm thinking items made in China & shipped elsewhere.) Ideas?

I have not seen it for this virus, but flu is 48 hours on hard surfaces and 8-12 hours on porous surfaces (I did a lot of wiping stuff down while I recently had the flu).  Wonder if it is different for this????

Edited by mlktwins
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This is more like a cold than the flu. How long does the cold virus last on surfaces? I have seen as low as 24 hrs & as high as days. This one says they don't live long. I hope that's true.

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5 minutes ago, RootAnn said:

This is more like a cold than the flu. How long does the cold virus last on surfaces? I have seen as low as 24 hrs & as high as days. This one says they don't live long. I hope that's true.

I read 4-5 days a few days ago. I do not remember the source. Something about how it will dehydrate to survive and wait for rehydration.

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I don't think there is any reason to believe this is a superbug in terms of lasting long term on surfaces.  Even though the cold can in theory survive on a hard surface several days, the virus loses ability to cause an infection more rapidly.  It's unusual to get a cold by hard surface transfer after like 24 hours.  

https://www.nhs.uk/common-health-questions/infections/how-long-do-bacteria-and-viruses-live-outside-the-body/

https://jamaicahospital.org/newsletter/how-long-can-viruses-live-outside-the-body/

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But i remember wh

2 minutes ago, FuzzyCatz said:

I don't think there is any reason to believe this is a superbug in terms of lasting long term on surfaces.  Even though the cold can in theory survive on a hard surface several days, the virus loses ability to cause an infection more rapidly.  It's unusual to get a cold by hard surface transfer after like 24 hours.  

https://www.nhs.uk/common-health-questions/infections/how-long-do-bacteria-and-viruses-live-outside-the-body/

https://jamaicahospital.org/newsletter/how-long-can-viruses-live-outside-the-body/

But I remember when everyone was freaking out about AIDS in bathrooms when that virus cannot live on surfaces hardly at all.  OTOH, the other bad virus that was going around, and I suppose still is. was Hep B  (and what turned out to be called Hep C too).  They survive very well on surfaces for hours and if one has broken skin on thighs or buttocks, one should not sit on public restrooms without protection.    It is very unclear to which category this Coronavirus falls. It is an unusual coronavirus in several regards so it also could be more or less contagious on surfaces.

We have in our viewing area a elementary school that has closed due to flu and the teachers will be there wiping all surfaces down.  We have this happen every year at some schools which brings up why do they not require flu vaccines? Healthy children keep dying from it.

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15 hours ago, Terabith said:

When I was student teaching, we were instructed not to allow first graders to wash hands before lunch or at any time during the day because it “takes away too much instructional time; just use hand sanitizer.”  And at the schools where I sub, not a single classroom has any time for hand washing, nor is there even a convenient way set up for kids to do so even in the bathrooms.  Frequently there’s no soap or paper towels.  “Just get a squirt of hand sanitizer.”

That is absolutely disgusting and were I a parent of a child in that school I'd be livid.

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23 hours ago, Slache said:

Yes. We have to go to work sick or we're fired. We have to go to class sick or we'll get dropped from the class. We are expected to go about our daily lives and to hell with everyone else. Even in the food industry I was told I would be fired if I called off sick.

This. My son was in college classes that had 2 absences maximum per semester. So he'd show up sick, other kids would, teachers were sick, etc. And jobs too. 

 

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1 hour ago, TravelingChris said:

But i remember wh

But I remember when everyone was freaking out about AIDS in bathrooms when that virus cannot live on surfaces hardly at all.  OTOH, the other bad virus that was going around, and I suppose still is. was Hep B  (and what turned out to be called Hep C too).  They survive very well on surfaces for hours and if one has broken skin on thighs or buttocks, one should not sit on public restrooms without protection.    It is very unclear to which category this Coronavirus falls. It is an unusual coronavirus in several regards so it also could be more or less contagious on surfaces.

We have in our viewing area a elementary school that has closed due to flu and the teachers will be there wiping all surfaces down.  We have this happen every year at some schools which brings up why do they not require flu vaccines? Healthy children keep dying from it.

Given the above statement from another poster, I doubt they can/will require flu vaccine when they can't and won't require basic hand washing!

This was why last year when my kid was in religious education for church I kept her out of class for I think it was two weeks, right before we had a trip planned. Her classes were in a school class room, and I had no illusions that the desks were cleaned, or hygiene practiced. 

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Regarding sanitizer vs hand washing, I remember a few years ago watching people come out of a public restroom at a theme park complaining in confusion that there was no hand sanitizer - how were they going to deal with the germs??

Um...y'all just left a space with soap and water. Try that? 

Seems they avoided the soap and water in expectations of hand sanitizer stations?

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1 hour ago, TravelingChris said:

We have in our viewing area a elementary school that has closed due to flu and the teachers will be there wiping all surfaces down.  We have this happen every year at some schools which brings up why do they not require flu vaccines? Healthy children keep dying from it.

I get what you are saying, but I just got over Flu B and I had my vaccine.  It won't necessarily stop one from getting the flu unfortunately.  It was a miserable 6 days of cough and high fever.

And...I wash my hands a lot through the day.

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1 hour ago, TravelingChris said:

We have in our viewing area a elementary school that has closed due to flu and the teachers will be there wiping all surfaces down.  We have this happen every year at some schools which brings up why do they not require flu vaccines? Healthy children keep dying from it.

I read recently that children who get the flu vaccine each year are more susceptible to pandemic varieties of influenza A because they haven't developed immunity via natural infection with seasonal influenza A.  It was from a study in a peer-reviewed journal - something about virology, I think?  As an alternative, studies have shown vitamin D has a strong effect against both influenza and the common cold.  Many people are deficient in vitamin D and have no idea.  

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12 hours ago, PinkTulip said:

I have a tendency toward anxiety about the news overall - what websites or news sources do y’all recommend that gives straightforward, realistic, non-sensational information about this? I’m feeling a little fatigued with the regular news and Impeachment! Kobe! Climate Change! etc. (all important things, I just can’t take any more stress now)

If you’re a believer, Disrn is a great aggregator. Short summaries of important news items with a link the the original story, and a little bit of opinion that’s from a Christian worldview.

https://disrn.com
 

I also read the WSJ, along with listening to some specific podcasts that are thoughtful analysis a day or two later and not sensational.  And I curate my twitter feed the same way - mostly funny, uplifting people with takes on the daily news items that aren’t wide eyed ridiculousness.

With a few exceptions TV news of any sort has lost all my respect, on all sides.  Print and podcast is where I tend to go now.

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6 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

 

Oh my. 

Confirms my long-held opinion that cruise ships with the capacity to carry 6000 passengers should not exist. That’s not a sailing ship, it’s a floating city. 

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57 minutes ago, Arctic Mama said:

If you’re a believer, Disrn is a great aggregator. Short summaries of important news items with a link the the original story, and a little bit of opinion that’s from a Christian worldview.

https://disrn.com
 

I also read the WSJ, along with listening to some specific podcasts that are thoughtful analysis a day or two later and not sensational.  And I curate my twitter feed the same way - mostly funny, uplifting people with takes on the daily news items that aren’t wide eyed ridiculousness.

With a few exceptions TV news of any sort has lost all my respect, on all sides.  Print and podcast is where I tend to go now.

 

The World & Everything In It is another NPR style broadcast from a non-sensational point of view. It is conservative Christian, however, I find it quite balanced. 

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11 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Yes!  Sorry 

abc.net.au Not abc.com

but for international bbc is better.

 

@PinkTulip I agree.  BBC tends to be excellent for international.  I also like Reuter’s a lot. 

Here are examples of how I might do a news search on topic of interest to get some basic updates without a lot of distressing sensationalism added.  The exact search terms as well as the site search makes results different, so here both searches are on Reuter’s, but one I used term coronavirus and the other Wuhan virus: 

E5D9334A-76A1-4DA5-B885-8C839815D91F.jpeg

CAEFED09-5BE1-4931-9427-CCB462EC9644.jpeg

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1 hour ago, klmama said:

I read recently that children who get the flu vaccine each year are more susceptible to pandemic varieties of influenza A because they haven't developed immunity via natural infection with seasonal influenza A.  It was from a study in a peer-reviewed journal - something about virology, I think?  As an alternative, studies have shown vitamin D has a strong effect against both influenza and the common cold.  Many people are deficient in vitamin D and have no idea.  

Yesterday I was reading about how influenza vaccines could make people more susceptible to other respiratory viruses, including coronaviruses...something called virus interference.  I won't link to the article because it isn't a medical source, but it included some links, including this one about a recent study:  https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/31607599

And apparently China doubled its flu vaccine supply this year according to this article:  https://www.chinadaily.com.cn/a/201910/31/WS5dba17d3a310cf3e35574898.html

 

Edited by Laurie
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4 hours ago, RootAnn said:

I haven't seen this anywhere:  how long did it last on surfaces? (I'm thinking items made in China & shipped elsewhere.) Ideas?

The NSW health minister stated in the media conference yesterday that there was no risk from parcels or food from China.  
for what that’s worth.

the video footage of the guys in hazmat suits spraying down park benches and steps etc make me assume that in China they must be worried about hard surface transfer but that may be Precaution due to lack of knowledge rather than based on known risk.

we have a parcel due in any day and I must admit it’s been on my mind.

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26 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

The NSW health minister stated in the media conference yesterday that there was no risk from parcels or food from China.  
for what that’s worth.

the video footage of the guys in hazmat suits spraying down park benches and steps etc make me assume that in China they must be worried about hard surface transfer but that may be Precaution due to lack of knowledge rather than based on known risk.

we have a parcel due in any day and I must admit it’s been on my mind.

 

🤔

I think I read that it’s pretty certain to be transmissible from surfaces.  Unknown for how long or what conditions.  

If it were me, right now I might proceed with an “abundance of caution.” 

Maybe gloves / mask or scarf around mouth and nose to open it? If a parcel from China could be let sit out in sun (assuming you have sun, and based on sun generally helping to clean things) all day, turning to expose all sides before opening — and best give it minimum of 48 hours sitting time for any virus inside to become less viable, I’d probably do that. 

 

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From BBC https://www.bbc.com/news/world-51318246

“The new coronavirus has been declared a global emergency by the World Health Organization, as the outbreak continues to spread outside China.

"The main reason for this declaration is not what is happening in China but what is happening in other countries," said WHO chief Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus. 

The concern is that it could spread to countries with weaker health systems. 

The death toll now stands at 170 people in China. 

The WHO said there had been 98 cases in 18 countries outside of the country, but no deaths. 

Most cases have emerged in people who have travelled from the Chinese city of Wuhan, where the outbreak began.

However, there have been eight cases of human-to-human infection - in Germany, Japan, Vietnam and the United States. 

Dr Tedros, speaking at the press conference in Geneva, described the virus as an "unprecedented outbreak" that has been met with an "unprecedented response".

He praised the "extraordinary measures" Chinese authorities had taken to prevent it from spreading. 

"Let me be clear, this declaration is not a vote of no confidence in China," he added. 

When has this happened in the past? 

The WHO declares a Public Health Emergency of International Concern when there is "an extraordinary event which is determined … to constitute a public health risk to other states through the international spread of disease". 

It has previously declared five global public health emergencies”

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4 hours ago, Ktgrok said:

Regarding sanitizer vs hand washing, I remember a few years ago watching people come out of a public restroom at a theme park complaining in confusion that there was no hand sanitizer - how were they going to deal with the germs??

Um...y'all just left a space with soap and water. Try that? 

Seems they avoided the soap and water in expectations of hand sanitizer stations?

This reminds me - my dh told me that men's restrooms are often so gross that he avoids touching the faucets and uses hand sanitizer instead.

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I’m listening to the podcast “The Daily” for today, it’s called “A Virus’s Journey Across China.”  Very interesting!  They are talking to a journalist who talked to people whose parents died of respiratory illnesses but weren’t tested for this Coronavirus but maybe/probably they did have it.  

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37 minutes ago, Lecka said:

I’m listening to the podcast “The Daily” for today, it’s called “A Virus’s Journey Across China.”  Very interesting!  They are talking to a journalist who talked to people whose parents died of respiratory illnesses but weren’t tested for this Coronavirus but maybe/probably they did have it.  

 

I just listened. Thanks for recommending that!

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48 minutes ago, Lecka said:

I’m listening to the podcast “The Daily” for today, it’s called “A Virus’s Journey Across China.”  Very interesting!  They are talking to a journalist who talked to people whose parents died of respiratory illnesses but weren’t tested for this Coronavirus but maybe/probably they did have it.  

https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/health/health-problems/health-experts-say-humantohuman-spread-of-new-virus-is-worrying/news-story/9c2a58ffe1060669fe65f8408ad5655e

this kind of follows the same lines.  They may have been sending bodies for cremation without identification to avoid adding to the official numbers.  Hopefully not true but sounds believable.

looks like the increase wasn’t so significant today if the numbers are accurate so maybe the lockdown is working.

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1 minute ago, Carrie12345 said:

Pro: That’s lower than “crazy” projections.
Con: The official estimated numbers (is that an oxymoron?) are closer.

We still have a lack of tests though. A lack of testing plus burning the bodies? We don't know how many have it or the mortality rate.

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8 hours ago, klmama said:

I read recently that children who get the flu vaccine each year are more susceptible to pandemic varieties of influenza A because they haven't developed immunity via natural infection with seasonal influenza A.  It was from a study in a peer-reviewed journal - something about virology, I think?  As an alternative, studies have shown vitamin D has a strong effect against both influenza and the common cold.  Many people are deficient in vitamin D and have no idea.  

 

I wonder if this contributes to fewer cases of cold and flu in the summer months vs winter ones?

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14 minutes ago, Excelsior! Academy said:

 

I wonder if this contributes to fewer cases of cold and flu in the summer months vs winter ones?

 

Yes, D is probably part of it.  Humidity is another part.

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1 hour ago, PrincessMommy said:

Where are you getting these confirmation numbers?  I am following the ones on the Johns Hopkins link but they haven't been updated in several hours.

 

This link is in chinese https://news.qq.com/zt2020/page/feiyan.htm (ETA: the numbers are for China only)

confirmed (red) 9692

Suspected (yellow) 15238

Treated (greenish) 171

dead (dark gray) 213

The table on that link is provinces/major cities in China so the top line is Hubei with 204 deaths

ETA:

The last table on that link is for outside China. 100 confirmed cases 0 fatality

Edited by Arcadia
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