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wuhan - coronavirus

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43 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

7,260 confirmed and 170 deaths now.

For whatever it’s worth, that’s slightly higher than some of the projections that were made by people who’ve been saying that this is going to be bad. People who are generally considered crazy alarmists.

If their projections for tomorrow pan out... I’m not going to be happy.

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4 hours ago, Pen said:

I’m not sure if hand sanitizers are good because better than nothing,  or bad because they give false sense of security and people don’t wash their hands with soap then.   I did notice that even when hands are washed in situations like kindergarten irl that I have seen, it isn’t long enough or thorough enough.  

 

When I was student teaching, we were instructed not to allow first graders to wash hands before lunch or at any time during the day because it “takes away too much instructional time; just use hand sanitizer.”  And at the schools where I sub, not a single classroom has any time for hand washing, nor is there even a convenient way set up for kids to do so even in the bathrooms.  Frequently there’s no soap or paper towels.  “Just get a squirt of hand sanitizer.”

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7,736 according to a news outlet I trust. 7,814 from one I’m not so sure about. CNN still stuck on 6,000ish.  That was my go-to site... until now, lol.

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3 minutes ago, Carrie12345 said:

7,736 according to a news outlet I trust. 7,814 from one I’m not so sure about. CNN still stuck on 6,000ish.  That was my go-to site... until now, lol.

Wiki has the figures I’ve had and I’ve also seen them from an official looking Chinese website however who knows.  I think the around 6000 is from WHO but they don’t seem to be adjusted since yesterday?  Clearly I spent too much time thinking about this.  I do think it will be easier to control here so I’m still not stressed but would be nice to see a more consistent approach to management:  the health lady here doing the official press conferences is looking slightly anxious.

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2 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Wiki has the figures I’ve had and I’ve also seen them from an official looking Chinese website however who knows.  I think the around 6000 is from WHO but they don’t seem to be adjusted since yesterday?  Clearly I spent too much time thinking about this.  I do think it will be easier to control here so I’m still not stressed but would be nice to see a more consistent approach to management:  the health lady here doing the official press conferences is looking slightly anxious.

I agree that it’s likely to be easier to manage in some of our countries... if done well/right/whatever words fit.
The WHO guy saying they regret not ringing a bigger bell before somehow makes me more distrustful and more hopeful at the same time, so I guess it’s a wash, lol.

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3 people evacuated on the Japanese flight tested positive and several are showing symptoms on a second flight.

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1 hour ago, Carrie12345 said:

For whatever it’s worth, that’s slightly higher than some of the projections that were made by people who’ve been saying that this is going to be bad. People who are generally considered crazy alarmists.

If their projections for tomorrow pan out... I’m not going to be happy.

 

Keep in mind the confirmed numbers can only go up as much as the volume of tests they have.

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Latest confirmed Australian case fell ill while on a plane from Melbourne to Gold Coast.  Several other passengers travelling in the group with him are now showing signs of illness.  Two Australians in China have been confirmed ill.  However the area they are in is nowhere near Wuhan and doesn’t seem to be in the locked down areas.  I would feel happier if they stopped flights to Australia to be honest or at least imposed quarantine periods.  Seems madness that Australian citizens have to be quarantined on Christmas Island and tourists can come freely.  Admittedly they aren’t from Wuhan area but there seem to be a fair number of cases outside that zone 

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1 hour ago, Ausmumof3 said:

3 people evacuated on the Japanese flight tested positive and several are showing symptoms on a second flight.

 

That seems high if there were actually only 6000-8000 cases in a city the size of Wuhan.  

I mean for that many Japanese to have happened to have encountered ill Chinese, it seems to me that there must be way higher numbers of people sick (or asymptomatically transmitting disease) than have been suggested in reports I have seen.   

Unless it was something like a single tour group all of whom encountered the same sick person.  

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27 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

That seems high if there were actually only 6000-8000 cases in a city the size of Wuhan.  

I mean for that many Japanese to have happened to have encountered ill Chinese, it seems to me that there must be way higher numbers of people sick (or asymptomatically transmitting disease) than have been suggested in reports I have seen.   

Unless it was something like a single tour group all of whom encountered the same sick person.  

Yeah I agree

although I think there’s something like 12,000 suspected cases as well.  I guess realistically if I was in Wuhan and mildly ill I probably wouldn’t rush to go to an overcrowded hospital where I was guaranteed to catch it.  So possibly it’s more widespread with mild symptoms and the figures just reflect those bad enough/desperate enough to actually go for medical help?  Would that make sense?  Which in some ways would mean it’s likely less lethal.  But possibly more contagious.  Or it’s been going on for quite a bit longer but not acknowledged.  

I’m also pretty sketchy about the actual numbers reported anyway. 

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31 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

That seems high if there were actually only 6000-8000 cases in a city the size of Wuhan.  

I mean for that many Japanese to have happened to have encountered ill Chinese, it seems to me that there must be way higher numbers of people sick (or asymptomatically transmitting disease) than have been suggested in reports I have seen.   

Unless it was something like a single tour group all of whom encountered the same sick person.  

Yes or all one family or something.

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3 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Yeah I agree

although I think there’s something like 12,000 suspected cases as well.  I guess realistically if I was in Wuhan and mildly ill I probably wouldn’t rush to go to an overcrowded hospital where I was guaranteed to catch it.  So possibly it’s more widespread with mild symptoms and the figures just reflect those bad enough/desperate enough to actually go for medical help?  Would that make sense?  Which in some ways would mean it’s likely less lethal.  But possibly more contagious.  Or it’s been going on for quite a bit longer but not acknowledged.  

I’m also pretty sketchy about the actual numbers reported anyway. 

A bulletin on about the second day (I'm thinking EST, not Beijing time) asked people not to go to the hospital at the first sign of illness because of it getting overcrowded. I was reading a message on WeChat a little while ago about a family of three getting sick nearby where the poster lived; only the 73 year old male was taken to the hospital by ambulance. Apparently they'd been sick for 13 days without telling anyone (but had been self-quarantined).

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I have a tendency toward anxiety about the news overall - what websites or news sources do y’all recommend that gives straightforward, realistic, non-sensational information about this? I’m feeling a little fatigued with the regular news and Impeachment! Kobe! Climate Change! etc. (all important things, I just can’t take any more stress now)

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35 minutes ago, PinkTulip said:

I have a tendency toward anxiety about the news overall - what websites or news sources do y’all recommend that gives straightforward, realistic, non-sensational information about this? I’m feeling a little fatigued with the regular news and Impeachment! Kobe! Climate Change! etc. (all important things, I just can’t take any more stress now)

I like abc here or bbc for calm no nonsense news.  

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1 hour ago, PinkTulip said:

I have a tendency toward anxiety about the news overall - what websites or news sources do y’all recommend that gives straightforward, realistic, non-sensational information about this? I’m feeling a little fatigued with the regular news and Impeachment! Kobe! Climate Change! etc. (all important things, I just can’t take any more stress now)

 

For the coronavirus problem I tend to find using my cellphone to check *briefly* on updates is good.  BBC, Reuters, (CNN - the most sensational of this group imo, but easy to access), CBC (and other Canadian sources) can all work —as can just googling for latest news on any topic of interest.  

For Impeachment, and hoping this does not violate board rules, I tend to catch parts of C-Span either live or after the fact. It seems to me to be the straightest view I can find of the actual hearings with the least talking heads commentary and added sensationalism.  

With Kobe, I know it happened, looked at an early report or two, but am not following it.  

Climate Change and environmental issues I’ve been following for a long time, just finished helping my son with a school project related to climate change.  Those are harder for me personally: “Big issues” and affecting many species.  

I don’t have a TV and our largest computer screen is 15” so that helps keep things in a smaller perspective visually.  

 

Edited by Pen
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About 40% of people I saw today were masked, including some kids at school, and for every single person bar one, the masks did not have anything like an adequate seal to even protect against the common cold. Kids on the bus were loosening them, because it's hot, taking them down to eat...Their use seems to be purely psychological. 

 

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2 hours ago, Pen said:

 

That seems high if there were actually only 6000-8000 cases in a city the size of Wuhan.  

I mean for that many Japanese to have happened to have encountered ill Chinese, it seems to me that there must be way higher numbers of people sick (or asymptomatically transmitting disease) than have been suggested in reports I have seen.   

Unless it was something like a single tour group all of whom encountered the same sick person.  

I think there are many more ill than the number of cases quoted in the press.  I have read on several sites that China is stating there is a shortage of test kits. So... I think there is really no way to track how many people have coronavirus there.

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1 hour ago, Ausmumof3 said:

I like abc here or bbc for calm no nonsense news.  

 

To clarify for US people who might not immediately recognize its acronym, I’m sure by ABC you mean Australian Broadcasting (not US commercial station ABC). 

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35 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

To clarify for US people who might not immediately recognize its acronym, I’m sure by ABC you mean Australian Broadcasting (not US commercial station ABC). 

Yes!  Sorry 

abc.net.au Not abc.com

but for international bbc is better.

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9 hours ago, Lanny said:

 

I haven't read the blog post you linked to yet, but as an Overseas American, and a former airline employee, I believe the Logistics of setting up the evacuation flight for the approximately 3 dozen U.S. Citizen employees (and their families) in the Consulate in Wuhan were extremely difficult.

I had read that the government had told civilians that wanted to go on the flight that they would need to pay MANY times what the normal fare is, so today when I saw they were only charging $1000 USD per passenger, I thought that was very low.

For someone who was in Wuhan temporarily and got caught there, to get home to the USA for only $1000, is a bargain.

However, for those of us who are Overseas Americans, if they took us to Southern California (as in the case of the evacuation from Wuhan) or to somewhere near Washington, DC, for another example, and our lives are overseas, where we would go and what we would do is an interesting question.

For those who go as Tourists, on a Cruise, or on a Air/Land tour, for vacation, this is a suggestion that they consider Travel Accident insurance that covers Medical issues and also Evacuation and under what circumstances they would pay for an Evacuation.

If the airlines cancel flights, or one country where there is an issue (China in this case) doesn't permit people to leave their country, or another country, for example doesn't permit people who are arriving from an affected area (China in this case) then the existence of Evacuation insurance isn't going to get someone to their home in the USA or another country.

Yes, I second this.  

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6 hours ago, Katy said:

 

Keep in mind the confirmed numbers can only go up as much as the volume of tests they have.

That is currently being kept in the part of my mind that I’ve tucked away in a little locked box.  Once I open it, the draconian measures come out with it.

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8th case for au

I am seeing report of 1 for India and 1 for Philippines but not from overly reliable sources.

Seems there are problems getting permissions to do the evacuations.  Apparently the Australia one has to go via mainland as they can’t land a big enough plane on Christmas Island.  So probably Learmonth airport. 

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The U.S. Government is trying to arrange a 2nd evacuation flight to bring U.S. Citizens out of Wuhan. Possibly on February 3rd. The first one, which brought out the Diplomats of the U.S. Consulate and their families and some others, brought approximately 195 passengers, in a 747 Cargo Jet (no Windows) to California.

https://www.foxnews.com/health/world-health-organization-consider-coronavirus-public-health-emergency

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I haven't seen this anywhere:  how long did it last on surfaces? (I'm thinking items made in China & shipped elsewhere.) Ideas?

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31 minutes ago, RootAnn said:

I haven't seen this anywhere:  how long did it last on surfaces? (I'm thinking items made in China & shipped elsewhere.) Ideas?

I have not seen it for this virus, but flu is 48 hours on hard surfaces and 8-12 hours on porous surfaces (I did a lot of wiping stuff down while I recently had the flu).  Wonder if it is different for this????

Edited by mlktwins
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This is more like a cold than the flu. How long does the cold virus last on surfaces? I have seen as low as 24 hrs & as high as days. This one says they don't live long. I hope that's true.

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5 minutes ago, RootAnn said:

This is more like a cold than the flu. How long does the cold virus last on surfaces? I have seen as low as 24 hrs & as high as days. This one says they don't live long. I hope that's true.

I read 4-5 days a few days ago. I do not remember the source. Something about how it will dehydrate to survive and wait for rehydration.

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I don't think there is any reason to believe this is a superbug in terms of lasting long term on surfaces.  Even though the cold can in theory survive on a hard surface several days, the virus loses ability to cause an infection more rapidly.  It's unusual to get a cold by hard surface transfer after like 24 hours.  

https://www.nhs.uk/common-health-questions/infections/how-long-do-bacteria-and-viruses-live-outside-the-body/

https://jamaicahospital.org/newsletter/how-long-can-viruses-live-outside-the-body/

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But i remember wh

2 minutes ago, FuzzyCatz said:

I don't think there is any reason to believe this is a superbug in terms of lasting long term on surfaces.  Even though the cold can in theory survive on a hard surface several days, the virus loses ability to cause an infection more rapidly.  It's unusual to get a cold by hard surface transfer after like 24 hours.  

https://www.nhs.uk/common-health-questions/infections/how-long-do-bacteria-and-viruses-live-outside-the-body/

https://jamaicahospital.org/newsletter/how-long-can-viruses-live-outside-the-body/

But I remember when everyone was freaking out about AIDS in bathrooms when that virus cannot live on surfaces hardly at all.  OTOH, the other bad virus that was going around, and I suppose still is. was Hep B  (and what turned out to be called Hep C too).  They survive very well on surfaces for hours and if one has broken skin on thighs or buttocks, one should not sit on public restrooms without protection.    It is very unclear to which category this Coronavirus falls. It is an unusual coronavirus in several regards so it also could be more or less contagious on surfaces.

We have in our viewing area a elementary school that has closed due to flu and the teachers will be there wiping all surfaces down.  We have this happen every year at some schools which brings up why do they not require flu vaccines? Healthy children keep dying from it.

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15 hours ago, Terabith said:

When I was student teaching, we were instructed not to allow first graders to wash hands before lunch or at any time during the day because it “takes away too much instructional time; just use hand sanitizer.”  And at the schools where I sub, not a single classroom has any time for hand washing, nor is there even a convenient way set up for kids to do so even in the bathrooms.  Frequently there’s no soap or paper towels.  “Just get a squirt of hand sanitizer.”

That is absolutely disgusting and were I a parent of a child in that school I'd be livid.

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23 hours ago, Slache said:

Yes. We have to go to work sick or we're fired. We have to go to class sick or we'll get dropped from the class. We are expected to go about our daily lives and to hell with everyone else. Even in the food industry I was told I would be fired if I called off sick.

This. My son was in college classes that had 2 absences maximum per semester. So he'd show up sick, other kids would, teachers were sick, etc. And jobs too. 

 

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1 hour ago, TravelingChris said:

But i remember wh

But I remember when everyone was freaking out about AIDS in bathrooms when that virus cannot live on surfaces hardly at all.  OTOH, the other bad virus that was going around, and I suppose still is. was Hep B  (and what turned out to be called Hep C too).  They survive very well on surfaces for hours and if one has broken skin on thighs or buttocks, one should not sit on public restrooms without protection.    It is very unclear to which category this Coronavirus falls. It is an unusual coronavirus in several regards so it also could be more or less contagious on surfaces.

We have in our viewing area a elementary school that has closed due to flu and the teachers will be there wiping all surfaces down.  We have this happen every year at some schools which brings up why do they not require flu vaccines? Healthy children keep dying from it.

Given the above statement from another poster, I doubt they can/will require flu vaccine when they can't and won't require basic hand washing!

This was why last year when my kid was in religious education for church I kept her out of class for I think it was two weeks, right before we had a trip planned. Her classes were in a school class room, and I had no illusions that the desks were cleaned, or hygiene practiced. 

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Regarding sanitizer vs hand washing, I remember a few years ago watching people come out of a public restroom at a theme park complaining in confusion that there was no hand sanitizer - how were they going to deal with the germs??

Um...y'all just left a space with soap and water. Try that? 

Seems they avoided the soap and water in expectations of hand sanitizer stations?

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1 hour ago, TravelingChris said:

We have in our viewing area a elementary school that has closed due to flu and the teachers will be there wiping all surfaces down.  We have this happen every year at some schools which brings up why do they not require flu vaccines? Healthy children keep dying from it.

I get what you are saying, but I just got over Flu B and I had my vaccine.  It won't necessarily stop one from getting the flu unfortunately.  It was a miserable 6 days of cough and high fever.

And...I wash my hands a lot through the day.

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1 hour ago, TravelingChris said:

We have in our viewing area a elementary school that has closed due to flu and the teachers will be there wiping all surfaces down.  We have this happen every year at some schools which brings up why do they not require flu vaccines? Healthy children keep dying from it.

I read recently that children who get the flu vaccine each year are more susceptible to pandemic varieties of influenza A because they haven't developed immunity via natural infection with seasonal influenza A.  It was from a study in a peer-reviewed journal - something about virology, I think?  As an alternative, studies have shown vitamin D has a strong effect against both influenza and the common cold.  Many people are deficient in vitamin D and have no idea.  

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12 hours ago, PinkTulip said:

I have a tendency toward anxiety about the news overall - what websites or news sources do y’all recommend that gives straightforward, realistic, non-sensational information about this? I’m feeling a little fatigued with the regular news and Impeachment! Kobe! Climate Change! etc. (all important things, I just can’t take any more stress now)

If you’re a believer, Disrn is a great aggregator. Short summaries of important news items with a link the the original story, and a little bit of opinion that’s from a Christian worldview.

https://disrn.com
 

I also read the WSJ, along with listening to some specific podcasts that are thoughtful analysis a day or two later and not sensational.  And I curate my twitter feed the same way - mostly funny, uplifting people with takes on the daily news items that aren’t wide eyed ridiculousness.

With a few exceptions TV news of any sort has lost all my respect, on all sides.  Print and podcast is where I tend to go now.

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I'm quite surprised there haven't been reporting any new cases found here. I wasn't expecting huge growth in numbers but maybe a couple more cases found. 

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8 minutes ago, klmama said:

 

NM. I misread the post I was quoting.

 

Edited by Lady Florida.

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6 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

 

Oh my. 

Confirms my long-held opinion that cruise ships with the capacity to carry 6000 passengers should not exist. That’s not a sailing ship, it’s a floating city. 

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57 minutes ago, Arctic Mama said:

If you’re a believer, Disrn is a great aggregator. Short summaries of important news items with a link the the original story, and a little bit of opinion that’s from a Christian worldview.

https://disrn.com
 

I also read the WSJ, along with listening to some specific podcasts that are thoughtful analysis a day or two later and not sensational.  And I curate my twitter feed the same way - mostly funny, uplifting people with takes on the daily news items that aren’t wide eyed ridiculousness.

With a few exceptions TV news of any sort has lost all my respect, on all sides.  Print and podcast is where I tend to go now.

 

The World & Everything In It is another NPR style broadcast from a non-sensational point of view. It is conservative Christian, however, I find it quite balanced. 

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11 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Yes!  Sorry 

abc.net.au Not abc.com

but for international bbc is better.

 

@PinkTulip I agree.  BBC tends to be excellent for international.  I also like Reuter’s a lot. 

Here are examples of how I might do a news search on topic of interest to get some basic updates without a lot of distressing sensationalism added.  The exact search terms as well as the site search makes results different, so here both searches are on Reuter’s, but one I used term coronavirus and the other Wuhan virus: 

E5D9334A-76A1-4DA5-B885-8C839815D91F.jpeg

CAEFED09-5BE1-4931-9427-CCB462EC9644.jpeg

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1 hour ago, klmama said:

I read recently that children who get the flu vaccine each year are more susceptible to pandemic varieties of influenza A because they haven't developed immunity via natural infection with seasonal influenza A.  It was from a study in a peer-reviewed journal - something about virology, I think?  As an alternative, studies have shown vitamin D has a strong effect against both influenza and the common cold.  Many people are deficient in vitamin D and have no idea.  

Yesterday I was reading about how influenza vaccines could make people more susceptible to other respiratory viruses, including coronaviruses...something called virus interference.  I won't link to the article because it isn't a medical source, but it included some links, including this one about a recent study:  https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/31607599

And apparently China doubled its flu vaccine supply this year according to this article:  https://www.chinadaily.com.cn/a/201910/31/WS5dba17d3a310cf3e35574898.html

 

Edited by Laurie
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4 hours ago, RootAnn said:

I haven't seen this anywhere:  how long did it last on surfaces? (I'm thinking items made in China & shipped elsewhere.) Ideas?

The NSW health minister stated in the media conference yesterday that there was no risk from parcels or food from China.  
for what that’s worth.

the video footage of the guys in hazmat suits spraying down park benches and steps etc make me assume that in China they must be worried about hard surface transfer but that may be Precaution due to lack of knowledge rather than based on known risk.

we have a parcel due in any day and I must admit it’s been on my mind.

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