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1 hour ago, Corraleno said:

The article specifically says that he did send it up the chain of command, but Modly felt he did not do enough to prevent recipients from possibly leaking it, which "raised alarm bells unnecessarily," and that's why he was relieved of command. There are over 100 sailors on a nuclear sub infected with CV — sounds to me like alarm bells are pretty justified. Senator Mark Warner said Crozier was a patriot doing his job out of concern for his crew and shouldn't be punished for that.


From https://www.google.com/amp/s/abcnews.go.com/amp/Politics/navy-relieve-captain-aircraft-carrier-leak-letter-leadership/story%3fid=69944944

Modly made clear he did not fault Crozier for wanting to protect his crew, but took issue with how he did not express his concerns with his immediate supervisor, the rear admiral aboard the ship who was in charge of the Roosevelt carrier strike group.”. 
 

“According to Modly, by the time Crozier had written his letter the Navy already had plans to move 2,700 sailors off the carrier and was looking for hotel rooms so they could quarantine and isolate properly. The Navy said Wednesday that it would achieve that goal by the end of the week.”

It undermines our efforts -- and the chain of command's efforts -- to address this problem and creates a panic and creates the perception that the Navy is not on the job, the government's not on the job, and it's just not true," he said.”

He did jump the chain of command, cc’d 20-30 people??. I understand the gravity of the pandemic. But we have known CO’s relieved of command for lesser things, MANY times.  


 


 

 

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10 minutes ago, SanDiegoMom in VA said:


From https://www.google.com/amp/s/abcnews.go.com/amp/Politics/navy-relieve-captain-aircraft-carrier-leak-letter-leadership/story%3fid=69944944

Modly made clear he did not fault Crozier for wanting to protect his crew, but took issue with how he did not express his concerns with his immediate supervisor, the rear admiral aboard the ship who was in charge of the Roosevelt carrier strike group.”. 
 

“According to Modly, by the time Crozier had written his letter the Navy already had plans to move 2,700 sailors off the carrier and was looking for hotel rooms so they could quarantine and isolate properly. The Navy said Wednesday that it would achieve that goal by the end of the week.”

It undermines our efforts -- and the chain of command's efforts -- to address this problem and creates a panic and creates the perception that the Navy is not on the job, the government's not on the job, and it's just not true," he said.”

He did jump the chain of command, cc’d 20-30 people??. I understand the gravity of the pandemic. But we have known CO’s relieved of command for lesser things, MANY times.  


 


 

 


We all know that’s some BS. Fact is, the RA was ON THE SHIP, part of the command team, and could have pushed the issue of crew safety/health. He didn’t. The CO had the moral courage to say what the RA would not. All of those needed to make tough calls are on carriers. The RA was too cowardly to do the right thing. The CO is being punished for making that cowardice plain. Even more upsetting is not knowing which dipshit approved or insisted (money...duh) on the Vietnam port call to begin with.

Edited by Sneezyone
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Listened to the latest from the pm.  Migrant agriculture workers will still be coming in though they will have to self isolate for 14 days and adequate accommodation be provided . While this will help keep food prices low I think personally it pretty much guarantees we won’t contain this virus. 

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14 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:


We all know that’s some BS. Fact is, the RA was ON THE SHIP, part of the command team, and could have pushed the issue of crew safety/health. He didn’t. The CO had the moral courage to say what the RA would not. All of those needed to make tough calls are on carriers. The RA was too cowardly to do the right thing. The CO is being punished for making that cowardice plain. Even more upsetting is not knowing which dipshit approved or insisted (money...duh) on the Vietnam port call to begin with.

Watching that presser with Modly was infuriating. I have so many words but can't put them here. 

Suffice to say, the CO doesn't write a letter like that and cc people if he's already getting the help he needs. A message is being sent with his firing.

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2 minutes ago, EmseB said:

Watching that presser with Modly was infuriating. I have so many words but can't put them here. 

Suffice to say, the CO doesn't write a letter like that and cc people if he's already getting the help he needs. A message is being sent with his firing.


Exactly. This man gave up his career for those sailors. That’s a VERY rare sacrifice these days.

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6 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:


Exactly. This man gave up his career for those sailors. That’s a VERY rare sacrifice these days.

He’s an O-6 who will be retiring with 28 years of service  - so 75 percent of his base pay, and he will then most likely go on to another career. He will be ok in the long run. 
 

It is a sucky situation and yes he did not get the support he needed from the chain of command. But he embarrassed the Navy. They had no choice. 

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Not directly about the virus, but about what people can do to help others in the current situation ....

I subscribe to emails from a source called "VolunteerMatch" which provides info on many different kinds of volunteer opportunities in various locations.  With people being stuck at home, obviously most of the usual gigs are not available, but today's email was a list of volunteer things you can do at home for various organizations.  Online services, making care packages and encouragement cards for folks in need, sewing masks ....

People have been talking about feeling powerless, and after that discussion I was thinking, we should work on building a feeling of empowerment through engagement in helping at home.  And then that email came out.  😛

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12 minutes ago, SanDiegoMom in VA said:

He’s an O-6 who will be retiring with 28 years of service  - so 75 percent of his base pay, and he will then most likely go on to another career. He will be ok in the long run. 
 

It is a sucky situation and yes he did not get the support he needed from the chain of command. But he embarrassed the Navy. They had no choice. 


Pay is not the end all and be all for these folks. Honor, duty, and reputation are. This RARE bird may even be a true person of faith. Financially, he will be fine but the Navy NEEDS MORE leaders like this, not toadies. This is a colossal leadership failure. I hope the next administration, be it 1-4 years away, purges every last one of the enablers. They need to go home.

Edited by Sneezyone
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55 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

And if everyone is wearing those masks then you have filtering going on both sides which would limit the particulates even further.  

 

I am coming back to this because it’s late, I’m silly-tired, and I can’t stop thinking about those word problems. 

If Mr X is driving east at 65 mph and Mr Y is driving west at 70 mph, and they collide head on...

Heck I can’t even remember the term for what exactly that is trying to calculate - rate of impact, something like that? Anyway, the best realization from the exercise is that people going slower get less hurt. 

Everyone masking up on both ends, even with cloth masks, seems good to me. 

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12 minutes ago, SanDiegoMom in VA said:

He’s an O-6 who will be retiring with 28 years of service  - so 75 percent of his base pay, and he will then most likely go on to another career. He will be ok in the long run. 
 

It is a sucky situation and yes he did not get the support he needed from the chain of command. But he embarrassed the Navy. They had no choice. 

The Navy embarrassed themselves. The Navy needs leaders willing to stick their neck out. They had a choice on who to fire for this debacle and they chose the wrong person.

ETA: To bring this back on topic, the Navy is insanely trying to operate as normal on ships during this pandemic. They are saying that sailors' health is a paramount concern but doing things that show that they are either ignorant of how this virus works or don't care about people's lives or health. And if we were at war those men and women would get on a sick boat and fight to defend this country from a real threat no questions asked because that is what they do. The problem comes when everyone starts to notice the risk is unnecessary and basic measures to protect people aren't being taken.

Edited by EmseB
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I haven't been on here much in the last week.  I've been putting together a bulk buy for fruits, vegetables, and eggs for the Jewish community here in Boston for Passover (and because things are a little scary here in terms of groceries - many things out, lines to get in stores (physical distancing enforced), limits on staple items).  I did a trial run 2.5 weeks ago and got $2K of produce.  I think this time I'm going to get close to $10K.  Also going out masked (Totobobo to the rescue!) and gloved to get food for people unable to get out.  My family is all at home now; the Uni kicked out my husband from his office even though he was the only one on his floor (and in a private office).  Internet is thin (even paying over $100 a month!), computers are always being jockeyed for to do online school for the older kids, and we have Passover starting on Wednesday night.  So the house has to be flipped (all Passover pots, pans, utensils, food.  Covering all surfaces in the kitchen, cleaning the fridge/freezer, oven, cabinets, counters, car and making sure no leaven foods are outside the area they are corralled until after the holiday week) 

My husband's dean did a virtual coffee hour and said Summer 2 (July-August) are going online and to be fully prepared to teach online for Fall 2020.  This is nowhere near over.  I'm a little scared.  I wasn't until this week.

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28 minutes ago, EmseB said:

The Navy embarrassed themselves. The Navy needs leaders willing to stick their neck out. They had a choice on who to fire for this debacle and they chose the wrong person.

ETA: To bring this back on topic, the Navy is insanely trying to operate as normal on ships during this pandemic. They are saying that sailors' health is a paramount concern but doing things that show that they are either ignorant of how this virus works or don't care about people's lives or health. And if we were at war those men and women would get on a sick boat and fight to defend this country from a real threat no questions asked because that is what they do. The problem comes when everyone starts to notice the risk is unnecessary and basic measures to protect people aren't being taken.


They could finally appreciate that strict, less palatable, measures would preserve health and readiness like confining members to bases/ships and curtailing host nationals’ employment OCONUS. There are no easy, comfy, safe options here on the civvy or military side. The fact that they keep defaulting to the least protective, least alarming ones is pathetic. This will go on for months.

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1 hour ago, Seasider too said:

In the link fifuruth shared upthread, one group has actually measured viral protection with hand-sewn masks made of tightly woven fabric (ie quilting cotton) to be as high as 79%. Nothing to sneeze at. 

I wonder if people can purposely shrink the fabric to get even better results. I am not sure how much quilting cotton shrinks, but it could be worth a try. 

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3 minutes ago, kbutton said:

I wonder if people can purposely shrink the fabric to get even better results. I am not sure how much quilting cotton shrinks, but it could be worth a try. 

 

In the “best face mask pattern” thread, Patty Joanna mentioned that she liked using batik fabric because it’s wet and dried several times in the coloring process, which tightens the weave. (Plus they are super pretty, hop over there and look at everyone’s pics if you haven’t already!)

Others mentioned using quilters cotton fabric and washing & drying it before use for the same weave tightening effect. 

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2 hours ago, mommyoffive said:

 

I was going off the graphic that someone had just posted on this page, but now is deleted.  It said for virus that the homemade had 0%

 

https://www.newswise.com/articles/testing-shows-type-of-cloth-used-in-homemade-masks-makes-a-difference-doctors-say

 

Masks are probably particularly helpful for situation like with CV19 where we now clearly know that people may be asymptomatic or presymptomatic spreaders as it tends to keep most of each of our  droplets to ourselves when we may not know whether or not we could be an asymptomatic spreader.  

If each person wears one, ideally a well done one, the combination could be a big help to reduce spread.

Glasses or some eye cover would probably also help.

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1 hour ago, YaelAldrich said:

I haven't been on here much in the last week.  I've been putting together a bulk buy for fruits, vegetables, and eggs for the Jewish community here in Boston for Passover (and because things are a little scary here in terms of groceries - many things out, lines to get in stores (physical distancing enforced), limits on staple items).  I did a trial run 2.5 weeks ago and got $2K of produce.  I think this time I'm going to get close to $10K.  Also going out masked (Totobobo to the rescue!) and gloved to get food for people unable to get out.  My family is all at home now; the Uni kicked out my husband from his office even though he was the only one on his floor (and in a private office).  Internet is thin (even paying over $100 a month!), computers are always being jockeyed for to do online school for the older kids, and we have Passover starting on Wednesday night.  So the house has to be flipped (all Passover pots, pans, utensils, food.  Covering all surfaces in the kitchen, cleaning the fridge/freezer, oven, cabinets, counters, car and making sure no leaven foods are outside the area they are corralled until after the holiday week) 

My husband's dean did a virtual coffee hour and said Summer 2 (July-August) are going online and to be fully prepared to teach online for Fall 2020.  This is nowhere near over.  I'm a little scared.  I wasn't until this week.

Glad to see you back. Where are you sourcing 10K of produce?!?!? 

As for fall 2020, I too am worried that it will be all on-line.  If this comes to pass, we are considering our son taking a gap year.  Face to face is key.

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Blood donation recommendations have changed to allow more donors. I’m eligible but I’m nervous about the amount of people in and out of same space. I can’t decide what I should do. I hate that I’m having to make this choice.

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59 minutes ago, Bootsie said:

Does anyone know if there is a site that has number of people hospitalized with COVID10 by state in the US?

Covid Tracking project has it for the states that provide the number. However, most states don't give the number or give a cumulative number or something that isn't useful. I see only 14 states listed that give the current number.

COVID Tracking Spreadsheet

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18 hours ago, ElizabethB said:

At the northern latitudes, even if you go outside, you are not making vitamin D yet.  Your skin only makes vitamin D when the sun angle is 50 degrees or higher.  For northern latitudes, that is starting to happen around April, and only for a few minutes around solar noon each day...the amount of time around solar noon increases daily until the summer equinox.  People in California can make vitamin D now, much of the northern part of the United States is just starting to enter a time when they can make vitamin D.  Also, you need to have a lot of skin exposed to make significant amounts, and the older you are, the less efficient your body is at making vitamin D from the sun.  

 

I wish this was true because it would mean most of my sponsored kids' families would be fine because they tend to live in countries along the equator. And they tend to live their lives outside. But Ecuador is being hit HARD -- Bodies in the street and everything  It may have an effect, but not enough.

 

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1 hour ago, RootAnn said:

Covid Tracking project has it for the states that provide the number. However, most states don't give the number or give a cumulative number or something that isn't useful. I see only 14 states listed that give the current number.

COVID Tracking Spreadsheet

Thanks.  You are right, there isn't much data there, but it is at least a starting point

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Pinterest CEO and US scientists have launched a new app to try to help track COVID19

"Aimed at users in the US, How We Feel lets individuals self-report their age, gender, zip code and any health symptoms they are experiencing in less than a minute. The aggregate data is then shared with select scientists, doctors and public health professionals who are working to stop the spread of Covid-19 in the US."

 

https://www.siliconrepublic.com/start-ups/how-we-feel-covid-19-data-pinterest-mit

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9 hours ago, square_25 said:

 

I think saying that they can't possibly be using as many masks as they are claiming, and therefore many must be being sold on the black market seems inappropriate whoever exactly is supposed to be selling them... 

Why does it seem inappropriate? Because it might hurt someone's feelings?  If doctors and nurses aren't receiving the masks provided to them, I think it's a fair point, and a newsworthy story.  Trump suggested that the cities (and the reporters) look into it.  Bringing situations such as the one in Cooperstown to light serves as a warning to other hospitals to be vigilant in safeguarding their supplies.

(A quick search brought me to an NBC article published on March 29th: "No Evidence for Trump's suggestion that "masks are going out the back door' of New York hospitals".  Oddly, I haven't yet found NBC coverage of the conflicting story.)  

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1 minute ago, square_25 said:

 

Because we have a DRASTIC shortage of equipment. I doubt more than 5% (being generous, 20%) of the masks are going elsewhere, because that would be an immense quantity of masks. Doctors and nurses are having to reuse PPE. There's NO WAY that tracking down the ones that are being sold on the black market is going to solve the problem. What would solve the problem is finding more equipment. 

Yes, anyone caught doing this should be punished severely. But given that the federal government could be ramping up PPE production and is not, and given that we will NOT have enough masks even if we find every single criminal that has done this, that's just a distraction. 

True.  Lots of distractions in the news these days.

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7 hours ago, lewelma said:

Glad to see you back. Where are you sourcing 10K of produce?!?!? 

As for fall 2020, I too am worried that it will be all on-line.  If this comes to pass, we are considering our son taking a gap year.  Face to face is key.

One of the bigger fruit and veg distributors said they can handle this.  I am guessing they are hurting from so many restaurants closed or doing much less business so I hope it helps them and they will be able to keep helping our community during this time.

I'd be running though gap year scenarios if I were you.

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9 minutes ago, square_25 said:

 

The media can't provide equipment, though. Focusing on the wrong stuff doesn't actually keep equipment away from the hospitals. 

Anyway, it's probably too late for the federal government to use the DPA to make PPE to help NY :-(. It's too bad. I hope people keep donating and stepping up locally. 

I don't know that the feds were "focusing" on ppe theft.  He mentioned it and people took umbrage.  I'm sorry that NY is so hard hit.

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49 minutes ago, square_25 said:

Anyone seen this? 

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/01/nyregion/nyc-coronavirus-cases-map.html

If you know NYC geography, the map is interesting. Manhattan is definitely not particularly hard-hit. The airport also doesn't look like the center of an issue. 

They do seem to be suggesting that larger families that all gather together are the problem. I guess with lots of people in the house, there's a high chance SOMEONE is an "essential worker" :-/. 

These folks keep the city running, lots of service jobs, hotels, cleaning, restaurants, shops, direct care for elderly etc. Their people contact is high.

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10 minutes ago, square_25 said:

 

Well, yes, people took umbrage, because it shifts responsibility. But it's definitely only inappropriate in context -- if they had gotten factories to product tons of PPEs and then were worried because some were unaccountably "missing," that would be different. Instead, there's a lot of incredulity about how vast the numbers are, and theorizing that the numbers aren't really as large as the governors make them out to be. That makes people concerned that they aren't being taken seriously. 

What state are you in, if you don't mind me asking? Do you guys have PPE shortages or no? 

Fair point, though I didn't see it that way.

I'm in Texas (Dallas).  There have been local reports of ppe shortages, but I don't know details.

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10 hours ago, YaelAldrich said:

My husband's dean did a virtual coffee hour and said Summer 2 (July-August) are going online and to be fully prepared to teach online for Fall 2020.  This is nowhere near over.  I'm a little scared.  I wasn't until this week.

My son's university has over 40,000 students and they too are already talking about the fall semester being online.  It's going to be ugly for DS, he has 4 classes left to graduate and 3 of them are science lab classes.

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7 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

It’s uneven backlog between counties.

https://www.kcra.com/article/east-sacramento-gym-raises-bar-community-outreach/32030175

“About 92,500 tests have been administered statewide, but only 32,944 results have been received and another 59,500 are pending, according to California Department of Public Health.

... Newsom said it was a national problem - as is the shortage of tests and a lack of the masks, gloves and other protection healthcare workers must wear to administer tests from people who are possibly carrying the highly contagious virus. 

The state may be able to fast-track test results as more people receive blood-based tests, Newsom said. Testing that relies on taking nasal swabs, the most prominent initial testing measure, is primarily responsible for delays.

The average wait time in Los Angeles County is five to six days, but some results have taken 10 or 12 days, said Barbara Ferrer, the county health director. The county uses a mix of privately and publicly run labs.

...

The wait for a test and the time it takes to get results varies by county and a mix of hospitals and private testing labs. 

Marin County, which relies on a state lab for testing, is limited to conducting 50 tests a day, spokeswoman Laine Hendricks said. It takes two to three days for the state to deliver results. 

Sonoma County, which reported no backlog, is able to test 100 kits a day at its own lab and get results in 24 hours or less, spokeswoman Jennifer Larocque said. 

Orange County’s own lab aims for a two-day turnaround for the 80 to 100 tests it handles a day, but often completes them in 12 to 24 hours, said Megan Crumpler, director of Orange County’s Public Health Laboratory. 

“We’re just fortunate that we’re not getting inundated,” Crumpler said.

Riverside County said its own lab takes one to three days to process results, though private labs take five to seven days, said Jose Arballo Jr of of the county public health agency.”

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1 hour ago, vonfirmath said:

 

I wish this was true because it would mean most of my sponsored kids' families would be fine because they tend to live in countries along the equator. And they tend to live their lives outside. But Ecuador is being hit HARD -- Bodies in the street and everything  It may have an effect, but not enough.

 

 

I think vitamin D could help hugely “all other things being equal” and doing other things that would tend to stop the spread— Stay Home Stay Safe ; distance of at least 2 meters when Stay Home isn’t possible; ...     I’m certainly going to keep taking my D3 as I expect it might well make a difference between being able to survive or not if I do become exposed.  At the same time, I am doing what I can not to be exposed (or if I should happen to have been exposed and be an asymptomatic carrier the same precautions would also help to not expose others ). 

Using Sun to make D also depends on the body having cholesterol to convert into D (I wonder if some places push to “lower cholesterol intake” or perhaps lack of cholesterol containing foods due to culture or poverty would affect making D even if there’s enough sun), and the body has to be able to do the metabolic conversion from skin cholesterol plus sun (probably plus other needed cofactors too) to build Vitamin D.   Even with enough sun apparently many older people no longer metabolize D well. And apparently some younger people also have less good D creating metabolism even if they have the nutritional building blocks and adequate sun.

Having lived in Brazil though, I would say it is not necessarily the case that everyone in an equatorial area gets enough sun for good D production. For example, some older less mobile people may spend time largely indoors and in shade. People who have indoors type occupations (which may include doctors and nurses) may have relatively little sun time and may be dressed to cover most skin.  Skin darkness matters too with regard to how much time needs to spent in sun to make D.

And then, it looks like Ecuador populace lacks a lot of other helpful factors for slowing spread of CV19. 

Pictures I see out of Ecuador show people bunched together, sometimes bunched together while wearing a mask, sometimes not; lack of sufficient PPE etc.;  and performing activities like pouring soapy water in streets and mopping it about which may or may not be particularly useful to Stop Spread... 

Dead and decomposing bodies sounds just awful and seems likely to lead to other health problems too.  

[I noticed that descriptions out of Ecuador sound (and look on news reels) like what people were describing for Wuhan, but that China and WHO denied.]

Do you have any contact with your sponsored kids? 

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1 hour ago, square_25 said:

 

The media can't provide equipment, though. Focusing on the wrong stuff doesn't actually keep equipment away from the hospitals. 

Anyway, it's probably too late for the federal government to use the DPA to make PPE to help NY :-(. It's too bad. I hope people keep donating and stepping up locally. 

 

The Forbes (?) article about huge amounts of masks etc being sold to highest bidders overseas when NY and other domestic hospitals need it so badly deeply concerned me. 

 

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10 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

Possibly OT but if anyone doubts value of the former CO of the Teddy Roosevelt’s leadership, this is the send off he justifiably received. Going out like a boss. https://thehill.com/policy/defense/490979-sailors-cheer-navy-captain-who-was-removed-after-pleading-for-help-with

 

And I don’t know what he will do next, but whatever it is, a lot of people will see him as a hero, and I expect will want to help. 

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@square_25 I don’t know this publication but it alsocame from my search 

https://theintercept.com/2020/04/01/coronavirus-medical-supplies-export/

 

ETA I guess flipside is that if USA cases hadn’t blown up, we would have been criticized by international community and probably domestic press and many, many American people for “putting America first” and hoarding supplies while Asia and Europe needed them.  (And, ironically, if more PPE had been kept, and rapidly issued to first responders and medical workers, perhaps our numbers would have been lower, making it seem like keeping the equipment here was not justified.) 

 

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12 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

And I don’t know what he will do next, but whatever it is, a lot of people will see him as a hero, and I expect will want to help. 


Indeed. People who distinguish themselves in times of crisis always prosper in the end. We need more leaders like this.

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2 hours ago, square_25 said:

Anyone seen this? 

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/01/nyregion/nyc-coronavirus-cases-map.html

If you know NYC geography, the map is interesting. Manhattan is definitely not particularly hard-hit. The airport also doesn't look like the center of an issue. 

They do seem to be suggesting that larger families that all gather together are the problem. I guess with lots of people in the house, there's a high chance SOMEONE is an "essential worker" :-/. 

My suspicion is that it has to do with viral load. If you have someone in a large family who starts to get it and spreads ir to other family members then you have a lot of the virus clustered in one place. 

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