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36 minutes ago, Mom2mthj said:

There is nothing about where we are globally that could be called a “good place”.   There will be ruffled feathers and I think think is a good example of why closer attention should be paid to where important items are being produced.  I hope that lesson won’t be forgotten once the crisis has passed.  I don’t know all the details of the shipment to Germany, but it may be that they were not that company’s to sell to that buyer when the deal was made.  Things to be thankful for...that I am not the one negotiating all these deals.  I can barely keep my house clean without making people mad.

No kidding.  Our pm is not my favourite person but I feel kind of sorry for him right now.  

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DS got home 3 hours ago!  ❤️❤️

Update-  my youngest is not only short of breath, coughing, dizzy, nausaues, and with headache-  she is also confused.  I called our doctor and talked with him and she is going to be going to the ER.

Thought I'd post a pic of my dd, getting ready to spend another day in a coronavirus triage tent!  

28 minutes ago, Terabith said:

I see a huge difference between saying, "We will no longer export this product," (after fulfilling already placed orders) and seizing shipments on the way to a place.  I also do not understand telling states to bid against each other and the federal government bidding against them.  I don't understand why the federal government needs PPE or ventilators if it's not for the people in states (or territories or DC).  Who is it for then???  I'm quite sure that square's 7 year old could organize this better than it is being organized.  

Also, it's important to note that the US seized this order after not even not only not invoking the Defense Production Act but not even PLACING ORDERS.  

I also see a difference between not allowing products that were manufactured in the US to leave the country, versus seizing shipments that were manufactured in China and legally sold to a 3rd country.  France is also claiming that US buyers stole a desperately needed shipment bound for France by paying three times the price, in cash, while the plane sat on the tarmac in Shanghai. That's just slimy. We are basically stealing orders from countries that planned better than we did, in order to cover up just how disorganized and screwed up the US response has been. 🤬

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3 hours ago, regentrude said:

I only saw the radio report, not a scientific study. He did not give details.
They started this week conducting a detailed study in the town that is one of the epicenters, but results are not yet available.

 

Maybe scientific study will come out so that we can read it. 

Culturing the virus might also have issues if the human cells I presume are being used for the culture medium are more or less susceptible to being infected by the virus.  And the in vitro culture may not be same as what happens if someone breathes the virus on into real lungs. 

 

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7 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

I also see a difference between not allowing products that were manufactured in the US to leave the country, versus seizing shipments that were manufactured in China and legally sold to a 3rd country.  France is also claiming that US buyers stole a desperately needed shipment bound for France by paying three times the price, in cash, while the plane sat on the tarmac in Shanghai. That's just slimy. We are basically stealing orders from countries that planned better than we did, in order to cover up just how disorganized and screwed up the US response has been. 🤬

 

I am pretty sure I have seen reverse asserted also — maybe in Forbes? Or USA Today ? Can’t recall.  That foreign entities outbid US entities trying to get supplies. 

 

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2 hours ago, square_25 said:

But the DPA was only invoked for ventilators.  I don't know the status on those, but I'd be interested if you know.

The news from 5 days ago from here said that NZ was trying to purchase 200 ventilators and had to be 'wily' to get them because the USA was attempting to buy 100,000 which was the entire annual world-wide production.  

When the government spokesman said 'wily' that got us thinking.  Perhaps it is not about have the money to purchase, perhaps now it is about having something the other wants in *trade*. So NZ will sell you N95 masks if you sell us ventilators.  My guess is that this will become more and more common.  Something in trade in addition to the $$.  Unfortunately, not all countries have something to trade that is in huge demand in a pandemic. 

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2 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

I am pretty sure I have seen reverse asserted also — maybe in Forbes? Or USA Today ? Can’t recall.  That foreign entities outbid US entities trying to get supplies. 

 

Outbidding another country on a contract for a future order is one thing, stealing an order that had already been contracted and was in the process of fulfillment is another.

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If you follow the FEMA FB page you can see where some of the stockpile is going. 


Tuesday

We are currently coordinating flights from Asia to deliver medical equipment and supplies for COVID-19 relief as part of Project AirBridge.

On Sunday, 130,000 N95s masks, 1.8 million face masks and gowns, 10.3M gloves and thousands of thermometers arrived at JFK Airport.

Yesterday, over 15 million gloves arrived to Chicago, IL to distribute to counties with critical medical needs. 

More flights are planned to arrive daily. All supplies will be provided first to medical distributors in areas of greatest need, then into the broader U.S. supply chain. Prioritization will be given to hospitals, health care facilities, and nursing homes around the country.

Learn more: fema.gov/coronavirus

Tuesday

We deployed Incident Management Assistance team members to support the Navajo Nation, the largest land-based tribal nation currently experiencing the highest number of COVID-19 cases.

The Arizona National Guard set up 50 hospital beds in a Chinle medical facility. They also sent medical professionals to Tuba City to continue to assess the medical needs of the community.

Public assistance is available to tribal governments and can be requested by notifying FEMA regional offices. To learn more about the process, visit: https://www.fema.gov/news-release/2020/03/26/coronavirus-covid-19-fema-assistance-tribal-governments

Wednesday 

This week, FEMA continues to support states and territories across the nation in taking active measures to fight #COVID19:

🔹 The Liacouras Center in Philadelphia was transformed into a medical care site with supplies provided by FEMA, U.S. Department of Health and Human Services and CDC. 

🔹 Soldiers from the 627th Army Hospital based in Fort Carson, Colorado are setting up the CenturyLink Field Event Center to treat patients without COVID-19 & help Puget Sound area hospitals.

🔹 Hawaii received a shipment of personal protective equipment yesterday, which is being sorted and distributed to help care for patients locally and in the Northern Mariana Islands (CNMI), Guam, and American Samoa.

🔹 Stacks of supplies were also delivered to a warehouse in Carson City, Nevada. We worked with the state to distribute PPE to nearby areas.

Thursday 

International flights bringing critical medical supplies continue daily as part of Project Air Bridge. 

The cargo on these flights is first sent by medical distributors to priority counties identified by FEMA and U.S. Department of Health and Human Services. The remainder is infused into the broader U.S. supply chain. 

Flights are added daily to bring medical resources to our healthcare facilities across the nation. Recently, flights landed in:

🔹 Miami, FL with 43,000lbs of surgical gowns

🔹 Los Angeles, California with 13 million gloves

🔹 Chicago, Illinois with 17.8 million gloves

🔹 Columbus, Ohio with 12.5 million gloves

Learn more about the response efforts at: fema.gov/coronavirus

 

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20 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

I also see a difference between not allowing products that were manufactured in the US to leave the country, versus seizing shipments that were manufactured in China and legally sold to a 3rd country.  France is also claiming that US buyers stole a desperately needed shipment bound for France by paying three times the price, in cash, while the plane sat on the tarmac in Shanghai. That's just slimy. We are basically stealing orders from countries that planned better than we did, in order to cover up just how disorganized and screwed up the US response has been. 🤬

But was the company that did the manufacturing US owned?  I’m not arguing with you just trying to understand the implications of this kind of action.  Our power network is majority owned by a Hong Kong based company.  I’m going to post what’s a ridiculous scenario; If there was somehow a sudden shortage of power poles around the world could they technically come and dig the power pole up from outside my house and take it to Hong Kong?  Or would they be illegal?

a more realistic example is a lot of massive farms in Aus are being bought by foreign investors.  When older farming families want to sell out there’s rarely enough money locally to outbid foreign investors.  In the (scarily possibile) scenario that there is a global food shortage does Australia have any say as to whether that food produced on Australian soil by a foreign owned country actually leaves its shore or not?

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1 minute ago, Ausmumof3 said:

But was the company that did the manufacturing US owned?  I’m not arguing with you just trying to understand the implications of this kind of action.  Our power network is majority owned by a Hong Kong based company.  I’m going to post what’s a ridiculous scenario; If there was somehow a sudden shortage of power poles around the world could they technically come and dig the power pole up from outside my house and take it to Hong Kong?  Or would they be illegal?

a more realistic example is a lot of massive farms in Aus are being bought by foreign investors.  When older farming families want to sell out there’s rarely enough money locally to outbid foreign investors.  In the (scarily possibile) scenario that there is a global food shortage does Australia have any say as to whether that food produced on Australian soil by a foreign owned country actually leaves its shore or not?

The masks were manufactured in China by a US-owned company (3M). And I agree with you that the precedent this sets would be very concerning for the future, if products — including food — produced by foreign-owned businesses could be seized by those foreign governments if they chose. More than 30 million acres of US farmland are owned by foreign companies and investors. Smithfield Foods, the largest pork producer in the world, is Chinese owned. If the US can seize masks manufactured in China and sold to Europe, then what's to stop the Chinese from seizing food and other goods produced in the US if there's a shortage of those things? 

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7 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

But was the company that did the manufacturing US owned?...If there was somehow a sudden shortage of power poles around the world could they technically come and dig the power pole up from outside my house and take it to Hong Kong?  

As for international companies and power over national supplies, we have sad news here in NZ.

Bauer, a German company, owns all of our national news magazines (we have 4 - The Listnener, North and South, Woman's Day, and Next).  They chose to close up shop and stop all production last week.  They would not take a government subsidy, and they tried to sell them to the government for 1$ but apparently they had massive debt and a huge retirement debt. The government did not feel it should be the owner of the news, so didn't take on the debt and take them over. People here are very sad.  These are not just *some* magazines, they are *all* of our magazines. Bauer was clearly already in a poor position going into the pandemic, but advertising has dried up due to Covid19 and they don't expect it will ever recover to pre Covid19 levels.  So they have just shut down our cultural heritage. Would this be the same if it was a NZ company?  I just don't think so.  

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6 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

But was the company that did the manufacturing US owned?

 

Not sure.  I think it has mostly been an issue with 3M which is a US based corporation. But I don’t know details for shipments in question.

certainly not “US owned “ in literal sense of a government owned company. Not like a communist country might literally own everything 

6 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

 I’m not arguing with you just trying to understand the implications of this kind of action.  Our power network is majority owned by a Hong Kong based company.  I’m going to post what’s a ridiculous scenario; If there was somehow a sudden shortage of power poles around the world could they technically come and dig the power pole up from outside my house and take it to Hong Kong?  Or would they be illegal?

a more realistic example is a lot of massive farms in Aus are being bought by foreign investors.  When older farming families want to sell out there’s rarely enough money locally to outbid foreign investors.  In the (scarily possibile) scenario that there is a global food shortage does Australia have any say as to whether that food produced on Australian soil by a foreign owned country actually leaves its shore or not?

 

Yes. Potentially that would probably be legal if it is their power pole.

It is quite frightening. We also have much land on west coast of US bought up by Chinese entities, and similar in other parts of US with other countries predominant.   There’s a big question about US versus China (etc) rights to it.   Some countries have significant limits on purchase of land etc by foreign governments, businesses and nationals.  I guess Australia and USA don’t so much. 

Possibly eminent domain laws would allow a certain amount of control.

 

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7 minutes ago, lewelma said:

As for international companies and power over national supplies, we have sad news here in NZ.

Bauer, a German company, owns all of our national news magazines (we have 4 - The Listnener, North and South, Woman's Day, and Next).  They chose to close up shop and stop all production last week.  They would not take a government subsidy, and they tried to sell them to the government for 1$ but apparently they had massive debt and a huge retirement debt. The government did not feel it should be the owner of the news, so didn't take on the debt and take them over. People here are very sad.  These are not just *some* magazines, they are *all* of our magazines. Bauer was clearly already in a poor position going into the pandemic, but advertising has dried up due to Covid19 and they don't expect it will ever recover to pre Covid19 levels.  So they have just shut down our cultural heritage. Would this be the same if it was a NZ company?  I just don't think so.  

All our little local newspapers just closed as well.  Now I’m curious to check who owned them.

edited to add looks like they were owned by News Corp Australia. (Subsidiary arm of news Corp)

I am glad we have the ABC as a bit of a counterbalance to the for profit news though I wouldn’t want to see all news gov owned.

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@Ausmumof3@Pen 

Don’t know where Holland America are going to house these passengers in Atlanta and San Francisco. Coral Princess is another mess.

https://www.businessinsider.com/holland-america-florida-ships-zaandam-rotterdam-flight-details-2020-4

“In its approved plan, Holland America included information on what will be done for any guests "whose home countries will not accept inbound citizens."

"These guests will be flown on the Atlanta or San Francisco charter flights on Friday," the document said.”

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/coronavirus/article241768491.html

“Two people have died aboard the Coral Princess, which docked in Port Miami Saturday morning and began to unload people shortly after. 

Miami-Dade Mayor Carlos Gimenez said two people were taken from the ship to Larkin Community Hospital. Two others are being sent to Tampa for treatment. During an online press conference, Gimenez offered condolences to family members of two passengers who died aboard the Princess. “It’s heart-breaking news,” he said.”

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@TCB@Pen@mathnerd  explains about the prone position being used in hospitals in the last two paragraphs 

https://www.nbcbayarea.com/investigations/hospitals-running-short-of-key-ventilator-drug/2267317/?_osource=SocialFlowFB_BAYBrand

““It’s another shortage of concern,” said UCSF pulmonologist John Balmes, about the two scarce paralytic drugs, cisatracurium and rocuronium. Both help those patients with acute respiratory distress syndrome, ARDS, efficiently use the flow of oxygen while ventilators are keeping them alive. 

Jennifer Esteen, a San Francisco General psychiatric nurse and union organizer, confirms the shortages at SF General, where a dozen patients are in the intensive care unit and nine are currently on ventilators.

“They are not in an emergency today, but given the rate of admissions,” Esteen says, “and need for ventilators increasing,  they are expecting to have an increase of these drugs that go with people being on ventilators.”

University of Utah adjunct professor Erin Fox, who tracks drug shortages nationwide, says that rocuronium was short even before the COVID-19 outbreak. Also running short, she says, are sedatives used during the intubation process to put patients on ventilators –  with the three most used being midazolam, propofol and fentanyl.  

“All those medicines, we need more than we have ever needed before … we need a huge surge of these,” she says. “So just like people are talking about we need more masks, we need more ventilators -- you actually can’t make a ventilator work for a patient unless you have the sedatives and the paralytic agents that you need.” 

Dr. Balmes said the paralytic drugs serve to immobilize skeletal muscles so patients with ARDS need less oxygen to survive, given the syndrome deprives them of oxygen as fluid fills their lungs. 

“It makes it harder to treat severe COVID-19 ARDS” without the drugs, he said. “It’s already hard enough because these patients are very sick.”

Balmes said the only option doctors may be left with is placing patients prone on their stomach, which helps to restrict their natural breathing while they are sedated. 

But that process is labor intensive, requires specially designed beds, and is difficult to perform when hospitals are trying to care for so many patients at once, authorities say. Several patients at SF General have been treated by being placed in the prone position.”

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8 minutes ago, Arcadia said:

@Ausmumof3@Pen 

Don’t know where Holland America are going to house these passengers in Atlanta and San Francisco. Coral Princess is another mess.

https://www.businessinsider.com/holland-america-florida-ships-zaandam-rotterdam-flight-details-2020-4

“In its approved plan, Holland America included information on what will be done for any guests "whose home countries will not accept inbound citizens."

"These guests will be flown on the Atlanta or San Francisco charter flights on Friday," the document said.”

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/coronavirus/article241768491.html

“Two people have died aboard the Coral Princess, which docked in Port Miami Saturday morning and began to unload people shortly after. 

Miami-Dade Mayor Carlos Gimenez said two people were taken from the ship to Larkin Community Hospital. Two others are being sent to Tampa for treatment. During an online press conference, Gimenez offered condolences to family members of two passengers who died aboard the Princess. “It’s heart-breaking news,” he said.”

Nsw police were running their biggest ever peace time operation today to restock and refuel cruise ships so they can leave.   They called it operation nemesis.  Which seemed... appropriate.

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11 minutes ago, Arcadia said:

@TCB@Pen@mathnerd  explains about the prone position being used in hospitals in the last two paragraphs 

https://www.nbcbayarea.com/investigations/hospitals-running-short-of-key-ventilator-drug/2267317/?_osource=SocialFlowFB_BAYBrand

““It’s another shortage of concern,” said UCSF pulmonologist John Balmes, about the two scarce paralytic drugs, cisatracurium and rocuronium. Both help those patients with acute respiratory distress syndrome, ARDS, efficiently use the flow of oxygen while ventilators are keeping them alive. 

Jennifer Esteen, a San Francisco General psychiatric nurse and union organizer, confirms the shortages at SF General, where a dozen patients are in the intensive care unit and nine are currently on ventilators.

“They are not in an emergency today, but given the rate of admissions,” Esteen says, “and need for ventilators increasing,  they are expecting to have an increase of these drugs that go with people being on ventilators.”

University of Utah adjunct professor Erin Fox, who tracks drug shortages nationwide, says that rocuronium was short even before the COVID-19 outbreak. Also running short, she says, are sedatives used during the intubation process to put patients on ventilators –  with the three most used being midazolam, propofol and fentanyl.  

“All those medicines, we need more than we have ever needed before … we need a huge surge of these,” she says. “So just like people are talking about we need more masks, we need more ventilators -- you actually can’t make a ventilator work for a patient unless you have the sedatives and the paralytic agents that you need.” 

Dr. Balmes said the paralytic drugs serve to immobilize skeletal muscles so patients with ARDS need less oxygen to survive, given the syndrome deprives them of oxygen as fluid fills their lungs. 

“It makes it harder to treat severe COVID-19 ARDS” without the drugs, he said. “It’s already hard enough because these patients are very sick.”

Balmes said the only option doctors may be left with is placing patients prone on their stomach, which helps to restrict their natural breathing while they are sedated. 

But that process is labor intensive, requires specially designed beds, and is difficult to perform when hospitals are trying to care for so many patients at once, authorities say. Several patients at SF General have been treated by being placed in the prone position.”

 

What has happened to opiates or opioids seized as “illegal drug trade” drugs I wonder.  

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33 minutes ago, Arcadia said:

@TCB@Pen@mathnerd  explains about the prone position being used in hospitals in the last two paragraphs 

https://www.nbcbayarea.com/investigations/hospitals-running-short-of-key-ventilator-drug/2267317/?_osource=SocialFlowFB_BAYBrand

““It’s another shortage of concern,” said UCSF pulmonologist John Balmes, about the two scarce paralytic drugs, cisatracurium and rocuronium. Both help those patients with acute respiratory distress syndrome, ARDS, efficiently use the flow of oxygen while ventilators are keeping them alive. 

Jennifer Esteen, a San Francisco General psychiatric nurse and union organizer, confirms the shortages at SF General, where a dozen patients are in the intensive care unit and nine are currently on ventilators.

“They are not in an emergency today, but given the rate of admissions,” Esteen says, “and need for ventilators increasing,  they are expecting to have an increase of these drugs that go with people being on ventilators.”

University of Utah adjunct professor Erin Fox, who tracks drug shortages nationwide, says that rocuronium was short even before the COVID-19 outbreak. Also running short, she says, are sedatives used during the intubation process to put patients on ventilators –  with the three most used being midazolam, propofol and fentanyl.  

“All those medicines, we need more than we have ever needed before … we need a huge surge of these,” she says. “So just like people are talking about we need more masks, we need more ventilators -- you actually can’t make a ventilator work for a patient unless you have the sedatives and the paralytic agents that you need.” 

Dr. Balmes said the paralytic drugs serve to immobilize skeletal muscles so patients with ARDS need less oxygen to survive, given the syndrome deprives them of oxygen as fluid fills their lungs. 

“It makes it harder to treat severe COVID-19 ARDS” without the drugs, he said. “It’s already hard enough because these patients are very sick.”

Balmes said the only option doctors may be left with is placing patients prone on their stomach, which helps to restrict their natural breathing while they are sedated. 

But that process is labor intensive, requires specially designed beds, and is difficult to perform when hospitals are trying to care for so many patients at once, authorities say. Several patients at SF General have been treated by being placed in the prone position.”

This plus vent shortage (eta plus the PPE required to intubate, the danger to HCW during intubation), plus the struggle to get intubated patients off the ventilator is why many are looking at how to avoid intubation completely through high oxygen nasal cannula, non-invasive ventilation helmets, positive airway pressure units, and anything else they can figure out to avoid it. 

You have a 50/50 chance to get off of a ventilator once put on. (see MedCram #49) 

Edited by Plum
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22 minutes ago, Arcadia said:

@Ausmumof3@Pen 

Don’t know where Holland America are going to house these passengers in Atlanta and San Francisco. Coral Princess is another mess.

https://www.businessinsider.com/holland-america-florida-ships-zaandam-rotterdam-flight-details-2020-4

“In its approved plan, Holland America included information on what will be done for any guests "whose home countries will not accept inbound citizens."

"These guests will be flown on the Atlanta or San Francisco charter flights on Friday," the document said.”

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/coronavirus/article241768491.html

“Two people have died aboard the Coral Princess, which docked in Port Miami Saturday morning and began to unload people shortly after. 

Miami-Dade Mayor Carlos Gimenez said two people were taken from the ship to Larkin Community Hospital. Two others are being sent to Tampa for treatment. During an online press conference, Gimenez offered condolences to family members of two passengers who died aboard the Princess. “It’s heart-breaking news,” he said.”

 

Sounds like they are trying to fly them to wherever “home” is via charter flights , so maybe  they are to be housed in whatever home they normally would reside in?  Unless Country that’s home has a quarantine facility ready? 

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3 hours ago, Arctic Mama said:

Square, 

That’s what I said.  The change happened but the lag in understanding of the severity, especially within the public, was very understandable.  The messages being sent among the task force and advisory counsel drastically changed in tone too.  There has been much criticism about the response, but the fact is the ever changing data and adjustments to it are to be expected instead of criticized. 
 

The retrospective is good for data moving forward, but it’s easy to criticize with the benefit of hindsight and not really productive to assessments moving forward.  Again, the problem is not what was done, and when, so much as whether the feds and states corrected course when the situation changed and they understood it better.  I’d say many states and our feds have actually done well with course correction, even if it wasn’t as fast as many would have liked to see.  
 

They are being responsive the input and data and expert review, trying to fix holes when found, and cam the nation while letting people know the seriousness at the same time.  That is an almost impossible situation and one where not everyone will be happy no matter what is decided upon, especially with the baked in hatred with this administration that sometimes clouds fairness.

Baked in hatred? Anyone following tweets and statements from our leader who is not appalled, embarrassed, aghast, and worried is a huge puzzlement to me. Speaking of Germany, again, a model of excellence and wonderful contrast. I’m guessing Merkel doesn’t have an unqualified SIL leading much of Germany’s response.

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1 minute ago, Pen said:

 

Sounds like they are trying to fly them to wherever “home” is via charter flights , so maybe  they are to be housed in whatever home they normally would reside in?  Unless Country that’s home has a quarantine facility ready? 

I read it as those countries has closed inbound flights so these passengers would have to be “quarantined” in Atlanta and San Francisco. 

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3 hours ago, Arctic Mama said:

You don’t seem a ramping up? Multiple companies have converted facilities or are in process and at least three companies are being leaned on to switch over production with threat of the defense production act. Which, is better than forcing them into it, from a liberty standpoint. 
 

There is still a lag, but it’s being worked on.  I’d like to hear better numbers of he current shortage compared to need, though.

We’re still barely testing in my state, despite being one of the earliest states with a confirmed case. Of the seven people from five families I know who likely had it, none could get tested. 

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3 minutes ago, Arcadia said:

I read it as those countries has closed inbound flights so these passengers would have to be “quarantined” in Atlanta and San Francisco. 

 

Mhmm.  IDK? 

I thought it sounded like charter flights were arranged for passengers to be repatriated back to UK, Australia, or other cities in US, etc.  But it might be the way you thought.

Dont most countries still allow their own citizens to return home?

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3 minutes ago, Frances said:

We’re still barely testing in my state, despite being one of the earliest states with a confirmed case. Of the seven people from five families I know who likely had it, none could get tested. 

How awful.  😞 We are currently at a capacity of 6000 tests/day, and only 3000 are being used. Now that we have excess capacity, they are planning a randomized testing regime to evaluate community spread. 

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Has this been posted?  Google tracking of movement by country, and by state within USA. It does not show good compliance with lockdown requirements in the US in any state. Compare the stats to any country with a strict lockdown.

Square, what needs to be focused on *right now* is compliance with clear and strict lockdown rules. 

https://www.google.com/covid19/mobility/

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28 minutes ago, Pen said:

Mhmm.  IDK? 

I thought it sounded like charter flights were arranged for passengers to be repatriated back to UK, Australia, or other cities in US, etc.  But it might be the way you thought.

Dont most countries still allow their own citizens to return home?

 

I am not sure about "most countries" allowing their own citizens to return home. Colombia, during this crisis, will only allow Colombian citizens who are residents of Colombia, or, aliens like me, who are  permanent residents and actually live here, to enter Colombia.

However...   The airports in  Colombia are closed to International flights and I believe that approximately 90% of Domestic flights have been cancelled.

And then, if one can enter Colombia, assuming they are not coming from a country that is prohibited, due to high incidence of Covid-19, they would need to do a Quarantine or "Shelter in Place" for approximately 14 days.  

I believe that many countries have imposed laws similar to those here in Colombia. My wife told me a few days ago that she read or heard that Colombia is ranked #3 in the steps they have taken to reduce the number of Covid-19 cases/deaths and my belief is that is quite possibly true.

The "humanitarian" flights that the U.S. Embassy has arranged for stranded tourists, in the emails about them, they indicate that one cannot buy Food or Water (bottled) in El Dorado airport in Bogota.  I think it is almost desterted except for those occasional flights, or charter flights. I believe the Cargo flights are arriving and departing normally.

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1 hour ago, Pen said:

 

Sounds like they are trying to fly them to wherever “home” is via charter flights , so maybe  they are to be housed in whatever home they normally would reside in?  Unless Country that’s home has a quarantine facility ready? 

No, there is a list of the other flights they are putting international passengers on, which will be going to Canada, France, Germany, and the UK. The part Arcadia quoted applies to passengers whose home countries will not accept them — those passengers are being put on the flights with US passengers to SF and Atlanta, but there is no information in the report about what will happen to them after that. 

 In its approved plan, Holland America included information on what will be done for any guests whose home countries will not accept inbound citizens. These guests will be flown on the Atlanta or San Francisco charter flights on Friday, the document said.

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51 minutes ago, Pen said:

I thought it sounded like charter flights were arranged for passengers to be repatriated back to UK, Australia, or other cities in US, etc.  But it might be the way you thought.

Dont most countries still allow their own citizens to return home?

Yes, most citizens are allowed in, but there is no way to get to there. In NZ 100,000 tourists were stranded here because when the lockdown was announced, it gave only 48 hours notice before NO internal travel would be allowed.  Although you could illegally drive to Auckland to catch an international flight (if you could get one during that time), if you were in the South Island, you had 48 hours to get a ferry or airplane before they were stopped. 

Seven days into the lockdown, the government has finally allowed tourists to take internal flights IF you could show that they were flying home out of Auckland. And Air NZ was chartering special internal flights just for this purpose.  In addition, there is a real problem for tourists from Europe getting home.  There are simply NO transit lounges that are open, and the flight is too long to do in one hop.  So NZ, Germany, and the UK  have worked with the Doha airport to allow transit to get these people home. Sounds like they are going to try to get the job done in the next 2 weeks through charter flights.

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Well, this is disappointing if it holds true...

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/27/opinion/coronavirus-trump-testing-shortages.html

In three to four weeks, there will be a major shortage of chemical reagents for coronavirus testing, the result of limited production capacity, compounded by the collapse of global supply chains when the epidemic closed down manufacturing in China for weeks.

 

... any public health response that counts on widespread testing in the United States is doomed to fail. No one planned on the whole world experiencing a health conflagration of this magnitude at once, with the need to test many millions of people at the same time. Political leaders and talking heads should stop proffering the widespread-testing option; it simply won’t be available.

 

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It's surprising to me how different communities are so varied in their mask use. Yesterday, Dh and I went to Super 1 and probably 1/3 of the customers wore a mask. Today, I went to a store about 35 miles away, and I thought I was the only one with a mask until I saw one more person in the check out with one on. 

Come on people, get with the program.

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56 minutes ago, Math teacher said:

Come on people, get with the program.

since the recommendation is fairly new, it will take time for people to be able to acquire masks. It's not like you can go out and buy them in stores. Not everybody sews or has materials. Ordering and shipping takes time

Edited by regentrude
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3 hours ago, Corraleno said:

The masks were manufactured in China by a US-owned company (3M). And I agree with you that the precedent this sets would be very concerning for the future, if products — including food — produced by foreign-owned businesses could be seized by those foreign governments if they chose. More than 30 million acres of US farmland are owned by foreign companies and investors. Smithfield Foods, the largest pork producer in the world, is Chinese owned. If the US can seize masks manufactured in China and sold to Europe, then what's to stop the Chinese from seizing food and other goods produced in the US if there's a shortage of those things? 

I think scenarios like this are coming to the forefront during this crisis.  Never before in human history have we had so much international ownership (and general corporate ownership of agriculture) and production of critical supplies.  In this mad rush that we have had to find the absolute cheapest location to make goods and allowing purchases of domestic companies by foreign entities, I think the potential consequences have been overlooked.  It is all a very tangled up mess that we are going to have to sort through.  Any time one produces a product in a foreign country while being based in another country or registers a cruise ship in a foreign country one opens oneself up to a very big can of worms in an unstable situation.  Hopefully we learn for the next time.

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I am having trouble getting my head around some of the numbers.  Louisiana is considered a hotspot.  According to the Louisiana Dept of Health they have 1726 people hospitalized, with 571 of those individuals on ventilators.  

When I look at the COVID-19 projections of the government model, it projects 6555 hospital beds needed by April 4 (with a range of 3073-9580) and 913 ventilators (307-1438), assuming full social distancing.  

While it is not good to have anyone sick or hospitalized, the number in Louisiana is only 26% of the government's projection.  In fact, it is only 56% of the minimum projected.  

About 4% of the reported US cases are in Louisiana.  If the same percentage of cases are hospitalized on other states, that would mean about 44,300 hospitalized in the US.  But the government's model projects 164,745 beds needed today (which is over 1/2 of the active cases in the US today).

It looks like the numbers are much better than what the government has been projecting if we were practicing full social distancing.  

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2 hours ago, TracyP said:

Well, this is disappointing if it holds true...

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/27/opinion/coronavirus-trump-testing-shortages.html

In three to four weeks, there will be a major shortage of chemical reagents for coronavirus testing, the result of limited production capacity, compounded by the collapse of global supply chains when the epidemic closed down manufacturing in China for weeks.

 

... any public health response that counts on widespread testing in the United States is doomed to fail. No one planned on the whole world experiencing a health conflagration of this magnitude at once, with the need to test many millions of people at the same time. Political leaders and talking heads should stop proffering the widespread-testing option; it simply won’t be available.

 

We’re going to have to make for ourselves. 

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3 hours ago, Frances said:

We’re still barely testing in my state, despite being one of the earliest states with a confirmed case. Of the seven people from five families I know who likely had it, none could get tested. 

 

There’s not only a very limited supply of testing materials, but also lack of personnel and lack of PPE. Doing a test a health worker has to very close to test subject, a problem with PPE shortages.  Also if transmission can occur from surfaces the health worker could pass it from one test subject to next because there certainly aren’t PPE changes available for after each test done.

 I heard that for latter problems they are looking into possible self swabbing.  

But that won’t help the lack of test materials needed.

 

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4 hours ago, Corraleno said:

I also see a difference between not allowing products that were manufactured in the US to leave the country, versus seizing shipments that were manufactured in China and legally sold to a 3rd country.  France is also claiming that US buyers stole a desperately needed shipment bound for France by paying three times the price, in cash, while the plane sat on the tarmac in Shanghai. That's just slimy. We are basically stealing orders from countries that planned better than we did, in order to cover up just how disorganized and screwed up the US response has been. 🤬

 

And that upbidding game is being played with the people’s tax dollars. 

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1 hour ago, regentrude said:

since the recommendation is fairly new, it will take time for people to be able to acquire masks. It's not like you can go out and buy them in stores. Not everybody sews or has materials. Ordering and shipping takes time

 

A pillowcase and 2 rubber bands.  A pillow case and 4 rubber bands can make 2 masks.  

In this video, the person has a bandana and hair ties, but cutting a pillowcase in half will do the same job.

 

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2 minutes ago, Garga said:

 

A pillowcase and 2 rubber bands.  A pillow case and 4 rubber bands can make 2 masks.  

In this video, the person has a bandana and hair ties, but cutting a pillowcase in half will do the same job.

 

Yup.  It's very simple to make a mask of some kind with some kind of material. 

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2 minutes ago, Garga said:

 

A pillowcase and 2 rubber bands.  A pillow case and 4 rubber bands can make 2 masks.  

In this video, the person has a bandana and hair ties, but cutting a pillowcase in half will do the same job.

 

 

I saw a lot of these in the grocery store locally! (Also saw big burly men with plastic - from a trash bag? a tablecloth? - tied around their faces.)

Our grocery is limiting customers, and has huge 6-foot-spaced lines all outside the store, like Black Friday, under police supervision. We waited 30 minutes to get into the grocery store; it shows how spoiled I am that that's the first time that has ever happened to me.

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Can someone update me on the 5 minute test for Covid19. My dad told me about it this morning, and I see it was in the news from 2-4 days ago.  Why are we not hearing more about it?

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21 minutes ago, lewelma said:

Can someone update me on the 5 minute test for Covid19. My dad told me about it this morning, and I see it was in the news from 2-4 days ago.  Why are we not hearing more about it?

 

7 minutes ago, Pen said:

Someone posted Abbott’s latest press release upthread 

From their Twitter 

“By the end of the day, we’ll have shipped 190,000+ rapid tests and nearly 1 million lab tests to customers across the U.S. Read our update on our progress on COVID-19 testing: http://abbo.tt/3aeFwPe

ETA: https://mobile.twitter.com/AbbottNews/status/1246168895716810758

Edited by Arcadia
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37 minutes ago, Garga said:

A pillowcase and 2 rubber bands.  A pillow case and 4 rubber bands can make 2 masks.  

In this video, the person has a bandana and hair ties, but cutting a pillowcase in half will do the same job.

I tried that just awhile ago. With this design, you end up with eight layers of fabric. I found it very difficult to breathe. Gotta look for different material.

How do you glasses wearers handle this? First, my glasses fog up really bad, second, the elastic behind my ears interferes with my glasses. Gotta rig something with ties.

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4 hours ago, square_25 said:

The only reason I blame the federal government more is because nationwide pandemics are traditionally their domain. 

Actually, not really.  There are so many cdc and hhs guidelines issued at least over the last 10-20 years that are geared specifically for businesses and local and state governments, and how to be ready and self-reliant for a national pandemic. They clarify that a national pandemic is going to mess up the supply chains, there will be shortages/price gouging etc, shutdowns, and that each locality needs to prepare.

The federal government is a backup; it was never meant to be the main supplier. Their stockpile was traditionally meant for essential personnel to keep the government, military, health, and law enforcement running.  It was not meant for the regular citizens. They should have been covered at a local level for 6-8 weeks. I do think some states were woefully unprepared because they didn’t want to spend the money.  CA for instance did away with some of the pandemic supplies and plans that Swargenager (sp) put in place due to cost.  I’m sure that is not an isolated case. It is expensive to plan for a ‘maybe’. I get that.  It just is backfiring at the moment. 

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