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image.thumb.jpeg.10f838963526f3de60afd1a8e86ee89a.jpegThere was a map from New York City.  I obviously don’t know the geography obviously but supposedly shows harder hit areas are poorer areas

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Very interesting and informative interview with a South Korean medical professor. It explains why there were so seemingly prepared:

 

 

Edited by Fifiruth
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27 minutes ago, CuriousMomof3 said:


Yep, and ventilator circuits and ET tubes and IV bags.  There are lots of things to worry about running out.

And staff because managing a ventilated patient is a highly specialized skill.

 

Sedation drugs are already in short supply. They were in mid-February already.

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Quote

I’m a bit shocked some these weren’t already in place. NV has had most of these beginning March 17. 

 

Those delaying days may be one part of why NY is having such a bad problem early.  You are lucky your Governor took action earlier IMO. 

 

 

Edited by Pen

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The raw ingredient for hydroxychloroquine is mostly made in India, which has stopped its export. Teva (Israel) is sending extra to the us right now, but it is name brand Plaquenil. Hydroxychloroquine generic 30 day supply is normally under $20. Same in non-generic is $550-600 (verifiable on good rx, fwiw). Make of that what you will.

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47 minutes ago, Plum said:

I’m a bit shocked some these weren’t already in place. NV has had most of these beginning March 17. 

We've had them for a bit less, but it's been more than a week, IIRC. 

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52 minutes ago, SeaConquest said:

I've been ordering almost everything online -- including groceries -- for several years now, so that part doesn't seem different for me. I am tipping much more than usual because I do feel that the drivers deserve hazard pay and because it is taking longer in stores than normal (although our Costco order today was really quick, and this was on a Saturday -- and our shopper actually scored both paper towels and disinfecting wipes!!). But, we do have the driver leave everything outside, so we have no contact. I don't know; I am morally torn. I am an asthmatic, so I don't want to risk it, but I have a single mom friend who is a gig worker and does these deliveries. I gave her an N95 mask, some hand sanitizer, and some gloves to help her be safer, but even with the expanded unemployment, she wouldn't be able to afford life in San Diego if she quit. Our COL is just too high here.  But, now with the schools closed, she is having to drag her kid around on deliveries. Normally, we would watch him for her, but we can't right now. I wish I could do more to help her. 😞  

 

I can't decide whether taking delivery is better or worse, from an ethical standpoint, than going shopping, assuming that your risk of contracting or spreading the virus is average.  It feels worse to order and put all the risk on the other person, but I don't know that workers for places that deliver groceries, like Peapod, aren't safer than workers in the regular grocery store.  They are putting stuff outside, so they aren't getting within 6 feet of people, and while they're working around lots of other people in the warehouse, at least it's the same people, unlike grocery store workers.   Something like Instacart seems like the highest risk, but we've never used that so I don't know.  

This is all a moot issue for us, because we needed groceries before a delivery time was available, so we sent a family member to the store.  But now we've got a delivery time for next time, so we're going to try that.  

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6 hours ago, Arcadia said:

“Thousands of employees for grocery delivery service Instacart are planning to strike Monday, arguing that they deserve hazard pay and personal protective equipment such as masks and gloves during the coronavirus pandemic.
http://nbcbay.com/PPOCBHQ”

Are they employees or independent contractors?  I thought they work when they want? 

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Delivery ethics is not even a thing for us because they stopped doing deliveries two weeks ago.  They are working on getting a priority delivery service for at risk populations.  I’m hoping my parents might start using it. 

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10 minutes ago, matrips said:

Are they employees or independent contractors?  I thought they work when they want? 

The in-store shopper is an employee.

https://shoppers.instacart.com

Full-Service Shopper

Shop and deliver orders

  • Independent contractor
  • Access to a car required
  • Choose hours that work for you
  • Shop and deliver orders
View More Details

In-Store Shopper

Shop orders within a store

  • Part-Time Employee
  • No vehicle required
  • Flexible schedule
  • Shopping only

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3 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

The raw ingredient for hydroxychloroquine is mostly made in India, which has stopped its export. Teva (Israel) is sending extra to the us right now, but it is name brand Plaquenil. Hydroxychloroquine generic 30 day supply is normally under $20. Same in non-generic is $550-600 (verifiable on good rx, fwiw). Make of that what you will.

 

Yep, I'm afraid we're going to see more of this, and a situation where people with certain diagnoses who have money are able to weather this, and people who don't have money won't. 

I didn't mean to downplay the hydroxychlorquine shortage.  It's a huge problem for people.  It seems like it might be easier to solve than if the medication that turns out to work is something that's super rare, but on an individual level, it's the same level of horror if you can't get your med.  

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22 minutes ago, matrips said:

Are they employees or independent contractors?  I thought they work when they want? 

 

Complicated question, actually. They were all independent contractors until recently. CA passed a controversial law called AB5, which was intended to give more protections to gig workers by making them employees. Under the new law, Instacart would likely have to classify them as employees, but I still don't know that they are. https://www.bizjournals.com/sanfrancisco/news/2020/02/25/instacart-loses-key-court-fight-in-ab-5-gig-worker.html

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1 hour ago, square_25 said:

Yeah, I think you're right. I wonder if people were waiting for a more coordinated federal response? They probably shouldn't have been. 

Or waiting for WHO to think it serious enough to declare a pandemic.  They didn’t do that until March 11.

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Just now, Terabith said:

How is lockdown going?  How is your son and his quarantine?

His self isolation is over TODAY!  But of course now the entire country is in self-isolation. Haha.

So here in NZ, we can only shop at our local grocery store and pharmacy, and we can go for walks in our local area.  We are not allowed to drive except to the local grocery store and pharmacy.  There is NO carry out food of any sort available, there is also no online shopping of any sort except groceries because all transport is for essential services only. So we are hunkering down in a 600sq foot apartment with three rooms with 2 teens and 2 parents working from home and heading into winter.  Good thing we like each other! 

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1 hour ago, lewelma said:

I am starting to think that only upper and middle class people in America are going into lockdown. There are a ton of poorly paid workers serving all the people in isolation.  DH was just talking to his mom on the phone, and she said that in Ohio she can still order home delivery from restaurants and stuff from Amazon.  So you have chefs, delivery people, amazon warehouse people, and grocery store check out staff still working and serving the people who have the means to stay at home and avoid exposure.  I feel really yucky about this.

That's a bit of propaganda.  The middle class is mostly at work in essential industries at the worksite, with re-arranged work rules and hours, or they are working out of the home as much as possible or because they are on fourteen day isolation due to symptoms or travel. 

The folks delivering Meals on Wheels and the JCC Senior/shut in meals are also middle class retirees. 

My neighbor owns his restaurant.  He is happy to provide takeout and he's rearranged the kitchen and staffing to keep as many employed as he can while observing the distancing and sanitation. Folks are ordering because they trust that his employees won't be at work sick and will continue to observe social distancing at home....and it does reduce their odds..they would encounter many more people at the grocery store than are handling the food at the restaurant.

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7 minutes ago, matrips said:

Or waiting for WHO to think it serious enough to declare a pandemic.  They didn’t do that until March 11.

 

Yeah, a lot of people seem like they've been too slow. NY wasn't really that slow, if you look compared to other states -- our "first case" was fairly late. It's just that we probably missed some and didn't realize how late we were. 

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Just now, HeighHo said:

That's a bit of propaganda.  The middle class is mostly at work in essential industries at the worksite, with re-arranged work rules and hours, or they are working out of the home as much as possible or because they are on fourteen day isolation due to symptoms or travel. 

The folks delivering Meals on Wheels and the JCC Senior/shut in meals are also middle class retirees. 

My neighbor owns his restaurant.  He is happy to provide takeout and he's rearranged the kitchen and staffing to keep as many employed as he can while observing the distancing and sanitation. Folks are ordering because they trust that his employees won't be at work sick and will continue to observe social distancing at home....and it does reduce their odds..they would encounter many more people at the grocery store than are handling the food at the restaurant.

I'm glad to hear that.  Here in NZ, we have fewer low end people working because there is no online shopping (except groceries although even that has been cut by some stores) and there are no restaurants operating. Without these 2 industries, there are no chefs, wait-staff, Amazon store workers, or delivery people out and about.  All people staying home because of job cuts are getting about $500/week in wage subsidy. People who are working from home do not.  It is just interesting to see how the two governments are doing things differently. 

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13 minutes ago, lewelma said:

I'm glad to hear that.  Here in NZ, we have fewer low end people working because there is no online shopping (except groceries although even that has been cut by some stores) and there are no restaurants operating. Without these 2 industries, there are no chefs, wait-staff, Amazon store workers, or delivery people out and about.  All people staying home because of job cuts are getting about $500/week in wage subsidy. People who are working from home do not.  It is just interesting to see how the two governments are doing things differently. 

 

  • Here the waiters/waitresses are now employed by the grocers and pharmacies. Lots of stocking needed by grocers, deliveries by pharmacies.  Between people stocking up for fourteen day isolation, families who usually eat out stocking to eat in, and travelers heading to second home, the grocers have been busy.  The grocers have raised wages and given more hours.  That is not to say that there are not people out of work, but there are places looking for help.
Edited by HeighHo
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1 hour ago, Acadie said:

How is it working in NZ in terms of grocery stores and delivery services?

No delivery services.  Even online grocery shopping in drying up because they can't find people willing to do the job.  They stay home and stay safe and get a wage subsidy.

The clerks at the grocery stores now are required to have a very high plexiglass shield between them and the customers.  Any cash purchases must be a self check out as clerks are not allowed to touch  money.  All the stock boys have gloves and welder's helmets that completely cover their faces.  Only 100 people are allowed in a typical grocery store at any one time and only 1 person per family can shop. 

Pharmacies are only allowing 1 person in the store at a time and the clerk at our store had a proper mask.

The buses are running on a reduced schedule for essential workers and for those who can't otherwise get to their grocery store. The bus drivers I have seen have masks. 

We have no online services and we have no restaurants in operation right now. 

We have no domestic flights or intercity travel allowed. No driving is allowed unless it is to your local store. 

I have actually just found out that NZ is a producer of masks!

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3 minutes ago, Happymomof1 said:

Everyone is talking about NYC, but Detroit is really suffering right now.  I'm part of another board and a nurse there has been talking about how awful it is and how they are out of ventilators.

https://www.bridgemi.com/michigan-health-watch/detroit-hospital-warns-some-coronavirus-patients-may-not-get-ventilators

I'm sure NYC isn't going to be the worst-hit, even though it's first, because it's a relatively rich state with a fair amount of political clout. The people most hurt by the lackluster federal response will be in places like Detroit :-/. 

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There is some indication that NZ can actually *eradicate* the virus in the next 6 weeks.  But at that point I am not clear what we do. The world gets herd immunity (and lots of people die) and we do what?  Stay in our bubble and wait for a vaccine that may or may not happen? Keep the borders shut for how long?  Or let the population get it very very slowly -- like over 3 years so we don't overwhelm the system?  And if so, how do we manage that?  In and out of self-isolation as we allow some people to get it over time?  I'm just not clear on the longer term plan. 

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5 minutes ago, square_25 said:

I'm sure NYC isn't going to be the worst-hit, 

The worst hit will be India.  😞 

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34 minutes ago, lewelma said:

There is some indication that NZ can actually *eradicate* the virus in the next 6 weeks.  But at that point I am not clear what we do. The world gets herd immunity (and lots of people die) and we do what?  Stay in our bubble and wait for a vaccine that may or may not happen? Keep the borders shut for how long?  Or let the population get it very very slowly -- like over 3 years so we don't overwhelm the system?  And if so, how do we manage that?  In and out of self-isolation as we allow some people to get it over time?  I'm just not clear on the longer term plan. 

I would guess there WILL be a vaccine. I would assume you'd keep your borders (relatively) closed until more treatments were tested and more standards of care were studied. 

Also, I'm jealous of your competent leadership. 

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7 minutes ago, square_25 said:

Also, I'm jealous of your competent leadership. 

People are starting to worry about Jacinda. Since coming into office, she has had to deal with

1) having a baby

2) The Christchurch mass shootings

3) A volcanic eruption

4) A pandemic

That is a lot to handle in 2.5 years.  She is looking kind of haggard. 

 

Edited by lewelma
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Just now, lewelma said:

People are starting to worry about Jacinda. She has had to deal with

1) having a baby

2) The Christchurch mass shootings

3) A volcanic eruption

4) A pandemic

That is a lot to handle in 2.5 years.  She is looking kind of haggard. 

 

 

Oh, goodness. This might not be the job she had envisioned... 

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3 minutes ago, square_25 said:

Oh, goodness. This might not be the job she had envisioned... 

She is 39

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1 minute ago, lewelma said:

She is 39

Clearly, age is not a prerequisite for wisdom, lol. That's a lot to have on her plate, though. 

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An elderly woman from my complex of four buildings was just taken out to an ambulance. Suspected Covid case. Everyone was suited up. Suburb of Chicago. :(

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1 minute ago, Happymomof1 said:

Our death rate for the US has doubled since Thursday to today (Saturday) from 1,000 to 2010

I'm sure we'll be doubling every 3 days for a bit. I think, on average, it's going to be doubling slower than that, though -- places will start doubling (like NY), they'll lock down, they'll stop doubling as quickly, other places will start doubling, etc. I'm worried about interactions between states, though. 

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1 hour ago, DoraBora said:

I don't know.  I wonder how on earth Italy become one.  Dr. Fauci theorizes it was because of the very large number of Chinese tourists, who seeded the virus in multiple spots in that country. 

I think the epicenter in SK was Daegu, which is quite a bit smaller than NYC.  Your city has large airports, people coming in from all over the world, tons of wonderful (and crowded) sights to see.   

It's so hard to predict how things will play out.  Even as recently as ten days ago(!), Gov Cuomo didn't think NY would get to a state-wide shelter in place order. 

 

For Italy and Spain, I've seen it theorized that it had to do with a big soccer game that happened in Bergamo right about that time. Apparently, most of the first Spaniards to have confirmed cases were all associated with that game?

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37 minutes ago, Happymomof1 said:

Everyone is talking about NYC, but Detroit is really suffering right now.  I'm part of another board and a nurse there has been talking about how awful it is and how they are out of ventilators.

https://www.bridgemi.com/michigan-health-watch/detroit-hospital-warns-some-coronavirus-patients-may-not-get-ventilators

That’s because Cuomo wanted them ALL. 🙄

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2 minutes ago, SamanthaCarter said:

That’s because Cuomo wanted them ALL. 🙄

You mean the ones from the federal stockpile? Yeah, that was unreasonable, but he didn't get them all. It's not on him they hadn't been sent :P. 

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Report: Cirque du Soleil Considering Bankruptcy

Quote

Cirque du Soleil is working with restructuring advisers to address a cash crunch and its roughly $900 million in debt, the sources said on Thursday.

I'm sorry what????

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9 minutes ago, SamanthaCarter said:

That’s because Cuomo wanted them ALL. 🙄

Governor Whitmer said that all of her orders for ventilators and PPE have been cancelled by vendors and redirected to the federal stockpile, and the vendors are saying that they were told not to send her anything. This is at the same time that POTUS is publicly referring to her as a "half wit" and telling Hannity that he told Pence not to call her or Inslee because they are complaining too much and not being appreciative enough of all he is doing for them.

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 I wonder how on earth Italy become one.  Dr. Fauci theorizes it was because of the very large number of Chinese tourists, who seeded the virus in multiple spots in that country. 

So I did some digging. We get about 450,000 Chinese tourists each year, which is about 10% of the population of NZ. Does Italy get 6 million Chinese tourists a year? That would be an equivalent percent of population compared to NZ. 

However, we locked the border to mainland China on February 2nd. So I'm not convinced Dr. Fauci is right.  I think NZ acted faster than Italy. 

 

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5 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

Governor Whitmer said that all of her orders for ventilators and PPE have been cancelled by vendors and redirected to the federal stockpile, and the vendors are saying that they were told not to send her anything. This is at the same time that POTUS is publicly referring to her as a "half wit" and telling Hannity that he told Pence not to call her or Inslee because they are complaining too much and not being appreciative enough of all he is doing for them.

Wait. Wait. The federal government are COMPETING with the states for ventilators and PPE?? And they are also being instructed not to send any to those states? Ugh. 

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Just now, square_25 said:

Wait. Wait. The federal government are COMPETING with the states for ventilators and PPE?? And they are also being instructed not to send any to those states? Ugh. 

Multiple governors are complaining of that — they were told to find their own equipment, but then when they tried to buy it they were outbid by the federal government, who did not send them what they needed. 

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Time to go talk to Elon Musk.  Sounds like he is the only one finding ways to buy these things from overseas markets. 

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I am horrified at how political this has become in America.  

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1 minute ago, Corraleno said:

Multiple governors are complaining of that — they were told to find their own equipment, but then when they tried to buy it they were outbid by the federal government, who did not send them what they needed. 

That's just great. I don't think I can comment on that without veering into the political. 

I have to say, if I were a governor right now, I'd swallow my pride and be as appreciative as I could muster. 😕It's worth it. 

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Just now, lewelma said:

I am horrified at how political this has become in America.  

There's a very standard partisan divide about this in America. There isn't a consensus. 

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21 minutes ago, kdsuomi said:

 

For Italy and Spain, I've seen it theorized that it had to do with a big soccer game that happened in Bergamo right about that time. Apparently, most of the first Spaniards to have confirmed cases were all associated with that game?

@square_25@lewelma

UEFA Champions League

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-champions-league-match-a-biological-bomb-that-infected-bergamo-experts-say-11963905

“A football match played last month was a "biological bomb" that may have helped cause Bergamo in northern Italy to become an epicentre of the coronavirus pandemic, experts have said.

Atalanta's home Champions League tie against Valencia, held two days before the first case of locally transmitted COVID-19was confirmed in the country, has been dubbed "Game Zero" by local media.

...

Less than a week after the game, the first cases were reported in the province of Bergamo.

The contagion was reported in Valencia at about the same time after a journalist who travelled to the match became the second person infected in the region.

More than a third of Valencia's squad became infected after the match in Milan, while on Tuesday, Atalanta announced its first positive case in goalkeeper Marco Sportiello

More than a month later, experts say the game may be one of the biggest reasons why Bergamo has become one of the epicentres of the coronavirus pandemic.

Fabiano di Marco, the chief pneumologist at the Pope John XXIII hospital in Bergamo, told Corriere della Sera the fans travelled to the match "in buses, cars, trains. A biological bomb, unfortunately."

Luca Lorini, the head of the intensive care unit at the hospital, has around 100 patients under his care with the coronavirus and there are many more in other parts of the hospital.

He said: "I'm sure that 40,000 people hugging and kissing each other while standing a centimetre apart - four times, because Atalanta scored four goals - was definitely a huge accelerator for contagion.

"Right now we're at war. When peace time comes, I can assure you we will go and see how many of the 40,000 people who went to the game became infected. Right now we have other priorities."

Bergamo Mayor Giorgio Gori said this week: "It's very probable that 40,000 Bergamaschi in the stands of San Siro, all together, exchanged the virus between them.

"Unfortunately, we couldn't have known. No one knew the virus was already here. It was inevitable."”

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3 minutes ago, lewelma said:

Time to go talk to Elon Musk.  Sounds like he is the only one finding ways to buy these things from overseas markets. 

Tesla China is buying from China on his behalf. That’s the problem with offshoring medical equipment manufacturing (and also drugs manufacturing) to the cheapest labor markets.

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