wuhan - coronavirus

[TCB]

4 minutes ago, kbutton said:

 

I found it offensive as DH works in healthcare, and they are stretching PPE. Somewhere before POTUS's remarks, I think I mentioned that PPE stealing is a thing without a pandemic. Unless they keep everything super locked up (as they probably are now), which affects productivity, people do tend to help themselves to gloves, masks, paper towels, wipes, etc. when they show up in EDs and doctor's office of all kinds. It's like when people take extra disposable silverware, napkins, condiments, and tea bags at a restaurant. 

But I agree that it's not a wrong question in a different context. 

I thought I saw a report somewhere that the US is stopping exports (finally). I am unable to keep up with the links, but maybe someone else has seen this too. 

Germany did this months ago with regards to masks. I wish we had acted then too!

[Arcadia]

2 minutes ago, saraha said:

Haven't made it to the end of the thread yet, but I busted out laughing when I realized you were talking about puzzles and not the thing that cuts wood! I am embarrassed to say it took several posts of me thinking, "Well, I guess making shapes of of wood could be therapeutic, how progressive they are!"

Carpentry is therapeutic too 🙂

If liability isn’t an issue, a makerspace corner at cancer centers would be a welcome distraction too. 

[Pen]

25 minutes ago, kbutton said:

 

I found it offensive as DH works in healthcare, and they are stretching PPE. Somewhere before POTUS's remarks, I think I mentioned that PPE stealing is a thing without a pandemic. Unless they keep everything super locked up (as they probably are now), which affects productivity, people do tend to help themselves to gloves, masks, paper towels, wipes, etc. when they show up in EDs and doctor's office of all kinds. It's like when people take extra disposable silverware, napkins, condiments, and tea bags at a restaurant. 

But I agree that it's not a wrong question in a different context. 

I thought I saw a report somewhere that the US is stopping exports (finally). I am unable to keep up with the links, but maybe someone else has seen this too. 

 

President of US has just invoked his Emergency Defense powers to try to stop 3M from exporting its PPE. (According news flash  up till at least a few minutes ago it has been exporting most of what it produces—and isn’t producing enough even if it were not exporting most) 

Just got news flash a few minutes ago

Edited April 3, 2020 by Pen

[bolt.]

2 hours ago, Pen said:

ETA I guess flipside is that if USA cases hadn’t blown up, we would have been criticized by international community and probably domestic press and many, many American people for “putting America first” and hoarding supplies while Asia and Europe needed them.  (And, ironically, if more PPE had been kept, and rapidly issued to first responders and medical workers, perhaps our numbers would have been lower, making it seem like keeping the equipment here was not justified.) 

 

Ummm... Yeah! Canadians and other trade partners are not impressed.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/3m-n95-masks-1.5520326

[Arcadia]

27 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

President of US has just invoked his Emergency Defense powers to try to stop 3M from exporting its PPE. (According news flash  up till at least a few minutes ago it has been exporting most of what it produces—and isn’t producing enough even if it were not exporting most) 

Just got news flash a few minutes ago

It’s all over the news now

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/3m-argues-against-ceasing-exports-of-respirators-as-it-preps-to-work-with-fema-to-boost-production-2020-04-03

“3M Co. MMM-3.23% said Friday the administration of President Donald Trump has asked it to cease exporting respirators that are made in the U.S. to Latin America and Canada, given they are in short supply during the coronavirus pandemic. The company said it is a vital supplier of that equipment in those markets and that there are "signifiant humanitarian implications" to such a move. "Ceasing all export of respirators produced in the United States would likely cause other countries to retaliate and do the same, as some have already done," the company said in a statement. "If that were to occur, the net number of respirators being made available to the United States would actually decrease. That is the opposite of what we and the Administration, on behalf of the American people, both seek. " The company, which was criticized by Trump at a Thursday briefing after it said demand for N95 respirators was exceeding capacity, said it is looking forward to working with FEMA to boost production after Trump invoked the Defense Production Act against the company, giving the federal government more control over its operations. The company has received approval to import 10 million N95 masks made at 3M facilities in China back to the U.S.”

[EmseB]

2 hours ago, Sneezyone said:

Indeed. People who distinguish themselves in times of crisis always prosper in the end. We need more leaders like this.

Meanwhile, the Navy is still putting sailors on a carrier based in the greater Seattle area. Claiming quarantine will solve the problem and not disclosing number of cases because of OPSEC. 

https://www.kitsapsun.com/story/news/2020/04/02/washington-coronavirus-uss-nimitz-crew-preparation-on-board-quarantine/5115234002/

All the Navy would need to do at this point to save face is declare a 30 or 60 day operational pause to preserve military readiness and safeguard their sailors' health. Why they want another embarrassing incident with a contaminated carrier is beyond me.

[brehon]

20 hours ago, Where's Toto? said:

I just saw that EMTs can't bring anybody in cardiac arrest that they weren't able to revive to a hospital in NYC.  They need to just leave them.😢

To be fair, this is SOP in several areas and has been for several years. (In my system EMTs don’t work codes, paramedics do.) My system’s protocols call for working codes (read cardiac arrests of all etiologies) for a specified time then calling for a pronouncement based on certain clinical criteria. This is a bit of a simplification and there are circumstances where we do transport with CPR in progress, but by and large, there is no benefit to the patient and increased danger to the paramedics and public when transporting with lights and sirens. With the major exception of ECMO ERs don’t do anything that a good (or really just decent) EMS system can’t do. And ECMO machines are not something every hospital has.

As harsh as it may sound, COVID or no COVID, neurologically intact survival rates of patients who were in cardiac arrest are pretty darn low. In fact, survival rates without considering neurological outcomes are very low. Your best chance of survival is having a sudden cardiac arrest due to cardiac issues and then having early compressions and, as appropriate, early defibrillation. This applies to both in hospital arrests and out of hospital arrests. 

 

[Frances]

59 minutes ago, TCB said:

Germany did this months ago with regards to masks. I wish we had acted then too!

Germany has been a model of excellent governmental response. early rapid testing, large number of tests, protecting the elderly, etc etc.

[Arcadia]

8 minutes ago, Frances said:

Germany has been a model of excellent governmental response. early rapid testing, large number of tests, protecting the elderly, etc etc.

 

1 hour ago, TCB said:

Germany did this months ago with regards to masks. I wish we had acted then too!

 

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/world/germany-covid-19-coronavirus-measures-working-12607270

“BERLIN: Measures taken by German officials to slow the spread of the coronavirus are starting to show effect, the Robert Koch Institute (RKI) for disease control said on Friday (Apr 3).

"We are seeing that the spread of the virus is getting slower ... it's working," said RKI president Lothar Wieler, stressing that restrictions on public life "need to be maintained" and it was too early to claim victory.

Wieler explained that each person who had caught the virus was now infecting only one person on average, where previously that number had been as high as seven.

"If the number is below one, then it means the epidemic is slowly easing up. That is our aim," he said.

"We know that we have pushed the number down to one with the measures, and we hope to push it down further."

Wieler nonetheless urged the public to keep observing government restrictions, which include a ban on public gatherings of more than two people and a requirement to stay at least 1.5m from others at all times.

"I need to say very clearly: the measures need to be maintained. Keeping your distance and staying at home is imperative, otherwise, we will not push the number under one," he said.

...

Meanwhile, the RKI altered its recommendations on Friday to encourage citizens to wear self-made masks in public.

It was "important to understand" that such masks would not protect the wearer, but they could help to protect others, said Wieler.

He added that there was "not yet any scientific proof" that the masks would limit the spread of the virus, but it "seemed plausible".

According to RKI figures on Friday, Germany has recorded more than 79,000 cases of the novel coronavirus.

A total of 1,017 deaths have been recorded, though RKI president Wieler warned Friday that the actual number could be much higher.

"We won't manage to test every single person ... I assume we will have more deaths than are officially recorded," he said.

Wieler also said that the mortality rate would "continue to rise" in Germany.

Latest figures showed that the death rate in Europe's largest economy had jumped to 1.2 per cent, still considerably lower than that of neighbouring countries.”

[Arcadia]

@mathnerd@Plum 

https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/coronavirus/monterey-county-library-uses-3d-printers-to-make-n95-masks/2266756/

“The Monterey County Library system's two 3D printers are being used to produce protective N95 masks while all of the system's branches are closed due to the novel coronavirus outbreak, the county said Thursday.

The two printers are producing the hard plastic masks around the clock to support first responders and medical professionals who are dealing with the pandemic's ongoing surge in cases. Each mask takes just over three hours to make and is designed to be worn multiple times by the same person.

...

Before being repurposed, the printers were generally used to produce supplies for the library system's maker program. Library officials also plan to use them to make doorknob covers that will help prevent the spread of germs and no-sew masks that can hold medically safe air filters.”

[Arcadia]

From Google https://www.google.com/covid19/mobility/

“As global communities respond to COVID-19, we've heard from public health officials that the same type of aggregated, anonymized insights we use in products such as Google Maps could be helpful as they make critical decisions to combat COVID-19.

These Community Mobility Reports aim to provide insights into what has changed in response to policies aimed at combating COVID-19. The reports chart movement trends over time by geography, across different categories of places such as retail and recreation, groceries and pharmacies, parks, transit stations, workplaces, and residential.”

[Acadie]

Testing wastewater confirmed coronavirus in a Dutch city before they had a single positive case. Could be used to monitor for new outbreaks. 

https://www.dw.com/en/coronavirus-in-sewage-foreshadowed-outbreak-in-dutch-city/a-52972980

[Arcadia]

4 minutes ago, Plum said:

One of the magnet extension programs here had 3D printers they sent home with some students so they could make masks. I know there is a maker shop here with multiple 3D printers making masks and a couple of other groups. All hands on deck. Yay! 3D printing!

You could probably contact the librarian in charge for the 3D printing files 

Hillary Theyer

Monterey County Free Libraries

(831) 883-7573

theyerha@co.monterey.ca.us.

[lewelma]

Apparently, NZ is making N95 masks out of sheep's wool. That did give me a smile this morning. And we are apparently exporting because we have 80million masks in our reserves (surgical and N95) , and are making more than we need. 

Most of the world is dependent on China for its air filter media for all of its masks and we've been making an indigenous supply of filter media based on what we grow here in New Zealand, " said Nick Davenport, chief executive officer of Lanaco. The company's making N95 respirator face masks using specially developed New Zealand sheep wool. 

They've had inquiries from around the globe, including the US, Hong Kong and Australia. With demand so high, they're ramping up production from 400,000 N95 masks a month to 1.5 million.

Edited April 3, 2020 by lewelma

[Carrie12345]

PA’s governor has asked all Pennsylvanians to wear cloth face coverings when out doing their essential business.

[Pen]

43 minutes ago, lewelma said:

Apparently, NZ is making N95 masks out of sheep's wool. That did give me a smile this morning. And we are apparently exporting because we have 80million masks in our reserves (surgical and N95) , and are making more than we need. 

Most of the world is dependent on China for its air filter media for all of its masks and we've been making an indigenous supply of filter media based on what we grow here in New Zealand, " said Nick Davenport, chief executive officer of Lanaco. The company's making N95 respirator face masks using specially developed New Zealand sheep wool. 

They've had inquiries from around the globe, including the US, Hong Kong and Australia. With demand so high, they're ramping up production from 400,000 N95 masks a month to 1.5 million.

 

Sheep wool masks sound lovely, especially for winter. 

I wish USA would get NZ masks.  I don’t trust China ones not to be virus laden. 

 

Maybe a new thing to write my elected representatives about!

Edited April 3, 2020 by Pen

[Arcadia]

@TCB@square_25@mathnerd@gardenmom5

https://www.bigcitieshealth.org/press-release-publichealth-leaders-openletter“

Nearly 30 of the Nation’s Largest Public Health Departments Launch Ad Campaign Urging People to Stay Home

Big Cities Health Coalition, NYC Department of Health and Mental Hygiene, and Santa Clara County Public Health Department partner to launch awareness-raising campaign in newspapers across the U.S. to help fight coronavirus

 

WASHINGTON, D.C., NEW YORK CITY, SANTA CLARA COUNTY - Today, the Big Cities Health Coalition (BCHC), the New York City Department of Health and Mental Hygiene and the Santa Clara County Public Health Department, along with 27 other BCHC member health departments—the largest and most urban in the country, who have been hit earliest by the coronavirus pandemic—shared an open letter in newspapers across the country to urge residents to stay at home.

The letter, published in the Chicago Tribune, East Bay Times, El Diario, Houston Chronicle, Mercury News, New York Times, New York Daily News, New York Post, San Francisco Chronicle, Seattle Times (publication date: April 6) and the Wall Street Journal, notes that the United States has not seen a public health threat like this in more than 100 years. It makes clear that the best course of action is a shared commitment to adhering to the preventative measures put forth by public health leaders—washing your hands, social distancing and most importantly: staying at home.

“We know it is hard,” said Dr. Oxiris Barbot, New York City’s health commissioner, and co-author of the letter. “We know that connection to and within our communities are some of the best things about our day-to-day lives but for now staying physically apart is the absolute best thing we can do for our friends, our family and our neighbors. The difference this will make will save lives.”

“When we ask people to stay home, we don’t take it lightly,” said Dr. Sara Cody, Santa Clara County health officer, public health director, and chair of the Big Cities Health Coalition. “We understand many people cannot work from home and are suffering from real impacts to their livelihood. Right now, we all need to reduce the number of people with whom each of us comes in contact. We each have a part in slowing the spread of this virus.”

The letter was signed by health officials from public health departments serving nearly 62 million residents.

“The signers of this letter represent decades of leadership and experience in the field of public health,” said Chrissie Juliano, executive director, Big Cities Health Coalition. “We at BCHC could not be more proud of the work they are doing to protect the health of their communities. Following the stay home directive is crucial. It keeps those that are well, well, keeps resources available for those that are sick and helps us to not overwhelm our health care system.”

Read the full text of the letter here

”

[Pen]

 

GARLIC?

 

I think someone raised garlic some pages back?

 

It isn’t listed in my best herbal antiviral book as being active against coronavirus or having been helpful for SARS1, afaik.  It at least certainly isn’t listed as an herb to particularly consider for coronavirus. 

Ribivarin pharmaceutical antiviral was apparently also only minimally effective, so something, whether herb or pharmaceutical being “antiviral” does not mean it will be effective against all virus forms. 

[Arcadia]

Contra Costa County, California https://cchealth.org/press-releases/2020/0403-Contra-Costa-Health-Confirms-COVID-19-Outbreak-at-a-Senior-Facility.php

“Contra Costa Health Services today confirms an outbreak of COVID-19 at a facility that houses seniors in Contra Costa County.

At least 27 people have tested positive so far in connection with the outbreak. No deaths have been reported as of Friday morning.”

[Pen]

3 minutes ago, HeighHo said:

 

Vit D has another feature -- fat cells love it and grab it, taking it out of circulation.  This is one of the reasons people are asked to maintain a healthy weight....their Vit D will circulate rather than be stored.

 

Interesting. Thanks, I did not know that! 

[Pen]

Did we already discuss this?

“China Gave Faulty, Contaminated Covid-19 Equipment to Several Countries

List of countries complaining about protective equipment, testing kits, and medical devices from China”

 

[YaelAldrich]

Prayers please.  In addition to the other stuff I mentioned above my son's (whom some of you have heard his exploits on here) best friend abruptly is coming to stay with us for an undetermined amount of time.  His mother has mental health issues and his coming home from school just blew up.  His father is recovering from cancer (and is not 100% either in MH) and although he can go there he really wants to stay with us.  They've been thick as thieves since they've both been released from school (mine senior year, him freshman year).  He's a good kid but another kid in our little condo makes seven.

 

 

[Robin M]

3 hours ago, Pen said:

 

President of US has just invoked his Emergency Defense powers to try to stop 3M from exporting its PPE. (According news flash  up till at least a few minutes ago it has been exporting most of what it produces—and isn’t producing enough even if it were not exporting most) 

Just got news flash a few minutes ago

 

Watch the daily White House briefings which is where all this information is being given.  Yesterday they talked about 3m and other companies who are still exporting and what needs to be do to prioritize who gets what and when and where.  Other countries are sending us supplies.  Russia just sent US a huge planeload of medical supplies.  US already had commitments to sent out supplies to italy and other countries which were honored, instead of stopped.  Lots of data from scientists and the covid task force. 

[Pen]

3 hours ago, Eliana said:

A local reporter did a summary: https://sccinsight.com/2020/04/01/where-do-we-go-from-here-new-research-and-studies-suggest-next-steps-for-fighting-covid-19/ of several recent papers (includes full text as well)

 

This is interesting! 

(It fits my sense of what is true, but for which I had no study or anything to verify.)  

 

 

Edited April 3, 2020 by Pen

[mathnerd]

Some good news after the deluge of bad news:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/trial-drug-covid-19-ubc-1.5519348

The University of British Columbia announced Thursday that an international team led by Dr. Josef Penninger has found a potential drug that helps block infection from the virus that causes COVID-19.

 

Edited April 3, 2020 by mathnerd

[Arcadia]

 😡Fremont, California 
https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2020/04/03/four-fremont-teens-arrested-for-local-crime-spree-school-vandalized-homes-burglarized/

“Four teens have been arrested for allegedly going on a crime spree that included vandalizing an American High School classroom and committing several residential burglaries, authorities announced late Thursday night.
...

All four juveniles were interviewed and released to their parents with officers requesting criminal charges for several counts of burglary, attempt burglary, possession of a firearm, and vandalism.”

[Acadie]

WebMD says coronavirus can live up to 5 days on glass and metal. I wish they listed sources. That's longer than the 3 day max I've seen elsewhere.

https://www.webmd.com/lung/how-long-covid-19-lives-on-surfaces

[Arcadia]

“A special case of COVID-19 with long duration of viral shedding for 49 days”
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.22.20040071v1

[prairiewindmomma]

1 hour ago, Arctic Mama said:

I’m heading out to fresh thyme in a little bit, I’m trying to keep it to twice a week.  Our fridge can’t hold more with the quantities we shop for, but my exposure walking past people with some space around me seems pretty minimal.

If you had to use public transit that would be a bigger worry.  I think some of these places will do delivery still, especially the smaller organic chains?  At least curbside pickup?

The nice things about the herbs, green leafies, nightshades, and colorful roots is they tend to keep well for almost a week.  Mushrooms are the only thing I’m finding really doesn’t want to make it past 3 days, so I’m buying the dried ones off the Internet.  

Are you buying fresh loose whole mushrooms? I find that if I buy portobello I can keep them for about a week. I keep them unwashed in a mesh bag until use.  If you are worried about contaminating your fridge, keep a bit of brown paper bag under them. 

[Arcadia]

@mathnerd@Pen 😧
https://abc7news.com/health/coronavirus-stanford-team-has-grim-forecast-for-shelter-in-place-future/6074566/

“SANTA CLARA COUNTY, Calif. (KGO) -- As the Bay Area heads into another weekend of sheltering-in-place due to the novel coronavirus pandemic, many folks are asking how much longer will it take before restrictions are lifted. That's one of the questions that a Stanford research team set out to answer by developing an interactive tool that models the spread of COVID-19 over time with interventions such as quarantine and social distancing.

"We estimate that shelter-in-place would have to remain in place for about five months or more in order to actually completely suppress the epidemic," said Stanford biology professor Erin Mordecai.

Using data from the global MIDAS network, Mordecai says we're beginning to see some of the positive effects of social distancing in Santa Clara County. However, lifting interventions too early could lead to a second outbreak. With that said, more widespread testing could lead to better contact tracing.

"That would allow us to concentrate the intervention on just the people that are infectious at any given time, and allow other people to maybe not fully go about their normal lives, but at least be able to get a little more social contact and get back out into the world a little more," said Mordecai.”

[mathnerd]

1 minute ago, Arcadia said:

@mathnerd@Pen 😧
https://abc7news.com/health/coronavirus-stanford-team-has-grim-forecast-for-shelter-in-place-future/6074566/

“SANTA CLARA COUNTY, Calif. (KGO) -- As the Bay Area heads into another weekend of sheltering-in-place due to the novel coronavirus pandemic, many folks are asking how much longer will it take before restrictions are lifted. That's one of the questions that a Stanford research team set out to answer by developing an interactive tool that models the spread of COVID-19 over time with interventions such as quarantine and social distancing.

"We estimate that shelter-in-place would have to remain in place for about five months or more in order to actually completely suppress the epidemic," said Stanford biology professor Erin Mordecai.

Using data from the global MIDAS network, Mordecai says we're beginning to see some of the positive effects of social distancing in Santa Clara County. However, lifting interventions too early could lead to a second outbreak. With that said, more widespread testing could lead to better contact tracing.

"That would allow us to concentrate the intervention on just the people that are infectious at any given time, and allow other people to maybe not fully go about their normal lives, but at least be able to get a little more social contact and get back out into the world a little more," said Mordecai.”

I suspected this was the case already ... 😞

[Ausmumof3]

7 hours ago, Arcadia said:

No idea. Friends there are puzzled too. The elderly would just say PM allow so they can go. 

Same deal here.  Except hair cuts have to be limited to 30 minutes.  Which is just plain bizarre.

[lasulliva]

Stanford started a Santa Clara County serosurvey today. I'm not sure what test they're using, though, or what the turnaround time on the results will be.

[Acadie]

While mortality is low for younger people, children and young adults can have severe illness. Helpful distinctions in the article below. @square_25

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/apr/01/coronavirus-young-americans-covid-19?fbclid=IwAR1-CvfKnuwTGPg13hMfQMcdZfDtR-F9ZYMeQFNTOPjiKgj3G2Oh043z0jo

[Ausmumof3]

5 hours ago, lewelma said:

Apparently, NZ is making N95 masks out of sheep's wool. That did give me a smile this morning. And we are apparently exporting because we have 80million masks in our reserves (surgical and N95) , and are making more than we need. 

Most of the world is dependent on China for its air filter media for all of its masks and we've been making an indigenous supply of filter media based on what we grow here in New Zealand, " said Nick Davenport, chief executive officer of Lanaco. The company's making N95 respirator face masks using specially developed New Zealand sheep wool. 

They've had inquiries from around the globe, including the US, Hong Kong and Australia. With demand so high, they're ramping up production from 400,000 N95 masks a month to 1.5 million.

I have been wondering about wool as home made mask material.  I’ve seen comparisons on cotton etc but nothing with wool.  Felting can tighten the weave a lot but might be too hard to breathe through.  But I’m assuming there’s some kind of process involved in the “specially developed” part.  I saw the wool markets here have taken a dive due to the impact on high end fashion so would be fabulous if it could be turned to a different use.

[Ausmumof3]

40 minutes ago, Arctic Mama said:

I’ve just been buying the plastic wrapped big pack at the grocery store.  I think they’re brushed off but not washed??  Good tip, I’ll look for the loose ones instead next time.

Mushrooms here are always sold with Brown paper bags.  Plastic makes them go off really quick.  In brown paper they last a week at a push.  

[lewelma]

2 hours ago, Arcadia said:

"We estimate that shelter-in-place would have to remain in place for about five months or more

The peer-reviewed articles linked to above stated 5-7 months for a late, loose lockdown, and 6-7 weeks for a early, tight lock down.  

This is not boding well for universities in the USA reopening for the fall semester, as American has opted for the first option. 

[Ausmumof3]

https://www.queenslandcountrylife.com.au/story/6692273/merino-mask-developed-to-meet-coronavirus-demand/
 

looks like at least one local company is moving toward making masks.  They aren’t making them medical grade at this stage but as a replacement for ag workers spray and dust masks while the other mask makers are too busy with the medical mask requirements.  
 

I keep thinking about this.  Wool is such a breathable material - it would be really comfy.  The only concern would be that it’s too breathable and let’s stuff through.  It also I think has some anti mould and antimicrobial tendencies.  one of the concerns with sterilising and reusing masks is the risk with bacterial and mould growth.  It also insulates so could be more comfy to wear.

https://www.sciencelearn.org.nz/resources/875-wool-fibre-properties
 

[lewelma]

I know all lockdowns are different, is anyone else in a lockdown with a 'bubble' concept? NZ has asked each of us to identify our bubble - a small group of people who physically interact but don't come in contact with others.  So our bubble includes our family of 4 and our 65 year old neighbor, but not his partner who lives across town. The Prime Minister's bubble includes her partner, toddler, the Finance Minister, and 4 staff members. The Finance Minister and staff members' families are NOT included in this bubble, so they will only be interacting by video. The Nursing Homes are considered a bubble, so staff have moved in voluntarily and are only interacting with their families by video.  I've also read about a group house for 22 university students acting as a bubble.  If they are dating anyone outside this bubble, they can only meet by video. Basically, bubbles do NOT overlap.

This seems such an obvious idea to us since it was implemented 10 days ago, but when we have discussed it with family living in various states in the USA, it was not a concept that they were familiar with.  

[Matryoshka]

MA just today announced they were going to start rigorous contact tracing.  A little late, I'd think, but better than not doing it at all?

 

[lewelma]

Just now, CuriousMomof3 said:

 

How are people in NZ getting food?

We can go to the grocery store but can't interact with anyone.  Staff wear masks, we wash hands, and do 2 meter physical distancing, only 100 people allowed in the store at a time (and these are very big grocery stores). 

The groceries have prioritized delivery to bubbles who contain an at-risk person.

When I talked to my dad about the Jacinda's bubble, he said, "but what about her staff's family?" And he was really surprised that they were excluded from the bubble. From his point of view (and he has taught a class in public health called "plagues and politics" so knows a thing or two), people can physically isolate, but yet the bubbles interact by a person or two crossing into different bubbles, and thus linking them together and lessening the impact of lockdowns. 

[SeaConquest]

2 minutes ago, lewelma said:

I know all lockdowns are different, is anyone else in a lockdown with a 'bubble' concept? NZ has asked each of us to identify our bubble - a small group of people who physically interact but don't come in contact with others.  So our bubble includes our family of 4 and our 65 year old neighbor, but not his partner who lives across town. The Prime Minister's bubble includes her partner, toddler, the Finance Minister, and 4 staff members. The Finance Minister and staff members' families are NOT included in this bubble, so they will only be interacting by video. The Nursing Homes are considered a bubble, so staff have moved in voluntarily and are only interacting with their families by video.  I've also read about a group house for 22 university students acting as a bubble.  If they are dating anyone outside this bubble, they can only meet by video. Basically, bubbles do NOT overlap.

This seems such an obvious idea to us since it was implemented 10 days ago, but when we have discussed it with family living in various states in the USA, it was not a concept that they were familiar with.  

 

We have no such thing here because most of us still come into contact with so many others. Like, I would love for our bubble to include my kids' best friend, but his mom drives an Uber/Lyft and does deliveries for Uber Eats, Instacart, etc. So, there's no way, I am having my kids play with her kid when his mother is in contact with the public like that. Likewise, we run a marine business that is still considered essential because we fix marine vessels. My husband has contact (as little as possible in person, and taking a ton of precautions) with our independent contractors, our clients, marina personnel, and our suppliers. So, I could also understand from her perspective why she wouldn't want her kid to play with mine (she isn't as strict as me and has suggested that our kids play together). So, the U.S. has left much to individual discretion, and has rolled all of this out across 50 states in a piecemeal and ridiculously haphazard fashion, all in the name of federalism, which is just one of the many reasons why some states will end up doing much better than others/why so many people will die per capital in some states vs others. Yay America! 

[mumto2]

I read a very similar article behind a paywall in The Telegraph yesterday and just spotted it in the Daily Mail.....yes I know but the main bits are identical, the mail is just significantly longer with pictures.  Since the main points are the same I am linking the one everyone can read......... a team of German researchers are doing research in the hardest hit part of Germany to try and figure out in real life how the virus is spreading.  They have tested doorknobs, animal fur etc in patients homes and found no virus on those surfaces.  At this point they are concluding only person to person but very early.  
 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8182767/Scientist-casts-doubt-coronavirus-spread.html

Interesting and somewhat calming......that said neither Dh or I plan to stop wearing gloves to open Amazon packages. 😉 My hand washing protocols are still in place , it’s just made me feel a bit less stressed about one mistake and someone touches their face and infects us all! 

[lewelma]

5 minutes ago, square_25 said:

 

We haven't done it. I think the reason for it is that we never had the chance to do containment at all

Seems to me that it has to do with making the lockdown actually effective, regardless of when it is implemented.  I'm sure there is some sort of graph theory that could study this (just a small project to keep your mind busy 🙂 ).  If 1% of our bubbles overlap (NZ) vs 50% overlap because the concept has not even been explained to the public (USA), the length of the lockdown would be dramatically different, regardless of the starting point.. 

[lewelma]

3 minutes ago, SeaConquest said:

 

We have no such thing here because most of us still come into contact with so many others. Like, I would love for our bubble to include my kids' best friend, but his mom drives an Uber/Lyft and does deliveries for Uber Eats, Instacart, etc. 

Ah, well in NZ all of those services are considered nonessential, so are not in operation. 

[lewelma]

Just now, square_25 said:

What is in operation? I know around here, transit workers and probably taxis are working, but they really are essential in NYC... 

Grocery stores (100 person limit) and pharmacies (1 person limit) and dairy's (1 person limit)

Hospitals (but not GPs -- all virtual)

Police

Trucking, ferries and docks to transport essential goods (food and medicine)

No retail online stores except liquor 🙂 

No restaurants, no carry out either

Buses for essential workers or people with no other way to get to the grocery store.  They are now free, the driver has a mask (we do have a lot of masks here), and I've never seen more than 5 people on a bus at a time.

Online office supplies (but you can only order if you are an essential store)

Online computers/communication equipment (but only for job purposes)

Our local gin distillery is open because it is now making hand sanitizer!

The N95 mask manufacturer!!

The aluminium smelter because it would take way way too much power to shut down and restart

That is about all I can come up with.

 

 

[The Governess]

Total US deaths doubled again today. We’ve been maintaining a pretty steady rate of increase. 😞

U.S. Deaths

 

April 3 7400 3 days to double (7296)

March 31 3900 3 days to double (3648)

March 28 2200 3 days to double (1824)

March 25 1030 2 days to double (912)

March 23 550 3 days to double (456)

March 20 250 3 days to double (228)

March 17 110 3 days to double (114)

March 14 57

 

(based on worldometers data)

[Ausmumof3]

1 hour ago, lewelma said:

I know all lockdowns are different, is anyone else in a lockdown with a 'bubble' concept? NZ has asked each of us to identify our bubble - a small group of people who physically interact but don't come in contact with others.  So our bubble includes our family of 4 and our 65 year old neighbor, but not his partner who lives across town. The Prime Minister's bubble includes her partner, toddler, the Finance Minister, and 4 staff members. The Finance Minister and staff members' families are NOT included in this bubble, so they will only be interacting by video. The Nursing Homes are considered a bubble, so staff have moved in voluntarily and are only interacting with their families by video.  I've also read about a group house for 22 university students acting as a bubble.  If they are dating anyone outside this bubble, they can only meet by video. Basically, bubbles do NOT overlap.

This seems such an obvious idea to us since it was implemented 10 days ago, but when we have discussed it with family living in various states in the USA, it was not a concept that they were familiar with.  

This is I think what I was trying to get at when I suggested people choose one friend or family for exercise and indoor play dates as long as that family will also stick to the one friend-family rule.  

for us because dh is in a role that’s still deemed essential work and places him in contact with a lot of people I think we need to isolate a bit more seriously.  I have seen my sis once and grocery shopped that’s it.  I don’t want to risk passing on something he picked up.

[Ausmumof3]

33 minutes ago, lovelearnandlive said:

Total US deaths doubled again today. We’ve been maintaining a pretty steady rate of increase. 😞

U.S. Deaths

 

April 3 7400 3 days to double (7296)

March 31 3900 3 days to double (3648)

March 28 2200 3 days to double (1824)

March 25 1030 2 days to double (912)

March 23 550 3 days to double (456)

March 20 250 3 days to double (228)

March 17 110 3 days to double (114)

March 14 57

 

(based on worldometers data)

Lockdown measures take 12-14 days to really take effect.  Italy has started to see decline in new cases about two weeks in.  Although that was after the stricter lockdown measures not the soft version they started with.    I hope US will start seeing that in zones that locked down harder in a week or so?

[Ausmumof3]

1 hour ago, square_25 said:

 

Ooooh, super interesting. There's SO MUCH we don't know yet. 

Hmm weird.  Both a shopping centre and MacDonald near the airport here have had cases which I’m presuming most likely link to the airport outbreak.