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3 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

I am skeptical of that Mail article because:

https://www.thailandmedical.news/news/singapore-coronavirus-study-shows-that-virus-lingers-in-rooms-and-toilets

and the Princeton and several other combined entities study about virus time remaining viable on surfaces

I think there is general agreement that the virus *could* spread from surfaces. However, if person-to-person is the way it is spread most of the time, it changes the messaging that is out there.

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DS got home 3 hours ago!  ❤️❤️

Update-  my youngest is not only short of breath, coughing, dizzy, nausaues, and with headache-  she is also confused.  I called our doctor and talked with him and she is going to be going to the ER.

Thought I'd post a pic of my dd, getting ready to spend another day in a coronavirus triage tent!  

4 minutes ago, TracyP said:

I think there is general agreement that the virus *could* spread from surfaces. However, if person-to-person is the way it is spread most of the time, it changes the messaging that is out there.

 

If you at least in part mean let’s all wear masks, or st least scarves or bandanas over our noses and mouths,  I agree.  

And if we can figure out separators for cashiers and others let’s do that. 

Etc. 

And let’s keep washing our hands well too. 

 

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2 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

If you at least in part mean let’s all wear masks, or st least scarves or bandanas over our noses and mouths,  I agree.  

And if we can figure out separators for cashiers and others let’s do that. 

Etc. 

And let’s keep washing our hands well too. 

 

That's exactly what I mean. 

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33 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

Well, given that we know they found the virus on surfaces on one of the cruise ships 17 days later, I REALLY doubt that fomites are not an issue. I'm guessing those people were just cleaning well. Or maybe it depends on the temperature and humidity in the air? But it would be VERY irresponsible for anyone to promote the idea that it can't be spread on surfaces until we know a lot more. 

As others have already pointed out, they did not find live virus on the cruiseship after 17 days, but just the RNA.

The director of the German institute cited in the mail article explained (in German media today https://www.deutschlandfunk.de/covid-19-wie-lange-sich-das-coronavirus-auf-oberflaechen.1939.de.html?drn:news_id=1117010)  that they did detect virus on those surfaces (door handles, cell phones, remotes etc) but were unable to culture the virus from these samples and concluded that they found RNA but no live virus. He said they tested households where highly infectious people had lived and were not able to get live virus off surfaces. 

ETA: The source I quoted is the German public radio, equivalent to NPR. In my decades long experience, they have balanced and rational reporting, and I would consider it trustworthy.

Edited by regentrude
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6 hours ago, Terabith said:

There's a pretty huge difference between placing an order and ordering a company to produce PPE for US purposes and doing what he did, which was essentially stealing orders on their way to Germany and Canada that had been paid for and promised.  (Which, not only had he not invoked the Defense Act until Thursday, but he hadn't placed orders.)  The first is completely legitimate.  The second is basically an act of piracy.  Very uncool.  

Considering that the federal (US) govt has been intercepting and cancelling legitimate paid-for orders from its own states mid-order/shipment (I know MA has had a bunch intercepted; I'm sure it's lots more), it's hardly surprising they're doing it to other countries.  The act should have been invoked much earlier so that it was just prioritization, not mid-process.

But of course, we're now learning from Jared that the stuff the feds have is for them, not for the states (y'know the people of America) either.  🤬

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https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2004973
 

this was the previous study we talked about that had the 3 hours for aerosols and 72 for plastic and stainless steel.  However finding some viable virus particles versus enough to probably cause infection may be different things.  I think the half life was estimated at around 6 hours.  

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6 hours ago, Terabith said:

There's a pretty huge difference between placing an order and ordering a company to produce PPE for US purposes and doing what he did, which was essentially stealing orders on their way to Germany and Canada that had been paid for and promised.  (Which, not only had he not invoked the Defense Act until Thursday, but he hadn't placed orders.)  The first is completely legitimate.  The second is basically an act of piracy.  Very uncool.  

Yes. It's grabbing another customer's toilet paper from their cart.

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Sounds like we have a bubble that is just our immediate family, although dh is on his way to add his mom to our bubble.   Other than the grocery store, none of us have been in public places in weeks.   We're in NJ where stay at home orders have been in place for a while, although violated quite a bit.  Now people seem to be taking it seriously since it's pretty hard to ignore when it's right over the river.  Dh said most people were wearing masks at the grocery store yesterday.

I saw this morning that NY is over 100,000 cases and about 12 deaths an hour. 

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15 minutes ago, regentrude said:

Yes. It's grabbing another customer's toilet paper from their cart.

 

That isn’t the analogy I would use.  

 I think there are extremely serious ethical dilemmas.

And I think it matters a lot if Place something was destined to go to was Italy or Spain with a problem perhaps bigger than USA own problems, or somewhere that isn’t having a severe problem or at least nowhere near the problem USA is having. 

Legally it is probably a breach of contract. Breach of contract is a Very common legal issue and one that has accepted remedies in law. 

It may not be breach of contract if the contract had language that excluded such a situation. 

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32 minutes ago, regentrude said:

As others have already pointed out, they did not find live virus on the cruiseship after 17 days, but just the RNA.

The director of the German institute cited in the mail article explained (in German media today https://www.deutschlandfunk.de/covid-19-wie-lange-sich-das-coronavirus-auf-oberflaechen.1939.de.html?drn:news_id=1117010)  that they did detect virus on those surfaces (door handles, cell phones, remotes etc) but were unable to culture the virus from these samples and concluded that they found RNA but no live virus. He said they tested households where highly infectious people had lived and were not able to get live virus off surfaces. 

ETA: The source I quoted is the German public radio, equivalent to NPR. In my decades long experience, they have balanced and rational reporting, and I would consider it trustworthy.

I originally found a report of the study in The Telegraph but since most can’t get behind the paywall used The Daily Mail because it made the same points.  So glad you were able to listen and read in German to the information.

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11 minutes ago, Pen said:

That isn’t the analogy I would use.  

 I think there are extremely serious ethical dilemmas.

And I think it matters a lot if Place something was destined to go to was Italy or Spain with a problem perhaps bigger than USA own problems, or somewhere that isn’t having a severe problem or at least nowhere near the problem USA is having. 

It is exactly like snatching the toilet paper from another customer who is waiting in line at the checkout (and handing the cashier an extra ten bucks so they let you cut in line). It's exactly the kind of behavior we would find despicable from another person.
The mask shipment ordered for Berlin was on the airport to be flown over when they swooped in and took it.

FWIW, Germany has more cases per capita than the US (1100 vs 840). So nope, no justification on that count either.

Edited by regentrude
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8 minutes ago, Where's Toto? said:

Sounds like we have a bubble that is just our immediate family, although dh is on his way to add his mom to our bubble.   Other than the grocery store, none of us have been in public places in weeks.   We're in NJ where stay at home orders have been in place for a while, although violated quite a bit.  Now people seem to be taking it seriously since it's pretty hard to ignore when it's right over the river.  Dh said most people were wearing masks at the grocery store yesterday.

I saw this morning that NY is over 100,000 cases and about 12 deaths an hour. 

 

Yes.

and gone from single refrigerator trucks for bodies to multiple it looks like in pictures.  

Not yet filling ice rinks with dead bodies, and I haven’t yet heard reports of people in NYC stuck at home with dead relatives they cannot get moved out. (Are these things to be thankful for? That it’s not as bad as Italy, Ecuador? Or will they be coming next?) 

 

But elsewhere reports are that people are still holding parties, huge church services...

 

 

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45 minutes ago, regentrude said:

As others have already pointed out, they did not find live virus on the cruiseship after 17 days, but just the RNA.

The director of the German institute cited in the mail article explained (in German media today https://www.deutschlandfunk.de/covid-19-wie-lange-sich-das-coronavirus-auf-oberflaechen.1939.de.html?drn:news_id=1117010)  that they did detect virus on those surfaces (door handles, cell phones, remotes etc) but were unable to culture the virus from these samples and concluded that they found RNA but no live virus. He said they tested households where highly infectious people had lived and were not able to get live virus off surfaces. 

ETA: The source I quoted is the German public radio, equivalent to NPR. In my decades long experience, they have balanced and rational reporting, and I would consider it trustworthy.

 

What,  from the German,  was the time lapse between the infectious people being in the household and trying to culture the viruses? 

 

 

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Just now, Pen said:

What,  from the German,  was the time lapse between the infectious people being in the household and trying to culture the viruses? 

I only saw the radio report, not a scientific study. He did not give details.
They started this week conducting a detailed study in the town that is one of the epicenters, but results are not yet available.

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28 minutes ago, regentrude said:

It is exactly like snatching the toilet paper from another customer who is waiting in line at the checkout (and handing the cashier an extra ten bucks so they let you cut in line).

 

I think TP squabble analogy trivializes the situation.   

 

? It might be more like triaging people for a ventilator when there are several patients all needing it.

Is Germany out of PPE for health workers and asking the public to make masks for health workers?  If so, then I agree that Germany is equally in need.  

https://www.stcharleshealthcare.org/covid-19/hand-sewn-masks

 

 

Possibly good news whether for USA or Germany or wherever: 

 

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11 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

On the flip side it would mean all the world health organisation emphasis on hand washing instead of mask wearing was just plain wrong.  Which is kind of depressing because they’ve been pushing it hard for six weeks or so.

But wouldn’t the droplets from coughs and sneezes land on your hands which people promptly put to their face?  I think there is a difference between hands and general surfaces/packages sitting on a truck for hours being the main means of transmission.  Also, we are learning more about this new virus all the time so I don’t think the previous advice was wrong, but we have have learned more so they are adding recommendations rather than changing.

Edited by Mom2mthj
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5 hours ago, lewelma said:

Not how bubbles actually work here. For the people in your bubble, you can be closer than 2 meters to, you can share a toilet and kitchen with them, and you don't have to wear protective gear around them. When you go work in an essential service, your employer is required to give you protective gear or have you 2 meters away from other employees/customers.  People you work with are not in your bubble.

The idea of the bubble is to keep *close* interactions in clearly-defined separate units and to not allow them to overlap.  This is the core feature of our lockdown.

 

The way I see it, shared bathrooms, shared equipment and even shared paperwork could be weak spots. So at work folks can’t relax like at home. Otherwise sounds like a good plan, for jobs that can be done without contact. 

 

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I found this map really interesting in that it shows as countries start to see more cases and are in the midst of their surge, they shut down exports to preserve as much as possible. Its human nature. As the plane is going down, you can’t save your child without first putting the mask on yourself. 
 

https://www.marketplace.org/2020/03/30/countries-race-to-limit-ban-exports-of-masks-ventilators-other-gear/

9C6BA365-8DD4-48B9-97CC-36F99E5605B6.jpeg

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2 hours ago, Pen said:

I am skeptical of that Mail article because:

https://www.thailandmedical.news/news/singapore-coronavirus-study-shows-that-virus-lingers-in-rooms-and-toilets

and the Princeton and several other combined entities study about virus time remaining viable on surfaces

Just because there is viable virus on surfaces doesn't mean that it's a major route of transmission.  The virus has to get from the surface into a place in your respiratory tract where it can set up shop in order to infect you.  Since viruses don't leap off of surfaces, you must do this yourself.  And by "doing this yourself," I mean that you have to stick it into your nose, eye, or mouth.  Not just "touch your face," but really get it into an entry point to the respiratory tract.  

Virus floating around in the air--now *that's* where the action is.

Edited by EKS
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🙂 @Pen Oregon

https://www.straitstimes.com/world/united-states/104-year-old-american-is-worlds-oldest-coronavirus-survivor

“NEW YORK - An American who survived World War II and the Spanish Flu pandemic is now the world's oldest coronavirus survivor after a miraculous recovery.

Mr Bill Lapschies, 104, displayed symptoms associated with the virus on March 5 and was quickly put into isolation at the Edward C. Allworth Veterans' Home in Lebanon, Oregon, where he resides.

Mr Lapschies was one of the first two residents at the home to test positive for the virus. The other victim, a man in his 90s, has since died, reported The Daily Mail.

...

Mr Lapschies became symptomatic around the same time Oregon recorded its first Covid-19 case in nearly Marion County.

He had a 'moderate' case of coronavirus according to Dr Rob Richardson, his physician. However, he did not develop any serious breathing problems.

Dr Richardson said that Mr Lapschies would likely have been transferred to a hospital if he had not been residing at the veterans' home.

...

Two nurses in contact with Mr Lapchies and the other resident who was first infected and later died had shown the same symptoms.

Both nurses were told to get tested by the home, but were turned away with 'mild' symptoms and continued to work for a week before they both tested positive.

Mr Lapchies celebrated his 104th birthday with his family on Wednesday (April 1), 25 days since he first displayed Covid-19 symptoms.

...

Other elderly people have also beaten Covid-19.

Ms Zhang Guangfen, a 103-year-old grandmother in China, recovered after six days of treatment in Wuhan. She is believed to be the oldest surviving coronavirus patient in China.

A 103-year-old woman in Iran also recovered after being hospitalised for a week.

In Genoa, Italy, Ms Italica Grondona, 102, was nicknamed 'Highlander' - in homage to the fictional immortal character - after she recovered following a 20-day stay in hospital.

In South Korea, the oldest survivor is a 96-year-old woman from Cheongdo County.”

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15 minutes ago, Plum said:

I found this map really interesting in that it shows as countries start to see more cases and are in the midst of their surge, they shut down exports to preserve as much as possible. Its human nature. As the plane is going down, you can’t save your child without first putting the mask on yourself. 
 

https://www.marketplace.org/2020/03/30/countries-race-to-limit-ban-exports-of-masks-ventilators-other-gear/

9C6BA365-8DD4-48B9-97CC-36F99E5605B6.jpeg

Except this may be more akin to the situation where there’s only one oxygen mask and you’re deciding who gets it.  Not a good place to be globally.  

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4 minutes ago, Arctic Mama said:

Food for thought on the speed of the US response. I don’t always agree with Brit Hume, but he is someone I always stop and listen to nonetheless.

https://disrn.com/news/fauci-on-january-21-coronavirus-not-a-major-threat--not-something-citizens-of-us-should-be-worried-about

BF63ADE0-5107-4C4A-9607-85460DDB29FD.thumb.jpeg.1d48f9947c993497d8a3abafb0f0798a.jpeg
That was said January 24th.

There is a difference between the average Joe being worried about a thing and a government preparing for a thing.

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1 hour ago, regentrude said:

It is exactly like snatching the toilet paper from another customer who is waiting in line at the checkout (and handing the cashier an extra ten bucks so they let you cut in line). It's exactly the kind of behavior we would find despicable from another person.
The mask shipment ordered for Berlin was on the airport to be flown over when they swooped in and took it.

FWIW, Germany has more cases per capita than the US (1100 vs 840). So nope, no justification on that count either.

Germany isn't innocent of the same thing they are criticizing. They have blocked more than one shipment going through their country in route to another country (although not purchased from a German company). One example that gives a summary: https://www.thelocal.com/20200312/mask-hysteria

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20 minutes ago, HeighHo said:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/04/world/europe/germany-coronavirus-death-rate.html   you might find this interesting.  Could it be that the customer already has a stocked closet, as well as less projected need in the near term, so could afford to give up a few rolls from the next delivery cart? 

There is no well stocked closet, and the implication makes me really upset because it hits close to home. My sister is a doctor in Germany at a major university hospital. For several weeks now, she has been going into the OR with a simple cloth mask she has to take home each night and launder and boil to sterilize. That is all they have.  

While Germany may have a lower death rate than other countries, they absolutely have a shortage of protective equipment.

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1 hour ago, Starr said:

Have you looked at me lately? haha Just kidding, it seems like a bad idea.

 

Yes. And so does me seriously thinking about a DIY pixie cut. 😁

It’s a no-win on the coiffure front! People are having fun, though. My teen’s friends are all experimenting - girls with various colors, boys flat out shaving their heads. Beats roaming the street in virulent packs. 

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58 minutes ago, Pen said:

Is Germany out of PPE for health workers and asking the public to make masks for health workers?  If so, then I agree that Germany is equally in need.  

As I wrote in another post just now:

my sister is a doctor in a major university hospital in Germany (so no small rural hospital). All she has had for weeks now to wear into the OR is one simple cloth mask she has to take home every night after her shift, and wash and boil or steam iron to sterilize it, so she can wear this mask again the next day. 
A cloth mask that is soaked after a couple of hours  (which is normally a complete no-no), but she has to wear all day.

They do not have enough paper towels in the scrub room for doctors and nurses to dry their hands.

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Government PPE snatching is going on in many countries, not just US or Germany. As much as this is going on between countries, I'm wondering what the overall outcome will be as far as international relations.

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Abbott Labs has shipped almost 200,000 of their 5 min rapid tests to 21 states by the end of the day yesterday.

APR 3 2020

We began distributing our rapid point-of-care COVID-19 tests for our ID NOW system on Tuesday, March 31. By the end of today we will have shipped more than 190,000 rapid tests to customers in 21 states. We're producing 50,000 tests every day now and we'll continue to ship daily to more customers in more places.

https://www.abbott.com/corpnewsroom/product-and-innovation/an-update-on-abbotts-work-on-COVID-19-testing.html

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1 hour ago, regentrude said:

It is exactly like snatching the toilet paper from another customer who is waiting in line at the checkout (and handing the cashier an extra ten bucks so they let you cut in line). It's exactly the kind of behavior we would find despicable from another person.
The mask shipment ordered for Berlin was on the airport to be flown over when they swooped in and took it.

FWIW, Germany has more cases per capita than the US (1100 vs 840). So nope, no justification on that count either.

 

So it’s actually more like swiping toilet paper from the cart of someone with IBS. 

Orders in process should have been let go. In-process and future production could have been restricted to US use. Would have been much easier to do this nicely a month or more ago. 

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As a constitutionalist & a big proponent of privacy, the actions taken by the federal government and the use of tech data to fight the spread of COVID-19 sadden and worry me. Yet, they offer hope that less people will be infected, sicken, and die.

The governor of my state (Nebraska) just finally announced state-wide directed health measures (his version of a lockdown). He's been phasing them in by region/county from the bigger population centers and harder hit regions for the last two weeks or so while asking the whole state to observe physical distancing & voluntary shutdown of non-essential businesses. In a reminder of what those instructions are, he shared this about the actions of the people of the state over the last two weeks as collected by Google (using phone location data, I assume).

These numbers don't really make sense (24% decrease in hours at work but only a 8% increase in time in your neighborhood?). I guess the park info explains it? The local mayor just closed down all playgrounds & public parks in my tiny rural town, but did leave the walking trails open.

My state has done very limited testing so far. We have a lot of travel through our state but are mostly rural. Our biggest population center is barely a million people, so lots of room to spread out. Our peak will likely be shifted later than other areas.

Quote

There has been a 34% decline in visits to retailers and restaurants, an 18% decline in visits to transit stations, and a 24% decrease in hours spent in the workplace.

Meanwhile, there has been an 8% increase in hours spent in residential areas.  This indicates that people are spending more time at home.

There has been a 109% increase in visits to parks.

Edited by RootAnn
Wonky quote format ...
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27 minutes ago, Arctic Mama said:

When that is the message, however, and then citizens are being castigated for being confused on the severity or significance of the threat, that’s where I take issue.  

Except that wasn't the point of the article you linked.

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27 minutes ago, regentrude said:

As I wrote in another post just now:

my sister is a doctor in a major university hospital in Germany (so no small rural hospital). All she has had for weeks now to wear into the OR is one simple cloth mask she has to take home every night after her shift, and wash and boil or steam iron to sterilize it, so she can wear this mask again the next day. 
A cloth mask that is soaked after a couple of hours  (which is normally a complete no-no), but she has to wear all day.

They do not have enough paper towels in the scrub room for doctors and nurses to dry their hands.

 

All around bad.   Tragic. 

My sister and bil are surgeons in USA (big city hospital, but not teaching center) and don’t have adequate equipment either . 

However, they have so far been a little luckier that almost everything they normally do has been shut down completely. (Not so good for the patients.)  And my sister’s area of expertise tends not to be needed if everyone is staying home and not needing trauma repairs.  So they are mostly at home with their little kids, and hoping the children don’t end up orphans.  

 

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14 minutes ago, square_25 said:

That would be interesting. Probably largely automated, I would guess? I don't know a ton about this. This would probably make things more expensive, yes? 

Maybe as “expensive” as when I was a kid in the 70s/80s before my country of origin let a lot more foreign workers into factories to lower cost of production. While reducing labor cost is one factor, the countries holding the raw materials are still at an advantage manufacturing wise.
My neighbors who were my parent’s age went from getting a low wage at manufacturing plants to a much lower wage at fast foods, and the retail price didn’t go down with lower cost, company profits went up. 

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3 minutes ago, Pen said:

All around bad.   Tragic. 

My sister and bil are surgeons in USA (big city hospital, but not teaching center) and don’t have adequate equipment either . 

However, they have so far been a little luckier that almost everything they normally do has been shut down completely. (Not so good for the patients.)  And my sister’s area of expertise tends not to be needed if everyone is staying home and not needing trauma repairs.  So they are mostly at home with their little kids, and hoping the children don’t end up orphans.  

My sister is an anethesiologist, so she is needed for any kind of surgery and would be needed in the ICU when they have to put patients on ventilators. She has been lucky so far because she can still perform "normal" surgeries (while all elective surgeries are canceled, cancer or appendixes don't care about the stay at home order)  and it's not yet all-hands-on-deck in the ICU.

Edited by regentrude
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5 minutes ago, square_25 said:

It's not an about face. It's called "learning about the problem," which is a big part of science. You can't overreact to every single virus coming out of China, or our country would be at a permanent standstill. You learn more information, you cope, you adjust. The problem with the US response was that it didn't act on information known in any kind of reasonable way. We had all of February to prepare. 

Here's an interview from back in January: 

https://www.voanews.com/episode/china-coronavirus-outbreak-4172351

He literally says "Right now, the risk is low, but it could change if we get human to human transmission, so we have to take it very seriously." He also says it could turn into a pandemic. 

 

I think If we had ordered a stop to all overseas shipments in February when we appeared to have almost no cases while other countries were already having trouble, that too would have been strongly criticized no doubt.  Instead of an analogy to theft of TP it would have been analogized to hoarding unneeded TP. 

 

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3 minutes ago, Arctic Mama said:

Remember the caterwauling about closing down travel?  Yeah.

 

And also if DPA had been invoked before people saw USA cases in 100,000 range and started clamoring for it, I think that would have created huge fears of government tyranny, a belief that something most Americans still seemed to regard as a mild unimportant flu like illness, was being used as an excuse for wrongful government action.

I expect in my blue state area there would have been many protest marches at close quarters causing even worse early viral spread. 

 

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7 minutes ago, square_25 said:

OK, maybe early March would have been fine for that. Obviously there are trade-offs here. 

But I think getting an idea of how big the stockpile is and starting to ramp up PPE production (which, at that point, may have simply involved giving big contracts to companies voluntarily) is a no-brainer. 

 

Sure.  Lots of things might have been much better if only ___ had been done ___.   (Probably.  Though actually we don’t know for certain ever what would have happened if some different choices had been made at past moments.) 

What did you think in early March? Still were going on play dates or similar right? 

Whatever happened in early March that cannone changed now. 

We are now at this moment.  But you (and all the pundits and all of us) now have the luxury of 20-20 hindsight.   And it is way easier even now to argue about the past than to make a good decision for this moment. Especially a good decision in bad circumstances. 

 

Btw, I know it is largely rhetorical, but since rhetoric can start to be believed by one’s own mind, I don’t believe your  7year old can actually organize this situation better than the powers that be are managing, extremely flawed job of it that they are doing, notwithstanding.   That’s an emotional feeling you have, but not even for the most brilliant well organized 7 year old would that be real. 

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11 minutes ago, square_25 said:

OK, but I do tend to talk about what needs to be done moving forward. Some of the things I'm mentioning were things I was talking about before they happened. 

Specifically, I want them to invoke the DPA to mass-produce PPE like now.

 

They are. 

 

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1 hour ago, square_25 said:

That would be interesting. Probably largely automated, I would guess? I don't know a ton about this. This would probably make things more expensive, yes? 

“In 2011, after the H1N1 pandemic ended, we had to lay off 150 people,” he recalls. “One hundred fifty people that saved a lot of hospitals from closing their doors were rewarded by losing their jobs. And that's not going to happen again.”

Full article (there was another similar one I couldn't find that said that the masks were about 5x more expensive to make in the US than in China.)

ETA: It also talks about them ramping up production, although the other more recent article I couldn't find talks about it more.

https://www.wired.com/story/surreal-frenzy-inside-us-biggest-mask-maker/

Edited by ElizabethB
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1 hour ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Except this may be more akin to the situation where there’s only one oxygen mask and you’re deciding who gets it.  Not a good place to be globally.  

There is nothing about where we are globally that could be called a “good place”.   There will be ruffled feathers and I think think is a good example of why closer attention should be paid to where important items are being produced.  I hope that lesson won’t be forgotten once the crisis has passed.  I don’t know all the details of the shipment to Germany, but it may be that they were not that company’s to sell to that buyer when the deal was made.  Things to be thankful for...that I am not the one negotiating all these deals.  I can barely keep my house clean without making people mad.

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For anyone interested, in accordance with our governor's directives to expand our healthcare workforce, the California Board of Registered Nursing has agreed to temporarily decrease our direct patient care requirements from 75% to 50%, so we can use simulations/mannequins and move forward with our programs (and get others graduated). Hopefully, we will hear something from our state nursing director this week and get moving again on the clinical portion of our courses soon. Most other states have already moved to do similarly (California being a hold out).

As I mentioned a few days ago, our governor also created the California Health Corps to recruit health professionals (including nursing students) to assist with the surge of patients. I nervously filled out the application and am waiting to be contacted to see what, if anything, I am able to do. Depending on where they are in school, nursing students will be able to work as either nursing assistants, LPNs, or as RNs on an emergency basis (without having to first pass the licensing exam). Many of the folks in my cohort also filled out apps, but we are not sure where they will place us because we did our skills check off for the RN required level of skills, but didn't yet complete our clinical hours for that level, so who knows. Now, I just need to get off my sorry butt and pass my didactic classes. So, no more procrastinating!! 🙂 

Edited by SeaConquest
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2 hours ago, Mom2mthj said:

But wouldn’t the droplets from coughs and sneezes land on your hands which people promptly put to their face?  I think there is a difference between hands and general surfaces/packages sitting on a truck for hours being the main means of transmission.  Also, we are learning more about this new virus all the time so I don’t think the previous advice was wrong, but we have have learned more so they are adding recommendations rather than changing.

I had assumed the advice was linked to touching stuff then touching your face.  Here in Aus there’s been advice about pushing elevator buttons with your knuckle etc.  

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I see a huge difference between saying, "We will no longer export this product," (after fulfilling already placed orders) and seizing shipments on the way to a place.  I also do not understand telling states to bid against each other and the federal government bidding against them.  I don't understand why the federal government needs PPE or ventilators if it's not for the people in states (or territories or DC).  Who is it for then???  I'm quite sure that square's 7 year old could organize this better than it is being organized.  

Also, it's important to note that the US seized this order after not even not only not invoking the Defense Production Act but not even PLACING ORDERS.  

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2 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Except this may be more akin to the situation where there’s only one oxygen mask and you’re deciding who gets it.  Not a good place to be globally.  

 

Alas. Yes. I agree. 

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