WWYD - neighbor tells his dog to get me

[summerreading]

I'm a Muslim woman who covers, so visibly Muslim. I walk around my neighborhood for exercise and to clear my head after a day of homeschooling.

One neighbor, an older man maybe 70s, gets a kick out of making me feel uncomfortable. When I walk by his side of the road his dog behind a fence barks. It stops if I ignore it which I do, it just barks at everyone. It's not the dog per se that bothers me. But this neighbor likes to say real loudly "Good girl! Go get her!" repeatedly. I know he is not doing this to other people. I see plenty of other people go by without being taunted. He likes to wait till I've crossed the road to be rude.

 

Today is about the third time he's told the dog to go get me and I called across the road that he is very rude, the only time I've said something. No one in my family has any history with this man. I try to ignore it but it annoys me so much. It's my neighborhood and I feel uncomfortable. I had my husband walk over with me while we decided if we should speak to him, but there was a realtor outside showing a nearby house and I couldn't bring myself to maybe ruin her sale. Dh said let's see if it happens again and we'll talk to him. I have other neighbors who are impolite to me when walking and then others who are super friendly.

 

WWYD? Am I overreacting to care? Would it be better to just write him off as a jerk and move on?

Thanks for reading, kind of need to vent.

 

 

 

 

[zoobie]

I wouldn't speak to someone who's threatening you. I'd consider calling the police if you think he's dangerous.

[summerreading]

I wouldn't speak to someone who's threatening you. I'd consider calling the police if you think he's dangerous.

 

I'm thinking you are right and feeling better about not saying anything else today.

[bibiche]

I'm so sorry to hear that is happening to you. What a horrid man. I've noticed a lot of horrid, hateful coming out of the woodwork lately. I'm hopeful that they will slouch away again soon. ((hugs))

 

And I agree, don't engage.

[poppy]

If it continues I would report it to the police. It's not just rude. Threatening someone with a dog is, technically, assault. Get it on record.

 

 

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[zoobie]

I forgot to add :grouphug:

 

What a horrid man. I'm sorry.

[OneStepAtATime]

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

 

How awful!  I agree, saying something to him might tick up the aggressive behaviors.  Do you think he might actually let the dog out to attack you?

[Guest]

I'm sorry. :grouphug: 

 

I wouldn't say anything. I would just find a different place to walk. People like that aren't worth risking a confrontation with. You never know with someone like that. 

[Anne in CA]

I would consider getting it on film so that if this escalates in any manner it would not be your word against his. I used to have several routes that I walked my dog and some were not as good as others because of the behavior of the occupants of the houses, so I do think it's reasonable to simply change your route, but I would get his behavior on film if you decide to keep walking that way, because he is unlikely to be able to change. He's probably been a jerk his whole life and he might be unstable or violent if confronted, so  I would have a record if you keep walking that way.

[TranquilMind]

If he is speaking to you, I would probably walk with someone and let the police know.  That's harassment. 

[gardenmom5]

this isn't rude, it's threatening.  he's encouraging his dog to bark and chase after you.  I would start carrying bear spray.  I would also consider reporting him-  he is *encouraging* his dog to behave in a threatening manner.  you could try filming him. . . . (some people will back down)

 

is the fence secure?  one day, it might not be.  (not saying he'd deliberately do something, but dogs do like to dig under fences.  especially if there's something they want on the other side.)

[JoJosMom]

If it continues I would report it to the police. It's not just rude. Threatening someone with a dog is, technically, assault. Get it on record.

 

 

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The dog is in a fenced yard so, no, it's not.

 

I agree that the man is rude, but calling the police because someone is rude is wasting their time and yours.  The police are not social workers or mediators; they are law enforcement officers.  Unless the man is breaking the law, there is nothing they can do.  They may (or may not-depending upon the availability of officers in your area) be willing to speak with the man, but they are not going to make empty threats. All you will likely do is empower the neighbor.

[Katy]

I would call the police, every time.  Because if his behavior escalates, or if you are a victim of some sort of crime, they'll start with him.  Technically what he's doing might already be illegal.  Or it might be in a gray area.  It would be best to find out.

 

And also, you need to find out what your rights are when it comes to protecting yourself.  In some areas, dogs are treated like family, but in most, you can kill a dog for acting threatening, and the worst than can happen is having to pay the cost to adopt a dog out of the cheapest humane society in the area - not the cost of a fancy breed.  Not that I would encourage escalating the situation in any way whatsoever.   I just find it helpful to know what the law is so you are confident you'll be in the right, whatever happens.

[alisoncooks]

It may not be assault, but is it harassment?  I wouldn't go near this nut-case, and I would call the police non-emergency line and ask what your options are.

[JoJosMom]

If he is speaking to you, I would probably walk with someone and let the police know.  That's harassment. 

 

Again, you need to be more precise.  What crime do you think this man is committing?  "Harassment" is not a crime I've ever heard of.  Under some, very specific circumstances threats may rise to the level of criminality but, believe me, it's hard to prove.  An annoying dog behind a fence is very likely not going to rise to the level of criminal behavior.  It's very easy to say "call the police," but it's not realistic to expect them to be able to solve the problem.  As far as I know, being an a**hole is not a crime.  Engaging the man is just likely to encourage the behavior. 

 

ETA:  FWIW, I agree that it may not be a bad idea to film the conduct (assuming that you don't think it might trigger something worse.)  Also, carrying a large, heavy walking stick and/or pepper spry (if it's legal where you live) would not be a bad idea.

Edited October 5, 2016 by JoJosMom

[Katy]

It may not be assault, but is it harassment?  I wouldn't go near this nut-case, and I would call the police non-emergency line and ask what your options are.

 

Yes, this.  Non-emergency line.  Chances are if you live in a safe neighborhood and there wasn't a huge car accident, and there's not a mid-month rush to issue more traffic tickets, they'll send an officer over to talk to you.

[bettyandbob]

What size dog?

Is it clear the fence is secure?

 

The dog could get out, even if this awful neighbor does not intend that to happen.

 

I would go to the police.

[StephanieZ]

I would video tape the encounter(s). I'd call the police and make a report of his threats/harassment/behavior. Show them the video(s). If you don't feel super scared right now, I'd go ahead and walk there a few times to get a couple videos before making the report . . . just so things are super clear from the get go. 

 

Since he is elderly, it is certainly possible he has dementia. Or he is just a crazy horrible person. Or both. I'd DEFINITELY involve the police. If you know any of this man's children, you could speak with them first, but only if you feel very comfortable doing so (and take your spouse or a friend along with you whenever you talk to anyone). In ANY event, he needs intervention from either Adult Protective Services (to get him help) or police (to get YOU help!)

 

Meanwhile, keep your phone out with the video camera at the ready and definitely carry pepper spray (small and portable and likely effective) or bear spray (bigger can, more potent, more certainly effective) or a can of hornet/bee spray (cheap, easily available, certainly a strong deterrent!) until the issue is resolved. Just in case he goes nuts and lets the dog OUT and he does come after you (or worse, the man does).

 

I'm so sorry this is happening to you.

 

If it's any comfort, I know people who have had similar neighborhood crazy behavior aimed at them -- even though they lived in a fancy neighborhood and were white/not covered/etc. Some people are just CRAZY. 

 

(((hugs)))

 

[AmandaVT]

If it continues I would report it to the police. It's not just rude. Threatening someone with a dog is, technically, assault. Get it on record.

 

 

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Yes, this. 

 

I'm so sorry! :-(  :grouphug:

[summerreading]

Thank you so much for all the replies! Reading them is helping me clear my head.

I always carry my phone so if it happens again I will film it, but I just decided to alter my route and not deal with him at all. He's unhinged so what sense could I talk into him?

I will look into if it's reportable.

[gardenmom5]

Again, you need to be more precise.  What crime do you think this man is committing?  "Harassment" is not a crime I've ever heard of.  Under some, very specific circumstances threats may rise to the level of criminality but, believe me, it's hard to prove.  An annoying dog behind a fence is very likely not going to rise to the level of criminal behavior.  It's very easy to say "call the police," but it's not realistic to expect them to be able to solve the problem.  As far as I know, being an a**hole is not a crime.  Engaging the man is just likely to encourage the behavior. 

 

ETA:  FWIW, I agree that it may not be a bad idea to film the conduct (assuming that you don't think it might trigger something worse.)  Also, carrying a large, heavy walking stick and/or pepper spry (if it's legal where you live) would not be a bad idea.

 

if the dog was just barking because dogs bark - I'd agree.

 

the man is *encouraging* the dog to bark specifically at, and chase after, her.  that little detail can change things.

[Ausmumof3]

I would call the police. In Australia stuff like that is an offence under the "companion animal act" and I imagine it's something similar there. I would probably try to get a video as proof depending on what the videoing/privacy laws etc are where you live

[AmandaVT]

Again, you need to be more precise.  What crime do you think this man is committing?  "Harassment" is not a crime I've ever heard of.  Under some, very specific circumstances threats may rise to the level of criminality but, believe me, it's hard to prove.  An annoying dog behind a fence is very likely not going to rise to the level of criminal behavior.  It's very easy to say "call the police," but it's not realistic to expect them to be able to solve the problem.  As far as I know, being an a**hole is not a crime.  Engaging the man is just likely to encourage the behavior. 

 

ETA:  FWIW, I agree that it may not be a bad idea to film the conduct (assuming that you don't think it might trigger something worse.)  Also, carrying a large, heavy walking stick and/or pepper spry (if it's legal where you live) would not be a bad idea.

 

Actually, in many states, harassment is a crime. I looked up my state for reference.

 

http://www.stopstreetharassment.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/SSH-KYR-Vermont.pdf

[JoJosMom]

if the dog was just barking because dogs bark - I'd agree.

 

the man is *encouraging* the dog to bark specifically at, and chase after, her.  that little detail can change things.

 

How?  Again, what crime do you think he is committing? 

 

 

OP, I am sorry this is happening to you.  You may want to call a non-emergency line and ask to have an officer call you (a dispatcher generally won't have the training to help you.)  HOWEVER, do not be surprised if they cannot help you.  The police are not social workers; they can only enforce the law.  If the man is not violating a specific law, then their options are limited.

[Farrar]

So my advice is....Avoid him, or ignore him, but please, just don't feed the troll.  That's what he is, no different than an online troll.

 

But... I think we don't know that. This implies that he's all bark and no bite. It's probably the case. But I think there's also a decent chance that he could escalate his behavior to actually siccing the dog on her or worse. Hate crimes against Muslims, especially Muslim women, are a real, scary thing in this country.

 

My heart goes out to the OP. I would document it in some form. Call the police and just ask if anything can be done. And then, yeah, ignore him the best you can and don't engage. But I wouldn't assume he or the dog were safe. I'd definitely carry something to defend yourself against the dog. Maybe mace? Someone mentioned bear spray.

[JoJosMom]

Actually, in many states, harassment is a crime. I looked up my state for reference.

 

http://www.stopstreetharassment.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/SSH-KYR-Vermont.pdf

 

Again, you need to look at the elements of the crime and what must be proved.  Many states (still) have statutes that prohibit "loud, offensive, or obscene language in public," but they have long since been limited in their application for constitutional reasons. 

[ChocolateReignRemix]

The dog is in a fenced yard so, no, it's not.

 

I agree that the man is rude, but calling the police because someone is rude is wasting their time and yours.  The police are not social workers or mediators; they are law enforcement officers.  Unless the man is breaking the law, there is nothing they can do.  They may (or may not-depending upon the availability of officers in your area) be willing to speak with the man, but they are not going to make empty threats. All you will likely do is empower the neighbor.

 

It can still be constituted as a threat.

[gardenmom5]

How?  Again, what crime do you think he is committing? 

 

 

OP, I am sorry this is happening to you.  You may want to call a non-emergency line and ask to have an officer call you (a dispatcher generally won't have the training to help you.)  HOWEVER, do not be surprised if they cannot help you.  The police are not social workers; they can only enforce the law.  If the man is not violating a specific law, then their options are limited.

 

 

right now - the only thing save his posterior from being hauled off is that fence.  

unless you are a lawyer specializing in this field in her state - you don't know there *isn't* a law in her state that addresses this situation.

[AmandaVT]

Again, you need to look at the elements of the crime and what must be proved.  Many states (still) have statutes that prohibit "loud, offensive, or obscene language in public," but they have long since been limited in their application for constitutional reasons. 

 

Telling his dog to "go get her" and encouraging the dog to act in a threatening manner would fall under this according to VT law as I'm reading it. 

 

"Many types of street harassment could qualify as disorderly conduct, such as harassers shouting at you, making lewd or sexually explicit comments, making abusive remarks like “fat cow,†or “ugly dyke,†or making threats to follow or assault someone. If someone is verbally harassing you in this way, you can report him/her. " 

 

Also, if he is doing it because of her religious clothing, it would also qualify as a hate crime.

 

 

Oh and stalking too:

 

"Stalking Title 13, Chapter 19, § 1062 Vermont’s stalking law prohibits intentionally harassing another person on at least two separate occasions with no legitimate purpose for the actions. The harassment may be done verbally or through writing, telephone or electronic means. If someone has verbally harassed you on multiple occasions (for example, the same person always harasses you at your bus stop or at the park in your neighborhood) and you fear s/he may touch you or harm you, you can report him/her. "

 

Regardless of whether he has made an actual, credible movement to harm her, people have a right to take a walk around their neighborhood without fearing for their safety.

[Spryte]

I'm so sorry. What a horrible human being.

[happi duck]

(hugs)

 

This makes me cry. People are so mean.

 

I have some dog anxiety due to a childhood incident and if this happened to me I would have a terrible time calming down.

 

You are handling this much better than I would.

 

More (hugs)

[poppy]

The dog is in a fenced yard so, no, it's not.

 

I agree that the man is rude, but calling the police because someone is rude is wasting their time and yours. The police are not social workers or mediators; they are law enforcement officers. Unless the man is breaking the law, there is nothing they can do. They may (or may not-depending upon the availability of officers in your area) be willing to speak with the man, but they are not going to make empty threats. All you will likely do is empower the neighbor.

.

In my state he is committing simple assault. It is a misdemeanor.

 

 

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[Xahm]

If you feel he's obnoxious, not dangerous, I'd ignore him but chat with some of your friendlier neighbors and find out what's up with him. Maybe you can find out if he does have some senility going on, and that might make it easier to give grace. Or if you find out he has let his dog out in the past, you'd know to take it as a threat instead of annoyance. Anyway, I'm a proponent of getting to know neighbors as much as possible.

[Scarlett]

Ugh.  So much good advice already, but I just wanted to say he is very horrible to do that to you.

 

I would film it, maybe call the police for advice, and also alter my route.

 

 

[KarenC]

What a jerk.  Can you walk a different route?  Or walk with someone?  Maybe if you are not alone he will shut up.

[mom2bee]

OP, I'm a Muslim woman who covers fully in public. I would NOT engage with that man. There is a guy who throws stuff (like fastfood cups) out of his vehicle at me every.single.time he see's me. (I walk. He drives. He slows down screams obscenities and throws stuff at me. then speeds away. It's annoying, to say the least)

 

In my case, there is no alternate route that I can take because I take the bus and walk home.

 

In YOUR case, if I had to walk past him, I would wear headphones, carry pepper spray and ignore the son of a b!tch. And his noisy dog too :p.

 

 

Now, if the dog EVER comes out and charges you, then hose Fido down with pepper spray. The DOG will learn to never harass you again.

Honestly, it's hurtful. I know, but you are going to invite more trouble and escalate the situation by yelling at him accross the street.

Don't yell back at this man.

Don't look at his dog.

Ignore both of them.

 

This guy, he's allowed to be a jerk and at least he's not actively siccing the dog on you. One semester I changed my schedule to avoid a guy who walks his large, unruly dog that lunges at me because according to the owner my "weird head wraps freak him (the dog) out." I would cross the (5 lanes of highway) and he would cross too so I know he was just being an a-hole and letting his dog harrass me.

 

Yeah....It's a part of the privilege and reality of living in the land of justice, freedom and equality "for all".

 

If

[Tanaqui]

Do not engage with him, and change your route if you can. If you can't, I definitely would record some sample incidents on your phone so that if it does escalate you have proof. I wouldn't call the cops on him unless I had reason to believe he was dangerous - but I'm not going to sit and judge you if you go that route either.

 

You're certainly not overreacting because you care about being treated with a bare minimum of civility!

[MistyMountain]

Wow that makes me sick that someone would do that. I am so sorry you are subjected to that cruel behavior by a sorry excuse for a human being. It really disturbs me that people treat someone like and judge just because they have a different religion. I have seen lots of messed up comments directed towards Muslims lately. It is not right.

Edited October 6, 2016 by MistyMountain

[mamaraby]

I agree that the man is rude, but calling the police because someone is rude is wasting their time and yours. The police are not social workers or mediators; they are law enforcement officers. Unless the man is breaking the law, there is nothing they can do. They may (or may not-depending upon the availability of officers in your area) be willing to speak with the man, but they are not going to make empty threats. All you will likely do is empower the neighbor.

I'm chuckling over here because dh is an LEO and what you're saying isn't his job is like 65% of his job. Dealing with people who threaten other people like the OP described, neighbors who can't get along, loud noise complaints, parents whose children are out of control, etc. After that it's traffic complaints followed by actual crimes. My dad was an LEO from 1970-2000s and it was even a big part of his job way back when. It's their job. Some officers are lazy and they have the same attitude as this poster. Some departments encourage this kind of laziness. Sometimes it's annoying when the same people call and can't fix their own problems. Sometimes it's frustrating when they can't do anything. But rest assured, it is in fact their job. It's the whole "protect and serve" thing.

 

Dh would tell you to report the neighbor. Call the non-emergency number. They will send an officer out to talk to you and the neighbor. Without additional proof will they arrest or ticket him? No. Could it end up being your word against his? Sure, but it's on record and any officer worth his salt will encourage the neighbor to knock it off if he's doing it. Might it take awhile for the officer to get back to you? Depends on the time/day. They'll go with the highest priority calls first. Rest assured, you aren't the first person to make such a call and you won't be the last. You aren't wasting anyone's time because it is in fact what we tax payers pay them for.

 

Besides, with all due respect to those who say it isn't the police officer's job to intervene here, not a single one of us is qualified to make that judgment from the information goven and on the internet. Local and state laws vary. The only one who can say it's not their job and they can't do anything is your local police department.

 

Oh, and if there's a next time it happens get it on tape. Sometimes just the realization that they're being filmed will cause people to behave better than if they think no one is watching.

Edited October 6, 2016 by mamaraby

[maize]

I would notify the police.

 

Might try to record him with my cell phone if he does it again. Just video as you walk past.

Edited October 6, 2016 by maize

[QueenCat]

I'm so sorry. I can't wrap my head around the fact that the " see something, say something" when we merely feel something is suspicious is being touted, and we all know it's aimed at Muslims, yet when this kind of sh!t happens it seems like there's no official help available.

 

And at the very least, if you live in a neighborhood with a HOA, I'd definitely file a complaint with the board .

 

This type of thing really isn't an HOA matter. If it's not covered in the bylaws, the HOA cannot intervene on the matter. Can't imagine this would be in any HOA's bylaws.

[Garga]

Oooooo!  Give me a can of pepper spray, too, and I'll walk beside you.  We'll go arm in arm.  What a jerk that man is.

 

I'd still file a report with the police, to have something on record.  

 

A friend of mine had a stalker.  He didn't "do" anything except follow her around Walmart.  She used to go there daily after dropping off her son at school.  He'd follow her from aisle to aisle and just look at her.  His looks got increasingly threatening--frowny faces.

 

She went to the police with the man's licence plate.  They called him in to the station and said, "We know you're stalking this woman.  If anything happens to her, you will be our prime suspect."  He denied it, of course, but he stopped going to Walmart every morning and following her around.

Edited October 6, 2016 by Garga

[Classic Mom]

Where are you living?  US?

 

If so, this is a threat of bodily harm.  You should definitely call the non emergency police number and speak with an officer.  They will advise you, and they will speak to the neighbor.  Also, typically after they speak to him, then they will contact you and let you know if:

1. They think he is harmless or not.

2. They have had previous complains or not.

3. What safety actions you should take.

 

Additionally, because he seems to be responding to your being Muslim and that seems to be provoking him, I would assume that increases the seriousness of possible charges under hate crimes.

 

Personally, I'd be afraid and alter my walk to avoid him.

 

Finally, I'm sorry you have to deal with this.  

[EMS83]

Mad.  This thread makes me mad.  I'm so sorry, to both moms who have dealt/are dealing with this.  

[City Mouse]

You can call the police and have them write a report. Even if the police decide there is no crime this time, there will be a public record of the incindent should anything else happen.

[mom2scouts]

How?  Again, what crime do you think he is committing? 

 

 

OP, I am sorry this is happening to you.  You may want to call a non-emergency line and ask to have an officer call you (a dispatcher generally won't have the training to help you.)  HOWEVER, do not be surprised if they cannot help you.  The police are not social workers; they can only enforce the law.  If the man is not violating a specific law, then their options are limited.

 

In my state, verbal harassment is a crime. "Insulting or taunting someone under circumstances likely to provoke a violent response" can get someone arrested for disorderly conduct.

[Lawana]

My alter ego would want to stop, turn to the man, and ask, "Are you encouraging your dog to attack me? Whatever for?" All with the most innocent look on my face. IRL my fear of confrontation would have me avoiding him at all costs.

 

I am so sorry this is happening to you. I hate that there are people in the world that would actually say and think such things.

[Barb_]

I agree. Call the police and file a report. I also really like lawana's approach. If he responds with ugly remarks you have more to report.

[mamiof5]

OP, I'm a Muslim woman who covers fully in public. I would NOT engage with that man. There is a guy who throws stuff (like fastfood cups) out of his vehicle at me every.single.time he see's me. (I walk. He drives. He slows down screams obscenities and throws stuff at me. then speeds away. It's annoying, to say the least)

 

In my case, there is no alternate route that I can take because I take the bus and walk home.

 

In YOUR case, if I had to walk past him, I would wear headphones, carry pepper spray and ignore the son of a b!tch. And his noisy dog too :p.

 

 

Now, if the dog EVER comes out and charges you, then hose Fido down with pepper spray. The DOG will learn to never harass you again.

Honestly, it's hurtful. I know, but you are going to invite more trouble and escalate the situation by yelling at him accross the street.

Don't yell back at this man.

Don't look at his dog.

Ignore both of them.

 

This guy, he's allowed to be a jerk and at least he's not actively siccing the dog on you. One semester I changed my schedule to avoid a guy who walks his large, unruly dog that lunges at me because according to the owner my "weird head wraps freak him (the dog) out." I would cross the (5 lanes of highway) and he would cross too so I know he was just being an a-hole and letting his dog harrass me.

 

Yeah....It's a part of the privilege and reality of living in the land of justice, freedom and equality "for all".

 

If

I'm so sorry! Have you tried to get the license plate?? This is messed up :(

[mamiof5]

Lots of wonderful advice already, but I just wanted to say I'm sorry. What a mean guy :(